Guild Wars 2

Just handicap for solo vs team. they said they could do things like that now right?

Post like this remind me what the real issue is. Bad players. No question about it. For the record I have the expansion but I have been playing the same mesmer build for the last 5 or 6 months. I have not touched and likely will not touch Chrono in pvp for some time. I have never felt the angst of dealing with DH and reaper because after a few losses during beta I realized how they work. Think about that a sec. I realized how they work and I didn’t even bother to change my traits.

I am not bragging or anything even remotely like that. I see other players every day with several thousand games playing core classes wiping the floor with the new builds. It’s not that they aren’t strong but that players refuse to grow and learn counters.

The saddest part is the game is dumbed down even further now. Most players run the same exact build. So countering a chrono, DH, or reaper is more playing by numbers. There are no tricks. You know what they are going to do and when they are going to do it.

The sense of entitlement here is actually quite funny. It goes something lie this. I have played this game for 3 years. I am a pvp vet. However, I have not bought the expansion and can not beat the new builds with my core build. They must be very OP because I am losing to them!

Most of the suggestions made on these forums are illogical and solely exist to vent frustration. The posters know the ideas have nearly no chance of implementation yet they utter the words in order to express anger.

Until i find an elite spec that really challenges my core Mesmer or Engineer I do not see a point in comparison. The elites are shiny and new but as you learn the mechanics they are essentially not much stronger or weaker than all the builds in the ether. In fact pvp (for me at least) has gotten more face roll and so many players play the same exact builds. too easy to counter. Not saying their aren’t balance issues it just seems over blown to me at this point.

Celtic Lady.3729:

I’ve still only seen T4 Verdant Brink night twice in the last 3 weeks despite having spent more time in VB than in any of the other 3 maps combined. I’ve talked to people that have still never seen it even though they’ve parked their characters there, hoping to get one.

Some people claim they get VB T4 night every single time.

I don’t really understand this discrepancy, but for those of us that almost never see it succeed, it gets to be very old, very fast.

Press Y. See all “Organized VB Taxi” teams? Join one and taxi in.

There are certain exercises that expose weaknesses. You do them and your only response is, “Wow I didn’t know my (insert) was so weak.”. HoT overall has been an expose over how weak the core game is in terms of difficulty and how reward minded most of the vocal community is.

“This is too hard”, said by so many it is synonymous with hot. Truth is the content is not too hard players have been spoiled by cake walk PvE. Sad thing is animations are still visible and pay half attention will keep you alive. Now I never made it to high level fractals or anything like that but have played PvP and WvW primarily my time here with PvE being the bank to support the now dead WvW. The thing I noticed is in most cases you could run full zerk and if you pay just a little attention you will come out unscathed. This was the old rule. The new rule is the same but you have to pay just a little more attention.

SO why is the content hard for some? Reflexes mostly and entitlement. I will talk about refelxes first. PvE to most PvP players is as slow as watching paint dry because PvP is simply quicker. Not better or worse just quicker paced. So the idea of having to dodge or press button X or get hp taken away isn’t that complex. Yet many players have fought NPCs that posed them no credible threat. Pew and loot whether you are ranged or not has been the name of the game. It still is but the mobs can kill you now. So if the attack can kill you dodge or block it right? WRONG! Go to the forums and proclaim that the NPC with the obvious animation and the marker on your head is too hard to handle.

The other part is entitlement. Players tend to feel that their time pew-pewing dumb mobs equals skill and something note worthy. Like full ascended gear they feel they earned something special. Yet it is not. It is time and money but not skills. Its kind of like titles and finishers. Having a dragon finisher means you PvP a good deal. But you may still be garbage. Because with enough time you get there regardless. time shouldn’t necessarily equal reward. getting better and honing your skills in some cases should be your only shot at some things.

See with all the titles, gear, and self importance many players forgot the joy of beating an actual challenge or how to even approach it. There are things that require you to just get good enough t win. GW2 has disregarded this in most cases. Strats trumped skill and gave everyone a big head. That’s the real problem here. Self importance built on a solo players experience that wasn’t very challenging and group players who have an elitist attitude to content that wasn’t that challenging.

