Guild Wars 2

If it was based on season win ratio – I would not now be in Diamond.

I had a horrid start in amber – lost many matches.
Emerald T2 – for some reason was a kitten fest (lost about 80 matches in a row !!!).
Lost a few more at Sapphire T4 → T5.
Got into Ruby : T1→T3 back to T1 then up crept to T5 then hit diamond with large win streaks.

My win ratio in ruby or diamond (if you just look at my ruby/diamond matches) – is much higher than emerald/Sapphire or amber.

I dont think you can look into win ratio right now.

Just solo Q INto diamond – the last match was hell:
2 war, 2 thief, 1 nec. (Our team) on forest vs
2 nec, Ele, eng, guard

We won 500v499- after throwing every rule out of the book stealing every animal (bar 1)- our team couldn’t hold points due to team make up. Matches like this with good comps vs stupid comps should not be happening – but they do and people refuse to reroll. We would have won easily if people were on a different class make up.
This bring back the point of class stacking should be banned by the matchmaking and enforce tourney rules of max 1/clAss.

We would have more balanced match ups and be able to calculate MMR better at an account and profession level.

So for equivalency :
A set of ascended armour via raids: 1300 shards, 47.5 gold- time sink: 13 weeks (based on 100 shards/week max : excluding minis)
OR
700 gold (get instantly via crafting).

Most groups in my experience will take 3-4 hrs or so and can shard cap (by failing a few times) if they are successful also [most people will do some training runs for others]. Gold generated (Spirit Vale): 4 gold.[For a single clear].
So the direct gold/hr = 1 g/ hr (nice and low right?). This excludes current food costs – which often negates most of the profit as people afk, etc – as organising 10 man content is well a nightmare. Does that mean the 1300 shards is worth: 700-45: 655 gold?

Probably not..
655g/(13 weeks x 4) = 12.5gold/hr if the cost of ascended armour does not move.
The cost of ascended armour will lower over time. If we use the ghostly infusion (~500g/1000 shards): still works out to 12.5g/hr – a mat conversion via the TP. This price is steadily falling too.

I expect the raid gold/hr to keep falling significantly if the material costs of ascended items falls : we know it will as they don’t like prices this high for the ascended armour.

Doesn’t really seem worth raiding does it now unless you want some of those more exclusive skins – which have to be bought with shards if you get bad RNG.

Silver wastes generates materials / drops – which gives about 10-15g/hr. Especially more if you can bounce breach events in a row or get a good chest farm going. Remember to open the bags on a lower level alt for maximised profits- it’s still mat conversion to TP to gold. It’s not direct liquid gold.

Material farming/harvesting which is not liquid gold generation can easily net you 15g/hr once you sell the mats back on the trading post. This is really handy for those watch work sprocket mining picks.

Dungeons currently offer about 4-8ghr in liquid gold (less up front costs than raiding) if you can get a good group. This takes some time to organise and requires skill. Most groups are failing badly or not forming as the gold/hr generated (even though it is liquid) requires skill and is one of the lowest gold/hr items in the game.

It’s funny how all things seem to balance the gold/hr generated in PVE mostly – yet material farming right now or SW still generates the most liquid gold for a player (after mat conversion) via the TP.

Account gold find :
The increased account gold find % has very little effect even if it as ramped up to 1000.
This is as it is based on emenies killed- only where they do actually drop loot and gold.
Often the amount returned is in the coppers- and only applies pre HoT zones.
The HoT mobs do not drop gold so this buff is only of use in the core game.
More often than not a mob will not drop gold so it’s not even triggered in the core game.
I looked at this as my account is old and it makes naff all difference once I understood how it worked. I saw amounts of 2-3 coppers being dropped from a mob (and rarely)- so it has virtually no effect even in a large zone like Cursed Shore farming.

Other reasons why may prices have risen:
Decreased salvage rates – published long time ago. Makes salvaging more expensive and costs go up (less leather, wood, ore, cloth) from items dropped as each salvage has a cost associated with it. Less supply from event/mob farming.

Other items:
Some items cannot be purchased directly with gold – eg Raid rewards. So a black market wil exist where people will sell runs to gain gold (personal profit) in the hope that the buyer will receive a unique weapon or tokens allowing em to purchase a unique weapon in the future. This is currently a very expensive route (300g/wing- max 200g profit for the sellers each)- and is likely to get cheaper over time.
This is a transference of gold to individuals – the gold had to come from somewhere in the first place. The fall back currency is the Margonite which is limited to 100 shards/week.

