Guild Wars 2

warrior is easy and solid. the meta build has both melee and ranged weapons.

if you wouldn’t have said easy to learn I would have said engineer.

but any class is hard to learn to play well because even if you want to be good at warrior for example, you still have to spend time playing every other class so you can really understand their weaknesses etc.

glock.6590:

Because there’s so much kitten talking about bad teammates that it kittens me off. If you were good you would be able to carry games regardless of the skill level of your teammates.

I’m just tiered of people who QQ 24/7 about bad teammates when they lose all their 1v1s and even fights.

I was actually talking about MMR and pointing out to the OP that higher MMR doesn’t mean better teammates.

And I didn’t call anyone out so get over whatever your deal is XD

glock.6590:

Solstice.1097:

Your mistake is thinking that a decent MMR means you won’t get kitten teammates.

it’s usually the opposite, unfortunately.

Its funny how u talk about bad teammates while eating every single pin down or any other telegrahed attacks in a 1v1.

yea i let you land pin down because it was a shoutbow 1v1 on a node that I owned. I had absolutely no concern about that fight so I was looking at what was going on in the rest of the map.

You were the one 1v1’ing a stalemate matchup on an enemy node and calling me out because you landed pin down. You called it out in game, and then came and called it out on the forums.

I didn’t get below like 95% health either so I don’t understand what point you are trying to make.

Sube Dai.8496:

Some people here need a crash course in marketing.

Twitch receives 45 million + viewers PER MONTH.

That is more than Hulu, more than Netflix, and more than any single TV network could ever hope to achieve.

That makes it a massive audience for marketers, and furthermore its an audience that they can’t access anywhere else. The demographic who watch twitch don’t typically watch a lot of TV, or consume mainstream media.

That makes it a massive, untapped resource as far as ANET is concerned.

They should be all over this. This guy mentioning them is a BIG DEAL.

i agree with your point, but I thought I’d point out that a HUGE portion of twitch viewers are asian or hispanic. NA and EU are actually the minority of twitch viewers. SO the numbers aren’t quite as big as it would seem but they are still big and worth paying attention to.

oh and completely irrelevant but netflix has over 50 million subscribers FYI

i dont normally experience queues of 5 min + unless its just a pretty dead time slot. early in the day or late at night it’s not uncommon though.

a really good thief can carry a team better than most anything else.

but you will sometimes have teams of multiple thieves+mesmers etc.

meta war, ele, engi builds are always a welcome addition to most any team.

one of these days a charity will need to be formed to rehabilitate the personalities of children who grew up with game streamers as their role models.

Your mistake is thinking that a decent MMR means you won’t get kitten teammates.

it’s usually the opposite, unfortunately.

a team-oriented online game without a LFG system is just idiotic.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Streams matter only to the people they matter to.

but…. it’s just as fun to kill those people in PvP as it is anyone else. so bring em on in!

the comeback was made 5v5 looked like

but the point of “don’t give up” still stands.

when we are 4v5 early in a game I always tell my team to not give up, the 5th might come back.

guardian is (generally) better against bursts but warrior is better against conditions and sustained pressure. a medi guard, despite being zerker, can mitigate a HUGE amount of burst with shelter, renewed focus, weapon blocks, aegis, blind, etc. But once his CD’s are blown he is kittened as he has a tiny health pool and very little passive defense.

a warrior (shoutbow) cannot mitigate huge bursts because he has only 1 stun break, no hard CC except fear me and if he takes that he has 0 stability, no blocks, 1 single-target blind, no aegis, no invulnerability. The only advantage a warrior has on guard in this respect is that a warrior’s heals can NOT be interrupted like a guardian’s can. If the warrior doesn’t get bursted hard he can survive a really long time and really beef his team up as well through tons of AoE boons/heals/condi clears. He can’t put out the burst damage of a medi guard but he can put out very comparable damage in a sustained team fight, especially when considering all the might he is giving allies.

also, warrior can kite pretty well and guardian cannot.

i wouldn’t say either of them is better or worse without knowing what specifically they are up against.

Aomine.5012:

Shieldbash.5304:

Warrior – Higher HP, more CC, medium low DPS can’t maintain itself no protection slow regen, poor condition removals, can be melted like butter by specific comps.

