Guild Wars 2

Wait you are talking about “high level PvP” and people who can’t afford skill points in the same point?

The amount of time spent debating on this thread could have probably earned you enough skill points to unlock the traits youre talking about.

on foefire and khylo anyone that isn’t a bruiser/tank should have an escort. if enemy has thf/mes then you might even want to escort a bruiser/tank

on temple and forest it’s not so much “escorting” as it is watching the middle/crossing. just have to watch out for stealthed people.

the difference here is on temple and forest the path the enemy takes to your home point is also a path you can take to mid/far, where on foefire and khylo it is not, so it’s more of a true escort.

i realize it’s slightly off-topic but its an important distinction imo

If you want to try out meta builds how about start with the ones that don’t require unlocks, and in trying those out you will earn tomes/scrolls/level ups and gold, allowing you to unlock things if you need to for other builds.

It is a silly design and doesn’t make sense, I agree, but it’s not a complicated or difficult thing to get around.

The season is long enough that if the MMR system is designed well, everyone should be able to play enough games to reach their appropriate position on the LB.

If 8 weeks isn’t enough time for people to find their appropriate place on the LB, then the LB is broken.

+1 while there are plenty of rarely used things that actually can be viable, there are still wayyy too many “options” that are really not options at all, because they flat out suck.

Why can’t they just add 15 seconds to the timer of accepting queue (to account for loading screens etc) and shave those extra 15 seconds off the “waiting for players” section of the match?

10% reduced damage is not exactly a “fun” nerf nor does it introduce any new sort of counterplay.

giving it counter play would be something like “25% reduced damage if hitting a target in the font” so to do full damage htey have to hit you from back/side. This would allow counterplay to get in their face while they try to keep you kited.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PSA-Off-season-Ladder-Starts-Saturday/first#post4720213

Justin ODell.9517:

Solstice.1097:

tichorum.2415:

So we had a test season. Now we’re having an “off-season”. What exactly is the difference?

the test season had rewards. the off-season is just a leaderboard for our own enjoyment (those of us who care).

at least that’s my take

Basically this. After we look at the data we may change some things, without notice, just to watch how the resulting data changes.

Harvest it definitely does appear that you made a mistaken assumption and while that is unfortunate it doesn’t mean you have a valid complaint against Anet, who in no way indicated there would be rewards, and in fact actually stated there wouldn’t be any.

it would be sorta awkward to get rewarded for an off-season where rules and leaderboard were being modified throughout.

“what did you win at?” long story….

condi necro is weak because it is OP and the meta is build around countering it.

lol…. XD

Starts tomorrow!? kitten I better git gud fast.

that sucks… but a couple forward rolls of your mouse wheel (slight zoom in) should fix that.

Necros are not as much of a counter to the cele meta as people are saying. It is true that in 1v1 fights against cele bruisers, terror necro is probably the best if it’s a forced fight to the death, but the thing is that it’s not a forced fight to the death. All 3 cele bruisers are much faster than terror necro and can just rotate around him.

D/D ele is going to push your close point. Are you saying that you send your necro to defend it? The ele can just force the necro out of the team fight and back to close, then the ele has FGS lightning flash RTL burning speed and perma swiftness – they will get back to the mid fight and +1 before the necro can. The ele took the necro out of the fight without even fighting him.

The necro has a wurm for port but compare the CD on that to the overall mobility of FGS, RTL, perma swift, burning speed, and lightning flash.

A shoutbow can do this too with low CD sword leap and perma swift. An engi can do this too, maybe a little slower, but can drop CCs behind him to slow the necro.

The necro is just too easy to play around him. You need a bruiser class that can not only handle the 1v1 but also keep up in speed. The necro belongs in the team fight where he will undoubtedly get focused by the enemy, and the enemy comp has so many CC’s and AoE sustain that unless your team has some heavy coordinated burst your necro is going to die before anyone on the other team does.

This is all assuming completely equal skill. Many examples people give are just examples of person A outplaying person B and that means nothing as far as balance goes.

So really the necro is just good for a coordinated burst in a team fight against an enemy with lots of boons. (what this means is any other situation, another class would probably perform better). And this is a little too specific of a role for a class’ viability.

I haven’t played a lot of Necromancer, but I think I have a solid idea to balance them out a little better.

