[TBT]
Èl Cid
AA was more fun than gw2 before they started making a cascade of mistakes that ultimately ruined the game
shadowbane was fun DAoC was good too
Gw2 is smoother / prettier mainly due to it being released later. I’m interested to see what CF / CU do in terms of mechanics and gameplay.
literally not taking anything away from you. 5 of the original members were part of my guild at one point . I know they’re good players and have improved since. Just saying you didn’t start from scratch and you’ve been selective. I mean, case in point, look where you went…
no need to go further into it. just 2c from some guy that doesn’t really play anymore. Don’t get so bent out of shape, if you think I’m wrong then it’s fine.
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Years ago, a list like this would be relevant, but now the experienced players have pooled into 1-3 guilds and that pool will probably become smaller with time.
Atm, imo, the best guilds are kek or borp and then when those guilds break apart, it’ll be whichever guild those same players have gone into. It used to be a huge list and a very spread out list when this game was actually alive, but at this point it’s the same names under a different guild.
Maybe those guilds will continue to stockpile the more experienced players and run 25 – 30 deep gvg veterans. Why not? You can’t fault people for playing with their friends. Everyone likes steamrolling. ..Maybe they’ll break apart into smaller guilds and try to train new people… who knows, but I don’t see the competitive scene reviving itself anytime soon. Not the way things are going, and it’s pretty hard to pick up pugs and try to build a core with them. Combine that with how badly everyone memes on guilds trying to build… not many make it.
Also, the “rest” of our guilds all have footage of us dumpstering each other at one point in time. It’s pretty hard to tell at this point who is the better guild. Maybe over the course of the year certain guilds happened to come out on top more often than not? Everyone here has had a kitten day or two. I’m not sure what the litmus test is, but if this is a purely open field guide then I know for a fact I’ve killed almost everyone on this list at one point or another and have been killed by most at least once. It’s pretty much impossible to get an objective view at this point.
All that being said, VII has always been fun fights. As have the rest of you. All we can really do now is go down with the ship as we get 1 new thing added to WvW every 4-6 months in the hopes that we all stay interested enough to keep playing.
TLDR: Same kitten different day.
jul… xxx Julian xxx, you got kicked 5 months ago. let it go.
Hey, I’m the leader of BoRP. I think you have a very unclear view of what kind of guild we are, what we’ve done, and who we are. In our roster we have about six people out of 28 that anybody would consider ‘old GvG veterans.’ Almost all of us are competitively-minded players from different parts of the game that came together with a positive attitude and a willingness to improve. We’ve trained from scratch about 90% of our current roster and continue to accept players from every part of the game that have a decent mechanical level and a good attitude. One of the best players in our guild came from TORK.
A competitive game mode needs people at a high level and people at a mid level. A lot of people have this misconception that every top guild needs to disband for there to be a viable scene; but the truth is that if that happens then there’s nobody to drive progression. The GvGs and open field fights BoRP had against KEK throughout HoT pushed both guild’s members as both players and theory crafters, leading to a much more refined meta in NA.
I’ve gotten pretty tired of uninformed people saying this repeatedly and have felt like it invalidates all the hard work my guild members have put in for the last year, so I apologize if my post comes off as aggressive.
I think he meant that he feels most top guilds didn’t start from complete fresh players but rather experienced players from retired guilds, moving to a same new guild and bringing those knowledge to only that new guild.
Read Veri’s post again my dude.
I did.
Veri do admit that his roster is not complete fresh players and of course, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t have any fresh players.
What Sniffy is trying to say that guilds that end up with a group of elite players, regardless how big or how small, just as long there is a group, it can help to guide all those future fresh players recruited, giving birth to a new top guild. Likewise, group of elite players tend to stay together thus the number of new top guild become limited due to limited spread of knowledge. It is not like complete fresh rosters can’t become new top guild, it just take way lot more efforts and time, they have to do more experiments due to lack of experiences elsewhere those with elite groups of players can afford to do less since they experimented it before and from experiences decided certain things won’t work.
The main point is Sniffy didn’t really demean and say anyone not putting any efforts, just the amount of efforts varies thus the number of top guild born is also limited due to the amount of efforts required also varies.
This is pretty much what I’m trying to say in a more eloquent way.