Guardian – Lower HP, Medium to Medium low DPS, can maintain himself, with condition stripping and boons, can semi heal himself, low cc, no ranged weapon.

Roll Guardian, as Warriors are soon to become target dummies…

Bunch of none sense…

Current shoutbow warrior has the 2nd highest cleanse potential in the whole game.
CI cleanse 3 condition every 8 seconds.
Shout = cleanse 4 conditions (2 of them 20 cd, 1 of them 48 cd)
Warhorn 4 convert one condition every 12 secs.
Warhorn 5 convert one condition every 20 secs.
What more can you ask?

It is the downfall of bunker Guardian rather than bunker War because bunker war can easily has access to 25 stacks of might, as well as AOE hybrid damage.

shoutbow > conditions but shoutbow can’t really mitigate bursts – they have 0 stability and 1 stun break and no blocks. If you’re playing against a bursty team the guard will usually fare better.

you can’t really form a solid 3-man strategy simply because you don’t know what the rest of your team comp each game is going to be.

so really you’re just asking people what synergizes well and the answer is cover your weaknesses

i don’t know your guardians build because you say its a hybrid… but every build has weaknesses. is it mobility, sustain, CC, condi clear, DPS, or something else? figure out what his weaknesses are, and add a class that covers as many of those as you can. Then look again at what weaknesses your duo has and follow the same process to add the 3rd class.

Anyway, you can’t directly compare classes without specifying what builds you are comparing.

the meta builds right now would be shoutbow vs medi guard

comparing those two builds the biggest difference is shoutbow has almost no major weaknesses, but it also doesn’t hard-counter very many things other than condi spam. medi guard has more weaknesses, but it also hard-counters more things than a shoutbow (most importantly, thieves).

shoutbow is faster, more mobile, but has ZERO hard CC or interrupts unless they are running with Fear Me on a long CD. Also shoutbow’s playstyle is much more passive as far as survival goes (they sigil proc 2x as often and their best traits are survival-oriented) but it’s not necessarily easier. More forgiving, yes, but as a support role it demands much higher overall awareness of everyone’s CDs and life and position etc whereas medi guard is a little more self-focused (and has to be because most of their defense is active).

Jaxom.7310:

Yasha.5963:

Shieldbash.5304:

Warrior – Higher HP, more CC, medium low DPS can’t maintain itself no protection slow regen, poor condition removals, can be melted like butter by specific comps.

Guardian – Lower HP, Medium to Medium low DPS, can maintain himself, with condition stripping and boons, can semi heal himself, low cc, no ranged weapon.

Roll Guardian, as Warriors are soon to become target dummies…

? You must be describing warrior from a different game.

Warrior has possibly the best sustain, cc removal, and regen of any class, has several ways to mitigate all damage, and can spec for very high DPS…

Guardian has ranged weapons, and can spec for huge burst damage, has some decent cc options as well….

Specifically between tanky builds, I would say the difference is guard requires a bit more thought and it might provide more group synergy.

u both wrong, guard has A ranged weapon, the scepter, and its mediocre range

since when is guardian staff a melee weapon?

it makes perfect sense that skills like rampage as one, warrior rampage, lich, and other powerful stability sources should not be taken away so easily as a low CD auto-target teleport skill that does 5 other things as well.

thief isn’t supposed to be the go-to interrupt class, mesmer is. if this nerf plays out to be significant enough then maybe thief would need a buff in some other area but I really think traited steal has been the single most OP skill of all classes for a long time now.

I should add that I also don’t think it was a weakness in how Nos played. It was most likely that Necro still isn’t balanced and specifically needs a buff, but part of it could be that Abjured plays such a 3-point spread all the time that maybe that strategy just doesn’t provide enough support for a Necro. This comes down to the fact that they probably would have figured out the solution sooner if they had the sort of competition in NA that oRNG has had in EU.

I do think team comp was the determining factor. oRNG was willing to continue switching up comps until they found a synergy that really worked (talking prior to WTS), and they made a great decision to go with the comp they did.

Tage made some of the most impressive medi guard plays I can remember seeing, and Frae did an amazing job of dropping the cele players as well as getting constant decaps.

