I agree with most people here, i used to play Runes of Magic, while the game was cash shop heavy and had its own issues the dungeons there were fun, hard but fun..and had direction in their mechanics..
Guildwars 2 dungeons are just frustrating and quite tedious, i feel its because the classes have no real direction so the dungeons mirror this sadly..
I, personally, find few dungeons frustrating. Most paths of most dungeons are easily completed by a decent PUG. I frequently run dungeon paths with PUGs that I find through GW2LFG, and practically all runs have been successful.
To me it was less of a problem than laying there for 20 plus minutes like we do now.. I’ve all but given up on dungeons now thanks to this “fix”
People didn’t res you before, why would anet expect them to res you after, because many don’t and never will..at least before you could respawn..
If people aren’t even trying to rez you, then you need to find a better team. This is a game designed for team mechanics, not grouped solo play. People need to work more as a team and pay attention to their teammates. Success is not a singular thing. It requires everyone working together. With a good team you’d either not have died, or your teammates would attempt to revive you.
Any change to re-add the ability to WP during combat would make it less desirable to rez party members if they fall. We are supposed to want to rez our allies, not just ignore them and wait for them to return.
first few times i did it pre-patch we didnt rely on the WPs for him , one person in our party did and i ended up being the kiting dummy. like i said , NEVER saw a 1shot ko like this (and yes it was NOT 25 stacks of empower , he only got 1 flipping grub) , this is why im calling it BS at this point , he does not do this normally , and not being able to WP because of a possible bug is just annoying as hell at this point , a better system should have been put in then this , as someone else said , put a timer before WP. end of story
There is still a way to rez party members in battle, provided your party actually sees it as an option (which it totally is). I’ve seen it happen a few times during GL fights. Someone goes down and cannot be rezzed before GL drops them to dead. They can still be rezzed! Please consider this as an option instead of clamoring for the return of combat WP use.
Combat WP use was being used as a crutch in some instances, and ANet wanted to remove that abuse. Remember that they are planning on adding more WP’s to dungeons. The far spacing that currently exists was to minimize the effect of rushing. Now, without rushing being an option, they can add more WPs to dungeons so if the party does still go down, they don’t need to run half the map first.
GL is still beatable by PUG teams with no voice. It happens many times a day. Many people that are responding to you are trying to help, but just cannot believe what you are claiming as none of us have seen this behaviour.
Thanks for the offer, rokcinana & Panda, but you’re on a US server and I’m on EU (Far Shiverpeaks) so I don’t think it can easily be made to work (no cross-zone guesting)
I think it’s going to have to come down to finding a decent guild or playing group one way or another, just hoping to find decent people through a PuG is gonna end up with mismatches, it’s inevitable. I don’t mind server transferring, once I’ve done a bit of research on where to go to.
Unfortunately cross-zone guesting and dungeoning is impossible due to technical limitations. I do recommend you find a good guild or community, but I do not know what those might be on EU servers.
There are two Pit Fighter sets. The one that can be bought on the TP is from late game drops. The OP is looking for the karma set, which has a massively different appearance.
Don’t take current vocal people saying ‘L2P’ as the feelings of the community as a whole. Most of us are far friendlier than that. If I know that someone in the party is new, I will describe the encounters ahead of time. I have run many new players in PUGs through TA, and I can do so (and don’t mind doing so) for many of the dungeons.
I always let Engis in my teams.
Most are bad admittedly, but the good ones are n ice to have.
What I’m afraid of getting is Rangers, 99% of Rangers are bad players, it’s not the class it’s the fact nubs seem to pick Ranger because it’s “easy”, but to be a good Ranger it isn’t easy.
Most Necros ain’t that good either.
Bottom line, if I get an Engi, a Necro and a Ranger I pick the Engi.
At least I get supply drop/turrets that are worth something better than a dead Ranger or a Necro dealing less DPS than my offhand sigil.
This is sad. Rangers can be a great boon to a team if played properly.
One should not discriminate against others purely based on class. Most content is playable by practically any mix of classes. I have run many dungeons and fractals, and not once have I ever not taken someone or kicked someone based on class. And were I in a group that did so, I might leave as well. Actions like that are from people that are not the kind of community that I wish to have.
