It is funny when people complain about thief burst dmg while doing nothing to prevent it If they nerf the bs dmg, then all truly powerful builds will become more common (like bleeders or dazers) – that will become a scary day for those that are still having problems with backstabs.
so you always have full endurance and your defensive abilities are never on cooldown? you are beyond pro sir.
Well if I get ambushed without endurance and defensive utilities on cd most of the classes can kill me in a few second: war/thief/ele/mesmer/ even ranger have burst builds to kill unprepared people fast. Its just strange that only a burst thief gets most of the qq, yet being one of the weaker builds for this class.
please tell me how any of those classes can drop 15-20k damage (low end) in 1-2 seconds with zero setup. Btw i play mesmer and ranger regularly so dont lie. thanks.
It is funny when people complain about thief burst dmg while doing nothing to prevent it If they nerf the bs dmg, then all truly powerful builds will become more common (like bleeders or dazers) – that will become a scary day for those that are still having problems with backstabs.
so you always have full endurance and your defensive abilities are never on cooldown? you are beyond pro sir.
According to Jon Peters in the mists a few hours ago:
- The profession part of the upcoming patch notes is roughly 5 pages long.
- ~16 bullet points for rangers.
- ~30 bullet points for engis.
- Mesmers saw the fewest number of changes.
- “Tons” of bug fixes.
- “Some” balance changes.
- Portal is a cool ability that’s important to the game but has some problems (whatever that means from their perspective idk).
- The ability to use custom dyes in pvp is possibly coming in a December patch.
- Broken treb and lord announcements should be fixed soon.
- Target of target and player cast bars are low priority but something they might look at in the future.
- Probably no hope of ever letting us disable the terrible skill queue.
- Custom rankings, obs mode, etc. all “on the way” (as usual).
—
All in all, I think it’s pretty decent depending on what exactly gets fixed.
I’m level 22 doing starter zones and getting level 1-4 items from jump puzzles, champion bosses, etc. I thought you were supposed to get items equal to your actual level..
In my humble opinion the best quick-fix for the whole problem would be to introduce single/duo queue free tournaments (or just single games) with a strong matchmaking mechanic.
Best regards Pray
Great post and this part is a great idea. Simple, quick solution while they iron out a good ladder system. This way, queues will still be somewhat quick since many many people queue solo or with 1 other friend, and you won’t have to get throat punched in Khylo anymore!
You can already do this.
Cheers.
um, how?
and that’s your only response to this whole thread?
Pray.9751:
In my humble opinion the best quick-fix for the whole problem would be to introduce single/duo queue free tournaments (or just single games) with a strong matchmaking mechanic.
Best regards Pray
Yes please do this and expose the imbalance in this game even more. I am already losing interest in this game because of mesemers, warriors and thieves. You put in single and duo tournaments and the ridiculousness of these classes will be more exposed than ever. I can see it now. Dual thief teams killing teams in seconds. Guardian and warrior teams being unkillable. Lol. Yeah plz do this and help me finalize my decision to leave this imbalanced joke.
he means one tournament for 3-5 man premades and one tournament made up of solo/duo queuers who get matched together to form teams of 5..
uh pvp is already region wide, so they already have cross-server queues (i.e. all north american servers are grouped and all eu servers are grouped for pvp)
and to counter the QP issue you could just make QPs only rewarded in paid tournaments.
I don’t think you understood what he was saying. There is a region block, meaning we aren’t able to fight against the European teams and the asian teams which play super late at night. This means there could be teams with 1000 rating earning QP’s while the top 8 teams in the world could be slugging it out during prime time for a single QP.
There is currently no balance to the distribution of QP’s. My team usually jokes about the fact that when monthlies roll by there will only be 4 teams in it, and a 1 or 2 late night teams. That would be so fun to watch…..
So you add a joint qualifying tournament server like WoW did with Arena.
I’ve been meaning to make a post about this for a while, to combat the ignorance that simply having a ladder system with “MMR” would fix anything. The problem is so far removed from a ladder system that no one seems to understand. The real issue is the population interested in PvP as a whole. Everyone who has a decent PvP team knows eachother, and the amount of which is probably countable on your fingers. If a ladder system was thrown up it would become very similar to what happened in SWTOR when they threw in “rated warzones” without cross server queues, one team dominates everyone and there is the “big fish, little pond syndrome” same thing would happen here. The only thing I could see “helping” the situation would be to abandon the tournament style all-together and just set up single matches, but that is entirely debatable as to how effective that would be with our current population.