Gain unlimited vigor while low on Life Force. Threshold to trigger: 15% (45 sec CD on re-application)

I’ve noticed when a necro dies once, it can cripple them for the rest of the game because they are re-entering into an outnumbered fight without any life force – they often just get bursted right back down before they had a chance to build any up! Some simple vigor might help them build up at least 15% life force more easily.

eyestrain.3056:

I don’t see stability show up after the immune message if that’s what it is.

Maybe it’s bugged and only gave them 1 stack which was removed by your fear.

ive just been doing the unofficial jumping puzzle. i can get to above and behind the Lord NPCs, starting from stairs by the waypoint and vendors.

i have seen people win 1v2 and almost win 1v3 fights on point with necro life-force/death shroud build, yet I have yet to see anyone play it in a tournament.

why is the tanky DS build not viable? serious question because necro is the class I’ve played the LEAST of any

combat log bugged. ranger bleeds are strong though.

gesho.9468:

i stayed away, i cleansed one boatload but when i get hit with 77 bleeds over 20 sec fight, i am not sure how i am supposed to survive.

http://i.imgur.com/KaNu6Qf.jpg

as a mesmer how did you even cleanse a “boatload” of conditions?

Lol if I somehow “knew” what the next new meta build will be, and I said it right here right now that X build is viable, the same people would say no it isn’t Y is better.

until a top player used it and then they would all be like “yea it’s meta ofc”

Rome.7124:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

jportell.2197:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

warriors could really use a master tier new trait that reduces stances recharge time by 20% ..

No

ah hi there jportell, i can see that you are still around here.

and why not?

since berzerker stance will be nerfed (replaced with resistance boon) and stability is already nerfed as well, plus the new revenant profession will be able to strip boons very easily, it only make sense to reduce the recharge time of stances.

plus balanced stance is still not a true stance since it only give boons one shot.

sorry, but Mesmers need way more help than warriors to be viable in top tiers, and so does Necro.

Mesmers aren’t too bad. What they need is for bunkers to return to the meta. Mesmers are the best anti-bunker IMO, but there are no bunkers right now, so Mesmers aren’t really needed.

Also, they have a little TOO much trouble vs thieves. I think consume plasma should be nerfed. But it’s very rare to see thief vs mesmer where the outcome is based purely on builds – usually the better player wins that fight.

Tao.5096:

For whole past year, all Anet does is nerf Power damage and buff Condition damage.

Condition Wars 2.

So much for balance and brains.

must have a different view than from where I’m sitting.

Wait… quick question. Probably a dumb one but:

The stability pulses are not stun breaks, right? So if you strip stability and then hit the lich with a 3 second knockback RIGHT before his next stability pulses, he will still stay knocked down the full 3 seconds right?

BurrTheKing.8571:

Once players discover a build that does a particular role better than any of the alternatives, they’re going to use it till a better option is found.

This. All it takes is for one top player to swap out a utility and use it effectively and BAM! it’s now “meta” That’s what I mean – the meta is not a real thing in and of itself, it’s determined by the player’s themselves. Players don’t play builds because they are “meta” – the builds are “meta” because players play them. It’s easy to get that backwards.

What I am really getting at with this topic is if you see someone on your team with a unique build you shouldn’t flame and shame them and get all upset about it. This happens too much. Some of these “unusual” builds will really surprise you but if you just give up from the start or assume the player is bad, then you aren’t even giving them a fair chance to prove their viability (because you aren’t supporting them as a teammate).

The meta is a comfortable place to fall back on, but it isn’t the end-all for viability of builds.

I always just LOS the lich. He doesn’t hit me.

The only exception is Legacy at mid point. Not much LOS available there. Then its dodge, dodge, blind my way safely towards some terrain.

It’s not a smart move to stand on the point and let Lich kill you. GTFO even if it loses the cap. Unless you’re ticking like 495 and its your only point or some special circumstance.

I agree it never made much sense that some elites were countered so hard and so easily. Seems like now it’s more like it was always intended to be.

runeblade.7514:

ronpierce.2760:

runeblade.7514:

ronpierce.2760:

runeblade.7514:

I disagree.

ANet should just revert the stability change. Its dumb.

I disagree here. I like it. Makes more sense, too. But the balance of applications needs looked at.

It has almost no effect in sPvP. But in WvW, it turned from an organized melee train into a ranged AoE fest.

Since it has no effect in sPvP, and ranged AoE fest is boring, might as well revert it.

“Organized melee train”, aka safe zerg fest. Yeah, good riddance. Sorry man, no support. That stuff needed broken up a bit.

