nicknamenick.2437
5 Longbow – this is the most suitable skill for example.
Thief – Death blossom – 5k+ spamable AOE condition damage.
Ranger – Throw Torch 4.5k+
Necromancer – Mark of Blood – 4k AOE
etkWhere THE HELL are you getting those numbers from!? Mark of Blood doesn’t get close to 4k damage, even in a rabid/undead/corruption-maxed-out build with 25 stacks of might.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQFAGmAgeAAAAEpgYAoUAAAA-TgAAzCpIKS9l7LTRyvsfB
With other rune and 5 might – 5k easy
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQFAWiQ6JAoHAAAARKIGAKFAAAA-TkAAzCpImRBjDGzMSfs+MCA
Yeah, sure, go ahead, stack those durations and don’t take enfeebling shroud.
Lol.
Maybe I should, from now on, preface all my comments with “in a realistically viable build that one may actually encounter”.
OK, my most recent test:
Method of testing: Chieftain Utahein has a pretty consistent damage output, his main attack hits me for between 2100 and 2500 damage. After six tests, two of which were disregarded because they ended with a Kick or a crit, I tallied up the damage and the time required to do it in order to add the 4%/s degeneration ticks.
The base 80 necromancer in armor with irrelevant runes and no amulet has 18372 health and 1836 armor. Damage required to throw me out of DS, when added to the 740 damage per second degeneration, was 18512 at the lowest end, 19124 at the highest. Since neither of those is close to the number 22046, as expected for a 120% HP-to-DS ratio, or 11023 expected for 60% or 120-with-double-damage, nor did the combat log or death tally indicate double damage taken, I can only conclude that the base DS with no traits is 100% our HP.
nicknamenick.2437
5 Longbow – this is the most suitable skill for example.
Thief – Death blossom – 5k+ spamable AOE condition damage.
Ranger – Throw Torch 4.5k+
Necromancer – Mark of Blood – 4k AOE
etk
Where THE HELL are you getting those numbers from!? Mark of Blood doesn’t get close to 4k damage, even in a rabid/undead/corruption-maxed-out build with 25 stacks of might.
Did a few quick tests just now.
Turns out I was wrong.
But it turns out you were wrong too.
DS is, unmodified, 100% our base HP.
Method of testing: Chieftain Utahein has a pretty consistent damage output, his main attack hits me for between 2100 and 2500 damage. After six tests, two of which were disregarded because they ended with a Kick or a crit, I tallied up the damage and the time required to do it in order to add the 4%/s degeneration ticks.
The base 80 necromancer in naked armor and no amulet has 18372 health and 1836 armor. Damage required to throw me out of DS was 18512 at the lowest end, 19124 at the highest. Since neither of those is close to the number 22046, as expected for a 120% HP-to-DS ratio, or 11023 expected for 60% or 120-with-double-damage, nor did the combat log or death tally indicate double damage taken, I can only conclude that the base DS with no traits is 100% our HP.
And many necromancers say 120% with double damage. And some still say 60% base.
They have tested it.
And you just bla bla bla.
This doesn’t seem hard to understand, I’m not sure why people have such difficulty with it.
IF you are a good player stuck in the wrong bracket, your team has a good player and 4 bad players. The other team has 5 bad players. Your team is more likely to win. Your rating rises. That’s it in a nutshell.
Luck does play a larger part, as if you get a 4v5 it can snowball into 3v5, and even the best player will have a hard time with that. However, even if you only win one extra game in fifty, you will still go up in the ratings, it’s just going to take you a lot of games to climb out of the bracket with such a poor percentage.
If you’re in a bracket where people are really bad in comparison to you, you will win more than one extra game in fifty, and it won’t take you as long to climb out. Due to the increased randomness of afks and quitters, it can still take a while though. It can feel like eternity, because it’s no fun being let down by your team at every turn.
It has been proven that in the Elo system that League of Legends used (and since Anet has not disclosed the details of their own, it’s safe to assume it’s pretty similar for now) that people that are merely above average (actual Elo in the 1350 to 1550 range) will have a HELL of a time if they tank their Elo down to 500 or so, and try to rise up. By hell of a time, I mean that it will be consistently hard to get actually meaningful matches (ones with no rager, intentional feeder, leaver, team bickering, etc.) won. The randomness factor is just too huge. Sure, they will rise from 500 to their true rank eventually, but it will take approximately a thousand games to do this.
People that are 1600+ will do it much faster, as they can literally carry bads almost effortlessly, and their mere presence (score, plays) is often enough to rally noobs.
You don’t take double damage from conditions, only power attacks. I also think retaliation damage is not doubled, but I could be wrong about that.
But how can you say 120% is 120% if you consistently take double damage from attacks? It’s pretty definitely not 120% effective HP…
Do some duration tests in the mists with a full LF; it should take a consistent attacker the same amount of time to burn through your health as he would through your LF (thanks to defeneration) if the LF was truly 120% of your health and you didn’t take double damage.
Also, DS, lol. 60% extra HP with a utility-less skill bar.
