Guild Wars 2

welcome DJ and tsk into the KWBH fold hopefully this’ll give us enough to defend at least one borderland offpeak during oceanic / EU time -_-

Darek.1836:

Actually just got a tip that the decision was made before there were insults.. as in they decided to leave last Sunday, and that also not only Agg will be funding it, but also KWBH and FoE

Lol… moobs go home you’re drunk

if there was a mass exodus from FC, I’d try to convince my guild to move there to even things up and keep it a fun match, but moving a maxed out guild is a nightmare… lose bounties treks challenges jps … pay 20g a person… it’s more trouble than its worth with so many players

personally I liked the ability to move around and would love some kind of incentive system but I digress

I got there at the tail end of the gvg (being with one of the guild spvp teams at the time) but I found a lot of the moves that were pulled very disrespectful by the guild we were fighting … jumping the gun etc. It was fun last time when we both had beginners in there and were just trying to get better. Also, on a side note, the guilds that were observing and several players’ comments were pretty inappropriate… you say you’re non drama, but so are we and I would have kicked players saying those things in a heartbeat.

since being addicted to heavy armor, rolled a guard… tpvp going much better now (I know I’m a traitor)

why are people that have no idea how a war works posting here trying to say wars aren’t underpowered… I play a ton of tpvp and atm I’m seeing people get raged at for even rolling warrior. Btw I can keep retal up on my guard and spam “LOL” while autoattacking and dodging once in a while so the warrior dies… I honestly feel bad for warriors at this point

they’re fantastic for pve content and even wvw but for spvp… not so much

Vicarious.3047:

HARRELSONNN.4872:

I steamroll people with my warrior pve AND pvp. It might just be the fact you play multiple classes or have little interest in the class.

Then you don’t competitively play pvp….. or you think wvw is the same as pvp……

swinsk.6410:

I’m guessing your warriors was a DPS/glass cannon. Focusing on bursting people down.

Warrior is not that class anymore. Hate to be the one to tell you that!

That was my warrior role in my tourney team, yes, cause at high lvls of play it is the ONLY thing a warrior was to effectively do better or as good as any other class. Playing ANY other kind of warrior was gimping your tourney team.

So yeah I know warriors aren’t that class anymore and that’s part of the issue, cause THAT WAS THE ONLY CLASS THEY COULD BE. Without that now warriors are literally completely useless to a team.

I play hammer in hotjoins still cause there’s less blinds and AoE stuns rock the crap out of hotjoiners, but again hotjoins mean nothing.

amen to this

two different leaderboards and a reset on this stupid ranking would be nice…

If so I would love to know what build you use to be a viable teammate because I am just being clobbered against any half decent bunker in the game… our dmg spike has been reduced horribly and we aren’t as good a bunker as any other class … can’t remove boons… so where’s that leave us?

anyone at all have a viable build?

that’s really sad
:( spvp is really taking a hit because of this… and right now the leaderboards are less about who is good and more about who has a premade

With this ranking system, it seems unfair to put random players against organized teams in ts or other voice chat and all running a good team composition … it’s a great ratings boost on the leaderboard just hopping in there but eventually it isn’t even fun for the guys doing the stomping… is there any way we can get separate joins for premade teams and random players and maybe split the leaderboards

just throwing suggestions out there I’d love to fight other premades once in a while and absolutely hate being stomped on when I join random games

with ratings hot joins really hurt (trust me I’m feeling it right now)

it’s those guys with premades that come in and pub stomp that are reaping the rewards imo

best thing I’ve ever found was with outmanned buff killing a camp supervisor – venom, but that was within a week of release

for the last two to three months I haven’t had a rare drop at all the RNG hates me big time … so you’re not alone

RoninDB.9540:

Does he say “mouth breather” a lot? That may be the same guy we had back in December on TC. He was kind of not nice. However, I think the majority ignored him and he went BG.. and then he went to FA. He can’t seem to find a home. It’s actually a little bit sad.

yup that’s the guy hahaha

although ‘guy’ seems less fitting than ‘child’ – except now, like I mentioned before, he’s added racial slurs to his arsenal

I reported that guy, he was being very racist towards… well pretty much every minority in map chat… simply amazed he isn’t banned yet

All you can do is block him. Some people don’t get enough attention from their parents etc and tend to act out. There is not much we can do except block him and hope customer support knocks ’em out of the game…not much use getting upset over people like that.

