Guild Wars 2

If you don’t know why your team lost then you have to improve your full map awareness in game. WHen you’re in an intense fight at mid I know it’s hard at first to fight effectively AND pay attention to what’s happening elsewhere, but with some practice it becomes second nature. Things like you are fighting 1v1 at mid and just noticed your ally died 1v2 at far, so you call out inc mid because you know you’re about to get 1v2 or 1v3’d and you’re going to need help. You don’t wait until you are 1v2 or 1v3 to call for help because then it’s too late. If you don’t get help because your team is 3v1 on a bunker engi at your home, then you’ll know you’re losing because your team is rotating very poorly (fighting outnumbered at far, not rotating to mid, wasting too much time on the engi, etc).

those are just examples but back to my point if you don’t know why you lost then you are probably only paying attention to the battle you are in and not the entire map.

If boon removal skills also prevented that boon from re-applying for a duration they would be much more effective. Like if I strip an ele’s might he is immune to having might re-applied to him for 5 seconds or so. this would not apply to stability or aegis because that would be too much. We’d start seeing more necros and mesmers again, which will lead to fewer engis/eles.

One single zone that is open PvP would be great. Like WvW but nobody is on your team. It would be basically a totally different game mode.

Problem is, we don’t have enough population to support the current game mode, let alone split the population into even more segments.

I was on bunker guardian at the time. The only thing I could have ‘left behind’ would be a symbol but that would have disappeared long before the 15 sec timer was up.

It was on foefire and I died at mid point, it wasn’t like defending the boss or something near spawn.

pdavis.8031:

Solstice.1097:

pdavis.8031:

Justin ODell.9517:

Try to look at it from the eyes of a beginner guys.

The NPCs award points, and give you a buff. Who wouldn’t want that?

It takes a higher level of understanding of the both the map and conquest mechanics to get that securing mid is important.

How would you guys suggest we go about teaching this to players?

You don’t. Did Anet provide instructions for dungeons? Tips and tricks to beat Lupi? Did you give a list of boss mechanics and how to counter them? No.

Teaching boss/map mechanics should not be taught be Anet at all, whether through pop up tips, or instructables. That burden falls on the players. If someone is interested in learning how the map works, then it’s up to them to seek out other players that will teach them. I know there are guilds that do PvP training and instruction. Just like Dungeon teaching guilds, and WvW teaching guilds.

Anything designed to teach players about a certain map, or boss mechanics put in place by Anet will be viewed as “dumbing down the game”. And it will in fact be just that. Can you imagine, doing your first Arah run, and when you approach Lupi in all his glory, a little cinematic plays and says “watch out for when Lupi raises his hand!” And a little pop up window comes up saying “don’t let him eat the grubs, and dodge the red circles!” Yeah not so much.

this is way off-base. putting a tutorial in-game is not the same as dumbing the game down. we aren’t some secret society hording knowledge for our own exclusivity. that attitude does not belong anywhere near pvp.

There is a difference between a tutorial and walking through specific map mechanics. A PvP turtorial would be more along the lines of: This is how the stats work, what the amulets are, how gear, traits, and objectives work. A walkthrough would be more like: On this map, (say skyhammer) your team needs to control the skyhammer in order to win. Defend Skyhammer at all costs. Also there are certain parts of the floor that look like this (shows picture) If you stand on them for too long they break and you fall through. Don’t forget about the jumping boosters! (shows picture) these will allow to to jump much higher and reach the upper levels where you can gain a significant advantage. For this map, stability and knock backs are going to be vital, so make sure you have some of those available, remember Fear is your friend.

I am not saying we should hold back knowledge at all. If someone comes on and doesn’t know how a certain map works it’s up to the player to ask and to learn. Most people will gladly help out and teach if asked. But that burden is, and should be, on the players. Again, it’s not like Anet gives us any tutorials on dungeons, and specific boss mechanics. If a new player wants to run the dungeon, and learn how to beat the boss, there are plently of people more then willing to teach.

If Anet agrees with you that it’s the player base’s responsibility to teach even basic knowledge of how PvP works, then the least they should do is include an in-game link to the appropriate forum topic/place to actually get help from the player base.

