Guild Wars 2

DeceiverX.8361:

The trait was really OP though, and absolutely had to get nerfed. I was hoping for some kind of fun revealed mechanics though instead as to punish stealth spammers.

Because Stealth Trap, Lock On, Sick ’Em and Analyze are so skillful and fun counters to stealth thieves.

borgs.6103:

Kageseigi.2150:

So are we talking very high-level interrupt skills required?

What professions have insta-cast interrupts?

Thieves’ pistol 4. :P

0.25s cast time is insta now? nope.

Thieves: Traited Steal
Mesmer: Mantra
(dont know whether mesmers trait that copies the stun effect on you to your target also counts/would help you in this situation)

Traenn.3471:

Two more things i’d like to add to the list

Scorpion Wire

1st Problem : Projectile Speed
Unless your target is standing still or running towards you, there is no way it will connect even at half range ( skill has 1200 range ).

My suggestion : double projectile speed and cast time.

2nd Problem : Damage
Damage on Scorpion Wire is just …. meh , it’s less then pistol auto attacks which says alot.

My suggestion : Either double it or remove it completly and allow thiefs to pull someone and keep stealth which might be a cool tactic to start a fight.

Ambush

1st Problem : HP
At this moment summoned thieves have 5000hp which makes them die to almost anything without enemy even noticing.

My suggestion : make them have the same hp summons from Thieves Guild have, which is 8000hp.

2nd Problem : Range (male ) thief
At this point range summon uses black powder once and unload three times ( and does not auto attack between those abilities ) if it stays alive for the whole duration. To put it in perspective in terms of damage, it’s like puting on enemy 4 stacks of bleeding without any condition damage ( which can be blocked/ killed / dodged etc. )

My suggestion : Make it auto attack between abilites.

3rd Problem : Melee ( female ) thief
It uses scorpion wire… which does decent damage but is uncontrollable by player which usually leads to missplays.

My suggestion : Replace scorpion wire with something else , like heartseeker or haste

4th Problem : RNG
The is no telling which one you’ll get and that’s…. just bad.

My suggestion : figure out a way of either
a ) letting player know wich one they’ll get( maybe change skill icon when trap is on the ground )
or b) make it dependent on player weapon, if player puts the trap down with melee weapon equipped , he/she gets a melee ( female ) thief , if player puts the trap down with ranged weapon equipped , he/she gets a ranged ( male ) thief

Thank You

+1 like these changes, hope anet reads this

Karl McLain.5604:

Bountiful Theft has its own stealing table/order. We’re looking into the possibility of changing it to function similarly to the conversions, but there’s also a chance that we move to “first-in-last-out” in the future as well. The big thing is that we always want to assure benefit, so that you don’t steal the tail-end of swiftness for 0.5 seconds (also, it’s preferable for balance that we don’t let the trait steal minutes worth of specific boons). Here’s the order, Resistance and Slow included:

Aegis
Stability
Protection
Regeneration
Retaliation
Fury
Swiftness
Might
Resistance
Quickness
Vigor (since the trait already gives you this one)

Flanking Strikes still uses the first in last out system and won’t be random, since it’s not a conversion.

Hope this helps,
-Karl

Like this order and see the reasons behind it, thanks!
Please dont make it be random though, it’s a master trait after all that synergizes a lot with other traits – if it doesnt remove stability and aegis first it will be really hard to use and probably not worth taking

Even though I think Executioner will find more use than Improvisation just because it offers you more burst and is not that rng heavy as well as doesnt rely on your opponent
might change my opinion though if the changes go life as withdraw could theoretically be recharged

Thing is that D/D, S/D and P/P are gonna be nerfed with the patch so i predict some S/P and a lot of D/P incoming – 66600, 66006 or 60606 probably, for S/P i could see 66006 or 60066, maybe 66060
These builds are pretty hard for mesmers to fight currently, but their hardest counter S/D gets nerfed quite a bit so they might stand a way better chance now than before the patch due to all of the important traits of them being made baseline

Sadrien.3470:

Kicker.8203:

Windwalker.7421:

MailMail.6534:

Hmm it’s still to be seen, but I’m pretty sure thieves will still counter Mesmer. My hope is that it just won’t be a ridiculously hard counter anymore.