No. 120%
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/DeathShroud-is-now-base-100-HP/firstCarrion necromancer have 25k hp+ 30 ds. 55k hp. Need more?
Rabid 18k hp + 22k ds. 40k hp 2500 armor.
120% while taking double damage = 60%. Nice try, though.
A necro that wastes all three (yes, three, not four) of his fears on defense will not have them for offense, and vice versa.
Also, DS, lol. 60% extra HP with a utility-less skill bar. Remember the part about necro not having vigor, blocks, invulnerability, evades, etc?
Yeah, you kinda have a raw deal here in the current meta. Ele has the option to go 0/0/10/30/30 and laugh in the face of condition builds, but that will only result in stalemates against a necro.
What you should be doing is asking for buffs to your stuff, not nerfs to other classes that are actually balanced and perform a role in the current meta; it’s not their fault people still cling to their precious builds for six months ago.
Just for fun, what’s your main class?
30 points into a traitline that only offers you the line’s own 30% condition duration bonus.
Bigest problem isn’t the classes listed, the problem is that they alsmot all relieve on a stupid spec “easy” to play or only spam. This game needs a higher skillcap.
Naturally, every build that isn’t your own is always “stupid easy spamfest”.
Shame so very few choose to listen to him, or even debate the points he brings up. All of the replies I say are basically “No, you are wrong, it is OP. I just said so, so it must be true.”
And to The Boz, I even said that pressing 1-2-3-4-5 isn’t the most effective way to do it. But the staff skills on necromancer can literally be spammed like that if you wanted to, and it would still be fairly effective.
The staff is not the condition weapon. The scepter/dagger is the condition weapon set. Staff is for utility. Most use all the 2-5 skillss at the same time because outside of utility (chill, three condi cleanse, fear), it has very little to offer, so they pop cooldowns and switch back to the damage set as soon as possible.
stunlock and perma stability (from some kind of stance) warriors need to be toned down as well, I see a lot of warriors in my solo que games. warriors necros and rangers a lot of them. Hardly any eles or mesmers.
This logic is one I can not understand…
The stunlock stability warrior came about as a direct counter to builds that lacked stability/stunbreakers (spirit ranger, condition necro) and primarily used conditions to deal damage (spirit ranger, condition necro, hgh engineer). It does what it was set out to do, and it does it well. It doesn’t touch classic bunkers, and burst characters have a fair shot at killing it.
The mental processes behind the decision to call all three OP because you see a lot of them flies in the face of reason.
This would make hammer guardian bunkers perfect. They’d literally fear no power or condition damage.
Not a bad idea by itself, but it needs a LOT of work.
Agreed.
There should also be an auto-reacquire function for stealth target drop.
Necros can literally aim their mouse on a point and press 1-2-3-4-5 and do a lot of AoE condition damage.
You have no idea how a necro rotation works, do you?
Actually burning is equivalent to 12.42 stacks of bleeding. Making it an extremely easy application that does a lot of damage with nothing near the same effort required to get the damage out of bleeding.
Bleeding = (0.05 * Condition Damage) + (0.5 * Level) + 2.5 per stack per second
Burning = (0.25 * Condition Damage) + (4 * Level) + 8 damage per second
With 1500 condition damage, bleeding would tick for 117, burning would tick for 703, IE 6.16 bleeds.
The amount of noob in this thread is strong. I have yet to read a single solid argument that isn’t wrong from the “conditions is OP” side.
Epidemic reapplies condition burst, indeed.
Please, for the love of god… you don’t need to roll the class at all, really, just take five minutes to read up on the class and the skills on the wiki… your tears will vanish soon after, I promise.
Necros should never have been given burning.
Torch looks awesome, though.
It should be no Match Making and completely Random. Coz Illusion of Syncing or Grouping up people with Same Rank also means ILLUSION OF PREMADE.
Recipe for unfun games, right here.
- Right now Ranger, Engi and Necro have spec’s that are god mode.
So you claim that three classes have godmode builds… And all those builds run off the same thing – condition damage… And you somehow can’t figure out how to adapt to that?
Really?
Here’s a hint:
Necro – Burst, CC.
Engie – Condi, burst.
Ranger – CC, burst. Or, you know, KILL THE SPIRIT.
- Warrior is just below them where they can have specs that are pretty powerful (minor tweaks and they would be balanced)
Mbuahahahahaha! Warrior! Right! The guy has ONE build that is currently effective. ONE. AND that build counters TWO of the THREE builds you listed as OP. How does that logic work? “Oh, this is OP because it can’t be countered. That other thing is a counter to the first thing, but it is OP as well.”
- The remaining classes – Guardian, Mesmer, Theif and Ele are all pretty much balanced.
Yeah, except no. Guardian is still the most powerful class because it is literally the ONLY class that can make a viable team work. When’s the last time you saw a high-level team run without a bunker guardian?
I won’t even comment on the other two.
Bring the 3 god mode classes into line. They should not have as much survivability as they do with being able to do as much damage as they do. It needs to balance out where you either have low damage and high survivability, or high damage and low survivability, not both.
