Guild Wars 2

jluiz.8630:

Spirit Ritulist.9314:

What part of World vs World did you not get? this all depends on your definition of a small group and a zerg if you looking for 5vs5 action go PvP if you hate PvP go to GvG or fight clubs they have plenty small man action. I consider 10+ people a zerg WvW was never really meant for small action I mean sure it’s still very much there but I’ve seen small man groups take towers before even if you can’t take towers flip camps so the enemy has to stop what they are doing and re flip them WORLD vs WORLD is suppose to be big fights not small 5 man group vs other small 5 man group if you train your group hard enough I’m sure your 5-10 man group can take out 10-20 man group it’s not impossible numbers aren’t what wins WvW (but they sure help lol) coverage, coordination, tactics, and siege are what wins WvW this might not be all things but this is just off top of my head a well placed superior AC could easily wipe a 10 man zerg a supply trap could compeltly stop a zerg in it’s tracks due to lack of supply there is sooo much content and new content being releashed every week from traps to WvW abilities and much more WvW dieing is simply not possible.

hahahaha ^^

servers that dont win a match in many weeks will continue to die, starting with the lowest ranks and moving upwards. evolution scores don’t keep players around, winning does. PvE has more loot potential. If a server keeps out of 1st place long enough they will lose players plain and simple, and end up with a handful of queued servers where nobody really makes any difference because as soon as they log off someone takes their place.

MethaneGas.8357:

Solstice.1097:

yea we just dont need people vaguely stating so-and-so is really bad. there’s a difference between competitive trash-talking and being an kittenhole.

this match i haven’t played a whole lot, and the solo/skirmish fights I had pretty much won them all…. EXCEPT not long after reset I was playing my warrior and came across a DR condi-necro somewhere near the SW tower in… I think our own BL. That kitten necro owned my face off harder than I have ever been owned. Before I died I did /cry /sit and he let me live. True I didn’t have a ranged weapon or the right skills equipped for the fight but still my build can usually make 10 players chase me across the entire map, but this little kitten necro….. holy jebsus you rocked my world.

Do you by any chance remember the race/ guild tag?

memory is fuzzy from gettin whooped so hard but maybe a short human male? the first time he kitten d me I used vengeance and ran to the tower so the NPCs could rez me. Then i ran back out and as I started melting again I did /cry /sit as the conditions downed me, and he stopped and ran off towards vale camp.

wish i knew more… i’d like to duel him on my ele

yea we just dont need people vaguely stating so-and-so is really bad. there’s a difference between competitive trash-talking and being an kittenhole.

this match i haven’t played a whole lot, and the solo/skirmish fights I had pretty much won them all…. EXCEPT not long after reset I was playing my warrior and came across a DR condi-necro somewhere near the SW tower in… I think our own BL. That kitten necro owned my face off harder than I have ever been owned. Before I died I did /cry /sit and he let me live. True I didn’t have a ranged weapon or the right skills equipped for the fight but still my build can usually make 10 players chase me across the entire map, but this little kitten necro….. holy jebsus you rocked my world.

Gab Superstar.4059:

Solstice.1097:

DR you guys have odd peak times what gives? Hard to have a lot of good fights when we seem to be very much opposite in coverage. I’m just wondering what time zone your server is mainly in.

95% NA.

hmm… our servers must have different unemployment rates >.<

DR you guys have odd peak times what gives? Hard to have a lot of good fights when we seem to be very much opposite in coverage. I’m just wondering what time zone your server is mainly in.

So you left your spawn and thought siegerazer there wasn’t yours? lol

dreztina.4820:

Dovgan.8605:

Nuzt.7894:

dreztina.4820:

These guys made the Kzerg look like a highly skilled killing machine.

All servers have them, DR and FC included.

Stop feeding the troll. No one would have done what this person claims to have done, come onto the forums and posted it without some kind of screen shot unless it was a complete and utter nonsense.

Was never big on screenshots.

LOL you mean you’re not really into evidence. Clearly we aren’t interested in wild claims without proof. Back to the match at hand – EB looks pretty this morning

the groupf of 8 or so DR been messin around in our BL were definitely a pain to deal with i mean… thieves, mesmers, d/d eles, good lord thanks that you weren’t built to actually take much because you guys play well together.

Nuzt.7894:

Solstice.1097:

is it just me or is AR a little bit less “dead” than last week?

or maybe DR and FC are just 1v1’ing?

just a question because your “ghost town” is a little less ghostly. maybe it’s just the weekend or maybe you are gaining momentum or both?

