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D/D Ele mechanic rework will change the meta.

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

herald druid and reaper

that’s what it’s gonna be. now with druid it kinda depends on how it will work.. but apparently druids will have aspects instead of pets which makes the whole thing a bit more reliable. staff looks like a lot of cc for peel and most likely also a bit of heal. the only question is how it will turn out. oh and let’s not forget the scrapper, the so called close combat brawler.

tbh after more than 1 year and close to 3000 games on d/d ele i’m getting sick of it. people are frustrated to play against d/d eles and i’m sick of seeing so many d/d eles that can do well without having to master the class 100% just because they get carried by passives, bugs and burns.

for me they could delete d/d ele from the game if they finally make other builds viable. neither burst nor condi builds have ever been viable in the history of gw2, it has always been that tanky thing. in a perfect world ele would be hard to play and rewarding if you’re able to do it. in reality you can do whatever you want and still achieve above average results. but hey, #believeinkarl because tempest is gonna open up new playstyles, right?

You talk like other professions are not carried by passive/bugs etc etc . Nobody would play a profession that requires 100x more effort to compete with the rest of the passive OP crap on other profession. If you want to be the special black snowflake that badly…go and play trap ranger in tournaments, if you really want to be that l33t..go on and play it…nobody will stop you..well maybe you won’t find a team willingly to get you on board but who care..you’re l33t.

You want a viable burst spec on the class with the lowest HP, no stealth, no evade spam, no stances or meditations type of skills…kk what do you suggest?

Really want to know what so “skilled” about stealth burst, double endure pain rampagers, double elixir S/gear shield soldier pro, DS soldiers and so on

Really pls tell me about the years of training required to play any of the specs mentioned above

so how do you kill ele ?

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Awww you underpowerd d/d cele ele poor thing you ;( I wish I can buff you but I can’t.

He’s not asking for d/d cele ele buffs, he’s asking for more ele build diversity—ele’s are funneled into the d/d spec because everything else is much worse.

More build diversity=ele’s are happy.
Fewer d/d eles=community is happy.
Everyone wins.

I will say that I’ve been seeing some rather good staff and s/f ele’s popping up recently, but from what I understand the traits (2/3 traitlines) and utilities are largely the same from the meta cele build, which does underscore the OP’s point.

It would be nice…but remember, there are other professions in the same boat. Thieves have even less build diversity than eles, for example. They need to increase build diversity for many professions, not just ele.

The real problem is that on ele is “go tank or go bust”, this is a huge problem, a great design flaw as there close to no flexibility in the way you can play ele. The situation is even more pronounced in the ele case respect to other professions

so how do you kill ele ?

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

This is more of a reminder for the devs and partly for the community at least for those with some consideration, to both parties I’ll link this old video for you to watch. What you will see has not changed much

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ&index=12&list=PLBF2912D72F052EC7

Now you can take the best ele player in this game, the top ones: :@Phantaram, @Honey..whoever, then give them the same spec as seen in the video….I guarantee you that the end result would be the same.

Outside the well known water/arcana/cantrip combo, the ele has absolutely no sustain, no low CD blocks, no low CD chainable CC, no stealth, no low CD teleports, no huge HP bar, no secondary HP bar…basically nothing.

Outsustaining the enemy through attrition; since launch there has been no other way for ele to win. For a brief time it was possible to play a burst role, the damage was worth the risk and the enemy didn’t have the same sustain respect to the current iteration. That didn’t last long….

The devs nerfed:
-arcane skills, more than doubled their CD, damage reduced by over 70%
-air auto-attack dmg butchered,hurl dmg equally butchered
-most air trait line nerfed
-nerfed RTL and buffed x3 the mobility of other classes
-nerfed mistform

The devs basically nerfed anything that could make burst ele a competitive spec, ele scepter is exactly as it was 3 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beHJkv5gaIU&index=13&list=PLBF2912D72F052EC7

This was the reality of eles before water/arcana bunker was discovered, this would be exactly how ele would feel without the water/arcana bunker with D/D.

In the end, the d/d set is all eles have got as competitive spec and it comes as no surprise that it’s so hated, it’s the only ele spec people can’t trample on in their sleep.

Furthermore respect to the rest, the ele can’t even choose what utilities or traits to use…it’s water/arcana+cantrips or go home.

Will this reality ever change?….I wonder

so how do you kill ele ?

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

so how do you kill ele ?

they kill you 1v1
they chase you down and kill you
they survive 2v1

at least pre nerfed warriors can still be easily put down.

For myself, I’ve found that a couple of strategies have worked out.
1) Wait for them to mess up (wrong element) and DPS hard/ Condi Hard
2) Pour on the CC

Certain variations of Eles do take a while to kill, but that’s where you have to decide to continue to pursue or focus on point A,B, and C instead.

good eles don’t mess up lol

it’s like saying “Just wait for them being totally bad then kill them”

Good anything doesn’t mess up
The op was asking for help about a class not help against a good player.

Thats like saying “just skip what the op said because good players won’t die”

Now that we have gone full circle…. back on topic

lol you can kill scrub players with any spec vs any spec…asking for tips to fight nabs doesn’t make sense, unless you’re worse then them ofc

if you go for a class vs class (Or spec vs spec) topic you must consider all specs being played at their best ofc…i can kill scrub eles on gs/hammer war but that won’t happen vs any decent ele ofc so waiting for them to mess up is not a valid way to fight someone cause you can’t plan to only fight ppl who can’t play

Wait for them to stand still doing nothing then hb them to death lmao

So you ask for nerfs expecting to beat decent eles as easily as scrub eles?
I seriously doubt that anet will ever grant your wish, you will spend a looooong time here on the forum begging for nerfs…

There’s a tiny difference between being able to fight them and having totally no chances vs any average (Not good…just average) d/d ele player, atm there’s basically nothing that can kill an average dd ele while contesting point in a decent amount of time even on celestial nec that is supposed to counter it (And it doesn’t anyway, if he really sux he would just disengage and be fine anyway) still takes so much that going 1v1 is basically not worth the time spent…it’s like 1v1ing a bunker guard on his point with the difference that bunker guard will never be able to kill anything (And gonna be decapped by an engi for example)* while ele can basically kill anyone 1v1 if he tries to stand on point and contest it*

Ele can’t kill anything or outlive anyone else ( average..not good), unless the ele uses D/D. Changes may come but don’t expect anything drastic.

