Guild Wars 2

Exactly. Much of this divide comes from the difference of rangers in PvE and in PvP/WvW.

The problem is that this same divide exists for warriors, but in reverse. Warriors are gods in PvE, but are pretty weak in PvP. But despite this, they still band together in the forums and their voice is heard clearly.

We need to do the same. Agree that the class is in need of work and how, and present a unified voice, PvP and PvE alike, so ANet can see the class as all of us see it instead of needing to dig through the back and forth arguments that plague the ranger forums.

ExpiredLifetime.1083:

Anyway. I’m not saying that a ranger is without its faults – far from it. I’m instead trying to help put perspective on why some of us believe that the class isn’t as underpowered as people would portray.

Some portray it as beyond broken. It is not. It is still viable in it’s own way. But with the same effort and gear, I can get far more from most of my alts. That is the issue.

I, myself, prefer to still play my ranger. I will not let class imbalance keep me from my favored class. But I tire of seeing endless defenders against any minor complaint to real class balance issues.

jubskie.3152:

@OP
Anyway, this exchange won’t end as you refuse to say that rangers are ok, and I’ll never say that the QQers are right. Let’s just agree to disagree.

In the grand scheme of things, it won’t matter anyway. Nerfs and buffs will come, QQers will cry they are weak and the “defenders” will say that the class is fine.

It’s sad that you think that those that realize the class needs more attention to make it more viable outside of PvP are QQers.

In the grand scheme of things, it does matter. The class is comparatively weak. We don’t live in a vacuum. We operate alongside 8 other classes, most of which are far more viable in all game modes. ‘Defend’ all you want, but you cannot change the fact that we are less viable than most other classes. And know that your ‘defending’ is part of what is holding us back.

Cufufalating.8479:

Theres a sort of irony that this thread is rapidly turning into the back and forth battle the OP was talking about.

It amuzes me as well.

Bran.7425:

The ranger community seems more and more like the most divide on the forums.

That is why I feel that we have been treated as we have by ANet. Because we, unlike the other classes, have such a great divide between us.

jubskie.3152:

Rangers played effectively bring just as much to the table as any other class. Whenever I run in a party, people are surprised that we have so much DPS despite “having a ranger in the party.” It’s prejudice against the class and rangers themselves are the ones spreading it. Heck, rangers call MH axe a piece of crap but it’s an amazing weapon in CoE against the golem boss with the turrets. You can just target the boss and the turrets gets hit by the bounces without having to be targeted.

Rangers can bring a lot to the table if the player is skilled. But regardless of how much we do bring, we still don’t bring as much as most other classes. And I have been kicked out far more as a ranger than as when I play any other class before I can even say a single word.

Before you ask, yes I have played all classes, and all but engies in dungeons (my engy isn’t 80 yet, all my others are).

jubskie.3152:

Fair enough. However, this ties back to balance. We already have something else that attacks with us, if we had the same damage as other classes, they’d be the ones crying for nerfs. This is only a problem if you think that pets are completely useless. Even bosses see a big spike in damage when a SotW powered Rapid Fire + Lightning Breath is used on them.

We do, but too much damage is shifted to the pet IMHO. If you can manage to keep the pet alive it is great damage. But against bosses and champions, especially those that use heavy AoE attacks, that damage cannot be relied upon and we have that much lower DPS during those fights.

Pets are not useless. They are just unreliable when we need them most in dungeons. Not useless. Just unreliable.

jubskie.3152:

You misunderstood what I said. When I said “small portion,” I meant boss battles, not dungeons. Imagine if pets had enough survivability to withstand boss AoE. They’d be near unkillable for everything else. That would totally eliminate the need for pet micro.

The rest of the dungeons, for the most part, are not challenging. The challenge comes from the bosses. And nothing but the bosses tends to spam the AoE that kills the pets. Even as is, my pets don’t die to pretty much anything but AoEs. And AoEs are pretty much an insta-kill. At the very least, some simple AoE avoidance by the pets would do much to remedy the pet issue.

