Assuming equal skill, I’d say Druid IMO. Whoever said power Rev hasnt probably fought a decent player on a full condi build. Gonna need help clearing multiple condi bombs.
If I see someone running full condi, do you know what I do as a power rev?
Tell the DS ele to fight them instead.
Or if I think it’s likely I’m going to have to fight a necro 1v1, I switch off of rev.
I don’t like fighting necros on rev.Then again, I also don’t like playing rev.
The fact that you switch …is why you will lose always every 1vs1 against good player on any class
As a matter of fact a decent ele doesn’t need DS to beat a reaper , similarly a corruption rev can still win against reaper…it’s all a matter of personal skill.
But people who simply switch between meta builds will never get that as their skill level is greatly limited in scope
“But people who simply switch between meta builds will never get that as their skill level is greatly limited in scope”
1. Power Rev isn’t meta.
2. My reaper build isn’t meta.
3. My main, which is Chrono Shatter, isn’t meta.So, in conclusion.
kitten off.
Meta=viable build is not Meta= Because ESL teams use it
So in my book, chrono shatter, power rev and frostmancer ( all variants are still same traits in the reaper line so………) are still meta
Non meta build is a poison share thief or zerk staff ele for example..to say that shutter chrono is no meta ..wow..guess if tomorrow ESL team run naked thief with double pistol, the day after everybody would run the same because….meta..unbelievable
Assuming equal skill, I’d say Druid IMO. Whoever said power Rev hasnt probably fought a decent player on a full condi build. Gonna need help clearing multiple condi bombs.
If I see someone running full condi, do you know what I do as a power rev?
Tell the DS ele to fight them instead.
Or if I think it’s likely I’m going to have to fight a necro 1v1, I switch off of rev.
I don’t like fighting necros on rev.Then again, I also don’t like playing rev.
The fact that you switch …is why you will lose always every 1vs1 against good player on any class
As a matter of fact a decent ele doesn’t need DS to beat a reaper , similarly a corruption rev can still win against reaper…it’s all a matter of personal skill.
But people who simply switch between meta builds will never get that as their skill level is greatly limited in scope
I agree, but you forgot the biggest culprit:
Tempest “Overload Earth”.
This skill alone gives 30s (!!!) of AoE protection. The worst thing about the meta is: everything is shared with your allies. Meta Builds are manageable 1v1 but they are extremely hard to kill if grouped up.
Er….whut?
15 characters
So…
I was also kind of like “What”?
And I tested it in game.He’s not wrong.
It gives pulsing protection, and creates a sand storm that gives very hard pulsing protection.
So during the entire time of the actual cast, I had 3s of protection (Cast is 4s long).
Staying in the sand storm afterwards, I ended up with 21s of protection.
So, I’d say it’s actually between 25~30s. It’s pulsing, so a few seconds go by over the sandstorm. Yada yada.
That’s… Ridiculous.
Edit: It also gives 4s of stab (3 stacks), so good luck stopping it.
I’m all for removing the need for ele to be at mele range to accomplish anything, I will shortly open a [Buff Scepter] thread where I will suggest to reduce ele efficiency at mele..while making him that much harder at range
Basically I would gladly have far less protection and less need to facetank dmg while you happily kite around if…I could burst your @#X open from 900+ range with efficiency
-NOTE-
Balance: a situation in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions
That’s to say that my aim with my suggestions will be to make the game fun for everybody, without rendering useless my most hated opponents or overbuffing mine.
I want to promote high decision making, creativity and cunning so…I’m against any victory achieved by using the same copy/paste rotation seen on youtube
Mostly I’ll focus on ele as that’s what I play the most , therefore you’ll see some buffs only for ele.
[Again before continuing, I remind you that my suggestions are not made to make your life any easier, unless you can dodge, time your attacks/CC…I still want you to die and die until you L2P]
Tempest
1) Elemental bastion = base healing reduced by 33%
2) Invigorating Torrent = removed vigor/regen; added “2s quickness on aura use at 20s ICD + remove 1 condi on aura no CD”
3) Harmonious Conduit = new GM minor applies now 2 stacks of stab on overload , removed the dmg increase part
4) Hardy conduit= new master major- renamed( ????) – now increase scepter range by 300, scepter dmg increased by 15% [add few scepter buffs I’d discuss on ele subforum]
5 Diamond skin= applies 5s resistance when you have 5 condis on you , 20s CD ( brainless condi spam will be punished )
Scrapper
1) Healing Turret = casting increased from 1/2s to 1s
2 Sneak Gyro= CD increased from 20s to 75s CD
Chronomancer
1) Alacrity = bonus skills recharge reduced from 66% to 40% ( Trying to create windows of opportunity for a quick attack which atm doesn’t exist)
Dragon Hunter
1) Shield of Courage = Now block only projectiles not everything
Herald
1) Unrelenting assault = CD increased from 5s to 10s CD, number of hits reduced to 6 from 7
2) Coalescence of Ruin = now hammer 3 skill , CD increased from 2 to 8s CD, base dmg reduced by 15%
Reaper
1) = Chill base dmg reduced by 33%
Druid
1) Primal Echo = CD increased from 8s to 20s
2 Staff = Ancestral Grace moved to slot 5 CD increased from 15s CD to 30s CD, sublime conversion now slot 4 CD at 25s and vine surge moved to slot 3 at 20s CD
I’ll leave DD and berseker out, but feel free to add them if you want and discuss about the rest
This is probably the best post I’ve seen about PvP balance in the last week in this PvP subforum. Just today I played an unranked game with a bunker Tempest, that was unkillable. His insane damage reduction made him impossible to kill against our team’s power builds and diamond skin made him forget about conditions. I would like to see this nerfed (coming from an ele main!), but if you nerf DS, viper revenant facerolls everyone with its sheer condition pressure. This meta is just a vicious circle. Oh, and that Tempest also had a bunker Chrono, who was spamming him alacrity, so yea… We lost ^^
Really the celestial DS aurashare tempest keeps at bay quite few monsters like power rev, DH and others. Once defenses on the aurashare build get gutted, eles will run selfish builds that will still allow good players to win regardless on ele but will take out eles from the meta.
With ele gone, people would feel again the full brunt of power/condi builds ( no more aoe protection/condi clear on demand) and DH/glint rev would come back with a vengeance.
At that point Anet will do one of these 2 things:
A) Nerf those condi/power builds
B) Buff another spec to replace the now dead aurashare tempest
In the end…people who ask for nerfs never really win anything, they just get their own favourite build nerfed or simply replace the object of their hatred with the exact same thing but on another profession ( shoutbow———>tempest aurashare———-> ???? )
-Best player won’t run a meta build
I have to disagree here. The reason meta builds exist is because a top player will do well with that build and people will start copy-pasting it. The best players run a meta build because they’re the one who made that build meta.
I think what you mean is that meta builds don’t make you the best player.
You’re right!
And another thing about the downfalls of meta copy/paste : those builds are made with team synergy in mind, meaning the build is not the “best” for your case at every turn…like why wars insist in using gs/axe when they could exploit the lack of stab of many meta builds?I bet no war gave berseker hammer/mace/shield or hammer/LB-hammer/gs a try this meta..too bad as wars don’t need marauder/zerker amulet to deal decent dmg and be useful to the team
Ke? Mesmer bunk has much stab on shatter.
That’s when “knowing your opponent” comes handy, you can “forget” about the bunker mesmer and time your CC on those the mesmer is trying to support that lack great stab uptime.
Tried couple of time berseker hammer with headbutt( it’s not that hard to land headbutt with nice timing) for CC chain on tempest/druid( with stone signet and RaO on CD) during a team fight and the build was working.
Ofc I play war once in a bluemoon but the idea was there ( was using soldier ) : a tanky CC team fighter , with headbutt-hammer/mace you can potentially stunlock somebody so death
The way I was playing was to stunlock vulnerable targets off their stab phase ( reapers off RS, DH off longbow) and force others on defensive to allow my team to burst them down; really just giving an example on why running meta can be most times, counterproductive for you
-Best player won’t run a meta build
I have to disagree here. The reason meta builds exist is because a top player will do well with that build and people will start copy-pasting it. The best players run a meta build because they’re the one who made that build meta.
I think what you mean is that meta builds don’t make you the best player.
You’re right!
And another thing about the downfalls of meta copy/paste : those builds are made with team synergy in mind, meaning the build is not the “best” for your case at every turn…like why wars insist in using gs/axe when they could exploit the lack of stab of many meta builds?
I bet no war gave berseker hammer/mace/shield or hammer/LB-hammer/gs a try this meta..too bad as wars don’t need marauder/zerker amulet to deal decent dmg and be useful to the team
As a necro who would love to see DS get nerfed, I totally believe you could kills necros just fine without it. That class honestly isn’t that strong, some players are just intimidated by the giant marshmallow that is our healthpool.
That being said, I’ve also killed a lot of eles who didn’t have diamond skin and when they do have it I feel totally useless. That’s why we want it nerfed. Even if you lose, you want to see the effect of your actions to gauge your strategy and effectiveness.
If your opponent seems entirely undaunted and constantly at full life…it feels very pointless to participate. You want to describe a “why bother?” situation – there’s one if ever there has been.
If you can win without it, as you say, I can’t see why you should care.
I care because Anet focus more on nerfing stuff rather than buffing what has not been used for years
Ele for example has not been able to use conjures ( outside dungeon exploit with ice bow) since launch, followed by glyph and tornado elite
-the scepter is still an underwhelming weapon and so on…
It’s the same for all profession
I care because the community always gives Anet the easy way out, to shut all of you out,,they simply read the forum and nerf stuff…but they never improve anything
-They nerf vampire runes..they then add durability..they nerf durability..they will introduce other runes…..they never fix what is not used now
Best player wins always
-Best player won’t run a meta build
-Best player knows always the opponent class
Now..you can listen to my advice get out there, study the meta builds that every Tom is running and use builds that counter them…or you can listen to all the inc yapping.