Best GW2 forum quote 2015

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

@OP
Not entirely true. For starters, Anet are one of the more objective developers ever. It took this long to realize D/D Cele Ele needed a rework…

There’s nothing wrong with changing an aspect that everyone scorns. Another example is Turret Engi. It wasn’t OP as certain classes could beat it, everyone just hated the brain dead spec so Anet gave it a nerf bat.

If you got a big enough crowd wanting a change, Anet will likely change it to please that crowd and there’s nothing wrong with it. Like you said, they’re goal is to make the game more fun and please people.

I can’t agree with you, as I have said anet has always tried to please the majority rather than follow a logical process , who can say that the crowd always right?

Check this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Please-don-t-change-Heat-Sync/first#post5492835

Despite the good changes to Tempest, there are still people who ask for more, people who are blind to the status quo where teams run up to 2 eles at time, this because anet didn’t listen to the minority who were fine with having EA as GM, while asking for something else as mechanic defining, something not as strong.

If now anet listen to the majority they will revert the nerfs on heat sync and teams will start running 2-3 tempest and then we go again with another bunch of nerfs for the whole profession in all gamemodes.

Anet must be able to read the forum and extrapolate valuable feedback only, leaving out selfish balance requests

Please don't change Heat Sync

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

No!
Tempest should offer a different playstyle respect to the rest, no dev ever said that you must like this playstyle and that it must be superior to the rest.

We already have a reality where teams run 2-3 eles and completely ignore what other classes got to offer

Now that ele get nerfed, we really don’t need something to take its place as support king which would bring even more nerfs

Best GW2 forum quote 2015

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Vague Memory.2817

Anet trys to balance using self-interested views from the forum rather than being more objective, that is why after a balance patch things just get worse. There are blatant changes that need to be made that focuses PvP on player skill rather than passive or op effects, but they don’t have the courage to make these changes because of the outrage from people who will lose their advantage over others. Anet’s response is to even things out by giving everyone OPness which unbalances things even more.

By far this is the best quote that I ever seen on these forum or any other MMO forum in that regard, a straight to the point explanation of what is wrong with MMO development these days:

1) MMO games these days are made with the purpose of attracting as many players as possible, as such the level of difficulty is greatly reduced to allow the largest number of people to succeed in the game. The Pro and Cons are well known to the majority and to discuss about them would go against forum policies for obvious reasons.

2) Changes are always made to please again the largest number of players, changes are never based on precise logical patterns.

Do all d/d eles use Vampire runes?

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Supreme.3164

I careless about d/d eles and will have no empathy if they were to become useless. They’ve been overly powerful for too long. As long as fresh air stays the same or perhaps get a buff, I careless if the d/d build were gutted

Smart players will always be overly powerful no matter the level of nerfs you hope for…you’ll see for yourself soon enough, have faith.

What to do against burst thiefs

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Thief is not your main problem in wvw, there are: mesmer who burst 2-3x harder and have more access to stealth, more sustain than thieves ; warrior axe/shield/gs with double endure pain, block, huge heal for second with food buffs, signet/power necro.

As I have said at equal skill level as burst ele in wvw..you don’t stand a chance…oh and I forget very rare remorseless cavalier rangers GS mele tanks burst = 2600 toughness and 2 hit KO burst chain with pets and stuns.

Scepter has extremely low sustain damage and as burst class you need sustain damage to keep up pressure between spikes downtimes , without it…your enemy will outsustain you np

You will never have an answer to every class, wvw has 3x the amount of builds respect to pvp +foods and buffs. For mobility you’re on the right track but if you want to kill people fast….ele not the answer

What to do against burst thiefs

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

okay to sum this up

if i level my ele to 80 and have full exotics burst build , will i have a chance against
a thief lvl 80 full exotics ? or am I like instantly death ?

thanks

At equal skill level?….you’re insta dead as burst ele vs burst thief in WvW

The Synopsis of Burning

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Actually, Burn Guardiams turned from passive play to active play. The playstyles between prepatch and current are like night an day, it’s really unreal.

Burns on Ele have been the center point of “Burns are OP” rants. For every one burn guard complaint, there are 3 Ele Burn complaints.

To reiterate, Burn Guardians is a very active playstyle, on par with Power Guardian builds with the exception that Burn Guardians having more combos to follow up on.

  • Whirling Wrath in Purging Flames
  • Leap in Purging Flames
  • Not engaging immediately for fear of condi cleanses
  • Should I save PF for team or self condi cleanses?
  • Choosing proper targets to burst, such as Engi, Thief, Mesmer, and hoping a Ranger’s pet is near them /evilaugh
  • Shout cleansing Guardian, hope he kneels down that downed ally so I can cleave them both. I’ll save my GS#2.
  • kitten a signet necro!?

Tell me, exactly where is the smart Ele play rotations?

  • Pulling off burning speed and spaming RoF
  • Landing blast finishers in fire fields
  • Don’t attune back in Water unless you need heals, or condi clease
  • Spam dodge rolls but preferably in fire for burms
  • Blink!
  • Fiery Greatsword!
  • I’ll be back in a minute when my health regens. Oh wait, i’m on the otherside of map i’ll decap this node.

