Guild Wars 2

lordkrall.7241:

Test.8734:

Isn’t it amazing how low key this topic is? Being that it’s basically the forum topic about the HoT release date, one would expect it to be by hundreds of posts by now. Instead… Nothing.

As if people didn’t care AT ALL about the release date of HoT.

Or maybe, just maybe, there isn’t really much to discuss about a date? We know when release is not, what else is there to say about it?

Sure, sure.

This topic isn’t empty due to lack of interest, no sir, it’s just that there’s nothing to be said.

ArenaNet didn’t move away from the Living World and decided to make an expansion because the Living World failed, of course not.

HoT isn’t going to have very few maps and only three legendaries because it’s an extremely rushed product, duh.

The game isn’t going free to play because it’s not making enough money, no way, despite that being the reason why every single other MMORPG had to change business model to free to play.

And one day, you will wake up, GW2 will be gone, and the greatest thing is: you will truly be shocked with surprise.

Ah, how sweet will those tears be.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

And as a economical analyser: just no. The base game costed 5 years of hard work, and contrary to what some people say it’s content for a basegame is massive (try map completion for one).

There’s the flip side to that as well. In a Buy to Play model, ArenaNet doesn’t need to rely as much on the cash store since they have at least the money players used to buy the game. When going full free to play, ArenaNet will have to rely even more on the cash store, which means they will likely invest even more in the Gem Store and even less in the game itself.

So don’t expect to see new armor sets reliably any time soon. ArenaNet will focus all artists on making outfits for the Gem Store. The same regarding weapon skins. It will become even worse than it already is, and that’s with HoT being released with only 3 new legendaries.

Isn’t it amazing how low key this topic is? Being that it’s basically the forum topic about the HoT release date, one would expect it to be by hundreds of posts by now. Instead… Nothing.

As if people didn’t care AT ALL about the release date of HoT.

Most underwhelming release date announcement EVER.

Nice to see that ArenaNet didn’t really mean it when they said they would need multiple betas to evaluate when the game will be ready. Considering the massive changes to the specializations after the first beta, looks like half the specializations will be left half finished and we will end with a rushed release.

Pretty much as expected, tbh.

lordkrall.7241:

Indeed, but when you managed to actually get past those stalled points the rest did work out without much issues.

How many game breaking bugs did you expect the events to have? “If you ignore the bug that prevented the event from happening, it was perfect!”? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Knighthonor.4061:

Those things are useless roles in vanilla pve content.

Ah, so the specializations are useless in the great majority of the game, will only be used in the raid (and HoT will have at most two of those), which have always been a niche activity (remember the data about how only less than 10% of WoW players ever bothered with raids), and you think that’s a good thing?

Really?

Specializations are a joke. They should be valuable to most of the game, but, just like you said, many have been so badly designed to be useless in most of GW2 PvE.

mrstealth.6701:

We went from HoT requiring GW2, to HoT including it, to GW2 just being free to everyone in 8 months time. It was barely two months ago when GW2 was announced as being a bonus to new HoT buyers. And now that’s already changing before HoT is even out. I get the impression that Anet doesn’t really know what they want to do with the core game. It just has a feeling of uncertainty and instability…is there some in-fighting over what to do with the game as a marketable product? (cough Nexon attempting another power grab)

I think it’s a matter of GW2 not being as successful as ArenaNet had hoped, hence the need for increasingly desperate tactics (“We won’t make expansions but focus on the Living World instead”, “We will put the Living World on hold and work on an expansion”, “We will charge a lot for the expansion! But hey, new players get the core game for free, and there won’t be a ‘core’ game anymore, all GW2 will be GW2 + HoT”, “No, actually, we will keep a separate GW2 game but it will be free to play”).

Wildkitten.3872:

YES and that is where IGN got their info from. That’s what is in the files now.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

The datamined version from one year ago is not what IGN just twitted about, obviously. We also know it’s wrong – the trailer for the free to play version, which has been linked in this topic and is being discussed by those who actually know their kitten, mentions having access to WvW even when playing for free, which is the opposite of what the old and obsolete datamine said.

Face it, what you smell is desperation. GW2 is now a free to play game.

Behellagh.1468:

Nothing there doesn’t preclude restrictions are aspects of the game that has nothing to do with PvE/PvP/WvW content.

Yeah, because the huge line about experimenting “UNLIMITED” content isn’t a hint that we won’t see the kind of restriction some people in this topic are dreaming about.

Some people will refuse to face the truth even after it bites them.

Vayne.8563:

Lineage is the WoW of Korea. It’s the most popular MMO there and has been for years. Lineage in the US had to close up shop and go home.

Blade of Soul is popular in China the country with the largest population in the world. But Eastern and Western MMOs seldom do well in the same space.

So, what you are saying is that we cannot compare GW2 to WoW, or to Lineage, or to Blade & Soul. In previous posts you also mentioned we cannot compare it with the original GW, either. You are also ignoring its comparison with Aion, too.

In other words, you refuse to compare GW2 with anything. You refuse to accept how poorly its doing while refusing to accept the data in front of you and also being unable to offer any data of your own.

Vayne.8563:

There haven’t been any mass lay offs. An expansion is coming and Anet is hiring.

Despite how important employees have left the company (Chris Whiteside, John Stumme, Kekai Kotaki), despite how they have turned to the expansion model after the Living World failed to increase their earnings, despite the internal mess that saw the constant reshuffling of people in the last months…

You have a very low bar as far as the definition of “success” goes.