In the second case, you will be here again next month..asking for best 1vs1 class, trust me
Two ages of gw2. Pre celestial and post celestial. Pre celestial took alot of skill and organisation to do well in general. Post celestial the build diversity went away and everyone just played a jack of all trades spec which could hold a point, and attack a point. Team roles like condi, bunker, dps and back point holder went away and it became a cluster.
Also celestial marked the biggest transition in players. Alot of people quit and alot of previously bad people worked their way up with the aid of celestial amulet.
Basicalky celesital amulet ruined this game completely.
I don’t think this is as true as you think it is. Without celestial, all the bunker mesmers would just run sentinels or soldier and all the tempests would likely run cleric/crusader, which would be an even worse bunker meta than we currently are in.
I don’t think what you say it’ true either, without celestial…what celestial currently keeps at bay would have get nerfed anyway; that means all professions not using celestial : necro/thief etc etc etc
Hey peeps…clean off that foam off your mouth and take a chill pill already.
All of you..just stop for a sec and start thinking; you all must realize that nerf/buff is a chain reaction always has been and always will be.
-B cry to get A nerfed
-A get nerfed, so B becomes too efficient
-C cry to get B nerfed
-B get nerfed so C becomes too efficient
It’s a rather simple concept, if you nerf the counters…then people will start abusing what has no counters anymore and this will bring a new wave of nerfs
1)Nerf bunkers
2)People will start stacking burst/condi builds
3)Burst/Condi builds get nerfed
And..one more thing : asking for nerfs won’t improve your personal skill level
(like seriously…necros foaming trying to kill off diamond skin when I kill a reaper with double signet/soothing power and written in stone like why bother asking for nerfs :-) in the first place )
A diamond skin ele, There is counterplay.
Say that to a full condition build.
Why are you playing full condi to start with?….
You can’t have build weaknesses when some professions enjoy innate better sustain than other, by innate sustain I mean before any trait or gear get applied.
Having access to strong defensive mechanics like : stealth, higher HP, blocks and clones before even traiting….makes the game unfair to start with
Your idea of build weaknesses would work if all professions would start from 0 something which will never happen, some start ( before any trait or gear get used)at 0 like ele…others start at 5-6 like stealth/block/higher HP classes
At 0 means that before traiting an ele would lose 100% against anybody who starts on other professions before traiting
-Before anything the base sustain of all professions should be reviewed…some enjoy too much of a base sustain, some others must rely entirely on traits/gear to survive
What I was referring to was that no profession should be able to create a build that is good at everything or effective in any situation, and unfortunately this is where we are at right now with pvp. I’m fine with the asymmetric game design concept (every class has access to unique skills, abilities and different base stats), but I want there to be counterplay, both pregame and emergent, to keep the gameplay fun and interesting.
That’s what I was talking about, some defensive mechanics in this game have no clear counterplay, mechanics like stealth-blocks-CC chains have no direct counterplay.
A perfect asymmetric game was GW1
-Small base stats difference between professions
-Defined and counterable defensive mechanic for every profession
Best meta : soon after dhuumfire and lyssa runes got nerfed!
These threads started by thieves players.. it has been the same song for the last 3 years, a song based on stories AKA there are no actual facts, the only truth is the one below:
In 2012 when the game was released, the d/d thief forced everybody but war/mesmer to full bunker
In 2013, the overbuffed s/d thief deleted the ele class both from PvP and WvW where everything but zerg tagging with staff was viable
In 2014, the slightly nerfed s/d thief pushed the mesmer out of PvP, and in WvW it was only PU build which saved mesmers from certain doom because of thieves
The ones below are the true imbalances of the game:
1- Stealth gives too much innate sustain
2-Stealth builds can reset the fight indefinitely as there is no counter to stealth
-Blind aoe spam is no counter..if you have more than 2 braincells when playing a thief and so on
3- Apex predator zerk builds have pushed people on bunker spec since launch, because the base design differ from profession to profession
Thief is like a school bully who goes complain to the headmaster after receiving a sound beating from the kid who learnt self-defense after being tormented for years
It’s rather sad that after 4 years thief players still try the same cards….stop it, nobody pity you, both mesmer and thief got taken out by thief for a whole year at one point at time
Thief ruined the whole GW2 balance at launch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beHJkv5gaIU&index=13&list=PLBF2912D72F052EC7
People tried to play burst builds on non stealth classes…but it is kittening impossible
Stop it already with this pointless threads…give everybody stealth and auto-target skills with huge base dmg and then you can start complaining about bunker specs
(edited by Supreme.3164)
I’d like to see some return to builds making trade-offs. I think a classic trade-off is survivability versus damage potential and I’d like to see this concept make a return. I really miss the design philosophy of ‘holes in roles’ in that by design no one class and build could be strong at everything. Every build would need kitten or a weakness that allows for pregame metaplay of making teams that cover each others weaknesses and also emergent play of the strategy (primarily rotations) to try and get the matchups you want and avoid those that you don’t.
On a more negative note, I feel that even with the best intentions by the devs the Hot specializations are going to continue to be more powerful than the base choices. I want to give the devs the benefit of the doubt here that they are out to create a competitive gamemode on a level playing field but the marketing pressure with the game now being f2p is going to trump a level playing field in the name of securing sales.