I’m not saying the class is easy, it’s just clock work with little to no counterplay when fighting the Ele. The definition of low risk high reward.

And where is the guardian “smart play” when facing anything on ele that’s not d/d?
To faceroll all other ele builds on your burn guardian is fine, it’s balanced isn’kitten

There are not a plethora of playstyles out there you either have stealth and can burst…or you have sustain and win through attrition, GW2 is a casual game, very easy to play and execute so stop talking about skill…it’s pointless

Your guardian is very easy to use so stop the fairytale : meditation, blocks, healing, boon upkeep…90% of it is instant cast, drop your skill talk already

It doesn’t take a degree to use any class in this game, anybody can make a burn guardian and do good after 1 hour, anybody can run a double elixir S engi + gearshield, anybody can run a PU shatter mesmer, anybody can run a d/p thief etc etc.

Stop already with all the ridiculous talk about “timing”, everybody and his dog needs to TIME their skills to get the desired effect, do you really believe that anybody with a couple of brain cells thinks that an ele press button randomly, without even looking at the screen and win?

Timing…pfff…you can macro 90% of current meta PvP builds in this game, a game made for 12+ kids…people spit vitriol about skill…so ridiculous

so how do you kill ele ?

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Every time anyone calls for a nerf on DD eles, an ele reponds that its only natural that you die to them because they are 1000000 times better players then you. So sick of it TBH. The class is over represented in all 3 game modes.

And how many fresh air ele die to your epic double elixir S +gear shield +soldier gear build? how many staff eles?…but that’s fine isn’kitten anything that die to you is always balanced and the player behind it obviously a scrub.

Wanna talk about other game modes? What about WvW with “immortal” soldier gear engies rifle burst, -40% condi duration + blah blah.

But wait…from the moment that you so expert on balance why don’t you, or maybe somebody else from this legion of clueless forum warriors, tell me exactly how an ele should win against other profession, what should be ele “ace in the sleeve” against all other profession?

Going CC? Compared to an egi?warrior?…where is it?

Going burst? Against stealth classes and no blocks/stealth/reveal skill/reset?…not happening

How an ele can hope to beat anything if not by out-sustaining it?

If not by sustain how an ele should beat ..dunno a stealth burst abuser, a condi spammer, a CC range user, maybe you see something I don’t..or maybe you’re just another forum warrior, what will it be?

P.S This is somebody who know something about balance

Salamander.2504

Before someone pipes up that “PvP isn’t balanced around 1v1”, I hope we can all agree that 1v1’s happen all the time. Condi engi wants to take home at the start of a match? Too bad, a diamond skin ele decided to push far. At best, its a tactical blunder for a voice-comms team; at worst, it ends in obliteration for a PUG.
The Diamond Skin trait is extremely passive, it isn’t build defining in the least, and it has no counterplay from pure condi builds. Should we really be encouraging people who want to run carrion or rabid to run more cele just so they can get an ele to 90%?
On the other side of the token, the trait does absolutely nothing for the ele for the duration of a team fight and/or when your health isn’t sky-high, which makes a GM trait useless for a huge portion of the fight. That doesn’t sound right at all. Some rework should be implemented in order to:
1) Prevent a single trait from hard-countering an entire build “genre” (condi)
2) Make the trait slightly more “build-defining,” requiring active and/or synergistic play to prevent/remove condi’s, rather than passive play.
3) Make the trait functional at all times. Currently, Diamond Skin acts as an invincibility shield when fighting condi builds or any soft-cc openers, but does absolutely nothing otherwise.
For example, all of the above points could be easily addressed by changing Diamond Skin to: “Gain 3 seconds of Resistance when attuning to Earth”
for example, or something much more clever, but basically anything along those lines

He sees the problem and offer a solution, a suggestion that would work for both sides while keeping intact the level of competition, now there are guys like this @Salamander…and guys who don’t want any sort of competition, they simply want to steamroll on every ele they see, to which one of the two groups do you belong?

(edited by Supreme.3164)

Why is the balance team so slow?

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

‘I can’t manage condis at all so everyone must be a scrub like me crying into their cereal everything they see a burn guard’

but for real, anet just doesn’t care about pvp’s health. d/d ele which has been a huge problem in pvp for a long time is just being left to rule pvp. supposedly it will get nerfed, but the lack of a when and how leave me with little confidence.

You were one of those defending turret engi, by all considered bad for the ‘health of pvp’, the same one who was defending cele engi previous incarnation, calling stupid any who would not run similar “meta” build….now that engi is not on the spotlight..you worry about ‘pvp health’?

Might have defended cele Engi, definitely called people scrubs for losing vs turret Engi. turret Engi was stupidly simple to fight. I could always roll it half afk on celestial bombs engineer (not the old meta I might add, so I doubt I would have been pro cele nades at that point). sure, I’m a bit salty that anet ruined so much of our synergy in our traits and introduced more bugs but Engi is OK right now, not great but very playable.

regardless I think there is a big difference between cele d/d and turret Engi. one is viable in high level play, and multiple of them are being run on nearly every top team, and the other stomps noobs. if turret Engi was never nerfed the changes to condis would have been awful for them. burn guards would just dominate them, they would be no issue. d/d ele on the other hand does not suffer from bad condi cleanse, no stun breaks, bad mobility, etc. d/d else’s clear advantages over nearly all other specs and it’s mandated status in the professional scene obviously show that it is a problem.

Despite the changes, we can easily say that engi still viable and fun to use, about ele I don’t think people are debating against any changes…rather people are debating about the expected level of these changes.
I’m inclined to believe that people are expecting level of nerfs that would make ele completely unplayable but I’m confident that anet won’t go that route.

By unplayable for me means that you’d lose on ele against anything regardless of your efforts and expertise

Why is the balance team so slow?