Veri, I have nothing against you, but you didn’t start from scratch. After certain guilds fell apart, I remember that you had a very specific list of players you wanted for your roster. People you knew from other guilds / groups … kind of your A team. I was there when you made BoRP. You guys put in a lot of work, and you’re a group that actually wants to help others, but it’s also a lot easier to build off of several veterans training a few new players at a time.
It’s like Donald Trump saying he only got a loan of a few million dollars my man.
I promise you if we switched spots and I drove Borp against the guild I used to drive, I’d win too. Or if we swapped a few good, key players the results would be the same. It boils down to a handful of players having a certain mentality anymore and those players gravitate towards certain guilds. While it’s much harder to grandfather newer players in when you don’t have the years of experience in a core. That’s it. No digs at anyone. It’s not like it matters. I quit this game 2 weeks ago just giving my 2c on a pointless forum post.
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Years ago, a list like this would be relevant, but now the experienced players have pooled into 1-3 guilds and that pool will probably become smaller with time.
Atm, imo, the best guilds are kek or borp and then when those guilds break apart, it’ll be whichever guild those same players have gone into. It used to be a huge list and a very spread out list when this game was actually alive, but at this point it’s the same names under a different guild.
Maybe those guilds will continue to stockpile the more experienced players and run 25 – 30 deep gvg veterans. Why not? You can’t fault people for playing with their friends. Everyone likes steamrolling. ..Maybe they’ll break apart into smaller guilds and try to train new people… who knows, but I don’t see the competitive scene reviving itself anytime soon. Not the way things are going, and it’s pretty hard to pick up pugs and try to build a core with them. Combine that with how badly everyone memes on guilds trying to build… not many make it.
Also, the “rest” of our guilds all have footage of us dumpstering each other at one point in time. It’s pretty hard to tell at this point who is the better guild. Maybe over the course of the year certain guilds happened to come out on top more often than not? Everyone here has had a kitten day or two. I’m not sure what the litmus test is, but if this is a purely open field guide then I know for a fact I’ve killed almost everyone on this list at one point or another and have been killed by most at least once. It’s pretty much impossible to get an objective view at this point.
All that being said, VII has always been fun fights. As have the rest of you. All we can really do now is go down with the ship as we get 1 new thing added to WvW every 4-6 months in the hopes that we all stay interested enough to keep playing.
TLDR: Same kitten different day.
jul… xxx Julian xxx, you got kicked 5 months ago. let it go.
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Looking for
2mes/rev
1 guard
1 necro
in that order
pickle rickkkkk
Disclaimer : these are not my videos. They were made by a player that was with us while we pugmanded. Also, Anet, thank you for the gliders.
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Hey everyone, after moving and some people having IRL obligations, our roster is down again. We’re currently on kaineng which is a link server.
As such, we’d like to open recruitment back up. Pm in game or on forums for more information.
These are some videos to see what we’re about.
Still looking for about 1-2 people
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xm6tegsjjk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyL6k5Gx3zQ
We are looking for 1-2 players. Pm if interested
video of the other night us vs DOCCCPKRTA group
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ2hDBhDYMw
Make it happen pls . ty anet
it’s when you’re running around aimlessly with a cool ranch dorito above your head and eventually you start talking to people and they want to join your guild
This thread isn’t to measure kittens or anything. I’m just encouraging guild leaders to look at what’s going on. Maybe this thread can even motivate someone or help a new commander get ideas on what to do to create his/her own guild.
Something that I’ve found is making videos has helped our recruitment, especially early.
We started with videos like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-oPFQK1f50 and shared them with our server. We then started making WvW only videos and that seemed to spike recruitment for us. The first vids were pretty smallscale stuff but then grew.
Our guy that makes videos is TBT ruggs and he uses shadowplay to record. Most people have it if they possess and Nvidia graphics card. From there, you can grab a video editing program for pretty cheap.
Recording also helps A LOT when it comes to seeing who is out of position etc because you CAN’T always look 360 around you all the time in order to see what’s going on (as a commander).
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If anything, our guild is slowly growing. People come, people leave. You have to stay up on it.
thats just cos all the other options on your server left
I’ve seen more people playing since the dust has settled. People quite frankly are having a lot of fun playing right now. But I’ll let you think that.
