The worse thing is the dungeon elitism. Groups that require people to have a certain number of achievement points, for example 4k+.. that’s just retarted. And now it’ll be worse.
Do what I do. See those requests and avoid the elitist kittens like the plague. They can’t get groups, after all, if people don’t join them.
When you used my build, did you make sure you had full adrenaline? Flanked the target? Full zerker Pv*E* gear? Avoided using any burst skills, i.e. pet swapping for QZ? Control for boon application, i.e. no might, fury, vuln?
Yes. Yes. Impossible, but both classes were equivalently geared so it’s still a flat comparison. Yes. Self-applied boons that the class itself could apply were used.
Until your test tells me something relevant besides “of these two arbitrary builds I chose for these classes, one may or may not do more burst damage on a low-HP target in an different format other than the one we are currently discussing” then I have nothing to disprove. Literally, nothing to disprove. For all I know what you proved is entirely correct and honestly I don’t give a kitten , because it’s totally irrelevant to a DPS discussion.
Don’t forget that one of the ‘arbitrary builds’ chosen was yours and it was the weakest. And the targets may be low health, but that is irrelevant. Extend how much health they have and the builds that killed them faster before will kill them faster after.
It sounds like you are not the one considering DPS. You only considering D. Damage. I’m considering DPS. Damage Per Second. Which the warrior does apply more of than a ranger.
I’m sorry. You’re not the only one in the entire community that has ‘figured it out’. We, as a community, are not all dumb-kittens. So please stop acting like that is true.
It’s because most people who could shatter the meta (like me) don’t even give a rats kitten about the PvE “meta” to begin with, oh boy, if I skip every kittening encounter in an instance I can get those worthless pixels faster, wooooooo. Or, I can do what Anet wanted, and clear it for FUN, which completely goes against the meta.
The meta is for pure efficiency and speed. Designed for completion of the content in excessively low times. If rangers were really that high DPS, they’d be welcome. I prefer fun, myself.
And it does amuze me how everyone that thinks they can ‘shatter the meta’ just can’t be bothered. Sorry. You’re not the visionary you think you are and the greater community is not as stupid as you think they are.
The current “meta” for CoF is just plain terrible. I’ve run it with a Rabid Engie, a Hybrid BM Bunker ranger in Knight armor and a Longbow Zerker Ranger. Most of those runs don’t take more than 15-20 mins. I don’t have to ping gear or deal with wipes…and I can play whatever class I feel like.
So I can’t run it in 7 minutes. Big whoop de la freakin’ do. It’s a dungeon…those should be runs that take an hour. I don’t mind speedrunning it…but the best meta for that should be the exception not the norm.
The meta is not for enjoyment. Again, the meta is for pure efficiency and speed. I prefer my ranger. I do enough damage on my ranger that I am rarely kicked. Neither my preference nor my feeling of doing enough damage to be useful mean that the class is on par with the others, though.
I gotta’ share the ‘do not use TTK golems’ sentiment.
Their HP is so low it starts to undermine the whole cooldown balancing mechanism. If you need a field test subject, go prod an open world champion thirty times.
Sorry. If you want full PvE field testing you’ll need to provide me with the dosh to gear my charas as such. I’m kinda poor in-game as I have 9 charas and gear them all for stats and appearance. And I’m not going to waste my money just to prove a point to someone that won’t even consider actual testing over pure theorycrafting.
Don’t get me wrong. Theorycrafting is good. As a starting point. After that point you need to actually test your theory instead of insisting it is good. Scientific method, you know. Form hypothesis and predict. That you have all done. But you’re skipping the most important part. The testing. You’re skipping straight to analysis before you gather any empirical data. And that undermines you entire argument.
Also, if you’re worried about cooldown balancing then you’re worried of the wrong thing. When testing I used the heaviest damage skills for each class’s weapons. Auto-attack and Maul for ranger GS. Auto-attack and Dual Strike for warrior dual axes. Auto-attack and HB for warrior GS. All have short enough cooldowns to either be used twice or be ready again as soon as the golem was killed. If you’re talking of cooldown balancing for utilities with long cooldowns then you can’t rely on them always being at the ready, either.
Mists golems are a terrible way to test DPS, except as a way to see how much damage you do with a SINGLE skill. A rifle engie can kill a golem in less than three seconds. Doesn’t mean rifle engies are good DPS.
Pure theorycrafting is a worse way. You show numbers that are not empirically verified. I show numbers that are.
Also, note that the traits that I chose supplied me with a faster time-to-kill tested over multiple times than the build and traits you suggested. And both were slower than either non-pure-DPS warrior build.
Please use logic in your arguments next time instead of trying to invalidate my empirically-proven findings through nothing but personal opinion. If you want to prove me wrong, show me actual proof.
(edited by SynfulChaot.3169)
A dev explains this strangeness here.
Back from testing in the Mists with both ranger and warrior … and the results are not too surprising.
I ran with neither my warrior or my ranger with a full DPS-only build as I wished for the ability to support as well. And if you’re running full DPS then you’re not being the support to you party that you could be. All are in still full zerker gear.
Ranger build A:
0/20/20/0/30 – Sk: V and X – WS: IV and X – BM: V, VII, and XI.
Ranger build B:
Your 30/25/0/25/0 ranger build, except not using Steady Focus. As a ranger we can’t rely on 100% uptime on this as we often need to reposition and dodge. Testing with that trait in a situation where we do have 100% uptime would artificially inflate the numbers.