Condition damage is empowered by survivability. Deal with it.
And to those of you saying just cleanse the conditions…You can cleanse them, but they will be reapplied within 1-2 seconds after you cleanse. So, you blow whatever cleansing abilities you have, then you are pretty much a sitting duck.
You can’t just cleanse randomly, you need to save it for when it will really make a difference. I guarantee you that whatever gets reapplied in 2 seconds after a cleanse is negligible if you cleanse at the right moment, IE don’t cleanse the two stacks of bleeding and one stack of poison.
A PvP build is asking for trouble if it lacks a stunbreaker (hint: the OP ranger you listed lacks a stunbreaker), and you’d need coordination in order to survive without a condition removal method of some description.
…you and I must not have been watching the same PAX.
…no, I don’t think attacking a condition necro with a condition build is gonna work…
A somewhat sturdier power build with some CC? Yeah, that’ll wreck him for sure.
Become meta-aware and adapt.
Basically, the entire system looks like it was the first draft they came up with after maybe an hour’s worth spent per class.
I… don’t really think anyone is complaining about the grind for cosmetics. In fact, we like it.
However, ascended items and the promise of 500 crafting? That thing is abhorrent.
Necro is OP
Mesmer is OP
Thief is OP
Ranger is OP
Engineer is OP
Warrior is OP
Elementalist is OP
You play a guardian, right?
:P
I’m sorry, but the logic of that argument is far below my understanding. You are still refusing to see the simple fact: some builds get everything they possibly need. Others, with the same degree of “want”, do not.
So… what kind of stat (other than sentinel’s and shaman’s) do you think this would go well with?
Ah, that’s rather neat. Too bad the price is insane.
Wow, that is your argument? “If you can’t get it, you obviously don’t need it”?
Based on assumptions that are not true, with values that are not realistic.
Ahahahahaha!!! Support tokens can now be sold for something like a silver apiece, but representation tokens, the ones that you have by, you know, actually participating in the event as intended, are worthless!
Ahahahahahaha!!!
Oh, god, this is sad. So, so sad.
…what?
What is this about?
The current trees are setup the way they are for every class, not only for Necromancer.
Not true; roll an alt.
Also, some classes in certain cookie-cutter builds can get EVERYTHING THEY WANT in one or two trees, easy. Yes, this is taking into account both PvP and PvE viability.
…but Vitality still holds a slight edge against burst damage and still scales slightly harder with DS. The math shows Vitality (especially in builds with Soul Reaping) has a particular advantage when it comes to LF generation…
Nope. Please show me that math. Because percent is percent, and percent multiplied by vitality or toughness equals the same effective percent of HP. Even with Soul Reaping accounted for, the net effect is exactly the same.
Bottom line:
Vitality: better vs conditions
Toughness: better with heals
…which means you tend to get a massive amount of LF back all the time (which scales with Vitality).
… so in general it’s more important to be able to live through burst, which Vitality is better at.
These are untrue, as has been proven by this thread.
On a necromancer, both vitality and toughness provide equal additional EHP per point, and they’re both equally effective at soaking burst damage, either to the normal bar, or to the death shroud one.
(edited by The Boz.2038)
I’d LOVE staff (GW1 beastmaster) and hammer (GW1 thumper) as new ranger weapons.
I want this to happen A LOT, but I lost faith in Anet doing it any time soon. The “Big Trait Patch” that came out recently only fixed, what, two traits total, and shifted around a few more? Some classes have incredible amounts of stupidity in their trees (ranger and necro are the biggest here, I think), both in the trait line bonuses and the traits themselves.
Ah, again the flawed “you only need one stat” argument.
It’s just plain wrong. There isn’t one, but two stats that directly affect your performance; condition damage and condition duration. There is one stat, precision, that indirectly increases your delivery chances. There are also three desirable (depending on the class) stats that are used as multipliers. Now, since condition damage gets better over time, tell me, can you stab a guess as to which three stats those three would be?
5 characters at 80. Soulbinds are stupid.
Well, the new patch is very, very close. Although primarily a PvE content update with a lot of interesting things, it just might have some changes regarding the meta. I’m eager to see what they came up with.
Any build is viable for PvE. Killing mobs doesn’t require anything.
This type of response is why we can’t have nice things.
Another idea:
Passive effect – Each unique effect that heals only you will also heal your pet, and vice versa.
The cap is 100%, but one effect ignores this limitation. I think it’s either Hemophilia or Lingering Curse.
It would be very welcome to know exactly how a lot of stuff in the game works, as in a display of the ratios, aftercasts, etc.
So tel me, is that the TOTAL health or basic health then we add vitality ?
I’d imagine that’s total, since health is (if I’m correct) based entirely off vitality IE: Necro will have more base vitality than a thief or ranger.
Nope. Vitality is always 10HP per point.
No.
For starters, notice how offensive amulets get more stats total.
And conditions themselves are not the problem. If you think they are, bring removal, play a counter to the meta.