So true! It’s up to the leadership and players to have fun in a way that they can… even if it’s with 2-3 people like chorazin said.
Also angel from [DN], https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krmLAqeiOPs @ 3:20 labeling a guild as a “blob guild” is often times an attempt at deflection. Let’s please keep this on topic and keep the insults to a minimum. This is all about being constructive.
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This post is just letting people know that it’s possible to start from scratch or come back from the brink. It’s up to people to step up and put up that dorito. Don’t be afraid to jump out there even if you’re wiping. Get to know people and keep at it.
We can pull people into this game mode, and we can make this fun for people. There’s a lot of people grumbling and saying they want to start up a guild or don’t have enough people to wvw, but they’re just sitting around until their guild dies (or never starts up).
First off, I really don’t intend this as a troll post of any kind. I’m not trying to demean or shame anyone, but I just wanted to address a few things I’ve seen or heard being tossed around by various commanders across many, many servers.
Is your guild struggling? Participation down? Commanders burnt out?
Well you really aren’t alone. Since coming back to this game, I’ve seen a dozen guilds collapse. Guilds that once ran 20+, gvg’d, or even ran havoc are all vanishing.
First let me start by saying this, the guild I am in is not immune. I returned to this game around six to eight months ago. I had about 6 players who actually knew what they were doing. The rest were from other games and a maybe half of those had never touched guild wars 2 in their lives. I had just bought HoT 15 minutes into playing Gw2 again and had no idea what a rev or resistance was. We got run the kitten over. A lot.
Now, being a guy that is pretty prideful, I was bent out of shape. I don’t like losing, and I sure as hell losing that badly, but it happened… multiple times. What did I do? Two things.
First, I found out who was at the top of their game… for open field WvW, GvG (they’re different), etc… and I tried to pick their brains and comps. I also relied on some of the players I had just recruited as well as some of the ex guildies I was in contact with (which were in those top guilds or were now guild leaders themselves).
Many of you are past that step. You at least know how this game works, but here is arguably the most important advice I can give those of you that have declining rosters. Do something about it.
Don’t sit on your kitten and hope that people are going to show up. Don’t “call raids” because you don’t have enough people. Time constraints are understandable, but you have to make sure you proactively figure out what is going on and how to fix it, or even how to work around your schedules. Get a back up driver. Coordinate with other guilds on your off days. You can’t fix anything if you’re sitting around whining about it. It takes you, as a driver, tagging up constantly to recruit. EBG is a great place and if you see a tag, just ask if you can tag up instead. There are many servers where the main commanders will let you try your hand. Be vocal, be patient, and get to know those around you. I didn’t judge pugs when I came back. I only tried to point a few things out, and I pulled quite a few SBIers and later TCers into a channel to talk to them about gameplay.
So, my roster started growing. Slowly at first, and with people who were pretty new to WvW (I even recruited a few from sPvP). It wasn’t, by any means, a home run, but I kept wvwing every chance I got (which isn’t much sometimes because of school). I also made sure to have a back up driver. Most of these little guilds… No one knows you. Don’t be afraid to wipe as long as you learn something from it. I can’t stress that enough. There is zero burden on your shoulders. Swallow your pride and just keep going out there. The recruits will come.
“But Cid, I run a lot and don’t get any recruits.” Do you try? Are you filling a niche? Is it fun for the people around you? I’ve seen a lot of newer commanders and guilds run into brick walls over and over. I see the same group, week after week and they haven’t changed a single thing. You’re just bags. That’s not fun for anyone. Ask established guilds for builds and see what works. I’m not saying to go full GvG kitten meta, but you need to know what’s going on and the basics. You can’t win unless you try, and if trying isn’t working then use the losses as guidance.
There are people out there that are similar to you. They can be taught, and if none of these things work. You should, as a last ditch effort, move servers. Remember there are many special snowflakes out there that can fill your rosters.
Anyway, if you gain anything from this, it’s that you should tag up and try your hand at commanding. If your guild is decaying, you need to do something about it (same concepts for guilds who are starting out). If there is an established commander running and you want to tag up and take the pugs, just whisper him or her. More often than not, they will let you try your hand. There’s a few exceptions, but most of those commanders aren’t very good and will probably log off after they get killed a few times so just be patient.