Totally agree. I don’t think that it’ll be Mesmers>Thieves, that was not a notion I was ever defending, but it was:

Thief >>> Mesmer

and may now be closer to:

Thief >= Mesmer

With many caveats of course…

Mesmers gonna get half of their best traits(including a grandmaster) baseline. They get up to 4 traits melted into one. Blind on shatter. these alone get thieves rekt

Theives already have numerous blinds to spam, an immobilize cleanse + evade and uninterruptable heal, and are gaining a huge boost to their effectiveness through gaining the ability to use ectoplasm 2x = almost perma uptime on all the boons in the game + the ability to steal the mesmers boons. The match should continue to favor thieves a little but we will have to see how even the playing field is when this goes live.

I personally main a thief and I will use Improvisation pretty rarely as there’s also the choice of taking Executioner.
The only time where I’d ever consider taking it is if i duel a mesmer (but as if i’d ever change my build for a duel lolz) as its a really situational trait (sometimes the stolen skills are just utterly useless)
But as our main heal also has a skill category now my opinion may change when the changes are life.

Coronit.9432:

No just there my friend, not just there…
And yes, that was necessary.
[Good bye being completely invincible while using rams with ram-mastery :´<]

50% former RoS + 50% ram mastery = 75% damage reduction, they dont add up directly

in the thread Guild Wars 2 Discussion the devs announced the balance changes that are coming next tuesday

I like the title.

Meryn.6875:

With quickness now being a boon and removable, I think they will shorten the cooldowns. 60sec cooldown for a 4sec removable boon is just not worth it.

they are also gonna add fury to it – i hope for like 6-10s

perma quickness? too op, there will be a cd

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Now if they could just remove that kitten auto-smokescreen from the deceptions trait, it would possibly be an appropriate alternative to shadow’s embrace for specialized builds.

Why, you a plan to go down often? Else this added auto-smoke can be ignored.

It’s just an annoyance.

If I gave you some food and served it with a pile of crap, would you eat the crap too? I’m not sure about you (and I won’t judge either way), but I’d rather the pile of crap just not be around my food at all. I don’t care if it’s a free extra I get with the meal, I just don’t want it there.

Bad analogy.

Basically, if you open the door, you’ll get tarred and feathered — so don’t open the door.

In other words, don’t allow yourself to go down — play smart.

But why should you be punished even more when you’re down already?
Smoke screen is just totally useless when down because all it does it blind a bit and block projectiles – something that helps you way less than some stealth when down for example.
The same thing could hve been sai about Last Refuge:
“Play smart. Dont let anyone get you to 25% health and you won’t have a problem with it.”

Sir Vincent III.1286:

snip
probably need to check the notes again because I don’t remember reading the vigor change. Thanks.

No problem, its roght at the beginning along with the rest of the boon changes. Easy to just accidentally scroll over

i didnt read through all of it because thats just ridiculous

that’d incredibly buff thief, want us to be buffed so that anet can laughingly nerf us later gain? was that your plan?

actually when i read your proposed mace head crack change i get the feeling its a troll… a troll that took you a long time to set up

Yamsandjams.3267:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Now if they could just remove that kitten auto-smokescreen from the deceptions trait, it would possibly be an appropriate alternative to shadow’s embrace for specialized builds.

Why, you a plan to go down often? Else this added auto-smoke can be ignored.

It’s just an annoyance.

If I gave you some food and served it with a pile of crap, would you eat the crap too? I’m not sure about you (and I won’t judge either way), but I’d rather the pile of crap just not be around my food at all. I don’t care if it’s a free extra I get with the meal, I just don’t want it there.

I’ll have to save this somewhere, will probably want to quote you at some point.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Tarkan.5609:

The only way to go up to 100% endurance regen after the changes is with that one food though
i think thats +40% so would be 115%… the last 15% being totally useless

Um, after the change we’ll get 150% vigor just by picking Acro. Unless they changed how endurance works, that 50% from Endless Stamina will have no effect.

