Guild Wars 2

Svarty.8019:

Perhaps claiming keeps is an attempt to galvanise and stimulate opponents?

I think that is a good idea in a general sense. When a match is competitive knowing ANet is in there playing is a very good thing.

When a server is struggling against significantly more populated servers it probably isn’t a good time to mark an outmatched servers most prominent structure.

For context, YB was snaking Garri while DB was trying to stop a Mag zerg from taking its only T3 keep (Lowlands). While the EBG keep fell to Mag, ANet stamped Garri with their tag. This happened last week with SBI holding and making DBs Bay T3 with an Anet tag as well. It just felt like ANet was pouring on not trying to motivate.

In WvW there are a half dozen thieves that can beat me consistently but I haven’t seen any of them in a long time. The best thief in our guild doesn’t play any longer. The BLNT/Hunt fellow is a strong player and clipped me a couple times last night but had to do it with numbers.

At the end of the day what is the criteria for best in WvW? I am a strong dueler but I run a thief buster build. If I were locked into a D/P stealth build, most of the better players would tear me apart. If it is kittening off an entire server, Pink probably owns that one.

Force and Draining are superior to both of these. Similar with Condi builds. Ruthlessness won’t beat Force until at least two Ints land in 3s and then it is only good for those 3s. Force is always on and basically akin to running at least 5 stacks of might all the time.

Absorption would be great if it went through Stab and Blocks but it doesn’t. The only time it is clearly worth having is against resistance builds when running condi. I carry an offhand pistol with the sigil for just such occasions but otherwise the more general sigils are better.

I can’t speak to raid content where group buffs may be vastly more important but in every other portion of PvE the thief is one of the easiest classes to do content on. Don’t take SA, take CS with Invigorating Precision. It is a giant game changer for the class. S/P or Staff with P/P is easy mode.

Dontral.7490:

Feel bad for yah, but CD has been like this for the past few MONTHS. Constantly outnumbered, little coverage, being matched against servers with 2-3 times the population (including yours btw), being bumped up into T3, having T3 servers dumped on us (two this week), having the Desert Borderland almost every week… Almost every bad combination of links and match-ups you can imagine we have been through.

Agreed and by no means am I trying to say any given situation is worse that another. Many servers often for months go through this.

Being unable to hold even a single T3 WP keep during prime playing hours is a serious problem that has gone unaddressed for far too long.

As has been pointed out a ridiculous number of times, Ghost Thief is NOT a trap build. Ghost Thief runs exactly one trap and doesn’t use Trapper runes. Pretty much everybody except ANet knows Ghost Thief is a problem and should be fixed. Posting here won’t get ANet’s attention. Try Reddit.

It flows better with that shorter aftercast for me. I have not seen any issues with missing targets. Weapon swapping during Vault was intentional if I remember correctly. This update also stopped the Steal/Vault trick. It was very difficult to time but was OP when it worked. It has always had the issue of a second Vault not traveling if it was activated too soon. That actually got better with this patch IMO.

The nerfs in sPvP need to find their way into WvW.

DeceiverX.8361:

Pre-80, at what I believe is around level 30 or so (to have the points for traits and utils), D/D will offer substantially better killing speed without balling massive numbers of mobs since one can spec into CS for HK and crit every stab. The 100% stab crit rate will easily offset the non-crits on the 8 hits from PW, and the combined coefficient will allow typically one kill per cast of CnD + Stab. Dagger AA out-cleaves P/W as well, The only advantage to P/W is the evade frames, which typically aren’t seen as worthwhile since in open-world BP on D/P will normally provide enough negation to avoid taking hits if the defense is needed, and is generally more efficient on negation per initiative.

Backstab at best has a 3s cooldown and again is single target. Also Dagger does not cleave. Sword out damages dagger significantly once the mobs grow past 2. S/P doesn’t need stealth, doesn’t need to be primed with SA, CnD, BP/HS, etc. Nearly every drop of init is DPS, healing and evasion.

Even prior to IP, it is a solid weapon set in PvE because of those evades. The fact that it comes with condi removal without having to trait is a nice bonus as well.

Any weapon works for the most part but in my opinion S/P with SB early on is a really difficult weapon set to match for versatility and straight up damage. Particularly since it ports from mob to mob and needs no priming.

It is sad when DB map chat became excited because Mag was taking garri so we didn’t have to see that ANet tattoo on garri. This game breaks my heart sometimes and this week after the last one is certainly trying.