Maybe because you don’t hear about bigger blobs destroying small groups no matter how skilled they are is because you don’t support. Maybe you don’t hear about groups ranging from afar being the meta is why you don’t support. Maybe you don’t hear about ranged groups existing with the organized melee train pre-patch is why you don’t support. Maybe you dislike real strategy and tactics is why you don’t support.

Organized melee train is far from safe. It requires rushing through a hail of Meteor showers, Barrage, frozen ground, and every AoE you can think of. It requires keeping everyone healthy with water fields and condi removal to get them ready to go. They are the foot soldiers in a war.

But, maybe you just like ranging from afar in a “safe zerg fest.” Which is why you don’t support.

not sure what you are saying, but guardians and warriors made up about 50% of organized zergs pre-patch.

I also disagree. How many times do we see a top-tier player just…. switch builds to something different? And then they win, and it becomes meta, even though nothing was patched or changed. The build did not become stronger, just more popular. META = popular but not every viable build is going to be popular when there are so many builds and so few top players.

Also top players like to stick to meta builds because teams shift around a lot, and it’s a lot easier to adapt into new teams when your build is familiar already.

The thing is it takes a lot of effort and practice and studying to reach a build’s potential, and very few people do it on their own – most people just copy.

annoying but doesnt ruin game. should be fixed though. bugs need to be a higher priority.

Hachiman.2470:

Well you stated it before, if you replace thief with this then you are losing the mobility. While GS is good mobility, its not close to the mobility of thief, especially after the changes they’ve made to porting. I agree with some of your argument in that more options need to be available but I doubt this type of build would be one that is as viable as current warrior builds. Not to say that other professions can’t have builds that may become or are viable but the example as a replacement for warrior meta fell short.

It’s situational like pretty much everything else. Certain matchups it might fall a bit short and other matchups it will really shine and kick kitten . The classes that shut down thieves would have trouble against this warrior.

the only issue PvP has is that not enough of GW2’s player base is interested in PvP.

That is the ONLY issue that needs to be addressed. If this issue was fixed, then Anet would devote a lot more resources to PvP and fix all the other issues we’ve been griping about for so long.

So… if you have issues with PvP in its current state, like I do, then we need to think of ways we can draw in players from PvE and WvW, and ways to NOT push people away that are trying out the mode, etc.

Ideas below plz go.

Dirame.8521:

Solstice.1097:

The competitive tier of players in this game is small. The number of builds is huge. There are lots of builds that are 100% viable in top-tier play that we have not SEEN in top tier play yet.

There are an incredibly amount of build options in this game. Your class, weapons, amulet, sigils, runes, traits, heal, utilities, and elite combine to make billions of possibilities. The top tier of players, however, is maybe a couple dozen of each class at best. They can prove that certain builds ARE good, but it’s much too small a group to prove that other builds AREN’T good.

.

Your first few paragraphs and title make this topic sound like it was touching a hot button issue in the community but then I noticed it was actually all about you from the beginning.

All that potential….. wasted.

lol wut? i shouldn’t have stated the example was my idea then… i should have just said here is an example like something i’ve seen work. the point did need an example though so you’re just nit-picking.

pop 5 CC’s to remove stability, or wait and actually have those 5 CC’s LAND on the person?

duh….

#SavetheGolems

Trevor Boyer.6524:

You guys are missing the point here

The point is that D/D Cele Ele is already the best spec vs. condi DPS and now it also is the best spec vs. physical CC bursting. It is an even stronger meta now than it was before the patch.

i think 5 stacks is enough and anything more is just going to be wasted 99% of the time unless we’re talking about lich or rampage or something big.

Hachiman.2470:

Solstice.1097:

choucs.4507:

You really think no one has ever tried defiance stance chain invulnerability with double endure pain and shield?…:|

i just dont think anyone ever considered it meta, and that people would call it stupid if you tried it because it isn’t meta, and that’s stupid. lol XD

I agree that people calling it stupid that you tried it because it isn’t meta is stupid but as choucs said, plenty have tried the defiance stance chain/endure pain shield route and it just isn’t really viable. So you can’t take dmg for awhile, you’re also not dishing out much damage or providing support. This is a very selfish build but I’m sure it would work decently in solo q.

idk thief is a selfish role usually and this would basically be a replacement. thief does have some support in SR but what else really? Warrior hard-rezzing with defiant stance? CLEAVE MORE PLZ!

choucs.4507:

You really think no one has ever tried defiance stance chain invulnerability with double endure pain and shield?…:|

i just dont think anyone ever considered it meta, and that people would call it stupid if you tried it because it isn’t meta, and that’s stupid. lol XD

SobeSoul.6910:

You still have to worry about what you’re trading off with using builds like the warrior build. Things like that don’t have much team support. You can stray away from meta builds, but you cannot stray too far away from roles meta builds encompass.