I’m not saying spoon-feed all info to players is necessary, but making the information easily accessible through the in-game UI is the least that should be done.

a couple of times I have noticed upon respawning I was still in combat. i know this because my movement speed was very slow and my weapon swap activated my sigils.

i was wondering what causes this. my guess is because I had called target on an enemy while I was downed, and still somehow had them targeted when I respawned??? would this keep me in combat even halfway across the map?

pdavis.8031:

Justin ODell.9517:

Try to look at it from the eyes of a beginner guys.

The NPCs award points, and give you a buff. Who wouldn’t want that?

It takes a higher level of understanding of the both the map and conquest mechanics to get that securing mid is important.

How would you guys suggest we go about teaching this to players?

You don’t. Did Anet provide instructions for dungeons? Tips and tricks to beat Lupi? Did you give a list of boss mechanics and how to counter them? No.

Teaching boss/map mechanics should not be taught be Anet at all, whether through pop up tips, or instructables. That burden falls on the players. If someone is interested in learning how the map works, then it’s up to them to seek out other players that will teach them. I know there are guilds that do PvP training and instruction. Just like Dungeon teaching guilds, and WvW teaching guilds.

Anything designed to teach players about a certain map, or boss mechanics put in place by Anet will be viewed as “dumbing down the game”. And it will in fact be just that. Can you imagine, doing your first Arah run, and when you approach Lupi in all his glory, a little cinematic plays and says “watch out for when Lupi raises his hand!” And a little pop up window comes up saying “don’t let him eat the grubs, and dodge the red circles!” Yeah not so much.

this is way off-base. putting a tutorial in-game is not the same as dumbing the game down. we aren’t some secret society hording knowledge for our own exclusivity. that attitude does not belong anywhere near pvp.

there are no ‘S’ because S says should be nerfed “quite hard”

even if celestial ele/eng are a bit too stronk, it only needs a careful, gentle nerf to bring it in line.

InfamousBrad.5879:

I guess I am one of those noobs, I had nothing to do with sPvP until the new monthly reward system. But my impression of that map was that optimum strategy was to send three to mid, and two to beast on their way to home, so that the team that’s grabbing and defending mid has the buff, so that they’re not fighting enemies who are buffed when they’re not. It delays the points from owning home for a few seconds, but I thought it was worth it because it made it easier to hold mid. Where was I wrong? Is the buff that minor?

the buff is very minor when compared to effective point rotation and favorable numbers in each fight. the monster should be killed for points, not buff, which means after a team fight was won, or if it’s late-game and the score is close, or if you’re losing and desperate to comeback. Or if you see the enemy trying to kill it.

none
ele/engi
thief/mes/war/guard
necro/ranger

?

Justin ODell.9517:

Wonderly.1324:

I kind of see where Solstice is coming from. Dishonor is necessary if there is at least even one pug member, but it can be argued that the system should always be disabled for full teams of five because it is not necessary. After all, if you rage quit on your friends (or even if you constantly d/c on them) that’ll act as it’s own dishonor system (no one will want to q with you anymore).

I see it too, but desertions on the other team will hurt as well if we decide to ignore the results when the losing team has desertions. I could easily see some group of players purposely leaving to deny the other team a win.

Maybe denying points due to an enemy dc’ing should be re-thunk.

FrownyClown.8402:

Justin ODell.9517:

mistsim.2748:

hey Justin, anything in the works to prevent 3 rangers on one team vs. none on the other, or 2 engies + 2 necros vs. none of either on the other team type stuff from happening? i.e. better prof distribution. this is by far the greatest flaw of the matchmaker atm, because not ever prof can fill every role well. for example, a team with 2 thieves and 2 power rangers have no point presence, usually results in loss. stuff like that. and will the matchmaker ever be intelligent enough to look at the spec as well?

There already is something in place, it’s just being overwhelmed. We also had to lower the enforcement of duplicate professions because it was overshadowing party size scoring.

By spec do you mean build? We considered adding amulet as a matchmaking variable, but since we want people to be able to change builds in that pre-game window we decided against it.

Most don’t change in unranked. Maybe it should be added as a factor for unranked but not ranked.

player behavior changes over time. the system must be designed based on what it allows and not only what is currently being used within those allowances.