There is also the fact that implementing such a system would destroy the QP monthly and yearly tournament idea, or botch it in such a way that it would also need to be completely reworked. You cannot rewards QP to say a 1000 rated player when a tournament of 8 teams rated 2000 or higher rewards only 1 QP. Logically speaking the way the tournaments are set up currently is completely fine IF they had the population to support it, which currently is not playing the game.
uh pvp is already region wide, so they already have cross-server queues (i.e. all north american servers are grouped and all eu servers are grouped for pvp)
and to counter the QP issue you could just make QPs only rewarded in paid tournaments.
Sorry, new content isn’t going to solve anything. The pvp in this game simply isn’t fun.
it’s fun if you have a 5v5 match that is 500-490 with equally skilled players on both teams, but as it is now its extremely rare to get a match like this in free tournies.
Agree 1000% and have been saying this in multiple threads.
Another thing I would add is small amount of xp for structured pvp to try and draw more of the player base into pvp and hopefully get them hooked. Of course no point in adding this until there is match making, otherwise they would see how horrible 8v8 is or get stomped in free tournament and go back to pve forever.
downed state is basically required since they thought no healers was a good idea. it sucks but its how they designed it. i would have much rather they added healers and remove awful downed, but wont happen.
You can just zerg surf and level up in WvW doing absolutely nothing, so why not give at least SOME xp for structured PvP where you are at least fighting other people most of the time, not just afking at a keep door.
Ladder will not solve anything becouse number of teams playing paids is extemely low.
And Anet, why game support cant do anything with missed rewards for paids? I’ve lost my tickets and didn’t get anything becouse of gamebug, and support says they can do nothing with it.
Ladder will not solve anything because the whole idea of PAY to join a pvp game is just not appealing to the vast majority of people.
If GW2 tPvP ever wants to be a popular eSport, they need to make ladder games without requiring ppl to PAY. And then invite the top 100 ranked teams for Tournament at the end of every season.
at least a ladder will make free tournaments fun. I don’t really know anyone, aside from the masochists who enjoy 8v8, who is enjoying pvp at the moment. With most free tourney matches being premade vs pug, nobody on either side is having fun.
I think if they add a ladder to free tournament and/or split premade and pug queues AND add small amount of xp for s/t pvp, we would really see an influx in pvp populations.
I’m not talking about nerfs/buffs I’m talking about legitimate class bug fixes. Go look in every class forum they have a sticky of 50+ bugs per class, necro was over 100 at one point not sure if it’s still above now or not. They need to have a massive wave of fixes for broken class mechanics/traits.
Anet has been the slowest company I have seen with class bug fixes despite all their hype about how their engine allows for on the fly fixes and patching.
Funny how every single patch was another ‘breakpoint’ for you guys. First the devblog, which didnt come out for ages, then the ’balance’patch and now this. Wondering how many people really leave the game after they didnt get what they want, because by that logic, no one should be playing right now.
look at the amount of hot join matches or tournament queue times. many have quit.
there has only been a handful of class bug fixes since beta/ release. mainly just pve contet bug fixes and other fluff. if there is not 10-20 major class/trait bug fixes with this patch i will be extremely disappointed.
I think the dev was attempting to say that a necro’s strong suit is control, if we trait for it. Being “inescapable” doesn’t necessarily mean being able to 1v1 everyone. It means being able to lock people down while our buddies beat them senseless.
Whether or not that’s true is open for debate, but I don’t think it was anyone’s intention for any class to be the king of 1v1 all the time.
it’s not true, even spec’d to max chill/fear/ whatever. most classes can escape with ease. I don’t care how you are spec’d on my mesmer I can escape any necro spec with stun/blink/stealth and can keep nearly any class in combat and in my range with phantasams, stun, blink.
glass cannon thieves can melt people that have no defensive cooldowns/endurance remaining.
