Guild Wars 2

yeah, no end in sight …

hah after being invited and danced on I was just laughing in voip, thought it was appropriate to post it here because it was the highlight of my day on gw

not every day you get to kill a geared 80 on a 15 thief in white armor and weapons and get danced on dunno why anyone would be upset over that lol

felt pretty good tbh since I haven’t really played thief much… and yes it was a 1v1 fight all the way until your 5 buddies took me down but I’d understand why you’d want to save face

I was being serious about getting the low lvl tournament up.

lie to him? nah, it was a mistype. He had invited me so he def knew what lvl I was bud.

still funny though … all in good fun

we should totally start low lvl dueling since the actual wpvp is a little boring. Maybe arrange it for sunday on the plateau near mendon’s? have like a server tournament of lvl 30s and below with some prize money. It would make things more interesting and friendly imo.

If anyones interested in the tourny send me a mail.

Lol, would I have posted had he not invited me to his party just to talk kitten after the massive /dance emote? probably not, but thank you for coming to your friend’s defense… he’s still kitteny and he’s still bad.

Just thought it was funny that he believes in his mind that you guys are just that good that stomping an empty two servers somehow makes you better.

Now, I understand it’s not your fault that you’re stuck in this garbage match up… okay, I get it… but trying to talk smack to a lvl 15 who just downed you? pretty fail for any lvl 80.

This isn’t impressive.

rofl @ the sf ele I just downed in ET bl. You’re really going to invite me and tell me I’m bad after you buddies swarm me… I’m lvl 15 and you’re lvl 80 I think that’s a l2p issue.

But ty big pappi that was a great lesson in how not to play an ele.

you guys always make my lunch time roaming so fun

N you preach those ele skillz !

I love that idea. I would love to see all the players following the commander as blue dots and allow each of us to see each other. It would make things a lot easier for newbies / pubs.

similar to WoW raid system (also allowing the commander to see the health bars of everyone in his / her raid)

the ability to use * lol everyone gets one free typo hallpass – android phones are pretty unfriendly with auto correct

bumping the thread

insanemaniac.2456:

Ungood.3054:

SniffyCube.6107:

Just trying to keep the discussion going…It’s important that we try to find a solution, even if it seems like we’re being ignored atm… or are being ignored… can’t really tell

Pause and Ponder this,

They are using a very well developed and top notch system that is designed to build a individual profile for unique user and place them an ideal tier of skill to guess the outcome of several massive pugs.

If that does not scare you, it has not sunk in yet.

collectively, a server acts as a unique individual. youre missing the forest for the trees and assuming the rating applies at all to any of the trees. and you need to replace “skill” with “population” instead of even thinking a servers rating has anything whatsoever to do with “skill” from the massive population imbalances that have run rampant. so dont be scared, because the rating system is applicable. we just need more than 24 competitors (not happening), or for manual adjustments to take place when issues like 200 point rating gaps crop up.

Both good points!

I would like to commend you on using your edit option to edit your post after the fact to add an argument.

100% of people who eat potatoes die. See what I did there?

Kaineng was a snowball effect. The higher they went the more xfers they got, but I can understand how some people are allergic to context

Potatoes can’t be healthy if everyone dies who has ever eaten a potato!

Rob.7624:

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Rob.7624:

This isn’t like Kaineng, which was stuck there since the start. This is SF being put there after being tested.

Except Kaineng went up because of transfers… which is exactly what has happened with SF. We had a substantial amount of guilds transfer in from higher tiers before free transfers ended, the SF that you claim has been tested so well is entirely different than the one you encountered beforehand, most of those guilds actually left when we were on our decline.

I’m not saying we’re going to wipe any other tier, I just think you shouldn’t write us off that quickly because you played against us what 2-3 months ago now.

From what the above posts tell me. SF has had very few xfers.
We’ll see what happens in the future.

I’m just looking at the evidence.
And I doubt you’ve even a fraction of the numbers Kaineng have, with a score of 166k – 81 – 71.