Would it ever be feasible/possible to queue on multiple of your toons at once? Let’s say I want to queue but I’m flexible and I’ll play guard, war, ele, or thief. I’d like to queue as all of them at once – with the profession consideration of the queue and the fact that each class has different MMRs, this would greatly increase the chances of a very balanced match and a short queue.

And separately what about a ‘random’ profession option? If you are skilled enough to play all professions (and you have one of each at least) then you could choose random profession. the enemy team would see a ? by your name until the first time they actually visibly saw you in the match.

Lettuce.2945:

Shockwave.1230:

Lettuce.2945:

Phantaram’s a pretty funny guy. Makes an entire thread about shaving ele down which includes fixing the lighting whip exploit. Wins WTS in Beijing. Defends against his own suggested nerf.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/balance/Suggestions-to-shave-DD-ele-into-balance/first#post4582911

If you’ve been reading, Phantaram is not defending against nerfing the lighting whip stow. He’s simply saying it’s not a bug or exploit, which I expand on above. We all want lw stow nerfed, even top tier players and that includes Phantaram.

Saying it’s not a bug when it clearly is is defending it. He’s well aware of the advantage it gives and exploits it despite saying it should be nerfed. That’s a bit hypocritical to me and a bit un E esportsmanshiplike. Har har.

has he said that since after Anet stated it was not intended?

i had 3 guardians in 2 games in a row yesterday.

the enemy didnt have one.

im guessing swapping a guard for one of the enemy team’s players would have thrown off the MMR variance. (enemy was not pre-made)

SlothBear.9846:

Is the fix in the Tuesday patch?

pretty sure that was stated yes.

stow weapon would wait until after the cast if cancellation was not intended.

its just the signet of restoration proc from lightning whip that was unintended use.

Justin ODell.9517:

Urejt.5648:

yea, arenanet is trying to make system, while blizzard is doing it.
1. Blizzard does not allow 4 premades vs 2 soloquers.
2. Current gw2 dezert system puts 1 min ban on ranked, while blizzard give 20 min ban becouse player is forced to play full unranked game.

1. Their wording suggests they do the same thing we do. That is, they will try to avoid matching premades and soloers, but will if certain conditions are not present.
2. You actually get a 16 minute ban (when dishonor is enabled) for deserting the first time. It escalates from there. You only get a small ban if you decline a queue.

Apologies if this is already announced, but can we confirm the bug preventing us from actually leaving queue will be fixed prior to any penalty for denying queue pop?

I think it is fair that this was exploited.

Now that Anet stated it’s not intended, if you continue to exploit it knowing that, then that’s pretty lame of you.

pvp needs more players not bans. they’re patching it. put away the kitten pitchforks people.

the thing is, it’s a team game. who is the best PLAYER is completely irrelevant. Who is the best TEAM is all that matters in conquest game mode.

websites that sell accounts use the accounts after they sell them to spam gold for sale. the person they sold it to gets banned and theres nothing they can do about it.

I just logged in and play ranked PvP. game 1 3 guardians on my team. game 2 3 guardians on my team.

daily isnt even guardian.

queue was short.

stop doing this to me. you are ruining the experience.

Michael.9517:

Solstice.1097:

d/p played well the ranger will not have his CDs ready and will not see it coming.

who runs d/d in pvp? Im mainly just talking about meta vs meta builds or slight variation to the meta builds.

nobody runs d/d. i said d/p

d/p played well the ranger will not have his CDs ready and will not see it coming.

i just thought it would make sense to have a button in-game after the match to click if someone was a deserter.

if someone got clicked as one, AND the server recognized the d/c, they would get dishonor.

this way if you play as a team your team can choose not to give you dishonor. or maybe you played really well and carried your team, but d/c’ed for a minute during the match. your team can choose not to mark you as dishonor.

decided by the players, validated by the servers. Worst case scenario, everyone gets deserter that dc/ed, which is exactly like this system will be. But it also will have cases where giving someone dishonor who didn’t deserve it will be avoided, which is a win for everyone.

If you’re going to play a small-team game online, it is only fair that you are asked to ensure you have a reliable machine and ISP. No one can choose your ISP or machine for you. It is very unlikely for someone to have a reliable ISP and machine to suffer enough disconnects above the average for it to significantly impact anything. In the event of a bad node or headend from your ISP, you may experience issues for several days. I suggest you either play pve or wvw, or have an offline game you can play in times that your connection is less than stable (and of course report the issues to your ISP and ensure they are being addressed).