Tell me, Vayne, what are you going to do when Guild Wars 2 is shut down and it’s taken from your life forever?

Vayne.8563:

You claim I’m a white knight and that’s fine, but I invite people to take a good long list at your post history. It’s clear you don’t like the game and the fact that you hang around here to badmouth it month after month should be telling enough.

Really? Have I ever called you a “white knight”? Do you have any evidence of that? Because to me it doesn’t like it’s true. Do I have to remind you about what the forum rules say on wrongly accusing people, Vayne?

Behellagh.1468:

So are you proposing we should have a super heavy cash shop based gaming experience to match Lineage’s growth?

Do you have any doubt that ArenaNet would already have done so if they believed that would increase their earnings?

Behellagh.1468:

Sorry, $6.8 million.

[deadpan] Oh no the sky is falling. [/deadpan]

Not really, but someone’s math is failling.

It’s $ 6.261.640,00.

Behellagh.1468:

That would be more than SWG or EQ at their peak.

Oh wow, SWG is such a success story!!!

…Not.

Behellagh.1468:

That’s why you have to forget about WoW because they are an order of magnitude larger than any other MMO out there in terms of income, ever.

Which is why I mentioned the other NCSoft MMORPGs. How do you feel about GW2 doing worse than Lineage 1 and Blade & Soul? Or doing nearly as bad as Aion? And that already factoring the beginning of HoT’s prerelease?

Vayne.8563:

As for people saying the game isn’t making money, I’d say 7 million a month is up there in the MMO arena. I think people who think this game isn’t making money haven’t been following the reports.

Really, Vayne? Is that what you are claiming now?

Per NCSoft’s finantial report, we can see the GW2 earnings. GW2 made 22.470.000.000 Korean won in the second quarter of 2015, or 7.490.000.000 Korean won per month… And that’s not 7 million US dollars.

I think you haven’t been following the reports.

And “up there in the MMO arena”?

Let me give you some perspective: can you guess how much is this in comparison with a certain MMORPG called WoW?

“Ah, WoW is an exception!” – sure it is. So let’s compare with some other MMORPGs: it’s more or less one fourth of what Lineage 1, a game from 1998, makes. It’s less than Blade & Soul, a game that hasn’t even been released in the West yet. It’s almost the same as Aion, which has widely been acknowledge as a failure in the West.

I think you need to look up “up there” in the dictionary. It doesn’t mean what you think it means.

Have the sales increased over last quarter? A slightly bit, sure. Which must be disappointing, considering how the 2nd quarter of 2015 includes the beginning of HoT’s prepurchase, which ArenaNet must be counting on to save themselves… Is that how little HoT will sell?

Everything you have said are extremely poor reasons to think that GW2 is doomed.

Would you like to see good reasons to think that GW2 is doomed?

• The GW2 earnings have been falling since release through Living Worlds 1 and 2. Both, which were meant to take the place of expansions, have failed in giving the influx of money expansions bring.

• Living Worlds 1 and 2 failed. Again, they didn’t keep the game interesting enough to raise earnings; and the experimental nature of both of them (you can see how the beginning of Living World 1 was different from its end, which was different from Living World 2) shows how ArenaNet was trying to find a model that worked for them, only to ultimatelly throw the concept away and go for an expansion. I laugh at people who think that buying HoT will give them access to future Living World content; it’s dead.

• ArenaNet was focusing a lot at the China release, one year ago. The NPE was created after Chinese focus groups were having trouble with the beginning of the game, and they stopped making content for the West in order to prepare for the release over there. Yet, the China release tanked hard.

• HoT is clearly being rushed (few maps, incomplete legendary sets, they’re still making massive changes to the well developed specializations, the bad developed specializations are awful). It’s hard to believe that they will make big, sustained profits once the expansion hits. Why do you think there has been this much secrecy?

One thing you can easily see from hints everywhere – forum titles for ArenaNet employees, Glass Door reviews, talks from ArenaNet people – is that they have a very poor management system. Wasn’t it said that it was only a small team working on the Living World? A few people assumed that meant the studio had been working on a “secret project” for years now, but the lull in content while we wait for HoT has shown the truth – ArenaNet has been mostly spinning on their wheels, mostly due to bad management. Unless they do a massive shake up, it seems very unlikely that they will be able to save GW2.

Wow, amazing how GW2 has sold a lot more than the original Guild Wars!

NOT.

In February 2008, NCSoft released a press report: Guild Wars Tops Five Million Units Sold.

So 3 years after release, GW2 has only sold as many units as the original GW2 had sold 3 years after its own release.

I guess everyone saying how the design of the original GW – the very low level cap, the maxed stats items being very easily achieved, the low impact gear had on a character’s stats – made it a niche game must be happy right now. Congrats! By your own definiton, GW2 is a niche game!

DarkSyze.8627:

“Guild Wars 2 Sales More Than Double Thanks To Chinese Launch: Guild Wars 2 has over 3.8 million Chinese players according to a census uploaded to Reddit, all accrued in just two months after launch”.

Fake.

It was a widely spread rumor, but ArenaNet tweeted about how that was fake information, spread from a Chinese fansite.

The true NCSoft reports mention how the China release of GW2 underperformed, even after everything ArenaNet did for it (do you remember how the NPE came from focal groups with Chinese players?).

AESOkami.1072:

Is pre-purchasing HoT right away a good idea or not?
Please let me know as soon as you can. It could save me alot of money.