Crycerasobs.7864:

i’m not an econ expert, but wouldn’t making gold easier to acquire make it less valuable?

This is my point – ‘liquid’ gold is harder to acquire now.
So the value of gold right now is worth more as you cannot get ‘liquid’ gold more easily.
The accumulation of savings resulted in higher mat prices – which will take a long time to fall (which makes sense).

This then has a bit more of a feedback loop reducing gold even more from the system (savings) and new generated gold (as players generate less).

The thing is – these ‘junk’ items and mat drops – are at the same rate as before.
This would still be a reduction in the liquid gold which has occured.

There are certain items which are fixed in price as gold sinks
e.g. Icy Runestones – 100g Minimum for Each Legendary
Commander Pins – 300g

If Gold becomes harder to acquire – these items in turn become harder to acquire.
This is why liquid gold and the ability to earn liquid gold can be important to a player.

If you are trying to get ascended armor – costs right now (without boxs) are about 600-700g for your first character. This gets you an entrance ticket to high end fractals and potentially raids (if that profession is required).
Which allows you to earn other fractal pieces over time.

These high costs have not gone down – they went up as the material prices went up.

The problem is the pool is big for gems its been inflated for a very long time – its a good wealth transfer back now for an individual to get liquid gold. The pool will take a very long time to drain.

I cannot see yet how there has been any increase in actual liquid gold across the players. Events reward XP (not gold).

Materials quantity’s have gone up for players which are being swapped for gold via TP.
It honestly looks like the plan is to drain the economy a bit more of liquid gold.

Loot is not liquid gold – this is materials. Materials <> Liquid gold.

I can make 10-15G/Hr running around farming materials and selling back to the TP- hitting rich nodes (wood/ores) – you must be doing it wrong. This is not liquid gold again.

The argument is how much liquid gold is being produced.

Oh wait.. more liquid gold source:
PVP – its slow but not much !!!

Okay let me explain further – where are the liquid gold sources right now:
Fractals (limited) – max N Gold via dailys.
Dungeons (limited) – reduced rewards
RAIDS (limited) – once/week for each boss kill : Cost of raiding outweighs the liquid gold profit.

Many Events are generating more materials:
Octovine (end chests),
Dragon Stand (Materials pumped out: Not liquid gold).
SW (Materials pumped out: Not Liquid gold).

This site worked with the average drop rates over a longer period of time – some precursors will cost more via the Mystic Forge route – some less over a RNG average.

Hi All,

I know this question comes up time and time again – how much does it cost via the mystic forge to make pre-cursors?

Well there has been lots of research on the cost of making these items and most of them are comparable to the RNG forging prices.

There is a website which you may want to check out:
http://gw2profits.com

In some with average RNG – you’ll be > 300g/pre-cursor in profit.
I know it takes some significant gold to play the RNG Route – but will allow you to see how closely the rare prices/exotic prices and ecto salvaging prices are tied to maintain a market.

Have fun !

Hi All,

You will now notice on your trading post – a counter of how many items you have for sale in your buy or sell history (under my transactions) – bottom right.

This is fantastic -amazing !!

Stuff like this needs a Patch note !

Kudos to ANET – you are amazing !

Many Thanks,

Wanze.8410:

TPMN.1483:

Its not too hard to have a lot of things listed on the TP though…

yeah it depends how you define account value, liquid gold, etc. Your trading post sell order value of 32k on efficiency just means that all the things you have listed atm accumulate to that value, if you add their lowest listing prices. And the 641k value of your estimated gross sales from gw2bltc is what you listed it for.

Which means that all your listings are listed at 20 times their current lowest listing values.
So i would guess that its mostly items that are or have been bought close to vendor value and listed with an ROI of several thousand percent. Your listing count must be in the millions…

Yes- about 7.2 Million items

My Mantra is as follows:
I believe ‘buy’ low (at bottom) and sell ‘stupid’ high – spread beat across a large market.

Nope- not when I can get it 20%-30% from legit sources.

DeadlyDohnut.7052:

TPMN.1483:

So in normal mode – I say only ‘blues’ should drop at 300% MF.
Anything more would be outrageous.
Map progression should also be capped at 50%
All nodes (harvesting) should also be removed.