At the end of the day, it’s people in places like Nevada and Northern California that don’t really have any good ISP’s available that are kinda screwed ATM, but it’s not really anything that Anet should be expected to cater to.

My guess is this “test ladder” season, on Anet’s side, includes a data-gathering aspect. For some of the data pieces needing to be gathered it is required or at least helpful for more players to play a bigger variety of classes, hence the daily incentive to do so. Having it so not everyone had the same class daily on the same day would fix the issue it is creating of too many of those classes playing at the same time.

what if instead of penalizing someone for class-swapping, it simply changed the prediction and therefore the amount of LB points awarded post-game?

in the best ladder systems ever, MMR = leaderboard rank.

it doesn’t really make sense to say in one place you’re X good but in matchmaking you’re Y good.

if you’re the best you’re the best and it should be in both ways.

Justin ODell.9517:

Solstice.1097:

I just swapped toons while I was waiting for queue. When i logged back in the queue had popped and the accept/cancel screen was up with about 12 seconds left. i accepted.

since the class i played as was different than the class i queued as, does this mean it is

A) i get penalty even though i accepted the queue as the class i was on
B) i unintentionally discovered a possible exploit of the (future) profession balance system
or C) somehow the queue popped after i was logged in as that character but still in loading screen which was probably about 8 seconds long and that’s why i saw 12 seconds left on the accept/cancel screen

??

A) No, you only get a penalty if you fail to enter the instance or leave it.

B) There is a bug, which will likely be fixed on the 13th, that prevents players from really leaving the queue. This includes the automatic queue leaving that happens when you log out or change maps.

C) Possibly.

TL;DR
You can change professions due to a bug, as long as you do it before confirming a match.

thank you for the quick reply! good to know you are aware of it

I just swapped toons while I was waiting for queue. When i logged back in the queue had popped and the accept/cancel screen was up with about 12 seconds left. i accepted.

since the class i played as was different than the class i queued as, does this mean it is

A) i get penalty even though i accepted the queue as the class i was on
B) i unintentionally discovered a possible exploit of the (future) profession balance system
or C) somehow the queue popped after i was logged in as that character but still in loading screen which was probably about 8 seconds long and that’s why i saw 12 seconds left on the accept/cancel screen

??

Justin ODell.9517:

Solstice.1097:

also, part of me feels that there should be no such thing as dishonor for a full team of 5 pre-made. if their ally DC’s much they can choose not to queue with that person? the intention of dishonor does not really apply to a pre-made team imo.

This would not be the case. Only the leaver(s) would get dishonor.

Thanks, however what i meant was if you are in a pre-made team of 5 people who are CHOOSING to play with you, then the dishonor system itself isn’t necessary to apply to that scenario. We don’t need dishonor in a scenario where you get to choose your teammates.

I think the 1:30 “waiting for players” part of the match should not count towards the grace period allowed. if you were DC’ed the entire 1:30 but showed up right when the match actually began, it shouldn’t count against you (or in the first X seconds of the match).

also, part of me feels that there should be no such thing as dishonor for a full team of 5 pre-made. if their ally DC’s much they can choose not to queue with that person? the intention of dishonor does not really apply to a pre-made team imo.

oneply.9586:

Justin ODell.9517:

Arietta The Broken.1875:

Also, just a side bar.
The match making/map choosing UI is horrible. Fix please. -

Horrible how? 1990’s website horrible?

the one weird thing i get is that i usually have to select my choice (both map and accept/cancel) 2-5 times before the system accepts it. its the only place in the entire game that i have run into a problem like this.

i dont get this with accept/cancel, but i do get it with map selection.

well the first 1:30 or so it says “waiting for players” so one would think that if not all players show up, the match would not begin?

in a tie i believe it goes to highest invidivual player score?

no even with guardian staff #1 which is aoe i cant get any damage numbers

i would say if you are really good at dueling AND have good enough map awareness to be able to create/find as many 1v1 situations as you can in conquest, and win them quickly, then yes it can be very useful. but against a good team its incredibly hard to get a lot of situations where you get a 1v1 and win quickly before you are +1’ed. its not a reliable strategy to say the least.

i get the bug itself, and i think engis/eles dont have much to do with it except that they have more of the movement skills that might trigger said bug? idk but my point is it happened like 3 times in thousands of games and then twice in one match today in my 2nd match, i was just wondering if anyone else noticed anything

I’ve had the issue happen a few times in the past. It’s like the server de-syncs a player and makes them unable to be stomped. You can stomp them all you want with stability 100 times but nothing happens. in the past i’ve only had it happen maybe 3 times, all of the times it was engineers.

