Retaliation should be changed to Toughness-dependant percentile damage.
Placeholder formula would be a simple 5 + ( 0.01 * Toughness ) % as damage reflected.
The only problem here is that it wouldn’t be very effective at lower levels, but the formula can be modified to correct that.
Revolutionary new idea: Stealth becomes a boon.
Having a running thread by Anet that only they can post in on each forum to keep the community updated on ideas, whats being looked at, whats been fixed internally and waiting to go live etc would be nice.
That is one of the reasons I started that thread in SPvP. Communication, plans for future balance patches, metas they like or don’t like, we could really use that…
In this very thread we posted a stun break with <30s cooldown, and yet you still stubbornly maintain that your access to stun breakers is limited to 30+ second CD sub-par skills.
And you still haven’t posted your build.
Yeah, this conversation is useless.
Post your build right now or forever hold your peace.
Ahahahahaaaa! Clearly, using one utility slot to get both a stun break and stability is a sub par build.
How do… how does a brain like that function? “Oh, stun breaks and stability are super powerful, I wish I had more of it… but I can’t be bothered to actually take the one skill that has both because I’m used to the way things are right now. Can I get some freebies?”
OK, so how about this:
Chilled – Cooldown increased by 50% + 2 seconds instead of 66%.
Those panties still bunched up?
Mantra of Concentration is 2 stabilities and stun breaks on a 25s cooldown. Three on a 20s cooldown if traited.
I hate doing this, but I really need to use the l2p argument right now…
Your stun break is on a 30+ second cooldown!? BY GOLLY, BATMAN, THAT IS OUTRAGEOUS! That must be the longest cooldown on any stun break in the entire game!!! How do you manage to put up with that nonsense? I would have quit the game months ago if my class had stun breaks on a 30+ second cooldown…
/sarcasm
No, but those two classes have … cooldowns.
It has been brought up before. Thieves got their panties in a bunch, so it stopped being brought up at all.
Churning Earth has a huge area of effect, eight bleeds, good up-front damage, a cripple, and is on the same weapon in the same element that offers an area-effect knockdown with a duration similar to the wind-up time.
Churning Earth has a huge area of effect, eight bleeds, good up-front damage, a cripple, and is on the same weapon in the same element that offers an area-effect knockdown with a duration similar to the wind-up time.
If it’s to be power-based, it really should trade places with Dhuumfire.
So now, all of a sudden, the condition necromancer has spike damage beyond what dhuumfire offers?
Yes, necro chain CC is a problem, I agree with that. But that chain CC move is still on a longer total cooldown than other chain CCs methods, and the “spike” damage is not as abrupt, is cleansable, requires build-up, etc.
The CD is not 6s but 7, and you get it from Near to Death.
As a sole trait looked at in isolation, it is rather good: ~40% stability uptime for as long as you can generate life force… But it is very deep in an unpopular tree that offers very little focused benefits.
Not every necro has chain fear. So that doesn’t count.
Appreciate your feedback, but many of the things you are claiming are simply not true.
Thanks for the reply, but… what exactly am I claiming that isn’t true?
Prior to the 25 June update, necromancers were asking for an improvement in their survivability, and possibly a sort of small cover condition.
We were given burning.
After the patch, necromancers were worried that burning was too much up-front damage, so they started asking ArenaNet to take it away and replace it with the newly introduced condition, torment.
The PvP community realized what necromancers were worried about, and started to use terror/dhuumfire builds which, coupled with the new spectral wall, enabled the necromancers to pile on conditions and execute a ~5 second CC with a continuous damage component.
In response to that, the necromancer community was ignored, and terror was nerfed.
Necromancers continued to voice their disapproval, and they were still being ignored. PvPers continued to voice their disapproval, and within 24 hours, a thread made by a well known PvP player who has pretty much zero experience with actually playing the class, and absolutely no experience with playing the class outside the terror/dhuumfire build, caused the devs to comment, and introduce a hotfix, destroying dhuumfire for PvP. This is the first PvP-only fix in the sequence. The other nerfs, such as terror and death shroud single-hit tanking potential, were not reverted.
The devs then assure the PvP community that more permanent changes are upcoming. The devs still continue to make absolutely no comments in the necromancer subforum. All of the balance communication that affects all aspects of the game in 99% of the cases is still limited to the PvP subforum.
What exactly do I claim here that is not true?
Silly Necro, escapes are for other classes.
I also wanted to reply in your thread with some comments, but then balance happened, so I kinda gave up.
I actually wasn’t talking about you, but about said thread. In 24 hours, that thread generated more dev comments and actual balance changes than the entire Necromancer subforum has in a year. THAT is what I am disgusted by.
