Guild Wars 2

DarcShriek.5829:

Considering how much activity in GW2 has increased lately, I’d say that is good evidence to support the hypothesis that a lot of people like the living story.

Actually, I’d wager that the increased activity have more to do with the Tequatl revamp and SAB. I don’t hear much about people getting all fired up to do the next chapter of the LS.

And, yes, I understand that both of those features are “part of the Living Story.” But they would be well attended whether they were or not, so that’s a moot point.

ANet has not been able to address the condition cap problem, which has been an issue since launch. Does anyone really think they’re capable of doing anything good with the entire skill system?

If ANet raises the level cap, they won’t do it in a vacuum. It will include a new landmass to explore, new baddies to fight, etc. This alone will keep some players playing, regardless of those players’ protests. They’ll also put out a huge marketing blitz to draw lots of new players in. Some players will leave, yes. But those players will have already purchased the game, and perhaps some gems. If they leave, it’s no big deal to ANet — they’ve already gotten those players’ money, and there will be lots of new players to fill the ranks behind those that leave.

It’s a win/win for ANet. I’d be very surprised if they don’t raise the cap at some point. I’m not saying they should — or shouldn’t. I’m just saying it’s very likely they will.

If a level cap increase obliterated all the kitten they’ve mucked the game up with, and returned the game to the original design intent, I would be all for it. But they won’t do that.

I took it a step further — I quit logging in 2 weeks ago, and it’s awesome. Without a doubt, that was the best decision I’ve made regarding this game yet.

I may log in again for the Mad King event, but maybe not.

Skan.5301:

inb4 the list comes in showing how it’s actually brand new and not the same as previous content updates.

I’m sure there’s an alarm (with a flashing red light) going off in Vayne’s office about now.

goldenwing.8473:

Spiral Architect.6540:

It’s a clever substitute for real content, with gem store monetization thrown in for bonus effect.

I’d agree, except about the “clever” part. <straightface>

Yeah, after I hit “reply” I doubted myself on that one. But I let it stand, because I couldn’t think of anything more “clever” to put in there. “Devious,” perhaps?

It’s a clever substitute for real content, with gem store monetization thrown in for bonus effect.

Skan.5301:

The classes still play the same as they did back when you were playing. No new skills, no new animations. Nothing’s changed except a few minor skill tweaks and of course the content. All in all, it’s still the same game as before class wise.

Well, to be fair, there have been a boatload of nerfs, and brand new, shiny vertical progression grind to get caught up in. But yeah, pretty much this.

Harper.4173:

With the amount of backlash ascended gear got – I doubt we’ll be seeing any more vertical gear grind any time soon.
It might be a year or more – possibly never. I doubt that new tiers will be added. My bet is that new infusions will be what we’ll be going for next – but that’s extremely long term.

Anet already pushed the player base with ascended – and although many weren’t happy most stuck around and got it. The situation is fragile right now – push more vertical progression onto the players and most people myself included will say " This far, no further" and quit.
They know that and won’t do it.

I disagree. With the addition of ascended weapons, players who are disappointed at ANet’s about face are leaving. This is actually good for ANet, because: 1) players who have left have still bought the game, and 2) this clears room for more players who like gear grind, stat inflation, and vertical progression; and who will also buy the game. Once all the “old guard” players are gone, ANet can create more grind, more vertical progression, and such, and still don’t have to create any meaningful content. It’s a win for ANet, any way you slice it. And the players who are left will lap it up like a kitten with a bowl of cream.

fellyn.5083:

Spiral Architect.6540:

fellyn.5083:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Poledo.3256:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

So by “just playing” I have 300 dust, 10 dragonite ore, 20 fragments, and 15 dark matter. I’ll have an ascended weapon by October 2014 at this rate.

I went ahead and tried to get dragonite ore. I found that I had to sit around and watch timers in addition to getting to an area early in order to avoid being dumped into overflow. Then I got to mill around, bored, while waiting for the world boss/event and then I got to fail along with everyone else in the group and got nothing.

Enthralling game design right there.

Yes and no. Up until recently you weren’t really missing anything by not attending boss events. Therefore you argument would be invalid about having to camp in zones to beat overflows and stand around bored. However now that we have dragonite from world bosses it’s validated. Sure you CAN get it elsewhere, but expect to have enough by Christmas if you are just getting it from world chests a few at a time.

WvW seems to be a good way to get the mats. I don’t do WvW though. However I have also made two ascended weapons as of last night so it’s not a challenge for me. I do empathize with you though and understand the frustration.

I’m not doing WvW without ascended weapons/trinkets because I refuse to be at a 15% disadvantage (math in threads on this forum). This also deviates from what was promised.