Honestly though, he’s the first troll I’ve seen in a while (and one of the worst with his slurs) otherwise ET is the greatest server I’ve ever been on in terms of how friendly the players are – this guy is a recent xfer because I recognized him from my time spent on kaineng (although he wasn’t as bad there).

sorry that he’s bothering you duke

Debois Guilbert.6413:

Entropy.4732:

Dear GoM,

I know we had our spats at times. I know we fought bitterly towards the end there, but we really, REALLY miss you and we’ve been thinking we made a terrible mistake leaving you for SF. At first, Sorrows Furnace seemed like it was everything you weren’t. On our first few dates, SF was super easy to get along with. But after we started going steady, SF turned into a total nightmare to live with. It’s just not working out. SF is, like, totally wrong for us.

Look, we… we might have rushed into things. We regret breaking up with you, GoM. You should move back in with us in T7. SF just doesn’t get us. Last night at 4:00am they camped our spawn point for hours with a massive zerg while they simultaneously hit our keep so we never had a fair chance of defending it. I know we accused you of cheating on us with HoD, but you would never have camped our spawn point like that. Never. You always took our keep fair and square. SF is super insensitive to our needs. They mercilessly taunt us on the forums and mega zerg us constantly. It’s just not the same as it was with you, GoM. No more razor close matches, no more waking up on sundays and going shopping with you at the Skritt farmer’s market for shinies. Sigh. We want you back GoM. I know you’ve got a new tier now and you’re seeing somebody else but I think we should give this relationship another chance. Come back to us GoM. Fight your way out of this T8 mess so we can break up with SF and get back to some fun, sexy, romantic WvW. We miss you.

Love,
NSP

P.S. I found one of your old loot bags in Golanda and it still smells like you.

Okay, this made me laugh. On a serious note: NSP it is time for each of us to move on with our lives. Sure, we had some fun times spiking each other repeatedly. We will always have that. But it is over now and we both have to accept this. Wishing your loot bags hold precursors, GoM

Some pictures from reset night:

1. Another gravity defying loot bag at Sunny: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/2-22-DH-vs-GoM-vs-HoD/page/3#post1544897
2. Fighting at bay. We held this time. Yeah, I know I don’t have any supply…

Holy cow, I knew you had a lot there with siege, but that’s more green dots than I thought lol

I still run warrior in wvw, but I’m done with them in spvp / tpvp. Most of the abilities are so easily dodgable that a good player will hardly ever get hit.

Having no real combo fields besides fire and not being able to remove boons from bunkers I feel the warrior meta has switched to more of a support class.

Bleeds /burns were fun for a while but I wasn’t able to fight the better bunkers effectively, and there’s a few better classes at roaming imo.

Idk, just for me this frenzy nerf really took away our white dmg spike which let me kill bunkers now it’s just not worth the hassle playing the warrior unless it’s in wvw or in a dungeon.

Thanks for putting in the extra effort. I am seeing a ton of red on the forums and I really appreciate how quickly Devon answers questions. It’s been a while since the wvw forum has had so much red :p

also fantastic job changing the t8 match up, I think I can speak for most of t8 and sf when I say, it’s a lot more fun now

Great job at stonemist everyone! Can’t believe you guys held against larger forces of both FC and GoM attacking at the same time… can’t believe I had to work and missed it!

Congratulations to our new and older commanders, I know our guild has a lot of new faces and a recent changing of the guard for officers but we’re really coming a long way. Proud of you guys – keep it up!

and we are really making progress at gearing players up and working as a cohesive unit and the same can be said about all of ET

you guys are awesome

I, for one, am very happy with the new match ups. Thank you very much carver

Kay.5416:

Hey ET, mad props to KWBH guild & the zerg they have going. Nice job! I got a neat screenshot of half your group at the bridge.

that tower battle was epic – felt like you had your whole server with you the first time you guys charged up there :p

we had some great times in GoM bl before that as well

also, that person sitting is our infamous “power ranger”

If any guild wants to do some gvg, please get in touch with me. It doesn’t matter if you’re a large guild or small guild or even if most of you are geared or not, it’s a great way for our newer players to get practice and it’s a great way to get to know each other. There won’t be any frapsing of this to chest thump on the forums.This is just to have fun.