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

‘I can’t manage condis at all so everyone must be a scrub like me crying into their cereal everything they see a burn guard’

but for real, anet just doesn’t care about pvp’s health. d/d ele which has been a huge problem in pvp for a long time is just being left to rule pvp. supposedly it will get nerfed, but the lack of a when and how leave me with little confidence.

You were one of those defending turret engi, by all considered bad for the ‘health of pvp’, the same one who was defending cele engi previous incarnation, calling stupid any who would not run similar “meta” build….now that engi is not on the spotlight..you worry about ‘pvp health’?

so how do you kill ele ?

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

so how do you kill ele ?

they kill you 1v1
they chase you down and kill you
they survive 2v1

at least pre nerfed warriors can still be easily put down.

For myself, I’ve found that a couple of strategies have worked out.
1) Wait for them to mess up (wrong element) and DPS hard/ Condi Hard
2) Pour on the CC

Certain variations of Eles do take a while to kill, but that’s where you have to decide to continue to pursue or focus on point A,B, and C instead.

good eles don’t mess up lol

it’s like saying “Just wait for them being totally bad then kill them”

Good anything doesn’t mess up
The op was asking for help about a class not help against a good player.

Thats like saying “just skip what the op said because good players won’t die”

Now that we have gone full circle…. back on topic

lol you can kill scrub players with any spec vs any spec…asking for tips to fight nabs doesn’t make sense, unless you’re worse then them ofc

if you go for a class vs class (Or spec vs spec) topic you must consider all specs being played at their best ofc…i can kill scrub eles on gs/hammer war but that won’t happen vs any decent ele ofc so waiting for them to mess up is not a valid way to fight someone cause you can’t plan to only fight ppl who can’t play

Wait for them to stand still doing nothing then hb them to death lmao

So you ask for nerfs expecting to beat decent eles as easily as scrub eles?
I seriously doubt that anet will ever grant your wish, you will spend a looooong time here on the forum begging for nerfs…

Diamond Skin could use a rework

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Diamond skin now gives 2 seconds of resistance upon switching elements.

Tada, problem solved while giving eles some much-needed new technology.

Don’t give eles more boons…seriously being a boon centric profession is more of a curse than a blessing, I’d rather have a flat condi reduction by percentage as long as the ele sits in earth

Diamond Skin could use a rework

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Don’t play 100% condition builds.

I play condition builds when I want an easy win, when a diamond skin ele pops up it will eat me inside out that he denied me my easy win but I won’t go calling for a nerf on it.

While this is technically a solution to the problem, it really misses the point: people want to play how they want to play. Just because people can go power to avoid getting shafted by diamond skin doesn’t justify a single trait making an entire class of builds obsolete.

What about condi transfer necros? Is it ok for them to hard counter every other condi build out there?

It’s the same concept really, so a condi build will lose to signet necro as much as to DS eles, your chance of victory against both is rather similar

What about condi transfer necros? Condi transfer necro’s have plenty of counterplay: you can block, dodge, LOS the transfers, or bait the tranfers with wimpy conditions before you send in the condi bomb. If a condi build outplays the necro, they can win. This isn’t even hypothetical in the least, people do it every day.

Diamond Skin ele, on the other hand has no counterplay—the condi user can outplay the ele all they want. The fact remains that most rabid builds won’t be able to shave off 10% health.

The chance of winning against a Diamond Skin ele is 0%. A condi build has a much higher chance of victory against a transfer necro.

“Hard” counters are fine. Lack of counterplay to them is not.

You don’t outplay the ele at all if you can’t shave 10% off his HP but…nvm this, rather I’d like to focus on another aspect : complete lack of condi build hard counter; as you say it’s fine to have hard counter as long as they have counterplay.

Therefore I suggest to keep the hard counter aspect of Diamond skin with the following change :reduce condition duration by 66% while in earth no reqs for the trait to work, just like stone heart.

Your counterplay in this case? Force the ele out of earth, he can’t heal, do dmg or anything else while in earth anyway.

Diamond Skin could use a rework

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Don’t play 100% condition builds.

I play condition builds when I want an easy win, when a diamond skin ele pops up it will eat me inside out that he denied me my easy win but I won’t go calling for a nerf on it.

While this is technically a solution to the problem, it really misses the point: people want to play how they want to play. Just because people can go power to avoid getting shafted by diamond skin doesn’t justify a single trait making an entire class of builds obsolete.

What about condi transfer necros? Is it ok for them to hard counter every other condi build out there?

It’s the same concept really, so a condi build will lose to signet necro as much as to DS eles, your chance of victory against both is rather similar

What is the state of Thief class in PVP?

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

I don’t know why thieves are surprised to receive such firm opposition to their demands for more sustain; they possess already the most annoying, frustrating mechanic ever designed in a MMO : stealth. Their demands become even more ridiculous as they refuse for great part to give up on their access to stealth.

If I’d be you I’d wait to ask anything, it’s crazy to think that mesmers will be left the way they’re now and you don’t want to be there with them when kitten train will hit with its full force

Reapers are WAY to tanky

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Necros and mesmers won’t be able to hide beyond the common " ele OP OP" parade for much longer, their elite spec is already garbage level and the only thing that makes them viable in PvP..will soon be nerfed into the ground for another year or so. Soon the forum will be littered with OP necro/mesmer threads.

Balance Cele DD Ele Please

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

I agree its not the amulet, thy could tone down fire and it will be balanced every body crying for nerfs is just crazy if thy nerf ele into the ground and the class falls off the rader there will be another class that will just take the top spot (revenant) and then ppl will just start crying for nerfs all over.

With ele out of the equation , the crowd would turn their attention back to mesmers and necros, a scenario I can’t wait to see…so I’m all for ground breaking nerfs on ele ( as they wouldn’t affect me the least ofc xd)

[Pet Request]

in Ranger

Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

I don’t think that anybody would complain if rangers gain access to torment by using a pet, was thinking a new bird or devourer would be ideal, actually given the total count number I’d say a ranged devoured applying 3 stacks on torment per hit with a 5x projectile attack on 30s base CD

Thoughts?