I have no point to make, I’m just curious.

Its reset, and the weekend. Don’t get me wrong I would love to seem them stick around throughout the week. But you are correct, we are seeing some fresh faces out here. Here’s hoping we can give you both a little more fight this week.

Still having trouble fielding more then 1 BL, but its a start.

Do what you can to keep it up! I want to see AR regain some numbers. You guise have SM now and mostly your whole BL and EB. You were first in PPT for a minute.

A pleasant surprise even though you are our sworn enemy.

is it just me or is AR a little bit less “dead” than last week?

or maybe DR and FC are just 1v1’ing?

just a question because your “ghost town” is a little less ghostly. maybe it’s just the weekend or maybe you are gaining momentum or both?

I have no point to make, I’m just curious.

insanemaniac.2456:

Solstice.1097:

Because if the intention was for us to lose THAT bad then it’s insulting that they would intentionally put us in that position. I don’t see how you don’t get the point??? Match winner based on evolution and overall score “handicaps” if you will would be a pretty kitten big jump in the right direction. Like I’m a golfer who averages -10 vs one who averages par. “Ok I’ll start with 10 strokes, game on”

i dont get your point because ive learned to look past winning as the end all be all reason for wvw. i see it as a sandbox to learn to lead or follow, to face off against others, to learn teamwork and triage.

you need to accept that there is no intention with the rating system, there is no consciousness or intelligence. who is “they”?

I am not speaking just personally for myself. The comradery and culture and bettering ourselves and recruiting is what really gives me enjoyment. That is going down the toilet right now. I used to recruit people into WvW and they became very involved and interested. Now they spend 30 minutes and decide they’re never going back. We are losing people like flies back to PvE or top tier servers.

If the only way I can enjoy competitive WvW is to leave my guild and friends then I will quit. Fix it. Now. I’d rather stay.

Ynot.8397:

Solstice.1097:

NA
Lowest ranked in match: +174.931
Middle rank in match: -22.819
Highest rank in match: -161.362

This match has rank 18 holding its own against rank 14 and 10. In fact, rank 18 had a similar or better score to rank 14 for the entire matchup. Now we have a decision to make. It is that rank 18 is too lowly scored or are ranks 14 and 10 too highly scored? How could we solve this issue?! Oh yes! We can take points from the higher ranked servers and give them to the lower ranked server.

The system is working as intended and in a very logical way in this case. Point out on of the matches where the losing server loses by 100k points and gains rating if you want to show the system’s flaws. Right now I think almost everyone can agree that in your example GoM deserves every point it is earning.

By the way your numbers are very wrong. GoM is only going to gain 107ish points this week. I don’t know how you managed to come up with 174.

OH LOOK! every server that’s lowest rank is the highest evolution again! Except for the “exception” you quoted earlier where Kaineng was getting beaten by GoM. Now they’re getting beaten by ET and and HoD which is the only exception again this time.

and OH LOOK! we got AR in our match again which means we are doomed. even though we can whoop the unfortunate AR it’s a virtual 1v1 against a server we can’t match.

OH LOOK! Our population this reset is less than last week which was less than the week before’s due to the matching.

kitten this kitten kitten I could do a better job of managing WvW in my sleep. Anet pay me for my services and I will earn it back for you 10-fold. Otherwise I’ll be quitting soon if nothing changes.

insanemaniac.2456:

Solstice.1097:

insanemaniac.2456:

let me get this straight
you use this evidence to suggest gw2 is dying, after throwing in a random comment linking gaining rating to lowering morale.

i didn’t link the two other than they are both effects of the situation. it should not make sense that getting your kitten kicked, lowering your morale and population and evolving your server towards higher ranks should happen at the same time.

when we are getting destroyed by higher tiers and I see we are evolving, it’s a slap in the face. To me it’s Anet saying “we thought we had you set you up to actually do even worse than that”

why do you see it as a slap in the face when were doing better than the system expected?

consider declaring match winners from ratings evolutions instead of total points gathered. the latter is dictated by population. the former almost means something, still needs a few months though.