Gl out there guys, hope we can set some stuff up.

See, that’s perfect, it’s unfortunate most posts aren’t anything like that.

Ungood.3054:

SniffyCube.6107:

I think we can really learn a lesson from these forums.

I can’t speak for other servers, but ET we’re better than this. Why do people get on here just to complain about numbers? It’s obvious they have more but it’s also not the only reason they win in some situations. Sure it’s the backbone of the score right now but I’m talking more of the individual group fights / open fights that happen (because it’s really easy to defend a fully upgraded tower / keep), but they aren’t all bad and trying to slam them just makes you seem really childish.

I have not been trying to slam them, but the truth hurts. Everyone that ever fought them, even after they asked for an honest critique, has told them the same thing. They have the numbers but not the skill.

Their hostility to that assessment is where all the drama lies, not in the assessment itself. Case in point when ET asked for an honest assessment, we did not get much of a better score then SF with the analysis of “made of glass”, however, we at ET have politely accepted that and moved on.

Take that as you will.

Comments like this need to stop. It would be okay if you didn’t have a sig but you represent a large guild on ET and people see what you say about SF thinking we all have the same opinions.

They might be glassy sure but glassy =/= bad. Our players are the same way, so why do they win some open field fights? They aren’t always outnumbered and I’ve seen our pugs do some pretty stupid stuff as well. People are people, stop discriminating against a whole server… everyone has bad or new players, but because they have more players and we aer going against them we notice a lot more of their blunders, and I bet it’s the same with them… you aren’t really looking at your guys as much as them so they probably think we make more mistakes.

As far as Vk’s comments on glassy, I have a similar stance as the poster of the glassy comment: I threw out an honest opinion … and don’t want to get into this drama

Ofc no offense to anyone, including yourself… we all know they have the population but why keep bringing it up? Anet has said they are working on it (for how much or little faith people have in that statement). It isn’t their fault they’re here.

It’s impossible to make these forums flame-free, but we can try to make them more enjoyable for people (and I’m guilty of the flaming as well).

I think we can really learn a lesson from these forums.

I can’t speak for other servers, but ET we’re better than this. Why do people get on here just to complain about numbers? It’s obvious they have more but it’s also not the only reason they win in some situations. Sure it’s the backbone of the score right now but I’m talking more of the individual group fights / open fights that happen (because it’s really easy to defend a fully upgraded tower / keep), but they aren’t all bad and trying to slam them just makes you seem really childish.

For some of the new guilds that have come to our servers, claiming you’re god’s gift to pvp and are going to carry our server isn’t going to make you many friends. Just an imho and observation.

Also +1 to fc, minus the odd man out here QQing you guys have kept quiet and had a certain humility that was one of the major reasons I came to ET with the guild a while back ago… wasn’t about the odds.

…and why is everyone so hard on VK? There were never any illusions about them staying so why try to slander them all the time? They came, and, although they were a bit too loud on the forums for my tastes, they helped show FC new tricks. Seems like they were appreciated there so why can’t that compute for people from other servers?

Anyway, take it easy guys gl in wvw.

JMAtaide.6823:

Good job to all the fergsusons warriors on reset. First place on reset, now a close second and probably for the week. Sorry Sf looks like you will be staying in tier 8 for much longer. The battles are constant but the War has just begun. Thank you Vk for joining us, any and every guild is greastly appreciate to join us. Not a commander yet but as soon as i can afford it me and my guild will fight until the end. For fun of course;-) The only thing that irritates me the most is the constant sf theifs and mesmers. Id like to fight a prof that doesnt run with their tails between their legs and die with honor. I sport the engi and I am not a force to be reckoned with. Gl to all sides this week. Fergs we have already proved ourselves with last week and this weeks reset. Lets keep them on their toes.

I don’t see why you can’t be a “force to be reckoned with” … msg me in game and we’ll get your build sorted out the rest of it is experience

Alchemist.3692:

I wonder between VK and KWBH (i think? something like that) which zerg guild is stronger.. I’d like to see them fight each other, since so far I’ve seen they have similar style of play

Don’t know why everyone thinks that “zerg” is a negative thing… Most people tend to think of a zerg as a lot of players charging aimlessly at an objective. I prefer to call what we both do “a lot of players working together as a team in order to overcome lesser organized forces.” Anyway, we’re still working on gearing / leveling even more players in the proper builds and such. Things will continue to progress for us as time goes on.