Now this may be a bit scathing but it isn’t a lie. There is one case where we have something earned based primarily on skill and execution. Every player with Liadri the Concealing Dark understand there was a point where the only thing that would get you past it was your own skills. A strat helped but it required awareness and decent reflexes. You had to earn it and too this day some very old accounts with many points do not have that mini.

So before you let that tongue go waving I will ask you the same thing I ask pvp players. Did you ever consider the problem might be you? You slacked and never got better?

Heimdallr.7021:

Seriously, stop clicking and keybind your skills.

This. This so much.

Why……..do you even Rev bro?

WvW is dead and never got much in the way of balance in the first place. They will nerf many things including this. The fact that so many people are so crap at pvp to dodge and strafe the simple things is really the point. They can nerf it and they will and should but if you are getting downed by this let me spike you with my mesmer and just look at you with my engineer.

If you are working for most it is a chore. Eats up too much time in a grind. No matter how you disguise it running from event to event killing mobs solely for the sake of leveling is a grind. That being said it is one of the core elements of most mmos. Kill mobs and level. So complaining about not having enough time to get it shouldn’t be, “This is a chore”. It should be, “Let me toss money at this so I do not have to do this!”.

Imho whenever you have this type of time sink you should be able to trade some sort of irl money for it. Basically as others have too much mastery ie time there should be a way to sell to those who simply do not have the time to do the lengthy unlocks in a reasonable amount of time. To some hardcore gamers this is a blasphemy but in the real world where most people do have to work and have to use their free time wisely it is a true help. In general it is good for the economy (we do this already with the exchange as it is). So before you plan more, “Lets make good content equal long grind”, think about the forced to be casual player. They would play more if they could but they have things like responsibilities and time constraints.

Ookamikun.6472:

Also yeah why is there weapon swap on a character that only has one underwater weapon?

2 weapons that have different stats and sigils that is why.

Pizz.3698:

Either wait for them to reactivate ranked or just play more unranked and increase your MMR

This guy gets it.

Vague Memory.2817:

I guess someone could say adapt and overcome, but what that really means it you can’t beat them, join them. I don’t think abusing broken classes or builds is fun because they have a low skill floor, and personally I don’t find it satisfying beating another player knowing there was nothing they could do about. A few people don’t find that a problem though, a win is a win them. To me, if I know I’ve played well that makes it fun.

What is considered balanced is in the eye of the beholder at the end of the day. If you have been in pvp this long you will realize that despite the many metas players who choose to adapt will have more success in general. Everyone with a gripe with a class or build tosses out a similar line, “I don’t feel right winning with a broken class/build”. In many cases the builds they consider broken are. In many more the builds they consider broken are not and they are just too lazy to counter or out play them.

That why we see the same complaints over and over again with the same undertone. ‘I am a good player who just wants balanced but I keep getting beat by these cheese builds’. Yet it remains that most of the build are easy to counter. They just have the tendency to go against the logic of closing the gap and running your rotation as you wait for result. Many of these cheese builds punish players who do not use logic, do not try to actively counter meta builds, or just rush in spamming. So nerfs will come but the situation remains the same. Most players can not no rather will not separate their lack of skill from critical thinking when it comes to balance. It is too emotional for them and they end up in the same state over and over.

Come to the forums beg for nerfs, when/if they come find a new build to kitten about.

What makes this some of the worst I have ever seen it is that some builds are so fresh that people opted to complain first rather than learn to counter them. This is not ele DD. This aint celestial. Most of these builds are glass with little counters to focus fire yet players who say they have been pvping for years have issues with them. It defies logic. Years of experience with various metas yet a week of traps (no different that trap ranger and the burn burst) has led to these type of tears? I keep finding myself questioning if many of you played mindless builds for 3 years, got your dragon, and just stopped trying.

At this point the idea of getting better, playing the builds to learn their counters, and changing your own build to compensate have gone out the window in favor of crying to get your way. Even after they nerf these classes you will still lose to so many builds.

DO NOT GET ME WRONG. DH will get nerfed (more) as will most of the new elites. No real question there. Nor am I saying that this process should be stopped because balance is good for the game with all it’s highs and lows. However, I can’t imagine how in the hell you enjoy this game if every meta you go through the same crises over and over and over again? “get good”, and “L2P” are insults but they are additionally advise. The best players whoso many praise play the same broken op builds in tourney. People use them as a measuring stick but yet they consistently do the same thing and adapt to the meta. If you are not willing to do that then why the hell are you here?

