Guild Wars 2

JonathanSharp.7094:

So, quickly, on the design philosophy at play here (you can feel free to disagree, but this is what I feel):

We want the Thief to be the class that most “slips through your fingers”. Other classes like the Ele and Mes have some of it too (and rightly so), but if anyone is escaping a fight, that should be a slippery Thief.

The Necro, on the other hand, should be the dude you CANNOT get away from. It’s an attrition based class, so the idea is that if you lock horns w/ a necro, know what you’re getting into: you’re fighting a class that’s built for attrition. It can dot you, dps you, rip your boons, and severely hinder your movement. AND it also has the ability to soak up a lot of damage. So the longer the fight goes, the stronger the Necro should get. That’s the idea behind Death Shroud, but little escape ability.

So we don’t want that attrition class to also have great ways to escape. This used to be the case, and we felt the Necro was just too strong if it was great at attrition as well as movement/escape. We wanted the Necro to be more about attrition, and for other classes (Thief, Ele, Mes) to be more about escaping and mobility.

Hope that makes sense.

i play mesmer and necro and mesmer is MUCH tougher to both escape and kill, so I’m really not sure how your design philosophy is playing out. I have rarely played my necro since playing my mesmer since it does just everything better than the necro. Even with a tanky necro build my dps spec’d mesmer with zerk amulet can survive longer with clones/stealth/blinks/dazes/sword immunity/etc while still pumping out great dps. For my necro to survive anywhere near as long as my mesmer i have to fully kitten my dps and use some sort of crappy DS/toughness build.

1. faceroll pugs in free tournaments to earn 5 tickets
2. join paid tournament get facerolled in 1st match by elite premade, lose all tickets
3. repeat

result:

1. elite premades stuck with long queue, rage quitting
2. mid-tier premades rarely having close matches, rage quitting
3. casual solo queuers who hate 8v8 spvp rage quitting

because 8v8 is not fun?

4. keep paid as is, add premade/solo queues for free. If you want to farm tickets for paid tournaments you should still be playing other premades not pug stomping and pugs should not be forced to play spvp to avoid being stomped because as we all know spvp is a horrible zergfest.

TimeBomb.3427:

Solo queuing tpvp shouldn’t be possible IMO. It’s a tournament, it should require a full group to be queued together.

say good bye to casual players and the chance this game has to be an e-sport if solo queuers are stuck doing spvp

it’s not hard to add a solo queue bracket and premade bracket or just make higher level tournies more easily accessible

add join as team button and join as solo button, problem solved. other games do it.

For those of you who only linger in the pvp sub-forums:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Backstab-time-to-nerf/page/2#post601420

they should also remove spvp, i dont know anyone that enjoys it, they simply use it to grind because they get stomped in tournies

Levian.6742:

Have you ever had a child keep asking you for something? My answer is always “the more you ask me, the less likely I’m gonna give it to you”. I think they’re taking the same policy haha

except if children could quit having you as a parent instead of waiting they would lol

so you replaced a glass thief with glass warrior, huge gamble there…. drop the mesmer and guard for a ranger and engi and have a go, post your results here

samkong.2719:

Welcome to the Necromancer forums! I see you’re new here.

nah been on vacation expected to come back to major patching…

hackks.3687:

I don’t really see how adding ranking would increase the average skill level to produce more high end competition and reduce que times for that end of the ladder.

not that I’m against ranking. I just don’t see that as a fix for long ques where skill level determines the population.

I haven’t even done a paid tourney yet but I already saw this coming as elite groups are a distinct minority. My guess is custom tournaments based around events with an implemented spectator mode will be the only draw for high end competition.

but what do I know…

i meant not adding paid tournament and add rank/match making to free. so instead if waiting for 8 teams to pay it finds 8 closest rank teams and starts. they just add a pre set wait time to find someone within a predetermined rank range and if thats not met finds closest and starts. i thought there were then going to be anet sponsored monthly tournaments for top top teams.

nobody else is bothered by this? many of these bugs are going on 6 months counting beta…

if they had simply added ranking and match making to free tournament mode game would be 1000x bettee

Mathiuzz.4760:

my opinion is that , with roster 2eles ,guard,mes,thief we’ve won already like 90% of paid’s. Even vs Mace Stun,Super Squad,Five Alive,Team Tsunami. The key to success is communication and indyvidual skill of players.

wow no way you still won with the 3 required classes and 2 pick any class slots? /sarcasm

go play without a thief, guard and mesmer then post your win % along with the statement of skill > comp

pvp as a solo player is really bad experience in gw2 worse than any game ive played before. spvp is a zergy mess and tournies are just pug farming by premades. hopefully this gets addressed.

if someone has no defensive cooldowns up they should still not be able to be killed in 1.5 seconds, period.

bad premades are losing and going back to farming pugs in free tournies, therefore good premades will continue to have longer queue times and casuals will continue to be spawn camped in free tournies or stuck playing horrible hot join matches.