For instance if the standard comp is Shoutbow, Ele, Engie, 2 DPS. Then that warrior would either be taking up a DPS spot or you’re giving up some team support.

so let’s say this warrior build replaced a thief. just as fast. not as sneaky, but can stand for up to 25 seconds tanking on a node invulnerably…. a thief can’t just burst freely like that.

this is kind of a dumb conversation because it’s still going to be WAY more efficient to wait out the stability and then blow them up instead of wasting all your CC cooldowns removing stacks…..

choucs.4507:

Laraley.7695:

choucs.4507:

Laraley.7695:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Everything in the patch is fantastic except for obvious problems in the new stability system, mainly concerning Celestial D/D Eles and Armor Of Earth.

Please read:

First I’d like to say that the idea behind intensity stacking for stability is a great idea and I support this change as I can see how this will lead to more in-depth dynamic for spvp team compositions and engagements. Secondly I’d like to abruptly and bluntly point out that the execution of this change has been done poorly in the aspect of how much or how little stability intensity has been granted to certain skills/classes. I’ll be honest with you, when I read that Armor Of Earth was granted 10 stacks of intensity as compared to Balanced Stance or Stand Your Ground only being granted 5 stacks of intensity, I wondered if it was an April Fool’s Joke. I do not mean this as an insult towards a-net but rather in all seriousness, I have to ask you to please “quickly” patch Armor Of Earth and lower it’s level of stability intensity stacking. If you do not, you will be allowing the Celestial D/D Ele to push even more builds out of viable meta than it already has.

Cele D/D Ele was already considered as an optimized point holder/peeler with good DPS and the ability to seal in stomps while being difficult to push off points. By granting it superior stability to even the heavies “due to it’s very frequent Armor Of Earth procs”, you are eliminating the entire purpose of heavies in spvp. You will see the disappearance of Shoutbows or any other Warrior spec for that matter. Even Guardians will become an endangered species. Do I really need to explain to the balance team why this is going to happen? Let’s hope not. Furthermore, it is ridiculous that Celestial D/D Ele was already the strongest spec in the game vs. condi DPS but now it also the most resilient vs. physical CC bursting?

There are other smaller problems with the allocations of stability intensity amongst the other classes but Armor Of Earth being granted 10 stacks is a gross error and I sincerely hope it gets patched as soon as possible.

Please tell me how armour of earth is superior to dolyak signet, I beg you. Seriously, should ele have 5 stacks on 75 sec cd while dolyak signet it 10 stacks on 60 sec cooldown AND has longer duration. These posts, wow.

Protection.

15second

Since when does Armour of Earth give you 15 seconds protection? Not even mentioning, you get a passive benefit from dolyak.

i was going to say 15 characters, so my post wouldn’t be too short to post but ok.

and it’s funny you compared the passive toughness to protection…i guess you just don’t know either of these two classes..

can’t really say the cooldown is lower AND you get passive toughness.

those are not both 2 separate benefits – they are 1 combined benefit, because they can never exist at the same time.

SobeSoul.6910:

That warrior build is just another build with some changes. And you’re missing 2 trait points. If you create a build yourself it is 100% likely it will just be a variation of an older build.

yea but who cares? the point is these builds are not considered meta and I’m saying it’s only because none of the small group of elite players play it, and it’s NOT because it isn’t viable.

The competitive tier of players in this game is small. The number of builds is huge. There are lots of builds that are 100% viable in top-tier play that we have not SEEN in top tier play yet.

There are an incredibly amount of build options in this game. Your class, weapons, amulet, sigils, runes, traits, heal, utilities, and elite combine to make billions of possibilities. The top tier of players, however, is maybe a couple dozen of each class at best. They can prove that certain builds ARE good, but it’s much too small a group to prove that other builds AREN’T good.

When I say top-tier player I mean someone on a team of other top-tier players. Solo people never really influence the meta.