BlackBunny.3681:

Stop defending DH…. you are comparing DH to a full tank thats also overpowered…. DH is going to get nerfed you cant stop it.

It literally doesn’t matter if DH gets nerfed or not. It will most likely and i could careless. The pattern remains. A build you can’t handle shows up, you kitten, a nerf comes, find another build you can not handle. Start the cycle over again.

Mak.2657:

TheGuy.3568:

DH are traps. Range them down and they die.

How you imagine this against good DH on a point which can LOS too?

Sigh…blow the trap (pet or clone) DPS. Outside Foe fire and temple they aren’t going to be LOS for long and your team should be on them first from ranged. Once the burst comes in they aren’t going to last long. Use team work and they really aren’t an issue. But it doesn’t matter Anet will nerf them and we go down the same road again. And for the record I do not have DH I have a rev (I expect some dps nerfs) and my vanilla mesmer or engineer is still my go to.

I haven’t lost to a DH because it’s the same as trap ranger pew pew from range and the trap is useless if they come off point just make sure you blow the trap first without getting killed. Simple kitten. Just like fighting trap ranger.

Stop being newbs. I mean seriously l2p. DH are traps. Range them down and they die. Blow the traps with a pet or clone and don’t stand in it and they die. Rev built for DPS CAN NOT take a condi burst. They simply do not have the clearing for it. Not by a long shot. Hammer 1 is slow, clunky, and usually its the might stack that kills you. Think of Pew Pew ranger how do you counter them?

There will always be some build you all think is OP. How OP it is is not based on how hard it is for you to handle it but based on the skills you and your team have available to do so. DD ele was such a pain because it could handle most things that should counter it. The ones you mention now are susceptible to some hard counters. So it becomes the same old thing. Are you willing to counter it or wait for a nerf and a new target to complain about?

Often you guys get advice in these threads. Ignore it and continue the moan train all the while someone else went into the game applied it and started winning. The pattern is the same over and over yet most of you are still in the same spot doing the same thing and still can’t adapt. You have played enough pvp to get the title but truth is most of you are the same kitten guys you were 3 years ago with 0 growth. There will always be a meta start learning to adapt to it because the next nerf will not be the last. The game is constantly changing and you will never be satisfied because you never learn. go on beg for your nerfs and watch a new meta pop and another reason to type angrily into the key board.

Vent and Jal have “ok” condi removal. I imagine you could create a pocket healer build with those 2 and the right stats. I think it is lacking in the general sense but a glass cannon should be a glass cannon. Right now Rev can hit like a truck and make the entire team do the same. I think the trade off is fine but some players do not get it.

Here is the thing. Many of you haven’t played it. You can come here and say you did but you can lie too. The channel is stopped by stealth this is fact. Hours in the new map has confirmed this for me plus pvp. Second, no matter how hard revs can hit they are completely countered by condis. There is no condition management on the class that can handle an actual burst. If they are on there it is pretty much gg. If you are near a wall other players etc as it has been said over and OVER you will not take the brunt of the damage. Rev could be OP but until I see a build that can handle my condi mes (not a chrono) I can’t see it as OP. So far what i have seen is players kitten about things that can be countered. From DH traps to Ranger pets to n evading sword skill. It is SSDD. Either try to get better or give up. No matter what they nerf and how they nerf it you will always be worse than some other player. Accept it and move on.

More than 3 days no gems. It is just silly at this point. I guess scammers screwed them so well that they have to do this to their customers. At the very least if you are going to say 3 days max make sure it is 3 days max.

I am not looking forward to this grind. I get the time spent and the slow unlock but with limited time it is as boring as watching paint dry to do this. So people can have opinions whether they like the new way they do things or not. I can only see it through my eyes. Eating up this much play time is just silly.

We had a system that worked for years. Large guilds got all the big goodies quickly small ones didn’t but could still progress. they could pump money in for the people they lacked but would still hit a point where they would need more people. However, this did not come before they could actually makes lots of progress over time. Having huge pay walls, leaving out solo and very small guilds, and ignoring the issue is denying a voice.

Lots of people just do not have the time for the BS of a big guild. Lots of people do not want to talk to strangers during the 2 hours they get a night to play. Lots of people do not want to be your internet buddy or even talk to you and be your friend. They love the game but they are not people persons. They accepted long ago that they would never have world first or anything like that. Most did not complain. They made their small strides in silence and left you alone or even helped you from the side in small ways. The minute they want what they had back they are told, “It’s called an MMO for a reason”.

Do you tell Introverts in the real world (the grandest MMO there is) to make more friends even though it will add not one meaningful thing to their lives and likely just drain them? Most people leave them alone. The kittens who demand they act like extroverts are a bane upon their lives. Many grow to hate them.

So I will dumb this down for you. An introvert who has little social skills and likes to be left alone will usually not politic their way up the food chain in most companies quickly. However, diligent work some times gets recognized and they do get enough money (with smart savings) for a house a car and the little amenities in life. Do they do it as quick as dinks and people with big families willing to help. Usually no but, they do get there. They are not told because you do not have a big network of friends, and family you have to sit in your apartment for the rest of your life and rot. They can still make it there but not here in a game?

Do not deny people who just happen to experience life different than you the right to achieve dreams. Do not be the kitten.

Look if you didn’t pump major time into a small guild you will not understand the gripe. If you have unlimited time to play and a large group of friends you will not understand the gripe. You do not even have to care. But for some players this is a kittenty situation where time and effort put in over years went poof over night. You expect some people not to feel kittened off about that?

Necro in my case. I have never found a build I like or could get the hang of. Thief but just because at it currently is it is hair trigger reflexes or gg. Engi is kind of hard but it depends on what I am doing and if it is my go to build or not. I am fine with juggling but I still miss key binds when I switch builds.

Here is the thing. You are pretty much forced into running a build to counter condis which may or may not actually counter condis while having yourself exposed to spike. Now this is actually pretty fair. The problem is the builds that run condi are pretty durable vs everything. It makes things strange. There are additionally bunker builds that have the same caveat durable vs everything.

At this point I can play burst but having to deal with rangers, and necros just ruins the fun for me but at the same time vs most condi builds I am perfectly fine.

The question is do we go back to a burst meta, a tanky/sustain meta, a bunker meta. The one thing about the condi meta is that it can be countered for the whole team on point. Thee problem is you are playing lottery as if you have a person willing to do it.

This is the PvP forums. Not general or WvW but PvP.

Stealth here has limited uses. When rezzing it will be met with cleave, and on point it is almost useless. Out side of initial confrontation and some tricky mechanics (like stealthing jugg so they get the first hit in) it is not an issue. Let me say it again it is not an issue for this community. Ranked play rarely rely on stealth builds outside get a burst off. When on point it is a liability often.

I can understand you think there is no counter play but there is. Lets be realistic. Most of us know stealth goes about 3 seconds in most cases. Most attacks come a little less than 2 seconds in. Some players dodge others block but you know that most stealth skills have a very short duration. So it isn’t that hard to counter in PvP.

Ground based targeting skills, aoe, cleave, blocks, timed dodges, and skills that force revealed all work as a counter.

If this were WvW where admittedly I use stealth to on most of my solo roaming builds I could understand your frustration (but even then there are work arounds). The issue is this is the PvP forums. Stealth here for the average player is not a game changer but an annoyance.

Rashagar.8349:

I’ve found this thread interesting, though with some posters I was a bit unsure which game mode they were referencing with their posts. This post is probably going to attract a lot less attention than for example Mefiq’s is, but thought I’d make it anyway, cos why not.

Speaking from a wvw perspective, I can’t say I hate fighting against condi mesmers so much as it is I hate fighting against such ridiculous levels of stealth. Just because there’s no winning against one in a 1v1 scenario when they jump you while you’re going somewhere. You can possibly outplay one, or fight one off, or get to safety in time, but you have zero chance of killing one, which just isn’t particularly fun to play against, especially when the risk of dying is as high as it is. At the barest hint of an even playing field they just disappear, and then you spend the next 10+ seconds wondering if they went to roam somewhere else or are going to come back to try finish you off now that they’ve reset their hit points and all of your condition removal is still on cooldown (for example). Comparatively, if someone disengages when they start losing by simply using superior mobility it’s fine with me, because at least I know that’s what they’ve done, and I can feel satisfied with myself for successfully fending someone off. That satisfaction doesn’t exist in a fight against one of these kinds of mesmers, because of the 10+ seconds of stress wondering if the fight is really over or not.

What class do you play?

Not going to accuse or belittle you. When roaming solo you have to account for the fact you will run into groups of players. WvW is a big arena and while it may seem unfair that some classes roam well solo remember that any group will cancel out just about any solo build. So solo player run builds with the capability to disengage and engage easily.

Mesmer does not have strong chase especially condi mesmer. I could get away with satff 2 and some camera work but in terms of chasing I have no chance. So keep that in mind. Unlike thief mesmer mobility is better for a run than a chase. So sitting still wondering what’s going on is a mistake. PU mesmers have strong stealth but generally do not carry inspiration which means there condi management is bad. If you load them they will likely go down.

Thief can just disengage the fight. So can a well played warrior or ranger. Engi can (to a degree) with stealth. DD ele with FGS can not be caught. Of those Ele can directly resist a condi build that doesn’t have a good deal of power. Warrior can out run and fend off most attacks and condis. Thief can clear (some what) with decent stealth application and the right builds (sword, ss, etc.) Engineer has the hardest time dealing with condis but has strong stealth application too (with Kinetic in hand I can actually stealth pretty well vs a non pu mesmer).

Roaming is about who can outrun/think the other player. I out ran some players the other day by mixing teleports and water using no stealth. On engineer I have used juggernaut and rifle to run em for days. Thief can just out run anyone and short bow 5 is the mobility king. If you are solo roaming on a class that can not disengage well then you are running solo at your own risk. When I used to play thief heavily we used to say thieves only die when they overextend. This is true of all classes suited for solo roaming. If you never overextend no one should really be able to catch you (save a smart thief) all by them self. It really isn’t about dueling but out thinking the other guy. If you get hell bent on killing a player and you start waiting around for them or chasing to who knows where that is on you.

Right now imho zerg vs zerg is more of an issue overall that solo roaming imbalances. Simply because 6 out of the 8 classes can do it just fine.

Pimsley.3681:

It goes like this…you lose 3 in a row and decide to queue again to make up but then Murphy’s Law happens and you end up losing 7-8.

Quite comical actually but still annoying

You could just be bad (not saying you are). Or you could be focused squarely on the win and not how well you played personally. So many break it down to wins and loses but I have won and felt like I put in a kitten poor effort. I have lost and felt good because I was winning my match ups. Perception is key here. I could get a great or bad team based on the stats. I rather be a great player myself win or lose.

I do not remember the last time I played a hot join. If I were you I would go into unranked. Once you get your bearing go into ranked. If you still find ranked hard go to unranked and then go back to ranked and stick with it. Eventually your reflexes will get faster and you will be relaxed while fighting. While many ranked players yell and scream at new players for messing up truth is you have to learn and if you put your time in you will get as good if not better then most whiners.

trust me after playing this much ranked I wen into unranked this weekend and left bodies left and right. I took no real joy in it and promptly booted my own behind back to ranked. I do not say this to brag but there is a skill difference. If you play ranked you will get better by osmosis or simply because you will hate being useless/losing.

Another great source is youtube and these forums. Depending on the class you play ask who role you should fulfill land how to do it. You will get salty people saying negative things about the class or use your post as a soapbox to lodge complaints. Ignore them. Some players will give you helpful advice. Use it. Learn your build inside and out. Once you do that you’ll be good.

No matter the case you need to play those better players to get better. Once your mmr takes a hit you’ll get joined with players who could theoretically “carry” you. Learn from the losses and you will get better.

The thing you should not do is get into the habit of running to the forums to complain. There is no way in hell you won’t get better if you do not face the tougher opponents and learn. This can not be emphasized enough. If all you do is complain and never practice you will always suck at this.

John Witherspoon voice

“You win some, you lose some… But you live to fight another day!”

Got the same premade 2 times today. My team droned on about how much they hate getting matched against premades. We had almost the same players on my team both times. We won both times. It isn’t getting a pre made but a good one that simply out ranks/mmr you that is the issue. I hope they bring back solo ques to solves this but I remember the days where people kittened about queue times left and right.

The only advantages pre mades have are comp and communication. While I cringe at the idea of having some high pitched teenager yell in my ear for going far when no one is on it I think in game voice communication could help.

If you are not bringing clears no matter your personal damage type that is on you. We have spike bunker and condi. It isn’t that complex. If you do not bring clears use your dodges or watch your condis then what can anyone do. When burst was the meta people kittened, when tanky dps the same, and condis the same. No one builds to deal they head to the forums to complain. It gets to me every time. Nobody gets better at the game they kitten and wait for nerfs and buffs. Once HoT hits the tears will be too much to handle. We saw one weekend of it. Most players instead of learning builds and counters came to complain. I see vets and new players do the same thing. “How good are you really?” I implore you to ask yourself that question. Because at this point you have guard, trap ranger, and engi that could probably burn you to death. If you can not handle those 3 it really is on you. Bring a clear and negate the damage.

Kuya.6495:

It’s really strange. You got people making threads about the bunker/sustain meta being out of control while others make threads about damage being too high.

I don’t understand this forum.

What most players lose to they come to kitten about. Other players who agree bolster that players position. It is as simple as that.

Thief will be ok but, it will still be pigeonholed into decapper and stealth provider.

I will be honest I have beat all these specs (I have lost to all of them too). Not bragging but I have seen teams of competent [layers handle each one of them. I do not think they are balanced but I think a bit of this is learning the tells for the big skills and what methods will work on each class. To this point I have yet to lose to reaper one on one and have yet to see a ranged burst fail to down one. Counter the wells for chrono seems to do this trick (gravity well I just save invul or stun break for) along with dodging ToT. Scrapper is bursty but that’s about it. The killshot burst has a decent read to it just like before (and you should be playing with line of sight defacto). Druid healing is still susceptible to ff.

I know players are up in arms but much of this is learning the builds. Snap judgment a sign of a bad sport. Once you fight them a few times they will get better at the builds and you will get better at handling them. Give it some time. Until players have had a great deal of time with the final product will you realize what is truly game breaking and what isn’t. You have to realize that most of these players know the ins and outs of your normal builds but you know less about theirs.

I may get hate for this but accept the losses and learn from them. It will take time to really figure out whats op and what is not. this is not learn by numbers and run a rotation that is for PvE. You have to observe and counter. You have to learn the opponents tricks. Wasting time on the forum saying “This will ruin the game” this early in means you do not like a challenge. Then why are you pvping in the first place? To win or to be a better player who can read and counter builds? Stop being the kids who cry when they lose and be the kid who goes to the gym to get better. The fact there are so many of these threads already lets us know how most of the community is. It really isn’t about getting better to be better but knocking the other guy down to feel better. There are some legit op builds but the vast majority are not. L2P is tossed around like a grade schooler insult but the truth is it should study and stop being lazy.

Most players do not duel. try to read builds. go to the wiki and study the skills. They lose they kitten and they post. they never really get better. They never accept some players are better than them. I fought a warrior the other day who handed me my kitten with a build i have no seen before. I tried to read it but couldn’t I went to look it up but saw nothing but generic issues. I accepted that person was probably using the basic build and just out played me. There was no angry tell or “WAR OP PLZ NERF” post. I moved and and tried to work on my timing in general. Most of you would get more mileage accepting there are better players than you and builds than yours. You would get more wins learning what to avoid rather than making everything a grudge match with your pride on the line. You like winning yes? Then play better.

Half the time teams lose in rank because they got out rotated. they had better individual scores but never played to win or thought about not dueling and capping instead. The long and short of it is to be a better player. If you are not willing to do that then why pvp? And despite all i have said YES there will be nerfs and balance changes to the new classes. It is a must but thinking each one is OP with so few fight………

BlackBeard.2873:

TheGuy.3568:

BlackBeard.2873:

Looks to me like we have a golden opportunity to tone down healing turret a bit (so its not just strictly better than every heal in the game, and every heal engie has). I am not saying “Oh, just delete healing turret.” Just saying that it is silly to have the best heal in hp/s also be a burst heal, also have a water field (+ a second), also be able to cleanse a bunch of condis (traited with inventions it is basically a full condi wipe). It is pretty crazy that even healing gyro can’t compete, and that is instant (can be used while cc’d) and has a player-based water field for healing like you get on the turret.