I’m not sure where you’re getting your numbers from. An ascended weapon provides a rounded up 3% stat bonus over an exotic weapon.

I have an ascended axe and shield and I’m being completely honest here. I don’t notice a single bit of difference in the damage I do from when they were exotic.

What kind of boons you and the people around you bring to the table affect that far far far more than the gap between exotic and ascended.

For those of you who continue to trot out that (erroneous) 3% figure, I offer you this thread.

It’s not erroneous. The stats on an ascended weapon are roughly 3% better than the stats on an exotic weapon.

The numbers those guys are pulling come from a character with full ascended trinkets vs full exotic trinkets.

Stands to reason that if all those things have slightly better stats than you’ll be doing more damage.

You’re also forgetting to include the increase in weapon damage, and how that synergizes with the stat increases. In the case of some combinations (e.g. berserker), the net damage increase is significantly more than 3%. Combine that with some trait combinations, and at the end of the day you’ve got a sizable chunk more damage.

fellyn.5083:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Poledo.3256:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

So by “just playing” I have 300 dust, 10 dragonite ore, 20 fragments, and 15 dark matter. I’ll have an ascended weapon by October 2014 at this rate.

I went ahead and tried to get dragonite ore. I found that I had to sit around and watch timers in addition to getting to an area early in order to avoid being dumped into overflow. Then I got to mill around, bored, while waiting for the world boss/event and then I got to fail along with everyone else in the group and got nothing.

Enthralling game design right there.

Yes and no. Up until recently you weren’t really missing anything by not attending boss events. Therefore you argument would be invalid about having to camp in zones to beat overflows and stand around bored. However now that we have dragonite from world bosses it’s validated. Sure you CAN get it elsewhere, but expect to have enough by Christmas if you are just getting it from world chests a few at a time.

WvW seems to be a good way to get the mats. I don’t do WvW though. However I have also made two ascended weapons as of last night so it’s not a challenge for me. I do empathize with you though and understand the frustration.

I’m not doing WvW without ascended weapons/trinkets because I refuse to be at a 15% disadvantage (math in threads on this forum). This also deviates from what was promised.

I’m not sure where you’re getting your numbers from. An ascended weapon provides a rounded up 3% stat bonus over an exotic weapon.

I have an ascended axe and shield and I’m being completely honest here. I don’t notice a single bit of difference in the damage I do from when they were exotic.

What kind of boons you and the people around you bring to the table affect that far far far more than the gap between exotic and ascended.

For those of you who continue to trot out that (erroneous) 3% figure, I offer you this thread.

funkylovemonkey.3097:

It’s not a wishlist I would like to see in the future. It’s a wishlist of what I wish Anet had been working on for the last year instead of weapon and armor tiers and temporary content and celebrations. At the one year mark in GW1, Factions was released. With a considerably smaller team working on the game back then as well. Six months after that we had the release of Nightfall. Two full continents, four new professions, thousands of skills, missions and quests. Do you think we’re going to have close to that with GW2 in six months? And that’s despite the fact that GW2 is quite a bit more popular then GW1 was, with a far more extensive gem shop.

My problem is that in the last year of updates, they’ve invested a lot of time on temporary content, a rather threadbare living story, and vertical progression. And it appears the philosophy of Anet has changed from what it was in GW1 and now is like every other MMO on the market; a focus on cheap tricks of vertical progression and an insistence on grinding.

Quoted for truth.

It’s not a Logitech problem. I have had this happen with a Razer Naga, and a standard, garden-variety USB mouse. It’s an issue with the game.

ANet never intended for players to use skills with condition damage.

xephire.8324:

why not?more content.

New tiers of gear are a very lame excuse for content.

At one time, they said they were working on the issue. Then, they came out with another statement that said the opposite, that they weren’t working on it, and that it was too difficult and complicated. There have been lots of suggestions from players on how to address the condition cap, some good, some not so good. But all suggestions have been ignored.

Moral of the story? Don’t play condition builds outside of solo play. It’s a shame, really, because other games have all kinds of good condition damage mechanics, even in groups. Just not GW2.

I hate to say it, but these ideas, as good as they are, will never make it into game.

We had a 20-page thread, with hundreds of replies, that was all about giving ANet feedback and ideas about ascended gear. There were all kinds of suggestions, including several that were similar (or identical to) what has been outlined above.

In that entire 20-page thread, there were zero replies from anyone at ANet. None. Not a single, solitary word. Then, after ascended gear hit live on 9/3/13, the “feedback” thread was deleted, and is nowhere to be found now. Ascended gear, meanwhile, was released as is.