‘Hard’ mode – has the existing MF Rate – and other stuff.

Uh… did you even think about what you said before posting this?
lets go backwards:
1 All nodes taken out in normal maps? so in hardmode u want to farm all that copper? to make all those lvl 5 weapons? How are u going to get crafting to 500 for acended gear if you cant craft without nodes? because u need acended gear or exotic gear to play in hard mode and survive. unless you want all casual players to only be able to buy mats on the auction house?

2 Map progression stops at 50%? what if 50% requires half of a vista how do u cut it in half? secondly this stops leveling progression and map completion and world map completion. to have to go back after u finally reach lvl 80 to replay every map again just to get map completion bonus would be stupid. for leving up those map completion bonuses give you tons of exp…this would also leave a random half of the map worthless to explore untill u reach high eneough level to produce high level gear for hard mode.

3 Normal mode should only drop blues at 300% MF…? are you crazy…i think you are. i am a vet player(played since beta) i dont have but around 200% MF and your telling me that i would only get white drops and trash drops in a normal mode map? Blue and green drops are what give luck when salvaged…how the eff can u get to 300% MF if you cant even get any luck drops from salvaging.

My thoughts…tpmn =troll

Hard mode should have the same MF and loot table as normal mode. Normal mode should stay as it is now. There should be hardmode titles. more mobs in hardmode, more difficult mobs, no telegraphs, keep level reduction the same but increase mob hp by 100% , dmg by 50% and respawn rate by 100%. maybe take out all the basic nodes and only have rich nodes scattered through out the map. (yes even rich plants and trees.)

It would be a fun way to group up and loot farm in all maps or to try solo against much harder mobs to actually use dodging and aoe placement skills to survive. all players should have access even if their gear is all blue maybe hardmode is to easy for some and someplayers may want to make a video on how to farm hardmode with blue gear…who knows.

Right lets get this right – I’m not a troll – this is just an abusive insult so stop it now.
I will explain my reasoning..

If you are doing existing content in an easier mode – you should not be getting the same level of rewards as someone doing the content in a normal or harder mode.

The gold/hr earnt from
(a) Material farming = VERY High right now
compared to the
(b) GOLD/Mob Farming = VERY Low

In lvl 80 zones like Orr, HoT Maps – if the mobs were easier it would make Material farming even quicker than before. So you earn more gold/hr in a easy mode map than a normal or harder mode map. This is bad – this means skill is not rewarding.
There are already rich node farms which people do in the current normal mode maps and earn a high gold/hr – you would need to remove these from the easy mode maps.
People would just clear the mobs around them even faster – this would increase the farm/hr.

This is why the amount of materials available in an easy mode map need to be significantly reduced.

In response to my 300% MF is easy to get – yes it was if you took advantage of the lucky envelopes that were giving you a large profit on each purchase as well as increasing your MF. The amount of people with 300% MF is significant for the long-term vets. There are already many threads where people are just destroying the magic find rubbish which is dropping.

I know I’m currently at 472K Luck Over the 300% MF Limit – this is not hard.
If you’re not at 300% MF you can easily get this farming cursed shore or any HoT Map where there is plenty of mobs.

If Mobs are dying faster in ‘easy’ mode – without reduced rewards – this would mean that you would be earning more than someone who is doing it in ‘normal’ or a ‘harder’ mode. This creates another imbalance gold/hr vs skill.

The game is casual in terms of you can drop into an event or something anywhere in the world. You dont need to plan for hours on end where you are going to go – trek all the way across mutliple maps – you can just WP there and do what you want.

I’ve seen many hard-core games – this is not one of them.

Remember this person also has nearly every BLTC skin unlocked ;-)

Nah – liquid gold is the gold actually in the persons wallet it’s counted separately from account value.

Its not too hard to have a lot of things listed on the TP though…

If I said one of the richest players has a bank full of eternitys -1tab – you would not believe me.

Manasa Devi.7958:

How do powerful blood and charged lodestones generate gold?

These are the material swaps for gold.. they are just the swaps for X being made.
They are just a distribution of items for karma – for those getting pact supplies.

I would argue that gold generation X in actual liquid rewards has probably gone down.

Its not about running out of gold – but the generation of gold is slowly becoming less.