A little aside, while KWBH has a commander or two that participates in the ETA alliance, it is our stance that we do not consider ourselves in any alliance. We want to get to know our new friends first.

Also, saying any given server on any other forum post has no talent is flat out ridiculous. Every server large or small has talented players and not so talented players. It’s our job as a server to correct mistakes and help people grow. Throwing dirt on another server or group of people because you saw X player or players do something wrong just shows a lack of maturity.

I know ET has queues right now but they’re not too bad 10~ mins to get on any map was wondering how HOD SF FC were looking or any of the other prior med pop servers

Just wondering if any servers out there have no queues @ reset / very short queues on maybe 1 map and how things are throughout the week.

I am sort of interested in seeing how this free xfer window worked for some servers. Please post away

this hate @ Sf on the forums makes everyone on our server look bad :/

let’s just nerf every mechanic of the game so people that don’t understand and it will make everyone super happy and make this game super interesting and have a TON of depth ! We can start by deleting thieves because of stealth that’s obviously op and mesmers because they have many clones which is super super super op then we can get rid of guards because they’re too hard to kill and engies because they carry a gun and gw2 should be anti gun then we should get rid of rangers because of a robin hood copyright infringement and eles because they remind me of gandalf and gandalf is really op

in the end we should just all play warriors and siege should all be disabled so we can run into a giant group of each other swinging our swords because white dmg is the only thing that should be allowed in the game everything else is op

edit: they must be greatsword warriors or else you will be banned from the game

oh, and downed state is dumb because I once had someone rally in a fight against me … and he beat me so unfair!

they’re not a single player guild…they’re centered around the group in wvw and gw2 is a group game and by having good synergies they can beat the snot out of scores of you.. you picked out one guy not specced for dueling… congrats man. I always laugh at people that comment on how good they are in a wvw duel. If you want to know who the better player is go into an empty spvp server with the same class on the same build with the same stats and fight if not then don’t talk smack …everything is centered around the team

btw loken, before you leave, if I have time (going to easter with the family) we can do a 10v10 or other small group. I don’t mind we have a lot of new players that just got the game in January and it will be a fun fight / whip some of them into shape

But what will ferguson’s crossing do without you

no but honestly it’s really sad to see you go guys. you will be missed and thank you for all the work you put into wvw

and devon sorry for the wall of text mail

fun fights in sf bl, took a lot of you, but you got us

where’d the massive group of players go after? We were wandering around for a good 10-15 mins after looking for a fight

glad you guys are back on

Just started a guard (frenzy nerf killed warrior spike dmg pvp wise) looking for viable builds for roaming wvw and also in spvp. I’ve played almost every class since launch so I’m a pretty quick study. Just looking for builds and a bit of explanation. Doesn’t have to be mobile and I’m open to more dps oriented or tanky oriented builds … or hybrids. I have heard about this healway build if anyone can explain a bit of it to me that would be great. Excited to learn the ropes so just let me know what works for ppl / what most ppl are running and have had the most success with in spvp and wvw.

killahmayne.9518:

Warriors will never be the bunker that Guardians and D/D elementalists are unless there are changes in balance, for all the reasons the OP stated above.

Both have better on demand condition removal, that is easily traited into, both have insane boon generation, both have better heal sustainability. Eles have better CC, guardians probably around the same as a warrior, warrior might have slightly more possibly, if they aren’t a shout build.

Heck, even a bunker mesmer is better than a bunker warrior

I accept that warriors aren’t a bunker class, we do damage, or at least that is what we are supposed to do. What I can’t really accept though is how a class with the lowest base stats outsustains a class with the highest base stats. This is mostly sPvP I am talking about, in WvW we are more or less OK but still

So true. I’m honestly thinking about hanging up my warrior after the frenzy nerf. Got my title … was my favorite class but meh this one really did us in for dmg. No way we can remove boons fast enough and we’re all white dmg spike wise. Fighting a bunker with burn and bleed is a joke if they have any sense… and like you said our bunker isn’t as good.