As to the idea posted in the OP, I would also come back to the game if that were implemented. But it ain’t gonna happen. ANet wants stat inflation, so that’s what we get.

Bottom line? ANet designed a game to have horizontal, rather than vertical, progression. They were not able to deliver on that goal, so they adapted, and changed their goals. Now we have a game that is full of grindy check-off tasks, vertical progression, and no new permanent content.

Is this good? Bad? That’s up to the players to decide. I decided to bow out, and leave the grindy “content” to other players. I have better things to do with my time than chase shiny things so I can chase more shiny things.

Have I given up on GW2? Not entirely. I’ll be keeping an eye on further developments; it’s conceivable, albeit unlikely, that ANet may steer the game back toward a model I find more to my liking. If that happens, I’ll come back. But in the meantime, every day I’m away I miss the game less and less.

Since the Sept. 3rd patch, I’ve played a total of about 10 minutes. Although there’s been a lot of features in the game that I’ve truly enjoyed, it has progressively moved toward grind and progression through gear acquisition. And quite frankly, other games do that better — and with purpose. There’s really nothing in GW2 to grind gear for.

Since release, there’s been lots of temporary, fluff content updates, but nothing of any consequence to me. And now we have gear-based progression on top of that, plus an ever-increasing emphasis on farming. If I’m going to get caught up in that style of game play, I want the content to justify it.

So, no thanks. All in all, did I get my money’s worth out of the game? Sure. But now it’s time for me to move on to other things.

I sincerely hope that some game developers from outside of ANet are reading these threads.

Oh, I don’t think they’re malicious in this regard. Just, well… you know.

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Spiral Architect.6540:

JDGumby.7685:

Lokki.1092:

Why are there 144 different stat combinations for Exotic trinkets and only 13 for Ascended?

Obvious answer: Tiering traits and skills (BOO!) didn’t narrow the amount of possible builds enough for ArenaNet’s tastes. Limiting the stat combinations on Ascended items funnels players into yet fewer viable builds, thus reducing balancing headaches just a wee bit more.

That, or perhaps sheer incompetence.

I would actually put my money on this. It’s abysmally sloppy that Ascended isn’t even worth building because many of your builds aren’t supported by the stat sets :/

Yeah, consider that they’ve never “figured out” how to address the condition cap, even though there have been dozens of posts on these forums with reasonable suggestions on how to handle it. Also consider that many other games have condition damage mechanics that actually work, but GW2 doesn’t? Kinda fishy to me.

Vayne.8563:

Spiral Architect.6540:

Vayne.8563:

So a company that said literally thousands of things before launch can be called on five of them.

You keep trotting some iteration of that phrase out, Vayne, and you keep missing the point: one of the key concepts the game was marketed on was the idea of horizontal progression, without gear grind. They said it over and over again. And then they trashed the idea.

If I had known the game would turn into a “gear grind, chase the shinies so you can chase more shinies” game, I would not have bought it.

No, I don’t think it was one of the key concepts the game was marketed on. In fact in thousands of videos it was mentioned a handful of times.

Dynamic events are what this game was marketed on. Personal story was what this game was marketed on. Vertical progression quotes are few and far between in comparison. They are important to you, personally, so you latched onto those few mentions but this isn’t big big new. People trot out the same three quotes. In five years of marketing, a handful of quotes doesn’t make what this game was marketed on.

Iteration, on the other hand, was mentioned in post after post, after post. Go back through the old blog posts and see how often iteration and iterative process was mentioned, and even an entire blogpost was devoted to it. It was in virtually every post by arena net for over a year.

Well, Dude, I’m not going to argue with you anymore. The game you played is clearly not the same one I played. The PR you read and watched wasn’t the same PR I read and watched. I doubt you’ll ever be willing to see anyone else’s viewpoint on this issue, so I’m going to quit trying. Good luck to you.

Vayne.8563:

So a company that said literally thousands of things before launch can be called on five of them.

You keep trotting some iteration of that phrase out, Vayne, and you keep missing the point: one of the key concepts the game was marketed on was the idea of horizontal progression, without gear grind. They said it over and over again. And then they trashed the idea.

If I had known the game would turn into a “gear grind, chase the shinies so you can chase more shinies” game, I would not have bought it.

fellyn.5083:

Spiral Architect.6540:

Tachenon.5270:

Ashabhi.1365:

Again, it’s a portion of the playerbase that has decided that the game is unplayable without the absolute BiS gear. The rest of us are out there playing the game in mix-n-match armor. Funny thing is that we’re doing just fine.

I wonder if the new and improved Tequatl is an attempt to remedy that situation.