The Shiny Baubles – are a slower gold/hr than other map rewards.
Such as the famous week 6 – map rewards from Frostfang with Powerful Bloods/Charged Lodestones etc – which are being swapped for gold. Many players are getting 500g in a single day on the map reset for swapping from karma.

That gold is not being produced as easily in the past.

A Bank almost full of eternitys – now if you could only see the details – you would see it is not wrong.

The funny thing is ANET has no way of knowing who it is or the ability to check ‘account’ value in this way. Its the third party sites which actually have better tools than ANET does.

It also doesnt take much effort to have lots of legendarys listed on the TP – remember whats in the bank/chars can be dwarfed by current sell rates on the TP.

I would not be shocked if there were many players with > 500K in listings on the TP right now (with a current value > 100K if it all sold).

The question is how much do you think is too much?

This is the point :
Gold may be coming from fractals – but many players are starting to stop playing this due to the swamp mess monsters are booring.

Ascended mats are now dropping like crazy from raids (see raiders chest).

More gold is currently being earnt/HR swapping mats> TP (than doing skilled events after the Fracs). This has made the game go from a high skilled event game → I can harvest and sell game (low skilled). Dungeons for all their faults still required some degree of skill and certainly required more skill than harvesting nodes.

If more players stop doing fractals through Bordem- will the mats being generated and gold(eg shiney baubles) be enough to stop a large deflationary pressure?

The account is real – the account value can also have many sellable things such as NxEternity in storage.

We tried to tell ANET the legendary market was sown up by a few very rich individuals – you have just met one

Stupid question – do any of you use EVGA Precision X?
The GPU software or any other nvidia hook in GPU Software?

The reason I say this as it has a nasty habit of crashing GW2 – there is some weird conflict that goes on with these two items. Yea I know it’s a useful piece of software.

Hi All,

Okay – it has been a few months since HoT was released and the economy is stable – according to John Smith (AKA: GW2 Guru Economist from the Matrix)…

So a quick summary:
Liquid Gold income has been reduced from many sources including Dungeons (which may get raised). It is now harder to earn liquid gold – it is becoming a rarer commodity.

Gems -> Gold has been slowly going down (on average)- more $ required for liquid gold [small decrease]

Materials have increased in cost across many areas – due to a demand created for guild halls, legendary items which will taper off in the next year or so.

Potions have reached rock bottom as there is very few people running dungeons (due to gold nerfs). They become unprofitable to run in many cases on a gold/HR vs skill required ratio.

Prices should be falling of many goods – or at least stabilising (see – Precursors: many have fallen in value and will continue to do so: eg Zap which can be crafted for about 460g via MF – see www.gw2profits.com). The increase of exotic drops from raids and 300% MF across more players due to the Chinese New Year celebrations.

We are moving more toward a material barter system X worth Y compared to Z.
Materials are now worth more kitten many items are required for new legendarys moving forward. Materials farmed from dungeons such as dust, chocolate, butter – have all reduced in supply raising prices. There has been increased demand for T6 refined time gated materials: Elonion Leather, Damask, Spirit wood – which is now being supplied by Raids – prices will slowly fall of these as these items were stable for last few months.

It has become harder for players to earn gold recently unless they are swapping real $ for gold (hence gem rates slowly falling).

Scribing costs will be reduced / reworked in the near future .

Black lion skins are slowly reducing in cost – which is a good thing !

If the removal of liquid gold in the dungeons have been proven to not have that large effect on the economy as the rewards may be increased moving forward (AMA Reddit thread)- do you think we will return to an inflation on many items as players return to this format?

Generally it has been a success in maintaining prices of items within reasonable thresholds over the long term – John has been a genius – a true economic architect with carefully crafted price swings – moving gold into hands of a small % vs the majority.

This could be a major shake up to the economy moving forward – what do you think will happen if the (a) scribing costs reduce (b) increased liquid gold is put back into dungeons? © we have had much success reducing the amount of gold in the game?

Any thoughts where we might be heading next?

Okay – the ‘BUY’ order history bugs as previously reported now seem to be fixed – I have changed nothing my end..

