Guild Wars 2

messiah.1908:

Engi nerf train is on your way

The nerf train comes for everybody, this is a MMO forum after all :-)

Ross Biddle.2367:

and rock beats scissors..

leaving paper to beat rock..

what beats diamond skin bunker tempest?

Is it Rev, or has the nerf hammer beat him into submission?

I say….nerf diamond skin :-), if only to see what you will complain about when losing against eles anyway ^^

TheDevice.2751
A tempest can take out 20k hp in under 3 seconds while not even using all his healing.
Daredevils cannot be seen nor can they be hit and if they do get hit they reset the fight.

So tempests that deal 20k dmg in less than 3s and daredevils that perma stealth..kk :-)

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

Malchior.5732:

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

Malchior.5732:

Supreme.3164:

StickerHappy.8052:

BlackBeard.2873:

I’m all for nerfing the crap out of terribly-designed passives. I want to see more passives nerfed too (all those offensive passive procs like panic strike and incendiary powder especially). I would love to see traits modify active skills in interesting ways to promote different skill usages, as opposed to making hard-counters.

My previous suggestion:
You become immune to the following conditions depending on your current attunement:
Fire: Chill, burning
Air: Weakness, torment
Earth: Cripple, bleed
Water: poison, confusion

It creates interesting play for both the ele and the enemy. No matter what your strategy, even something like a burn guardian, you have significant windows to do your thing (save all your burn burst for after they leave fire, profit), while as an ele you have new defensive options if you intelligently use your attunements. Both sides can know what is going on and adjust their play actively to respond to one another – this is good design.

You are forgetting to look at the other side of the coin.

How bout condi spammers?

Yeah….@BlackBeard “tends” to forget always about the other side of the coin :* ridiculous burst ( like 12k dmg with 1-2 skills on 8-10s CD); braindead condi spamm( chill/chill/chill/torment/torment/torment/confusion looolololo); CC/daze spamm etc etc*

Uh, that isn’t neglecting the other side of the coin.
Some condi builds being a little too strong doesn’t change the fact that Diamond Skin is poorly designed and could be HEAVILY improved.
He never said braindead condis are fine.

Pretty much this! I have been campaigning for EVERYTHING to be nerfed, and poorly designed traits/skills to be reworked. Diamond skin falls into that second category, but it doesn’t mean the first category should be ignored. This thread just isn’t about the first category.

Nerfing diamond skin won’t do anything except delete the auramancer build

So, change Diamond Skin and change Auramancer accordingly so it doesn’t need to rely on cancerous passive traits?

Was referring to meta auramancer, the concept itself won’t disappear, it will change to something less team support and more self-sustain…either way a skilled ele would still triumph over cancerous and effortless condi spam, meanwhile the true intent of these threads remains hidden to the masses these thread are not merely focused on diamond skin, the real aim is to destroy the last bastion of hope against condi spam.

The diamond skin nerf crusade is just a facade, I guarantee you that with the trait gone…the same necros(+ lone burn guard) will jump on the next nerf crusade which is ele sustain in general with more emphases on the ele ability to recover from mindless condi spam

100% wrong. If you read many of the posts, they’re not even talking about nerfing the trait, but changing it so it allows more counterplay. Right now the trait shuts down some builds completely, while is useless against other builds. Reworking it would also not change the amount of support auramancer has, since the trait is 100% selfish. You really need to stop defending badly designed traits if you actually want the game to be balanced.

You should learn to read properly

the concept itself won’t disappear, it will change to something less team support and more self-sustain

; that’s to say that a nerf to DS won’t even remove aurashare from meta

The trait doesn’t shut down anybody other than below average players and the game should not be balanced ever around them.

Silv.9207
The only thing to do is reduce the effectiveness of the combination DS/Tempest, reducing by a large amount the heal of auras, inserting a big internal cooldown (9-10 sec for every aura to active the heal?), or reducing the effect of Diamond Skin to only the Damaging Conditions (making us able to inflict vulnerability, cripple, fear, immobilize, ……..). Or making DS give Resistance every time you have 3 or more conditions for 3-4 seconds every 8 seconds, while up 80% hp (reduce the effect but increase the hp range can work pretty well).

Given his complete lack of knowledge, this guy ( and others) truly believe that butchering the earth/tempest line ( like it would ever happen ) would allow him to beat a decent player on ele

They don’t want only “nerf” DS, they want to nerf : protection, healing, damage

Against direct damage classes a tempest isn’t week, is strong, hard to kill, have mobility, heal, protection, permanent regeneration, insane stack of might and high condi and direct damage at the same time.

Basically everything…

You even get people here lamenting about geomancer freedom and lucid singularity, @Laraley how can you stand up for this level of skill?

They blame everything but…their own lack of practice, seriously..how sad

Lyger.5429:

Supreme.3164:

extreme bunker exist because those professions can’t play extreme burst

This is still false as post June 26th patch every class (with the exception of elementalist) could play burst fairly well. The current meta was not directly caused by extreme burst. It was due to lack of balance and forethought on Anet’s part concerning certain skills & traits.

We have hundreds of MMO nowadays, all different in gameplay, art and design…still they all share one common aspect: *the inability of players to recognize their own incompetence when it comes to defeat

Malchior.5732:

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

Malchior.5732:

Supreme.3164:

StickerHappy.8052:

BlackBeard.2873:

I’m all for nerfing the crap out of terribly-designed passives. I want to see more passives nerfed too (all those offensive passive procs like panic strike and incendiary powder especially). I would love to see traits modify active skills in interesting ways to promote different skill usages, as opposed to making hard-counters.

My previous suggestion:
You become immune to the following conditions depending on your current attunement:
Fire: Chill, burning
Air: Weakness, torment
Earth: Cripple, bleed
Water: poison, confusion

It creates interesting play for both the ele and the enemy. No matter what your strategy, even something like a burn guardian, you have significant windows to do your thing (save all your burn burst for after they leave fire, profit), while as an ele you have new defensive options if you intelligently use your attunements. Both sides can know what is going on and adjust their play actively to respond to one another – this is good design.

You are forgetting to look at the other side of the coin.

How bout condi spammers?

Yeah….@BlackBeard “tends” to forget always about the other side of the coin :* ridiculous burst ( like 12k dmg with 1-2 skills on 8-10s CD); braindead condi spamm( chill/chill/chill/torment/torment/torment/confusion looolololo); CC/daze spamm etc etc*

Uh, that isn’t neglecting the other side of the coin.
Some condi builds being a little too strong doesn’t change the fact that Diamond Skin is poorly designed and could be HEAVILY improved.
He never said braindead condis are fine.