Because if the intention was for us to lose THAT bad then it’s insulting that they would intentionally put us in that position. I don’t see how you don’t get the point??? Match winner based on evolution and overall score “handicaps” if you will would be a pretty kitten big jump in the right direction. Like I’m a golfer who averages -10 vs one who averages par. “Ok I’ll start with 10 strokes, game on”

insanemaniac.2456:

let me get this straight
you use this evidence to suggest gw2 is dying, after throwing in a random comment linking gaining rating to lowering morale.

i didn’t link the two other than they are both effects of the situation. it should not make sense that getting your kitten kicked, lowering your morale and population and evolving your server towards higher ranks should happen at the same time.

when we are getting destroyed by higher tiers and I see we are evolving, it’s a slap in the face. To me it’s Anet saying “we thought we had you set you up to actually do even worse than that”

without any disrespect I know where things are heading and why, and I did my best to illustrate it. It’s not possible to specifically share everything I have witnessed from players speaking and reading the forums posts of other matchups etc. I tried to sum it up best i could into a post. Like it or not how I presented it, but mark my words the trend has been set and if it continues we are heading towards an overall decline in population and the remaining players transferring to top tiers, widening the gaps we all know exist.

The most important point of my post which I apologize for not including in the OP and not bold+caps’ing is: Evolution doesn’t keep players around (motivated), winning does.

except for the -10 on current match because AR’s rating is still not where it should be. When they started tanking everyone knew they would hit rock bottom but it’s taking many weeks for Anet to catch up.

Y Not you’re also on FC notice how in the last 12 matches every time we evolve it’s because we are the lowest rank? and every time we aren’t we de-evolve.

http://mos.millenium.org/servers/history/48

Anet says they are waiting a few weeks to see how things play out before they make changes, but I hope they realize that they are forcing people to A) leave wvw and B ) transfers that are making the scores they analyze all but meaningless

Ynot.8397:

Solstice.1097:

NA
Lowest ranked in match: +174.931
Middle rank in match: -22.819
Highest rank in match: -161.362

This match has rank 18 holding its own against rank 14 and 10. In fact, rank 18 had a similar or better score to rank 14 for the entire matchup. Now we have a decision to make. It is that rank 18 is too lowly scored or are ranks 14 and 10 too highly scored? How could we solve this issue?! Oh yes! We can take points from the higher ranked servers and give them to the lower ranked server.

The system is working as intended and in a very logical way in this case. Point out on of the matches where the losing server loses by 100k points and gains rating if you want to show the system’s flaws. Right now I think almost everyone can agree that in your example GoM deserves every point it is earning.

By the way your numbers are very wrong. GoM is only going to gain 107ish points this week. I don’t know how you managed to come up with 174.

I’m not talking about GoM I’m adding up all the lowest server evolutions, all the highest, etc.

Your point is based on one match mine is based on them all added together. You look at an exception and think it’s the rule?

The main reason there are exceptions is because the actual rankings are not correct where they should be due to the points I described in OP, and because due to the situation guilds and players keep transferring around, which create the “illusion” of “upsets” and that it’s working as intended. Put a “wvw population +/-” that indicates if the server has grown or declined next to the scores and you’ll see its clear why there are exceptions.

….it makes me think Anet’s goal is to force players to transfer and pay the fees. Either that or they don’t have the right people in charge.

Don’t “fix” the matching system, fix the evolution ratings. If you are in last place and it’s not reasonably close, you should de-evolve. Otherwise it’s like saying “yea you got blown away, but we thought you’d get blown away even worse so good job” ….. that is not a fair or appropriate message to send. When you lose you should be given a better chance next week to win. Evolution doesn’t keep players around… winning does.

Anet is a company run by humans like all of us (not perfect). I understand this and unlike some I am not hostile or “blaming” ….. but LOOK, IT’S BROKEN!!! We need to fix it!

I am referring to the matching system. Here’s the #1 problem – it’s killing WvW and the player base’s continued interest is declining.

I’m sure undesirable match-ups were expected to happen. Maybe we thought that would even itself out after several weeks and the evolution scores falling where they “should” land…. BUT NO that is not happening! Look at the numbers:

Here is the current combined evolution score (as of when I looked it up a couple min ago) of the servers in their matchups:

NA
Lowest ranked in match: +174.931
Middle rank in match: -22.819
Highest rank in match: -161.362

EU
Lowest ranked in match: +254.039
Middle rank in match: +106.258
Highest rank in match: -361.193

The way the matches play out, the LOSING server gets the most evolution score. What does this mean for that server?

A) they lose players and have reduced morale going into next week
combined with
B) they have a greater chance of facing higher ranked servers again

The problem compounds itself and so by the time this “sorts itself out” you will be left with about 6 over-populated servers and 18 abandoned ones.

The death of GW2 WvW is coming if something does not change. I don’t think anyone in Anet or reading this forum wants to see that.