Now to the Sell History Bugs:

Sell History: Bugs
Load ALL Items for SALE -

1) Filter listing borked
Filter by a listing such as ‘EXOTIC’
Start typing into the search bar something which got returned such as ‘TRUTH’

This then returns incorrectly the number of items you actually have for sale as that item. It is duplicating (miscounting items) and not showing the correct results. This has been verified by using: www.gw2bltc.com – to check counts and amounts items have been placed for.

The second bug that sometimes occurs here – is the item you know you have for sale is not even listed.

Workaround for item (1) – Type your search filter into the dialog box first.
Then Load More in your current transactions → selling.
This then correctly lists the items / amounts you have for sale.

If you find any other bugs or can confirm – feel free to add to the thread.

Why do people think its zerker stacker meta?

So gear = skills argument again?
- Its active defenses and optimal play in a set of armor which allows them to do most dmg and take most dmg if they mess up active defenses.

If a boss can be blinded or reflected (Active defenses) – thats cool to prevent the players dying.

Most of the mechanics in dungeons are more complex than those in the fractals and certainly in the raids.

I still love dungeons always will and did from GW1 – they had the best dungeons.

Hi All,

All bugs are verified after clearing the GW2 cache—-
The following are bugs in ‘NORMAL Mode’
Items in the ‘My Latest Trades’ are showing the sold amount/icon and not the name of the item sold. The item in question was ‘defient blaze’ sold for 2g 97s 90c. It correctly shows the name when highlighted over..This happens only when the client is first loaded – subsequent views of my latest trades work (with the item loading correctly).
This will happen every time the game is restarted.
This bug is intermittent

Current Transactions: (After LOAD More is max’d out):
Current transactions buying history – there are items being displayed with icons, without the name listed – this is after loading a historical set of items.

Sorting and Filtering (Current Transactions):
Sorting by a Filter such as ‘legendary’ while loading more works (display results).
Then Ordering by Price – returns 0 results – We know there are results as we just had them in the list.

Load History:
You cannot load your complete historical orders (BUY) or (SELL) orders
This has been confirmed by checking the API and number of orders being returned from the system. The LOAD More – button vanishes before the complete history loads up.

Load ‘MORE’ Bugs:
Hitting LOAD More – which requires spamming will display the bottom item in the list instead of correctly loading more.

Suggestions:
1) We need a ‘LOAD ALL’ history button : This can then Load all the items in our history.
2) Display number of items ‘loaded’ – so we can verify via the API that all our items are loaded for sell or buy orders.
3) Ensure filters applied – also return a number of results (e.g. 2 items found) – and that the display correctly shows them
4) Validate via the external API that the information is being correctly returned.

Why is a working trading post important to the economy?
—> Ask John Smith.

Many Thanks,

I think there needs to be a visual text dialog – to know you have the poison skull on you.
Just like the Timed bombs @ Sabatha.

So in normal mode – I say only ‘blues’ should drop at 300% MF.
Anything more would be outrageous.
Map progression should also be capped at 50%
All nodes (harvesting) should also be removed.

‘Hard’ mode – has the existing MF Rate – and other stuff.

If no-one is ahead of you there is no que – you’re just a random person waiting.

“Time has no independent existence apart from the order of events by which we measure it.”

I don’t think a looking for raid thing placing random people together works.
The part leader – should be able to:
(A) Specify requirements
(b) Choose professions / builds etc

I expect players to meet the above.
A team composition is important – throwing N random builds together generally won’t be very effective. Once they fix the lfg – people can advertise there interest and leaders should ve able to start advertising what they need (a) and (b) without people trolling the system or lfg.

Unfortunately some feel it’s okay to be carried and expect to be thrown into a winning group or just try for a very long time at content – this may not be everyone’s goal.
Some want an optimal group others just for fun- the ability to group together based on like minded ideals without fear or trolling is important.

The events are not even the issue -

It’s the OP who is dying as I can gather from this thread.
If you look at events in Orr – such as solo a champion giant these are designed to be group events 5 ideally. But doesn’t mean it isn’t possible to do it solo – with practice, time and dedication.

Like all things practice makes perfect.
Some events are able to be solo’d others need a buddy for a safety net until you learn to solo them.
You wouldn’t all go fight a legendary wyvern solo would you?