Pretty much this! I have been campaigning for EVERYTHING to be nerfed, and poorly designed traits/skills to be reworked. Diamond skin falls into that second category, but it doesn’t mean the first category should be ignored. This thread just isn’t about the first category.

Nerfing diamond skin won’t do anything except delete the auramancer build

So, change Diamond Skin and change Auramancer accordingly so it doesn’t need to rely on cancerous passive traits?

Was referring to meta auramancer, the concept itself won’t disappear, it will change to something less team support and more self-sustain…either way a skilled ele would still triumph over cancerous and effortless condi spam, meanwhile the true intent of these threads remains hidden to the masses these thread are not merely focused on diamond skin, the real aim is to destroy the last bastion of hope against condi spam.

The diamond skin nerf crusade is just a facade, I guarantee you that with the trait gone…the same necros(+ lone burn guard) will jump on the next nerf crusade which is ele sustain in general with more emphases on the ele ability to recover from mindless condi spam

BlackBeard.2873:

Malchior.5732:

Supreme.3164:

StickerHappy.8052:

BlackBeard.2873:

I’m all for nerfing the crap out of terribly-designed passives. I want to see more passives nerfed too (all those offensive passive procs like panic strike and incendiary powder especially). I would love to see traits modify active skills in interesting ways to promote different skill usages, as opposed to making hard-counters.

My previous suggestion:
You become immune to the following conditions depending on your current attunement:
Fire: Chill, burning
Air: Weakness, torment
Earth: Cripple, bleed
Water: poison, confusion

It creates interesting play for both the ele and the enemy. No matter what your strategy, even something like a burn guardian, you have significant windows to do your thing (save all your burn burst for after they leave fire, profit), while as an ele you have new defensive options if you intelligently use your attunements. Both sides can know what is going on and adjust their play actively to respond to one another – this is good design.

You are forgetting to look at the other side of the coin.

How bout condi spammers?

Yeah….@BlackBeard “tends” to forget always about the other side of the coin :* ridiculous burst ( like 12k dmg with 1-2 skills on 8-10s CD); braindead condi spamm( chill/chill/chill/torment/torment/torment/confusion looolololo); CC/daze spamm etc etc*

Uh, that isn’t neglecting the other side of the coin.
Some condi builds being a little too strong doesn’t change the fact that Diamond Skin is poorly designed and could be HEAVILY improved.
He never said braindead condis are fine.

Pretty much this! I have been campaigning for EVERYTHING to be nerfed, and poorly designed traits/skills to be reworked. Diamond skin falls into that second category, but it doesn’t mean the first category should be ignored. This thread just isn’t about the first category.

Nerfing diamond skin won’t do anything except delete the auramancer build

Azukas.1426:

Thief don’t 1 shot anyone anymore. They have been officially removed off the “Extreme Burst” list.

Also even if we removed thieves from the game (why you focus,on such a insignificant class for you argument is beyond me) no one would play glass period. In fact going back to the last few metal this fact remains the same due to bunkers/bruisers far outclassing glass in terms of effectiveness.

Heck even in 1v1s most glass builds were stronger vs a thief.

The bunker specs need to go. The masses have spoken and will be assuring anet feels their displeasure in their pockets.

The masses don’t get how balance process works, a balance process centered around overall forum happiness rather than objective decision, it’s a two face coin

If you nerf one side only, the other side will become the overperforming one, resulting in its eventual nerf soon or later; if you nerf bunkers..then burst will become too much to handle..and the masses will speak again :-)

Aomine.5012:

Supreme.3164:

Aomine.5012:

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

Arken.3725:

2 cents.

If all you do is nerf those 2, you’ll still have Tempests/Druids bunkering it up like before with Scrappers providing similar sustain with higher damage-output. Gotta look at the whole picture, not just these 2.

Agree with you here. EVERY SINGLE ELITE SPEC does too much, probably even berserker (although it is hard to tell b/c that mythical beast is rarely seen). If you nerf just the top dog, then the mantle just shifts slightly to the next guy and you don’t really change anything.

However, at least things like druid/tempest/scrapper etc. get their defense with a little more counterplay (not hard mitigation in the form of evades/blocks/invulns/etc.) making them succumb to focus-fire a bit easier. That isn’t to say they aren’t over-tuned, but since there is a stubborn refusal to do anything but the most token of balances, I’d say this the bare minimum.

At the very least, however, they should make well of precog give invuln and prevent capture-point contribution. That would at least make bunker mesmers much worse at holding 1vX for so long without getting decapped.

You can’t simply nerf bunkers while leaving the burst builds untouched, that’s just ridiculous

-Dragon Hunter, Burn Guardian, Thief, Chronoshatter, Reaper…these are not gone anywhere, they’re still here with us

Extreme bunkers exist as a consequence of Extreme Burst

Na, the current top bunker builds can handle any burst build 1 v 2 pretty handily because it uses active invulnerable/evade/block on a short cool down or some passive perma -40% damage, passive aura spam, passive on swap trait/sigil, passive heal, passive immune cond to soak up everything.

The broken part is those bunkers not only hold well against 1 v x, it also is very good at 1 v 1. If you use a non-bunker against them, you not only can’t kill them, they also have quite a high chance to kill you instead.

Best example is Tempest VS Thief/Daredevil. Tempest can soak up everything thief throws at them , they can also easily use their passive proc and aoe spam to kill thief passively. If you don’t believe, que up your thief right now in ranked battle and see how it fair right now.

The question is..can you play a non bunker ele in general and not being one shotted by a thief or other power build? In three years nobody has been able to do that, no even TOP ESL players like @Zoose and @Phantaram.
But apparently being unable to play a non bunker ele …it’s ok, it’s balanced.

Here the best quote you’ll ever read on the forum

Vague Memory.2817
Anet trys to balance using self-interested views from the forum rather than being more objective, that is why after a balance patch things just get worse. There are blatant changes that need to be made that focuses PvP on player skill rather than passive or op effects, but they don’t have the courage to make these changes because of the outrage from people who will lose their advantage over others. Anet’s response is to even things out by giving everyone OPness which unbalances things even more.

So the solution is throwing a D/D 2.0 to Tempest.

Make sense.

But all being said, I do like Tempest very much and don’t want them lose this bunker ability that’d make Tempest suffer in HoT maps or raid.
Wish Anet just freaking separate pve and pvp skills already and nerf everything to ground in pvp for the balance.

What kind of answer is even this?