An issue I do see, though is that people who like to invent their own builds and almost refuse to play a build they didn’t come up with themselves… well these people tend to be.. to put it plainly without judging – people who tend to not stick around on a team for long. Personality conflicts it often seems…. but what do I know lol XD

For example I saw a similar build to this and came up with an idea that I think could be perfectly viable but we never see, if someone took the time to really master it and had a good team surrounding them. If I played it, though, people would rage at me, unless I was on a top team winning with it, then it would become part of the meta…..

Berserker amulet warrior, GS axe/shield, runes of vampirism, sigils of intelligence, energy, force, and doom, 2/0/6/0/4 traited for stances with defy pain, cleansing ire, dogged march, restorative strength, destruction of the empowered, vigorous return. Healing skill is DEFIANT STANCE wut…. yep that’s right. Balanced and berserker stance and endure pain with either Rampage or SoR elite….

This build has HUGE dps bursts, HUGE mobility, and incredible escape. The thing is, you get this guy to 25% and defy pain activates for 5 seconds and gives him vigor. After 5 seconds he dodges and pops endure pain for another 5 sec invuln plus vigor. After 5 seconds he dodges again and can use shield block if he wants more invuln, otherwise he can pop his defiant stance heal, and have another 3.75 sec invulnerability + all dmg is healing + vigor. More dodges. You land some hits? Get him to 10% and he goes into MIST FORM! Have you survived 25+ seconds of invulnerable berserker GS axe/shield warrior? I hope so, because pretty soon all his CDs will be ready again. IMO it’s as scary as any meta build. Like a thief that traded stealth for invulnerability.

Lordrosicky.5813:

laquito.5269:

They haven’t changed the on point fightability of any class, so what you’re saying is complete bullkitten. How many teams still run Mesmer + Thief combo? Pretty much only 55HP Monks and there are also a couple of teams that don’t utilize thief mobility at all.

Some people’s hate for thief is ridiculous.

Yeh because what the 25 dudes who take thjs game seriously as teams really matters as to what is good or not. Hint, nah it doesnt

it matters a bit – it does prove certain things are good. what it doesn’t prove, however, is that other things are bad. there are plenty of viable builds that aren’t being run in competitive play simply because the competitive scene really is not that big, and also when teams don’t stick together for long it becomes easier to adapt to playing with new players if you already know what build they are running, so that helps perpetuate the meta as well.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Also…

Chukree.1756:

I thought this was a port nerf patch intended for how OP thief and Mesmer are combined in conquest?

And their OPness is why the thief/mesmer combo has been pushed out of the meta by the celestial meta right…?

the only reason celestial pushed mesmers further from the meta is because mesmers are great at bursting down bunkers, but they aren’t great against bruisers. The bunker meta was not a bad place for mesmers because bunkers don’t put out any pressure, allowing the mesmer to boon strip and burst heavily. After celestial amulet was released, bruisers replaced the traditional bunkers, and bruisers can put out enough pressure to force mesmers to back off and burst much more cautiously… so the fights last longer, and that’s not a good thing for a mesmer because A) their skills have long CDs they can’t fight on point very well, and C) course conditions by nature have a bigger impact in longer fights, and mesmer has arguably the worst access to condi removal in the game.

skill is fine.

CD might be a little too low.

litany is countered by blocks/invuln/blinds etc while shelter is only countered by a few specific skills. for this reason, a well used shelter wins.

Pvprod.7031:

Just want to say this game in regard to pvp is really good like just the way they allow people to be on par gear wise with all players… trying to learn on other games when everyone else has far better gear and obviously more skill is just impossible.

Not sure if i’m allowed to post images yet on forum but i have attached one… what you guys think of my necro? Pretty good considering he’s in starter gear? :P

lol new players are cute. I don’t mean that in a disrespectful way at all. welcome! i agree that pvp in all games should not be a gear grind! pvp is supposed to be about skill! as far as your necro looks…. there are literally thousands of skins in this game and hundreds more dyes to color each piece so…. just make it the way you like it!

One of the biggest challenges with matchmaking in this game is the fact that a weak player’s negative influence on a match is bigger than a strong player’s positive influence. This is further exacerbated by the rally mechanic. It is far more common for team fights to be single-handedly lost by a player than to be single-handedly won by a player.

In short, conquest is designed around team play, but MMR and matchmaking are designed around the individual.

in a 1v1 if the enemy gets ooc so do you