Last of my guild to play and tonight I find myself wondering why I keep going.

Well stop rubbing salt in the wound anyway. DB is getting hammered by two MUCH more populated servers. Claiming DB’s garri when their tick is less than 50 is just dee bagg ery.

Happened all last week from SBI as well. If you want to “enjoy” WvW, how about growing some courage and going onto the low pop server for the week.

Anet might as well give Guardians full time speed without having to work for it in the build. The class has easy access to almost everything else now including a few mechanics no other class has access to. Guardian is the strongest WvW class and it now dominates in all modes of WvW.

No other class has been as strong as Guardian since launch. The class has hardly ever seen a buff go unused and rarely seen a nerf that impacted its game play significantly unlike virtually every other class.

So yeah, lets give it that last mile… free speed because we know in the next expansion Shadow Guard or similar is going to be a thing.

SixVoltCar.5248:

Krait lake was removed to accomodate people who lacked the ability to grasp combat in zero gravity, EOTM taint spilled over into red BL, where it remains, festering and skewing matchup statistics, upgrades are automatic (the only positive change).

Underwater combat is a mess and a lot of extra work particularly since any balance is seen only in WvW. It was a massive waste of development resources for a checkbox very few cared about.

I will point out yet again the score doesn’t fix any of the problems in WvW. Changing the score doesn’t fix population or coverage issues. Score changes don’t make the game more fun.

Changing the scoring in WvW is akin to performing a nose job while the patient is bleeding out from a gunshot wound.

Can this post be more relevant after this weeks matchup settings?

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Venoms don’t become more powerful, just because they get applied by a trap instead of something else. Thief can already run venoms + traps, but nobody does it, because a thief is a free kill without any defensive utilities, unless he sits in stealth permanently. Which he can’t, if he wants to apply those venoms. With or without traps.

They absolutely do become more powerful. The biggest advantage is that the trap is triggered independently from its cooldown. So I can drop a trap, wait for a player to get close, activate a series of venoms, player hits trap, venoms apply, steal to player for confusion/poison/more venom, drop same trap again with more venom because it has been off cooldown for a while, heal for another trap with venom and apply rune condi.

All that happens before I have to do the first counter. The next counter is going to be dodging (more venom) and using SB evade. If it goes sideways, Shadowstep.

In about 25s, I will be ready for another full rotation with virtually no chance any harm comes to me. It doesn’t kill a player from stealth, but its application is significantly higher.

It will. But logging into this after being a punching bag last week is irritating. More irritating is the system is rewarding servers tanking on purpose.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

I don’t see an issue with venoms. A thief has already tons of ways to apply those, a few skills more won’t change anything. Traps would deal dmg on trigger, like ranger/dh’s traps do and thief’s traps used to do in the past. Nothing strange about it. Mesmer doesn’t has traps …

You really don’t understand how powerful venom can be if you believe this. Adding more poison, torment and basilisk on a trap would be an insane opener. Keep in mind traps go through blocks, two can be dropped near instantly. Add on Basilisk through a condi steal that cuts through blocks as well… yeah. Give me that build I will make you wish Ghost was back instead.

The matches are an absolute joke this week. DB couldn’t even come close to beating SBI so DB moves up to face a former T1 server while SBI stays in T4 clobbering. HoD in T2?

At this point it looks purposeful to drive players off servers. If you want WvW dead, just turn it off rather than beat it to death with intent.

Thief in PvE is god mode. Trait Invigorating Precision, equip P/P and Staff. You are now the biggest damager in the game with a great AoE, fast travel, spammable Interrupt and a healing machine. I can face tank most mobs with Staff and those bosses that tend to Alpha Strike, switch to P/P and Unload them into the ground.

Rink.6108:

About the suggestions that make it harder to contest a waypoint: this would mean that the defenders have less time to react, if there is a real attack as well, making defending a lot harder. So for example the attackers could freely take down all siege on outer without being detected before the defenders noticing the attack. If I scout I only notice the attack because of the “contesting” event.

Contesting a keep and contesting a waypoint can be two separate things. I believe all guards should report activity near them much like the Veteran Scouts do now.

Sad part is that happens in half the NA tiers now. Good job Glicko/RNG.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

It is not about adding dmg to the application of condis, it is adding dmg to skills that apply condis.

As noted earlier, adding damage to a skill causes it to trip Venoms. Sure it might pop stealth but it will also apply a wicked amount of Poison and/or Torment in the right builds. Also, how would traps work. They cannot apply damage when they are used and if they apply damage when they are tripped, ouch Venom problem.