You answer to a question with a rhetoric

Ross Biddle.2367:

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

Arken.3725:

2 cents.

If all you do is nerf those 2, you’ll still have Tempests/Druids bunkering it up like before with Scrappers providing similar sustain with higher damage-output. Gotta look at the whole picture, not just these 2.

Agree with you here. EVERY SINGLE ELITE SPEC does too much, probably even berserker (although it is hard to tell b/c that mythical beast is rarely seen). If you nerf just the top dog, then the mantle just shifts slightly to the next guy and you don’t really change anything.

However, at least things like druid/tempest/scrapper etc. get their defense with a little more counterplay (not hard mitigation in the form of evades/blocks/invulns/etc.) making them succumb to focus-fire a bit easier. That isn’t to say they aren’t over-tuned, but since there is a stubborn refusal to do anything but the most token of balances, I’d say this the bare minimum.

At the very least, however, they should make well of precog give invuln and prevent capture-point contribution. That would at least make bunker mesmers much worse at holding 1vX for so long without getting decapped.

You can’t simply nerf bunkers while leaving the burst builds untouched, that’s just ridiculous

-Dragon Hunter, Burn Guardian, Thief, Chronoshatter, Reaper…these are not gone anywhere, they’re still here with us

Extreme bunkers exist as a consequence of Extreme Burst

Your argument is rhetorical. One could argue at extreme burst builds exist because of extreme bunkers. Of course neither of these statements have anything to do with why the meta is the way it is so let me enlighten.

Play to win: extreme bunkers are the strongest point holders in a game of conquest where taking and holding points indefinetly is the assured means to victory. In one circle there’s even money on the line.

This is why extreme bunkers exist, theyre the strongest approach to victory right now.

Feel free to create a thread where you list suggestions on how to give bunker classes, a viable DPS build..I’m all ears and before I conclude let me rephrase my sentence :extreme bunker exist because those professions can’t play extreme burst

Aomine.5012:

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

Arken.3725:

2 cents.

If all you do is nerf those 2, you’ll still have Tempests/Druids bunkering it up like before with Scrappers providing similar sustain with higher damage-output. Gotta look at the whole picture, not just these 2.

Agree with you here. EVERY SINGLE ELITE SPEC does too much, probably even berserker (although it is hard to tell b/c that mythical beast is rarely seen). If you nerf just the top dog, then the mantle just shifts slightly to the next guy and you don’t really change anything.

However, at least things like druid/tempest/scrapper etc. get their defense with a little more counterplay (not hard mitigation in the form of evades/blocks/invulns/etc.) making them succumb to focus-fire a bit easier. That isn’t to say they aren’t over-tuned, but since there is a stubborn refusal to do anything but the most token of balances, I’d say this the bare minimum.

At the very least, however, they should make well of precog give invuln and prevent capture-point contribution. That would at least make bunker mesmers much worse at holding 1vX for so long without getting decapped.

You can’t simply nerf bunkers while leaving the burst builds untouched, that’s just ridiculous

-Dragon Hunter, Burn Guardian, Thief, Chronoshatter, Reaper…these are not gone anywhere, they’re still here with us

Extreme bunkers exist as a consequence of Extreme Burst

Na, the current top bunker builds can handle any burst build 1 v 2 pretty handily because it uses active invulnerable/evade/block on a short cool down or some passive perma -40% damage, passive aura spam, passive on swap trait/sigil, passive heal, passive immune cond to soak up everything.

The broken part is those bunkers not only hold well against 1 v x, it also is very good at 1 v 1. If you use a non-bunker against them, you not only can’t kill them, they also have quite a high chance to kill you instead.

Best example is Tempest VS Thief/Daredevil. Tempest can soak up everything thief throws at them , they can also easily use their passive proc and aoe spam to kill thief passively. If you don’t believe, que up your thief right now in ranked battle and see how it fair right now.

The question is..can you play a non bunker ele in general and not being one shotted by a thief or other power build? In three years nobody has been able to do that, no even TOP ESL players like @Zoose and @Phantaram.
But apparently being unable to play a non bunker ele …it’s ok, it’s balanced.

Here the best quote you’ll ever read on the forum

Vague Memory.2817
Anet trys to balance using self-interested views from the forum rather than being more objective, that is why after a balance patch things just get worse. There are blatant changes that need to be made that focuses PvP on player skill rather than passive or op effects, but they don’t have the courage to make these changes because of the outrage from people who will lose their advantage over others. Anet’s response is to even things out by giving everyone OPness which unbalances things even more.

Lyger.5429:

So thief is “extreme” burst? This isn’t 2014. Also burn guards while annoying, are easily countered.

Thief is not extreme burst?…Just stop using your bunker build and see how that works for you and burn guard? …Again drop your bunker with plenty of condi clear and try to play simple DPS build with 1-2 condi clear…it’ll be fun

Just a gentle reminder for the devs : do not be misguided and blinded by the apparent truth, have the courage for once to go behind the symptoms , to go to the real causes of the problem. For once dear devs, try to balance the game from an objective point of view rather than simply try to please the angry mob

This guy, month s ago perfectly nailed it :

Vague Memory.2817
Anet trys to balance using self-interested views from the forum rather than being more objective, that is why after a balance patch things just get worse. There are blatant changes that need to be made that focuses PvP on player skill rather than passive or op effects, but they don’t have the courage to make these changes because of the outrage from people who will lose their advantage over others. Anet’s response is to even things out by giving everyone OPness which unbalances things even more.

Ok so no you have problems with bunker mesmer; so ask yourself why mesmers use bunker builds over shatter chrono? The answer is simple : Too much damage flying around and not enough sustain for a shatter build

Dear devs do try to remember how GW2 balance was just after HoT release…there were a lot of power builds like marauder tempest and why all those builds quickly disappeared?…I have two answers : DragonHunter and Power herald, the damage of these two builds is still off the MMO charts ( 12k dmg on a 4s CD + evade and teleport..what?? )

But hey let’s not forget about Reaper and the outrageous chill damage + dmg modifier on chilled enemies..

You have to realize something, dear devs, bunkers exist as a consequence of extreme burst , most professions are cutted out from the dps meta because of overly strong apex predators . To really balance the game, you must, must, must take in consideration both sides of the coin, it;’s that simple

StickerHappy.8052:

BlackBeard.2873:

I’m all for nerfing the crap out of terribly-designed passives. I want to see more passives nerfed too (all those offensive passive procs like panic strike and incendiary powder especially). I would love to see traits modify active skills in interesting ways to promote different skill usages, as opposed to making hard-counters.