Healing spring is bad because it requires people to sit in a field that heals for barley any HP. If your fighting
A. Dungeon Trash
B. Dungeon Bosses
YOU WILL NEED TO KITE OR DIE. Its like telling a Water Ele to heal you through Kholer Spin attack, or heal through a graveling scavanger Aoe Knockdown. Just wont happen. So you sit in a field, take massive dps and die, or walk through the field for 1 second, getting like 300hp, and walk out to avoid dying. On paper it sounds great, in reality, its not great.
The heal is at once. The regen and cond removal are pulsed. You may not get everyone with the full regen duration, but you can still do a decent heal if you drop the spring on them, which should be your goal anyways. The base heal is quite high. Almost no points in healing (100) and it heals for over 5k. Also, water field.
as a ranger, i’d love to use more team utilities….. if i had them
Rangers have two great ones. Healing Spring is heal, regen, condition heal, and combo field. They also have Signet of Renewal, which can pull all conditions from all allies to your pet. I always run these in dungeons.
They are working on an improved dungeon finder. In the meantime, I recommend GW2LFG. It is a good site and will help you find groups quickly.
For guilds? Depends on what kind of guild you are looking for and on what server. I might recommend checking in the guilds subforum here. Or if you enjoy RP, you may want to look for guilds at guildwars2roleplayers.
Against a boss, which is one of the few places you should be going down, there will often still be time.
How many bosses have such high health pools or take that much time to allow that?
Also my gripe is against trash mobs, there needs to be a proper fix for this.
Many bosses, Subject Alpha (at least pre-patch) and Giganticus Lupicus for example, had high enough health pools to allow that. And they are often the bosses brought up when discussing the waypoints.
The problem with allowing disconnected players to freely use WPs during combat is if someone dies, they can purposefully quit (or kill the process so GW2 doesn’t detect a quit), reconnect, then use the WP like they could before.
They cannot immediately WP because they have two loading screens to go through. By that time the mobs should be dead.
Against a boss, which is one of the few places you should be going down, there will often still be time.
I’ve run a ranger (Sylvari ranger; my main) in dungeons constantly and with little issue. My thief, however, rarely enters dungeons. Rangers are a bit sturdier, even with glass cannon builds. And with only 5 points in Wilderness Survival your endurance regen is increased by 50%.
Thieves may deal more damage, but are far squishier and you don’t have much leeway for mistakes. A ranger can normally overcome a mistake or three. Thieves often go down on the first mistake.
It is a pain getting back into a fight after a disconnect, yes. That is an unfortunate side effect.
Which should be fixed properly, not the ham-fisted “fixes” we’ve seen before.
I don’t pug, so the rest of your post does not apply to me personally.
The problem with allowing disconnected players to freely use WPs during combat is if someone dies, they can purposefully quit (or kill the process so GW2 doesn’t detect a quit), reconnect, then use the WP like they could before. Like I said, unfortunate side effect.
Dungeons can still be quite enjoyable. Just find groups that want to fight the normal way. Not everyone likes the exploits. I have found many that just want to fight things the normal way.
I leave dungeon groups if someone has that weapon, it makes the single most annoying noise, and I refuse to mute SFX simply because of it. (That and most legendary wielders are pompous kitten that think their glorified farming skills should command respect. On that note… I’m going for The Flameseeker Prophecies
I hope you will still group with me once I get it. I can tell you I am not a pompous kitten. I am a friendly plant. ^.^
The only difference is the inability to use waypoints when party members are in combat, a change which I wholeheartedly welcome.
If this would only apply to bosses, I’d agree.
Now I can’t even WP after a disconnect while my party’s fighting trash. This sucks kitten balls and should be changed.
It is a pain getting back into a fight after a disconnect, yes. That is an unfortunate side effect. But without disabling the WPs during combat you had players just rushing content and not bothering to try to rez dead (and even sometimes downed) players. Since this patch, I have seen a noticeable uptick in other players rezzing downed and dead players. That is a good thing.