Adding reveals to Condi application is sort of OK but some skills such as traps would play VERY strange. Most stealth Mesmer builds wouldn’t work at all.

I keep circling the same solution… kill Stealth Stacking (and adjust some traits/skills as needed).

The loot system in GW2 (and GW1) are atrocities to RPG development. The lack of a jackpot style system has driven out a lot of players and the removal of the RNG from stats has severely limited replay.

The score is only a symptom and not the actual problem. Tweaking the score doesn’t change population balance or coverage issues. All it does is mask the problem.

Server linking was a band aid to that underlying condition. It sort of worked in that it creates some better matches and fixes the stale issue. Unfortunately they left Glicko and the RNG in the mix so matches still become lopsided.

For PvE before Dare Devil, Shotbow (movement) and Sword/Pistol (Pistol Whip). After Dare Devil in PvE, Staff (movement/Vault) and Pistol/Pistol (Unload against dangerous melee bosses). FYI, Invigorating Precision on an S/P build is god mode in PvE.

DeceiverX.8361:

Pre-60, there’s very little need to build into mass-cleave. I answered the OP’s question in full and for the future. No reason to oppose providing extra info for the future. Plus the wiki as of when I last looked at Vault, is incorrect in its coefficient, which is why I answered about it.

Pistol Whip is flat out the hardest hitting ability the thief has. Nothing has a higher DPS before chained attacks. Chained unloads on a single target do more damage thanks to the Might buff but that is easily offset by its horrific AA.

Cleave in PvE is important for clearing mobs, healing and should not be underestimated in PvP modes either. Pistol Whip hits like a truck on multiple targets, evades while it is doing it, opens with a Daze and procs the hell out of IP. Backstab is a good 30% less damage, positional, needs to be primed and is single target. Dagger AA is better but only marginally after the Sword buffs and falls off against more than 2 targets.

Staff surpasses S/P with full AoE, a faster chain, better multipliers and its ability to replace Shortbow for most travel needs. Until Dare Devil, S/P is a clear winner in my book at least in PvE.

babazhook.6805:

I still do not think they can do that to thief without rework of SA. Removal of stealth stack just demolishes that line.

Added to that there utility removed from Combo fields such as smoke with SB to stealth a group. a 3 second stealth using that combo is just not worth it for ini spent. Innate to the design of fields is you can use them for more then one iteration of a given finisher otherwise why have them persist?

We have been over our disagreements on this in other threads so I won’t rehash those. I do agree if they remove Stealth Stacking (which I believe is a VERY good change) that a handful of skills/traits would need some adjustment to their cost or duration. I would suggest lowering Black Powder’s cost in conjunction as an example.

Not trying to neuter a weapon set or trait line, but would like to see more counter play options open up against heavy stealth and see more skilled play requirements (on most classes).

T3/T4 seem to be where the fights are for now but that can all change in a week either through re-linking or stacking. SBI is stacked right now and easily a T2 server (maybe a T1 server). Somehow they landed in T4 but even with the lopsided fighting, the fights are still fun and will likely get better when they move back where they belong.

babazhook.6805:

Damage on traps would still allow Ghost thief. Not as potent a version but if we talking two or more working in concert the outcome the same. (ie 22 confusion and double caltrops as a condi burst and a pair working together )

I would argue damage on traps is more potent due to unintended consequence. Namely Venoms would start working on traps and let me tell you that is an entirely new kind of condi evil. Certain attacks not procing damage on the thief is a good thing in some cases.

I know I drone on about this… the problem isn’t the attack it is the stealth. Fixes to the attack system could simply make things worse.

Condi is very strong on most classes in small scale meta and it doesn’t take three stats for big damage unlike power. With condi there is little trade off between survival and DPS. A person is almost a fool not to go Dire/Trailblazer save for a few exceptions (typically evasion, stealth, passive defense builds built around Commanders, Marauders or similar).

The only thing holding Trailblazer back is the insane cost for ascended or we would see a lot more of it.

It is a skill that punishes poor play and has dozens of counters. Its base damage is strong but it cannot crit making its total DPS weak on most thieves. Coupled with Draining Sigil (which also cannot crit) it hits for upwards of 5k on power builds. It compares poorly to a single Unload, Vault, or Backstab with crits in the mix. Sadly a full rotation of dagger AA is stronger and that is before crits.