And pet micro would still be needed to properly assign targets and not have our pets aggro everything in sight before the party is ready. Pet swapping and recalling should not be our only recourse to pets seeing AoEs. That puts far more micro-management requirement on a ranger than any other class has. It also forces us to swap pets and start the 20 second pet timer to avoid an AoE and potentially not be able to swap again when we need it to avoid a boss attack or another killer AoE.

jubskie.3152:

Well you sure changed your tune from your OP :P

And yes, rangers are stronger than people think they are. If you were to believe the QQers, pets never hit even a stationary golem, or if they did, they’d be doing 0 damage. That doesn’t mean that ANet should stop improving rangers just because players have a mixed reaction in the forums.

Never changed my tune once. I’ve never thought they are so weak as to be useless. I know they can be useful. Just not as useful as the other classes are at the same effort applied.

I do agree that ANet should do more for us rangers. I know this last patch was more focused on necromancers and warriors. I hope this ranger nerf was in preperation for more (hopefully positive) attention in the next big patch.

And again, the mixed reaction and quick defending of iffy balance choices does give enough of a mixed reaction that it may be hard for them to truly see what us rangers see as problem points for the class.

jubskie.3152:

If you mean the State-of-the-Game people, then yes I will agree with you. But that’s only because rangers have been underrepresented in that podcast. That’s why I’m pretty excited to see Battosai go on there soon.

I also hope to see if any questions get asked and the responses that we might get. I think all of us are, even if we don’t play PvP, wondering what will come of it.

Also, I think one of the biggest problems is those that play mostly, if not solely, PvP don’t see the plight of the PvE ranger as either they are unaware or don’t care. The ranger is far more viable in PvP than elsewhere. And even there you are practically forced into melee with no other recourse. In PvE, most classes have many options. Ranger has few options, and fewer that are even on par with what another class can provide.

Note: Second post due to post length limit. Sry.

jubskie.3152:

RRR and BM Bunker builds have been proven time and again to be viable and effective in sPvP/WvW. Full zerker in high level fractals works as well (which most would say to be harder than the “normal” dungeons). What do you mean by “viable ranger class” exactly?

Yes. That is bunker melee style builds in PvP and WvW, and pure damage in PvE. A pure damage build that is outdone by practically every other class (except maybe necromancer and guardian) going full zerker damage in PvE. Thankfully a ranger has enough endurance regen to survive well, despite going full glass cannon.

jubskie.3152:

While I agree, ranger “ranged” damage is a bit lacking, that is because it is the nature of balance in these kind of games. If you have rangers doing damage on par to melee, then what is the point of going melee at all? They’re at a much greater risk for being in within range of enemies, while the ranged attackers are at no risk at all and they get rewarded the same. Would you consider that balanced or fair?

I’m not saying that ranger ranged damage should be more powerful than their melee damage. I’m saying it should, at the very least, be on par with other classes ranged options. I do more ranged damage as a thief or warrior than as a ranger, even with bows. A ranger should wield the bows more effectively than the other classes as the class has been advertised as ‘unparalleled archers’.

jubskie.3152:

Yes, I want pet AI to be fixed just as much as the next ranger, but you’re acting like they’re completely useless in their current state. Yes they have trouble hitting mobile targets but throw a cripple on their target and suddenly they deal decent damage. Canines have the best kill time on moving targets because they have a built in cripple and knockdown. All it takes is a snare or two but people are just too stubborn and want easy mode pets. Yes, I want pets to dodge red circles too, but keeping them alive is possible most of the time and yes they die immediately to certain things like the laser room in Aetherblade dungeon and certain boss attacks. Should we ask ANet balance their survivability on encounters that happen in such a small portion of the game?

For PvEers, that is not a small portion of the game. For us PvE players, dungeons are a majority of the content, outside of events and guild missions, that we do. And pet survivability there is quite pitiful. This is a case where a split between how pets are treated by environmental sources would help greatly as that dungeon will kill your pet in both fights no matter how hard you try to keep it alive. At least in most dungeons there are things you can do if you know the class.