Warrior A/A build:
30/0/0/20/20 – Str: V, X, and XI – Tactics: II and V – Discipline: VI and IX
Warrior GS build:
30/20/0/20/0 – Str: II, IX, and XI – Tactics: II and V – Arms – V and X
I tested with 10 seperate kills on a heavy target golem and eliminated the greatest outliers (normally the slowest), reducing the count to 8. I then averaged the result. And now to the results:
w/ Ranger build A
Ranger GS + Feline – 6.936 seconds average, 1.45 delta
Ranger GS + Canine – 8.54 seconds average, 1.79 delta
Ranger GS + Drake – 8.651 seconds average, 1.64 delta
Ranger S/D + Feline – 7.219 seconds average, 0.93 delta
- I stopped testing the S/D combo here as if the felines were slower than with the GS, it logically follows that the canines and drakes will be as well.
w/ Ranger build B
Ranger GS + Feline – 7.02 seconds average, 1.24 delta
- Stopped testing the build here as if it’s slower with felines, it logically follows that the canines and drakes will be slower as well.
Warrior A/A – 5.881 seconds average, 1.26 delta
Warrior GS – 6.136 seconds average, 0.95 delta
Conclusion?
Warrior’s DPS is greater, not even counting in the support you would gain if I actually used any banners that that build supports. Also … I did not once use Evicerate. That would have lowered the time-to-kill for the dual axes on warrior.
(edited by SynfulChaot.3169)
Attacking faster but far weaker is not enough. Just FYI.
If the devs thought ranger DPS was bad, they would have buffed it last patch, not nerfed it. You didn’t notice the giant nerfs to pet DPS? Or do they only serve to convince you that Anet is in the business of nerfing a class that is underpowered? Because I’m pretty sure they don’t do that. Because that’d be, you know, stupid.
They nerfed it due to PvP only, where a ranger could bunker down and still do ‘too much damage’ for a bunker build as the damage was coming from the pet instead of the ranger and the other PvP players never thought to kill the pet. That was a PvP nerf that affected all rangers. At the time ranger was about average in PvP due to that one build that was useless outside of PvP as point control is not necessary in PvE and plays a much lesser role in WvW.
So yes, they nerfed a class that is underpowered everywhere else as they were balancing it strictly for another game mode in which it was not severely underpowered.
As for the rest of your response? I’ll do some actual testing in the Mists later instead of useless numbers theorycrafting. Though I can pretty much guarantee it will show rangers well below in damage output.
And birds as your example? They can’t hit opponents in WvW/PvP and die in half a hit in PvE. Bad pet choice.
Your looking for a one button solution. Even thieves have to add two elements stealth plus an attack from behind. Also While your maul can hit for 15k your pet can do another 12k.
While Rnagers may not be view in the most positive light. People do respect a Ranger who is well played. Thieves aren’t respected. Mesner are useful but the disstain for the class is only slightly-less. I want rangers to be strong. I dont want rangers to be like the necro just handed power. When comparing ranger to other classes please consider all factors. Rangers is a Pet class you need to consider the damage aswell as the utility pets bring.
Even including the pet, unless you are speaking of our glass-cannon kitties, our damage output is sub-par. And that posits that the pet can survive (in PvE and WvW) or hit the opponent (in PvP or WvW). That is the biggest problem with the class.
Speaking of GS? I, too, believe it should be buffed a bit. Not a lot. Just a bit. Bring it up to par, at the very least, with the sword. A zweihander should always out-damage a one-hander. Maybe don’t buff it up to it’s beta levels, but at least boost it so it can get in a bit more damage.
We don’t know how it will work. This is simply speculation and discussion around said speculation. Nothing more and nothing less.
It’s been like this since Guild Wars 1. I bought Guild Wars 2 in the hopes that Anet would have enough sense to increase the Ranger’s power and agility, but they ended up doing the opposite for no reason whatsoever. I was used to using a longbow (stormbow) in Guild Wars 1, and I was incredibly disappointed in the direction Anet chose to take with the longbow in GW2. The LB is barely a viable option compared to the SB and GS nowadays. Even Blizzard had enough sense to increase the Hunter’s power when Hunters complained that they were way underpowered compared with other classes, but when Rangers complain that they need a buff, all is ignored. Anet needs to take a step back and analyze the Ranger class as a whole. From our perspective, we lack damage, survivability, our pets just got a nerf for no apparent reason, and we think you hate us with a passion, Anet. Seriously, it’s unbelievable how much damage I lack when I switch from my godly Elementalist to my barely-survivable Ranger.
Barely survivable ranger? We’re one of the most survivable classes. It’s just that our DPS and support capabilities are pretty low.
I’m sorry but this is just plain false. A equivalently specced melee warrior will far out-DPS a melee ranger, pet included, in a straight on fight where all hits land. And if you’re trying to make the point that not all warrior hits will land? Guess what. Neither will ours and definitely neither will our pet’s.
Please do us all a favour and go test out a warrior before you try to tell us that we do more damage than one again. Thanks.
In a straight DPS race, yes, it is virtually identical. Please use the total number over time accounting for skill recharges, not the biggest number you see at any given time. DPS stands for “damage per second”, not “biggest number I can make appear on my screen”.
I understand that ranger players in this game have some sort of martyr complex where they want to convince themselves that it is the class, rather than themselves, that is weak, but the game is actually quite well balanced, rangers included.