It has nothing to do about elitism that people require members to be level 80. It’s the fact that you’re missing so many stat points and traits that make you weaker if you’re below level 80. There’s also the issue that people tend to slack on equipping appropriate leveled gear when they level. Skill doesn’t matter when underleveled people are dying constantly.
EVERY group that I’m in where there’s more than one person under 70 has failed. Doing AC is very difficult now because groups keep failing over and over on the mounds and I find myself doing most of the damage.
Aside from having a decent level, people need to research how to do a dungeon. I did that for every new dungeon I was about to do so there’s no reason others can’t. It’ll save everyone time in the future.
Requiring an 80 when the suggested is only 35 does carry some elitist connotations. Yes, 80s are faster. But decent 35s can still do quite well. No, they will not do for speed runs. So long as you don’t mind an additional few minutes, though, it is quite doable. Even with low level inexperienced players, I’ve not failed or taken long periods of time in AC in a long time.
I, personally, make sure there is an ele in the party in AC for the mounds. If noone else runs one, I switch to my ele just for Ice Bow.
like i said , didnt see him THIS bad prior to this patch , ive done him a couple of times. NEVER saw anything that killed me past downed state in 1 hit , got downed when his charge managed to hit me BEFORE the change , but never full blown 1 shot , no Death Penalty either so….=\
I have successfully fought him several times (with PUGs) since the patch and have found no real difference in difficulty vs before.
The only difference is the inability to use waypoints when party members are in combat, a change which I wholeheartedly welcome.
All dungeons are still very doable with the current system. Nothing is designed for the trinity system. I have successfully cleared all dungeon paths save Arah 4, most of them (at least once, anyways) with PUGs and no voice chat. This includes fighting GL both before and after the January patch.
Before the patch, I fought him with my main (ranger). After, I fought him with both an ele and a guardian. Not once was I one-shot by him. And never did I go from having health to being dead (unless I was already at red DP, of course).
We are trying to help, but none of us that have successfully done Arah have seen what you are claiming.
There is a reason why the current meta dungeon build is 4 heavies and a mesmer.
Hint: it’s not that necros are better.
That is because mesmers have time warp. It is just to speed up the warriors damage. Yes, mesmers have good utility, but that does not mean that necros (or any other class for that matter) are not still highly useful.
Believe me, if it was easy to get, you wouldn’t want it. It’s only because it’ll take you 4 months of saving to afford that you’ll find it awesome to make your legendary.
I disagree. It does not matter how easy/hard it is to obtain. I am legendary hunting because the skin is shiny. If it looked the same (even without the particle effects) and was a starting weapon, I’d still use it.
Not everyone who hunts a legendary is looking for that exclusiveness. Some of us just like the skin.
I’ve not yet gotten my mes to 80 yet (neither is my main), so I am not entirely sure. I highly enjoy playing both classes. I think the necro is probably more difficult to play right and the necro can dish out high damage if traited and geared for it (definitely higher than a mesmer).
The challenge with mesmers is managing the clones/phantasms and knowing when and where to shatter. With necromancers you need to keep track of your life force know when to pop in and out of it for maximum effect.
As for enjoyment? I enjoy both pretty equally. Mesmer’s attacks do look prettier, though. ^.^
I find GL to be quite difficult, if not the most difficult creature in the game. The mechanics are supposed to be this hard. This encounter is supposed to require high amounts of skill.
Yes, this makes Arah too hard for some people. But with decent skill and a good group, you should still be able to complete it.
I don’t believe they should nerf GL as once you do learn the mechanics and have a good group, you should be able to complete it without too much issue. I also don’t think they should bring back res-rushing as it breaks the intended battle mechanics and forces some people who do know the encounters to die just to allow the others to use the unintended zerging mechanic that was being pushed in some instances.
rangers right now aren’t a good class in pve, they need several mechanics buffed, so they are actually able to compete with the other classes in dungeons(ranger is lacking support with the only support coming from the spirit of stone and the water combo field; ranger is lacking dps or needs to go full condition which has the problem, that the conditions still need to tick off, while other skills do the damage instantly; ranger can go melee, but bugged skill 1 on 1hsword also sucks)
so all in all i’d say, just don’t play a ranger in addition to the stuff posted above
I strongly disagree here. Rangers are one of the strongest classes in general PvE. In dungeons they are a bit weaker, but a good ranger is still a very good boon in dungeons. High maneuverability and good condition stacking with a pet that can be useful in most instances.