In the VODs I can see where some of Abjured’s mistakes were made. There were times when Phanta kept pushing far even though mid was open, and oRNG was defending far because they knew he was going to push (it became too predictable – had Phanta gone mid he would have got a decap instead of a 1v1 on an enemy node)

But all in all both teams played really well and from where I’m sitting it looks like oRNG had a comp advantage and exploited it to the max (most often being destroying Nos and winning 5v4)

If instead of Nos the Abjured had… say… Tarcis, I don’t think there would have been enough weakness for oRNG to exploit and make the plays that they did.

2 teams of 5 hammer guardians

1 player on each team goes into down state

use your banishes on the downed player to golf him across the map.

race to the other side.

a dev did hint that they are working on something that will provide us more data, and the subject was about match history along these lines.

the exact quote was something along the lines of they can’t give details, and won’t be able to do everything they want, but that they think we’ll be pretty happy with the result.

sigil of energy should just add vigor duration. sigil of doom should add aoe poison for 3 seconds instead of long duration single target

maybe a 3/3/3/3/2 warrior with axe/axe + axe/axe with cleric amulet, runes of krait, and 4x sigils of corruption, mending, tri-banner, and signet of rage

gl hf

MailMail.6534:

Solstice.1097:

I suspect there are certain things that happen behind the scenes at WTS that minors should never have to witness.

Why is it that those “certain things” should effect a minor’s ability to compete? And if you’re implying that these “certain things” count as bad behavior, then maybe those “certain things” shouldn’t be happening in the first place.

don’t ask me! i don’t know anything, i’m just suspicious XD

I suspect there are certain things that happen behind the scenes at WTS that minors should never have to witness.

you should probably tell people whether you are NA or EU

you don’t EAT the celery, you wear it.

if you want to do pvp the level cap doesnt matter. gw2 is not like WoW. everyone has the same gear stats no matter what level they are.

if you really want to be good you should play all the classes a little bit, that way no matter what class you end up “maining” you will understand how to beat the other classes better.

uberkingkong.8041:

Force them to fight where I want to fight

you mean off-point?

Booms.2594:

honestly the best way imo is just to 1/2/2 and win your matchups.

so we agree XD

Some of the input received on this thread has led me to believe that it’s a good idea to send 1 home, 2 mid, 2 far, Instead of going for a 1-3-1

because far is going to be probably wakkey, and one person will fall back (probably nos but maybe 5g). This puts you 2v2 vs wakkey and nos/5g and another 2v2 vs toker and nos/5g

It would seem these are much more winnable 2v2 fights if you split the necro and engi up.

But you still have to have someone hold 1v1 at home vs Phantaram, and you can’t lose either of the 2v2 fights. so yea its a simple formula but its extremely difficult to execute unless you’re team is all top 20 players in the world.

brannigan.9831:

Post like these are symptomatic of what’s wrong with this game. There is a small subset of people who think this is some kind of e-sports game yet the game provides very little incentive to group up outside of a couple of tournaments a year with cash prizes. There is still very little reason to for the regular game some awful leaderboard and poor prizes./take off the rose colored glasses. With all the problems this game has who cares how you beat Abjured quite frankly.

and posts like these make me chuckle at the irony of going out of your way to post on a forum about how you really don’t care XD

2 medi guard and 3 ranger should be the new meta according to you.

except that you wont be able to hold a point for 10 seconds.

uberkingkong.8041:

Dude you need to look at my games… Tell me why I keep getting games where I lose its -2, but all my wins are +1.

Give me some kittening +2 +3 games, tired of this losing -2 games.

I have to carry newbs solo que, I deserve +2s or +3s.

Also, last game I got black screen, came back after like 40 seconds.
I deserve +2 for that, coming back to carry my team from losing.

I’m carrying kittening hard, I deserve +2s, yall want to keep throwing newbs at me fine. But when I lose because my team is clueless newbs (people that don’t even understand the PvP game, not people that just suck), than yall need to be lenient because I cant carry a full team of clueless people. Clueless people by those not evening know where the home node is. Or even what a node is period.

I be winning games, but when I do lose (rarely) it hurts me so kitten leaderboards, totally unfair.