LOL, no.

Wait a few months and you’ll be able to buy it at a discount, as soon as the bad reviews start pouring in.

There is little to no advantage of prepurchasing. Access to Beta Weekend Events? We have no idea how many of those will be, as far as we know there could be only one more. Extra character slot? Those will likely go on sale soon after HoT releases as well.

Save your money. This isn’t going anywhere but down.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Any I missed?

Eternal Champion.

Maybe Savage Instinct and Killer Instinct?

Brother Dulfite.5793:

When I see the word announcement, I think of things that we don’t already know about (another words, not specializations).

I’m curious what everyone thinks these announcements will be?

GW2 will now become Pay to Play! Prepare to wonder and marvel at the infinite possibilities that a monthly fee will add to the world of Tyria!

Honestly, though, are you really going to get hyped? Even if ArenaNet weren’t famous for overpromising and underdelivering, that’s obviously marketing speech. Whatever those “big announcements” are, if you really expect anything good at all you will be massively disappointed.

Jinsei.5702:

I am not looking for an argument just understanding what i am spending my money on.

Sure. We will get:

• An overglorified DLC pretending to be an expansion and priced as if it were a new game
• A handful of new maps, most of which will consist of repetitive copy-&-paste events like the Silverwastes
• Half a new profession (the revenant has less skills and less customization than the other professions in the game)
• Specializations, of which only the mesmer, the necromancer and the warrior ones appear to have been well developed among those we know of
• Only 4 legendaries, despite how those have been promised since 2013. ArenaNet is promising to add more, but when, considering (again) the 2013, remains to be seen.

And little else. The other changes – like the change to WvW – are available even to those who won’t buy HoT.

Really, it’s not worth prepurchasing. Wait until after release so you know what you are paying for – the fact ArenaNet won’t tell us about it by itself is a bad sign, but worse comes to worse you can buy HoT for cheap in the recycle bin some months from now.

JUN YANG.4328:

From Apr 28 2005 to October 2006. a year and 4 month 2 expansion. so that mean for HOT. At this stage should be developed at lease the size of Faction.
is HOT larger then faction now?

Give up, expecting people to be reasonable is way too much. They will tell you that you cannot compare GW2 with the original GW (despite how they were similar games in the same universe by the same studio), and will refuse to compare GW2 with any other game (other than saying that Blizzard also charges ridiculous prices for their expansions, so somehow ArenaNet should be allowed to ask an absurd price for what is basically an overglorified DLC).

Answering your question, ArenaNet will have to release HoT in 2015 because they need the money. Why do you think they were so desperate to ask people to pay in full for a game without a release date? Even Kickstarter requires people to specify a release date before asking people to back something up, but ArenaNet stood so low to not say even that when they began their prepurchase.

GW2’s earnings have been falling almost nonstop since release. ArenaNet is likely desperate to make money and thus the very hushed “expansion” they are about to release, with very few maps, poorly implemented specializations (the tempest and the hunter are a joke), with a half new profession (revenant has less skills than anyone else and has the most rigid playstyle in the entire game), and with – LOOOOOL – only 3 new legendaries.

And when ArenaNet says they will add more legendaries “later”, people actually believe it, ignoring how they had already promised we would have seen new legendaries (and even new kinds of legendaries) to be released in 2013… And now, two years later, still nothing.

Nike.2631:

Uh, the announced legendary backpacks would be new types of Legendary gear.

Uhu. Too bad…

• 2015 is not 2013

• A new type of legendary item is not “new types”, plural, of legendary items

Bloodyx.5946:

wait is this real? you guys didnt touch the elites, cantrips, traits…. you just buffed damage?!

someone, is this fake?

I think they don’t know what to do. The issues with the Tempest aren’t a matter of numbers – the specialization itself has been very poorly designed and should be reworked (and the same applies to the Dragonhunter, by the way; notice how both have names that don’t even fit them).

But with ArenaNet at crunch mode, they can’t really afford the time and manpower to rework two (or more) specializations.

All they will do will be to try to use high numbers to hide poor mechanics, until eventually the Tempest skills will become overpowered (despite still being mechanically poor), forcing ArenaNet to nerf it, and then relegating the Tempest to be forgotten.

TauTauRa.9348:

Joke post? It took longer to write up these notes? Nothing fundamental about the Tempest has changed, no changes to horrible traits, and no changes to Elite. This is silly compared to the feedback that Reaper and Chronomancer got.

Different devs.

Take a look at the Reaper and Chronomancer BWE changes: well written and adressing the major points of feedback from the community, with a large number of changes. Heh, the Chronomancer one even mentions why they did NOT change some things. Most of the posters in those topics see the changes as good things and feel like they have been listened.

Meanwhile, the Tempest and Dragonhunter… Their dev has not posted, someone else posted the changes. Said changes are small and mostly tweak numbers, while both specializations need massive reworks. Players feel like they haven’t been listened to.

It’s obvious Chronomancer & Reaper have the same dev, who’s different from the Tempest and Dragonhunter dev.

Hello! Who are you?

Are you the new Hunter developer?

Vikkela.7261:

phokus.8934:

Still waiting, Rob.

Continue waiting then, he posted only like 2 hours ago lol

Not really “2 hours ago” now.

But it’s kinda funny, right?