So engis who do not play scrapper get screwed right?

No, because healing turret is objectively OP. The other heals available are actually pretty decent in the right builds, but even in something like HGH you always take healing turret b/c it is so unreasonably good.

Heck, even the trait that gives you 5s of prot scales better with healing turret than anything b/c it procs 2x (due to having to double-activate the turret). Actually, come to think of it, Med Kit would probably be hilariously OP here b/c it is perma-protection (as opposed to 60% uptime) + 4x cleanse from inventions every 10s, but nobody is even trying to find such synergies b/c healing turret too good.

I think they should (and have been working on) making the other heals better, esp. med kit. But they would need to be objectively OP to compete with something so good.

Engis take the turret for the knock back and group healing. I can actually manage better in my HGH build with elixir H. To say its OP in comparison other skills in the same class is silly. I mean really silly. You have to look at it vs other group heals. Condi management for the group mesmer can beat it. Duration of the field trapper ranger. Saying its op because it is not as good as other heals (and with the exception of med kit you are wrong). Looking for an engineer nerf based on the strength of scrapper is just unfair and short sighted.

BlackBeard.2873:

Looks to me like we have a golden opportunity to tone down healing turret a bit (so its not just strictly better than every heal in the game, and every heal engie has). I am not saying “Oh, just delete healing turret.” Just saying that it is silly to have the best heal in hp/s also be a burst heal, also have a water field (+ a second), also be able to cleanse a bunch of condis (traited with inventions it is basically a full condi wipe). It is pretty crazy that even healing gyro can’t compete, and that is instant (can be used while cc’d) and has a player-based water field for healing like you get on the turret.

So engis who do not play scrapper get screwed right?

I am not saying all elite specs are op or anything even near that. I am saying that most of them will need balancing before and after release. Considering that not every player in the pvp base will purchase HoT but many will still be dedicated pvp players I propose this. Please do not balance anything in the core specs around Elite specialization. What I mean is do not make a balance decision based on the fact that lets say scrapper has access to something that core engineer doesn’t that might be game breaking or otherwise. Do all the adjustments to scrapper and scrapper alone. Balance engineer on its own as if scrapper were nonexistent.

Now this may seem like common sense but some decision (not all) have defied it before. This separation will be key in pvp balance.

Not bragging or joking. I have yet to lose 1 v1 with reaper on my condi (no PU) mesmer. So far if I stay ranged it seems to work just fine. I have fought quite a few so being serious I have yet to see how it counters condi mesmer. Would someone mind explaining? (not kidding) I do not have hot yet and haven’t touched the class.

Locuz.2651:

TheGuy.3568:

Let me be frank. It was 4 matches. Just 4 matches. I once had it happen 10 matches in a row. 10 of a couple thousand. It was not worth a post or a change in action. The sky is not falling chicken little.

What about guys intentionally afking and trolling for a day or more. And anet doing nothing despite the reports?

Not worth a change in action?

Nope because I will not have him in every match just due to the sheer number of pvp players actually playing. That like buying a taco and you find a hair in it. You choose not to eat tacos anymore though you have had hundreds without incident before. I once cracked an egg and found blood. I was a bit surprised but i threw out that egg and cracked the next one all the same.

JinDaVikk.7291:

Any and all hard counters shouldn’t exist period. Your own argument about skill should explain this.
hard counters are cancer in pvp.

I can’t see where you inferred this from.

trytonianYeti.4389:

Maybe in an idealistic world. Some theories may look good on paper but when applied realistically, it just doesn’t work. For example – communism.

I was very clear to say “some”. For some it would simply be impossible. Angry post against things that are actually game breaking do make sense. This is a game and people did pay money for it (in most cases) so they should have a right as consumers to speak up. Despite that this is a bit competitive. I find it interesting that the first gut reaction of many is anger. I find it funny many solely value the win and not how well played the match was.

Communism doesn’t work on paper either. The assumption that people are happy doing what they are best at is flawed. The idea that people will be satisfied as long as they have equal amounts of the pie is very flawed too. In a funny point an economics professor I had from the eastern block said something interesting once. While the lines were long and people were miserable everybody willing to wait got bread. It may not mean much but I think we got her point.