See image, my screen went black for some reason during that match. Very odd, I think I took dishonor because of it, came back and went HAM on the other team.

shares pic of black screen as proof he deserves moar ladder points.

in the same thread he claims he and his buddies can beat abjured.

this guy is good.

Eurantien.4632:

Good players that do ranged damage are lightly hindered by “people up close”.

another alternative is having a thief comparable to toker to mirror him.

it keeps coming back to player skill though.

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

maybe this is where a PU phantasm power mesmer could have a legit place in conquest. it beats thief and puts out huge damage while staying survivable.

Except it is immediately destroyed by Wakkey/Phanta AOE damage.

not 100% sure that’s the case but even so, his role would not be to fight elementalists in most cases.

It would be to fight magic toker, that he could never catch.

his real role is to put a lot of DPS on nos and fivegauge so that they will die too quickly 2v3 if toker leaves the point, so toker has to stay. if he leaves to +1 a side node you have to quickly kill engi and necro and cap because you’re going to have an ele and thf collapse on you shortly. if you can threaten to take out engi and necro then toker has to stay and help. that’s the idea anyway.

And the amount of AOE pressure 5 guage puts out on his own. Let alone with NOS. Even a traited phantasm build will not survive that much aoe pressure. AOE spam is part of why mesmers were removed from the meta over a year ago NA (Just now are they starting to creep back in.)

Also another thing you are completely missing, a PU mesmer. I don’t care if he is power PU, condi, PU or anything else. That is the most useless build in a conquest mode. Sure mesmers are running torch right now but that is to help them set up their shatter bursts not for the effects of PU.

Lastly if a “power phantasm PU mesmer” were to try and help counter the abjured, he would be terrible as a phantasm mesmer, terrible as a power mesmer, and be a PU mesmer. The amount of traits he would have to take to make “Power phantasm PU” work, are just not available.

this post isn’t about PU mesmers. that was just an afterthought about a class that can add pressure to the already existing 2v2 while still surviving vs toker

Maybe they could survive vs toker, but the amount of AOE pressure 5guage and nos put out alone in said fight would nullify anything useful that mesmer is doing.

the mesmer wouldnt be taking pressure from anyone but toker. 2 other people are fighting nos and 5g up close.

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

maybe this is where a PU phantasm power mesmer could have a legit place in conquest. it beats thief and puts out huge damage while staying survivable.

Except it is immediately destroyed by Wakkey/Phanta AOE damage.

not 100% sure that’s the case but even so, his role would not be to fight elementalists in most cases.

It would be to fight magic toker, that he could never catch.

his real role is to put a lot of DPS on nos and fivegauge so that they will die too quickly 2v3 if toker leaves the point, so toker has to stay. if he leaves to +1 a side node you have to quickly kill engi and necro and cap because you’re going to have an ele and thf collapse on you shortly. if you can threaten to take out engi and necro then toker has to stay and help. that’s the idea anyway.

And the amount of AOE pressure 5 guage puts out on his own. Let alone with NOS. Even a traited phantasm build will not survive that much aoe pressure. AOE spam is part of why mesmers were removed from the meta over a year ago NA (Just now are they starting to creep back in.)

Also another thing you are completely missing, a PU mesmer. I don’t care if he is power PU, condi, PU or anything else. That is the most useless build in a conquest mode. Sure mesmers are running torch right now but that is to help them set up their shatter bursts not for the effects of PU.

Lastly if a “power phantasm PU mesmer” were to try and help counter the abjured, he would be terrible as a phantasm mesmer, terrible as a power mesmer, and be a PU mesmer. The amount of traits he would have to take to make “Power phantasm PU” work, are just not available.

this post isn’t about PU mesmers. that was just an afterthought about a class that can add pressure to the already existing 2v2 while still surviving vs toker

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

maybe this is where a PU phantasm power mesmer could have a legit place in conquest. it beats thief and puts out huge damage while staying survivable.

Except it is immediately destroyed by Wakkey/Phanta AOE damage.

not 100% sure that’s the case but even so, his role would not be to fight elementalists in most cases.