My previous suggestion:
You become immune to the following conditions depending on your current attunement:
Fire: Chill, burning
Air: Weakness, torment
Earth: Cripple, bleed
Water: poison, confusion

It creates interesting play for both the ele and the enemy. No matter what your strategy, even something like a burn guardian, you have significant windows to do your thing (save all your burn burst for after they leave fire, profit), while as an ele you have new defensive options if you intelligently use your attunements. Both sides can know what is going on and adjust their play actively to respond to one another – this is good design.

You are forgetting to look at the other side of the coin.

How bout condi spammers?

Yeah….@BlackBeard “tends” to forget always about the other side of the coin :* ridiculous burst ( like 12k dmg with 1-2 skills on 8-10s CD); braindead condi spamm( chill/chill/chill/torment/torment/torment/confusion looolololo); CC/daze spamm etc etc*

BlackBeard.2873:

Arken.3725:

2 cents.

If all you do is nerf those 2, you’ll still have Tempests/Druids bunkering it up like before with Scrappers providing similar sustain with higher damage-output. Gotta look at the whole picture, not just these 2.

Agree with you here. EVERY SINGLE ELITE SPEC does too much, probably even berserker (although it is hard to tell b/c that mythical beast is rarely seen). If you nerf just the top dog, then the mantle just shifts slightly to the next guy and you don’t really change anything.

However, at least things like druid/tempest/scrapper etc. get their defense with a little more counterplay (not hard mitigation in the form of evades/blocks/invulns/etc.) making them succumb to focus-fire a bit easier. That isn’t to say they aren’t over-tuned, but since there is a stubborn refusal to do anything but the most token of balances, I’d say this the bare minimum.

At the very least, however, they should make well of precog give invuln and prevent capture-point contribution. That would at least make bunker mesmers much worse at holding 1vX for so long without getting decapped.

You can’t simply nerf bunkers while leaving the burst builds untouched, that’s just ridiculous

-Dragon Hunter, Burn Guardian, Thief, Chronoshatter, Reaper…these are not gone anywhere, they’re still here with us

Extreme bunkers exist as a consequence of Extreme Burst

SlayerSixx.5763:

Except team fights are team fights and its obvious that GW2 is trying to emulate the big names in e-sports (DOTA and LoL).

Hell, you even say it in your signature :P.

I made a thread asking for buffs on war and thief, but didn’t specify what kind of changes.

People must be careful with what they ask, every class got strengths and weaknesses, yes including thief and warrior, simply buffing war and thief to stratosphere won’t do anything for the game..you’d just change the subject of complaints.

When asking for heal burst on war…don’t forget that war can chain 2x invulnerability that doesn’t stop him from keeping the point + shield block now on reduced CD, short CD dash , berseker stancer and more. On top of this all, war can still have 18k base HP by default, add the right amulet..and you have a monster..just another one

Thief is still able to chain stealth from morning till dawn and back again

My rule of thumb is that high sustain should be available only to those who spend months on the same profession..if not years of practice, nobody should become an unkillable rambo after watching a youtube video and copy/paste a build from metabattle

SlayerSixx.5763:

choovanski.5462:

SlayerSixx.5763:

I’ve tried to theory craft some sort of rework for warrior, but how do you let them maintain their speedy burst in-your-face play style without encroaching upon thief’s territory?

Now that I think about it, placing emphasis on a speedier, more bursty play style for warrior would actually be a step in the right direction. I was always somewhat disappointed that GS war didn’t have that samurai sort of feel. Precise, methodical, and honed strikes worthy of a battle hardened soldier.

If something like this were to be done, then a thief rework would be in order as well. Something along the lines of total 1v1 domination through timed interrupts, dodges and disables all culminating in a single death blow.

Of course, this would then step on vanilla mesmer’s toes, but then you could allow them to adopt a more manipulative play style, placing more emphasis on the flow of the fight as a whole. I feel chronomancer was meant to do this, but conquest just promotes so much bunker BS, skillful and entertaining to watch fights are so far and in between that it almost makes you feel like anet honestly believes this is what good PvP looks like.

I’m scared to ask this, but did Nexon actually succeed in buying Anet behind the scenes?

it’s needs some ways to refill its health bar.

mending becoming a physical skill, so its effected by peak performance would rock. +10% healing per bar of adrenaline and 16sec CD would be great. adrenaline when attacked should be baseline too ofc. reverting the adrenaline nerf would be nice too, nice druids can keep AF out of combat.

fast hands is needs to be baseline.

a lot of warrior weapon skills need to be revamped. warrior needs more boons and debuffs. leaps need to be speed up. lots of utilutes need changes too.

there is a lot to do, and over at the warriors forum we have had a lot of gret suggestions.

I honestly believe sustain as a whole needs to take a huuuuuuuge hit. You need to build for heal and only heal for you to be able to heal yourself/allies in an efficient manner.

For instance, in LoL, there’s a support champion named Soraka. She just dumps out the healing by the crapload. Naturally, if you ignore her, her team stays alive and slaughters yours. If you focus her, you ignore the tank who’s CCing you into kingdom come and the adc/ap caster who’s melting your face instantly. Before the tank related buffs, assassins (when done right), were a ridiculously valuable asset to the team, being able to all in (and sometimes escape) a key target. By removing the Soraka, simply evading the tank’s hard engage leaves the damage dealer ripe for the reking.

As you can see, there’s a ton of things to look out for in a team fight in better balanced games. Of course, that isn’t everything, but that’s a good bit of what is involved during actual head on encounters.

What about GW2? The best teams (before cele tbh) just focus fired whoever they could catch out of position and then proceed to destroying the now outnumbered enemy. There was no key target. There was no actual depth to team fights aside from who unleashed their wombo combo first. We are in desperate need of specialization here, like actual specialization.

GW2 is a MMO..not a MOBA..comparing GW2 to LoL is like comparing an apple to a ..tuna

Warriors will deserve heal burst/boons when they lose 8k from their base HP

But wait inb4 people jump at my throat saying “HP means nothing”..I say excellent, np then reducing war base HP by 8k, but you can keep the armor bonus as a ‘gift’

Also some more thing to add before asking for heal burst on war:

-Reduce base healing of Healing Signet so “that you must have now healing power”
-Reduce base damage of skills ( so that you can’t walk around with soldier amulet dealing zerker damage)

I mean…thieves and warriors want sustain..that’s cool but be ready to give up a big chunk of your damage if you want sustain; if you think that sustain in GW2 comes like a christmas gift..think again

Vague Memory.2817
Anet trys to balance using self-interested views from the forum rather than being more objective, that is why after a balance patch things just get worse. There are blatant changes that need to be made that focuses PvP on player skill rather than passive or op effects, but they don’t have the courage to make these changes because of the outrage from people who will lose their advantage over others. Anet’s response is to even things out by giving everyone OPness which unbalances things even more.

alain.1659:

I know it is a minor problem but please, it is not diamond skin “ELE” but it is diamond skin “TEMPEST”. The title of the post is misguiding.