In boss battles or other places in PvE where AoE is spammed, pets are useless. Thankfully there are only a handful of those places. Everywhere else pets can still be useful if micro-managed as all good PvE rangers know. I personally tend to run dogs and drakes and manually command them as necessary. Dog’s CC and drakes AoE attacks (and the reef drake’s confusion) can be a boon if done right.

And PvE dungeons are no more a ‘small part’ of the game than PvP is. It is the place for dedicated PvEers. So ignoring it is, in essence, ignoring the entirety of the PvE community, something that seems more and more likely as changes keep being implemented with only PvP balance in mind and without a thought to how it is affecting PvE.

jubskie.3152:

Once again you’re saying that ANet only listens to the “defenders.” I’m not shutting down complaints, I actually agree with some of them. It’s the presentation that I don’t agree with. “Pet damage nerf” equates to “pets are now useless.” “Pet leash is now 2000 range” equates to " the F1 (“attack my target”) function is all but useless as you have to be nearly on top of your opponent to be in range." These exaggerations are what I’m against, not the complaints themselves.

And I don’t think that they only listen to the defenders. But do the class a favour and look across the other class forums. See how each time people bring up complaints they are not quickly told that that isn’t an issue as happens here. With how quickly some of us try to defent the class, it does give a feeling that the class is in a stronger place than it actually is.

jubskie.3152:

Lastly, why are you just replying to the last bit of my post?

I replied to only the last bit as that is the part I had the most issue with.

Please don’t let this discussion fall into the trap of ‘ranged’ or ‘melee’ only. No, rangers are not only ranged only. No, rangers are not melee only. We all realize that.

But being that ArenaNet did advertise the class as ‘unparalleled archers’ means that they did intend for ranged combat to be one of it’s selling points. That is kinda irrefutable. And it’s ability to use not only swords but also greatswords proves that it is also intended to melee.

We’re not wanting ranged or melee to be removed from the ranger’s repertoire. We simply want it’s ranged capabilities to be be what was originally advertised. ‘Unparalleled archers’. Nothing more.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

I have not had trouble with the blader dungeon at all. Infact on more than two occaison I had to finish the last to bosses by myself.

We have 3 range weapons not just two. You claim we are weaker now. How so. everything we have lost was made up for in on way or another. The vulnearablity on the lb more than makes up for the bleed. The real reason the long bow was consider inferior is not that the damage was lower its that the arrows were eaier to strafe.

I personally tested the SB against the LB with both zerker and rampager stats last night. Even properly spiking the vuln each time, the LB was slower or at best on par with the SB. Try it yourself.

And yes, we do have 3 ranged weapons. I also tested out the axes. SB kills faster than the axe as well.

We did receive slight buffs to the LB that only brought it closer to the SB in power, not allowing to surpass the SB. The SB got slight buffs to attack power on the utility skills for it, you know, the ones you don’t spam as they are conditional on when you use them. And they were both offset by the SB losing a large range window where it would have still been the superior weapon for the range (as well as losing a potential 300 range for piercing arrows for those of us who do actually skirmish with the SB) and with the pet DPS loss which is noticeable.

I, personally, run whatever is most useful in a dungeon. That has me, sadly, forced into melee far more than I would prefer. I would prefer to stay ranged more, but the current ranger state makes that nonviable if I actually want to contribute well.

jubskie.3152:

People have this preconceived vision of what a ranger should be, and it doesn’t align with ANet’s vision. That’s the main problem. Just look all of the “RANGE”-r threads. Until people can perma-stow their pet or their longbow does 20k rapid fires people will never stop QQing.

Not all of us, or even most of us, are demanding this. We want more viability. People are proposing some things as those are all they can think of to offer. We all simply want a viable ranger class.

Yes, people want ranged ranger. That’s how the class was advertised and honestly there should not be a problem with a class specializing in ranged. Note that I said ‘specializing’ and not ‘does range only’. That is a trap that too many threads fall to. People are not saying ‘ranger must only do ranged damage’. We are saying that ‘ranger should to adequate ranged damage’. Because right now we do not.