Cheers
might be fun. ppl looking for some reason to come back
You know what they’re going to do with this right? If they do anything at all they’ll add some bs siege with unlimited hitcap or some Eotm style bs.
cuz they’ve been sooooo in touch with the community over the last few years
Few days ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8kXMYg6TKs&t=68s
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lmao, this eotm commander guy cracks me up. “so gud b/c I tag up and run around map avoiding zergs”
do you “command” pve zergs with that tag up too big guy? I hear you’re needed in ember bay
for the record the OP is right. EOTM was a waiting area and now it’s time to get rid of it.
So, how many of you are condi necro mains that are terrible at the basic/brainless task of stacking condi on said rev or a pet and just pressing one button?
Too hard for you? I hear teq needs more ppl to spam 1 on him.
Hello guys, it’s been a while since I wrote any kind of recruitment post, and I’ll keep it short and sweet. We are on FA, fights are lit and we’re looking for a few players. We don’t run over 25, and we’re looking to fill some spots. We run 8:30 – midnight EST. 5/7 days a week, usually Thurs/Sun off depending on the week.
Recent videos (from the last month or two) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4yvFzyPl-o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKBu4eDkiAw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krmLAqeiOPs&t=216s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ka5hc8DfI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-wGBKnAufU&t=101s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=cRoh_h601j8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn0XDz-FmXQ
Brief history: TBT started out a few months after this game released. We were initially in a PvX guild, but a lot of us had zero interest in PvE and instead started really pushing WvW / sPvP so we started another guild. We dipped our feet in GvG and started challenging everyone at the top of the rankings in order to get our kitten handed to us. We were stuck in the glicko ghetto and then moved to silver tier. I’d say we were a #prettygood guild back then. We went to archeage where we took over the calleil server and owned two castles etc. Our guild then went on hiatus for a while. Fast forward a while and here we are.
We’ve quickly recruited a core and have hopped into GvGing again. We run our own builds and have enjoyed a lot of success in open field. We are not elitists, but in TBT, everyone pulls their own weight. I’ve had a great time playing different games with this group and hope to continue our strong run.
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If we get rid of a lot of the other outliers, the main reason people don’t TRY wvw is because they can get a watered down version in EoTM. It’s a place that encourages karma training and commanders who actively avoid each other. Honestly, this whole game, with the mega servers and mechanics, has become “blob to win” in every sense of the word. The large map trains that happen in pve have carried over to WvW with players who never have a chance to experience WvW flocking to EoTM in order to get a gift of battle or a daily. It actively encourages commanders and players to avoid one another and has become a zombie mentality. Granted, it’s a limited sample size, but I’ve come across a few players in PvE that have expressed how “boring” wvw was because all they did was jump into EoTM and attacked empty structures, rarely seeing another player or group.
Honestly, at this stage in the game’s cycle, what purpose does it server minus the occasional guild going in there and trolling? It just takes potential players away from actual maps/servers. The idea was good at one point, but it just seems like it’s hurting the game mode now. You are welcome to disagree and all opinions are welcome, but there is no denying that it started off as a lobby in order to facilitate the overflow of players who were interested and could not get into wvw. It’s served it’s purpose, and is now hampering the potential for WvW to continue to grow.
My other suggestion was another tournament. It can be kitten only, but I know for a fact it would bring players back. The tournament itself doesn’t need to mean anything, but it’s highly symbolic that you guys aren’t giving/have completely given up on the game mode. I’ve heard countless times that people need extra motivation to get them interested. You just have to bait the hook. Honestly, an unpaid intern can do this one. Just announce the winner for each grouping – it does not matter how it’s scored really. Just get this thing going.
Also, you might want to throw in a GvG tournament in a guild hall. There are people doing this, just give them your blessing. Put the streams up on your twitter. It wouldn’t cost you anything. Just keep a mod/dev in the loop and monitor it. Any carrot at this point would revitalize the game mode.
Also, pls make epidemic blockable. Ty.
bump, gl
/15 chars
maybe you guys should work on not standing in one place and spamming receive the light / feel my wrath
I mean, you’re probably the only guild in this game that makes it a habit to sit in one spot and take necro wells to the face. I don’t know what you’re complaining about when you lack any kind of basic skills. We’ve fought you maybe 20 times in the last two weeks and at this point if you heard TS you’d be as amazed as I am at this complaining (ps I tell everyone to stand around you and spam 1 with guardian staff until you all die)
definite l2p issue
Are you so lonely you cry alone in the shower so you can’t see or feel your tears? Do you call sex lines just to talk to another human being? Sucks. Anyway, If you’re looking for a fun server (for wvw), come to FA.
I’ve been on almost every server in the game (3 in the last 2 months). I finally found a place I like in FA. Before moving, I had trouble pugmanding, people wouldn’t get into ts and recruitment was meh. Ever since coming to FA, I cured my erectile dys… pugmanding.
But don’t take my word for it, listen to these testimonials.
“FA cured my limp wrist” – FA pug
“#harambe” – FA commander
“why did we go in?” – FA pug
“#makeFAgreatagain” – FA commander
“jajajaja” – Tyrion
Anyway, we like puppies and long walks on the beach. I found a unicorn once. It’s pretty cool. Also, memes.
If you’re interested in moving your guild or yourself over, pm me in game. OCX is the DREAM. Also, we’re in t2 and hover around t2 and t3. There’s many, many fights to be had here.
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I clicked your link and I think I found the problem
You’re a ranger
I dont know about you guys but I’m roleplaying as a pirate!
This was an elaborate ruse to get us all to buy the new pirate costumes.
yarrrrrrrrrrr
Still looking for players. Our priority is a couple eles and a few heavies to round out our comp. Will accept decent players of all classes except thief / ranger (sorry guys got those on lock). We don’t want to run over 25. We like to keep it in guild as far as raids go, but we’ll pug it up on occasion… also, we don’t really use the boonshare crutch if at all avoidable.
TS is required as always. Need to be able to take constructive criticism.
Raid last reset:
You can send me an in game mail (preferable) or just shoot me a msg.
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Yeah… it’s a bit much… lol
Boon sharing/stacking is fine as a strategy because it involves certain builds and group comps, the problem is the current state where groups can stack up a ridiculous amount of each boon and have them up permanently, leaving little counter play because even with boon stripping/conversion they can just be reapplied to easily. It just needs to be toned down and brought into line, not totally eliminated as a tactic.
imho just quickness nerf of a 5-6 second hard cap would mean more coordination instead of prebuffing
half the “fight” guilds in the game would die if you nerfed boonshare sadly most guilds have devolved from having hyper coordination to just running super tanky with 1+ minutes of swiftness
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great video fifteen
ty another one is in progress
You’re all way too young to know Nick Cage.
Get your own drunken kittens.
You have no idea.
ty for the bump sir
the love is so real :*)
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When Anet got a new director, they did a right step and listened to community for the first time. They brought back Alphine BLs, made reward tracks, tried to fix population issues with server linking, announced ideas how to balance scoring/nigthcapping, even decreased lag a bit. That was hype and many people returned to WvW and had fun.
Now Anet went the wrong way again. Community told that population imbalance and scoring (especcialy nigthcapping) are core issues that should be addressed as soon as possible, but Anet went to “do you want cosmetic updates? do you want repair hammer? open field cannons and mortars? (w00t?)”. I told several times on this forum that core issue of WvW is that system benefits avoiding fair fights and doing karma train/stealth/nightcap/blobbing/ganging. If they only listen and change scoring system to benefit players for winning fair fights, taking defended objectives, and punish players for avoiding fights, stealth capping and outnumbering.
Well, the core issues stay and Anet is running out of time. Bless Online, Camelot Unchained and Crowfall are very close, and if Anet did not manage to fix core WvW issues until their releases, people will just leave WvW to new RvR games.
This is so true, but this, like every other complaint will get ignored. WE HAVE NEW COMMANDER TAG COLORS DOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
man… this is totally what WvW needed to make it great again!
I’ll agree with the wvw part. It’s probably one of the unique game modes and the only reason it’s survived this long is because it depends on fighting different players so there’s always some degree of variety. I think that’s the most missed part of anet’s ventures into wvw.