And yes, tempests tanking potential is silly, boring, uncreative and lacks the imaginative aspects of a good developer.

Coming from an engi this is rich really…maybe you should buy HoT and try scrapper…then come back after taking a long walk…and remove your comment, if tempest dev is bad…god forbid what should happen to the engi/scrapper designer -_-

Rym.1469:

Supreme.3164:

Lol diamond skin really went under the skin of necros so here my suggestions :

1) = Granting stab to yourself also grant 4s resistance 15s CD

2)= Condition damage reduced by 33%, condition duration reduced by 20% ( no CD, no HP reqs)

3)= send 60% of condition damage back to the source while ele is attuned to earth

These would make ele more resilient to condis while not making him unkillable and..you’d still require actually brain to win, “spamm and forget” is not a valid tactic

1) Not bad suggestion. I see you tuned the CD for overloads traited with Stability. Resistance, since it’s a boon, can be problematic with boon duration however – and we see it now.

2) God bless no. I’d prefer current Diamond Skin over suggested one.

3) Interesting, but I thought that the problem was lack of condition removal outside Water+Arcana combo, not damage.

I think Warhorn could use some cool condition removal or such thing in addition to couple other changes and then Diamond Skin could’ve been changed to trait with different role.

1) An earth ele even using durability runes, will be able to reach only 20% boon duration in PvP, around 50% boon duration in WvW( but that’s not a problem for anybody I believe) so in PvP you wouldn’t even reach 5s resistance
-The 15s CD is to prevent resistance being used back to back by overloading one attunement after the other

3) Was my idea to make ele a dangerous target to overload with condis while attuned to earth, this would open smart plays from both parties

-Warhorn is on the right track, the condi removal is already on focus, so to differentiate warhorn , we need something else like :

1) Faster activation for cyclone, tidal surge and dust storm remove the delay after the casting, there is like 1/2s after the 3/4s cast
2) Re-add the boon removal on wildfire
3) Increase dmg of lightning orb – make it faster and change vulnerability to weakness

GinghamLion.3614:

I’m sure this has been said before- but I think a good fix to Diamond skin would be that is pulses resistance on you at a reasonably high interval (basically giving you ‘perma resistance’) so the condition during the >90% hp fighting would still be applied, and then as soon as you tick them below 90, those condis suddenly take full effect. I hate fighting an ele and just seeing immune, immune, immune, immune.

A good idea , it should be implemented now

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Supreme.3164:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

hmm complain how u cant kill ele, what do you think of chrono bunker? you know those who use bunker amulet like soldier and sentinel?

GW2 rule n1: When the opponents wins…it’s never due to skill it’s always due to some “OP” aspect of his class.

A skilled ele can defeat a condi reaper without diamond skin, nerfing the trait would do little because necros will be here again asking for some other nerfs because they’re too skilled to lose to anything that’s not OP/broken

At 200% knowing the necro community, the day after ds get nerfed..they would be here asking to nerf the “OP” sustain, then they will come for the dmg…finally they’ll come because they don’t like the name “elementalist”

Hardly. Without Diamond Skin, eles have always been manageable by Necros. Never easy (aside from when Eles were the weakest class), but managable (or did you forget that post June 23, Cele Signet Necro was the only build that had a realistic chance of winning vs Celementalist, and even that was only about 50/50).

Right now, condi Necro vs Ele is decided by a simple yes/no check: Is the ele running Diamond Skin? If yes, then the Ele wins. If no, then there’s an actual fight to be had.

What most Necros (and other professions, including some Eles) are calling on for Diamond Skin isn’t a nerf, but a total rework to not make it binary in nature. Wouldn’t it be nice to pick it to ward off Soldier builds as well? This would come at the cost of being totally immune to condition builds, sure, but it would still be a strong condition defense trait, ideally.

Diamond Skin should be strong, but a single trait should never decide the fight before it’s begun.

Really diamond skin allows eles to use powerful aura and become support auramancer for the meta, should diamond cease to be useful, eles will simply use cleansing water and people would revert back to tanky roamer but this time using tempest.

In the end , the situation won’t change much for necros, when you rely on a single source of damage and typical youtube rotation (staff-staff-chill to the bone- spin to win)..you should expect to be hard-countered soon or later

Time would be better spent and changing builds rather than follow “metabattle” and youtube/twitch stream followed by copy/paste build/rotation

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

hmm complain how u cant kill ele, what do you think of chrono bunker? you know those who use bunker amulet like soldier and sentinel?

GW2 rule n1: When the opponents wins…it’s never due to skill it’s always due to some “OP” aspect of his class.

A skilled ele can defeat a condi reaper without diamond skin, nerfing the trait would do little because necros will be here again asking for some other nerfs because they’re too skilled to lose to anything that’s not OP/broken

At 200% knowing the necro community, the day after ds get nerfed..they would be here asking to nerf the “OP” sustain, then they will come for the dmg…finally they’ll come because they don’t like the name “elementalist”

Musica Arcaida.4685:

Why are you still crying over DH’s? You do realize tempest d/f aurashare eles and bunker chronomancers destroy DH’s besides others out performing them but whatever, keep crying over DH.

Lol maybe esl teams with all coordinated attacks may destroy DH; on the lower end, it’s DH everywhere, double/triple so give me a break.

Emerald-sapphire..all you see is DH-mallyx-chrono bunkers

When can we expect some updates on this legendary?
Now even the flameseeker prophecies has obtained aura+steps, there have been quite few threads with the same topic..still nothing.

We can sit here all day and talk about skill, how it’s skill to oneshot people from stealth , how shout bunker to oblivion, how to condi burst in few sec…etc etc but one thing i certain…the OP of these type of threads always play the most “skilled” profession lol

Well gw2 pvp forum is made up of four topics entirely:

1 Thief asking for buffs

2 Necro asking for buffs

3 Ranger asking for buffs

4 All 3 of them asking to nerf the rest

Been like this since launch

Trigr.6481:

Supreme.3164:

Seen thieves 1vs1 and winning chronobunker,

Ohh..another “PRO” who think thief should 1vs1 the warrior way, are you one of those who stream thief while he joins teamfights? lol..you may want to re-read the professions description..or you can keep writing guides explaining how what you say is written in the “bible”….