Honestly, who do you think is more likely to have examined the game’s class balance in-depth, the game’s own developers or a bunch of casual players who can’t even do math?
Sorry, Guanglai. I won’t mince words. You’re wrong here. Warrior DPS is far greater than ranger DPS. If that were not so than rangers would be much, much higher in the meta.
It’s not that rangers have a martyr complex. It’s that we have played the class and have realized our strengths and weaknesses. We know we are weaker than the others and have worked together as a community to try to find out how to maximize what we can still do.
Please stop assuming that we are all incapable of playing the game right or analyzing the data presented to us. Look at it this way. What is more likely? That we, as an entire community, are all incapable and don’t know what we’re all talking about? Or that you are the one that does not? And by community I mean developers as well. Even the main balance dev agrees, and has agreed for months that the ranger is the most in need of work of all classes.
We’re not all casuals. You are not a god. Rangers are weaker than warriors. Enough said.
Gotta side with this, ranger attacks are all a lot faster than warrior ones, we also have a pet dealing damage…. and we tend to have shorter CDs
Attacking faster but far weaker is not enough. Just FYI.
Hence why I gave examples to mitigate the damages via more achievements. If they want to keep up a leaderboard about this , then yes, it should be fair.
So you want to take points from people who have already earned them and then tell them that to get back to where they were as far as points go, they have to earn them again?
The kitten storm that would follow if such a change was made would be amazing to see.
We’re not saying points should be removed. We’re saying that the points should not be counted towards the rewards, leaving the leaderboards intact. Nothing more or less.
1) Even if the warrior is hitting 3-4k auto-attack swings, he isn’t hitting as many. Greatsword swings are slow (3 per 2.5s) while axe attacks are extremely backloaded. Moreover, he doesn’t have a pet. An exclusively axe or GS warrior deals comparable (in fact, slightly less) damage than a sword ranger, while a warrior using the weapon swap rotation deals very slightly more (about 5-10% more tops). That’s assuming you can Whirlwind against a wall and get the HB channel uninterrupted 100% of the time. Just HB by itself makes almost no difference at all, it’s only about 2-3% extra damage overall at best, if even that.
I’m sorry but this is just plain false. A equivalently specced melee warrior will far out-DPS a melee ranger, pet included, in a straight on fight where all hits land. And if you’re trying to make the point that not all warrior hits will land? Guess what. Neither will ours and definitely neither will our pet’s.
Please do us all a favour and go test out a warrior before you try to tell us that we do more damage than one again. Thanks.
No. With the influx of points that dailies and monthlies bring the reward thresholds would be much higher as to require them, thus making it take longer and requiring many daily/monthly points for the unlocks. Surely this is obvious.
No, I’m afraid it’s not. Taking away dailies from the points does not mean they will lower the amount of points needed to get a skin.
They would need to. I think over 40% of all possible points are from dailies/monthlies only. If they had the same thresholds for both either everything would be really easily obtainable (if dailies counted and low threshold) or they would be completely impossible to get (if dailies didn’t count and high threshold).
Think about it for a second. If dailies count high thresholds will be needed or they risk making the system superfluous. If dailies do not count lower thresholds will be used to allow people to actually get the rewards. Make sense?
“You can take a horse to water, but you can’t make them drink.” And if you try, they might kick you in the face.
Too true. Most that are wanting dailies to count don’t want to drink or don’t want anyone else near their water, figuratively speaking.
You have it backwards.
The points should remain for the leaderboards. That is for the people who feel they need to show off how ‘great’ they are. They should not count for the unlocks unless you want the unlocks purposefully time-gated from new players. And if you think they should, then shame on you for trying to deny skins from others to make yourself feel better.
I think you’re the one who has it backwards. Wanting to stop dailies from giving AP, will actually mean new players take much longer to get to those skin unlocks. Surely this is obvious.
No. With the influx of points that dailies and monthlies bring the reward thresholds would be much higher as to require them, thus making it take longer and requiring many daily/monthly points for the unlocks. Surely this is obvious.
Issue 1 – People who are new will have to wait to get the number of achievement points needed to acquire some stuff. This is ridiculous. New people will at least be getting stuff as they hit each tier rather than waiting from launch until now for any of it.
Of course. But that has no bearing on the conversation at all.
Issue 2 – Dailies/Monthlies already give laurels/silver/karma jug. This is also ridiculous. Everything in the game gives some measure of reward. So by this logic, anything that gave a reward – every dungeon, meta-event, WvW accomplishment, etc. should not count toward achievement points.
Again, this has no bearing on the conversation.
This is quite possibly the lamest elitist attempt to get things for themselves at the expense of others in the history of gaming.
You entirely misunderstand. It is the elitists that are insisting on having dailies and monthlies count as it would keep their rewards unique to them longer. Not having them count would more benefit the casual player and those that don’t feel/haven’t felt the need to do every extra daily category every day.
If you want a chance to compete in the leaderboards and want achievements to matter, not dailies, then I’d be fine with that. But once people start completing ALL of the achievements in the game, by some hardcore dedication to WvW, sPvP, and PvE. That would mean that there’s a cap on the total amount of achievement points therefore the ranks will be determined by “who got there first” once people completed ALL of the achievements in the game.
Also what do you think of:
- Hall of Monuments achievements in GW2 actually giving achievement points?
- The decade long achievements from WvW?
- The Living Story achievements without confirmation of coming back?