You can’t have build weaknesses when some professions enjoy innate better sustain than other, by innate sustain I mean before any trait or gear get applied.
Having access to strong defensive mechanics like : stealth, higher HP, blocks and clones before even traiting….makes the game unfair to start with
Your idea of build weaknesses would work if all professions would start from 0 something which will never happen, some start ( before any trait or gear get used)at 0 like ele…others start at 5-6 like stealth/block/higher HP classes
At 0 means that before traiting an ele would lose 100% against anybody who starts on other professions before traiting
-Before anything the base sustain of all professions should be reviewed…some enjoy too much of a base sustain, some others must rely entirely on traits/gear to survive
S/D fresh air Ele, the best build ever
That build got nerfed to hell when the game come out XD..never recovered
For all of those people saying “just run clerics or soldiers, you can tank so well” that’s the point, THE ONLY THING ELE CAN DO IS TANK/SUPPORT. Sure they can win in 1v1’s against some classes EVENTUALLY. However, that is you outplaying your opponent (except when fighting a condi necro). Also its usually against squishy targets which any build can do decent damage to as those builds have NO tanking ability. The main thing is they cant run any EFFECTIVE condi or burst roles in PvP what so ever. Even if they chose to run a zerker/marauder build, the damage is FAR lower than other burst builds and its even usually lower then a cele variant. Also, due to the squishy nature of the low defensive stats and little to no hard defense (stealth, block, invuln, blind, and stuff like that which thieves and mesmers get) they have to take a defensive amulet and cele is just the best one. Due to cele amulet is so much better for ele than any other amulet, they cant buff ele to make it viable with the other amulets because that would just turn into the cele builds being stupidly op again.
Hopefully now everyone is all on the same page as to why cele is a problem for the class.
You’ve pointed out the major freaking problem of the class : the base damage of the class is ridiculously low, that even going marauder/zerker will not bring any visible result.
To make sure ele can use other amulets in pvp, they must re-design the whole profession, it’s not a matter of simple numbers crunching
Every profession should have 3 builds including tank, dps and condition damage. And they should be working pretty well. Why? Because there are some professions that can do three of them, and there are some can not even properly do one of them.
Problem is that this game has no idea about heavy-medium-light armor difference. Tempest being the tank? Why the heck? Guardian is dps? What the actual kitten is revenant? Father of all?
Because that all the roles have been randomly given to many professions, there is no balance. Class x can play tank, condi and dps. Class y can not do even one. Class z has no condition build available.
With this system, there will not be any balance in the game. Either give all professions 3 build possibility with different variations, or limit all of them to two at least. And fix the kitten bugs. Then maybe if we be good kids we can see the smurfs.
If you want any difference between heavy/light/medium armor then do pls start taking everything in consideration.
-Wars/Rev/Guards should have 1/5 of the base dmg/mobility that they currently have and then give that dmg/mobility to light armor/low HP professions…in return you can have the tankiness
As @Forsaker says..the game has truly been forsaken
Hello spvp community,
Is it just me or the “high risk high reward” took a xX360NoScopeXx headshot in this HoT expansion pack? I feel like I just cannot play zerker and get away with outplay and superior fire power like I did before. Its so unfun and frustrating to play spvp at the moment.
Everyone and every meta class got massive passive defense aswell as passive offense. By passive defense I mean ridiculous uptime of protecition, lots of invulnerability, alot of block, toughness gain on hit, heal on hit, etc… And by passive offense I mean Rev sword #3, rev might stacking, ele fire attument overload and such…
It kills intelligent plays and excitement. Having to fight for 5 min until someone die in duel is reallly REALLY boring…
Am I the only one experimenting this?
The “high risk/high reward” part of GW2 was killed the second the devs started taking in consideration any form of forum rants
Dear Devs
Let’s be serious, despite all this talk of esport, new game modes, “shaking meta” patches, elite specializations, new weapons for each class…the question still remains…where is this build diversity?
Some professions have been stuck with the same role since BWE1, take *ele*for example forced into this bunkerbot role since 2012, despite all the promises of buffs to underused skills/utilities , here we are it’s 2015 and eles still play as bunkerbot.
Do you realize that some utilities have never seen the light of the day in PvP?….conjure-glyphs-signets
Ele still can’t play a burst role in pvp/wvw after 4 years
I wonder if anybody here still remember what the devs said to the concerned GW1 community prior to the first BWE.
The GW1 community was concerned about the build diversity that GW2 would have developed with such a narrow number of skills
The devs replied back saying something across these lines ::" It’s faster and easier to balance the game when there is a smaller number of variables, it’s easier to identity what is over performing and what requires some help"
Well…in the end it didn’t really work out that way, did it?
In reality the balance in GW2 revolves around this overbearing and self-centered community
Vague Memory.2817
Anet trys to balance using self-interested views from the forum rather than being more objective, that is why after a balance patch things just get worse. There are blatant changes that need to be made that focuses PvP on player skill rather than passive or op effects, but they don’t have the courage to make these changes because of the outrage from people who will lose their advantage over others. Anet’s response is to even things out by giving everyone OPness which unbalances things even more.