I’d be happy if they made glass cannon necros should be able to do the same with bleeds if the target has no condition removal remaining. There should have some way to ramp up bleed damage over time beyond just maintaining stacks to make them bigger threats when spec’d properly.
Maybe some way to make power to increase bleed damage over time or something, idk but currently necros are just lame.
The funny part is that they do have a working AI in their code. Mesmer clones and ranger pets don’t have this idling problem.
Rangers have a PET ATTACK command. Mesmer phantasams can only be summoned with a target already locked and in range.
That’s the difference. I have said since beta minion masters would be utterly worthless, in pvp at least, without a pet aggressive/passive command and have been proven right. It’s so easy for any team with a brain to completely negate the minions, even if AI were working flawlessly. About the only thing they are good for is 1v1s and only if they don’t bug out.
part of it is just less people pvping too. You can just look at the number of spvp games going and queue times for free tournaments are going up and not sure if anyone is able to do paid tournaments outside of prime time. The power outages are really limited to 3 states and coastal areas only.
So I’m kinda sick of pvp at the moment since there is no ranking or match making for tournaments leaving most games to be a stomp 1 way or the other, so I decided to roll an engi pve alt.
I’m still low level but picked up the grenade kit.. which seems to do more damage than pistol or rifle, so why should i not just sit in grenade kit and blow up mobs in 2-3 hits all day?
is there a point where the community shrinks too small to be salvageable?
in your guys’ opinion – is guild wars already at this tipping point?
as far as an e-sport goes yes. as far as the game goes, sort of.
paid tournies are already basically past the tipping point as the queue times are so long barely anyone bothers anymore. Even free tourny queue times are slowly increasing as there is no match making or rankings causing good teams to get bored of stomping pugs and pugs raging at having to face premades all the time. That only leaves spvp as an option which is an 8v8 zerg mess that many people hate. As someone with limited time who enjoys doing tournies against other casual teams ive actually gone back to try and level an alt in PvE until they fix PvP.
The reason I didn’t become revealed when I shot my arrows is because you dodged and blocked them all. This is just part of the game.
What ended up happening is my stealth ran out, and if you look carefully you should notice that I become targeted the instant I get out of stealth. The only problem is my character does not become fully opaque until a second later (which is the rendering issue they are going to fix). But that isn’t a big deal because I was targeted regardless.
Getting a fire sigil and air rune proc at the same time is just lucky.
Also, I have to say it……. I get absolutely blown up by glass cannon eles. I dodged both phoenix and fire grab at the start which would have destroyed me. Eles can put out just as much burst damage as I can on my thief. You just have to hit me with it first. I lose 1v1 almost every time to an ele in my guild. So, I’m sorry I have to say this, but there is a skill issue here.
there’s no point in even addressing random 8s. If they reward capping/defending more than skirmishing people will just circle cap more than they already do and avoid fighting. if they reward winning more people will just quit and re-join other games more since there is no penalty. They need to just focus on tournies imo.
I seriously think you overestimates TP and other “e-sports teams”. I have yet to see a streamed TP (or other teams like team lunatic or team legacy) match where they “own” the enemy team. Even if you only manage to hold 1 point through the whole game you will roughly lose to 500-250.
And I dont mind losing badly to a team, as long as I know I’ve done my best And learned what to do differently/better (aka improved myself). There just is no way you will improve when “owning” other players.
How can the idea that to improve yourself in a Player versus Player enviroment is a bad one? You think the “best players” just was born that good? I promise you, there was a time when they got roflstomped as well. It actually All boils down to how fast you can improve yourself. And please dont give me no talk about that you, he or I can not improve enough to beat them, because that is just down-talking.
so you think if you lost 500-250 and kept playing against TP you would eventually beat them and become a professional sponsored team yourself? And I’m the making crazy statements? lol ok in that case every single team would be elite eventually, which is absurd. Any game/sport with ratings/ladders has proven this and I’m not sure why you are trying to debate it. There will be elite teams and mediocre teams forever.
the idea to improve yourself is good, but everyone has a ceiling. And what you continue to utterly fail to understand is that with the current system, those mid tier teams that just dont have time to play and practice as much as pro teams are stuck either playing against elite teams in paid tournies or pugs in free tournies, occasionally by luck getting matched up with an equal skill team in a free tournament.