Yep. Any tweaks to old content, or even new content, will be tuned such that if you don’t have ascended level gear, you’ll wish you did.

You assume.

Watch, and learn.

JDGumby.7685:

Lokki.1092:

Why are there 144 different stat combinations for Exotic trinkets and only 13 for Ascended?

Obvious answer: Tiering traits and skills (BOO!) didn’t narrow the amount of possible builds enough for ArenaNet’s tastes. Limiting the stat combinations on Ascended items funnels players into yet fewer viable builds, thus reducing balancing headaches just a wee bit more.

That, or perhaps sheer incompetence.

Tachenon.5270:

Ashabhi.1365:

Again, it’s a portion of the playerbase that has decided that the game is unplayable without the absolute BiS gear. The rest of us are out there playing the game in mix-n-match armor. Funny thing is that we’re doing just fine.

I wonder if the new and improved Tequatl is an attempt to remedy that situation.

Yep. Any tweaks to old content, or even new content, will be tuned such that if you don’t have ascended level gear, you’ll wish you did.

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

No Walking.6349:

Since when do you NEED ascended items?

Lol. Ignorant posters are ignorant

Not sure if serious.

In any case, I will sum it up very quickly. The very core reason for people to need ascended items is… ASPIRATION.

Noone needs to be at the top. But everyone wants to. Everyone wants to be the very best they could possibly be. This is the most basic nature of human beings. It’s why society evolves, changes, and it’s why technology progresses.

When humanity managed to explore the ends of the earth, where did they look to next? The moon! And now we’ve been there, and accordingly, we want to travel beyond the moon, to see the stars and galaxies beyond. It’s what drives us.

Even if ascended looks like garbage, people will chase it because people will always desire to reach the highest tier they can. You think you’re smart saying people don’t need it, but it’s human nature that entails them to chase after it. This is the very basic reason. Not including the effect on WvW, not including it’s relevance in fractals.

^ This. How many of you, when you bought the game and installed it, thought, “I’m going to shoot for true mediocrity in this game; that’ll be awesome.” Right, I didn’t think so.

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

…but you do realise if Anet can’t stick to their guns, it makes them look fickle, weak, and unworthy to take seriously, right?

Well, yeah; pretty much since November.

milo.6942:

I briefly looked for any post to say this, maybe I missed it, but how is everyone in this thread neglecting to mention how dumbfounding it is that a game director doesn’t have a firm grasp on something this crucial to the game’s future? He “hopes” there aren’t going to be more tiers? “this should be it”?? Is he designing the game based on marketing focus groups?

That’s just slippery PR language so that when they roll out the next tier, no one can point to anything definitive he said about it.

I had one the evening of the latest patch. I hit Esc, then clicked the “Exit to Desktop” option. Awesome.

Vayne.8563:

You can eat your steak if you want.

For a short while, perhaps. Once ascended armor comes out, they’ll start tuning content to that gear level. Then, when the next tier of gear comes out, they’ll tune to that. And so on. Pretty soon, that steak will be off the menu.

In one short year, they went from "Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.” to “Here, everyone: chase the shiny lewtz, just like you did in all those other games.” ’Tis a shame.

Enjoy your tuna noodle casserole.

IndigoSundown.5419:

There was a recent consolidation of threads about Ascended into a 20 page thread that I can no longer find.

You can’t find that thread because, after 20 pages of comments (and not a single response from anyone at ANet) it was deleted. That thread is gone, completely ignored.

You are right, Vayne. This game has changed. It is as though I went into a restaurant and ordered filet mignon, then in the middle of the meal, the waiter came back, took away the filet mignon and gave me tuna noodle casserole.

Before the latest patch hit, I missed maybe 5(?) total. Since the patch, I haven’t done any.

Vayne.8563:

It’s one tiny aspect of the game to someone responsible for all aspects of the game.

One tiny aspect? No. It’s a complete about face. Calling it anything else is sheer obfuscation. I refuse to drink that koolaid.

Vayne.8563:

<snip>

But after hearing Colin’s Pax interview, the whole thing sat a bit easier with me. I still don’t love the idea. But I felt at least he was explaining the why it was done and that did make it easier for me. It felt a bit like the old Guild Wars 1 patch notes.

Exotics were just too easy to get….based on what they had originally intended.

<snip>

I’ll quote myself from another thread:

Spiral Architect.6540:

I don’t really buy that. If exotics were truly not intended to be so easy to get, why did they make them craftable? Why did they make them available for dungeon tokens? Why did they include them in the drop tables?

And then there’s this, taken from here :

“Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions – a lot of that is still up in the air and we’ll finalise a lot of those reward systems as we get closer to release. And those come off of things like the bosses at the end of dungeons – the raids.”