We’re talking about the leaderboards here, not the AP rewards. Should those be removed too for the sake of the poor, poor casuals who buy the game 26 years from now? I’m sure they would like to own all of your rewards in little time too and be first place in the leaderboards.
If you really care about someone getting a shiny before you or watching your buddies get less shinies than you at the start, you’re getting frustrated over nothing. Just because you quit for 4 months straight doesn’t mean ArenaNet should hold your hand so you can “catch up.” I’m totally fine with removing daily/monthly AP, Hall of Monument AP, and Living Story AP from the LEADERBOARDS but from being spent in-game for the rewards?
No, just no. One of the things in-game that doesn’t reward RNG and you want to chop everyone down so it’s “fair.” What about the people who lost a couple thousand points? I know some of you high-ranked folk want the LEADERBOARDS to be fair, but deleting points that net you cosmetic reward? Yeah, so game-breaking!
You have it backwards.
The points should remain for the leaderboards. That is for the people who feel they need to show off how ‘great’ they are. They should not count for the unlocks unless you want the unlocks purposefully time-gated from new players. And if you think they should, then shame on you for trying to deny skins from others to make yourself feel better.
From the article ANet is helpfully linking to when you log into the game client:
“Don’t worry – the system is retroactive! Every point that you’ve earned while adventuring across Tyria will count towards exciting rewards”
I think it’s pretty clear from that quote that they are not in fact going to be divorcing points accumulated from completing dailies and monthlies from your effective total, nor should they – the notion that new players need to be able to “catch up” is silly. As they describe it, these are essentially rewards for playing as long/as much as we have – would you suggest that people who just created a character in guild wars 1 should automatically receive 8 years of birthday presents, because the people who’ve had characters around for that long have an unfair advantage over the poor newbies who can never ever catch up?
If you would, well you really shouldn’t, because that’s stupid – the people with high achievement scores have been around longer and play more often than you do, ergo, they get more rewards for the achievement point reward system. And whenever you eventually catch up to where those folks were when the new system rolls out, well then you’ll have whatever they got unlocked at that particular tier as well.
At that point they are rewarding not achievements but how loyal you are. I have no problem with that, but if that is the case then the ‘Achievement Point Rewards’ name is a massive misnomer.
And don’t assume that everyone that is arguing for this system is a new player with few points.
PvP and WvW achievements both need to reward far more than they do. I think we can all agree on that.
A liability to your group after this patch.
Nothing more – nothing less…….
Actually we’re no more a liability than we were before. Our SB range got nerfed a bit, as did our pet DPS. We’re no less survivable than before and we don’t really offer any less to our teams.
What gets me is that everyone that thinks that dailies and monthlies should not be counted gets repeatedly accused of being an elitist. Every. Time.
That’s not it. Not for most of us. We see a potential flaw in the system and we don’t want the system to be about how long we have played but how much we have achieved. It is ‘Achievement Point Rewards’, after all, not ‘See How Long I’ve Played For?’.
The more interesting question is whether A you are willing to have all points you’ve gained from dailies removed from your achievement points, or B you just don’t want players to be able to get achievements this way going forward. If you fall into A then you are a solid person that is thinking about the game or lying. If you are B, then you are an elitist that just wants to put up roadblocks for people that didn’t exist for you.
A – Yes I am. My idea there would remove all of mine as well, which I don’t mind. I already got rewarded for them though laurels, which is why I did them in the first place. Not for some future unknown reward.
B – That’s just kitteny. With gear, I care about my appearance and nothing else. If someone else wants to look the same, then cool! It means they like my style.! ^.^
I don’t feel that anyone else should have any harder time than I did to get stuff. Easier? Sure. Harder? No.
not sure how paying a few laurel or karma or something for the skins that you unlock is being elitist. If you have played long enough to unlock the acheivment points required for these things surely you can handle paying 10-20-30 laurel or 42.5k karma. Do realize that some of these skins are probably unlocked at 5k + achieve points. Im betting some are 10k + to give exreme people some goal. If you have put that much time in game the currencies are peanuts.
The reality is that many people are over 5k achieve points and anet isn’t just going to give free skins. They will want to you put some effort into acquiring them when Tuesday comes. Hopefully you saved some karma, laurels, gold and ecto.
Oh and to address your fears about having to buy the same skin every 5 lvls to 80. Go look in your bank and tell me how many transmutation stones you have….I got 76. YES they will work with these new skins on nooby gear just the same as they work if you have hom gear and want to save the rune when upgrading you can save the hom skin to save you a trip to the HoM.
Requiring laurels would be a kick in the kitten for all of us altaholics. We’re already heavily time-gated for stats. Why time-gate us further for appearances? Ecto is already overused as currency. 50 ecto for an item on top of 40 laurels? Might as well say ’don’t even bother’. And there are already enough other gold sinks for players in the form of legendaries and the ‘pseudo-legendary’ exotics such as the Foefire weapons, and Infinite Light.
Now karma I could get behind. Requires us to play the chara and gives us something to actually spend our karma on. Because right now there isn’t much that’s worth it. Karma armors only give 3 stat sets.
And lastly, if the currencies are peanuts for people at 10k+, why unfairly punish those that are not there with currencies that are a significant investment?
And what other classes think our theme song is: Link
I think it will be unlock like hom but the skins will come with a price tag whether its gold/laurels/or another currency.
How special is a reward when every lvl 2 has it by default?