When Kaineng was tier 3 it was still winning at 400k – 90k – 85k

Statistics bro.

Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses.

You’re taking your information from the few SF that believe they are winning because of how amazing they are. For every one of those players, there are about 5-10 SF posting here or in the other sections of the forums saying they outnumber us for whatever reason and should move because it’s not fun for them.

Don’t really want to edit this in for whoever has responded or read my last post, but for whatever reason, let’s not lose sight of why this thread was started. There’s a huge disparity atm, and sf needs to be moved instead of having to continue this grueling match up for the next month(s)… and we won’t really find out post xfer period post t8 population shift what your actual match up will be until it’s actually put into place which is impossible currently and why this thread was created in the first place. One step at a time regardless of your personal feelings, it’s all anecdotal and speculative at the minute without hard data post xfer period.

Fact: other servers are getting stomped on with no end in sight and we can’t test any of your theories until this is fixed… which it won’t be due to the skewed ratings.

I fought you guys while on DR and while visiting another server, but rob believe me when I tell you there are a lot of these guys (fairweather into wvw now or for whatever other reason). I don’t think the majority of them are good from what I’ve seen, but I think they can learn and have shown some big plays. I’d like to see the match up tbh because I think you might beat them but it would be close. First week we were here in the match up between ferg sf and et was great though for what it’s worth… For whatever reason (xfers on / off – more people hopping in, who knows) it’s been totally one sided since.

Best of luck in NSP.

silverfire.2547:

Rob.7624:

NSP is tier 6.
We rolled SF. We rolled them badly for weeks.

I keenly remember the taste of pavement and boots from having my head being stomped into the curb a couple weeks ago at the hands of NSP. Then again, when we were matched up against you guys, we had just lost quite a lot of players to transfers.

After that, we continued to shed WvW presence — I haven’t seen CL for months. The only incoming transfers since then that I’ve heard of were one or two smaller guilds coming in from SoR and a couple one-offs jumping ship from ET and FC.

Past that, any gains we’ve made as a server have come from CoSA’s ever-increasing WvW presence, day-to-day improvements in communication between commanders and small groups, and “original” SF players from day one beginning to work more closely together. I don’t see too many of the old repeat offender fair-weather only guilds on anymore; they’re either long gone or calling themselves PvX PvE guilds now.

Call it cautious optimism, but despite what you hear about the population disparity in T8, I’d like to believe that most of our recent gains have been in quality, not quantity.

Best joke ever. Ty. If there are no new players and you don’t outnumber us at all then I guess we’ve stumbled onto your super secret cloning project where your skill is so great that it gives us outmanned buff half the time on our own BL and camps us from 3 spawn exits in EB while spawncamping FC at the same time. This incredible skill and coordination has to be why you’re able to give us the out*manned* buff and have more coverage than us. I thank you for your brilliant insight into our server’s issues.

Just trying to keep the discussion going…It’s important that we try to find a solution, even if it seems like we’re being ignored atm… or are being ignored… can’t really tell
@ghostbaron … I fart in your general direction

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/In-my-opinion-t8-rankings-need-more-attention/page/4#post1426602

Lots of good ideas for changes in the math here. I encourage you guys to pull some off that those posts (I would copy paste them all but there’s too many)

Thanks cantur, it’s a tough fight but I know I see a few guilds out there beside ours day in and day out. It’s the small victories. Keep it up FC that’s pretty awesome.

I think most of us wanted something more… maybe a “we’re looking into it” what this change told me was that they’ve read this post and believe it’s only in my opinion, and maybe only affects t8… I’m probably just paranoid though at this point.

their rating is going down atm so several weeks more of this hellhole match up

lol someone’s in need of some attention guys let’s not feed the troll so he dies of starvation

Jesse.4631:

I saw a Anet player on wvw Saturday, maybe a sign that they are looking into our problem. Hope i don’t jinx it.

I hope so

filthyrat, haven’t we killed you enough already? lol… and now you’re taking a play out of our book after we had killed you each of those times we had shot the fireworks from metrica province.