Seriously tired of clueless streamers self-proclaimed l33t in this game who just open the mouth….’cause they have one..unfortunately

I will pass to you my friend name : Cameron.6215;
a s/d thief currently sitting on ruby and going for diamond while I’m still emerald, he should be able to teach you couple of things or two

Seen thieves 1vs1 and winning chronobunker, scrappers, tempest, revs..only dieing to dh most times.

But go on and say that those thieves were facing scrubs..while you obviously are much better than them.

Yeah sure..all eles/mesmers/guard etc etc been fooling themselves since launch because they don’t play thief as obviously they don’t reach your amazing skill level….just give it a break already….

Lol diamond skin really went under the skin of necros so here my suggestions :

1) = Granting stab to yourself also grant 4s resistance 15s CD

2)= Condition damage reduced by 33%, condition duration reduced by 20% ( no CD, no HP reqs)

3)= send 60% of condition damage back to the source while ele is attuned to earth

These would make ele more resilient to condis while not making him unkillable and..you’d still require actually brain to win, “spamm and forget” is not a valid tactic

Sitting at 18/25 emerald now, started at 0/25 yesterday night ^^, going for sapphire too, my personal goal for this season

Phineas Poe.3018:

tico.9814:

Ten days? I played since launch and this game still a joke when it comes to PvP. Want to play competitively guess what you need to purchase HoT lol nice f2p model.

I’ve seen a lot of posts like this.

I too have been playing since launch, and PvP has certainly had its ups and downs. And helping manage a very large and active PvX guild, I will admit I’ve had the luxury of dipping my toe back into PvE and WvW whenever a certain meta is unfavorable for the engineer or if I simply dislike the way the game type is played. I know not everyone has that option or even the interest, so the mishandling of certain PvP updates hits people more than others.

This season has made me make similar thoughts, and with the fractal update next week I am considering leaving my progress at Ruby and washing my hands of this season. The purpose of this post is not to deny the mistakes ArenaNet has made. I find this meta incredibly boring to play and, as an engineer, incredibly unfavorable to my play style. I never thought I’d say this but I really would rather mainhand the grenade kit another three years than ever see this scrapper build again. I also think things like quickness resurrections and stomps, the amounts of evades, and the ever encroaching fatigue of more and more spell effects have made PvP a complete and utter mess. I don’t know if ArenaNet is capable of scaling things back without completely destroying all of the elite professions, but I am patient enough to wait and see rather than demand answers less than two weeks into the season.

Since it appears you’ve been disgruntled for almost the entirety of this game’s existence, I wonder if maybe it’d be a better use of your time to simply uninstall the game and play something else.

Maybe everybody should go and play something else so you can enjoy the game all by yourself

Elpredator.8523:

first dh was supposedly op now bunker mes is are we just gonna go through all the elite specs till they are gutted?

Exactly because Anet learnt how MMO communities work….that nothing will be gutted, like DH even bunker mes will see no major nerfs, that means the forum is used as nothing more than a rage control therapy, a place where people go to rant after a loss…

You were talking about bunker meta not the mesmer bunker meta, the build may be overtuned but for me the fix it’s simple : add some “lose capture point” note to some of the wells and skill..there…running multiple bunker mesmer becomes counterproductive

In game mode where the focus and main part is to cap point..you expect not to face bunkers?

Asking to nerf a set of bunkers does nothing because Anet will simply introduce another, you win by reaching first 500 pts and capping key areas give the most points..it’s a no brainer.

And before you think about DM….think courtyard nothing more

Out of curiosity…. a question for the whole community: how can Abjured BEAT everything thrown at them when the rest of the community( including other TOP teams) complain about the flavour of the month meta?

This Abjured team simply wins against everything deemed OP and broken by the rest of the community, they can play classes/build deemed UP by the rest and still own left and right…..are they gods…or simply better than the rest of us?

With this in mind, there is one last thing to say: with the majority of nerf requests ( made by me also) the level of skill of the parties involved, it’s never showed or explained…ask yourself why..

I find it excessive if you want to detract a pip for defeat, fine! but do so for a 300+ defeat not for a mere 20 pts difference . Despite the claims :" it’s worth trying", you still lose pips even after trying your best..may as well go afk the moment you start losing, I mean c’mon 477 to 500 and I lose a pip? why?

Ara.4569:

Leeto —> top dog.
Helseth --> not carried by his team anymore, back to trash level.

I think necros hate @Helseth because couple of years ago he was the only TOP pvper to have the decency to speak about the condi system in GW2 and classes like necro which are nothing more than brainless spam..wish I could remember the exact video, it can be found on his twitch anyway

laquito.5269:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Helseth is banned from these forums for a reason. That reason is that he is an online troll and bully. Some of the comments he has made about specific devs in the past make it even more hilarious that those same devs would ever listen to what he has to say. One time on twitch or youtube some of the things he said about karl and roy should of earned him a perma ban from all things gw2. Surprised anet never had the integrity to shut down such toxic members of the community

Careful what you wish for. You’d probably be the first person I’d ban if we’re solely talking about toxicity and constructivism. Nothing but relentless whining and complaining about classes other than necro.

People either love him or hate him, but Helseth actually knows what he’s talking about and unlike a majority of the pro players he actually cares enough about the game to speak up and point out the obvious flaws. If you’re upset over some banter and trash talk you either have to be a kid or have some serious self-esteem issues. I think most of the pvp players enjoy his impersonisation, whether its real or not.

+1000…this Henry guy has been whining about anything but necro for the last 3 years, never banned despite the amount of troll threads, at least @Helseth is way more objective than he is

All the protection in the world won’t reduce the train wreck coming from revs, DH, and even power druid…without stone heart you’re toasted in those match up even if you have 24/7 protection that’s why the frustration..all that protection does nothing against one button KO skills like Unrelenting assault, deathly chill, DH braindead traps, druid stupid kittening new pets hitting like a truck while the ranger spam 5s cd daze etc etc

How can anybody come here saying the tempest or ele is OP? Do people even watch ESL? Not a single 1vs1 won by a tempest, all wrecked in no time when focused down, the top ele switched to rev and you still get “Ele sustain is OP QQ” 2012 type of threads…unbelievable

nearlight.3064:

Supreme, you just copied this from your condihate thread.