It would be to fight magic toker, that he could never catch.

his real role is to put a lot of DPS on nos and fivegauge so that they will die too quickly 2v3 if toker leaves the point, so toker has to stay. if he leaves to +1 a side node you have to quickly kill engi and necro and cap because you’re going to have an ele and thf collapse on you shortly. if you can threaten to take out engi and necro then toker has to stay and help. that’s the idea anyway.

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

maybe this is where a PU phantasm power mesmer could have a legit place in conquest. it beats thief and puts out huge damage while staying survivable.

Except it is immediately destroyed by Wakkey/Phanta AOE damage.

not 100% sure that’s the case but even so, his role would not be to fight elementalists in most cases.

maybe this is where a PU phantasm power mesmer could have a legit place in conquest. it beats thief and puts out huge damage while staying survivable.

exactly, someone needs to be able to stand up to phantaram, someone needs to stand up to toker, and 2 people need to stand up to engi/necro. it’s all skill. if you can win more even numbered fights than you lose then you can out-rotate, and that’s what conquest is period.

someone can just run the same comp as them and outplay them right? no? then it’s a player skill issue not a balance issue.

Eura most of what you’re saying is about player skill level. My point was that your team HAS to have that skill level to compete with them. Rotations eventually reach a state of nearly perfect, and then conquest becomes a matter of simply winning even numbered fights. If you can’t win even numbered fights against the Abjured, then you cannot beat them. Your best bet is to stalemate the eles while you try to win 2v2 or 3v3. The person surviving against toker doesn’t have to live forever, they just have to live long enough for the 2v2 against nos/5g is won (again, have to win even numbered fights)

Abjured really shows 2 things:

1. rotation. being able to win even numbered fights allows you to rotate perfectly all the time, getting the 2+ cap and then just matching numbers everywhere til 500. So rotation is only a factor when a team makes mistakes There is no such thing as wow that was a great rotation – no, it’s simply a correct rotation and anything less would have been incorrect.

2. getting on that level requires playing together as a team for some time. then it ALSO requires being able to beat top players in even numbered fights. so…. it’s not likely to happen soon.

another thought though – if your ranged burst is a mesmer with portal, a portal juke might be able to pull out a 2-cap that you can then focus on holding.

i highly doubt this change was made with PvP in mind. I am sure they THOUGHT about the impact it could/will have on PvP when they were deciding exactly how many stacks, duration, etc, etc, but it wasn’t the primary reason for this change, and therefore it is quite likely that a few builds will become OP for awhile simply due to this change (but we don’t know what because we don’t know the specifics).

at least it’s going to shake up the meta, though. shifting imbalances are more interesting than staleness.

Abjured is incredibly good but it would be so much more fun to watch closer games, so I’d really like to see someone give them a run for their money someday soon.

Here’s how I think it can be done.

1. You need 2 people who can stalemate Wakkey and Phantaram I sincerely doubt you are going to kill either of them 1v1, but you need to at least be able to stalemate the side nodes.

2. You need someone who can keep Toker’s attention Most likely this has to be a LB Ranger or Mesmer. This person might have to be the best player on the team, because you have to be bursty enough that Toker has no choice but to take you out, and survivable (good) enough to not let him do it. This person might want to swap a thing or two in their build to be slightly more survivable.

3. You need 2 people who can beat Fivegauge and Noscoc in a 2v2 Maybe a zerker hambow and a celestial staff elementalist… i really don’t know what the best comp for this is going to be, but it’s gotta happen.

So if you can stalemate their ele’s 1v1 and keep toker’s attention and basically turn the game into a 2v2 vs Nos and Fivegauge, and WIN that 2v2, then you can out rotate them from there by playing man-to-man defense and matching numbers everywhere.

But I don’t think any team that hasn’t been together for at least several months could pull this off. So stick together, teams! Stop trying to change out players every month because you didn’t win… part of the reason you didn’t win is because you change out players every month!! XD

some people will no longer have a tough decision about whether or not to keep playing this game.

/thread

Random Weird Guy.3528:

I wanted to PM Justin with this, but his inbox is full. Poor Justin

Anyway, I was wondering how MMR changes work within a team of players with different MMRs.