Does anybody remember : divinity runes, ogre runes, pirate runes, strength runes, turret engi, double arcane ele ect ect?
….ofc not, nobody but the devs remember all of this, which is now part of the forgotten pile of trash on top of which, rune of durability will soon be added
And when that happens, this sorry excuse of a community will hail you as heroes once again ..at least till the next “balance patch” when you will add yet another rune set and the cycle will repeat itself
Now my question is: when will you devs start balancing the game for real?
It has been 4 years now, the pile of trash has now become a mountain…
I don’t. I miss when fresh air S/F could be considered a strong pick. D/D was faceroll with some practice, and the only reason it’s not competitive now is because of the massive powercreep that came with elite specs. The build itself barely got nerfed.
I’d rather be able to build a high risk high reward DPS ele again.
D/D was faceroll soon after the burning change which saw the biggest influx of fotm players for this profession, all running fire/water/arcana..before that d/d was strong but surely not faceroll
And…s/f has never been considered a strong pick in pvp it barely got used for a month during the beginning of 2013, where people were used to tanky d/d valk and not some poker face burst ele.
Nobody was going for the ele, so the s/f had easy life..soon after people got accustomed to it and that’s it.
S/F remained as a simple yolo build for low MMR games and after the removal of bolt to the heart..not even that
Wow, seriously? Reaper?
Only elites I’d say that AREN’T blatantly stronger than the reaper are daredevil (which can totally beat reaper 1v1) and any kind of warrior.
Scrapper, Dragon hunter, Druid, Tempest, Chronomancer…all of these are waaaay more difficult to deal with than Reaper.
A necromancer saying that…reaper is weak?….well that’s a surprise :-)
I eat reapers for breakfast with my warrior.
No you don’t, the smart ones will just wait out for berseker stance
If GW1 was so good, it would still be healthy. But it’s not, it’s nothing but a dying husk.
Its dying, because its not supported by ANet anymore.
No patches, no support, no anything, because otherwise, we wouldn’t buy and play GW2.
+1
http://www.eveningoflight.nl/subspecie/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/jesusplusone.jpg
@Jekkt is right..we need Akbar to return…akbar was a term used to describe this plight over the gw1 pop…god I hated that monkey necro/assassin rushing over to the quarry..there was no way to stop him..god
hohoho ^^ lol..GW2 community as its best
I leave this gem here..just for added fun
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Is-it-impossible-to-beat-a-necro-now
Quickness on Aura?… For Elementalist? Please go away. Do you not know how useless quickness is on elementalist? Or imbalanced weapon-wise? There is no change with quickness if you cast eruption; it is still takes the same delay to explode. And quickness on overload actually result in a damage loss (ticks are not faster).
Elemental Bastion nerf. I suppose that you are also proposing buffs to the awful other grandmaster traits on Tempest? That’s a very nice way to cut marauder tempest. All this in your quest to nerf the effect on celestial by 10%, you nerf to oblivion builds that are way more interesting.
Invigorating Torrents. Vigor and Regen removed. That’s a nice way to just cut the potential condition clear. It is also a nice way to make Latent Stamina worthless (I don’t expect you to know that the ICD is only on the swapping portion).
Absolutely pathetic changes. You butcher an extremely wide variety of builds in collateral damages, break the current most used tempest builds, and leave tempest to be a flat steaming pile of nothing.
YOU ARE WRONG, quickness goes GREAT with overloading attunements, casting meteor shower, etc.
Exactly. The only thing that wouldn’t benefit a lot from quickness is focus as it’s already a speedy weapon, on the flip side, it makes staff, offhand dagger, warhorn and scepter much stronger when you can pick which ability you want to speed up.
_
Also, Warriors don’t need any buffs, they might actually need nerfs. The issue with Warriors is they cannot survive in a CC heavy meta. Gutting all the CC might leave warriors to reign as power houses.
You may be right, but condi clear is still more important as condi dmg account for 70% of kill across all game mode; I repeat that you can take regen/protection whatever …but leave the single condi clear from aura, outside of that, tempest offers nothing groundbreaking and the elite should be scrapped altogether
tbh i don’t feel like tempest has too much sustain, without minstrel it even feels like as if it’s barely enough. usually tempest is the build i’m the least scared of.. manageable in 1v1 and easy targets in teamfights.
and your facts are not right. it’s 40% reduction only for the ele and diamond skin is useless against everything except necro. i’d rather have a gm trait that gives me something useful against everything instead of only vs necro.
It’s 50% reduction within 600 range units of they run earth for the GM minor trait (10% from that) and frost aura gives another 10% though that is less commonly up.
Diamond skin is also bad because it pushes out things like burn DH and condi scrapper/chrono, which have even less hope against tempest compared to necro, so overall it’s detrimental for this game’s build diversity in my opinion.
The 50% dmg reduction is great on paper but it’s “useless” in reality; you forgot all dmg modifier, vulnerability stacks, boon strip that rain on the ele 24/7.
You leave out builds like this ones:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Herald_-_Power_Shiro
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_Meditrapper
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Chronomancer_-_Power_Shatter
And there are many more build like this, so despite your claims this protection 100% uptime of your does jack squat for ele, unless you have stone heart you get flattened in a couple of seconds by these builds played by decent players (not copy/paste bots)
So YES, @Jekkt was correct in saying that ele sustain is almost null in current PvP as he can be bursted down in a couple of seconds without 100% investment in defense
There is DS claimed to be the “ultimate” defense mechanism trait but at high level doe absolutely nothing
I can see how DS makes ele god like, 2 of them can hold a whole team like some necros claimed …http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/27923458
Also…since when condi chrono/scrapper get played in pvp?…your claims could not be more false
Diamond skin should work the other way around.
Instead 100% immunity at HP over 90%, it should reduce condition duration in proportion with missing health. At 100% health, conditions last 100%, at 50% health, conditions last 50%, 25% duration at 25% health, and so on until no duration at all at 0% health, that is, when downed.
That’s actually a pretty neat idea lol
tempest – too much healing, too much protection (and too strong, perma 50% less dmg is crazy), diamond skin needs a rework. probably the most broken spec atm
marauder – heals too much, adaptive armor is too strong and too easy to maintain.
thief and war – need buffs. war i could see getting there with couple buffs/tweaks. But thief seems to be in a hopeless state, across all game-modes really. It no longer has a purpose whatsoever.
Those are some major points, but i would like a bunch of smaller tweaks that increase build diversity for individual classes.
Ofc you mention only the sustain…not the lack of dmg modifiers on tempest.
Currently sustain is the only thing ele has to win any fight as the profession in its entirety lacks the dmg to bring down anything in a respectable amount of time, without sustain or dmg, the profession would be deleted from the game.
A marauder scepter ele can’t even tickle a burst scrapper, rev and the likes
The ele lacks any kind of active sustain to maintain a viable burst build, no CC chains like engi or the stealth of a mesmer/thief…but “Im sure” you know that already …Stilgar^^
Nerfing the healing on tempest and scrapper…would make the match far too easy for scrapper/engi given the huge amount of CC and dmg will still possess so….your engi would hold too much of an advantage
…As much as I do?
Sure it was overtuned before the RoF nerf but it was still more exciting to play. I’m no longer feeling the tempest auramancer. It is lacking the sass d/d eles flaunted. The bunker build is a complete snoozefest bore.
We used to apply 9+ burn stacks, 6900 burning speed aoe crits on 25 might stacks and to top it off, blinding our opponents every 5 sec.
What’s up with the major downgrade?
I thought expac would get me more firepower???
Instead we get DS even thought it’s been there for the longest time. We just ignored it in the past coz it was pretty lame.
Everybody was expecting more firepower…because we have been forced in a bunker role since launch, but we can’t have more firepower for as long as 90% of our defenses comes from trait, that will lead us always to water+another defensive line, cutting our build diversity which is the worst in the game.
D/D…Tempest..doesn’t matter it’s still a tank forced at mele range, it’s like asking to replace a vegetable soup..with a chicken soup…it’s still a bloody soup
I mean.. you’re playing warrior. What do you actually expect?
If you think class is the determining factor….
XD
Never said that. But playing warrior in the current meta already puts you at a disadvantage before the match even starts.
Well if somebody follow the meta like that gs/axe berseker..well yeah
I feel like the only balanced professions right now are warrior and thief, the other professions got so much stuff out of their elite specializations that they have become over powered.
So you have 2 solutions for the problem;
Buff warrior and thief to the same level of the other professions. Which in my opinion is REALLY, REALLY BAD for the game because you end up with builds that can do everything at the same time, be tanky, do damage, etc… see for example marauder strapper, it has everything, Damage, support and is tanky.
Or nerf everyone down to the warrior and thief level. Witch is way more healty to the game because you dont have superoverpowered classes that can do every thing. For example: Warriors can do a lot of damage, but they are quite squisy. Or they can play more suporty being more tanky but doing way less damage.
But still, warriors and thieves need some help, but is more a question of changes than buffs.
I don’t want to think what would happen to wvw if thieevs and war get buffed while everybody else get nerfed..right now thieves represent alone the 50% of all roamers spec; when thinking about wvw..do think about other game modes also as for example I prefer wvw over pvp
Every saturday you get dozen of these threads xd
Weaker builds is what you get anyway after nerfs start to come, when all builds will be nerfed then what would be considered now a weaker version of auramancer will be perceived instead as balanced.
One thing we know next ele elite spec will be more dmg oriented in a way or another..no chance of getting a 3rd bunker build lol
Ele is not pigeonholed in DS, a weaker support auramancer can be run with more self condi removal, the real problem for ele since launch is the lack of reliable burst/condi build in PvP, very weak dmg mitigation on weapon skills, very long CD on them, all the ele defense comes from traits ( at least at 90% ). Basically ele has been pushed into this sustain mele brawler by design and they don’t seem willingly to change it
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You can think whatever you want about tempest ..it won’t change the reality.
I don’t consider myself the best player…I consider myself a smart player, one that can work around the meta, but as usually you make a lot of assumptions, like assuming that those who constantly complain on the forum know exactly what they’re talking about
What need changing is their build and attitude, when you get a handful of necros who state how easily they beat DS eles, it becomes clear to what the rest of the necros belongs to
DS is a trait that works against mindless gameplay, trigger happy necros firing their condi rotation without a second thought…sad
The condi spam is a gameplay problem in GW2, recognised by devs( Jon Peters before he left), top players( Helseth, ex-Zombify ..a necro mind you)Has it ever occured to you that there are bad eles? Who never dodge? Think about it.
DS is mindless.
Go play a necro and then we will see. Against actually good opponents.
DS may be mindless as concept but…did the necro actually tried to run a different build? one that’s not 100% condi based? what about a build 60% power and 40% condi?
Has it ever occured to you that even ele ha builds that get completely neutralized by others?
And still..eles have adapted..why can’t necros do the same?
A nerf should be warranted where everything has been tried and nothing work, but this is not the case with necro, it’s only a problem with stubborn players determined in running a build that get hardcountered; this may sound arrogant..but surely those players who think a single build should work everywhere are not less arrogant
Glad that you understand the “behind stage” balance
You can think whatever you want about tempest ..it won’t change the reality.
I don’t consider myself the best player…I consider myself a smart player, one that can work around the meta, but as usually you make a lot of assumptions, like assuming that those who constantly complain on the forum know exactly what they’re talking about
What need changing is their build and attitude, when you get a handful of necros who state how easily they beat DS eles, it becomes clear to what the rest of the necros belongs to
DS is a trait that works against mindless gameplay, trigger happy necros firing their condi rotation without a second thought…sad
The condi spam is a gameplay problem in GW2, recognised by devs( Jon Peters before he left), top players( Helseth, ex-Zombify ..a necro mind you)
You already get necros “branching out” in other nerfing directions with : geomancer’s freedom, lucid singularity ( like wow), and more; these are the same necros who ask to nerf DS…..no game will ever be balanced around the low end and I’m glad for it
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Jeeez..this thread still going zzzzzzzzz…just gut DS and let the hotjoiners go, it’ll be fun to see about what they’ll rant next to cover for their own lack of skills in general, I’ll leave this here:
The Dunning–Kruger effectis a cognitive bias in which relatively unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than it really is. Dunning and Kruger attributed this bias to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their own ineptitude and evaluate their own ability accurately
Please read wat you quoted again.
You complain about ‘’braindead condition spam’’ while you defend DS, which takes basically no skill. Do you always defend everything when it comes to ele just for the sake of it even though it’s broken? And I’m gonna say one more time that people are not really asking for nerfs, but a rework. No one can argue with the fact DS is badly designed, passive trait. Why not give ele something active instead? You would have to learn to play?
If I’d have to L2P as you say when I already ground condi necros WITHOUT DS...I would reach a level where I kill necros from distance by simply looking in their direction
The problem with DS is a L2P one, it forces players to think for themselves for once and no waiting for somebody showing them how things works with every build.
As I’ve said nerfing DS won’t help them much…because they will lose regardless, they don’t know how to work around the enemy…they only know how to do the copy/paste rotation on metabattle
All these necros could change their build with a cele amulet, more power, different elite….but no..they all want to run the meta and they will throw a tantrum when that doesn’t work
The fact that you think those defending DS need it to beat necros…show only how little you know about ele……after all you were one of those saying how crap Tempest was where I stated the contrary
I was called a “noob” for thinking that tempest would rock…you and many others instead thought that the spec would not even reach meta status..lol..guess who is the real noob ^^ now
If only to stop with the onslaught of meta condi necros who open 5-10 threads a day asking for nerfs left and right as they can’t beat the meta support auramancer with DS, nerf also the 40% protection trait as some necros complain even over that..just do something that may stop this daily whining…it has really become annoying, like seriously there is a condi necro opening a QQ thread every hour or so…unbelievable
Quickness on Aura?… For Elementalist? Please go away. Do you not know how useless quickness is on elementalist? Or imbalanced weapon-wise? There is no change with quickness if you cast eruption; it is still takes the same delay to explode. And quickness on overload actually result in a damage loss (ticks are not faster).
Elemental Bastion nerf. I suppose that you are also proposing buffs to the awful other grandmaster traits on Tempest? That’s a very nice way to cut marauder tempest. All this in your quest to nerf the effect on celestial by 10%, you nerf to oblivion builds that are way more interesting.
Invigorating Torrents. Vigor and Regen removed. That’s a nice way to just cut the potential condition clear. It is also a nice way to make Latent Stamina worthless (I don’t expect you to know that the ICD is only on the swapping portion).
Absolutely pathetic changes. You butcher an extremely wide variety of builds in collateral damages, break the current most used tempest builds, and leave tempest to be a flat steaming pile of nothing.
You don’t seem to know what hotfixing is… I said nothing about buffing for good reason. The things that are too strong are more of a problem than things that are too weak. I don’t have all day of typing for it to get ignored.
Marauder Tempest is not a thing in PvP and never will be as long as overcharging takes longer than a Meteor Shower. Latent Stamina is weak, I tried it, there is no reason to ever use it. Buff it? Sure, but not as important.
Also, quickness on an elementalist is not useless, proper timing with skills can make a massive difference as all auras have 0 casting time. Oh, and it’s 1 second of quickness when you apply an aura, WHICH MEANS YOUR ALLIES ALSO GET IT.
I think that is a very, very fair trade from perma regeneration and vigor.
I don’t think you truly understand what @Alekt said so let me rephrase it : without invigorating torrent, the tempest specialization loses any kind of condi clear, now you can take away all the vigor and regen that you and the angry mob want, eles were asking for condi clear on tempest..no freaking quickness, nobody except you ask for quickness on ele as it’s less than useless.
“Auras remove 1 condi” : this is a more sensible change than your mindless butchering…the rest I don’t care, it’s not what gives me the victories plus it seems you suggest to nerf other classes also so….
I don’t play ele, so don’t take this opinion as weighty,
But I think starting off with a complete half effectiveness slash to healing on aura and then the outright removal of regen for torrents is a bit much for the first pass.
Yeah, they’re tanky as hell, but should probably start trimming on the upper end instead of reaching into their entrails and pulling out all the heals.
Don’t think Auramancers will be the only class that needs gutting. People freaking out like it’s the only big problem.
You wanna know what I’d do to Reapers? Increase all the Reaper shroud skills recharges to match Death Shroud, remove the Stability from Infusing Terror skill and replace it with Resistance, changed Deathly Chill trait to only damage nearby chilled foes (although the chill doesn’t have to be yours), the elite shout “Chilled to the bone” would have it’s range decreased by 300.
Worried about Elementalists not being tanky anymore? Boom. Now Reapers also gutted. Dragonhunters, Revenants, power gut. Druids get a nasty CC gutting, chronomancers gets tanking traits gutted and F4 replaced with F5, thieves and warriors might actually see some play.
_
The power creep is everywhere guys. I only talked about 4th of the stuff I’d do on the main post.
I can’t really speak to the Mesmer issues, but for Reaper, I feel like swapping Stability to Resistance on Infusing Terror would actually go directly against the Reaper’s design and be a terrible overall nerf to the spec. Maybe rebalance the duration/cooldown ratio if it becomes a problem in the post-nerf meta. Mind you, I’m a Guardian main who’s none too fond of the Reaper’s condition pressure, but the point of Reaper was to give Necros a melee option. Three of the five Reaper’s Shroud skills have extended channels/animations, and there’s no way a Reaper’s going to fight effectively in melee range when they’ve got no Stability, Vigor, blocks, evades, or the other defenses that core Necros have never enjoyed. At best, you could try to chain-CC targets with CttB/Terrify/Executioner’s Scythe and hope they don’t stun break in time to ruin your combo. Stability is a key part of that kit, and while less of it might be acceptable after global nerfs start coming down, removing it entirely could make Reaper unplayable.
As someone who’s dabbled in Scrapper, however, those nerf suggestions seem reasonable. It’s silly that any Marauder build can sustain better than a bunker Guardian can in this meta, but that’s where we’re at right now.
I understand how’d you think it’d hurt Reapers defense and yes, it really does. Reapers will have to take defensive traits in order to keep up.
As sucky as that sounds, that should be the case with ALL classes.
Wanna know what I’d do to Revenants? Revenants gain 2 seconds of super speed at the end of a dodge instead of stability, remove the super speed from Shiro’s Impossible Odds. And nerf X but I don’t want to hunt down the wiki page and go through all the problems.
Now if Revenants don’t want to be CC’ed to death, they got to bring Great Dwarf Stance or bring more defense. That’s how it SHOULD be.
I think you should make your own game, I’m sure people will line up to buy it from day one
Leave DS alone, tone down healing or protection or aura spam or any one of the numerous reasons tempest are currently over the top.
Doesn’t really matter, as is though all of the combined is too much.
Besides that DS is another passive that promotes lazy play, like %hp invuln procs. I’d rather see it be something more interesting personally..
It’s not like I don’t also play ele I mean it’s been in my top 3 favorites since bwe1 (personally I spend a lot of time across all my toons in my 7kish hours).
Yeah nerf healing, aura, protection, dmg……just delete tempest just to be sure lol
Oh and after that, make sure to nerf cantrips, cleansing water, arcana, SoR….basically reduce all ele sustain by 60-70% but leave DS alone..game it’s now balanced……..reading the forum is like watching comedy central, where every average Joe becomes a game designer -_-
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The PvP community is strange, it’s NOT ok for Chrono Bunker to exist, but quite ok for Ele DS bunker to exist. LOL.
The peeps on the forum do not represent the PvP community..they’re just the very vocal minority -_-
Jeeez..this thread still going zzzzzzzzz…just gut DS and let the hotjoiners go, it’ll be fun to see about what they’ll rant next to cover for their own lack of skills in general, I’ll leave this here:
The Dunning–Kruger effectis a cognitive bias in which relatively unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than it really is. Dunning and Kruger attributed this bias to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their own ineptitude and evaluate their own ability accurately
OMFG…It’s LEETO