Perma-stowing? Some are crying for that, yes. Most of us just want pets to be fixed one way or another, whether it is fixing their AI, granting them AoE detection or partial immunity, or just removing them. They are part of the reason rangers are kneecapped and do need to be remedied, but as a group I think that we just want them fixed and not necessarily removed.

And yes, some will complain regardless. But if we always keep shutting down even the smallest complaints, ANet will take that the ranger community agrees with all the changes and we will never see the love that the ranger class deserves.

The thing is that we are not stronger than we were before. We are still weaker than before the patch. And your post even here saying otherwise are exactly the kind of defending that is hurting the ranger.

Now don’t get me wrong. Yes, the ranger is stronger than some realize and I will defend some aspects of it at times. But that does not mean that it is still not one of if not the weakest class across all game modes. And I still run my ranger through most all PvE content (except the Aetherblade Retreat dungeon; designed to make rangers ragequit) as I am quite attached to the class.

Rangers may have overused the shortbow in the past. And they will continue to ‘overuse’ it. Why? Because even after the longbow patch, the shortbow is the superior weapon. I did some cursory testing in the Mists with rampager and berzerker amulets and short and longbows last night. What did I find? Head on I dealt as much damage with the longbow at max range as I did with the shortbow at any range it could hit. And that was only head on. Once I attacked from the side the shortbow was significantly faster. The way to get us to use options is to make the other options viable on their own accord, not to kneecap the main option to force change.

Many of us are wanting what is good for the class. We’re wanting viability in PvE as we’re tired of being kicked simply for having the gall to play rangers. We’re tired of being asked to change classes in WvW as any other class can contribute greater. And we’re tired of basically being forced into melee as our only viable option as our ranged options are weaker than almost any other classes, despite being the ‘masters of ranged combat’.

Now I’m not saying that we shouldn’t have melee. I’m saying ranged ranger should be viable. And I believe that argument is for another thread anyways.

Many of us can. You sound like one who is trying to help the class. Many don’t, though. We do need to have a clearer voice as a class so ANet can hear what the problems with the class are because it seems like either they are not aware or they cannot hear us through the noise of the people trying to tell us there is nothing wrong.

After this patch I, as many of you fellow rangers did, noticed that once again we have received the short end of the balance stick. This has puzzled me since launch.

Back in January it was said by Jon that he felt that the ranger was the class in the most need of improvement. Six months later and we have received far more nerfing than buffing, despite being at the bottom tier in PvE and WvW and near the bottom in PvP. Last patch we recieved a nerf because we had one viable PvP build that was not bottom tier. And this nerf was across the board in all game modes when it was only ‘needed’ in PvP. Scarily enough, it was that PvP build that was least effected by it.

And that brings me to how the ranger has gotten to this point. After this latest nerf to my fave class I decided to do a bit of forum diving. And what I found was quite alarming.

Rangers. We are to blame for all of this. We are to blame for our weakness.

When I look in any other class-specific forum, warrior for instance, I find a lot of the same sentiment. Most everyone can agree that this latest patch buffed warriors. Yet when I visit their forum I see everyone there agreeing that the warrior is still too weak and many even claiming nerfs. I barely see anyone arguing otherwise.

Now when I look to our ranger forum here I see contention everywhere. Any time I see anyone talking about the real problems with our class, it is rare that someone else doesn’t come by and try to tell them that it is not a problem. By doing this each and every time we are telling ArenaNet that the class is fine as is. And by our excessively low standing in all game modes, I feel confident in saying that it is not.

What can we do about it? How about as a community come to some sort of consensus of how we see the class and where we all see it. Right now we are giving ANet so many mixed messages they cannot see our true complaints through all the defenders. Lets stop those mixed messages and let them see what we see. A wonderful class with lots of potential but few current applications.

The ranger may not be solely designed for range, but current options have all of our ranged options severely lacking. We are kinda forced into melee if we want to be any sort of effective.

We are not saying that the ranger should only be ranged. We are saying that ranged should be viable as an option.