Chronomancer & Reaper:

• Popular specializations (see the poll that was posted in the HoT forum)
• Get a nice list of BWE feedback changes
• The same developer
• And said developer bothers to post in the forum of the other two specializations, too

Tempest & Hunter:

• Almost universally hared (see the same poll, or anwhere else really)
• Names don’t fit the specialization (“high level” my small cat)
• List of BWE feedback changes…? MIA.
• The same developer
• And said developer has not posted in the specializations’ forums after the BWE

ArenaNet, could you please let Robert design all other specializations, please?

So, between all Legends, we have:

• Jalis, Ventari and Glint almost entirely focused on defense and support, which happens to be completely useless in the current GW2.

• Mallyx focused on weak condition damage.

• Shiro focused on damage.

And that’s it.

The Revenant is simply the most useless profession in the GW2 we have right now. No one would take a Glint-specced Revenant to a dungeon run since it would only slow the team down and everyone has more than enough self defense to survive. It’s like expecting people to take 4 berserkers and 1 guy in Nomad gear.

“Ah, but ArenaNet will add content in HoT that will make support actually useful!”

LOL to that. Even assuming it’s true (pro-tip: no, it won’t be), it doesn’t change how everything in the current GW2 works. What would it mean if HoT gives us 2 or 3 maps in which support/tank/support roles are actually useful, while everywhere else – the entire game we have today, which is FAR bigger than HoT – almost everything the Revenant brings is useless?

I don’t think the profession can be saved (which isn’t that much of a loss, considering how few skills it has; it has less skills than every other profession in the game by far). But Glint should have been focused on long range AoE damage as a caster specialization, which would both give the Revenant a ranged option to using hammer as well as one specialization that is actually useful in the current GW2 other than Shiro.

Kidel.2057:

Wonder why you compared to guardian and not to thief or engi

Because Revenant and Guardian are both two heavy armor professions that share many of their weapons (most weapons, as far as the revenant goes: staff, hammer, main hand sword, main hand mace). Comparing the Revenant with the Warrior would be completely laughable given how many options the warriors have (since they have been announced as the masters of weapons), so I chose to compare with the Guardian.

Would you like to see a comparison with the Engineer? Sure, I can do that.

Engineer:

• Has access to 5 extra skills at all times (the toolbelt). The toolbelt by itself has 26 skills (not counting the turret skills that allow for the turret explosion), which happens to be more than TWICE the amount of utility skills the Revenant has.
• 20 utility skills
• 47 skills for the five first slots (between rifle, main hand pistol, off hand pistol, shield and the 7 kits), not counting the chain skills

Revenant:

• Is one of the few professions with a unique mechanic that doesn’t grant any skill
• 12 utility skills
• 20 skills for the five first slots (hammer, staff, sword+sword, mace+axe)

In other words, the Revenant has far, FAR less than half the options the Engineers have.

Kidel.2057:

I don’t think that the number of things is more important then the quality

Considering even ArenaNet has stated how underpowered a large number of Revenant skills are, it’s clear they are inferior to the other professions in both quantity AND quality.

Honestly, the Revenant feels like half of a profession. Which is fitting, since it looks like HoT will feel more like half of an expansion than a full product (despite the very much full price, of course).

The Revenant shows everything that’s wrong with the way ArenaNet balances GW2.

In the original GW2, the only limit to the skill bar was the number of skills and the restriction to only have at most one elite skill. Other than that, we could combine skills from two different professions, place whatever skill wharever we wanted, and so on.

In the original release of GW2, we lost most of control over the first half of the skill bar, thanks to the weapon skills. As far as the second half goes, it was somewhat restricted, but at least we could choose which utility skills to combine with the healing skill and the elite skill.

Now, we have the Revenant… That lacks even that basic functionality. It’s so restrictive that it would be funny, if it weren’t tragic. Let’s compare a Revenant and a Guardian:

Revenant

• Two-handed: hammer, staff
• Main hand: sword, mace
• Off hand: sword, axe
• 12 utility skills (3 for each legend)

Guardian

• Two-handed: hammer, greatsword, staff
• Main hand: mace, scepter, sword
• Off hand: focus, shield, torch
• 20 utility skills

Revenants have far less weapon skills, far less utility skills, and it’s also far less versatile, given how we cannot change the skills of each legend.

Worse, ArenaNet is very obviously suggesting that players should play in very specific combinations of weapons & legend & traits – they are pushing for double swords to be combined with the Shiro legend and the Shiro traits, for mace and axe to be combined with the Mallyx legend and the Mallyx traits, and so on.

That’s what ArenaNet’s balance philosophy consists of now. Less options, less versatility, in a very restrict system that boils down to players having basically four build options.

And even then, with so little, they still haven’t managed to balance the profession properly, as the massive changes they have just recently made to the profession show. Really, if even when removing player choice and proactivity, leaving us with next to no option, they still can’t balance the game properly, what are they going to do? Give the same five skills for everyone and hope they can balance at least THAT much?

Brian.6435:

I’m not trying to instigate a grind

Yes you are.

Brian.6435:

Been playing a lot of Destiny lately, so that sort of sparked this idea, but show some support if you think this is a good idea.

Destiny is one of the worst games released this century so far. I think there’s nothing that proves more how far people are willing to grind while pretending they’re enjoying themselves.

jgcd.6041:

An MMO, or expansion for that matter, being “complete” means that there is nothing left to add, nothing left to improve, nothing left to change and adapt.

Not really.

We have a very clear example here: ArenaNet said they would release new Legendaries with the expansion. Later they mentioned that no, they won’t be able to add a full set of legendaries, but they will add a few at release and more “later”.