Does it matter how special you think it is? If everyone wants to run it, they will. If they don’t, they don’t. Using, or not using, gear based on how many other people run it is pretty elitist.
But my point was, why should they do a currency? Since the rewards are account based, why shouldn’t any new character get the rewards? If you earned them you should be able to put them on any character (however old) and make them fancy.
And my point was so that they don’t become starter gear and thus lose all prestige. I’m not suggesting they cost 100 laurels or 100g a piece or anything. Just something so that you can still get noticed for wearing them and not just another clone.
Why shouldn’t they be ‘starter gear’. If they’re skins, they’re skins and should have no level associated with them. One benefit of the ‘free’ nature of the HoM is you can freely transmute it onto your gear as you level instead of constantly being in ugly looking drops until you get to a level where it is worth buying your gear. If that were implemented for the achievements, then I’d have more options when I’m levelling alts. Adding a cost would just be an additional unnecessary money sink. I mean, it’s not like we don’t have enough of those, right? Right?
And if you’re worried of prestige, your worried of the wrong thing. Those that worry of prestige are those that want to act superior over others. And that’s just plain not nice. Be nice. Let others have their toys as well and don’t be mad at them for it. This is GW2, not WoW. We’re better than that.
What gets me is that everyone that thinks that dailies and monthlies should not be counted gets repeatedly accused of being an elitist. Every. Time.
That’s not it. Not for most of us. We see a potential flaw in the system and we don’t want the system to be about how long we have played but how much we have achieved. It is ‘Achievement Point Rewards’, after all, not ‘See How Long I’ve Played For?’.
I still don’t get why this should ever be different. You chose to only play WvW, so you choose to only play a small portion of the game so getting less achievement points then people playing all of the game is a pretty logical thing.
If you look at the long grind and low achievement point payout for WvW and PvP vs PvE and see no problem, then you’re not looking at it. As PvE players, we have many more, and many easier, options for gaining achievement points. The PvP and WvW do need more attention by the designers so as not not punish them unfairly. And at least in PvP they are aware of the issue.
Do as I did, quit this game and go on to another one. Stop bashing your head against the “please ANet do something” door. Sure I peek in on the patches and forms once every 2 months just to see IF anything has been done. Nothing yet. I’ve been waiting since mid Nov. 2012. Guess it’s high time to finally give up on that as well.
Based on this post, I will not miss you at all.
To everyone else, I ask you to have more patience. The class will improve and will get better. We just need to wait a while longer for them to fix it. And with how many broken mechanics we have, I can understand why it’s taking them so long.
As I see it, the class was designed around GW1 combat sensibilities. Those do not translate well into GW2. So we are bad by design. They just need to figure out how to fix their mistake. And I, and some of the rest of you I think, will wait as long as it takes them. My ranger will always remain my main. Always.
If you want pet AoE, use a drake. AoE attacks, decent power, and very tanky to boot. And reef drake’s confusion is pretty sick.
Whell, i am sory to hear that. I detest enginers kits. Grandes are hard to hit with (on really long range, fi not whats the point? Its still medium range then) , the backpack makes it terribly ugly, and i cant even get a decent skin for granade"weapon" since its a kit, not a real equip item, unlike most classes, Engineers are bound to get kittened in that part, and i dont plan to be a part of it. (its seriously a BIG part of the game! Obtaining nnew weapon and armor skins)
As for Ele? Dunno, feels fun, but in the end its more of an jack of trades. Besides, its terribly underpower right now. Not to mention again, its viable builds are not long ranged ones. (atleast as faar as i know)
That is a downside of the engy.
But ele underpowered? Ele is quite powerful and useful, both melee (D/D) and ranged (staff). My current ele setup can swap between the two out of combat without needing a full retrait. Hits hard with both.
This is correct.
Rewards are handed out based on milestones that happen every 500 achievement points. So 500 point milestone is a small reward, 1000 point milestone a large reward, 1500 point milestone is small again, 2000 is large etc.
In the 1000point milestones (so 1000, 2000, 3000 etc) you also get the choice of a skin. Each milestone has a specific list of available skins and you get to pick one. Each milestone also comes with gold, some laurals, a permanent acount bonus (like +1% xp or something) and a chest. Small or Large depending on the milestone. The chest contains all sorts of BLT goodies like boosters, and forge stones, its quite richly filled.
Do you have a source for this information, it’s much more detailed than anything I’ve seen since they announced the feature?
I think that is what we are all hoping it will be.
If you want heaviest ranged damage, I’d say ele or engy. Ele staff and engy grenades are lots of spammable AoE damage. Engy leans more towards conditions with it’s and ele is more pure damage.
There are people who like Ranger melee. And melee is stronger because they can be kited and their uptime on target will need to be offset by higher damage. As it is now melee uptime in pve is too high and ranged damage too low.
I definitely agree. I think they should shake the ranger class up. Make it work backwards. Up the ranged damage and lower the melee. Reward us for maintaining ranged. Not too broken in PvP and WvW as the counter would be to close with us. Not too broken in PvE as we still have the damage linked to our pet and bosses still can hit us like trucks at range.
SB/GS (or LB/GS when the extra range is required) and using canines and/or drakes is quite potent. Felines, if you can keep them alive, are higher damage, but much squishier.
I highly recommend having a range option and a melee option. And you will need to kite a lot. It comes with the name ‘ranger’.
Us rangers are a small group. Many have left our ranks as of late.