Heed the call. If it’s being looked at but no change is planned yet, at least ANNOUNCE that it’s being looked at to give players hope and a reason to stick around.

If it has been announced please point me to the link.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Actually, one better, remove all way points from WvW (including the ones in your home base). Stop zergs from map jumping, stop zergs from flash spawning in bases and near-by camps. If they want to defend them, they can leave people there to defend them.

Replace all the way points with something different like turning all guards into champions or legendaries. WvW is a combination of PvE and PvP so make the PvE portion of it actually harder.

while the initial thought of this idea sounded great, a deeper thought revealed it would make the zerg more powerful. get a zerg together and take anything you want because theres no way the enemy can get people there in time to defend anything. sure they could leave a few people in each structure but not enough. zergs are ALREADY together. waypoints allow people to GET together quickly to try to defend against a zerg.

maybe a compromise would be limit waypoints to say…. aside from spawns, they can only be used by 6 players per minute. a 30-man would take 5 minutes to WP. a 60-man would take 10 minutes, etc. they’d have to WP to spawn and run to get there any faster. ??

Are there any plans to re-look at these mechanics?

Methinks that aside from AoE cap this is the biggest problem with the imbalance towards zergs. A smaller more skilled group can often down players in a larger group, but the zerg can flash rez their downed before even the quickest stomp has any remote chance of finishing. Can we at least limit the # of resurrectors in-combat to 1 or 2, or maybe just while a stomp is being performed? If a player is skilled enough to get them down and fast enough to immediately begin finisher and smart enough to avoid cc during it, even with these changes the player could STILL escape due a rally or warbanner or ele/thf/mes downed skill, etc. But with the current setup adding the ability to multi-rez virtually instantaneously there is really nothing the small group can do without a sieged up choke point. Even then camps are open field so they’d just get starved while massive siege builds on nearby terrain. The end result is the same no matter how hard you fight – in undermanned teams the better of a player you are simply prolongs the agony of your eventual defeat.

Rallying is a whole other issue. The current mechanic so often leads to a player new to WvW joining, and getting yelled at and exiled by his own server because he dies, rallies 5 enemy players, and swings the battle in the other team’s favor. This player is not unlikely to repeat this behavior out of spite, retaliating against those who treated him so rudely… a troll has been born. While player behavior is a contributing factor, I think fixing this system is a much simpler approach than trying to fix the behavior of your player base

I know you didn’t ask me, but here’s how I’d fix it: You only rally when downed if an enemy dies AND the damage you did to them is = or > 20% (or some X%) of their max HP.

If it’s a zerg and each of them hits a player once, probably nobody would be able to rally on his death. Conversely, if that player kept getting healed before downed, it is possible that more than 5 players dealt enough damage to rally on his death (unlikely there would be that many downed at the time though). This also helps balance away from zerg-favor, because zergs have a ton of AoE healing so the bigger the group your enemy was in, the more of your players that will have a chance to rally on his death.

A fix like this could mean:
—the more you outnumber your opponents by, the less likely you can expect to rally on killing them
—the smaller your opponent’s group is, the more likely you can expect them to rally on killing you
—in a large group you will for once have to fear actually getting finished when you get downed
—in a smaller group vs zerg you actually have a chance (if you’re fast and skilled) to finish a downed enemy

Sagramor.7395:

If you’re on a lower pop/tier server there’s a lot less ZvZ and a lot more skirmishing.

^^^This. I suggest you transfer to Ferguson’s Crossing. At any given reasonable hour usually 1 map will have a zerg, another map will have a modest group maybe 5-15, and the other 2 maps will be pretty much just roamers. You can find about any style of play you’re looking for. You will never see 4 maps full of zergs.

PM me if interested we have some fantastic guilds that would be more than welcoming.

We at FC should be closer in competition with SF right now but our morale is still hurting from last week’s match vs DH and IoJ. Between DH’s massive zerging in NA prime and IoJ’s massive oceanic coverage, a lot of players were discouraged from WvW. Add to the mix AR’s unfortunate situation where SF can cap and keep AR’s stuff quicker than we can, and since AR can’t really put any pressure on SF it makes it really hard for us get any good opportunities to hit anything that’s naturally green. Any time even 5-10 of us hit SF BL, it doesn’t take but maybe 10 minutes for a 30+ zerg to come tell us to gtfo.

We have been slowly but surely evolving the past 2-3 months and I just hope the matching system gets updated before it encourages more guilds transferring around servers. So far we’ve only lost 1 guild I know of but the growth of our current guilds seems to have offset that loss…. for now.