[P.S I’d love a 6th bird that applies 3 stacks of torment on a 20s base CD]

Do something with this insane burning!!!

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Burn Guards are nothing next too other professions. Come to WvW and get 18 stacks of confusion on you in under 2 seconds from a Mesmer who was in stealth.

+100000…<infinity>
If you know how to play, you can kill burn guard on anything( I main ranger, warrior ,necro and ele)…now come WvW and go deal with PU mesmer, P/D condi thieves ( now +daredevil = more cancerous spec )

I’m not guardian but seriously if you’re having huge issues against burn guard, chances are….your build needs some fine tuning asap

Calm down your taytays.

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Leave it…
Some people watch the comedy channel …I read the gw2 pvp forum, it has the same effects and it’s free!

Reapers are WAY to tanky

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Their Elite should have been called MageTank. Ridiculous how tanky and how much damage they are doing. It’s like the next Cele Ele

You have got to be kidding me… O.o

Funny to see you defending something….is it got to do with the fact that you play a necro?

If that is the case then surely you defend d/d ele because you play ele.

its whatever, they can believe what they want. Little do they know I’m also a big advocate of nerfing Spite and reconfiguring Soul Reaping to make the rest of the class better/more well rounded (though the line is a kittene to draw. Unlike Ele who ware the top in PvE AND PvP, Necromancer can’t sustain many needs to damage since they are already basically obsolete.) I defend Necro because it deserves it… Similar reasons why I defend non-cantrip eles, non-Beast Master Rangers, Warrior Diversity, Non-dp thief viability, etc.

It has little to do with what “class” I support. Every class has stuff that’s too strong and stuff that really needs help. People are too tunnel visioned over the “meta” to realize that, though.

I actually agree with you…not every build of reaper is over the top but I have ran into a few today that are quite tanky and do a significant amount of damage for that tankyness. I while I too do not like the whole META…is unfortunately here to stay.

And that certainly is that case, you can make hybrids that are fairly tough atm, namely SRS Reaper, but I wouldn’t say it’s OP, and by far not “D/D Ele” level, that’s just silly… Unfortunately, SRS reaper is about the only thing that even works right now though, but that’s mostly because lack of synergy with the rest of the class and total reliance on Spite (for boon spamming, something I’ve already spoken out against), and Baskcally being forced into Soul Reaping, which, and I think this gets forgotten about, has a passive minor trust that triggers Spectral Armor, which can extend your stay in Shroud for a good amount of time.

A lot of these issues people are seeing could easily change if they gave the core class the attention it needs. But still, on par with D/D Ele in terms of usefulness…? That’s why I said “Are you serious…?” Not even remotely close to Ele.

Ele this…Ele that…" we’re not like ele…so it’s fine"

Did you really think that the QQ crowd would stop at ele, once nerfed to the ground?
Ofc not…the same “brothers in arms” you had so far during this massive ele hate crusade, will one day, soon, turn their gaze toward another profession…and most likely it will be necro or mesmer

It goes without saying, the QQ parade never stop..it simply rotates targets, so today ele hate…tomorrow it will be your beloved profession

What goes around..comes around

Reapers are WAY to tanky

in PvP

Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Their Elite should have been called MageTank. Ridiculous how tanky and how much damage they are doing. It’s like the next Cele Ele

You have got to be kidding me… O.o

Funny to see you defending something….is it got to do with the fact that you play a necro?

so how do you kill ele ?

in PvP

Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

I find it quite funny that A-net will announce the changes when they are finalized because, as we have all learned by now, they are usually far removed from those that actually need to happen.

@Grouch:

-please consider that Ele is not only OP in PvP but that it is also over represented in PvE as well. Every dungeon run usually has 2 Eles.

GW2 devs balance things, it was never their intention to delete ele from the game.
That much has always been obvious still…some people go on with their pointless hate crusade.

Guess it can be helped, whichever class you play , there will be always those who will hate you for killing them repetitively.

Ele stacking officially seen as an exploit ?

in PvP

Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

just replace ring of fire with another skill. it will gut d/d’s damage while leaving the sustain.

This is what I call “removal of the problem out of existence” , your suggestion got nothing to do with balance, it’s just a selfish request that no sane dev would ever take in consideration.

The d/d set is a mele set and by general game design, the mele sets do the most damage, you as opponent must still learn how to bloody dodge and counter, what must be done is to make the damage more easy to counter, not remove it!

A competitive gaming environment is where you as player start thinking about your next tactic whenever the enemy is approaching on whichever class, so we don’t remove damage from ele so that you start laughing whenever an ele try to engage you!

Ring of Fire has a direct damage and condi component, you want to make the condi component more easy to avoid/negate; you can increase CD of ring of fire, you can reduce the number of burn stacks or change them to burning pulse; or whatever sensible suggestion come to your mind.

Behind every profession, there is a person and that person spent as much time as you in game on average, everyone should have an equal shot at victory regardless of what they play

Balance = equal playing ground it’s not a matter of opinion whether you like it or not! It should not be that profession A beats always profession B, because there is just this much you can do on profession B thx to nerfs.

If you want this kind of game, do not play a MMO, go play a RPG where you can use -Godmode-

The ele must be balanced yes..but not for your sake but rather for the sake of those players using the class

Except guess what? Warrior melee is WAY better in design just because it has clear counterplay and it has real casting times. Hell even Thief melee is better designed too because they can get bursted just as hard. Ele melee takes no skill because tankiness escapes and blind spam, therefore it is unhealthy for the game at it’s current state. If Ele didn’t do 6k firegrabs on d/d cele, then EVERYTHING would be fine.