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So, I guess I’ll be the bad guy here, and I’ll probably get trolled too, but I feel like this has to be said. To me, the thing that makes WvW interesting is the people, and I feel like WvW has always had what people want… karma trains, duels, guild vs guild, and blob vs blob. It didn’t need to get gimmicky it just needed better match making. Adding gimmicks just turns people like me off to the game. You guys had a game mode that was perfect for esports. In fact, some guild vs guild videos have thousands of views. There’s even a whole other community with sites that’s built around WvW. Instead, you focused on Spvp which barely gets any viewers and raids/living story. Literally, all you guys had to do is fix your lag issues and balance match making, but instead you’re bringing back maps like desert bl (which completely throws off balance if nothing else because all the bls were the same for a reason) and adding the most gimmicky kitten imaginable. There’s already a place for gimmicks and that’s eotm. People like myself who want a simpler more streamlined WvW are now reduced to two maps and EBG. With queues during NA prime, that really screws us. Why not just bring people back by fixing the core problems with WvW? The same problems that you guys have had since release? Balancing and lag.
I guess I just don’t get it. Banners were pretty fail. The new bls were pretty fail. eotm turned into a karma train… every time you’ve pretty much reverted to the original wvw without fixing the core issues, but I guess this is just the cycle you’re going to continue. Idk, it just feels like you’re really killing the last part of the game that I like and find interesting. Of course I’ll keep playing until something else with a WvW comes out, but it really sucks watching you guys kitten things up over and over.
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Why are you bringing back a map that makes most players groan when it’s mentioned in WvW? Are you honestly that out of touch with your player base. Do a quick poll, go to any server on any ebg or any bl and ask a guild that’s running or in map chat if they like that map… the majority of the time you’ll get a solid no. I know I have accounts on two servers and Ive already seen the map chats. Or maybe you’re forcing it because you made it and you don’t want it to go to waste? That seems like the rule with Anet. If it’s terrible just try to minor bug fix and release it later… it’ll grow on people right? How about scrapping it altogether and working on some of the major lag/d/c and server balancing issues that have been plaguing this game mode for well over 2+ years now?
No…? Well it’s ok, you can just bleed players and add living stories until you have one megaserver and everyone is in a giant blob killing npcs.
I’ve been getting disconnected since the last patch. Tried every setting available… tried running in compatibility mode… hell, I tried uninstalling and reinstalling the game. I’m starting to think I should keep it uninstalled because you guys honestly need to get your kitten together. I know it’s not only me, but when I’ve got 20+ people following me and I keep dropping that’s not fun for anyone. Mid-fight people are disconnecting left and right. The skill lag is honestly unplayable sometimes. So can we please fix this already or are you guys just going to pretend there’s nothing wrong?
But cannons and repair hammers doe… amirite? I’ve honestly never seen a company so out of touch with a game mode. You’re giving me flashbacks of archeage.
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Hey can you PLEASE TO GOD FIX YOUR D/C IN WVW.
Looking for server where I can pugmand (doesn’t matter how good/bad the players are). Won’t be playing often just occasionally unless something there really hooks me. Just looking to kill some time. I have zero interest in joining a guild.
ign Èl cid / smilingknight
used to lead TBT (still do on AA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql_hF5kZ-P4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuo3od6-iIs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irAyBqzZlaY
If you have a possible landing spot then please contact me on this thread or through forum mail.
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TBT is the only guild I’d consider joining if it wasn’t for reforming my old guild.
They have the desire for success.
They have the drive to constantly do better.
They have leadership and drivers that demand your best and will except nothing else.
They also know how to be serious and have FUN in the teamspeak while they’re not fighting.I wasn’t with TBT long, but they’re the only zergbusting guild out there right now that I would whole heartily support.
Thanks Koldo
All the best with Beast!
Looking for 2 necros 1 war 1 guard.
kitten your logic
I dont mind food buffs I would like the ability to swap gear out without having to have an inventory full of it
So bloodlust STOMPS give points… but why don’t all kills give points?
My suggestion is simple :
make all wvw kills (last hit) give at least 1/5th a wvw point while kills on siege only give 1/10th or less
Looking for 2 guards and 1 necro
having other 80s that you can play is preferable
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