…randomly applied, low cooldown, potent CC?
No. That is a very, very bad idea.
The part he’s talking about is heal reduction. Are you quite sure that bit is working right?
I like Signet of Spite, too.
I don’t understand Signet of Spite. Never did.
Tooltip: Hey, this thing increases your power!
Player: Awesome!
Tooltip: It also applies a boatload of conditions!
Player: Aweso-, wait, what?
I get the vulnerability/cripple/weakness combo, and I can see the potential as a stack of short-duration cover conditions, but… why Power, of all things?
Oh, please don’t start calling people incompetent. I want to have a constructive communication-and-interaction-with-playerbase discussion here.
I do understand that the devs have a lot on their plates and that some changes are more difficult to implement than others, but I still think a knee-jerk nerf in response to a single thread is an overreaction… and it isn’t the first one either.
We could really use some more tangible communication here. Some sort of “yeah, we’ve seen your thread, we don’t think that’s OP” or “yeah, that’s actually a bug, it’s getting fixed soon” or “that just might be a bit too much, we’ll take a look” response that is both timely AND not made mere hours before a hotfix.
That thing we have with the looking ahead content updates? Yeah, we need those, but for balance.
I really don’t understand you. To me, your argument reads like
“Gah! The enemy is attacking me! First I dodged, then I had protection, then I used aegis, then I threw out blind, then I dodged again, then I activated my heal, then I got vigor, then I took a bath in a water field, then I dodged yet again, then I blinded him again, BUT MY HEALTH IS STILL NOT 100%!!! WTF, ANET!?”
Do people realistically expect to have defensive counters that outperform the offenses they are supposed to mitigate?
Yeah, all hardcore players should stop crying.
This meta is the worst ever18k backstab meta.
IWAY.
Undead runes and Rabid gear is SWEET on a condition spec.
..umm… Kill the guy attacking you, because conditions take ages to work? Don’t blow your removal on low stacks or fillers? Dodge every once in a blue moon? I don’t know; adapt!
I think Dhuumfire is still worth it, mostly because nothing else in our trees is really that great.
We do have way too many trash traits. The fact that reanimator still hasn’t been addressed is just baffling.
I am still baffled why PvP necros haven’t cried out that they can’t use their heal/utility/elite for a second or two after Death Shroud is depleted and they are reverted back to normal. Game breaking!
We’ve been crying about that for almost a year now. After a time, you just learn to live with the Thieves, the Guardians, and the bugs.
So yeah, this is about the Necromancer.
The Necromancer forum has had a year to mention, document, classify and categorize each and every bug that the class is plagued by. We have pages upon pages of discussion on where we would like our class to go, what we are lacking, and what we are supposed to be lacking. It has taken the developers ten months to fix downed state HP. Countless other bugs are still in the game, but you know, we suffer.
And we have had pages upon pages of cries that certain tools of other classes are OP at either dealing damage through all of our defensive options, or just shrugging all of our damage away like nothing. No reply from the dev team on those, tons of “l2p” responses from the players of said classes. So what do we do? We adapt. We try and learn what works against what. We stop using pure condition builds, we get some fear in the mix, some spectral skills, so we get an illusion of a level playing field.
So after ten months of a bug fix here, a failed bug fix there, a feature changed here, a bit of nonsense removed there, we finally get the biggest buff ever: the Dhuumfire patch. Nobody wanted that. No necromancer worth his bones has ever wished for a spike condition such as burning. But there we got it, so we were supposed to eat it raw. What happened next? The things that have been balanced for almost a year are suddenly OP. Terror gets nerfed in the following patch. We get some more ease-of-use fixes, and then our Death Shroud takes the biggest hit ever. The two nerfs combined far outweigh the Dhuumfire buff.
And what happens then? A supposedly experienced PvP Guardian with literally twelve hours of experience playing a Necromancer using a single, currently popular build, opens up a topic in the almighty SPvP subforum and… Within twenty four hours, Dhuumfire gets nerfed. Hard. Base value reduced by 50%, with an effective nerf of up to 66%. Nothing was given back to compensate for this. We have been asking for either filler conditions or survivability increase for months; we got Burning instead. And now, Burning has been taken away. Because a Guardian PvP player opened a topic in the SPvP subforum, and a dev happened to walk by.
I hope you understand how I, as a Necromancer main, am somewhat disgusted by this.
Just tested Dhuumfire in the Mists, its duration is still 4 seconds (+ any condition duration bonuses via gear / the 30% from going 30 in Spite).
Is the patch applied yet? Because it seems as though nothing has changed.
The mists themselves aren’t a PvP zone, none of the split things so far work as their PvP versions…
Well, none as far as I know.
…so the only result of a “constructive” thread is a nerf?
Great.
Everyone likes to assume that every fight starts with 2 dodges and 1-2 stun breakers available because it supports their L2P “arguments.” That’s simply not the case in actual game play.
It is also common knowledge that the elite is ready to be used, and the Necromancer’s Death Shroud is full.
Sorry, should have said “same number of things with the same total popularity”, but I didn’t know you’d nitpick at it like that.
Also, blocks and evades totally counter condition damage. Can’t land a hit = can’t apply the condition.
But seriously, you people don’t seem to understand just what condition removal DOES to a condition build. You honestly think there should be MORE condition removal going around? Wow…
Damage is easier to heal against than conditions anyway.
WHAT!?
Mbuahahahaha!
I’m sorry, man, but… seriously? POISON is the thing you’re complaining about?
Let me get this straight:
Condition damage is countered by all the things that counter power damage, but with the addition of condition removal… and yet somehow, having MORE options to deal with something makes it… harder to deal with it?
I don’t think I quite follow your logic.
So… you think that you’re supposed to be condition-free all the time?
Oh look, there’s a wall I haven’t banged my head against for a while!
goes off to bang head against wall
If they don’t remove Dhuumfire or replace Burning with near-total uptime Torment, I’ll have to go find another wall to bang my head against.
I think this tournament will be very popcorn-worthy.
Every one of my posts.
Is it possible to report someone for telling lies on a forum?
DS scales with Vit… but you gain DS in percentages, you lose DS naturally in percentages, and the damage you take while in DS goes through your armor first…
They should add double-right-click to equip into offhand or, for two-handed weapons, switch set.
But they really, REALLY need to remove weapon switch in ALL forms of PvP as soon as you enter the map.
ya but I am a necro and am squishy so I need toughness 2, its what all the forums are saying lol
Toughness is a MUCH better stat on a Necro than Vitality is.
Yeah, they purposely left out certain combinations of stats on those amulets for balance reasons. Same reason you don’t see a Toughness, Vitality, Healing Power amulet (my dream bunker Guard amulet, lol).
And I think that is kittenbull. Some insanely effective stat combos are legit, but god forbid a condition damage component works with vitality and toughness… you know, the things that buy time so that conditions actually do their things.
Funny how you main Guardian, yet post no Guardian changes, but are too eager to destroy the literally only build that necromancers and rangers have right now. Here, let me go into greater detail.
- Dhuumfire:
This one I actually kinda agree with, in principle. Torment should replace burning. However, I think a single stack as a cover is much better than two stacks with limited uptime. Reasons: covers the valuable conditions, deals less up-front damage, is less at the mercy of RNG and triggering when you don’t want it. 3s single stack Torment on a 3s cooldown, or something like that sounds great.
- Terror:
Terror moved up? Maybe, I can probably live with that, but it would be a huge kick in the nuts for more tanky X.20.X.X.30 builds.
- Enfeebling Blood and Weakening Shroud:
No. Wait, let me try that again. Hell no. Not until the Necromancer gets tons of aegis, protection, evasion, vigor, etc. If you think this is a good idea, you really need a reality check. Also, what ease of application? Long cast time, distinctive casting animation, long-ish cooldown, easily avoidable.
- Elixir R:
“This skill does what it’s supposed to do, and I don’t like that.” Yeah, because wasting a slot on a questionably effective ally/self-rez is always a good idea.
- Spirits:
“Rangers now still have an effective build, even after the last nerfs, and I don’t like that.” Moving right along…
- Shadow Trap:
The duration isn’t the problem here, the range is. Reduce range to something like four thousand, otherwise the change has absolutely no effect.
- Infiltrator’s Strike:
Remove the effectively-stunbreak behavior of Shadow Return? I can see that work. However, this still leaves the thief with an incredibly useful tool for both engaging and disengaging. Tools that the thief has plenty of. The thief will never be balanced if he gets to keep both the current stealth mechanic AND his mobility/disengage options. Unless they decide to nerf the damage and destroy the class completely…
Consistency, dude. Before you respond, please take a good long look at how cooldowns behave when you try to cast something and you’re not facing a target, you have dropped the target, or you have been interrupted.
Just another thing piled onto the stupid pile regarding the skill use in the game.
You play a thief, right?
Hey all, just wanted to let you know that we’re watching this thread closely.
We are doomed.
3s torment, on-hit chance, 1s internal cooldown.
Needs to happen.
The 4s burning every 10s in a 0 condition damage or condition duration build will easily outdo the % damage increase of the alternative, thanks to the burning condition’s rather neat level scaling.
Huh? What?
Please explain your last statement, I’m not a mental acrobat so I can’t make out what you wanted to say…