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Are mesmers and thieves ruining PvP?

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Posted by: TheGuy.3568

TheGuy.3568

Nothing wrong with Thief’s or Mes in PvP. Do you guys realise how hard it is to not get caught playing a Thief? or How hard it can be for a mesmer to coordinate the right skills + order?

Or do you just go into SPvP, get owned by something you don’t understand, then cry OP ?

Well yes I do know how difficult it is but I don’t wan to call it that. Neither class over all is truly easy Mesmer takes time and strategy thief (dependent upon your build) does take some skill. That being said if I were to compare either class to lets say engineer or even more so ele I don’t think most players would call them more difficult than those 2. From a pure mechanics stand point Thief as a class has less risk entering into melee range then most others. On the other hand Mesmer wielding any weapon combo (timing and switching weapons also) has an abundance of available tools cc and harass dependent upon the case. None of this is bad. Most players have played these classes some actually get it.

However it cant be denied that sPvP (in terms of shear numbers) is dominated b these 2 classes.

maybe when everyone becomes less obsessed with ZOMG single target damage and more interested in aoe builds that end up layering over other peoples aoe builds we’ll start worrying less about clones, thieves guilds, and stealthed people.

While this is an option many classes including thief lack the over all aoe capability to do this. Also glass cannon for the most part is very effective. I have seen your suggestion done it will work but as I have said in previous post stealth is a core mechanic so are illusions nerf them out right you break not just the popular build but just about every build for both classes in one go.

Kor The Cold Heart War
Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele

(edited by TheGuy.3568)

Time to Live is my biggest issue with PvP

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Posted by: TheGuy.3568

TheGuy.3568

This rings true to me in the case of burst and numbers. Once I went up on my guardian (balanced not bunker build) vs another guardian who was using a similar build. It was a re one on one and it got down to after a minute and a half to spamming downed skills. Happened the same with necro I fought down to downed skills. Now in each one of those instance we went after it again with more players around. Dead in 4 seconds. The burst is really overwhelming only in mass. One on one you realize even vs burst if they miss is skill it will likely take a good while.

Kor The Cold Heart War
Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele

Are mesmers and thieves ruining PvP?

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Posted by: TheGuy.3568

TheGuy.3568

Thieves are fine (i do not play one) being squishy as hell,Mesmers need fixing although to be fair if they remove their ability to stealth while resetting the marked target as well,which is a massive advantage in messy 2v2 fights,and allow them to only teleport,it’d be fair enough for me.What ruins PvP for me is the chain CC (i just got knocked back 5 times in a row…),and carrying 1 skill with Stability is far for a workaround.Good points so far,it just shows day by day how pretty much everything was designed for mostly PvE in mind,sadly.

Tbh I am a lil shocked at all the cc but I see its place. The weapons with strong cc are in survivability lines most notably hammer for guardian and warrior. They are meant to control since they lack the burst of Great Sword and other weapons of this type. That being said considering how strong burst is if you add in all that cc their isn’t much you can do. I have had it happen to me before and I have done it before.

One thing that does get to me and deserves a post all to it self is how the company that pioneered having skills work differently in PvP and PvE rather differently on players than mobs manged to leave this game with balancing affecting pvp and pve simultaneously. IT makes no sense and its probably worth the eventual QQ.

Thieves yes, mesmer no.

Once Anet fixes the renderring issue with thieves’ chained stealth, they shouldn’t be a problem. In the first couple weeks of launch, there wasn’t a renderring issue and I was able to fight and deal with every thief I encountered but now I end up getting hit and killed by invisible thieves that I can’t fight back. As for mesmers, AOE’s kills their clones and illusions.

RIght now IMO bunker guardians and bunker elementalist (yes bunker) are more of a pain than any other class atm.

Ehhhh even without rendering its possible to chain stealth without the decoy debuff its all timing but yeah its possible but you wont see it much in PvP most of those players are getting the advantage of the legitimate issue.

They have said ele is likely too survivable that being said they are UP in just about any other build and have been pigeonholed into corner. TI could be argued that bunker anything is too strong but mind you that is point holding in the long run most wont kill a thing. In all honesty I think its fair that thy have that much survivability. Sacrifice attack you should get to live. Because each game is basically capture the flag this is more of a game design flaw than a class design flaw imho. I fear that they will nerf ele to the point it becomes nearly unplayable (which it isn’t far from now) compared to other classes.

Kor The Cold Heart War
Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele

(edited by TheGuy.3568)

Are mesmers and thieves ruining PvP?

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Posted by: TheGuy.3568

TheGuy.3568

I think so. I play a thief as my main, and I hate all the hardseekorz spammers and death blossom losers that are besmirching the name and culture of the class that I bought this game to play.