I guess seeing those enough made you want to get your own big boy fireworks. Imitation is the ultimate form of flattery ty!

Lot of good points from all sides tbh, and a lot of good pros and cons. Wish I could +10 almost all these points

oZii.2864:

Catisa.6507:

Okay so with no math you end up with things like:

T8: SF moves up and HoD moves down, do you really thing HoD won’t kitten slap the other two the same as SF has been doing?

T6: NSP drops and DH moves up, Do you somehow think NSP is going to beat GoM and HoD by less then DH has been doing? No in all likelihood, NSP will make T7 even more lopsided then it was. Compound this with a T8 moving to T7 and you essentially have a match up of 1 t6, 1 t7 and 1 t8 … that’s a disaster of a match up.

The problem isn’t the ranking system, its population/coverage differences. Anet really should have had separate WvW servers and strictly maintained population balances between then, then maybe we wouldn’t have big differences between tiers and some tiers with a good match but one that’s stale and old (personally I am sick of both enemy servers I have been playing again but I know any change and the match up will only be worse, so you end up with a choice, new faces or better match up).

Pretty much this I don’t know why the people of T8 seem to think just playing another server would make it fun and add variety. It will add variety thats for sure and the people of T8 would maybe have fun fighting someone different for 3 days then it would suck.

Any server that experienced kainengs rise to T2 I doubt would call it fun. Thats a different server right that all the tiers between 3-7 never faced I doubt any one really found that fun even if it was only for 1 week.

It sounds like it would be fun until you face it after reset weekend it sucks. The difference between a T2 server and T3 is night and day ask people of Fort Aspenwood how their recent visit to T2 was. My server was in Tier 4 for a while before we dropped and Crystal Desert for whatever reason dropped down to Tier 4 not a fun week at all.

Tighten up the rating a bit more but otherwise I think it is better than the proposed system from the OP.

Yes because beating both servers by their scores added together +30,000 pts is fun and exciting and should lower their ranking. Get a clue before you post. Point is, bad or good, the math is broken if someone can beat another server group by that much and have their elo lowered. That’s the root of the problem, no matter how well you do, you’re stuck in t8… and although we might not know if HOD can absolutely and utterly crush us like everyone thinks, have you ever thought that you might have no clue what’s going on because you don’t play this tier or t7… like some of us who are posting… let’s say… this msg here

also, not saying I agree with the person posting, but any and all creative ideas are welcome at this point… this is frustrating everyone involved

You know it’s bad when your enemy comes on and makes a thread about how broken the system is.

Thanks queensdale, everything helps… this is truly getting annoying because we literally CAN’T get ANYONE new into wvw, they come in and get stomped so then they leave and think twice about coming back in (we’re already floating between an outmanned buff on most bl like today and today was a GOOD day). It’s also a shame because these new players are the ones that buy the game and head to the least populated servers and this totally screws that aspect of the game. The more and longer the blowout goes on the less ppl pvp and the more we’re outnumbered… the thing is feeding upon itself at this point.

This is honestly killing wvw for us lol, red response ftw? There is no way someone at anet hasn’t read this … it’s even more concerning that they haven’t responded with anything.

You’ve got some really loyal players to your game here guys, and there’s a lot of us (including a lot of first timers who enter wvw on one of our servers and have the experience ruined)… I don’t think throwing us under a bus is a constructive way to deal with the situation.

Elementalist Owner.7802:

Personally I never started corpse dancing/jumping/laughing/whatever until it started popping up as a problem on the forums. It happens to me all the time lol, really nothing to get upset about. As far as JP camping goes, I don’t do it but really why would we let you have free seige? It’s a war. Could you imagine if the French asked Germany for free weapons during World War II? It would be baffling.

And zerging annoys you? Well tough. I don’t care if it’s honorable or not, if it works and it isn’t against GW2 rules I will use it. Believe it or not, zerging is a tactic. Zerging is available to all servers, not just SF. Connecting back to the WWII reference, imagine if the French also asked Germany to stop fighting in mass because it was dishonorable, or it made them seem like “distasteful” people.