This post is talking about tempest being too strong due to infinite protection, not addressing its ability to handle conditions.

As it stands, tempest can stall most other builds in the game in a 1v1. It may die when it gets focused by two or three people, but in a 1v1 it stalls things too many things too well.

I just feel as though using overload earth off cooldown to maintain infinite protection is unhealthy for the game since it gives an opponent playing a power build few windows to exploit to try and coordinate a burst.

But don’t worry chronomancer is way worse in every way. Since the spam evasion instead of protection,

Can you explain to me what would be the point of having a bunker build not able to stall most builds 1vs1?

Where is my sustain if I want to play a burst build and go toe to toe with a thief, mesmer, rev, dragon hunter etc etc?

So let me get this straight all other professions should have multiple build with which cover multiple roles and of top of that they should have a fair chance against the only role eles can cover, just delete eles then?

-mesmers can bunker and burst have top end builds
-rangers can bunker , condi and power all viable build with the bunker being top end
-necro can power, condi, semi bunker
-guardians can “bunker”, power, condi
-revenant can power/condi
-engi can power/condi/bunker

..ele can bunker…nope too OP nerf it -_-

The fact that other professions can choose what amulet to run while ele is cele amulet or go die in kitten is ofc fine for you also

The fact that you mention how ele can stall not even win some 1vs1 and how that is apparently OP..is amazing, you know I can count on a single hand the number of people who made an ele to play a healbot with zero 1vs1 potential

And btw….during last ESL no team with double ele has won where is your OP 1vs1 unbreakable diamond skin tempest? Find it for me pls

Can the devs at least grant me this act of mercy?
Don’t know what works, : begging doesn’t, praying doesn’t also….just pls disable daily pvp during season…or find a way to stop people from trying their daily in ranked ty

NeXeD.3042:

Supreme.3164:

NeXeD.3042:

Firebird.8324:

Condi from Reaper isn’t that bad because reaper has no disengage mechanic, start with zero DS, and don’t have terribly high sustain with crazy nerfed blighter’s boon.

The build that SHOULD get nerfed is the CRAZY condi/high damage/insane sustain shiro/malyx herald rev build, this one http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Herald_-_Condition_Mallyx I mean, it’s just perfect, it has like, everything. Just run 2 of those herald builds and a tempest with a druid watching home and then whatever the kitten u want as a fifth and GG u win.

Plus mallyx revs and tempests beat the kitten out of reapers.

Tempest doesn’t beat any decent reaper at high level , 1vs1 and with the tempest using diamond skin. Assuming the ele using d/f earth then he won’t have the dmg to down the reaper before somebody comes to help the reaper and even in those “rare” occasions that you face full condi team, 1-2 carrion reapers are still able to break through diamond skin so…

your statement that tempest beats reaper only counts in hotjoin (barely) or extremely low level of pvp where nobody rotate

Even against carrion all the tempest has to do is kite when the reaper goes into rs and he can’t do crap to the reaper. I’m dont agree with equally skilled condi reaper beating an equally skilled tempest, and although I wouldn’t call myself a super skilled pvper, I wouldn’t call myself low level either.

Again that rare 1vs1 condi build vs hardcounter only happens in hotjoin and low level MMR where nobody rotates, 3-4 players zerg bosses or cap a point.
At “my” level, a decent necro won’t spend more than 20s if he finds me defending close, if he’s the necro pushing far alone and if I have slotted DS.

You accomplish nothing if you can’t actually kill quickly the necro, something which doesn’t happen before help comes his direction at high MMR, immediately there your DS becomes useless

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/27937802 2x DS lose, watch EU esl, again 2x DS (purple noise) lose ( badly lose) to reaper/rev comp.

nearlight.3064:

I think the AoE cleanse and protection spam builds are the strongest. With soldier runes and torrents and cleansing water and diamond skin, you basically delete condition pressure from the enemy team.

But yeah I do think maybe elemental shielding should be ICDed or something to at least give other people gaps in the tempest’s infinite protection rotation, since no one runs boon strip on mesmer anymore to play the much more braindead chronobunker. I do like things about tempest like the positional gameplay of overloads and wash the pain away. I like the skillful support it brings. I don’t like how it can easily hardcounter certain builds in many situations though.

There is no point in complaining because your remarks are horrendously wrong, the tempest defenses are not even half as strong as you make them to be….

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/27923458 skip to 1:52:34

Double ele/double diamond skin facerolled by rev/reaper comp; diamond skin only works at low MMR against below average condi players and their bad team

-Every half decent necro will just outrotate you if you try to solo defend a point and just send a power build your way, then join and screw you over

-In team fights, he will just call target you and easily down you

Seriously we’ve been playing around in the “diamond skin too strong” thread but in the end of the day as somebody already pointed out, the trait is useless above hotjoin level, honestly you can delete diamond skin if it makes you happy.

If the main objective was to duel reaper or mallyx rev then there are far better options

1) Fire line = cleansing fire+fire aura on attunement change(10s CD)invigorating torrentaura on overload + cleansing fire utility( optional) + lucid singularity ( bug fixed, remove chill/immobilize/cripple and grants 100% immunity = earth overload to counter fear spam)
2)Stop drop and roll
3) Svanir runes +geomancer freedom + the rest
4) staff + ER + rock solid
5) Focus

And I’m sure there are other ways to negate the hardcountering chill reaper, no delete the build but simply avoid to be hardcountered by him

And perma protection? pls..without stone heart a rev or dh couldn’t care less about your perma protection

I’m not saying tempest is not viable but your assertion that a soldier/shout tempest delete condi pressure from enemy team ..it’s so…outrageous lie, just watch ESL and see for yourself.

We’re talking about esl..now try your “panacea” tempest as solo player and tell me how that work for you

P.S another double diamond skin ele getting stomped into the ground

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/27937802

As I’ve said : " above hotjoin diamond skin is useless"

Morderger.6298:

I really did enjoy this game and the ele class. I mostly pvp and have 5500(maybe 1500 staff maurader) games on my main ele. I have three actually setup, when I cared enough to change specs and try to counter build the other team. But now? We have nothing, but one useful build. It saddens me. I picked ele because I was looking for that powerhouse mage backliner kind of thing. Where you needed positioning and kiting to survive. But as you all know our burst builds always took last place over the others. Every class basically has insta teleports or leaps that are on lower cooldowns than our own making kiting worthless. Along with easily spam-able auto attacks which hit harder than most of what we cast that take 1 to 4seconds to get off and are mostly locked in place.