So if you or any of your friends are dying to Head Shot spam, it is a “learn to counter” issue. Typically stopping the auto attack from being an auto is the first step.

I know I am a broken record but Stealth Stacking has been OP since launch.

No class should be able to stealth up to an enemy, drop a ton of DPS and vanish 3s later for an undetermined amount of time with so few counter play options. Ghost took an already OP system to an absurd level.

DeceiverX.8361:

You could easily rebuild your old build, exactly as it was before. It doesn’t mean it’ll be any good because the rest of the game is powercreeped and D/D generally is a worthless piece-of-trash weapon combo for power now thanks to terrible profession design and the stealth attack ICD.

Partial trait lines allowed players to dip into SA, Trickery, etc without having to go all the way in. The new trait system is very restrictive and while the weapon sets remain their effectiveness has been diminished (P/P, S/P, D/D) or in some cases nearly destroyed (S/D, P/D).

For example, many went 20 into SA for for 1s extra stealth and stealth on steal. This left room to put a few points into Trickery for extra init or to pick up Mug. Even moving some traits around such as Executioner from CS was a nerf.

glass.3245:

Thief is designed to be a solo roaming class – if you go one on one with a good thief in WvW you should expect to die. Especially if you’re a squishy build that can’t cope with 10k damage.

You are partially correct. Thief is designed around solo roaming but it is just a mediocre dueling class. Its primary fighting style is catching weak or injured players and cutting off zerglings. Its primary advantage is to escape or reset.

Problem is most non-thieves get mad when two thieves blow them up in a couple seconds, hit them when they are running to a zerg or just get frustrated when one won’t stay still long enough for their slow big damage build to beat it. I sympathize with those that gripe about limited counter play (or none at all against a Ghost). The others are just salty.

I can think of no better way to feed my Bloodlust than to save a life… oh wait.

Boysenberry.1869:

B ) The Perma-Tapping-Thief is no threat to players since most of them run away at the sight of even a rank 1 newbie.

Careful with that assumption. Some tappers are just annoying… others are looking for a few suckers to take the bait. After about 10 minutes, I typically have a nice line of people to kill.

My guess is you got hit by 2+ Ghost Thieves. A single one can stack up a decent amount of condi but 2+ can drop so much that players roll over dead before they know what hit them.

There are only a handful of solid guilds left so not sure you are going to find exactly what you are looking for. tRex is probably the most pound for pound lethal guild left and the only one I actively avoid when they are running 4+.

My suggestion is to pick a cheap server, hang out for a while and see if you like it. Basically don’t overthink it.

Anet still hasn’t figured out that the end game of virtually every good RPG is buried in the loot engine.

zinkz.7045:

Thanks for the laughs.

So your plan would be to keep Glicko and the ridiculous RNG moves that continually happen? It is easy to take a pot shot without contributing.

ThunderPanda.1872:

I doubt relinking every week would be healthy to the community.

Not saying we should relink every week. What I am saying is having the algorithm set the server matches each week doesn’t work well. A total moron could do a better job setting which servers should move up/down than the automated system. Basically the same system only a human decides if a server goes up or down.

Brigand.9502:

I’m amazed at how many people don’t understand, know, or care about stealth traps and revealed skills. Most times it’s hilarious to watch as 10 or more people chase them around in circles. I can almost hear the Yakety Sax music playing…

I run a thief without stealth or Unhindered Combatant and nothing catches me unless I stop to fight. It is nearly impossible to catch a thief that doesn’t want to stop running. Even if after hours of flipping a side and contesting, I die (and it usually takes hours) I just run back in about a minute.

I do reserve my tapping antics to winning servers with a T3 SMC or when another side does it to us. At any rate it is a cheap mechanic and relatively unfair but meta is meta.

With re-linking now being a valid form of rebalancing tiers and creating some variety in matches, it is time to finally slay the Glicko dragon and make manual server tier moves each week.

Take this week with SBI getting thrown down into T4. It was bad for T4 and it is bad for T3. HoD should have moved down if any server at all yet the RNG basically kittened all of T4 to a week long blow out rather than a fairly close match like last week.

T1 is its own problem so I won’t get into that but Glicko nor the RNG is going to fix that either. Relinking and adjusting tiers manually are great tools to keep WvW competitive as populations change.

Turk.5460:

This is a non-issue, contesting a keep to prevent waypoint usage is a valid tactic that has been around for years. The fact that it inconveniences you since you have to run slightly further to get to your destination – means that this tactic is working.