As for utility, they have Healing Spring which is a heal, regen, condition removal, and a water field. There is also Signet of Renewal which can remove all conditions from all party members.
Many complain of Pet AI, and I do as well, but that does not mean the pet is entirely useless in dungeons. You do need to set the pet to passive and manually tell it what to attack and you will still find the pet useless in some instances such as boss fights. But the pet is far from useless.
Rangers are a strong class. Maybe not as strong as warrior (but what is), but still a strong class.
They died, their fault. I died ressing them, my fault for ressing that person. If person didn’t die, I wouldnt have to res. Could I have helped him from dying, depends on circumstances. Everyone’s lives on gw2 is their own responsibility, its why we all have our own heal skills.
I don’t believe that is true. Yes, if they died it is their fault. But if you get focused hard enough you can run out of endurance and OS (Oh kitten) buttons to allow you to survive. Sometimes you can get downed no matter how good you are. It happens. But saying that everyone’s lives are entirely their own responsibility is false.
Dungeons are designed for teams. If you want your team to survive and do well, everyone should care about how everyone is doing. Anything less, especially against GL, and you will have much more trouble.
Mesmers are considered more powerful, but don’t look down on a necro either. Necromancers can take more damage and are quite versatile if done right. They are a bit harder to play, though.
Take it at your own pace and keep working towards it. You never know when they will institute a better method for the precursors (which should finally lower the insanely high prices). Don’t let the controlled economy stop you from what you want. Enjoy the game and go for your goals!
Warrior, guardian, or necromancer (Yes, necros can tank). Warriors have the highest damage output (of these three, anyways), guardians are the most tanky (but unfortunately pretty low DPS), and necromancers are quite versatile (if the most complicated to learn).
The AoE earth rings will not one shot, nor will single Dragon Teeth or the earth line attack. At least they don’t on a glass ranger.
Subject Alpha is all about knowing what to dodge and what to walk out of. Many of the moves can simply be strafed out of. And when they are stacked heavily enough (my guild calls it the venn diagrams of death), you need to dodge at the right time to dodge through the damage.
I honestly don’t think you need to run any specific gear for the fight. You just need to learn the mechanics and dodge.
All the best groups I have ever run with have had everyone run with at least one party supporting skill. And all classes have these skills, although some have less than others (such as Rangers).
One should never think of just ‘what can I do’. In a group setting such as dungeons, one should always think ‘what can we do’. Anything less and the entire team is less effective than it could be.
I believe most of the people that switch charas are people working on their alts. And many do this so they contribute more with their 80s or because groups are exclusionary of anything but 80s, which is a problem in and of itself.
Once you start working on your second/third/fourth alt, grinding through the same old maps just loses it’s appeal. And dungeon experience is a good way of levelling.
As for whether it is an exploit or not? I do not see why it is an exploit any more than picking up someone at the last minute for a boss. Someone comes in for little effort and reaps full rewards. The difference is that when we switch, at least as a player we put in full effort.
Also. please note that many people that do this bring alts that are still in the recommended level range for the dungeon. IE, they can still contribute to the final boss fight.
One needs to think of the best way they can contribute to the group. That is a problem that many have. They do not consider what would benefit the group, but only what would benefit them directly.
All we can do is try to help these players become better.
the issue is , we still have some bosses in dungeons (lupi) that are full 1 shot spams (as in do not get downed and go straight to dead)
I’ve run Arah on my glass-cannon build ranger several times. Lupi’s single attack never one-shot me. Not once. You may want to check your health throughout, as you can run into trouble if you are not at full health when you do get hit.
Please don’t scare people away from this class. There are already few enough rangers out there. I don’t like being one of the few that play and enjoy the ranger as their main.
That being said, don’t act like a bot and you should be fine. I run both a bear and use a shortbow, so that in and of itself is not the source.