Anyway back to work – see you all in WvW tonight!

DH: sure it’s ultimately Anet’s bad matchup to blame, but looks to me like IoJ > DH. Neck and neck in points despite all the FC farming you do? Props to IoJ.

“IoJ and FC teaming up”?? lol really you’re the one hanging on by using FC’s points to keep you in the lead. when I logged on you had three 30 man zergs hitting FC at mendon’s, bay, and hills simultaneously. I wouldn’t be surprised if FC didn’t even had 30 people defending all areas combined. (you made 1/2 of them leave til reset by consta-farming them).

DH I hope you get to experience your equivalent of this matchup and face Maguuma next. I will be extremely interested to see how that goes.

These are ideas I would like to share. 5 of them I would think would be easy to implement, and 4 more that might be a little tougher.

1. Here’s a no-brainer: allow commanders to choose the COLOR of their tag. An incredibly simple way to improve coordination. Almost nobody uses the squad feature. I’ve actually never seen it even mentioned in-game that I can recall.

2. Allow commanders to “lock” a structure from anyone being able to upgrade it for X amount of time. Can’t tell you how many times we’ve been prepping for an attack and someone starts a freakin’ upgrade and leaves us without supply to defend. Take it a step further and allow a “lock” on supply withdrawal. Can’t tell you how many times an upgrade was about to finish and random players drain the supply and the upgrade doesn’t finish at a crucial moment. Only a commander with his/her tag active would be able to use these features, and only one structure per map can be locked at any given time.

3. Dolyak speed buff – instead of increased supply deliveries, increase the Dolyak movement speed. This will really help the outnumbered servers defend against times that a larger server is repeatedly circle-flipping their stuff. A larger server may run up and flip a corner of EB, except the keep, in 20 minutes and move on – then once they see that corner flipped back they just repeat the cycle because there’s no way anything could have been upgraded or sieged up to any effective level in such a short amount of time. They should have to stay and DEFEND those areas if they want to hold them.

4. Allow supplies to be taken from a Dolyak in transit. This might need a limit of only 50% of the supplies can be taken or some other safeguard, but there are supplies on that Dolyak, why can’t I have them? At least then if it’s going to die or is running towards a tower that’s being sieged, I can try and grab a few supply off it before it’s too late.

5. Allow supplies to be able to be collected from killing siege equipment. Allow supplies to be looted from dead players that were carrying supply. Maybe its only 1-2 supply you get, and that player doesn’t actually lose theirs, but again would really help the outnumbered servers more than the bigger ones who already have tons of supply in their fully upgraded structures. Maybe this becomes part of the Outnumbered buff – ‘chance to gain supply on kill’

6. Fix the way downed players get rez’ed. Maybe only 1 resurrector allowed while in combat. Larger zergs’ biggest advantage over smaller groups is that they can keep picking up all their downed before anyone gets stomped. If you start to stomp someone as SOON as they go down, they should not be able to rez them before the stomp – they would have to stun you or something to prevent it while they rez. Maybe a separate way to fix this would be “stomping” speed increases the more outnumbered you are, or maybe if you get downed while surrounded by a ton of allies, you get “trampled” These might not be the best ideas but fixing downed state is the biggest way to fix the imbalance of huge zergs vs smaller ones. The larger zerg still has the advantage of higher DPS output and the AoE cap of 5 and more supply to flash-build siege, do they really need the benefit of insta-rezzing downed players? The small group had to work had to get those players down, they earned at least a chance at a kill.

7. A new siege item that costs 10 supply to deploy, has the range of a cata but a higher arc to it and does the damage to siege of that of a ballista. Lasts 60 seconds and can only be deployed while “outnumbered” If you outnumber them so much, you have the people to defend and shouldn’t get to rely on siege as much as the smaller server. In 60 seconds you can hopefully take out a few pieces of siege and improve your odds.

8. Temporary waypoint. Costs 50 supply to build, lasts 10 minutes, cannot be built within 2000 range of an enemy structure, limit 10 players per minute that can use it, visible to enemies (not on map) but not destructible until timer runs out – or until a structure within 2000 flips to enemy control at which point it would become contested. Player per minute cap on this favors it towards smaller, smarter groups.

9. Vision portal. 2 items. 1 item you drop a portal and build it with supply, lasts 20 minutes. Item 2 is a ‘crystal ball’ that is in your inventory and using it allows you to see the map where you dropped the portal, without actually moving your character there. Once the portal is over the crystal ball is ‘junk’