You put ring of fire and they stand in the circle? If they don’t dodge then they take a drake’s breath. They dodge drake’s breath? They eat burning speed. Those skills are WAY TOO EASY to land for the amount of base damage and burning that they do. Oh and while this is happening? I’m tanking two people while I do so because blinding ashes and evade on burning speed.

Now name me a “melee bruiser” that can do the same amount of damage while being able to deal with a 1v2 with ease.

The last thing I’d expect to read on a MMO forum is a player considering “skilled” something that killed them, one of the fundamental laws of MMO, existed since the dawn of MMOrpg:

What kills me takes no skill and I lose only because the enemy using a broken spec as I’m the best player in the universe

Do you want me to believe that your typical forum warrior would stop whining on the forums once the object of his whining get deleted?

Logic dictate that the typical forum warrior would switch to the next thing that kills them which in this case would be condi mesmers, after that maybe engi….after that taunt rangers? lol….it never stops because….what kills me is OP and must be nerfed

The laws of MMO never fail

(edited by Supreme.3164)

I always have a question

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

For ele, is Lighting Fresh a stun break skill? – NO.

Then why ele can still use it while under the effect of CCs? Is it because it’s an instant cast skill? I think it should have the cast time and animation.

If you look at all other blink skills (thief’s shadow step, mesmer’s blink, nerco’s fresh wurm, they are all stun break skill.

I still remember long time ago, Anet nerf lighting fresh o it’s not a stun break anymore, maybe they forgot to make it unusable while getting CCed? And this has been bugged for like 2 years and no one was questioning?

What about thief steal? ranger’s pet action? flesh golem? Shouts in general? Are all these stun breaker also?

Have all these been BUGGED for 2 years also?

This forum is really insane…

Ele stacking officially seen as an exploit ?

in PvP

Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

just replace ring of fire with another skill. it will gut d/d’s damage while leaving the sustain.

This is what I call “removal of the problem out of existence” , your suggestion got nothing to do with balance, it’s just a selfish request that no sane dev would ever take in consideration.

The d/d set is a mele set and by general game design, the mele sets do the most damage, you as opponent must still learn how to bloody dodge and counter, what must be done is to make the damage more easy to counter, not remove it!

A competitive gaming environment is where you as player start thinking about your next tactic whenever the enemy is approaching on whichever class, so we don’t remove damage from ele so that you start laughing whenever an ele try to engage you!

Ring of Fire has a direct damage and condi component, you want to make the condi component more easy to avoid/negate; you can increase CD of ring of fire, you can reduce the number of burn stacks or change them to burning pulse; or whatever sensible suggestion come to your mind.

Behind every profession, there is a person and that person spent as much time as you in game on average, everyone should have an equal shot at victory regardless of what they play

Balance = equal playing ground it’s not a matter of opinion whether you like it or not! It should not be that profession A beats always profession B, because there is just this much you can do on profession B thx to nerfs.

If you want this kind of game, do not play a MMO, go play a RPG where you can use -Godmode-

The ele must be balanced yes..but not for your sake but rather for the sake of those players using the class

Ele stacking officially seen as an exploit ?

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Same discussion all the time…one side ask for harsh nerfs and the other side stand against the idea; the discussion starts because the side asking for nerfs always invoke the word balance when in truth all they want is to see removed the source of their anguish and that means a ground zero nerfing of whatever they lose to.

Why can I safely say this?

Because those asking for nerfs normally never propose what should be changed, they simply want the problem entirely removed from existence, where balance means addressing specific issues.

And if somebody propose a solution on how to address specific problems…well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxwVcGXhi0o

Remove team support from traits

in Elementalist

Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

The stacking of eles

The stacking itself is not the real problem, there is no way to say that stacking can cause problems in game, the real issues are what caused the stacking of a specific profession and what are the benefits.

As long as the benefits only cover a specific aspect..all is fine, for example if the stacking happens to dramatically increase offense at the expense of defense , then there is no problem.

The ele stacking is a problem because it can cover both defense and offense at the same time and I believe that this is because the benefits are drawn from the base of the ele aka : the traits.

My solution to ele stacking is to remove the team support element from the traits, if an ele want to support his team then he should switch to the opportune weapon set at the expense of his offensive potential, that’s to say a d/d ele should not be able to support his/her team at all respect to a staff ele.

The traits should be there only for self-sustain, do this and suddenly having 4 d/d eles will become counter-productive during team fights, as your teammates get focused, you won’t be able to do much on a d/d set

Discuss

ESL Go4 Cup 44 Rule Update (READ)

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

A shame…
I hope that HoT will bring what you’re looking for, so that you can come back to shoutcast :-); elite specs and new game mode should bring the diversity you’re looking for I believe but only time will tell

ESL Go4 Cup 44 Rule Update (READ)

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

OMG! Blue are you back my man? We miss your shoutcasting! are you gonna stream next ESL?

D/D Ele - A more focused fix?

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Forum warriors are an important aspect of every MMO, they’re necessary to maintain the level of entertainment on the forum and in game, don’t you enjoy the multiple usage of the forum warrior elite : nerf pl0x OP hurdurr shout?

Daredevil counterplay?

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

I don’t want easy counterplay to daredevil….this is my last chance to keep my friend in game ^^, he has always been a s/d enthusiast and now he has a reason to log in more than once every 3-4 days!

Windborne Notes fix ETA?

in Ranger

Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Is there an eta for the fix on this trait : windborne notes?
It supposed to give 12s regen but it only gives 6s

The future of eles....

in Elementalist

Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

What will happen is that the profession will be nerfed to the ground once again and for another year or so. The profession needs a rework, rather than be thrown in periodical nerf/buff cycle.