So, I’ve run banners shoutheals burnbleed etc in spvp (having my title for a long long time) and I had finally found a build / weapon set I enjoyed. I could deal enough dmg to be able to kill most bunkers because spike in damage because of frenzy … and if they dodged /blocked it then it would be a cat and mouse game until the cds / trait could be activated again (most good players did so it would make for a very interesting fight). Now that frenzy is 50%, do warriors really have that much of a spike minus axe f1 or a killshot (both ridiculously easy to dodge)? I have a feeling anet really didn’t play warriors much in tournaments before they decided to apply this. Anyone else really feeling the affect of a slower war?

wars have some easy to look for animations and don’t seem to have that much depth in the dmg spike arena …100% / 50% extra dmg taken to 50% / 50% extra dmg taken is also a huge hit on our utility

I mean, I wouldn’t even mind the frenzy nerf if we could remove boons with a utility or spell but come on… killing bunkers just got ridiculous

anyone found something viable because condition war against a decent bunker is just a joke

wtb some of the xfers fc got :p

Isaac.6041:

I don’t think either Ferguson’s Crossing or Eredon Terrace have much to offer besides outmanned buff atm.

They don’t seem to have any active community websites or community teamspeak or mumble that other servers do.

It’s a real shame that servers aren’t given official forums to build their communities but all the successful or somewhat successful servers have 1) a nice community website and 2) a somewhat stable shared teamspeak/mumble server

Of course someone can be the hero and make those things for FC or ET but last I checked the “Eredon Coalition” website was talking about transferring to Fort Aspenwood way back in November.

actually, we have both… but please let your ignorance shine

an item that unsoulbinds items from certain characters so you can move items from one person to the next (still account bound)

Darek.1836:

Hey guys I appreciate that you’re having a nice discussion but this thread is about Anet’s health condition.
We have a bazillion threads to discuss things like whether or not T8 is putting in effort or should they transfer.

so true! I hope they get better soon; it would be nice to see them around again… hope it isn’t serious

nah most SF are realistic about outnumbering us (the same SF that are in wvw all the time), nothing we can do and nothing they can do about it except for either of us to move… given the cost and attachment to our servers, I don’t think that’s going to happen for either of us

we’re making the best out of our match up with fun skirmishes once in a while – keep it up guys see you in wvw or pve if you ever want to guest and hang out

Fozzik.1742:

@ King Amadaeus –
Wow, you’re smart. I bet you’ve got that website bookmarked so you can learn all the high-tech science, and dazzle all the second graders you meet.

You must be correct. SF doesn’t have a population advantage. It’s all in my head. Each night, when I am fighting with 5 other people against multiple 30-man SF zergs…it’s all just a trick of the light bouncing off of things. Thanks for clearing that up.

Dude, you are seeing one thing, and everyone else is seeing another. Here’s a link for you.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002520/

I truly hope that you get the help and medication you need.

I lol’d

I don’t know if that’s entirely true. My guild plays on a t8 server against huge odds and against a large zerg we pick out the naked players or lowbies to knock down and rally off of. I usually rally 2-3 times a fight against a larger force and we end up winning a lot of our fights. It’s all about incorporating in into your strategy. Embrace the rally. Be the rally.

Oresh.4729:

Oresh.4729:

what the point of making 20 new thread per week about this problem?
if you want sf to move up just dont wvw for 2 weeks and lets them score 695ppt.

yeah, totally agree! why should anyone ever complain about a problem in hopes that it gets fixed … why would anyone try to bring a problem to anet’s attention or be frustrated that they don’t answer one of the 20 new threads per week

blasphemy! I demand you delete all posts on this subject

And who can forget this gem posted a few down from a player directly threatening to leave the game if the ratings are changed and his t1 rank is moved. Which, by the way, was one day before this was supposed to go into effect.

Habib Loew.6239:

Update 2/7/2013:

We’ve been keeping a very close watch on this week’s matchups and, despite our concerns regarding the recent population shifts, it seems that many of the games are quite competitive. At the same time we’ve been evaluating some possible changes to the math we use to calculate ratings. After examining a number of new methodologies for weighting the outcomes of matches we have found that our existing formulas already do pretty much what we want them to do. Certainly none of the candidates that we tried yielded better results.

In light of the strong community response to the idea of a WvW ratings reset, the results of our ratings formula investigations, and our data on the current matchups we have decided not to reset the WvW ratings at this time. All existing WvW ratings will be preserved and the rating calculation methodology will remain unchanged. Any existing mismatches should be corrected by the system in relatively short order. Now that there is less volatility in the player base for each world we expect the quality of matches to improve more quickly. This is both because the rating system is operating in a less unpredictable environment and because more stable teams tend to produce better results.