TLDR, mid-tier teams (which exist in every game/sport in the history of the world) rarely play fun competitive matches with the current system.
Last reply: Thank you for your insight, although I do not agree. I will not keep the debate going, just wanted to point out that your whole reasoning is based on the simple fact that the “mid-tier” teams are wastly out-numbered compared to the low-tiered teams. The only explanation I can see is that you probably are a low-tier player that Thinks he is a mid-tier one?!
omg WTF are you talking about? Teams that lose to TP 500-250 are mid tier. If you lose to TP in the first round of a paid tournament (after waiting for 30 minutes) you lose your tickets and have to go back to free tournaments where you play vs PUGS 99% of your matches, what is fun about playing against pugs to earn tickets only to go back and play against TP for one game after waiting 30 minutes??
What is fun and competitive about that???
I don’t know how else to explain it, you just don’t understand. Do you even do tournament play?
if they added a ladder/ranking system and separated premade vs solo in free tournament everyone would be playing fun competitive matches and not a single person would be complaining about anything involving tournament play except meta and class balance which is how it should be.
and Rythgar please stop bringing up rewards and “lower tier” nonsense, the rewards are cosmetic, nobody asking for these changes gives a crap about gear and rewards, they want fun competitive matches against equally skilled players and currently neither spvp or free tournaments offer this for casual players and solo queuers.
If your answer to everyone is just “get better l2p” you’ll end up with a dead game on your hands because casuals are the majority and the audience for e-sports.
Point taken, and I agree. But there is just kinda So much you can ask of your game developers. They can’t very well program a perfect match making system (surprise surprise there is none..).
The first and best step you can do is to actually just create a team and go for it. Because the sPvP is based around 5vs5 right? kinda logical really? no?
And then when you have a team you can take the good, bad and boring matches togheter, and hopefully ArenaNet will implement some kind of ladder system or alike, that will improve the match making some.
Oh but, for the ladder system (or basically any other decent match making) to work you kinda need to have teams to rate, don’t you?
Anyways, I might be a bit harsh and my solutions might not be in your taste, or optimal for some, but they are in my eyes the most logical, do-able and realistical.
But if you want to keep QQ’ing about the system and it’s design then please go ahead I’m sorry the discussion could not be more rewarding.
again dude, for mid-tier teams there are no competitive matches. You are either facing elite team in paid or pugs in free. What. Do. You. Not. Understand.
it’s like im talking to a wall.
separating free tournament to pug and teams would be a simple step to solve this with ranking to follow to match even better.
I seriously think you overestimates TP and other “e-sports teams”. I have yet to see a streamed TP (or other teams like team lunatic or team legacy) match where they “own” the enemy team. Even if you only manage to hold 1 point through the whole game you will roughly lose to 500-250.
And I dont mind losing badly to a team, as long as I know I’ve done my best And learned what to do differently/better (aka improved myself). There just is no way you will improve when “owning” other players.
How can the idea that to improve yourself in a Player versus Player enviroment is a bad one? You think the “best players” just was born that good? I promise you, there was a time when they got roflstomped as well. It actually All boils down to how fast you can improve yourself. And please dont give me no talk about that you, he or I can not improve enough to beat them, because that is just down-talking.
so you think if you lost 500-250 and kept playing against TP you would eventually beat them and become a professional sponsored team yourself? And I’m the making crazy statements? lol ok in that case every single team would be elite eventually, which is absurd. Any game/sport with ratings/ladders has proven this and I’m not sure why you are trying to debate it. There will be elite teams and mediocre teams forever.
the idea to improve yourself is good, but everyone has a ceiling. And what you continue to utterly fail to understand is that with the current system, those mid tier teams that just dont have time to play and practice as much as pro teams are stuck either playing against elite teams in paid tournies or pugs in free tournies, occasionally by luck getting matched up with an equal skill team in a free tournament.
TLDR, mid-tier teams (which exist in every game/sport in the history of the world) rarely play fun competitive matches with the current system.
and Rythgar please stop bringing up rewards and “lower tier” nonsense, the rewards are cosmetic, nobody asking for these changes gives a crap about gear and rewards, they want fun competitive matches against equally skilled players and currently neither spvp or free tournaments offer this for casual players and solo queuers.