Ehm Anet are reducing the effectiveness of vigor by 50%
meaning the new 3rd minor trait in acro will give you vigor of an effectiveness thats equal to 75% of what vigor is currently doing
for everyone else vigor will have 50% of its effectiveness compared to the way its now

to be clear: Endless Stamina is the 3rd minor in acro atm which increases your dmg by 10% if your endurance is not full
It’s getting removed, the only real dmg increase that acro ever had (along with the removed might on dodge)

Necrotize.2974:

nightblood.7910:

yeah in 1v1 I think thieves need to be more concerned about this:

Blinding Dissipation: Whenever you use a shatter skill you blind foes around you for 3 seconds.

I think this is going to give shatter mes a chance with thieves.

It’ll be annoying for sure, but unless they add some sort of drawback to a blinded/blocked backstab, it’ll just mean wasting a shatter skill to delay a backstab by 1 second.

even though they’ll see the “missed” sign and will know that thats the time o dodge/stealth/blurred frenzy

but yeah i still think thieves will have an advantage against mesmers – even though who gets the first burst off atm is really important

Kadin.2356:

WvW is PvE. At least as far as balance goes, so C&D is taking a ~17% damage hit. That is totally worth it not to have all the timing be different in PvP. I can actually play the same character in WvW and PvP and not have it feel alien and weird with all the timings/damage being different.

As a side note: I don’t think it will be worthwhile to detonate cluster bomb anymore, at least on a power build. The added bleeds will do so little damage that it won’t compensate for the chance of a missed cluster and loss of blast finisher.

Your post sounds like anet are also giving revealed the same duration in wvw and pvp, truth or not? i didnt see anything like that

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Don’t get caught up with Endless Stamina…until they change the core functionality of Endurance, the endurance rate will cap at 100%.

The only way to go up to 100% endurance regen after the changes is with that one food though
i think thats +40% so would be 115%… the last 15% being totally useless

anet better leave my dmg untouched

actually i think a little acro nerf was needed but not in this way, this is getting rid of any dmg acro offered while also nerfing the dodges you could get

something that’d hve to be worked on is general condi removal and the strength of traited stealth via SA – as well as the weak untraited stealth

Underwater skill buff?? what?
so we cant even beat thieves underwater anymore? they are already op, at least underwater allowed for some counterplay

swaghaft.1732:

Strategist.6132:

What are you suggesting with this post? I personally liked the trait a lot.:P (It saved me a lot of times:P) You think it should be removed entirely? (Please provide arguments why you’d like to see that) Or do you think it should be moved up the ladder or become a minor?

are you stupid or why do you post troll vomit like that? you can’t be taken serious.

in case you’re stupid:
https://www.google.de/search?q=gw2+thief+last+refuge&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=K2WAVYqfJMblUomVgegE#q=gw2+thief+last+refuge+site:forum-en.guildwars2.com

I wouldnt put it as harshly as you but yes, as long as its Blinding Powder on 25% health it should rather be removed as almost no one will take it (definitely not over SE but lets not look at that atm)
if both you and your opponent are low you kinda want to get him down before he gets you down – often a good idea is to be aggressive, as that will make a lot of players panic and play defensive. and that is what gives you the win

so lets assume you are about to C&D or to Hs through a blackpowder and random bleed puts you to the 25% health treshhold – awesome, youre revealed and wasted initiative

In a fight you will never be 100% able to say when youre gonna reach the treshhold and also the cooldown is not easy to keep track of in a longer fight.

So either it BP on 25% health should go to Blinding Powder on down and smoke screen on Down should go to Smoke screen on 25% health
OR both traits should be removed as they have a terrible design

another way to fix it is to just give thieves one option for SA adept tier: SE
bcause lets be real, who is ever going to take one of the other 2 traits in their current design over thief’s best condi remove?

Yeah, exactly.