Thank you all for your feedback on this matter, and for your patience while we explored the various options. The community response was a key element in our decision making process.

This update has also been added to the OP.

Quite a few were from SoS players (check what tier they’re in now after their mass exodus).

Starting to think that if we all threaten to quit then maybe we’ll get a response, but then again, most of the attrition / players leaving or quitting wvw on our servers has been silent …so maybe that’s where we’ve made our mistake?

Also, nifty link to the even matches Habib was talking about – please note t8 and try not to laugh

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/20#NA

match last week

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/24#NA

Throw back sunday!

Anyone remember when they officially announced this then suddenly stopped bcause of the vocal minority who threatened to move to ESO if this happened (mostly from t1 who would have easily moved back in the t1 spot but would have had some diversity / maybe 1-3 bad weeks of matches… or who knows, maybe they’d fight someone who was stuck in a lower tier and find an unexpected foe)?

MikeFerguson.8921:

Here’s why we think this is a good thing.

As Habib alluded to in his post, we are also revising the math behind the ratings formula. Habib will be explaining the math in a later post, but for now, I can give everyone a glimpse into why we are updating the rating formula and resetting the ratings.

Over the last couple of months we’ve seen that when worlds experience dramatic changes in their ability to field a consistent fighting force for whatever reason, it can take quite a while for them to work their way through the ratings until they end up in a match that suits them better. In a lot of cases, some worlds took multiple matches to work their way through a single tier even after a series of blowouts. We really dont like that, so one of the goals for updating the math behind the ratings is to try and reduce how often we experience the repeated blowouts that can come from that sort of situation and get those teams through the rankings quicker.

We also expect that the large population changes that impacted a number of worlds and helped create a number of those type of blowouts should be much less common now that we are well past the launch period and free transfers are no longer available.

So, not only does world choice have quite a bit more meaning now that paid transfers are online, we also want to adjust how the ratings are calculated. If we redo the calculations involved with the ratings, then it’s much better to just reset the ratings and let the new formula do it’s thing instead of trying to carry the old data over from the old system and have those numbers pollute the new ratings.

In essence this gives every world a chance to start fresh now that everyone is on their ‘real’ team and will help protect against worlds in a state of flux being involved in consecutive blowouts for weeks on end in the future. For us, that means it is actually the perfect time to update the rating system and address some of the issues we’ve noticed with it since launch then reset the ratings.

If it helps, think of the last few months as the preseason games that determined the initial seedings for the season opener (to use a really generic sports metaphor that is in no way indicative of future plans).

Finally, matches are going to remain a week long. We feel that the 24 hour matches are not representative of what we consider ‘standard’ gameplay, and actually create a lot of incorrect data in the system because people play the game much differently when it’s a 24 hour match compared to a 7 day one.

I know many of you are concerned about what all this means and it might seem scary from the outside, but from our perspective this really is a great time to reset the ratings and improve how the math behind all of this works so we can benefit from more competitive matches in the future.

Hopefully this helps some of you feel a little better about why we’re doing this. We really think this is going to be better for the game in the long run, even if it may be a bit bumpy until we have a couple matches completed post-reset.

Would have been nice to see an actual fix go through! Anyway, here we are, several weeks later with no fix in sight and no red tag responses.

Long post made short: if you are too sensitive then turn off chat.

If they are trying to “troll you” after you killed them, laugh it off that you made them mad in real life over a game.

Talking and inviting into wvw is a great ability that a lot of us use for duels and to settle things like if we see hackers etc. It really helps the wvw community in general and as far as spying goes, they can always find someone from the other server to relay information to via the forums or talking on a voice chat… imho there’s probably “spies” with friends on almost every server… it’s silly to think otherwise and quite surprising that you think it makes that much of a difference.

I’ve played against most of the guilds in here on my warrior

all decent guilds, good luck recruiting guys!

/bump

I think what outweighs a few extra damage points or an extra node every once in a while is the lack of challenge for any serious wvw players on SF

The die-hard wvw players go into wvw for a good fight and a challenge; how are they supposed to get it under these conditions? If you look at the match threads, some of the larger guilds really want the server to move up. They do have pockets of good players, but how is the server as a whole supposed to get better?