As for what we do? Mix ranged and melee combat and micro our pet to keep it alive. You can get some decent damage that way.
I agree they should be careful. Thus far, Guild Wars has been a game that has been very nice to players with lives that can only play casually on week days. It might be a bad thing if they start to go too far in the opposite direction.
It’s generally good for casuals. Pretty unkind to altaholics, though. >.<
Don’t forget the middle achievement point players that just want a good system. ^.^
I don’t see many of those lol.
I guess I am not sympathetic because it is cosmetic gear. It doesn’t do anything better than any other gear. It’s not game breaking for some people not to have all of it. I am just happy that a bunch of points that have been useless up to this point will be used for something now.
Yeah. We’re a rare breed and we get accused of generally kittenery on a regular basis. T.T
The removal of the daily and monthly achievement points is only a quick fix. People might say it solves the problems now, but it doesn’t deal with the ramifications for the future. That’s AP stagnation.
You (the general “you”) are saying already that the dailies contribute a huge portion of people’s AP total. If they really do put a year or two cap on it, the average player will lose the main source, and probably one of their only sources, of their AP in a couple of years. This is ok with the hardcore achievement completionists, but not everyone has the time like them to put into the game.
What’s going to happen to the people that can only log in an hour or so a day? A lot of my guild mates, the ones with tough work schedules, have to do this. They log in, chat up with the guild to see what’s going on, do the daily, some WvW, or some Pvp, then they have to log off to get to bed.
When ArenaNet adds more AP rewards, because you know they will (with higher and higher costs), where are they going to get the AP from? JPs they already finished? Dungeons they have no time to run? Grinding different mobs Korean grinder style? Living Stories achievements they can’t finish because they are in the middle of work?
It won’t punish people now, but any type of cap on the daily, will punish people in the future. The total removal of the daily/monthly will punish people now. The people that don’t have time to grind achievements points will be cut down to almost nothing. The high enders may say that they will be just as affected, but they will still have much higher AP then the other players proportional. Which is what most really only care about.
That will become a problem only if ArenaNet does not add permanent achievements in as they add in higher tiers of unlocks.
This thread is really complex. Low Achievement Point players that don’t want others to have stuff they can’t have and High Achievement Point players that want to keep other players below them have come together to moan and whine together.
I personally don’t care how they go about implementing this. As long as nothing regarding APs has to be bought from the Cash Shop, I’ll be fine with it.
Don’t forget the middle achievement point players that just want a good system. ^.^
This thread is repeating itself over 5 pages, if you just joined it, i suggest you leave if you don’t want to have canned replies spewed back at you :P
It sorta is. I’m getting tired of repeating myself as people don’t bother to read, like, any previous posts…
I can’t really be bothered reading 5 pages of the same argument being said over and over again, so I’ll break it down.
Daily achievements stay. Just because new players have a way to get those achievement points, doesn’t mean hardcore players don’t. If a player is so hardcore at AP grinding, they’ll do the dailies each day too, and thus the gap will stay. Unless said hardcore player stops logging on each day, in which case why do you care if someone you don’t know, on a game you don’t play each day, is working towards a goal you have already achieved?
The progression system should be there for everyone.
Think about it this way; these newer players who, to some people are so scary due to the thought of them getting AP from dailies, will take A LONG TIME to get a large amount of AP for the rewards…unless they do the dungeon/living story achievements as well, etc., in which case…then they are a dedicated player and should be rewarded as such anyway.
I’m having trouble trying to wrap my head around the elitism.
I think it stems back to the idea that if you have something that most people don’t have, you’re cooler, people look at you, people will give you e-attention with pm’s saying “omg that sword is so cool how did you get that???”,
If that’s what you really care about then stop playing online games and start collecting antique art.Here’s the definition of Achievement.
a·chieve·ment [uh-cheev-muhnt] S
noun
1.
something accomplished, especially by superior ability, special effort, great courage, etc.; a great or heroic deed: his remarkable achievements in art.
2.
act of achieving; attainment or accomplishment: the achievement of one’s object.
3.
Heraldry. the full display of the armorial bearings of an individual or corporation.Dailies achievements are achievements that people need to work towards achieving.
That system will not change, it should not change, it is not broken. Get over yourselves.
Your argument would be better without that insult at the end, so I’ll ignore that and pretend you more civil than you act.
Now onto the only potential issue.
Yes, there are the kittens that just want people to not have what they have. Ignore them. The rest of us don’t care if you do or don’t have the same unlocks they get. I, personally, am looking at the rewards in the long term. Here is the only potential problem I see.
If dailies do count, then the ‘Achievement Rewards’ system will devolve into the ‘Daily Achievement Rewards’ system and the other achievements will become inconsequential. Already they constitute nearly/over half of people’s achievement points. As the game progresses they will only constitute more and more of their total achievement points. At that point is it rewarding achievements or diligence to their dailies?
Also, if dailies do count then the reward tiers will extend much higher than if they do not. Meaning a player that has played since launch will have no problem with their dailies unlocking pretty much everything at the start. But a new player will not be able to get the unlocks, even with all of the other achievements done, for potentially many, many months. That would be gated out not because they didn’t achieve enough, but because they haven’t done the daily grind as much as they couldn’t have.
That is the only potential problem I see. I’m fine with it either way. I’m just concerned that including dailies will weaken the principle of the system.
Note: I do have many, many points from dailies so my own suggestion would strongly affect me as well.