Well I just played a match on Khylo and a necro went down at mid and I stability stomped him three times, with no other enemy players around, and the stomp would not finish. I could not cleave him either. I put a symbol under him and no damage ticks. He just let himself bleed out but could have healed up if he wanted.

Then it happened again in the SAME MATCH to the enemy guardian, at the same place (in the clocktower). He realized it and healed himself back up to full. In this case it didn’t affect the outcome of the match much, but out of thousands of games this is the 4th and 5th time happening to me, in the same match, against 2 different players.

Wondering if anyone else notices this happening more today.

Too much whining. “Rudeness” cannot be policed or enforced without completely removing chat from the game, is that what you want? They don’t like the way you play, and you don’t like they way they talk. Too bad. If you want to teach people manners go volunteer to work with orphans or something.

I hear Hello Kitty Island Adventures is on sale.

infantrydiv.1620:

GhOst.4019:

Correct, you could also use Warhorn which is like 90% swiftness up time, but you choose not to (I am guessing)…. You choose a slow build…you be slow. You are what you choose to be

Get your kittening facts straight please. Warhorn is a 43% swiftness uptime when untraited, 54% when traited, and then of course you have to factor in that the 4th skill is almost useless.

Every post you make makes you look more ignorant, and someone who truly has no idea what goes into strong/viable builds.

Except for warhorn, Ranger’s “Swiftness giving skills” that you speak of are tied to in combat usage only

he was talking about warrior. he was quoting my post

what about hte fact that when you leave queue you are still actually in queue?

do you get penalty for the bug?

Justin ODell.9517:

glock.6590:

I’m not sure yet but I think swapping class and winning the game gives no win but it does give a loss if you lose. Is this intended? I switch class when I solo/duo/ trio Q if there’s already a thief just to get a better team comp but it doesn’t count on the leaderboard.

I usually don’t look at the leaderboards because I know its just who plays the most games but I still don’t wanna only accumulate loses because of the bugged system.

Yes. Leaving the game for any reason, including swapping professions, marks you as a deserter and gives you a full loss. A full loss is the same as if your team ended the game with a score of 0.

If dishonor was enabled, you would be getting dishonor for leaving as well.

apologies if this was already asked, but do you get this penalty if you swap while in queue? while “waiting for players to join” while in the actual map? or just after the 15:00 timer starts?

i dont know about warrior as a whole because there are so many builds but condi warrior beats mesmer easily. unless its PU phantasm build. then condi warrior still takes the point and survives long enough and puts enough damage on the mesmer that an ally can rotate and finish off the fight all the while the cap/decap was yours.

as a warrior i have to choose between ALL my vigor vs a 25% move speed increase. i COULD run signet of fury instead of battle standard, but i choose not to. doesn’t mean i’m complaining warriors are slow. i could run GS if i wanted.

has your schedule changed?

What if the top say… 20 spots on the leaderboard were the top 4 teams in the most recent tournament? If your team won, you would all be the top 5, in order by your actual leaderboard points.

This could be expanded to top 40 or however much. To get in the top X you have to compete in a tournament and place at at certain level.

It would encourage team-forming while taking the pressure off the ranked queue (since there’s no way you get ever get top X rank just from ranked queue). I imagine the more skilled teams would queue less and organize scrims against each other more. Less top teams stomping newbs in the queue system makes a happier more casual and balanced queue. It creates an additional layer to the progression of getting into PvP.

ive played mesmer hundreds of hours and don’t think it’s OP in PvP at all. i think mesmer is OP in duels but that has very little to do with conquest. (and that’s not all mesmer builds)

whenever you see the enemy mesmer call it out. if you have a thief or any player with ranged condi pressure, have them put a little pressure on the mesmer and he will have no choice but to back off the fight or die.