For a time it was possible to read the forum, without the need to sift through dozen of ele nerf/troll threads and now we’re back to Jan 2013 period…

It’s pointless to either incite civil discussions or have suggestions on how to fix ele, both are openly ignored by the devs in the name of their master design plan..so what’s left to do?

Well in my opinion you either:

A) Delete the game
B) Change main and start anew

About option B , let’s be honest..they will never rework/fix ele, they will merely nerf/unnerf the same couple of sustain traits and healing skill over and over again; they will never give a proper elite spec because of obvious core problems and for fear of creating something even more problematic so…why keep playing ele?

(edited by Supreme.3164)

Still Nothing

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Hmmm maybe whining and thread spamming isn’t the way to get what you want. Who could’ve guessed?

+1

Furthermore almost all the upcoming elite specializations are an upgraded version of the core profession( berseker, dare devil, herald, chrono, reaper and I believe druid, forge too) and they will have all the tools to easily destroy d/d eles who didn’t receive a competitive elite spec as the core already perceived as strong

D/D ele: which nerfs?

in Elementalist

Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Oppressive strength?

As it has been showed today again during Go4, a quick access to condi clear is all that is needed to basically rend the build whose main source of damage is burning , the direct damage of celestial d/d is laughable in most cases.

Funny…how desperate are people to nerf the only thing that makes players shake in their boots when they see an ele, which would be otherwise a free kill slot machine if left only with staff and scepter..and soon the warhorn.

But before keep going with the discussion do please clarify something: what level of nerfs are you asking for?

A) A level where afterward a d/d ele would not pose any kind of danger to you or anybody else?

B) A level where you would still think twice before engaging an ele using D/D?

The majority of forum warriors (which are mistakenly passed as the majority of GW2 playerbase in all gamemodes) are looking to achieve option A ofc, they want D/D set to be reduced to scepter/staff level where they basically pose no threat to any decent player( able to at least run a meta build ).

The build itself already has counters : cele necro, staff PU mesmer [even if conveniently left out of discussion every time ] and some others not normally met on your meta bible site.

The number of D/D counter will triple when HoT release and war/necro/mesmer gain access to elite specializations ( berseker will feast on D/D like nothing = ability to trigger CI every 8-9s with basically all weapon sets, CC/condi immunity, zerk damage and more, much much more) – cele necro +reaper will make d/d ele basically useless in 1vs1 scenario – shatter condi chronomancer will obliterate eles in few secs.

Then there will be revenant ( who some already tested during last BWE) able to perma torment/confuse/poison ele while sending back all burning stacks and boon ripping

I bet thief mele elite will be a pain for d/d too….

Ele will get tempest which we all know will never see the light of the day in PvP..so D/D is for the next 2-3 years and still….we need to nerf d/d ele to the ground right?
The entire profession rely on gimmicks to be considered viable, remove those and you need to go back to the drawing board, something the devs are not intended to do so…

Another perspective on Elementalists

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

The main differences between GW1 and GW2 ele are many. I used an ele in gw1 for at least 7 years, that game in terms of balance, fun and general design direction..will remain uncontested, it was a game designed with the old idea of MMO in mind, basically it was not designed to be a casual game.

The design differences between gw1 and gw2 ele are like night and day, the base design of the gw2 ele is the most awful idea I ever seen in a videogame, they tried to be cool, innovative..but they failed on every possible level

At this point any kind of change will amount to nothing as the core idea of the class is a total failure

It’s great to talk with a GW1 vet, it’s refreshing talking to an actual MMO player !

LOL im sorry but after playing WOW and CHAMPIONS ONLINE, with a few other games. GW1 was not up to par PvP with those games and actually all GW1 had over the over MMOs is great story telling and lore.

I actually quit playing GW1 to play Diablo 2 ladder,(nothing but grinding levels and gear) Please understand a majority of people dont like the trinity system.

It depends on your priorities , let me list mine:

1) Every profession had a role and everyone was useful somehow
2) There was always space for your class whichever it was and at any level
3) You never felt wasted the time spent leveling a class
4) There was actual strategy involved, I will never agree with the “aoe spam on point” main strategy of GW2

The trinity system is the only true essence of MMOs as they’re supposed to be played, MMO stands for Massive Multiplayer Online : you’re not the main hero.

But what people ask in this game is for something akin to an online version of Skyrim, where you max your hero to do whatever…

Dat 4 ele comp

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

ANet should really put HoT development on hold and take the time to nerf ele (butcher it, thanks) or, by the time they release HoT, the player base will be so low, they will have a hard time selling enough copies. (Unfortunately, I know I’m wrong, because vast majority of remaining players don’t PvP, it’s so sad…)

Just felt I should point out that SPvP is probably the smallest player base out of the 3 major game modes, so you’re exaggerating a bit there. And judging from how many Rev finishers I see, HoT prepurchases aren’t exactly collecting dust on the shelf.

But attitudes like that(see “butcher it”) are part of the reason balance is so hard to achieve and why so many people can’t accept already balanced things. People let their personal opinions affect what they think is broken and should be nerfed and don’t really care to what extent it is, just so long as they never have to deal with it again. Why? Because they don’t care about the outcome of that class because they don’t play it.

There are lots of things that need to be tweaked, changed, balanced, buffed and yes, nerfed. But the answer for something needing a change shouldn’t be “nerf it into the ground so it isn’t even remotely usable anymore”. Eles(and mesmers too) already endured that once, I’d prefer that it not happen again.

I’d be fun to see ele nerfed for another year, (like 2013) then buffed the following year ^^, that would be epic. This will be the test of fire for gw2 devs, will they be able to apply objective and clear changes….or will they succumb to the cries of the angry mob?