Only content that was not tested with rangers in mind has been Aetherblade Retreat and the Southsun dungeon. All other content has been fine. Don’t get me wrong. I’ve done that content on my ranger. Then I switched to an alt on a repeat run and had far less trouble.
And when I do play my ranger, which is most all of the time, my pet rarely dies. My guild actually prefers me on my ranger most all of the time.
Again, it’s not that the ranger is bad. It’s that it’s not good enough to be on par with the other classes. Same effort you give your ranger would give you better results on practically every other class. That’s all.
Do we feel sorry for ourselves? No. Do we acknowledge the issues endemic to the class? Yes. If we don’t then ANet won’t feel it’s a problem and will leave us in this weakened state.
I understand that you do well playing your ranger. I do as well. But do us all a favour and realize that we are not on par with the other classes. We are considered the weakest class in PvE and WvW, and near the bottom in PvP as well. And the more people insist that we are fine, the longer it will take for us to receive the fixes that the class really does need.
Bears are bad because they have nothing good about them.
Tankier? No Drakes for that matter are tankier than Bears, a lot of health does nothing if you have no toughness to back it up.
Bad dps after the patch for pets? Cats were the top dps before the patch and birds just had good burst. Cats lost 50% of the direct damage off Maul but its on a 20 sec CD. Cats still do awesome dps, birds got neutered so they aren’t even good for burst anymore. Its really 3 options, Cats for ST DPS, Drakes for AoE DPS, Canine/Spiders for CC.
LB is still a bad weapon option but thats not the point of this post.
Bears can survive most anything, but their DPS is so low as to make them nonviable for most things. All the survivability means nothing if they can’t contribute, you know?
I, myself, run canines and drakes. Spiders/devourers only when I’m forced to ranged combat only, spiders when they’re not in heavy danger of dying and devourers the rest of the time.
I had no problem with the southsun dungeon. I did’nt have any trouble with aerblader dungeon either.
Okay. Show me a runthough of the Southsun dungeon where your pet wasn’t tripping all the mines. And show me a runthough of Aetherblade Retreat without your pet going down during the boss fights multiple times. Both without you being forced to stow your pet or tell your pet to stand away from everything doing nothing. When I can see that then I’ll believe you.
Cheap tactic like standing in the corner in the southsun dungeon to make it easy for lvl 1 char to exploit the gold drops is why some had trouble. If you would have played as normal you wont have had trouble. Like I said sometimes its the tactic your using not the ranger class.
Don’t assume we’re all bads, Serraph. Don’t assume the rest of us don’t know how to play. It’s very insulting, you know.
While its true that some group specify no ranger or only warriors and Guardians. Group like are playing with the old trinity Idea. Some of the smoothest runs I have had are without those classes. This includes fractals 30+.
Those with the old trinity idea view groups with one or two conans and or thors. The rest are supporting minions. When Thor dies the group dies.
I view groups where each is a Drizzt and Aargon, The white wizard and the like. We are stronger as a whole but still can complete the task should one fall although a bit slower.
I’ve also had incredible dungeon runs with odd class mixes. Without the power classes. Even sub-80. I do insist on at least one necro or thief on a particular TA run but you really do need a good pull on that one, which I do provide if needed. Outside of that, I generally party with whoever and don’t exclude any.
Remember because just that the party survives and completes it does not mean we’re a great class. Just that we’re viable. No class isn’t viable at all in dungeons. But due to so much of our damage coming from our pet we lose the most DPS of any class in dungeons, because no matter what you say you cannot keep your pet alive in dungeons though everything. Just most things.
Rarly will a good ranger have both pets dead. Ranger are on of the few classes that can ralley themselves. I can tell you how many time I had to fight the shaman in factals alone.
Yes. Rangers can. And a good ranger will rarely have both pets dead. Most of us skilled rangers have had many situations where we have been the last ones alive against bosses. I’ve only had those experiences on my ranger main and my guardian alt.
But you also need to remember that just because our pets are alive doesn’t necessarily mean they are doing their job. Live pet at my side at range vs dead pet in melee means nothing. Neither is doing their share of DPS, meaning I, as a ranger, am outputting less damage than my compatriots.
Because I don’t see how some of you are having problems with the simpliest things. It tells me It’s not just the class.
Those that routinly take short cuts need gain some of the skill required to play the class effectivly. In the past ranger have shown videos of why they think the ranger is broken. Most of the those videos just prove how bad some of us play.
You can put it all on the class.
We’re not having trouble with the ‘simplest things’, Serraph. We’re acknowledging that the pet AI is a serious hindrance to our performance in dungeons. It is the class’s biggest hinderance. We can do what we can to mitigate it’s impact, but we can’t mitigate it entirely. And that is what holds us back, not just our skill.
And please, please stop acting like you are the only ranger who knows that they’re doing, Serraph. It only makes you look bad.
Am I the only Ranger who picks pets based on their aesthetic appeal to me? O.o
Nah. I do as well. I just need to not use half of them in dungeons and have to relegate them to RP only. And it is sad. T.T
Lot of other classess use aoe skill. While the ranger continues to use the sb. Yet we wonder why rangers are so lackluster in team fights.
Because we have few AoE ranged skills. SB auto with Piercing Arrows can out-DPS axe’s bouncing auto if done right. Both axe and SB have a ranged cone. And LB has only one AoE, Barrage. We’re lackluster in team fights as we can’t bring as much utility as the other classes, not because we’re doing it all wrong, Serraph.