We have heard very little from the OP on exactly what the exact issues are :
Is it specific events, a specific mob or just feeling overwhelmed as there is so much new stuff to Learn (which is common with any expansion)- as people get complacent with the learning curve they went through in so many zones : Orr, SW, Dtop etc

There is no que…if you believe hard enough.
It’s fine we waited 10 mins for a match at ruby – was sad

ProtoGunner.4953:

There are some attacks from mobs which are ridiculous, I once got hit by a mushroom explosion for 34k damage…

Anyway, I played now with 6 classes in HOT and after a certain time you usually get along alone. IT’s not that hard, just be active, dodge at the right time, use your evades and know what your skills are doing. IT’s really a learn to play issue. But it seems a lot of players are just mashing the skills on cooldown – let alone see all the braindead bearbow rangers with their hit-LB-skill-4-on-CD…

So basically get good?
Learn the enemy attacks / what they do have skills ready to counter / learn your class (evades/invuls/dodges) – no more face smashing keyboards – play well have fun !

https://m.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/27am2f/lots_of_data_weapon_forging_since_the_feature/

Check here for good data

The key is to ensure you have a few people taxiing in others.
Once that is up – it’s a case of lead and eventually people will follow.
The hardest bit recently has been encouraging people to keep taxi individuals into a map.

Those that do keep the taxis up (best done in pairs- so the lfg doesn’t bug) are awesome.
Also helps to announce you will lead a T4 pylon after the Octo meta – helps encourage a few more to stay.

Nope- it doesn’t need nerfing.
The boss is designed to be scaling as required.

The best way to encourage a map to do this:
Get into a AB 30 mins before Octo meta- do the meta then lead a full T4 pylon event.
Start the clear at South, north and west- taxi more in (ignore any map closing stuff)- if any pylon group finishes they can start east.

Then slowly as numbers come in they can start east get them to yell when easy 2/3 pylons done – everyone in the map ports to east WP to kill the vintootb.

Any good commanders worth their salt will encourage people to stop everything and do VT when it is up. I’ve seen a few commanders that insist doing NSW before VT – and force everyone to miss out. This is a bad strategy.
NSW pylons will still be there – but VT is once / meta cycle on a strict timer

I’ve killed VT many times and led AB maps to kill it – getting T4 pylons and then a HP farm after all pylons. There is usually 30 mins left for exploration if everyone works together after getting t4 pylons in AB.

I have personally quite a bit of random gold tied up at stupid low levels – just didn’t bother cancelling orders (often as the tp was broken).

I wonder what the effect in the economy will be when all these amounts get returned to players?

Any ideas – tin foil hat time.

Side step. Oh Terragriffs just cripple them they fall down. It’s learn to play- just like HoT and get good.

As people have proved in this thread they ‘got good’ – no reason the OP can’t.
HoT tests people to learn there build / class and how to counter enemies.

The same was true in Silverwastes when it was released – remember the Terrargriffs and the KDs?

Most teams should be rushing Lord before 350 points- as the time taken to kill the Lord a single cap will give 10-20 ponts whilst you go for the Lord. IMO- it’s a good idea to go for it about 320 points.

I don’t know why teams fail to go for it and think holding caps will work all the time.
IMO; The best defense is OFFENSE !
Now where have I heard that before?
The art of War maybe?

It’s funny – was in a match similar to the one described above…
Told them to go for the Lord @340 points and defend ours (Ele go for it)- as score was really close.

I went to the Lord and was fighting on it (2v1 vs there Lord +1 player healing it).
Ele ignored defense for Lord (as they have good heals)- they went a capping.
Others also went a capping.
Enemy team went into our Lord and killed it fast just before we could kill there’s.
We lost 470 v 500 or something.

Why?
No one was listening to the call to (a) go kill there Lord, (b) defend ours © forget capping.

There are so many people that underestimate the kill Lord mechanic right now and the ability a support (heal) role can play in slowing a team down winning.

This happens often on the 32 bit client.
Are you running the 64 bit client?

Hi All,

I’m on I am Evon Gnasherbalde mode…
We’ve seen this bug before – you click ‘load more’ and it should load all your prior buy orders …
Unfortunatly it only loads like 100-200 buy orders or so.

Why is this a problem?
It doesnt allow you to cancel very old buy orders – which can result in some epic fail buys !

Please look into it , add the bug and fix it again.

Thanks

Win/loss per tiers over time
MMR increase|decrease / tier over time

It should hopefully show that lower tiers are sorting themselves out now we are a week in.