Tentonhammr.7849:

Our campaign through the Sanctum was the day the patch came out. Our group is all officers and high ranking guild members and we actually gave instructions not to grief if we ported people up. I can assure you it wasn’t us. There has been, however, a little bit of frustration with the match-up this week, so perhaps there were some people on the Kaineng side who saw jp griefing as a way to get some revenge. Not my style, but I guess haters are gonna hate.

Unless you’re part of the [Rats] guild, it was not yours.

Tentonhammr.7849:

We’re in the middle of a very tough match-up this week with Tarnished Coast and Fort Aspenwood. TC has been facerolling us for the past 7 days, and if we hadn’t camped the puzzle, a lot of people wouldn’t have been able to do it.

I find this amusing as the biggest group I saw trolling and griefing the puzzle was from Kaineng. They didn’t stop until FA rolled though and killed them all. If you want to know why Kaineng was being killed a lot in Sanctum, that is why.

Thankfully the folks from Fort Aspenwood were kind enough to not kill everyone passing by and helped me to get it, despite being a TCer. My thanks to them.

I would ask what direction they see the ranger class going in as at the moment it seems very directionless.

I will always wait until the ranger receives it’s due. I will never abandon the class, even if it seems it already has been. I will trek through a community that does not want my class around just to show that there are people who will wait as long as it takes. We just all hope that we are not left out to dry too much longer.

We’ve already taken many hits and many have already left our numbers or left the game entirely. Let the rest of us remain to show ANet that we truly do love the class, despite what love we have not been shown in return.

Yours truly,
A dedicated ANet and ranger fan.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

From watching his stream in Southsun, I have to wonder if he really understands anything about Ranger or not. I started wondering this when he said that Sword / Dagger would be good for soloing Lupicus.

I can see S/D for Lupi. S/D is a good weapon combo. But it’s been weakened though the pet nerfs. But ranged is still weaker than it was before. And not everyone wants to run ranger as a melee-only class.

As a big fan of rangers and the fact that I still main one to this day, I must say that this patch was nothing but bad for the class. I still hold out for the day that rangers finally receive their due attention and stop being the black sheep of the classes that no one really wants around. And I will never stop holding out until the day arrives.

Ranger is my main and always will be. That will never change. But I’m quickly losing hope that anyone at ANet besides Robert Hrouda actually understands the class…

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Silver.3284:

@ Arden: And why exactly is the cache PvE content

Because it doesn’t require you to fight other players to gain the achievement. It requires you to jump through a puzzle to reach the end. As stated prior, with Dragon Ball or Crab Roll, you need to defeat other players to gain that achievement.

Specifically, you MUST kill or defeat players to gain the achievement or content required. That makes those examples PvP.

You have no requirement to defeat or fight players in order to gain the cache or achievement. To the point, you can go through the entire puzzle to get to the cache without ever seeing another, and opposing, player. The achievement doesn’t require it.

That makes the cache a PvE content. You, the player, versus the puzzle, the environment.

It’s that clear cut.

Unfortunately as they put this particular cache in WvW, it does make this one a PvP one. That an otherwise entirely PvE event is requiring us to partake in PvP for completion is the overall complaint.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Guys you don’t need the achievement, but if you come for it expect to die. When you step out of carebear land you are asking for what you get. I think it’s already enough that the carebears benefit from people who spend tons of time,effort, and gold in wvw..

You calling all PvErs carebears is quite insulting. PvE players are quite skilled. Please treat us with the same respect we try to treat you.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Sieg.8439:

I’m really not upset with the developers for this decision, it’s more disappointment in the amount of griefing I’ve seen and heard about. I overestimated the community and thought we were better than that. =/

Better than what? PvPing inn a PvP zone?

The way I look at it is I don’t really enjoy the PvE nonsense that much. So this is a way of rewarding PvP players with loot bags.

This opinion, sir, is the epitome of why I dislike WvW. Also the reason that there should not be a cache in WvW. Too many people like this and not enough that actually want a good community.

I ran the puzzle myself. Far more opponents there than normal. Due to this achievement the puzzle is filled with players just looking for easier-than-normal kills as many PvE players don’t do WvW and don’t know the strategies for it.