Maybe i am a masochist
Nah. Well … maybe, but that’s beside the point. You’re just a dedicated ranger like the rest of us. ^.^
while we have our problem to suggest that rangers are unable to do the new content or will be unwelcomed because we are so weak is ridiculous and only hurts the class as a whole.
Our suggestion is to help our fellow rangers become as good as they can be.
To tell them that they will be openly welcomed in dungeons and stuff would be to lie. To tell them that rangers are good in Aetherblade Retreat would be a lie as well as both bosses will kill your pet, multiple times, and regardless of how hard you try to keep it alive. It’s better to tell them ahead of time so they know what kind of community they will need to work with and with strategies to overcome the classes inherent weaknesses.
It’s only hurting the class if your intention is to destroy the class and not to assist the players in getting better and to try to assist ArenaNet in realizing the failings of the class so they can fix it.
I personally didnt find much difference post patch either. I can still do pretty well 1v1 in wvw (the only class that was giving me trouble is pistol thief, cant remember what was the other weapon hes using though; He kept shooting me from afar with me not being able to give significant damage because he kept cloaking)
Did they nerf other classes pretty hard as well? Maybe thats why I couldnt really feel the nerf?
Our nerf was not in survivability but in SB range and pet damage. So if you’re only talking about surviving as well as before, that’s because the ranger was unaffected in that aspect.
Just joined a group advertised on g2lfg as “experienced only”. People died instantly before the beam even came out. I just dropped as soon as I was pulled into the beam. With not enough people alive there is too much pressure on the few remaining players and as soon as the achievement is failed there is no reason to hang around. So much for promoting camaraderie. Putting a timer on this event means I will end up being as selfish as possible to make it in time. If this was your guys intent to kill the community you are succeeding.
The community isn’t telling you to drop party. By doing so you are killing the community, not the others.
A few nights ago I ran AR with a PUG group. I put ‘please be experienced’ in the title of the LFG request. Got 5. A few people had trouble with the first pull and one person dropped right there, one who was quite vocal of being experienced. Got a replacement. Continued in to the first boss. Another few problems and two more of the vocal ‘experienced’ people left. Again, we replaced them. From that point on we had no further trouble at all now that all the ‘experienced’ people left.
I personally note that most that are really vocal about being ‘experienced’ are not and are looking for a carry. It shows in how they play and how they act in the community. They don’t own up to their own mistakes and look to blame others. And leave the instant things are looking down for them. I punish said players that leave early by putting them on my block list. I don’t want to play with players that I can’t trust to stay. I don’t know why anyone else would, either.
I still enjoy the heck out of my ranger. I prefer playing her everywhere but WvW and Aetherblade Retreat.
Ranger for 2,314 hours and climbing.
I love how all these new topics have suddenly started popping up now ever since they announced that achievement points would unlock new content. And they all basically say the same thing. They want to limit the achievement points you get from doing certain things, some even suggest removing points already gained from doing dailies and such to “make it more fair for newer players”. Such BS. Do they really think we’re that stupid? All are thinly veiled attempts for the “leet” players to stay top dog and prevent more people from getting the same shinies they have so they can feel special. You aren’t fooling anyone. If achievement points were really that important to you, you would have made these topics months ago BEFORE they announced you’d get exclusive rewards for it. You all just want to wave your kitten at everyone in town and say “i’m better than you because I have something you don’t!” And I love how all of them try to make some excuse at how it will “balance things out”. It’s fine the way it is now.
Most of the things they are suggesting are ridiculous and would actually prevent a lot of people from getting anything. I spend maybe 6 hours a day playing, most of that time spent in WvW and occasionally do a dungeon with some friends. I don’t have like 10k points like some of the people who are suggesting these asinine changes. I think i’m about 100 shy of 5k. Which is maybe 2 to 3 times more than what a lot of people I’ve seen have in WvW. Anyone can tell you the amount of points you get from doing mostly just PvP related stuff is small. You’re welcome by the way for all the bonuses you get in PvE from crap we capture in WvW.
Not only would your foolish, selfish suggestions screw over PvPers, but screw over newer players as well, even though you claim the changes you want are for the benefit of newer players who missed out on dailies. In conclusion, don’t fix what isn’t broken!
Some selfish players are speaking out just to stay atop the leaderboards, yes. But those are not the only voices. Some of us are speaking strictly of how it would pan out long-term. Just so I don’t need to repost all of that, check out some of my posts in those threads to see what I mean.
Now I realize if the points system works as it is now that PvP and WvW players would be at a disadvantage. ANet would need to revamp those achievements as well as to not unfairly punish those players. And you don’t need to say ’you’re welcome’ for the WvW rewards as if we should be grateful as PvE players. I can tell you that most all of us truly don’t care about those and wouldn’t even truly notice if they permanently disappeared. Well … aside from wondering why our stat numbers are wrong for the millionth time while gearing out a character.
Meh. I was going to post a loooong, bitter comment on how irritated I am by all these, eh… creatures… that suddenly realized, in a day, the achievement system is incredibly flawed and all achievement points related to dailies should be removed to help casual players catch up (???), else the game will be doomed.
I mean, we all know removing rewards from a gamer is the best way to encourage further playing in an MMO.
This isn’t removing anything from anyone. Points would still be tallied as they are now for leaderboards and stuff. They would just not be counted towards the rewards system. Not having rewards given is not the same as having rewards taken if the system hasn’t yet been implemented.
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