Will they? New legendaries is something they have been claiming they will add “later” to the game for quite some time now. In 2013, they said they would add (in 2013, too) a new kind of legendary gear, even. We got kitten.

So when ArenaNet releases a truncated set of legendaries, admiting they would have liked to release a full set (but didn’t really do so due to expediency), and with a vague promise that they will release the rest of the set “later” (while failing to fulfill many similar promises before)… It’s hard not to feel like HoT is going to be released in an incomplete state.

There are many other similar examples – things about which ArenaNet has said “we were going to add more of those, but not really, so we will add more at a random moment after release”. Mist Warriors, Guild Halls, even more specializations… All those remind me about the promise for periodical releases of new skills and traits (which we got once and never again).

VladeKR.9851:

VW and Breach, they are also “better” boss fights than the original world boss fights.

They’re still rather bad, though.

All boss fights in this game are rather bad.

The first time I did Breach, I couldn’t help but laugh at the boss. I was at the sourthern lane… And I saw the boss doing its point blank AoE attack…

…With no player around him.

The bosses follow a script. They do not react to players – they would do the same attacks, move to the same places and do the same things, no matter if there’s no player around, or if there’s a massive zerg attacking from range, or if everyone is clustered in a melee range around the boss.

Even the level 2 bandits we fight in Queensdale are smarter than that. They’re not standing still shooting in random directions, just in case a player goes within range and happens to be within the path of a shot. No, they reach when we get close, they used to be able to even dodge our attacks, and so on.

I’m sure ArenaNet decided to make the bosses as static as they are for the sake of efficiency. But keeping basically the same design after all those YEARS feels like, well, laziness. They could have made the boss fights smarter, but in the end they all are about DPSing the boss as fast as you can.

Vayne.8563:

This is the most flawed logic I’ve seen in a long time. It can be applied to anything. The playerbase is a collection of individuals and some individuals think the game is too hard, so we should make the game easier.

Vayne, Vayne. That kind of empty hyperbole is below you.

Releasing information is not a matter of “if I do this I will please a group and annoy the other”, unlike what making the game harder or easier would be. In fact, releasing information instead of not saying anything – like ArenaNet is doing right now – is simply better for everyone in the community.

And of course Weirwynn’s point is correct. The community is a collection of individuals, so ArenaNet has to release information about different aspects of the game in order to keep players with different interests hyped about HoT.

Or are you saying that ArenaNet should only talk about PvP, and ignore the PvE players? Because that’s pretty much what your point boils down to – that it would be ok for ArenaNet to focus exclusively on one aspect of the player community, and ignore all the others.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Test.8734:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Or does one have to pay for anything belonging to the expansion.

That’s like saying the latest patch was part of HoT, despite how those who haven’t bought the expansion got access to all the changes in it. Content that is available to everyone, no matter if someone has the expansion or not, is rather obviously something that does not belong to the expansion itself.

Hmm…I wonder what all the content we got after the core game’s release belongs to then. Certainly not the core game, then. Or this only applies to expansions? Where does Living Story lie then?

It’s all so mind-boggling. /smh

Don’t worry, the Logic Brigade is here to help you.

Can you play the content we got after the core game’s release without having the core game? No? Right then.

Do you need to get anything more than the core game to play through the content we got after the core game’s release? No? Right then.

So, as one can rather obviously see, the content we got after the core game’s release, which just happens to require ownership of the core game and nothing else, is part of the core game.

Unless you think the Living World season 1 was part of HoT, the same applies to the incoming changes to WvW and PvP – the requirement for accessing those is exactly the same as the requirement for most major updates so far. Ergo, and rather obviously too, the incoming changes to WvW and PvP are part of the core game, not part of HoT.

Would you like a chart, too? I guess I can make one that looks like a bunch of small cats.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Or does one have to pay for anything belonging to the expansion.

That’s like saying the latest patch was part of HoT, despite how those who haven’t bought the expansion got access to all the changes in it. Content that is available to everyone, no matter if someone has the expansion or not, is rather obviously something that does not belong to the expansion itself.

Swizzle.7982:

This is the current status of the hype train.

http://i.imgur.com/J20iw.jpg

Hype level: Half-life 3.

Blame everyone who prepurchased. ArenaNet already got their money, no reason to hype people now.

Ayrilana.1396:

Please read the posts again. Seriously.

In other words, he’s right and you cannot present any argument showing how he would be wrong.

Do you have any idea of how ridiculous your example sounds? “Hey guys, ArenaNet said they would release feature X in 2013, but they told us in 2014 that it would be a little late…” Oh really?

You are only proving my point (again). Thanks for finding a link that proves how ArenaNet likes to change their minds, so we cannot believe their current promises about future HoT content.

Vayne.8563:

Do you know, can anyone really know, that when Anet wrote that blogpost it wasn’t supposed to be a free feature?

So, if ArenaNet does not fulfill any of their current promises about post-HoT content, are you just going to say “can anyone really know, that when Anet made those promises, they weren’t supposed to be implemented”?

Because, really, if your point is that ArenaNet will often change their minds so something they say they would do one way is either not done or done in a completelly different way, you are just proving my point, Vayne.

Vayne.8563:

Or you could play Archeage or SWToR, with their “optional” subscription. I know people who play SWToR but I know of no one who plays it who don’t sub to it, because you know, that optional sub…it’s not really so optional when you start playing.