Nerf them both, then I can play my favorite class without all the FOTM rollers ruining it for me and the rest of us who just love the thief in general.

The sooner the better Anet.

Kind of sums up my thoughts but I don’t think some one is “fotm” just because they went with those builds from the start a lot of thieves wanted to be a traditional double dagger players. I cant fault them for that. However for me I play P/D if they nerf stealth they nerf me too and out side of some parts of WvW I cant really touch a D/D. That being said if it would bring it all in line then great. Honestly a cd on Heatseeker would likely be the easy fix but that could ruin D/D.

Some earlier said this was a complaint thread about the classes themselves and what about 100b warriors. Well the thing is this isn’t so much about thief pawning which they tend to do and more about sPvP being flooded with them. I don’t see a point in crying about getting beat considering it happens all the time and I don’t think any of us need a game to stroke our egos. Their will always be some one who is better at it than you thats the way things are. However what happens when it stops being fun? Match in match out thieves doing seeker blossom spams. Among the warriors I have fought I have seen 100b less than 5 times so I cant complain.

So to make a long response more compact its not so much about the fact that we tend to lose to the build but the fact it seems to be the only build that thieves run and that their are so many of them thats it.

Kor The Cold Heart War
Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele

Are mesmers and thieves ruining PvP?

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Posted by: TheGuy.3568

TheGuy.3568

Now that I think about it I don’t think the problem is that Thief or Mesmer is very OP its that they are so practical why wouldn’t some one play the?. As far as Mesmer goes imo just about any build is practical. Thief on the other hand requires the least amount of time to get your hands on the class and start performing. I don’t think either of these is a bad thing considering I wish all classes worked like this but at the same time it is frustrating that every match is dominated (not points but the actual number of players on each team) by Thiefs and Mesmers. I usually hate playing my thief in sPvP though I run P/D.

Kor The Cold Heart War
Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele

Are mesmers and thieves ruining PvP?

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Posted by: TheGuy.3568

TheGuy.3568

Its a legit question not a qq considering my mains are those 2 classes and all I ever fight is well those.

Kor The Cold Heart War
Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele

Please, fix stealth!

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Posted by: TheGuy.3568

TheGuy.3568

If a player don’t know how to use stealth to get out of combat then that’s their problem if you are speced for stealth its a get out of combat free card that just about no one can do anything about it.

About reveal (again people need to learn the class) if you attack as stealth naturally breaks no debuff try it. Wait for 0 or count it down in your head the timing is not that hard.

Kor The Cold Heart War
Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele

(edited by TheGuy.3568)

Please, fix stealth!

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Posted by: TheGuy.3568

TheGuy.3568

I don’t get it. Stealth is not a shield it does not blind (on its own) it does not cancel incoming attacks and it is working properly. As far as the down state goes the only one that might be close to that good is Mesmer and the guardian one for sheer healing. You have a port a stealth and a get me out of combat free button before all that what more could you want?

Kor The Cold Heart War
Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele

Rapid Stealth

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Posted by: TheGuy.3568

TheGuy.3568

stealth doesn’t make you invulnerable.

Use AOE fields to get him or spam attacks (when he stealths).

To prevent much of the stealth in the first place, dodge whenever he gets close to melee range of you (because “Cloak and Dagger” is the melee skill that stealths him).

hmmm well thats only partly true. Tbh if you run this build you likely traited “Cloaked in Shadow” which blinds aoe in range on stealth. And if you want troll there are 4 skills that stealth between support and heal. Dodging wont do all that much because for one your not burning initiative (you can cast C & D 3 times in a row) and you can just use a support skill to stealth. Honestly it is easy to counter. Think of it like this what would you do in most games vs a tank you likely wont kill but cant burst you down?

Kor The Cold Heart War
Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele

Power vs Condition

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Posted by: TheGuy.3568

TheGuy.3568

I’m not sure it has a strength. at least for thief. There’s no sustained damage possible via conditions only. at best you could have a mixed approach with some condition damage and some power, leaving neither weak. Trying to be a superspecialist could be a mistake in this game. Hybrids may end up most viable

On point one yes you can run a condition build and get away with it but most people dont see it. P/D can dole damage if your willing to work for it and figure the ins and out (still need dd off set to catch runners but it is all good) If they choose to toe to toe with you to speak between all the blinds stealths and bleeds it gets a little funny.

You may be right hybrids may end up on top but as of right now few hybrid builds seem viable anyplace other than PvE cause you end u kittening yourself. However in the future who knows I think possibly the balanced approach may come out on top because kitten of right now all I see is glass cannon after glass cannon.

Kor The Cold Heart War
Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele