Guild Wars 2

Puandro.3245:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Not always. There are far more moves to punish ranged attackers than there are to punish melee. And if you only have that higher damage at max range, all an opponent needs to do is to close with you and force you into melee and negate that extra damage. That gives them a reason to deal with you in melee instead of just ignoring you.

What moves punish range players that doesn’t punish melee? You are basically asking for a weapon to do melee dps at range and then having the option to do melee dps with a melee weapon at a push of a button.

Reflect.

Honestly I’d prefer that rangers work backwards. Higher ranged damage. Less melee damage. Make the ranger work at maintaining range. Because as it is right now, the ranger should always be melee for decent damage. And then what differentiates it from a warrior except lower DPS and a pet?

Puandro.3245:

No. Melee weapons should always be higher dps than range weapons as you are in more danger in melee than at range.

Not always. There are far more moves to punish ranged attackers than there are to punish melee. And if you only have that higher damage at max range, all an opponent needs to do is to close with you and force you into melee and negate that extra damage. That gives them a reason to deal with you in melee instead of just ignoring you.

Lue.6538:

If someone asks for 1st place in the chat, make sure you do everything to beat them, they’re just after the title and should not get it for free.

I think I had 14 1st place finishes in the 25 races I did, it really isn’t hard.

Ok. There is being a good competitor and just being a kitten. This, sir, is the second.

To everyone else, just enjoy your race and play how you wish.

Oidmetala.8426:

dont understand why pvp balance should be a problem on pve balance

at same time i rly dont whant that pve limit my pvp experience.
and if we are speak truth, pve is rly not hard to play, its more because fun? Oo

and i think the improves the ranger rly hard need for pvp, whould be also rly good on pve.
the pet nerf was the most big fail, done just because the much kitten qq of other players, bm ranger was never op in a tpvp team.
it was well balanced for the tpvp play.

Current PvP all revolves around Conquest, which involves capturing and holding points. In this meta there is much emphasis put on holding and bunkering the capture points against a small team of, at maximum, 8. And were they to take all 8 to do so they would leave themselves open to all of their nodes being captured.

In WvW, this type of combat is uncommon and only a small part of the larger picture. In PvE (dungeons), this type of combat does not exist.

Also, what you need to bunker against in PvP is other players. That means you only need to deal with how much damage a player can put out. In PvE you need to worry about veterans, champions, and bosses, all of which can out DPS a player. And that’s not counting the AoE spam that is prevalent in both PvE (from bosses, mostly) and WvW (from players).

TL;DR – The fighting styles are so disparate that each has it’s own meta. What is great in PvP is often useless in PvE, and vice-versa. To test this yourself take your good dungeon build into PvP and see what happens. Or take your bunker/trap ranger into a hard dungeon instance. It won’t be pretty. >.<

Oidmetala.8426:

we have same joke atm at necro, much qq have make him totaly op, we see 2 necros in much teams for the win… oh and not see much rangers running around atm…

when i speak with good ranger players about ranger on pvp, nobody sounds rly happy.
i have speak a bit with 2 rly strong rangers on eu…
both sounds not rly happy about whats going on with rangers atm…
the spirit rez seems also rly buged, because it just dont rez much time after summon it when we press the rez fast.
i think the spirits follow you trait is the reason here Oo

If you think the PvP rangers are unhappy, you should hear from the PvE rangers. At least PvP rangers have a place in the meta that isn’t last. PvE rangers are often kicked from dungeon groups or just plain ignored. Very few want rangers in their dungeon groups.

hyjaxxx.1584:

on massively it says the new patch is 7-24-13 and comes with 2 arenas a big pve event and the voting for council member from the two NPC’s fighting for it. and the winner will “change the entire game and living story”

they also said they dont want to mess with too much before the tourney.

Ignoring all class balance for nearly two months when some classes need serious work just to make things easier for a minority of players would be a major disservice to the playerbase. I think we all hope that is not the path they take.

ilr.9675:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Because they really, really, really want it to become an eSport. Which isn’t a bad thing. The bad thing is focusing all balance around it and letting the rest of the playerbase (which outnumber the PvPers) suffer as the game modes are too drastically different.

It’s ALWAYS been this way though. When they weren’t allowed to (b/c of infringement worries) take the name Triforge …. they went with ARENA-net next for a reason. At Launch, GW1 was alllllll about PvP. And people whine about Pay to Win now…. should have SEEN that first year of GW1 then… OMMMMG. You wanted to be competitive and able to counter the gimmicks? NOPE, gotta grind for 1 or 2 months unless you bought the skill packs. …go collect every skill in the game first by grinding gold and maybe by the time you get back from that BerganHotsprings farming-venture, you’ll have learned just enough skills & the right elite to run HammyStorm without getting laughed out of the ring ….meanwhile the P2W’ers were well into their 3rd ranks on HA and already rejecting you from teams.

Not always. Yes, they did focus as such for the first while. After that they finally realized that PvP balance screwed up PvE balance greatly and they started splitting skills between PvE and PvP.

All that really shocks me is they are making the same mistake again. It wasn’t possible last time. I don’t think it’s possible this time either. What makes them think that two highly disparate game modes in GW2 are any more similiar than they were before?

ilr.9675:

The Devs they started with and the ones they kept bringing on… have always been dreaming this impossible dream of making an RPG that’s popular to PvP in. Riot thinks they’ve done the same thing. And Blizzard thought they did the same thing. But sadly ALL OF THESE COMPANIES only succeeded in making Psuedo PvP. Gw1 resulted in BuildWars. Starcraft was really just BigG**Hunters 24/7. And LoL… don’t even get me started on that. It’s like the TF2 hat obsession except with Bots & Skins instead.

The difference with Riot is they don’t even need to bother with the ‘PvE’ stuff. They can balance freely without adversely affecting the wrong game mode as they have only one game mode.

ilr.9675:

None of these studios ever succeeded in making real PvP (in an RPS setting) Mainstream. But that won’t stop them from keeping it their first Priority that they kitten around with for the first year every time until they eventually concede defeat and start bringing the Balancing efforts back towards PvE again the next year (or the year AFTER THAT if you look at Factions—>Nightfall). Who knows though… maybe they’re like Thomas Edison** and 20 years from now they’ll finally pull it off? Hard to say!

There is no problem with them trying. The problem is with them neglecting the larger portion of their playerbase. Those that don’t care about PvP, but are consistantly affected by class balance changes that are completely unnecessary for their game mode, whether it be PvE (dungeon) or WvW.

Xhyros.1340:

Shiren.9532:

Out of curiosity, how exactly are you supposed to DPS with a shortbow?

By flanking. Flank you lazy ranger, FLANK darn you! Also by switching to your alternate set when you can, which involves a sword main hand.

Or with a GS.

Umm … there actually are better rewards for coming in first. A couple more silver, 300 more karma, and a handful more quartz crystal.

Not enough to get me to stop helping others, but the rewards are there.

Xsorus.2507:

I’ll never understand why they focus so much on SPvP in this game, It will never be an esport, and out of the 3 paths currently played (SPvP, WvW, PVE) its the least played ..

Yet they continue to focus on it..

Because they really, really, really want it to become an eSport. Which isn’t a bad thing. The bad thing is focusing all balance around it and letting the rest of the playerbase (which outnumber the PvPers) suffer as the game modes are too drastically different.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I really like Sanctum Sprint, but I hate that it sometimes lags badly, and I suddenly find myself somewhere completely different, and falling off a cliff. There goes that pole position.

Even with my good connection I occasionally get rubberbanded back. I shudder to think of how it plays with 300+ ms lag…

People finish first because they got there first and choose to take the victory. There is not a problem with that nor should we pressure them to change how they play. Yes, it is more beneficial to the community to assist others. But technically it is a race and first place does get better rewards from second through last.

If someone chooses to help you out, that is great. If someone does not, there is nothing wrong with that either. It is not selfish to win. Demanding or looking down on others for winning is a shame and bad for the community.

I, personally, allow others the win, despite often getting to the line first. But that is how I choose to play. I do not try to force others to play that way. You should not either.

Winning is not a right. It is supposed to be worked for. Whether that work is getting there first, getting there after someone else and them passing on the win, or working with everyone to get the win. Whatever the method, it is work. It is not something that is given for zero effort.

I don’t think I am the only one that would be disappointed if they put balance patches on halt for nearly two months. That would be too detrimental to the game balance, especially for those classes already suffering. Doubly so outside of sPvP, you know, where the majority of people actually play.

From what I have seen, that message always occurs if you attempt to open the chest before actually crossing the finish line.

Woljnir.7810:

Now when there’s someone griefing who’s only trying to get first so other people don’t get the achievement, then yes, that’s the problem, but we all know the majority of folks who will complain about this just don’t want to put in the skill or the competition for the achievement. They want it handed to them.

Not true there, Wol. Many of the people I have seen speak on this are those with internet connections that have too much lag for the skills to work properly. People who can’t even use the lightning skill without it rubber-banding them back and killing them. People who, with a proper connection, could probably do just fine.

Please don’t presume that all wanting assistance are unskilled players wanting everything handed to them and we won’t assume you’re a selfish player.

People,

Just as we should not be pressured to not wait at the line, we in turn should not pressure Vinyl or any other to concede their wins. That is their personal choice and they are no less a person for choosing it.

This is the setup for what is coming next. There are already hints as to what that is. Be patient and wait for the story to progress.

Don’t give up hope. An Aussie guildie of mine got first, albeit with the help of two of the “warp” powerups.

Also you may find some random groups that will help you get the achievement.

Sandpit.3467:

SynfulChaot.3169:

I feel that with the ‘Melee > Ranged’ paradigm they have set upon the game, the purpose of the ranger is heavily muddied. How can you be good as specializing in ranged when the game says that you do less damage with ranged? Catch-22, IMHO.

I wonder if this might be at the heart of the problem. ANet thinks that range means safe, so should therefore be ineffective. But they added a number of things to discount that already. So many gap closers (pulls, shadow steps, leaps into melee etc.) and in PvE the mobs seem to all agro on the ranger by design.

That’s my personal theory.

Sandpit.3467:

And no, not balance PvE, every profession can stroll all over the open world PvE, I was referring to PvE dungeons, where rangers are now often not allowed into groups.

Yeah. I think many forget that typically when we’re discusing PvE we’re discussing dungeon PvE. Open-world PvE is a faceroll on pretty much every class.

nirvana.8245:

SynfulChaot.3169:

As someone who personally abdicates their wins, I say that no, there should be no expectation that you do the same.

If someone chooses to abdicate their victory, that is fine. But you should not have that forced on you. You should not give up your victory unless it is your choice. This is still a race after all.

This is true. People need the choice to be an kitten or not be an kitten .

I don’t believe that is true. Choosing to win isn’t being a kitten. It’s wanting to take the win you’ve earned. Demanding for them to give up their win when they don’t want to is being a kitten.

If they want to take their wins and you don’t like it, then leave their game and find another that may help you more. Noone should be under any obligation to throw any games or not to throw any games. Expecting anything else is forcing your will on them. And that’s just not right.

And before you jump on me, I do abdicate my wins personally. I just don’t think I should demand others do as well.

Also many mesmers will help you get to the hard to get ones if you’re having trouble.

Remember, everyone.

Just as we should be allowed to abdicate our victories, so too should they take their victories if they so choose. It’s not a right to get the achievement, after all.

Kexin.5946:

I’ve been wondering about the events, in particular the event of Sanctum Sprint.
As I was participating in these events for the achievement, someone said to us “Plz winner leave no winner x2 leave plz stop winner x2 stupid noob fsxk i need acheivnmtnz” or something along those lines.

Now, seeing someone whine like this just made me want to beat him more, troll him more. But I was wondering what the general consensus was: Should we just people who want to win… win?

And is there some sort of expectation that “winner” should “leave plz no winner x2” nowadays?

As someone who personally abdicates their wins, I say that no, there should be no expectation that you do the same.

If someone chooses to abdicate their victory, that is fine. But you should not have that forced on you. You should not give up your victory unless it is your choice. This is still a race after all.

Gotejjeken.1267:

tldr; expecting others to compromise to your views and chastising them when they do not is bullying, no matter if you think what you are doing is ‘for the good of others’.

That goes both ways, Gote. If I choose to abdicate my victory, I should not be berated for it. If someone chooses to take their victory, they should not be berated for it either.

Technically, the mini-game is competitive and PvP. Technically, we should take our win. But if people instead want to work together then there is nothing wrong with that.

Just as we shouldn’t force you to abdicate your victories, so too should you not force us to act as you want us to. The achievement is only what you make of it. You want to get it entirely of getting first of your own volition? More power to you. Some, however, don’t care about that and just want completion. More power to them as well.

TL;DR: You do your thing and let others do theirs.

Polaritie.4851:

Actually, if you finish having used Light Speed, you don’t get the achievement. I had this happen – used two of em, took first, it said I had second, presumably due to having lost 10 points (two checkpoints)

That wasn’t due to having used Light Speed. That was due to someone else still beating you. Some win then immediately leave so it can be hard to tell, but using Light Speed does not invalidate wins.

Sandpit.3467:

As for the GW1 ranger, the end was a joke with most PvE rangers playing SoS with NO ranger skills on their bar! Expertise was indeed powerful, but was itself the target of heavy nerfs to address that, and don;t forget, ranger skills also had very high energy costs built in from the start as part of the balance to the expertise effect. Then we have spirits, mostly pointless and mostly there for the mobs to use, rangers mostly used them very situationally. Bows too, very poor base damage so the same problems at range persisted. Then there are pets…. nuf said.

Eh. A couple of good nearly ranger only builds in a pet beastmaster, in Burning Arrow/Magebane/Cripshot (same build, different elite), and in Splinter/Barrage builds (Yes it has one ritualist skill, but it’s mostly ranger).

Honestly, though, I often ran spirit spammer builds (both SoS and SoGM) or preferrably touch ranger (that is just too fun!), so I know what you mean.

Sandpit.3467:

Best let GW1 ranger debate to rest though.

Sorry.

Sandpit.3467:

I still maintain the point that ANet thinks that they are fine, and they never really have been. They just have no clue how to balance (or even design) this class and rangers just become a medium armoured warrior.

While I don’t agree that they couldn’t balance it in GW1, I wholeheartedly agree that they cannot seem to in GW2. I feel that with the ‘Melee > Ranged’ paradigm they have set upon the game, the purpose of the ranger is heavily muddied. How can you be good as specializing in ranged when the game says that you do less damage with ranged? Catch-22, IMHO.

And I also agree that the ranger is basically just a medium-armoured warrior with a pet. Look at the common ‘powerful’ builds. They all focus on melee. Not that rangers can’t do melee. That’s not what I’m saying (that’s not for you, Sand, but for other people who will try to jump on that statement). But when pretty much all the meta builds avoid ranged when that is a big feature of the class, there is something seriously wrong.

ilr.9675:

Aight… where WOULD you run them then? Against the wizard who’s super long lasting AOE’s are guaranteed to vaporize them? Crusher who’s guaranteed to aim in their direction eventually? the Wraith Rally where any1 who stops moving in figure 8’s eventually gets 100-hand slapped to death? Or maybe the longer paths where you’re just running 24/7? Why? As distractions that buy 1 extra second after they’re all one-shot?…if you’re running right and dodging enough you don’t even need distractions.

Details are required here… or atleast example playstyles other classes have success with

I, personally, don’t run spirits as I find them to be too weak. But I do know some that have run them and claim success. I want to run spirits, but they are still but shades of their former splendor from GW1.

Healing Spring with Vigorous Renewal, though, I run pretty much everywhere. You need to stay too mobile in the GL fight (and Subject Alpha as well), but everywhere else it is the heal skill to take.

Esplen.3940:

SynfulChaot.3169:

DarksunG.9537:

Actually, yeah. It kinda IS a platformer. it’s part of what makes it good.

ppl complaining about how GW2 is a WoW clone, then other ppl complain it’s to platformer-y. nice.

It’s too everything. Didn’t you know? :P

Haven’t you heard, though? Celestial is the bees knees. It’s the most OP thing since fried water, and everyone must have Celestial.

Oh, except for that one part, why not make it something else. Yeah, that’s exactly what it needs.

heh ^.^

DarksunG.9537:

Actually, yeah. It kinda IS a platformer. it’s part of what makes it good.

ppl complaining about how GW2 is a WoW clone, then other ppl complain it’s to platformer-y. nice.

It’s too everything. Didn’t you know? :P

ilr.9675:

lulz… spirits & spring in Lupi’s Coliseum…
(only with the Mes reflect stacking cheese du jor)

He was asking of support ranger ideas. Not of GL specific fighting. No, I would not run those against GL. That’s just a bad idea.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

For some reason, it seems like A-Net hates direct damage with bows.

And also, I’ve been waiting. They have yet to fix problems that I predicted back when ranger was first unvelied for GW2.

They changed the paradigm so that ranged damage will always do less than melee. For them to have that in a system where the ranger is advertised as an ‘unparalleled archer’ definitely shows some design oversights.

BlueSoda.6297:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Honestly just as there is no problem with choosing to take the win yourself, there is also no problem with standing by and letting others win. The person who gets to the finish line first gets to choose what to do with that victory. Noone else. If they want to pass it to the next competitor to make it, good for them. If they want to take the victory them self, good for them.

To players complaining about winners winning, just leave that match and find another more conducive.

To players complaining about winners not winning, just leave that match and find another more conducive.

Didn’t you just post this exact thing in my thread like 5 min ago? Don’t spam please.

No, I did not. I have rearranged the wording to make it more applicable to this thread and removed the section only applicable to speaking more to those that choose to win. The rest of it is as applicable here as it was there. I’m basically saying ‘to each their own’.

It’s not spamming. It’s posting in both places to say that it’s fine to play as you see fit.

Rage Tiger.4019:

I think I might ask if I can come in first, just once. For the achievement and nothing else. I won’t play the race any differently, so it’s not like I’ll drag my feet just because. I just have to hope the game servers won’t be an issue.

Just ask nicely and don’t press. If they don’t want to throw the race for you, that is their prerogative. That’s not a boon we should expect from everyone.

Support ranger? Use Healing Spring. It helps to run Vigorous Renewal to have your spring grant vigor for a further boost. Spirits can also be run for team boosting, and I hear of many using “Guard” when traited with Nature’s Voice to grant party regen and swiftness.

Many of these skills are better done in melee, so you’d probably want to run at least one melee weapon and stay in melee as much as you can.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Still no follow up…

No. And there will most likely not be. Just wait for the next class balance at the end of the month.

Sandpit.3467:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Sorry. Hate to burst your bubble, but it’s only been in the last year and only in GW2. GW1 rangers have remained highly viable with a large amount of powerful builds. A large number of builds I could provide you were you to ask.

Don’t even go there, I probably had GWAMM on my GW1 ranger before you were born, but that’s not to say that ANet didn’t manage rangers exactly the same as the mess they are dealing out here. In GW1 the main problem was power creep, every thing got better bur ranger stayed the same. The best thing to do with a GW1 ranger was to play non-ranger builds with it. And they never did fix the ‘obstructed’ bug with bow rangers, just like they will never fix the well protested bugs with GW2 rangers.

Played GW1 since beta good sir. Mained a ranger there as well. Please don’t look down on my statements out of a false sense of superiority and I won’t look down on yours out of respect. Capiche?

Ranger stayed the same as it didn’t need boosts to stay competitive. Yes, most of the good builds were hybrid profession builds. But what class was that not true for? GW1 was build around hybrid builds. And rangers primary attribute Expertise was, IMHO, the most OP attribute in the game. Broke many mechanics allowing rangers to do things that no other class could as well.

Now ranger was not the best secondary class. That I’ll admit. But it was definitely a powerful primary class. Not even close to the same boat as the GW2 ranger.

Now paragons on the other hand …

Honestly just as there is no problem with choosing to take the win yourself, there is also no problem with standing by and letting others win. The person who gets to the finish line first gets to choose what to do with that victory. Noone else. If they want to pass it to the next competitor to make it, good for them. If they want to take the victory them self, good for them.

To players complaining about winners winning, just leave that match and find another more conducive.

To players complaining about winners not winning, just leave that match and find another more conducive.

Honestly just as there is no problem with standing by and letting others win, there is also no problem with choosing to take the win yourself. The person who gets to the finish line first gets to choose what to do with that victory. Noone else. If they want to take the victory them self, good for them. If they want to pass it to the next competitor to make it, good for them.

Just because anyone chooses to win when they have earned it does not mean they have earned our ire. That does reek of entitlement and is caustic to the environment. If people all agree to help others, that is good. But noone should be forced to do anything they don’t want to. Technically this is a competition, after all.

To players complaining about winners winning, just leave that match and find another more conducive.

To players complaining about winners not winning, just leave that match and find another more conducive.

OmniPotentes.4817:

SynfulChaot.3169:

It’s sad. I really is. It’s like those gamers don’t have hearts or a thread of empathy for others.

Well sitting behind the PC playing games 24/7 with no real social interaction. What did you expect?

Umm … I do that too …

You can always ask for assistance from other players. I’ve an Aussie in my guild who sometimes has trouble with the movement skills due to incredibad lag. I portalled him, and whoever was around, to several of the harder to get crystals. I’m sure you could find someone to assist you in such a fashion.

Celeras.4980:

They up’d the rewards for winners, so at least they recognize this is a problem.

Yup. About 1-2 silver, 300 karma, and 3 quartz. Not enough to entice me not to help others. They’ll need to try harder. ^.^

LunaticChaos.7138:

LameFox.6349:

Looks to me more like they assign it value based on how others (whether or not they have it) perceive the difficulty you must have gone through to get it. At least, since they say they don’t care how many people have it, but they think it loses some sort of value because it was easy for someone else to get, that seems to be what they’re getting at.

Pretty much this.

Because it is most certainly a matter of pride yes. If something that we should be able to take pride in having gotten is made trivial it loses value to us significantly.

A Completionist might value the shiny number, but an Achiever values the journey it took to get the number. If that journey is trivialized it makes the latter’s experience having been a waste of their time and effort. If a Completionist gets the achievement, good for them, the Achiever wants them to have earned it though.

Some are both. I know I am. And anyone who does not want to take the offered win can choose to pass on it.

LunaticChaos.7138:

SynfulChaot.3169:

I think that such a view is selfish and I will not stop thinking that it is. Your opinion maybe valid to you. That I will admit. But I will not say that I feel it is valid.

Ahh that explains it, only two levels of quotes work.

Congrats. You got it right that time. ^.^

LameFox.6349:

SynfulChaot.3169:

You are attributing how many people have an achievement as giving it value.

Looks to me more like they assign it value based on how others (whether or not they have it) perceive the difficulty you must have gone through to get it. At least, since they say they don’t care how many people have it, but they think it loses some sort of value because it was easy for someone else to get, that seems to be what they’re getting at.

That should not matter. How someone else obtained anything should have no bearing on how you obtained it.

LunaticChaos.7138:

SynfulChaot.3169:

I’m right you’re wrong, be quiet and sit down.

Of course paraphrased quite heavily.

I said nothing of the sort and that is just plain insulting. Lovely little ad hominem attack there. Now that you have proven that you cannot hold a decent conversation with anyone I think we can all learn that any further discussion with you is pointless.

LunaticChaos.7138:

Sounds to me you completely did not read my post. I said:

-The difficulty in attaining the achievement is what matters, the number of people who have it is irrelevant. The points are also completely irrelevant for that matter, which seems to be your measurement of worth.
-I value two achievements that lots of people have far more than Sanctum Sprint, one of which was very possible to get as it was something you did at your own pace with plenty of guides on how to do it with about a month to do it in.
-By trivializing the achievement through forfeiting your right to win, you devalue its worth making it as trivial and unnoteworthy as finishing Urmaug’s Secret in LA, something that is easy and takes 45 second to do. The more people like you who do this devalues it ever faster.

If everybody playing the game now who tries legitimately earned this achievement without anyone taking a dive? Great, perfect, no complaints, it was just as difficult as it was designed to be for everyone and everyone earned it. We all get to wear the title with pride.

No. I understand you just fine. You are attributing how many people have an achievement as giving it value. All the value an achievement inherently has comes from having it. Nothing else. It does not matter how you got it or how many people also have it. If that matters to you, you are attributing that to the achievement. It is not inherent in the achievement itself.

I’m not affecting anyone other than players like you that need less people to have it so you can feel good about yourself. And that is something I cannot feel bad about.

LunaticChaos.7138:

I take value in achievements based on how hard it was to get. If people just give others the achievement then it is easy to get and worthless beyond some pretty numbers to add to a growing pile of pretty numbers. Take the Clocktower from Halloween, lots of people finished that. But I value that one far more than Sanctum Sprint because despite the clocktower having no title, it was hard to get and no matter how many people have it that achievement remains hard to get and brings far more personal pride in having done it. The same holds true with the Distinction in Applied Jumping title, that was a lot of hard work to do and no matter how many people have it that doesn’t change.

I take only the value inherent in the achievement. I don’t care how few or how many have anything. They are not me and their status of possession of it does not affect me in any way whatsoever.

Anyone who needs others to not have something for that object to have value to them I feel sorry for. You are basically saying ‘you need to not have this for it to be important to me’. That is one of the most selfish things I have heard said here.

I will continue to help others as I am an altruist and that is my way.

LunaticChaos.7138:

SynfulChaot.3169:

I think that such a view is selfish and I will not stop thinking that it is. Your opinion maybe valid to you. That I will admit. But I will not say that I feel it is valid.

Then I respond with that your opinion devalues and trivializes the hard work those of us who earn our achievements put into them and is equally as invalid. In addition to promoting the entitlement others feel to just be handed their achievements. Reducing the game to nothing more than a fancy checklist.
If you’re not willing to acknowledge that we who feel this way have a point, whether you agree its more important or not, then why should we acknowledge yours?

I don’t invalidate your achievement. I didn’t make any impact on yours. Unless, of course, you are taking value in your achievement based on the fact that others don’t have it. That ‘value’ I find selfish and abhorrent and I believe has no place in the world.

I’m not handing anything to anyone. Competitors still need to get to the line before the person behind them. And were I not racing, or not racing in their particular game, they would have won.

LunaticChaos.7138:

Though I do ask you try not to devalue the other side’s point. We may be less numerous but our point is no less valid to us than yours is to you.

I think that such a view is selfish and I will not stop thinking that it is. Your opinion maybe valid to you. That I will admit. But I will not say that I feel it is valid.

LunaticChaos.7138:

And I think I’ve acknowledged in both my posts it is your right to take that dive. However if you do so it is your responsibility to realize that there will be people who agree with me and take offense at it even if they don’t say anything.

Yes. People may take offence. I understand that. But I’ll focus instead on those that are grateful for the help. They are more numerous.

LunaticChaos.7138:

As I said, it may not be the intention, but that is what you’re saying by doing so. Whether someone is bothered by it or even would take it as such is also up to their perception. To me, doing that is patronizing and disrespectful to everybody else in the race and in addition to that also to everybody who works hard for that achievement.
Sometimes the worst patronization is unintentional.

I don’t go slow myself, I’ll not try to go absolutely top speed either if I’m outclassing a room. And I’ll cut down on my offensive power use as well. I handicap myself doing so but I don’t give people the win, I’m still treating them as someone who could beat me and thus I’m trying to win.

By that same definition purposefully holding yourself back is no less patronizing.

And I’ve never had a single person mad at me for being ‘patronizing’. I have had many people thank be for being nice and helping them get the achievement. So I’ll keep being nice and friendly. I don’t care if you consider that patronizing. Those I am helping consider it helpful. And that’s all I care about. Helping others. Giving back to the community.

LunaticChaos.7138:

However lets look at the OP here, the entire reason he brought this up is because he was getting harassed for being competitive. If no one had harassed him he probably would not have posted this at all. While he hasn’t argued things properly, the very valid concern he was bringing up remains. That he was playing the game as intended and he was harassed for it by all manner of spitefulness. And people in this own thread are calling him out for being selfish and mean spirited if at the very least indirectly.

People harassing him for taking first is not right. It’s his prerogative as the one to get to the line first to chose to win or pass on the win to help others. He shouldn’t be forced to concede if he doesn’t want to. I don’t think anyone here would say that he should have to. He’s just playing the game as it was originally intended, competition and all. There is nothing wrong with that.

But just as his choice to win is valid, our choice to concede victory is no less valid.

Rajani Isa.6294:

Tommyknocker.6089:

So I haven’t cheated at all, I did however feel cheated by ANet for once again including a PvP matchup within what is once again an otherwise a friendly environment.

Heaven forbid a variety of content.

I’d have more concern for it if it wasn’t for the fact that, not even starting a race, there’s 19 different achievements to get the meta achievement.

Plus you might have noted that many of the events have had PvP mini-games. Halloween had Reaper’s Rumble and Lunatic Inquisition. Wintersday had Snowball Fight. Southsun had Crab Toss. Dragon Bash had Dragon Ball. All but Halloween had achievement points linked to the mini-games.

None cost any money and all added variety and flavour to the game. May not be to your taste, but does that mean that they shouldn’t offer to others?

Coldin.2840:

Feels a little cheaty to me. But races aren’t usually won by such narrow a margin, so it rarely matter.

Probably just wasn’t intended. An easy fix would be to put a fence around that area. It should probably have one anyway considering how many people I’ve seen take a flying leap off the ledge crossing the finish.

Heh. That’s always fun to watch.

“Yay! I woooooooooooh sh***************” *splat*

akamon.2769:

quick question, does the boost respawn? or does it get “eaten up” so only the first person who gets it and uses it first can use it?

It doesn’t despawn in the first place. Everyone gets it when the cross the point.

Hanakin.5269:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Tips for Adnul.

Bring the Sylvari’s Boast. Save your water and bluff skills for when he uses Critique. When he does, use one of each, then take a single drink. Or do them in whatever order you choose. That way you are only ‘forced’ to take one drink.

When he uses critique, we cannot bluff. At least I cannot bluff, so it might be another bug for me. Basically when he uses critique, I can only drink, water or omno. If I happened to just drink water before he uses critique, game over. 3 rds of omno that reduces my Hp by more than 6k is simply not survivable.

Oh! My bad. I meant water and belch. That way he can only force 1 drink.