Strategist.6132:

Tarkan.5609:

Quadox.7834:

swaghaft.1732:

i disagree with op completely. burning can also stack now and if there are mesmer and thief on the team every engineer will use it to shut down thief, especially in low rank play. i think d/p meta zerk is dead and i’m not sure about s/d being a proper alternative (was nerfed hard also). when engi runs anti stealth trait thief d/x does little damage. high risk low reward gameplay

Thief changes are strong asf, but engi might wreck thieves, yes. SD wasn’t nerfed.

S/D was nerfed. Not gonna discuss whether it was necessary or not, but it got nerfed.
Sure, there is that nice trait for initiative regain, but:
1. the new Feline Grace reduces the overall amount of dodges
2. vigor got nerfed, of course that also hits other classes but S/D is the only build that entirely depends on dodges (and teleports)
3. the current Endless Stamina ensures that S/D thieves have more regular dodges than other classes, but you dont get that +10% dmg from Fluid Strikes

sure you can take panic strike and executioner/improvisation now, but i left that out as thats simply due to having 3 full trait lines which every profession/build gets

Maybe you know more about S/D then we do. I think S/D is still a viable option though. So basically it means that only thieves have 100 percent endurance regen right? But Upper Hand and Don’t Stop are nice grandmaster traits if you ask me. You’re right though when you say the Acrobatics doesn’t provide extra damage anymore, and the dodges might be affected a bit

Though I don’t think that the points you mention above will break S/D. Personally I think the decrease endurance regen for vigor brings professions without vigor (e.g. Necromancer and the like) a bit more up to par.

But I must admit, I am not a S/D player (even though I played it for a while). So it might be true that it will be harder to play it now.

I know you saw it, but just so that everyone knows what i’m talking about:
(taken from a post of mine in another thread)

They wont simply add that bonus so that we are back to our current vigor number.
Currently, we are getting double the endurance with vigor, no changes can be made to that. Thats our current 100% of vigor effectiveness.
With the changes, we will be getting 1,5x the endurance with vigor, but that will be the new 100% for vigor. meaning, if they say that that minor is making vigor 50% more effective, we are talking about 150% of vigor effectiveness with the changes.
Meaning:
- Vigor right now: 2x the endurance gain (100%)
- Untraited vigor with the changes: 1,5x the endurance gain (100% then, in comparison to now 50%)
- Traited vigor with the changes: 1,75x the endurance gain (150% then, in comparison to now 75%)

[also, i dont think they will simply add the 50% to the vigor regen as you hoped in your answer in the othe thread – iirc they never did that before, so as long as its not released yet it should be safe to assume it would end up being 75% of the current vigor]

Overall S/D will be nerfed but I think it will still be playable – even tho S/P may get some more attention with the same playstyle (due to being able to take Panic Strike = long immobilize)
with S/P you would have more burst in combination with stuns and Panic Strike, at the cost of being way more predictable

S/D got nerfed, both in dmg and defense, but esepcially with the GMs in Acro that may make it viable to play
Even though its a hard decision between the Immobilize-Immunity on a 10s CD and the initative on evade on a 3 sec CD – i would tend to take the extra Initiative but we’ll have to see how important the initiative-trait removals turn out to be

i hope they give us something but rejuvination and upper hand… i liked opportunist, little initiative if youre not taking acrobatics

they didnt announce anything thereabouts in the post (they couldve forgotten it, like maybe also the announced +5% dagger dmg buff?)
didnt watch the lifestream

nightblood.7910:

Something along the lines of “you can use stolen goods twice but they are 33% less effective” on the improv trait. Allowing full use if you decide to go to Executioner instead.

then a trait would make worse what it is targetting.
not a good way to balance it imo, then executioner would definitely be the way to go, if you reduce the viability of stolen bundles with improvisation i would never ever take it. 33% less dmg on the warrior’s stolen bundle with the same time it takes to get it through – completely unviable.
What you’d get from the trait is a possible skill recharge (like atm) and 133% (2x 66,6%) of the effevtiveness of your stolen skills while they are taking up double the time.
Letting executioner pass while taking this (which is also a situanional and rng based trait as you may not get a skill recharge and find the stolen bundle to be unusuable in the current situation) wouldnt make sense.

They wont simply add that bonus so that we are back to our current vigor number.

Currently, we are getting double the endurance with vigor, no changes can be made to that. Thats our current 100% of vigor effectiveness.
With the changes, we will be getting 1,5x the endurance with vigor, but that will be the new 100% for vigor. meaning, if they say that that minor is making vigor 50% more effective, we are talking about 150% of vigor effectiveness with the changes.

Meaning:
- Vigor right now: 2x the endurance gain (100%)

- Untraited vigor with the changes: 1,5x the endurance gain (100% then, in comparison to now 50%)

- Traited vigor with the changes: 1,75x the endurance gain (150% then, in comparison to now 75%)

Hope you get what i mean

yeah and they even nerfed vigor… dont really like that on paper, not sure how it will turn out to be

gonna quote myself from a different thread:

S/D was nerfed. Not gonna discuss whether it was necessary or not, but it got nerfed.
Sure, there is that nice trait for initiative regain, but:
1. the new Feline Grace reduces the overall amount of dodges
2. vigor got nerfed, of course that also hits other classes but S/D is the only build that entirely depends on dodges (and teleports)
3. the current Endless Stamina ensures that S/D thieves have more regular dodges than other classes, but you dont get that +10% dmg from Fluid Strikes

sure you can take panic strike and executioner/improvisation now, but i left that out as thats simply due to having 3 full trait lines which every profession/build gets

its 25% reduced dmg (could be 33% imo )
and i think it will be a trait thats rarely taken, unless youre going up against 2 thieves in a team or sth around there

but still, i dont like the possibility of walking around and knowing there may be even more of a threat than a lb ranger with sic em (once i used some cooldowns of course only)

hope they just forgot to mention it
i mean, 5% extra free dmg, why would i say no?

Vavume.8065:

Yamsandjams.3267:

I mean you might as well just delete the other two options on SA adept tier. Shadow’s embrace is just too attractive.

This ^

There is no choice when the choice is this obvious.

True yeah but i mean anet can at least try to give us a choice when fighting non-condi builds even if random weakness or poison can be removed by that…
i mean i will always take SE if i have the chance but they can at least try

EremiteAngel.9765:

godz raiden.2631:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Eremite, are you the forum’s gossip maker 2015?

I think you may be on to something. Every time I log in and even just browse the forums Eremite has a new post somewhere calling something OP, or something else weak, or just stirring up some opinionated arguments somewhere. If he spent the time he spends on this forum on actually playing the game he may have learned how to fight thieves a bit better and not complain about them so much.

And yes, I realize he recently apologized for thief hating, but some of his more recent posts than that one are starting to drift into “whining about thief” territory again. I think it’s fun to read those types of posts though, so I’m all for them lol.

I also think its fun. matching one class against another, probing for more critical thinking and discussion.

Don’t you guys find the forums totally boring without such posts?

i dont get the complains of you guys, this was nothing near claiming thief (or anything) to be op, just some question

so imo while it can be strong, its in a defensive trait line from mesmers which they will (i think at least) rarely use
and no, i also dont think mesmers will stand equal to thieves – we can port after them without great problems, /D builds can still stealth on their clones and the stolen skill is still strong

Doggie.3184:

Entenkommando.5208:

And imagine the necro ability…with double cast you can nonstop fear 10 seconds if you steal twice. (And poor necs don’t even have a useful stunbreak or stability)

It was 3 seconds at most, but they nerfed it in notes probably because of the trait.

“Skull Fear (stolen from Necromancer): The duration of fear has been reduced from 3/2/1 seconds to 2/1.5/1 seconds.”

with improvisation that could still be 8s max tho:
1. skull fear
2. skull fear (through improvisation)
3. steal + 2x more skull fear

of course we dont deal dmg during that and necros can dodge it, but the duration can also be increased through food, eg some condi thieves (even tho idk whether they would ever use that trait, i dont have any experience with condi on thief)

Strategist.6132:

Resilience of Shadows was a bit too powerful at 50 percent I think.
Cloak and Dagger has a nice increase in PvP! (I am not sure how much the decrease in damage affects WvW though)

The only thing I don’t really understand is this:
Choking gas decreased to 2 seconds. I’d rather hope they would buff this because now we can’t rely on the skill to keep players from healing themselves. But that’s just my opinion of course.

personally i hoped for 33% for RoS

for the C&D change i think they are leaving the C&D dmg as it is in WvW and just rebalance the rest to the WvW level – dont quote me on that though, maybe the -17% in PvE may also apply to WvW as i dont know whether C&D deals different dmg at in these two game modes

and totally agree with you on the next choking gas nerf, would rather see the duration increased as we dont get condition duration with DA now and the poison wont stay on for long because everyone can just move out of it before the second tick
guess i will be using it even less now and more clusterbomb

2x ecto is too strong imo, they should maybe change the duration of the boons to sth between 6 and 8 seconds… but afaik there is no real way for us to increase our boon duration so we will have to see

improvisation is – as it was said above – almost useless against engis & non-condi-rangers or some warriors

improvisation may not be taken too often though as it is comparing with executioner

Strategist.6132:

Improvisation is very interesting too! Though I think they removed the damage increase of Improvisation (which it technically never had since a Stolen bundle was never counted as a bundle) so I think most people will go for executioner.

definitely on no-trickery-builds, yes
not sure about trickery-builds but i actually thing youre right, while stolen bundles can be nice they are situational and you sometimes cant even afford to use 1 stolen bundle

Strategist.6132:

Maybe that might be a good change, I agree that Keen Observer is not really a good minor. (After all in general it only works for the initial burst) So maybe just a flat increase to ferocity would be better to make up for the loss in damage compared to the old GM trait.

Should still give you +10% dmg instead of kittening +10% critical damage though (or just like +15% critical dmg), this way it got nerfed two in one… nice anet
(1. no chance to maintain it by careful play)
(2. +10% crit dmg instead of plain +10% dmg)

Quadox.7834:

swaghaft.1732:

i disagree with op completely. burning can also stack now and if there are mesmer and thief on the team every engineer will use it to shut down thief, especially in low rank play. i think d/p meta zerk is dead and i’m not sure about s/d being a proper alternative (was nerfed hard also). when engi runs anti stealth trait thief d/x does little damage. high risk low reward gameplay

Thief changes are strong asf, but engi might wreck thieves, yes. SD wasn’t nerfed.

S/D was nerfed. Not gonna discuss whether it was necessary or not, but it got nerfed.
Sure, there is that nice trait for initiative regain, but:
1. the new Feline Grace reduces the overall amount of dodges
2. vigor got nerfed, of course that also hits other classes but S/D is the only build that entirely depends on dodges (and teleports)
3. the current Endless Stamina ensures that S/D thieves have more regular dodges than other classes, but you dont get that +10% dmg from Fluid Strikes

sure you can take panic strike and executioner/improvisation now, but i left that out as thats simply due to having 3 full trait lines which every profession/build gets

easy to fix:
switch smoke screen when downed and blinding powder when reaching 25% health to smoke screen when at 25% health and blinding powder when downed

still not sure whether they’d be able to compete with SE, even if you put both of these effects in one trait

S/P thieves? i rarely see them in WvW, sometimes play it for some fun bursting or the extra interrupts over S/D
most S/P thieves are rather predictable and therefore pretty easy to beat imo though, only problem is the extremely high burst of some (which is the same with D/D where you can also easily dodge their C&D+Steal combo if you see the animation)

it’s all about knowing your opponent and the way you can counter them (something you need to learn in order to be a S/D thief for example as you need to know what to evade)
mostly in order to fix issues vs a class its useful to roll the class and try the builds to see advantages/disadvantages/cooldowns/playstyle/animations/important skills and what not
or just ask in the forum, people will usually be nice about it and help

dont see too much in pvp finishers though – there are good players who are r80 in pvp, sure, but there are also really good wvw players (mostly roamers) who are like r20 – or bad r80s who farmed their way up or so
you dont even wanna know how many r80s i beat before getting there myself
its something to watch out for, but doesnt have to mean a lot

Daniel Handler.4816:

TyPin.9860:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I can’t see a situation where the traits you describe would be OP or out of control. Perhaps you could give an example?

Well, I tend to not use the word OP. It has been used so many times in so many situations… it lost meaning to me.

But out of control is the best description imho. One example on top of my head is a character with aegis and stability active. One would think, this character would be kinda save from CC. Now correct me, if I am wrong, but to my knowledge Aeiges and Stabi have a high priority on Bountiful Theft and the boon steal happens even before the actual stun effect of Slight of Hand. Resulting in stole Aegis and Stability and a daze for this character…

snip

snip

Fun thing. Revenant will gain stability on dodge, there is also a skill that pulses stability. I assume that the new resistance buff will be last priority on steal, and first on corrupt, to balance that stability is last on corrupt and first on steal. Even if it is not. The whole OPness of thieves in this aspect will be greatly reduced. They can’t interrupt a revenant or a guardian on field that pulses stability. Better yet the revenant stability is so easily accessible it can be a cover boon.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unwavering_Avoidance
The thief could be desperately be trying to remove fury and 25 stacks of might, but all the revenant needs to do is have regeneration and dodge. The thief will end up stealing over and over 1 stack of stability and 1 stack of regeneration. Better yet, revenants taunt on cc every 45ish seconds. So that thief is now “run[ning] towards the source of taunt with all skills except stun breakers disabled while using their auto-attack skill.” Hopefully that thief has their signet or shadowstep on cooldown.

stability on dodge?
hahahahaha. haha. ha. ha?
what??
ehm lol
anet no vigor pls, imagine a hammer warrior vs a revenant with vigor… GG

or against a hammer guardian: RoW? cool, i’ll just dodge MB and walk out.

Peow peow.2189:

I’ll 1v1 you Tarzan. No thief spec. Just d/p with utilities 0/0/0/0/0 and I’ll show u how cheap this class is

00000 d/p an utilities?
okay saved that, send me a message and then see how op it is

DarkSyze.8627:

Daniel Handler.4816:

It’s funny that I don’t even main thief, but as a Mesmer I get annoyed by people complaining about instant skills.

What is your justification that steal is OP?

Because instant skills require no hard-work, no effort and no learning curve: that is why!

I slowly begin to think that according to you nothing requires hard work, effort or whatever xD
oh wait, maybe warrior? meditation guardian? pew pew ranger?
guess thats what you call hard work

ronpierce.2760:

Daniel Handler.4816:

It’s funny that I don’t even main thief, but as a Mesmer I get annoyed by people complaining about instant skills.

What is your justification that steal is OP?

Simply put, with 60606 a 21 second cooldown that:

Deals damage
Heals
Gains initiative
Poisons for a long duration and weakens due to Lotus Poison.
Steals (not rips) 2 boons STARTING with stability (biggest joke of the skill imo)
Shares Boons,
Grants vigor fury swiftness and might~ aoe.
Stealth a for 3 seconds. (Instantly opening for a stealth attack)
Aoe blinds.
Teleports you to your target.
Dazes the enemy.
Gives you an additional skill.
And has a chance to reset some of your most vital skills.

Is too kitten much in one INSTANT skill on a 21 second cooldown. No one thinks that list is at all ridiculous?? Really? O.o

you forgot to mention 3 things:

a) it dealing damage wont let you stealth -> revealed (pls learn your vocabulary first)

b) it takes all 3 trait lines we can chose from and 6 of 9 traits we can chose from to achieve all of this
if we take any other class like guardian and see what traits they can get if they use 6 of their 9 traits i guess you would see why what youre saying doesnt prove anything
(tip: smite condition on a 16s cooldown with one trait alone heals you for the same as mug, deals better dmg, can crit, removes a condi… so whats your point)

c) and lastly, also 3 of the 9 minors we get are involved in gaining these boni

Peow peow.2189:

Gcostanza.2086:

Thief is not OP. Condi thief is very OP. They are thieves with training wheels.

Condi thief is not OP, in my opinion it’s the most balanced spec of the thief class.

Firstly the damage is not so high that you can’t heal it back. They have alot of drawbacks in terms of survivability and require good positioning to land your 5th and 3rd skill.

I hold Condi thieves in high respect. Infact the spec deserves a few much needed buffs.

okay i think this thread should be closed… this guy is clearly a troll (at least i hope so, otherwise something is truly wrong with some people)

btw nobody messaged me ingame so far for the duels i offered if they think thief is op – DarkSyze, Peow Peow, anyone?
guess they dont believe it enough to want to prove it

TyPin.9860:

Tarkan.5609:

the thing is – in order to get a fully buffed steal we need to spend 8, for improvisation even 10 trait points
thats 300 useless condi dmg and 8/10 trait points less to spend somewhere else

for 8/10 trait points only put into steal (even 2 minors of them are steal only minors) you would kinda expect/want it to be strong right?
the amount of trait points make trickery thieves extremely relying on hitting their steal

But also 300 usefull power and condi duration for a panic strike thieve. However, such arguments won’t be of any importance any more in the future. Of course we can’t really know, how the balance will or will not shift with the whole new balance changes.

Already the combo of boon steal, that prioritizes stability and daze is in itself a huge deal. Alone this, combined with the CD reduction makes steal hugely potent in a unique way and imho is kinda out of control. On the other hand, the synergy those traits provide seems so elegant, that maybe it is the wrong approach to look at thief traits, but at the traits of the other professions… well, we will see how things turn out with the balance patch.

Out of control? Strong yeah but i wouldnt say so
You mesmers currently have a GM trait that pretty much improve your class mechanic by 1/3 – you need to spend 6 trait points but only chose one trait for that

something thats way more out of control is the shadow arts line imo but thats a different topic

TyPin.9860:

@Sir Vincent III:
The problem may indeed lay in the traits that modify steal. Compared to other class mechanics heavily traited steal offers too many benefits for too less counter play imho.

the thing is – in order to get a fully buffed steal we need to spend 8, for improvisation even 10 trait points
thats 300 useless condi dmg and 8/10 trait points less to spend somewhere else

for 8/10 trait points only put into steal (even 2 minors of them are steal only minors) you would kinda expect/want it to be strong right?
the amount of trait points make trickery thieves extremely relying on hitting their steal

Silv.9207:

Necro and engi haven’t a single good movement skill, expecially to catch a enemy.

Engi:
- Rifle #5
- Rocket Boots
- Elixir Gun #4
- Perma Swiftness

most engineers nowadays have 3 of these (apart from pistol/shield condi engis)

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Tarkan.5609:

Yamsandjams.3267:

While I can’t agree with making steal telegraphed, it does annoy me that “on steal” things, such as the confusion and daze, still apply even if you manage to dodge or otherwise prevent being hit by the steal. I’ve never understood why they just get that stuff for free, considering the ability is 900 range and instantly cast.

how the kitten are you getting dazed when you dodge the steal?
thats not true, same as thief is not getting vigor and stolen boons from a dodged steal

You can’t dodge/evade conditions, however, you can deny the Thief a stolen item if you timed your dodge/evade.

and deny him a lot more, basically anything but fury/might/swiftness (see the post above)
tbh i dont get your response, if my opponents dodge my steal they neither get the poison nor the daze or whatever, so you can actually evade that condi or what did you mean

alright so anyone who thinks thief is overpowered – i’m maining a thief, rarely play any other classes

but if you truly think thief is op… send me a message ingame and lets duel
you on any power-thief build vs me on medi guard/power necro/cele or SD engi/zerker warrior/fresh air ele

as you think thief is op it should be an easy kill for you he?

Yamsandjams.3267:

While I can’t agree with making steal telegraphed, it does annoy me that “on steal” things, such as the confusion and daze, still apply even if you manage to dodge or otherwise prevent being hit by the steal. I’ve never understood why they just get that stuff for free, considering the ability is 900 range and instantly cast.

how the kitten are you getting dazed when you dodge the steal?
thats not true, same as thief is not getting vigor and stolen boons from a dodged steal