A sensible person would hope for the first option, because after ele something else will come out and take its place ,guaranteed

Dat 4 ele comp

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

..another “nerf ele” thread , like there are not already dozen of them…sometimes I wonder if people buy games just to have forum accounts but more than anything why playing something that makes you that angry and salty? Games are meant to be fun, if you’re not having fun, buy another product and leave for good

If ppl play ele to faceroll and AFKwin, there’s no need to play this game either, is there?

Play what you think will make you enjoy the game..or you can keep playing whatever just to hold on that internet proudness of yours, thinking that any “skill talk” in a videogame means anything

Dat 4 ele comp

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

..another “nerf ele” thread , like there are not already dozen of them…sometimes I wonder if people buy games just to have forum accounts but more than anything why playing something that makes you that angry and salty? Games are meant to be fun, if you’re not having fun, buy another product and leave for good

(edited by Supreme.3164)

Issues with the elementalist Fire line

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Most specialisations focus on a specific area such as defense, party support, power damage, condition damage, control. This was even emphasised in the (in my opinion correct) decision to move the engineer trait Incendiary Powder from the power-focussed Explosions line to the condition-focussed Firearms line.

Now if we look at the fire line, it provides significant buffs in three seperate areas:

In the power area, we have 10% damage to burning foes, 10% damage while in fire (burning speed and fire grab are both significant sources of dps in the build), reduced cooldown on those skills and might on cantrips.

In the condition area, we have an additional fire aura per rotation (more burn), additional cleansing fire (3 stacks of burn) proccing every 32s and might on cantrips.

In the defense area we have Blinding Ashes. Now besides the burning from the fire skills, there is also the fire aura combo gained on the opposite side of the rotation that means that the blind frequency is fairly close to the 5s icd, which is a rather high blind frequency. There is also the additional condition cleanse (3 conditions every 32s).

As you can see, the fire line really gives too much to three separate areas for a single trait line. There are two ways to address this. Either knock one of these areas out of the fire line, or reduce the potency of these areas. I’ll let you decide which would be best, but increasing the icd of Blinding Ashes to around 12s would be a good start. This trait alone currently gives as much defense as half of the earth line.

P.S. For anyone who doesn’t know me, I main D/D celestial elementalist and actively play it in the NA esl scene at this point in time.

Regardless of what you play or not, your analysis is wrong.
First of all you talk like the ele only has one weapon set, therefore is ok to nerf a traitline…like seriously?

Second of all when you talk about condi cleanse, do take into consideration, the final number of conditions cleansed and the frequency and compare it to what other professions get when they do spec for condi clear, here a fast calculation : ele clears 6 condis every 32s, 2 condis every 10s, 1 condi every 32s, 1 condi every 60s; on ranger I can get 4 condis cleared every 20s, 4 condis cleared every 48s, all of the condis cleared every 48s. It’s the ele condi cleare capability that outrageous when talking about numbers?..obviously not

Now going back to my first point:
is a staff ele specced in fire a power house, burning/blinding people non stop?……No
is a scepter ele equally specced fire any useful?…..absolutely NO

So outside a couple of traits that need adjustment, the fire line is fine, it provides exactly what it was designed for : power increase and condi/direct damage pressure

I don’t see any offensive trait line in game without a hefty amount of defensive options in it, name me a single profession with an offensive trait line that lacks any sort of defensive options…

So the real problem is clear, the weapon set itself, simply reduce the burn application of the weapon set and you’d solve all problems but…that won’t satiate the angry mob I know.

Another perspective on Elementalists

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

The main differences between GW1 and GW2 ele are many. I used an ele in gw1 for at least 7 years, that game in terms of balance, fun and general design direction..will remain uncontested, it was a game designed with the old idea of MMO in mind, basically it was not designed to be a casual game.

The design differences between gw1 and gw2 ele are like night and day, the base design of the gw2 ele is the most awful idea I ever seen in a videogame, they tried to be cool, innovative..but they failed on every possible level

At this point any kind of change will amount to nothing as the core idea of the class is a total failure

It’s great to talk with a GW1 vet, it’s refreshing talking to an actual MMO player !

ANET PLOX MMR system is infuriating

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

OMG sample size of 3! Matchmaking MUST be broken! Ignore the THOUSANDS of successful even matchups that happen every day!

Why do you appear in every thread that mention MMR, defending it to the bitter end? let other have their own opinion and stop thinking that your should be considered a law

Which Classes Do Thieves Counter Now?

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

There is no easy mode for thief, every class can just obliterate them. Thing is… IF thief dont want to fight there is almost NO way for him to die. Shadowsteps Invis using hs to move forward faster/run allows him to instill fear in enemies. I often go far show myself resteath/show myself restealth(shadow refuge) and run away. This way enemy will think ur nearby and wont leave point. I often get 2/3 ppl staying on POINT waiting for me when im easy decaping other point. Thief is rly bad for 1v1 nowadays, any player that played thief for like 1 month will be able to solo thiefs on other classes in 1v1. But still there is no better class with constant movement insane rezzing(shadowarts ress trait) and can outplay anyone.

+1

High MMR is punished for solo que

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

I heard all time players complain about the machmaking does anyone though that they are the problem, every time the others are the noobs and they are just the unlucky .
Before sometime i have 4 wins in a row in the 5th game a player complaining about the machmaking and he loose 10 games in a row of course we loose the game, now tell me he was so unlucky or he was the problem;

So…I manage to win majority of team fights I cap/decap with a staff build, I ress people, stop stomps, end up with 3x more pts than the rest of my team where 1-2 people have 0 pts 4-5m into the match…and I am the kittening problem?

My queue wait is 6m+ and on average as solo player I will lose 9 matches out of 10, the players I get…are impossibly bad, no word to describe how bad they are; most of them will literally die the sec an enemy looks in their direction, dunno how many times I get the combat medic title….

Not even if you try , you can make a worst system than this…

High MMR is punished for solo que

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

This is possibly the worst pvp system I ever seen implemented in a videogame…