I will stress again that this is a war. No matter what tactic we need to use, red = dead. We are enemies, whether you like it or not. If you want a place where people are always polite, I’m sure you’ll love PvE.

But all of this aside, I’m proud to say that the waypoint at ET keep I ordered has been built, woo transportation. Let’s play a game… find the blue or red.

It’s strange to me that letting pubs have free siege when you outnumber us 3:1 is so threatening. Guess we must be terrifying to you guys at SF…

This is actually kind of a refreshing perspective on wvw from a newer player. Always appreciate reading different points of view from someone who picks up the game.

Also, stories like this can give insight into what newer players want when they head into different zones.

insanemaniac.2456:

really anything is preferable to the current…

+1

volatility doesn’t have to be a bad thing, but I agree some things might need reworking if they go to a green +1 red -1

WZ is always welcome to join ET and form an alliance with your friends at KWBH

Why can’t we just stay out of each others’ lanes? These cross server treaties never work because there will always be one or two commanders who attack the other server’s towers/ keeps… or something gets ninjad then everyone gets on here saying that “so and so backstabbed me or broke the alliance” then that creates strong feelings of animosity which then leads to retaliation. Sometimes the guild goes into ferg’s crossing looking for wz or yarr because its nice fighting quality players closer to your own numbers. We also occasionally train / do karma trains there. Will we stop attacking ferg completely? No. Will we go out of our way to attack them? No. Will we sometimes hit SF from the back while they’re attacking ferg’s keeps / towers… yes, we have before and will again because I never miss an opportunity to get the jump on the hordes of green.

oZii.2864:

Anyway continue to go victim route or whatever your aim is here I am by no means an expert on the matchup algorithm.

Your basically arguing that your a team in the NCAA tournament and because you felt your team played hard but the other guys are a bit better and won you deserve to advance because of effort.

Anyone with half a brain can look at your servers matchup history and tell you that you are suppose to be at the bottom tier.

Yeah, you’re not a troll at all.

Anyway, a lot of people have thrown around a lot of good ideas on how to fix this issue.

Manual adjustments (moving servers up or down)
Reset the elo to just under t7 every once in a while for tier 8

Try to respect our situation… when you see individuals from all three of the servers on here saying that there is a problem with the tier, then there is probably a problem with the tier. We’ve given plenty of background and more people from our servers are chiming in everyday. Honestly, oz, you aren’t from here, you haven’t played our tier, and you have no idea what you’re talking about as a result. I am trying to see why or how you have any first hand knowledge of the situation and I fail to.

Once again ozii, respect our thread and take the trolling elsewhere because, with all due respect, you really don’t have a clue about the current match up.

There is a vocal minority of SF who think that the match up is fair right now and they are winning due to some kind of miraculous ability to follow a blue dot en masse. Mostly pvers coming out of the woodwork, but I had mistaken you for one of them!

to make amends I say we have a tonic race through EB!

your posts are utterly laughable

beating a pair of servers due to numbers advantage for over a month with over double our score and not moving up so you continue that match repeatedly …isn’t broken?

Gisei.5749:

Ungood.3054:

Not to be rude, but I can’t want for a real opponent that will be able to actually challenge us without just mindlessly steamrolling us.

Then you have a long wait ahead of you. ET is after all, the weakest server WvW wise. Even if SF moves up a Tier, our replacement will likely be too strong for T8.

As of Feb 1st, SF’s rating was in the 800s, and ET’s in the 600s. Henge of Denravi, just above SF, has a rating of 1k+. If we somehow replace them in T7, they will likely steam roll ET and FC just as SF does.

I believe it would be better to hope for improvements in ET, rather than hoping a weak server drops to T8.

“weak” server would imply you’re somehow better than either fc or et which is a far cry from the truth, but numbers are what wins games so if you call mindlessly charging at objectives in a larger group then yes, you are stronger than us.