They can play the game, arguably as well as someone who plays GW2 without ever using the Gem Store.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t isolate the box price of an expansion from the rest of what I have to pay to play a game, because you know, that’s not really honest.

Really? Because that comparison is really weak when talking about expansions. In FFXIV, playing the core game requires the monthly fee; buying the expansion (which, for the records, is cheaper than HoT) does not add anything to the fee, ergo the fee isn’t a factor when considering the price of of the expansion. To say otherwise is the same as saying that the price of gems should be added to the price of HoT, since the gem store is ArenaNet’s equivalent of monthly fees.

Ergo, yes, it’s rather reasonable to compare the price of HoT with the price of an expansion for a P2P MMORPG. And when you consider the amount of content… As far as we know, HoT looks like a DLC in comparison.

Ayrilana.1396:

(or in your perceived view: 1 of 1 is 100%).

I’m curious to know how does math work in the alternate reality you live in, for 1 of 1 to not be 100%.

And really, again you are talking without doing research. If you knew what you were talking about, you would have linked the post you claim to exist from 2014, as well as the other updates you claim ArenaNet has used to tell people about their (broken) promises. Right now, all you have is a loveable pile of small cats.

Ayrilana.1396:

Anet did promise those things and they did deliver on them.

Not really, as many, MANY examples prove.

Many times they made a promise and just left it hanging.

How could we possibly believe when they say they will add more legendary weapons later on? Until now, all – actually 100% – of their promises about more legendary items have not been true.

Vayne.8563:

The funny part is that people ignore the fact that this is in line price wise with other MMO expansions (not equal to, but in line)

Not really. It’s more expensive than expansions from almost all MMORPGs (with WoW being the main exception, but then again Blizzard has always charged high prices).

And besides, based on the content we know is in HoT, it looks more like a DLC than a full expansion.

Vayne.8563:

that we don’t have all the information yet

We have all information ArenaNet thought we needed to prepurchase the game. Ignoring the ethics in asking for payment for a product that doesn’t even have a release window (much less a release date), I wouldn’t be surprised if the information we don’t know yet includes a lot of bad things (like the NPE).

Vayne.8563:

and that the entire game has pretty much been redesigned. It will be a whole new experience

Not really. The levelling experience is going to stay basically the same. It won’t be a few new skills that would make it “a whole new experience”. Same with playing through the content that is already in the game, like the current level 80 areas, or the current dungeons, and so on.

If anything, what we have been told about the HoT maps make them look a lot like more of the same.

Vayne.8563:

But it’s valid to believe that I’m going to get more than 100 hours out of this game, which makes it a better deal than most games I’ve bought.

As you like to say, Vayne, that’s just your opinion. And your opinion isn’t really enough to make a meaningful argument when having a discussion with other people.

Ayrilana.1396:

Funny because you did. You only brought up the archery mini-game in a single sentence.

So you completely failed to understand what I wrote. Wow. And you still think you can argue about it.

But I actually have to thank you. You have basically proved my point in this topic – by the examples you have, it’s clear that just because ArenaNet says they will add something to the game, it doesn’t mean they will actually do it. Ergo, all the talk about features they say they will add in the future… Is meaningless. All we can be sure in HoT is what we get at release, or at least the little it looks like HoT will have at release.

Vayne.8563:

Sometimes I think this community is its own worst enemy.

Let’s be honest, Vayne. ArenaNet is this community’s worst enemy.

Just look at how they dealt with the WvW beta test: players deserve to be able to join, especially those who prepurchased. Given how ArenaNet asked people to pay them for an expansion without a release date in order to be able to join betas with unknown dates, the minimum – really, the bare minimum – ArenaNet should do is allow those players to join the WvW beta.

And really, the excuse of “they are not going to be able to fit many players in there” is a very poor argument. If they are making a WvW map that cannot hold even a small fraction of the current players, well, they are basically wasting their time.

Kahrgan.7401:

We have waited, boarded the hype train, and the hype train is slowing to a halt. Many of us have pre-ordered with no release date, and half of the expansions information is not even there.

See, it’s pretty much your fault.

ArenaNet hyped the game so people would be interested and then buy it.

You, in other hand, already bought it. What need is there for hype when players have already given ArenaNet their money?

The best thing you can do to make ArenaNet power up the hype machine is to ask for a refund.

Ayrilana.1396:

This was posted in July 2013 which was well into the year and just barely a year after the game was released. It disproves your exaggerated claim that they announced the items in the blog when the game was released.

Funny, because I never said the features in the blog were promised at release. In fact, I specifically mentioned the minigames as a feature promised during release, and then talked about the things ArenaNet promised in 2013 by linking the blog. I’m amazed you managed to misunderstand that so completely.

I guess that, before replying to someone’s argument, know what it is that they are saying first. Thanks.

Ayrilana.1396:

• Living World and the Two-Week Schedule
• Progression Advancement
  • New Skill and Traits
  • Rewards
  • Champion Rewards
  • Dungeon Complete Bonus Rewards
  • New Crafting Material Rewards
  • Account Magic Find
  • Salvaging Fine and Masterwork Items
• Crafting Taken to 500
• Legendary Gear and Precursors
• World vs. World (replacement of orb, etc)
• Looking for Group (LFG) tool

• Two-week schedule was often interrupted with breaks. See the current, six month long break as a nice example.

• The blog mentions “We’ll begin regularly adding new skills and traits to the game for each profession”, which never happened. They added one new profession skill, one new trait per line, and thatw as it. No “regularly” added new skills.

• “Crafting Taken to 500”? How about Jeweler and Chef? Oh wait, those are still stuck at 400!

• “Legendary Gear and Precursors”? Not only they didn’t add the new legendary weapons they said they would have during 2013, they also didn’t add the promised " new types of legendary gear", nor did they add the alternate way to make precursors.

Not to mention the things from that blog you “forgot” to mention (a new and optional tutorial area, new story steps at low levels, and so on and so on) that were never added to the game.

Ayrilana.1396:

How many of these made it into the game? The majority did although some are debatable as to how successful they actually were such as for WvW.

So you’re proving my point that many of the things ArenaNet promised were not implemented in game (not in the timeframe ArenaNet claimed they would be added, neither until today). And you’re also adding that many of the things they did add actually failed (see WvW).

So yep, people have a lot of reasons to fear ArenaNet’s current promises about the content they plan to add to HoT. The only content we can be sure of is the content the expansion will have at release… And it looks like it will be a rather incomplete release at that.

Kite.2510:

The original Personal Story is, and will be, the initial experience 99% of the new players, for the expansions to come!

ArenaNet is not going to fix the old PS. They barely have resources to make new content (see everyone complaining about how HoT looks like it will only have a couple maps), much less to fix old content.

It would be better if they just hide the PS so most new players won’t even find it. Remove the content tracker about it and make the first step unlockable only at level 10, without telling players about it. Then the great majority of new players would be spared playing through the PS.

Ayrilana.1396:

So you cherry picked the few items that they couldn’t bring either entirely or partially while ignoring everything else they they were able to? Also, that article happened well have the release of the core game.

Oh? Are you going to cherry pick the few items that they could bring while ignoring everything else they they were not able to?

Because even if you did, you would still be proving my point – the only part of HoT we know we will get for sure is what the game has at release. Everything else ArenaNet promises may simply not happen, just like some of the things they talked about before never happened as well.

Basandra Skye.4031:

Finally, dont use hyperbole or exaggeration as the basis of a standpoint. It topples pretty easily.

Hyperbole or exaggeration like…

Basandra Skye.4031:

Entirely picking apart the combat system coding. All of it. I’m not even going to begin to guess how many lines that would be.

… That? I agree, it looks rather ridiculous.

Basandra Skye.4031:

As for the other one, are you sure it’s even a bug? Or is it a “I can only range with a target and cant hit the crit spot so it must be a bug” bug?

It’s a “people who actually pay attention and know what they’re talking about know it’s a bug” bug.

Finally, dont use kitten as the basis of a standpoint. It topples pretty easily.

Kitsune.1902:

In this case releasing HoT ‘incomplete’ is a good thing, because it just means you get access to part of the content sooner – rather than getting it all at once, but at later time.

Yeah…No.

When the core GW2 was released, did ArenaNet said there were more things they had intended to add at release that they would add to the game soon after? Yep.

Did they actually add those things? Nope. See the firing range minigame at Divinity’s Reach.

Let’s look back at what ArenaNet had said they would add to the game in 2013? You can see they said,

• “On top of this, you’ll also see new legendary weapons and new types of legendary gear in 2013”

• “we’re building a new comprehensive “level zero” optional tutorial that teaches the core basics of the game. We’re also adding new story steps at levels 5 and 10 to help better teach core mechanics as players grow”

• That they would increase ALL crafting professions to 500, including jewelry and cooking.

• And so on, and so on.

Did ArenaNet add those things? Nope.

What we get when HoT is released is everything we know we will get for sure. Everything else ArenaNet claims they will eventually add one day to the game… Is just a promise. And it wouldn’t be the first or the last time ArenaNet makes a promise they are not going to keep.

The less content we get with the HoT release, the more incomplete it is, the less we will have in the long run.

MauricioCezar.2673:

Will HoT Be released incomplete?

Yes.

ArenaNet needs the money now, not when HoT will be complete. They will release the game with bugs and lacking content, with a vague promise to add more “some day”.

Ayrilana.1396:

So anytime a game releases additional related content outside of an expansion, or the game itself, then that makes it not complete?

Not really. But whenever people accept subpar releases, it only makes it clear for developers that they can have very low standards and some players will still follow them.

MauricioCezar.2673:

But okay, If community is fine with this, let it be , I already bought the xpac anyway.

That was your mistake. If you are worried that the release will be incomplete, that it’s a hushed product, that it will have less content than it should have for its price… By buying it already, you are only telling ArenaNet and other developers that you agree with and accept all the things you are worrying about.

Silverkey.2078:

Do we want underwater combat (UC)?

Nope.

Let’s be honest – we know ArenaNet is starved for resources. There are too many examples of this to count, but the latest is how it took them a week to deal with a game-breaking exploit, and their answer was to remove content from the game, not to fix the exploit. Meanwhile, a literally massive bug (the wrong crit areas in the world bosses) has been left to rot.

Now, underwater combat is broken. It’s not a matter of simply adding more – ArenaNet would have to fix a large amount of bugs, including dealing with the Z axis and with the way enemies are reset, in order to make underwater combat even half decent.

Is it worth it? Nope. It would take more resources than ArenaNet has, to fix something that wouldn’t be that fun anyway.

I agree with a poster above – I wish they would just remove underwater combat from the game, while keeping underwater exploration. Remove underwater skills (use the same skill bar interface as when we’re swimming in the surface of the water), remove all underwater enemies (often they’re just the same enemies we fight on land anyway, see Orr), and just let us explore down there in peace. It would be simpler for ArenaNet and better for the players.

Ayrilana.1396:

Um… wow. Based on your mangling of my argument to twist it as your own, you had no idea what I was talking about.

Ah, that explains why you were trying to mangle my argument about GW2’s poor performance. You would have saved yourself a lot of work if you had just admitted you had no idea what I was talking about.

Ayrilana.1396:

What I was arguing about was your lack of understanding about the financials such as assuming royalties were part of that sales chart for the GW2 trend (which you also mislabeled as being profit) when there was no indication that it was so and could have been part of the Other trend line.

Ah, so now you are claiming that, in your making-believe scenario, the royalties are part of the “Other” earnings? So you still haven’t bothered to go take a look yourself, and yet you are trying to talk about something you admit you haven’t seen? Right.

Really, you are trying to dance around the issue. GW2’s earnings have fallen, almost continually since release. The China release was very weak. Between both of those, it’s little surprise they are not overpricing HoT, in order to make up for the loss in earnings since release. It may be a good solution for them, but not for us.

Ayrilana.1396:

I don’t think you understand financial/earnings statements and how things are classified. All you’ve shown is that you know how to post links. You haven’t shown you understand what they contain. This is definitely true since you confused sales with profits. There’s a big difference from direct sales and income from royalties.

I don’t think you understand financial/earnings statements and how things are classified. You haven’t even shown that you know where to find them. You haven’t shown you have read them. This is definitely true since you confused sales of the core game with global earnings. There’s a big difference from sales of the core game and global earnings.

Not to mention how you have avoided the main facts here: China release = failure. GW2 profits until HoT = falling. Those are the undeniable truths you have been dancing around because you cannot accept they are true, but you also cannot deny thet are facts.

Ayrilana.1396:

From what I read, the Chinese company is doing all of the sales and NCSOFT gets royalties. Royalties are not reported as sales or at least not for GW2. They’re likely reported as other income or something of the like.

Tell me, is it sunny in the park today?

Because I don’t think you understand what being a public trade company means. NCSoft’s earnings and numbers are available online, which makes all your guessing and making-believe irrelevant – those who actually know what they’re talking about can just look and see for themselves.

There is no way around it – the China release was a failure. That is a fact. GW2’s earnings, including the entire income from gem sales, have been falling prior HoT, and the Living Story didn’t prevent it – that is a fact.

Now, would you need me to link you more evidence, or are you willing to simply accept the facts?

moiraine.2753:

Also don’t blame the playerbase for exploiting something when it si obvious that Anet have to be blamed for allowing such thing in a 1st place.

I have seen people in-game claiming TxS is using the exploit themselves.

Between that and this:

moiraine.2753:

If there is an exploit and Anet are not doing anything about it then the kill is counted as a legit.Teq is beaten fairly.

I wonder what happened to the whole “Get gud n00bs, we pr0 love a challenge!” speech. Under this exploit, killing Teq is easier than it was before its HP got doubled.

Name.9128:

I don’t get why people are complaining about the amount of info we have on HoT.

People are not complaining about the amount of info we have on HoT.

People are complaining that it appears to be an overpriced expansion with very little content and stinking like a grind cesspool.

The answer to that criticism has been “it only looks like HoT has very little content because we haven’t been told a lot about HoT”. That’s why you think the complain has been about the information.

ArenaNet is already trying to make their sale. Right now is most likely the moment when more people would buy the expansion – before HoT itself is released and people begin listing all the flaws it will obviously have. Even then, though, ArenaNet still avoids mentioning how much content the expansion will have. That is, by itself, an admission of guilt.

Ayrilana.1396:

Test.8734:

VOLKON.1290:

It’s not like ANet didn’t go an extended period of time before announcing numbers here in the U.S. either. Some 3.8 million sales out of the gate in China isn’t exactly a failure.

The numbers are fake.

In truth, GW2 underperformed.

In fact, GW2’s failure has been reiterated, even.

Soon the server merges began.

Meanwhile, GW2’s profits kep falling, despite the China release.

F-A-I-L-U-R-E.

I wonder if your “ten new professions” (LOOOOOOOOOOL) will be enough to make HoT a success. Otherwise, the future wouldn’t exactly be bright for ArenaNet.

Last link is for sales and it’s expected for sales to decline after initial release.

It’s cute when people think that business is like kids playing in the park. Those numbers come from NCSoft’s quarterly reports, which list GW2’s earnings (rather obviously in full, not only the sales of the game itself). Given how NCSoft is a publicly traded company, they can’t hide their numbers; and it’s very much laughable to think that they would hide their profits, anyway, when showing results to their investors.

GW2’s earnings are just that. It’s already taking in consideration gem sales, game sales and everything else you would like to mention. Yes, the game is earning less than a MMORPG released in 1998. No, there is no way to call it other than a failure. And you can go see by yourself, the numbers are freely available.

VOLKON.1290:

It’s not like ANet didn’t go an extended period of time before announcing numbers here in the U.S. either. Some 3.8 million sales out of the gate in China isn’t exactly a failure.

The numbers are fake.

In truth, GW2 underperformed.

In fact, GW2’s failure has been reiterated, even.

Soon the server merges began.

Meanwhile, GW2’s profits kep falling, despite the China release.

F-A-I-L-U-R-E.

I wonder if your “ten new professions” (LOOOOOOOOOOL) will be enough to make HoT a success. Otherwise, the future wouldn’t exactly be bright for ArenaNet.