That’s like picking on the smallest kid in class for fun. And that’s never cool.

Any people telling people to just kitten up and the that achievement isn’t necessary are the exact trolls that are killing you in the puzzle ‘for the lulz’ and using that excuse to try to justify their actions. These are the types of players that are toxic for the community.

Just my two cents.

It’s currently working again for now! Get it done if you can!

Lots of us are in that boat. An extension and a fix are almost essential as a mea culpa here.

It’s bugged, Toggles.

This is a pretty serious issue for many that seek 100% completion. Barring us from completion due to a game bug that is outside of our control is unacceptable. Especially as there has been no official word on the issue.

I will be hoping we hear from ANet on the issue and for an extension to Crab Toss to allow us to actually complete the content that they provided us.

Note: These achievs, Crabgrabber and Crab-Carrying Competitor are the only things keeping me from 100% in this event and I have 100% in all event categories since launch. Please let me keep this streak going…

Edit: Was able to complete it in this most recent window of non-bugginess. Yay! The lack of any official word is still concerning, though. Boo.

More direct question: Has anyone else seen over 14 million damage from falling before?

I don’t know about anyone else, but on rare occasion I try to see what the highest falling damage I can attain is. I’ve seen videos and heard of people taking 1 million and 3 million damage from falling.

What is the highest any of you have seen?

Stark.1350:

I should say it’d also be nice to where when you edit the guild message, it doesn’t completely erase the previous one.

It may delete it, but you can see a history of the last many messages in the history tab of the guild pane.

Website or guild Message of the Day. And pm them once to tell them that that is how they can keep up with what is going on.

rootnode.9546:

They better do some Q and especially ANSWERS on the forum.

I’d prefer letting them spend more time on the game itself instead of on answering and getting hounded by everyone on the forums.

Other than ArenaNet recording it, I believe I saw another individual with recording equipment. Give them time. The Q&A will come online when the editing/transcoding is done.

Many of us do not care for these selfish individuals either. Whenever I see these actions, I always block those people. Anonymity is no reason for acting like a kitten. This is not WoW. This is not LoL. This is GW2, and we like community here.

The concept of gear inspection is great. I think everyone can agree on that.

Unfortunately the problem lies in certain elements of the community. With that feature many will get gated out of groups based purely on their gear. To those that say that will not happen, I ask you to look at every MMO in existence with gear inspection. All of them have this ‘gear check’ mentality now. I do not wish to see this mentality take hold in the GW2 community. We are friendlier than that.

For those complaining that the new dailies take too long, please keep in mind the old daily system. It had only 4 things each day that did not change. And you needed to do all of them. Now we have options. I have found that it now takes me less time each day than it used to to complete my daily.

Emissary Vex.5690:

Wrong. Sometimes all I want to do is farm dungeon tokens, which if anything only does 1/9 or part of 1/9.

This wasn’t possible before so why should it be possible now? Dailies are not designed to be zero extra effort for everyone regardless of how they play. If they were, might as well just automatically give us the rewards for logging in.

Dailies seem to be designed to showcase multiple parts of the game. And you only need to do a few to get the maximum rewards. If one thinks they are tedious now, then I don’t want to know what they thought of them before…

Nokaru.7831:

bluewanders.5297:

You don’t have the right to look at it without their knowledge.

That’s right! If I wanted people to know I’m leeching with full Magic Find, I’d tell them. I don’t want those Elitist Jerks telling me I can’t come with their speedruns because of my playstyle: Gaining more gold at the expense of their time.

The problem is that this won’t be restricted to just avoiding those running MagiFind. If gear check gets implemented without privacy settings (the ability to turn it off or make it friends only), then people will start taking only others with specific stat sets.

I could easily see this as making it impossible to find PUG groups unless you are running one of a couple of stat sets, the rest being instant dismissals if you are running them. This is not the philosophy behind GW2, and this is why people are against it.

And before the tired argument comes up, yes I run full exotics and tend to avoid MagiFind.

Takes a while to get online afterwards. They recorded the main Q&A session. It should be online after they do their editing.