We have a person from HOD who just joined our guild who regularly did wvw there. He claims they have nowhere close to the coverage you do. I don’t have the population stats for wvw so it’s purely anecdotal. You guys have a lot of people, a few of you have admitted it. You lack organization by and large minus a few people from Cosa and WWGD (I think that’s the tag idk it’s hard to pick them out of the group). It’s been fun playing with you, and I hope your numbers will take you to a tier where you belong because a lot of you need to step in line with those guilds and become more organized. As far as I am concerned, I have been on Kaineng, DR and ET (while it was third place) so I am no stranger to the higher tiers or lower tiers. I can, with confidence, say that your population brings up a strong moment of déjà vu. Honestly, I feel like I’m back on DR when they were stomping kain.

Also, you should read up on how the ratings and elo work my friend. I feel you are grossly misinformed.

@manoa, If I misinterpreted your statement then forgive me. We have a few chest thumpers out there that really get annoying in the puzzle and on our thread.

@ ozii, once again a post by a player who has no idea what’s going on. Fantastic that you can look up mos millenium stats for after almost every major wvw guild ET, but when ET hit rock bottom t8 got a pretty good influx from christmas and a few guilds moved over. Anyone that’s actually played in our tier can tell you we can stand toe to toe with FC but, since you’re not here, and have never played here, and think you apparently know the state of wpvp here, I’ll enlighten you about SF

(but hey I’ll just go pretend to a surgeon after reading a surgery book)

large zergs and a lot of coverage, and now since we’re losing guilds which are leaving one at a time (same with FC) it’s getting much worse – why? because apparently beating someone for over double your score doesn’t move you up. So please justify it all you want after you come here and become more informed.

Also, new players to the game coming into WvW take one step in, get rushed by over 20-30 players, and leave. Do they come back? no. Is it fun for them? no.

We need to look at this tier situation. The math is most certainly not “fine as is.”

Those are just from the last match up… I’m sure I can find more if I look in the previous threads.

false statement manoa. I bet you are one of the people that just camps the EB jp when fc or et actually has a keep…also your statements seem to conflcit with about 4-5 other people on your own server (guild we commonly fight against and have shown that they are good players). Let me englighten you to what they’ve said. Also, never seen your guild tag before and I’m in wvw all the time.

It’s okay. It looks like we’re gonna be swapping places with HoD.

Hopefully we’ll stay competitive in that tier and that we won’t have grown complacent from weeks of numerical advantage.

I know that we’d been stashing siege away in preparation for having to face Kaineng, but giving us another 2-3 weeks to prepare for going up a tier doesn’t hurt

*

It might be fun for the guys on my server who favor zergballs, but for a small group player, having everyone focused on the last 2-3 hotspots suck.

Enemy and ally density is way too high when everyone is funneled into those remaining hotspots. Too many enemies draws the zerg, and too many allies marginalizes your ability to tag and earn badges. These past two weeks, I’ve mostly stuck to hitting borderland supply camps for commanders while a 10-20 man main zerg hits bigger objectives.

It’ll likely stay just as stale until we move tiers.

*

Mhh I believe anet doesn’t have too much to do with it, it was the free transfers, how can you expect Anet to keep track of those bandwagon guilds, with the free transfers we can be in the tier we really deserve, and have a 33/33/34 map, is not really fun to have everything or have nothing, we have been on both sides and we like when the enemy shows their strength, Eredon will go places, they are organized, and they don’t seem to quit, but also the last place seems to be affecting some guys negatively, no one deserves do be victim of a exploit, if you are gonna exploit to play and win WvW, leave… you don’t deserve to win, you don’t deserve to be in the same server that real players are trying to defend and you are staining their name.
Kaineng, we know we are not T1 material, but we are not really fighting for it, we will see if you guys are, best of luck.

*

As this week winds down to a close, I’d like to give a shout out to both our neighbors in FC and ET. The first two weeks of our matchup were the most fun I’ve had on WvW in quite a long time. I can’t speak for the other servers, but for the first time in a long time while things were still balanced, we had primetime queues on non-reset evenings. Free transfers may have turned the last two weeks into a curbstomp, but the blame for that rests squarely with ANet; had there never been free transfers, I do honestly believe none of use would have been in this tier.