I’ve tried my best to make marauder staff tempest to work and at times its gimmicky and does pull off. But you are basically just spamming air overload. I just wish we had a mage class that could actually be a mage. If we try anything other than bunker we are food for any other class. I been fighting thieves who are just spamming vault and hitting me for 8k+ damage which is also an evade, which is pretty easy to use to dodge a 1 second cast time auto attack that misses if anything jumps or moves side to side or basically anything else we can cast.

I’ve had ranger arrows and engi pistol or basically any other class ranged autos that will basically follow you like homing missiles. Our auto attacks are just basically garbage on every weapon. How is this possible? They are basically spammed only for heals, or were before hots release. And on top of the auto attacks, My fireballs look like flaming pebbles now. Lets make a list of who has better ranged auto attacks….

Ranger – longbow, shortbow, staff? pets? (lol)
Engi – pistol(apply condis), rifle
Guardian- scepter, longbow? how is this possible?
Rev – Hammer? lol?
Mesmer – Greatsword? Scepter?
Warrior – Rifle
Thief – pistol, shortbow
Necro – axe, scepter? not really sure about necro ranged autos

Anyway not really sure where I wanted this to go. Just finally had it with hoping anet would balance something. Except every major balance patch was just basically an overhaul that never addressed balanced. Never addressing the actual issues on what was pushing certain builds out of the meta. Am I alone in this? Is it a L2p issue? Did anyone else actually want to play a mage class and not a buff/healing bot?

We have been actively asking to get back our ele from GW1 and remove the elemental version of a protection monk that gw2 devs call elementalist…3 years no change, no change will ever come so…play the buff/healing bot and wear down targets after min 1m fight or move to mesmer if you want a burst mage

Salamander.2504:

Supreme, I don’t play any condi builds, man. I just deal with it. Nothing I said is based on my “ego,” and I haven’t told anyone to “L2P”. Do you think we can keep the discussion civil without going ad hominem?

As for your specific gripes:
1) Yeah druid has a lot of daze, but you’re problem is CC, not condi, and I agree that CC in PvP has become too frequent with HoT elite specs.
2) Yeah rev is pretty strong, but it’s hard to argue the problem is in their auto-attack…
3) Agreed that reaper Deathly Chill trait could use a damage reduction. If you look in my post history, I’ve proposed to reduce the scaling from 3.0 to 2.5.
4) Soldier runes rock, man.

I didn’t quote you because I wasn’t answering to you, was referring to this @ragnarok guy who keeps telling other to l2p when most top players agree that cc/condi spamm is out of control, I mean just take a look at current team compositions.

It’s not like you get outplayed and you must accept your defeat, from one side you get dazed for 2s every 5s or immobilized/crippled then you get feared/chilled/tormented to death and with soldier runes you still can’t do anything, you get swamped by several stacks of condis while losing control of your character

On a point you dodge left and you get dazed lock from the right, you cleanse that torment/chill combo and another comes 2s later +immobilize/crippled/fear, you use another stun break trying to move and you get caught by a well of gravity followed by more fear/chill spamm…seriously ridicolous

ragnarokda.1805:

Salamander.2504:

There was actually a post on protection and conditions awhile back..https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Conditions-and-protection-A-solution/first#post5384844

I’m not sure one way or the other if it’s the right thing to do. As some folks pointed out in that thread, do we really want to make the most powerful boon even more powerful?

I think condi’s are generally in a fine place right now. Everyone is so excited to run the elite specs a lot of us have left condi cleanse at the wayside, which is our own fault. I see the condi reaper and condi rev dominance as a temporary thing…inevitably people will adapt and begin running soldier runes again. And there’s no excuse not to. Before it was limited to guardian, warrior (and some bold rangers), but now that role is opened up to tempests and reapers, too.

Oh yeah absolutely. Everything is still new and shiny and people want to play with that stuff. It’s understandable. I personally think condition is fine as well but, man, the crying hurts my ears. And it’s not even just in the forums. In game people are just as bad… Before june23 killing someone with condition damage never warranted any comment but now people don’t hesitate to say something like, “Why you running a cheese build? Condi is cheese! You’re so bad your condis have to do the work instead of you!”

Look, I get that in the past condi wasn’t as dangerous but it is now. Lol it hasn’t functionally changed it just does damage that is almost comparable to power damage.

I’ve never had to defend DoTs in an MMO before… Like… Ever? People just understood in all other MMOs that I’ve played that if you eat a bunch of condi applications you are going to die quickly without a cleanse… Lol

You’re quite deluded if you think to be that much skilled respect to the majority, if you think that condi clear spam is the answer..pls be my guest and make a video, ‘cause if top teams die too to condi spam..I’m sure you can teach them also

Condis being too strong has already been suggested by the design lead Jon Peter before he left , the presenters during ESL week 2 were commenting on the same thing and still here you are telling others how they suck because they can’t deal with condis….

The reason why you’re defending condis that much is because you know changes are coming to certain skills whether you like it or not.

Telling others to l2p when they get chilled/feared/confused/tormented/crippled/immobilized/dazed to death is really delusional, it’s not like druids can spamm daze with celestial form or revs auto-attacking torments, reapers chill fest with RS and chronos with confusion cherries

Still here we are, deluded people telling others to use soldier runes that clear a single freaking condi for shout use do you guys even watch some high end pvp before opening your mouth or you just let your ego run free? keep at it..nerfs will come eventually

NeXeD.3042:

Firebird.8324:

Condi from Reaper isn’t that bad because reaper has no disengage mechanic, start with zero DS, and don’t have terribly high sustain with crazy nerfed blighter’s boon.

The build that SHOULD get nerfed is the CRAZY condi/high damage/insane sustain shiro/malyx herald rev build, this one http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Herald_-_Condition_Mallyx I mean, it’s just perfect, it has like, everything. Just run 2 of those herald builds and a tempest with a druid watching home and then whatever the kitten u want as a fifth and GG u win.

Plus mallyx revs and tempests beat the kitten out of reapers.

Tempest doesn’t beat any decent reaper at high level , 1vs1 and with the tempest using diamond skin. Assuming the ele using d/f earth then he won’t have the dmg to down the reaper before somebody comes to help the reaper and even in those “rare” occasions that you face full condi team, 1-2 carrion reapers are still able to break through diamond skin so…

your statement that tempest beats reaper only counts in hotjoin (barely) or extremely low level of pvp where nobody rotate

+1, quite honestly this guy is the real deal, this how life works…there is no space for idealists , become a wolf yourself..or get devoured by them as a sheep

Well said my friend..well said ^^