My earlier post was 2 separate points – I thought I’d made that clear but oh well. A lot of people use the idea of ‘some challenge’ as code for ‘superhardcore’. My point about that wasn’t related to the the waypoint change. I think my earlier post makes it clear that I don’t view the waypoint change as a bad thing.
I use ‘some challenge’ to mean ‘some challenge’. I do not believe any standard explorable mode paths should be for the ‘superhardcore’ only. Or even ‘hardcore’ only. There are more than just ‘hardcore’ and ‘casual’. I don’t believe most players identify with one or the other. The dungeons should be tailored towards being challenging for most. Not challenging for a few and nigh-impossible for the rest.
I just wish they would bring back the ability to zoom in on others while you are dead like in gw1. The only thing I hate about this change is having to look at my char lying on the ground. Just like every other game that forces you to look at your dead body/ghost for a set amount of time.
I second this sooooo hard! I miss being able to at least see what others are doing when I am out of the fight anyways. Gives me something to do, and you can learn from it as well. At the very least, not moving the camera back to your corpse after a few seconds of not moving the camera would be nice. We know we are dead! Stop reminding us!!
If the complaint is people doing it at all, then I have to disagree. The player is still putting in the effort of getting to that point. And if their team is all right with it, then no harm done. Right?
When you put aside the ninja mooching,
what you’re left with is a pretty standard powerlevelling discussion. You know; Yadda yadda ‘Pointless Grind’ yadda yadda ‘Level 80 Noobs’ yadda yadda link to Extra Credits video which is somehow perfectly relevant. One of those friggin’ things.
I kind of think the Leeching aspect of this is genuinely bad enough that it deserves it’s own serious thread. So can we sort of ignore the Powerlevelling part of it, or at least get it in another thread?
/edit: Niceness pass.
What can I say? Mooching kittens rustle my jimmies.
True. There are two things being discussed here.
Some may not like the power leveling that others do, but it is in no way harmful to others in and of itself. And when you are working on your 3rd+ chara (I’m nearly onto my 6th), any boost is nice.
The other, and greater issue, is the leeching. From what I have read here, I don’t think anyone approves of others doing this without approval. Noone cares for the leechers. So does the leeching still need to get discussed if everyone is already in agreement on it?
I frequently run AC sub-level 80. AC and TA, once you know the encounters, are pretty easy for a chara to run at-level.
I am also firmly against the ‘you must be 80’ attitude. I find it to be elitist and shunning of potentially perfectly good players. If you want your speed-runs to be 80 only, that is find. But saying that all players need be 80 for dungeons is false.
The expectation that all content should be easily playable by all players is a bit unreasonable. There do need to be some challenges. And those players that do play the more difficult challenges (like if a Hard Mode was added) should be adequately rewarded for their efforts.
Why is it unreasonable? We’ve all paid for the game. Challenge isn’t the same thing as content gating.
That said, I don’t think the WP change is necessarily bad. It needs to be finetuned naturally, but that’s not a surprise to anyone. Nothing is perfect on the first try.
Note that I said “easily playable”. I do feel that all current content can be played by non-hardcore players. That is not to say that all the content is easy (despite the arguments to the contrary by some of the hardcore and elitists). Some of it does require teamwork and skill. Whether or not players will put forth the effort to complete this content is up to them.
As for gating, only Agony mechanics are gating. WP disabling is not gating. It is removing the ability to rush content with sheer numbers that was not intended. The removal only improves it, IMHO. It forces people to actually learn tactics instead of having their party force them to die ‘because it makes it easier’.
If the complaint is people doing it without the approval of their teammates then yes, exploitative of your team.
If the complaint is people doing it at all, then I have to disagree. The player is still putting in the effort of getting to that point. And if their team is all right with it, then no harm done. Right?
The expectation that all content should be easily playable by all players is a bit unreasonable. There do need to be some challenges. And those players that do play the more difficult challenges (like if a Hard Mode was added) should be adequately rewarded for their efforts.
Just as not all hardcore players can expect to get everything they desire, not all true casuals can either.