For it to be a “valid” or more importantly fair tactic, there needs to be a counter to it. Right now no counter exists that can stop a thief from constantly contesting a keep WP.

In contrast, cutting off supply is a “valid” tactic because players can escort yaks and guard camps. They at the very least have a chance. No such chance exists when a thief just has to fart when going near a guard to contest the entire keep.

Basically no single player should be able to effectively undo what took hours to obtain and impacts an entire map’s population at least without some reasonable ability to defend against it.

It only takes about 10 stacks of burning, confusion or poison to drop a player fast (as in a few seconds). IMO, I kill most players with about 5 stacks of confusion and a half dozen total stacks to cover it. This is why Epi is so strong right now. People rightfully complain about the giant bomb but often miss the one that dropped 25 total stacks since Epi doesn’t appear in the combat log.

I think a stack limit is a good thing but it probably won’t solve anything outside of the spectacular Epi bombs.

Guardian is the only class necessary for a guild group to be near unkillable. The defensive and offensive overlap is substantial. Without them, a guild group will fold. With only them, it can take a ridiculous amount of time to grind them down.

Second to that these days is Rev then Necro. IMO anything outside of those three classes is a bit of waste these days in large scale play and skirmish.

As for skill ceiling, Rev. Guardian rotations are pretty simple. Rev rotations particularly in skirmish can be very complex and the difference between an average Rev player and a great one is spectacular. Great skill can really make Rev sing.

Dawdler.8521:

Amd incidentally also be the least respected class.

Blowup Burn DH, Condi Chrono, Stun Lock Warrior, Epi Necro, blah, blah, blah… plenty of classes are problematic. QQing on the one class that isn’t good at zerging, skrimish or dueling is backwards thinking. Feel free to burn on Ghost Thief but most weapon sets on the Thief are atrocities after years of nerfs.

DH is sitting there with the lowest skill floor in the game and good/great at pretty much every aspect of WvW. For that matter Guardian hasn’t seen a significant nerf since launch despite being a dominant force in the meta since go. What is up with that?

Besides if respect is playing a sub-optimal class for scouting, load up a power Necro and get all that respect.

Turk.5460:

All these people whining and crying about low-risk on thief have obviously never played one.

If a thief resets a fight, you are also reset, they did not win, you did not lose. This argument is null.

I have 5k hours in WvW with most of that on a thief in pretty much every decent build (and some not so decent ones). I can say without a doubt D/P as a roaming weapon set is outright OP and has been since launch. Perma-stealth, can vanish without needing a target 3s after a big opening shot, Shadow Shots crazy goodness, one of the best AA DPS rotations (why Anet?) and Head Shot/Heartseeker all being strong attacks the weapon set is ridiculously powerful in solo roaming with nothing wasted or weak. A thief only loses on that weapon set if they overplay their hand. Couple it with staff/bound and its OP-ness is obvious to everyone particularly those that run it.

The only offsetting factor IMO is that the thief pretty much sucks at everything else.

Oh and if anyone is wondering what the build is…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsaWl0MhSnY5TwwJw/ELIFFXDEALQXVlBfwc7P/7PA-T1CBQBaUpyIVWFw9H0n+gAcEA2wJEgBPIgUoh4Tq/AgDBQjUCGAAB4mtZAcezbezbezz1t5Nv5NvZpAEYnF-w

Only decent place to play RvR. As soon as a better one comes along, I am gone. Too bad CU is horrid at least for action MMOs. Crowfall is my next hope.

Worst MMO PvE of any AAA I have played. Loot engine is the worst I have ever seen (and I have played some BAD MMOs). The agrro system is non-existant which makes any sort of challenging group play pointless. Lastly, the PvE is simply too easy.

Raids, that was last decade.

PvP, I dabble but I like sandbox-esk play.

T4 last week was a lot of fun even with the lopsided time zones. Each side had a single map blob which made attack/defense entertaining with all the shuffling between maps. Roaming was pretty fantastic even if I was being a pain to NSP (they know). Even the PPT which few care about came down to the last few hours.

T4 this week is watching SBI with multiple map blobs roll over pretty much everything. Servers are still trying but towards the end of NA Prime you could tell map chat was a somber relatively joyless conversation unlike last week.

Roll a thief and flip/scout and contest. It is what I do between player fights. Thieves give you the freedom of exiting a fight if it turns. With some practice you will be picking off players at a respectable clip.