Kitten! Now that will drive me nuts too!

If you are looking for fast without bugging the instance, I’d go with TA.

Unfortunately, there is not.

David.4821:

I hate rangers because most of them use their knockback when they don’t need to.

A good ranger will not use their knockback when they don’t need to.

Hammer guardians also have a knockback and people still party with them plenty. Please don’t blame a class for a few people who misuse a skill.

Which dungeon you run for gear depends on the stats you wish to get on your gear. You can find which stats you can get on which dungeon gear here. Do remember that not all stats are available through dungeon gear.

The other ways of gear acquisition are random drops, crafting it yourself, or the TP.

Squally.4963:

Wow, this thread exploded while I was gone.
I had a ranger in a fotm 30 accuse me of being an “elitist” because I booted them from my group. Our group makeup was already one guard, two thieves, and one ranger when he/she joined. Tried to explain that I booted them because we wanted more variety and preferably another heavy armor class and they were the last to join so in fairness we booted them. Just went on and on about how great rangers are and whatnot, which is all grand. But it was a my buddy’s and mine group so we decided what we wanted and what we didnt’ want.
Why can’t people get that though their heads? It’s not elitism if the person who formed the group says “I want X class in this group”, it’s personal preference. If you don’t like the way I or my group wants to play then go join another one instead of sending a billion tells after I boot you trying to explain how bad I am and how good you are. Oh well, that’s what the report feature is for lol.
Oh and btw, smoothest fotm 30 ever with that group (ended up taking a necro in place of that ranger).

This thread is about charas below level 80 in dungeons, not class makeup in parties. Let’s not get off topic.

It has been outright stated that Legendaries will always be a step above the highest current tier for that item.

Per chara. I’ve confirmed this myself.

Leo G.4501:

SynfulChaot.3169:

When I am speaking of contributing I am speaking of bringing in a chara at or above the suggested level and fully contributing during the entirety of the boss battle.

Like I said, grey. You can make up many excuses why you decided to swap characters during/before an encounter. I still find it cheap but when the cookie crumbles, it crumbles. I’m not going to call you out for your decision, if it was necessary or not. Regardless, you’re still taking advantage of the reward system. I feel it’s cheap but not wholly danging…I simply hope a change eventually occurs that discourages it (maybe creating diminishing returns on xp upon swap and/or transfer diminishing returns on rewards from one char to another for instances).

I think most do this to better contribute to the rest of the run for it to go faster. If they did not feel the need to bring the utility of their other chara, they might otherwise run their lower level chara for the entirety of the dungeon..

I, personally, only do this in AC when the group does not have an elementalist as Frost Bow is just too useful not to bring for the burrows.

Leo G.4501:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Is it still considered an exploit if you switch before the boss and actually contribute to the fight? If so, how is that different that someone leaving at that point and another player jumping in?

This is why the likelyhood of this being changed is small. That’s a grey area and would be determined by intent. Why did you swap for the encounter? If you discovered your team needed specific support or more damage otherwise you face a challenge you may or may not succeed, I’d say the gesture isn’t exploiting but it is non-the-less cheap because I’m positive any encounter is accomplishable with whatever set-up got you to that encounter.

If you’re swapping because you know the boss is easy and you just want the xp on another character so swap and throw in some random attacks to count as contributing, feels like spitting in the face of those that put effort into their entire performance vs those that slack off at the very end.

When I am speaking of contributing I am speaking of bringing in a chara at or above the suggested level and fully contributing during the entirety of the boss battle.

Leo G.4501:

I’d ask what’s wrong with you. It doesn’t take a genius to realize exp rewards aren’t meant to be shared. If they were, dungeons would reward you with jugs of liquid experience. You can’t swap to an alt in the middle of a heart quest and get the bonus xp either, what makes you think this is any different?

Don’t care how afk’able a boss is, that just means the boss needs to be adjusted so it’s NOT afk’able.

Is it still considered an exploit if you switch before the boss and actually contribute to the fight? If so, how is that different that someone leaving at that point and another player jumping in?