For example, if there are two players in a team and one of them has twice the MMR of another player and they both have the same deviation, would that player receive less of an MMR boost when winning a match against a team with an average MMR between the two players, or would the change in MMR be the same?

In other words, if there is a low MMR player who begins to play only with a premade team that carries him/her, would the MMR gap between these team members shrink or remain the same?

their MMRs would move closer together.

in theory if 5 people never once pugged and every single game they played together as a full 5-man, then all 5 of them would have the exact same MMR (not counting possible disconnect/desertions).

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Justin ODell.9517:

On Friday I lowered the inflated MMR parties receive from +5% per member to +2% per member. I believe the initial value of +5% was too high, and we were aiming to overshoot due to the bad perception of solo vs pre-made. The drop to 2% was based on data from the beta ladder.

Could that may be what you noticed this weekend?

I think the issue with inflated MMR is once you reach a certain tier of players, they will be experienced enough with team rotations that they can automatically respond to what their teammates are doing even without the use of voice communication.
Obviously there is still an advantage with being premade and having access to this, but the gap seems to become increasingly smaller at increasingly higher levels of play.

i disagree with part of this logic simply because using voice coms =/= using voice coms properly. just like how pugs get better rotationally over time even without voice coms, teams that use voice coms do so more effectively over time. its one thing to say in voice coms which point you’re going to or that you’re going to die, but it’s a whole other level to be constantly calling out numbers, cooldowns, respawns, stuns, peels, etc.

what i’m saying is that using voice coms is only as much of an advantage as YOU make it to be.

insanemaniac.2456:

Solstice.1097:

insanemaniac.2456:

Solstice.1097:

hmmm this brings up an interesting thought… what if certain sigils should be made mutually exclusive with certain weapons. for example air/fire sigils don’t work on thief dagger, mesmer GS, or ranger LB. energy sigils dont work on thf SB, ele dagger or warrior warhorn,. can be done with runes/amulets too like soldier amulet doesn’t work with turret traits, balthazar runes don’t work with incindiary powder.

if not every class had the same choices, it would be 100x easier to balance things that need balancing without creating so many unintended consequences.

an example of this would be remember how Lyssa runes were nerfed? Well instead of nerfing them across the board, they could have just made them not work with basilisk venom or signet of rage.

adding in a bunch of (potentially undocumented) exceptions is opposite the direction the devs want with balance.. it drastically raises the barrier to entry for new blood

or one could say the opposite, and that by Anet’s own logic having fewer things to choose from makes it easier.

taking lyssa runes… if it had a cutoff at 75 seconds for the 6 piece bonus where if the elite is below 75 sec cd, it only converts 5 condis, and above a 75 sec cd, it converts all. thats just needlessly complicated. it works inconsistently between professions. it makes for a really long tooltip. if you decide to only show the “correct” tooltip for each equipped elite, then there is info hidden from players that can only be accessed by going out of their way to look for it.

i think those 3 things are good enough reason to balance every use case around optimal use cases instead of making exceptions. because at least if one balances around optimality, one does not need to gum up the system with poorly telegraphed, conditional, or excepted info.

and then… what if a player notices air/fire sigils and is like “oh, these are great for burst damage… my teef is a bursty toon… maybe ill try air/fire on his weapons” but then looks at the sigil options for daggers and cant find air/fire? that situation is a real head scratcher for him. it doesnt make sense. he would have to go read all the patch notes ever in order to find out why that is the way it is or something, and therein lies the problem… there is inconsistent functionality, and he would have to go out of his way to get an explanation for why.

i dunno, youre proposing anet targets balance at a really micro level, and i think doing so would overcomplicate the game and make it wayyyy less accessible.

maybe you misread or i didn’t explain clearly. in the lyssa example, if you had signet of rage equipped, then Lyssa would not be one of the options when choosing your rune. it would be grayed out, and if you try to click on it you get the message this rune is not compatible with X so remove X if you want this rune.

I also think some of you are overstating how much Anet cares about keeping the entry barrier low. I mean, look at how great of a tutorial PvP has!

I really doubt conquest is part of the reasoning for this change.

more likely it’s because in stronghold the channels will be interrupted by CC and not damage. and also because wvw hammer trains.

the effect on conquest will be determined by how many stacks and duration each skill is converted to