If your answer to everyone is just “get better l2p” you’ll end up with a dead game on your hands because casuals are the majority and the audience for e-sports.
To be honest, if I’d put it to the extreme I could just pick up your arguments and request that they dont let e-sports teams play on the paid tournaments, because my “normal” premade is getting beaten by teams like Paradigm etc.
no applying your argument to that situation would go like this: if you faced team paradigm or equivalent the first match of every tournament losing 500-50 would your team be having fun? I could just say well get better team mates or better communication otherwise go play spvp.
I said to use His arguments…not Mine! Please read my post correctly before you quote it. Thank you.
i used your argument on purpose because it was a bad one. You are telling him to get better. If you were facing TP and getting stomped, I could say the same thing to you, just get better. but chances are you, and the majority of players will never be able to even get within 200 points of TP no matter how much you play and practice.
Go start playing golf 8 hours a day ever day for the next 10 years, guess what, you still won’t be a pro in 10 years.
Quick fix, improve on the paid tournaments against better teams and rise to the rank of “elite premade”.
As I see it there is three reasons why you enjoy PvP.
1) You like to “pwn” and generally own people, in this case just stick to your #1.
2) You enjoy comparing your skills against other players, and get your kicks from improving and “beating yourself”. In this case see the matches against “elite premades” as much needed practise.
3) You both enjoy improving yourself and your teamplay And defeating other players. In this case just do both 1 and 2.
thats great but not everyone has the ability to reach the elite level and thus are stuck in this never ending cycle. Both teams and individual players have caps on their ability just like with real life. There’s just certain athletes no matter how hard they try they will never, ever be pros.
It’s like saying oh sorry your division 3 college basketball team is facing the miami heat in the 1st round of each tournament, just go take your team and play against pick-up teams in playground tournaments, eventually you’ll be as good as the miami heat kitten
To be honest, if I’d put it to the extreme I could just pick up your arguments and request that they dont let e-sports teams play on the paid tournaments, because my “normal” premade is getting beaten by teams like Paradigm etc.
no applying your argument to that situation would go like this: if you faced team paradigm or equivalent the first match of every tournament losing 500-50 would your team be having fun? I could just say well get better team mates or better communication otherwise go play spvp.
most classes that want to escape a necro can (mesmer, thief, ranger, ele) can all easily disengage from a necro. The only classes that can’t very well are warriors and guardians but they are melee and want to stay in range anyways.
also the necro is STILL so horribly buggy it cant even reach whatever potential you want, must people dont even run with corrupt boon anymore since it simply misses for no reason and goes on cooldown more than it lands. This was reported since BWE1. So talking about all this great philosophy doesn’t really mean much until you address the tons of bugs that still exist.
It was said last night that a lot of what we think are bugs aren’t. But of course we have no idea which are and which aren’t, which is really getting to me.
ok well if corrupt boon is working as intended it’s worthless and needs to be re-done. increase the CD if you must just make it land 100% for kitten sake
pugs should not be forced to play spvp to avoid being stomped because as we all know spvp is a horrible zergfest.
Not only that but sometimes it STILL feels like going up against a premade lol on many occasion in spvp it seems the enemy team just all decided to type madly and coordinate insanely and just 3 cap us right away and completely destroy us, just like what happens to me in tpvp. I NEVER end up on THAT team.
its because the winning team has 8 people from the start, the losing team constantly has people quitting and new people filling the slots which snowballs. So even though it looks like you have 8v8 you rarely have all 8 on the field because you have quitters and fillers.
There are a lot of professions out there that have higher bursts than thieves and also higher survivability, if they are to nerf thieves AGAIN thous profession should get the same treatment.
what other class can pull 15k in 1.5sec with little to no skill or setup required?
also the necro is STILL so horribly buggy it cant even reach whatever potential you want, must people dont even run with corrupt boon anymore since it simply misses for no reason and goes on cooldown more than it lands. This was reported since BWE1. So talking about all this great philosophy doesn’t really mean much until you address the tons of bugs that still exist.
If they nerf the bs dmg, then all truly powerful builds will become more common (like bleeders or dazers) – that will become a scary day for those that are still having problems with backstabs.