Until there is a ranking/ladder system this actually made things worse across the board in the big picture.

unfortunately anet only cares about being an e-sport, not realizing all the casuals are quitting due to how horrible spvp is.

no casuals = no spectators = failure as an esport

sucks they havent fixed barely any class bugs

This has been complained about since BWE1, they did some minor wording changes at one point but they are still pretty much crap for a 2012 mmo

Anet wants GW2 to be a popular E-Sport. Well being a popular e-sport is dependent on the casuals enjoying the game and watching the high level players. The thief in its current state is a perfect example of why Anet and MMOs in general struggle to be relevant E-Sports.

The thief is currently not considered OP by high level tournament players yet considered highly OP by casuals in spvp play. So what is Anet to do? They want E-sport first so do they leave as is? If they do, say bye bye to your casual player base which in turns lowers viewers/interest in e-sport matches and leaves you only with the high level players which in turn = failure as an e-sport. Or do they nerf thief making casuals happy but thus limiting and pigeonholing thief into a lower amount of viable builds.

The main problem is how easy it is to pull off high damage with a thief. If the skill level to pull off the damage was very high to the point casuals struggled to execute the combo, they would have no issues and only the elite players would be doing it consistently. But thanks to initiative/haste/and spammable abilities, this is not the case.

i dont know why anyone bothers streaming or running premades right now when 90% of your matches are pug stomping. I’m struggling to find a reason to login this past week+ without match making. Feels like if you solo queue you end up getting stuck in 5v4s or facing a premade. If you run a premade you stomp most of your matches to the point of boredom.

also here’s the image:

https://d2vn94glaxzkz3.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/october-2012-concept-6-FS.png

Cogbyrn.7283:

Two people have expressed positive interest, but neither gives a reason other than “I want it”.

Honestly curious: why do you want it?

i think it’s obvious. They play thief.

Seether.7285:

No, toughness is worthless, Armor is superior because it includes toughness + defense, which gives you your actual damage mitigation. A 1500 toughness Ele and 1500 Toughness Warrior are in very different boats regarding damage mitigation.

meh toughness/vit is a better comparison across professions for a quick view of how much someone has invested into defensive traits/gearing.

if you have 2k toughness everyone knows you have invested into toughness traits and gear.

obviously heavy armor has more mitigation over light armor with the same toughness.

For example if you are 1500 toughness/20k hp necro you’re glass. If you are 2k tough/26k hp you are not. Don’t need light armor factored in to know that.

< 10 points in your vit tree, < 10 points in your toughness tree and zerker amulet = glass cannon.

Also stop listing armor value, list hp and toughness.

you win 90% of your matches in tpvp as a premade because you play pugs 90% of the time. Tpvp is just as boring as spvp until they add rankings and match making.

@sylosi none of those games you listed are mmorpgs. GW2 = mmorpg

I think if they add an actual personal ranking ladder that is viewable by everyone people will be happy. They could even add little icons for people at various tiers of the ranking system. Like military type ranking icons for people in top .01%, top .5% top 1% etc.

whats the issue with portalling to repair treb? if you kill the treb and he drops a portal and runs off just stay there and wait. He’s not doing anything and neither are you so you still have an even 4v4 going on elsewhere.

just make 1 treb repair max per game or add a long timer to repair pops.

can we stop with all the WoW references. DAoC was probably the best pvp mmorpg ever and it had end-game pvp progression via Realm Ranks which rewarded titles and limited abilities that gave an ever so slight edge.

Oni.5429:

^Exaggerations are a dangerous thing when clever people act cleverly, wp.

Obviously, if you play tournament games you’ll find that you’ll never face 50 pugs in a row c:

regardless if you have lost 10% of your matches, when majority of those are vs pugs, i wouldnt consider yourself pro unless you lost to the same ~5 teams or so.

Lets be honest probably 70% of your games have been vs pugs since pugs make up the overwhelming majority of people queuing for tournament play. So out of say 300 games vs actual premades you have lost 100, not great stats for a “sponsored pro”

Oni.5429:

Well, I wouldnt call our team pro just yet but we (Synthetic Gods) have been sponsored and are sure as hell aiming for ’’pro’’

I bought this game for ONE reason and that was to go pro in it. I trusted Arenanets claims that they’ll make this an esport and I still do, I just wish they took a class on how to manage your community rather than constantly teasing us and keeping us in the dark.

I will admit that it’s frusterating to win 50 games in a row vs pubs and only get a decent matchup once in a blue moon where our focus has already deterioated massively because we are used to messing around and still win. This was enough for some of the super competitive people to go for mists of pandaria. One example is the guild Pokemon Warriors who actually did very well for themselves for a while, beating paradigm etc, they’ve all gone back to WoW simply because they want a ranked mode. Another example is Supersquad, while they havent quit for WoW they’re showing considerable inactivity untill a ranked mode pops up.

As for the balance complaints, learn to play, honestly. It’s so painful reading 8vs8 scrubs kitten in every single thread that elementalists, one of the most universally used proffessions in good teams are ’’underpowered’’ because they lose some 1v1 with their horrible build and play and for some reason thinks that is relevant for any esport at all.

This is not to say that the game is perfectly balanced, portal making mesmer the only close defend option, portal treb, staff ele vs treb are all problems but most of the probs are simply battle of khylo and all its pve elements, on the first two maps there is amazing variety in the choices of setups and strats you can run. The game shouldnt be balanced on noobs egos being bruised because they think them losing a 1v1 means that it either means they’re a inferior player or that the enemy class is op. It’s balanced and is supposed to be balanced around 5vs5 tournament play, where thieves that noobs constantly kitten about arent op and where elementalists and necros are amazing picks that most good teams take on (our team included)

Gah, I guess this is pretty rantish. I’ve been browsing through the forums every now and then due to what I suspect are masochistic traits hidden inside of me and felt like I had to vent against the stupidity I’ve read.

…
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SHAMELESS SELF PLUG: http://www.twitch.tv/helsethgw2/videos Streaming high level Mesmer pvp with team myRevenge Synthetic Gods! ~1k tournament games as Mesmer with ~900 of them being wins!

so you play vs good premades roughly 1 out of every 50 tournaments and have 1,000 total tournaments played and 100 losses, so you lose to every good premade you play?

cool world v world vid of guy in full 80 exotics fight lvl 10s boosted to 80, cool story bro.

I tend to agree, people play sports for fun but they still keep score, track your record and have playoffs at the end of each season. Simply playing against a mass of random people with no community, no rankings, no records, no stats, no playoffs, etc. gets boring and is quite pointless. Hell even beer league kickball teams track your record and have playoffs.

Spvp is currently a mindless zergest. Tourney pvp is premades stomping pugs and there is zero community with the exception of a handful of people who are forced to queue together to get into the same tournament, something Anet should have made possible at release.

Sports leagues, just like pvp-based games, become popular due to community, rivalries and balance (read: equal skill playing eachother). Currently GW2 pvp has none of this.

GW2 pvp is currently the equivalent to NFL pre-season games. Top players dont want to play, scrubs get playing time, and the commissioner wants fans to pay for it.

2 matches in a row, lost finals thanks to this. GG

he said l2p in a recent in game chat session that was posted here and on reddit

here found it:

and you can do that in WvW in fact. i do that every time i log into WvW. you can absolutely gank in WvW. the only reason for not beeing able to is if you are sucking. plain and simple. it the truth, i call it like i see

oh so he can tell players l2p but players cant tell him? lol. funny if true.

i could understand locking in necro forum since its a warrior pvp vid, but there is no reason to lock in the spvp forum.

Remember Jon Peters saying he was scared how powerful necros could be if they learned to use Death Shroud properly?

Check out his unique and out of the box usage of death shroud at the 5:28 point of this video:

Fear the borderline OP necro!

Top 5 only.

I’ll start.

1. Match Making/Ranking
2. Paid tournaments
3. Bug Fixes
4. Balance after 1-3
5. custom servers

Med, if you have 3 phantasams up they will kill someone in the downed state in much less than 15 seconds. Throw in some great sword auto attacks from maxed range and gg.

Mesmer is probably the best class at dealing with a 1v2 due to phantasams being able to deal significant damage to the downed player while you focus on the player still alive.

milo.6942:

While you guys are zerging, I run round the back and neut+cap your point for faster glory. thx mate

you are getting less glory though because you arent killing anyone just avoiding combat to flip nodes, the zerg is killing people and flipping nodes

Kneru.8014:

All they have to do is add points for people that are constantly standing in a node. People will be more likely to afk on the node then.

fixed.

Yet another reason why trying to balance around an e-sport will never work. If elite players find backstab build balanced and easy to counter but 90% of the playerbase is getting 1-shotted without a chance to react. What do you do?

lipstick all of those features were talked about in early betas. heck paid tournaments were working in betas. so its multiple months people have been expecting these features not just a month since release.

op as a mesmer you should have summoned your illusions and let them finish him or let them keep him downed while you wait and heal.

Happens to me every tournament since patch

Tyrion.5243:

So players who are not that great and only finish 5-9 place in tournaments, who still want to play in their own brackets against people equally skilled, have to farm gold in PvE or pay rl money in order to play tournaments (because the amount of tickets you get through chests is abysmal).
That doesn’t really motivate teams to get better.
I really thought the gem shop would be “just cosmetic” (and not be affecting PvP at all for that matter) but if this is really going to get patched into the game I will stop playing it. Every aspect of it. That is no threat, no one is going to miss me – but I would be really disappointed because of Anets decision making.

Instead of making the cash shop a mandatory part of PvP try adding some cosmetics on the cash shop that actually look good.

huh? players who arent that good wont be playing in paid tournaments, if they do they will get stomped by elite premades

no eta = dissapoint

balancing around the 1 percent elite players will result in problems because you will have the elite players finding something not over powered and all the lower level players will be getting owned and get discouraged and quit the game.

welcome to why mmos dont make good esports. you dont cater to the masses and they quit thus no spectator interest