Colin’s statement at PAX strikes me as just spin and smokescreen, concocted to try and get people to shut up about ArenaNet’s about face on the ascended gear release.

colesy.8490:

I don’t understand, how is the trinity better, or “more depth”?

Here, I’ll quote myself from earlier in the thread:

Spiral Architect.6540:

The “damage/control/support” trinity that ANet put in place for GW2 does not really work, due to the Unshakable/Defiant buff mechanic. Since control is useless in dungeons, that leaves damage and support. Support is useful, but not nearly as useful as damage. The best support you can offer in GW2 PVE is to kill things fast, so they don’t kill you (and your comrades). So, DPS is king, and everything else is not. This dynamic essentially leads to zerging everything down, which is not nearly as interesting as traditional tank/healer/dps mechanics.

Stefanos.1673:

What people are too stupid to realise is that Ascended Items are not there to be obtained in a single day, neither the crafting is supposed to be leveled from 400 to 500 within 2 hours. I believe that these statements answer every question regarding the Ascended issue.

Gosh, thanks, Mr. Genius; that was so enlightening.

Kalgarr.5684:

Only thing removing the trinity ever did was not having to go out of your way to search for a tank or healer.

^ This. Traditional trinity gameplay is far more interesting.

The “damage/control/support” trinity that ANet put in place for GW2 does not really work, due to the Unshakable/Defiant buff mechanic. Since control is useless in dungeons, that leaves damage and support. Support is useful, but not nearly as useful as damage. The best support you can offer in GW2 PVE is to kill things fast, so they don’t kill you (and your comrades). So, DPS is king, and everything else is not. This dynamic essentially leads to zerging everything down, which is not nearly as interesting as traditional tank/healer/dps mechanics.

Morrigan.2809:

<snip>I have lost all desire to log in.

I can do all the things I have been doing- my question is why?
I can see that the game will eventually not support my play style anymore.<snip>

Same here. I used to really enjoy this game, and I thought it had a lot of potential, but since the last patch, I’ve played about 10 minutes. The only reason I can think of to log in now is to tell my guildies they won’t be seeing me around.

rjnemer.7816:

Also, CJ said at PAX that exotics were not intended to be so easy to get. Thats why they added ascended in the first place.

I don’t really buy that. If exotics were truly not intended to be so easy to get, why did they make them craftable? Why did they make them available for dungeon tokens? Why did they include them in the drop tables?

And then there’s this, taken from here :

“Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions – a lot of that is still up in the air and we’ll finalise a lot of those reward systems as we get closer to release. And those come off of things like the bosses at the end of dungeons – the raids.”

Colin’s statement at PAX strikes me as just spin and smokescreen, concocted to try and get people to shut up about ArenaNet’s about face on the ascended gear release.

Vayne.8563:

Without knowing their reasons for change, I don’t see how we can judge the change.

I disagree. If ANet makes a change to the game which radically changes the play style for a player, it’s certainly within their rights to judge that change, and we do not necessarily need to know what their rationale was for that change. As an example, let’s assume that ANet decided that jumping puzzles was a bad idea, so they patch them out. For players who love jumping puzzles, that would negatively impact their game experience. Those players would, almost certainly, have some judgment or opinion about the change.

Pre-release, the game was touted as one in which progression would be horizontal, and that end-game gear would be readily attainable by a new 80. They’ve changed that, and the new formula is more akin to the “business as usual” grind of many MMO’s out there. Many people are not happy with this change, and it is natural for them to have judgment about that change. To ask people to withhold that judgment until they have access to the reasons behind the change is unrealistic.

Vayne.8563:

And, for the most part, Anet isn’t sharing their reasons

Amen to that, Brother.

The answers to this question will be different 3-6 months from now. By then, there will most likely be Ascended armor available. When that happens, there will need to be new content tuned to ascended level stats, and/or the agony mechanic added to high level mobs. If ANet doesn’t start tuning content to Ascended level (or adding agony), people will complain that the game is too easy, and will quit playing.

This thread is pure gold.

Battered person syndrome? Not really. But it is rather like people who have eaten bad fast food hamburgers for so long that they’ve forgotten what a real hamburger tastes like.

That’s why I never played a Charr past level 5 or so. I can’t stand the bouncing run animation.

So far, I agree with every post in this thread.

No interest in either ascended or legendary.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Well this is a little…..aggravating…..and I was almost done too. Sitting at 3 of 4 last night, guess I’ll have to check when I log in tonight.

sigh

Same for me. Since I’m not at home, I have no way to check which monthlies got taken out. Anyone able to list them?