Good luck to everyone in whatever your upcoming matchup may be.

*
Thanks for all SF comrades who participated, just wish there was more ET to make it a challenge

See you again after reset ET and FC, and as always, the best of luck to both of you!

you’re just mad you weren’t there for our guild costume race through SF borderlands

it was close with the koda coming in first followed by the branded scorpion and floating cube as a close third

stereoblind.4736:

Instead of /dance and /laugh everyone just needs to buy some fireworks from Metrica Province. They’re cheap, obnoxious and PRETTY. Also holy wow posting from an android phone is a PITA.

pita bread is delicious

ok troll moment over

Fixeon.5076:

Chuck Norris doesn’t use siege to break down gates either….. He just stares at them and they bust open out of fear.

yes!

btw this thread is in bad taste why not put it in our match thread instead?

reserve the mild smack talk and ss for in there :p

it’s not SF’s fault that they’re in this tier with us it’s the broken anet system… I’m sure they’d like to fight some actual people once in a while during offpeak

Jesse.4631:

Too the people replying “No matter what you’ll still remain in Tier 8” I think most of us in our servers would be fine with that. As long as the matches are fair, and ALL 3 of us deserve to be there, as it stands SF DOESN’T belong here. They’re a Tier 6 population at least, all we want is for Anet to make some adjustment to the math that’s keeping them here for so long, they’ve clearly demonstrated they’re superior in numbers, so why do they have to remain here so long?

I love you SF so don’t get the wrong idea.

P.S If your going to leave troll comments, don’t comment at all.

Totally agree with you! Most if not almost all hardcore wvw players on our 3 servers, winning one included, have come to realize that this is a lopsided match that is has / will last far too long. If you aren’t from our servers and are just here to troll, don’t post because you have no idea what’s going on.

Also, https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Anet-doesn-t-care-about-t8/first#post1402824 if enough of us complain about this hellhole rating system maybe they’ll change it. Can’t see how pvdoor can be fun for anyone, and SF I really don’t blame you. I have talked to a lot of people in wvw and EB at night and just wanted to say the system is flawed and hope you guys move up sooner than later.

I love all the posts by people who haven’t bothered to read any of what was posted before they just get on here and troll. I really wish they wouldn’t even say anything because they have no idea how the match is or whats going on. Even a few SF have gotten on here and explained how it isn’t fun for them anymore… and the guy who played TWO months ago… well I played on kaineng two to three months ago and it has changed since then… I wouldn’t even say anything about that server because I would have no idea what I would be talking about.

and for the guys just saying tier 8 has a low population compared to t7 I think detharos explained how they actually were toe to toe with SF until the free transfer period ended… please read what was posted before posting something that makes no sense in relation to the thread or has been addressed several times previously

I do not believe we have less coverage than t7 (as stated in the previous posts by someone on FC). We just need a way to adjust for the third server in this group who has a true t5 population. Honestly a lot of us were looking forward to fighting db and maguuma because it would mean maybe two weeks of blow outs instead of months. Even some SF players apparently posted on kaineng’s match up thread looking forward to fighting them. Would they have gotten beat? yes, but it beats the alternative.

Reported many from said guild today. I prefer that we keep this off the forums because it makes the whole server look bad for the few people that are cheating to win. Trust me, we’re reporting them.

completely untrue vodka, you should come here and see how competitive we really are and how hard we fight, the situation we’re placed in right now makes it impossible for us to do much

the open field fights and roaming are some of the best in the game and I’ve been on plenty of servers… just because we can’t field 2-50 man zergs on each map with queues doesn’t make us worse than you it just means our population coverage / pve players aren’t packed into wvw, also from weeks and weeks of blow outs with the same server beating us by more than double the other servers combined, a lot have gone into hibernation… anet needs to wake up and at least acknowledge there is a problem with t8