Hmm. No clue. That + generosity could be pretty strong but far from op.

Let me be frank. It was 4 matches. Just 4 matches. I once had it happen 10 matches in a row. 10 of a couple thousand. It was not worth a post or a change in action. The sky is not falling chicken little.

I have seen them all go down to one thing or the other. I do not think we will have a grasp if anything is truly op for a while. I really mean that. I have seen chronos lose simply because players were watching for the block and well tells. Same with reaper. I have seen many just range them to death or ff them off the bat. Since none of these are sustained kings so far it seems basic team pressure is still doing the trick despite how hard some of them can hit.

And I actually agree with OP to a degree. I have yet to see it but i think Druid might actually end up one of the strongest once players realize how to play it like a pocket healer properly. I have yet to see it though.

Gabriell.4856:

Narcarsis.5739:

Reikou.7068:

To be honest, Heartseeker should probably get evade frames.

And no, makes stealth access far too easy.

Because it isn’t easy enough now? /shrug. Your comment is as stupid as my troll comment.

Sigh… he meant that you can interrupt hs to deny stealth. If it had an evade frame than that wouldn’t be possible. I doubt he was trolling just pointing out a legit issue that would lead to more thief hate if it was added to the game.

Zenith.7301:

TheGuy.3568:

I have a novel suggestion. How about upping the pets ai. Visible aoe like wells will force the pet to take a different route to target or wait to engage (2-3 seconds). Give the pet its own stamina bar and the ai to dodge an incoming attack periodically. This could be useless or useful depending on how you use it. We know you guys could do it. Why not try it out and see if it helps?

No. Making the pet sit dumb out of AoE doing zero DPS just so that it doesn’t die is readily available by jut setting your pet to follow.

The pets need to have aoe/cleave avoidance, and anything below drakes needs HP/toughness buffs to not be 1-2 shot by a boss when they get aggro.

They also need to get rid of that archaic 60 second death timer for the pet. It’s absurd.

I said path around too but thank you for ignoring that. I said dodge too but thank you for ignoring that too. I said delay (ie wait for a sustained skill like a well to run a bit then engage) but you ignored that too. Thank you for your feed back. I suggested upping the ai to that of a basic player and you said nope sounds bad.

Pets do not need an invul and players should not need to micro manage them to death. Give them better ai they will dodge big hits just like players do. I think maybe you might need an ai boost too. I kid but really?

I keep wondering this. When some people lose they come to beg for nerfs. This tends to happen long before they look at the build, try to figure out counter, or even hit the wall (where you know you can’t beat it but others can). It leads me to the idea that perhaps some people feel they should win consistently. And that goes more than just for the loser but the winners too. Some seem to over evaluate how much of the victory was their skills vs the build itself.

Generally if I play a build and I win too easily I question if I should run it. Whether someone else agree is op or up I think about it and it’s counters. I set in my mind my personal pvp skills to mediocre/average and then consider how much work I have to put in to win, survive, lose etc. I consider builds that might counter mine and how much they have the potential to shut me down.

I do not say all this as bragging but I wonder each time I see a random nerf thread did the person play the class first? How long? Did they try a counter build? How many? and more questions like this.

I understand defending a build you like ( I do it too). Yet I still ask more questions. Do you know the counter? Have you ever been easily countered? If not perhaps a player might want to think about it. The same way a player can write an angry post about how “OP” build x is another player might defend it to the end.

In the long run I think for many it boils down to 1 issue. They like winning.

I think in many cases they like winning more than they like being better players. Kind of like a trophy that says you are worth something. I know they sound the same but they aren’t due to some caveats. Winning might be more important than actually practicing and improving. A player can win a match and see the new victory as some metric of how good they are. Another player could lose a match and see where they are improving and try to improve further.

I think that might be the difference to focus on for some people. Rather than a loss or trying to get class x nerfed improvement might be the answer (this is not an absolute mind you as nerfs and buffs are part of balancing). I rarely see this among veterans but new players from time to time come and ask for advice how how to build in general or how to beat class/build x. I think there is value in the mind set that your timing can get quicker, your build could be stronger, and that your knowledge of other builds can lead not to wins necessarily but more competitive play.

Just some thoughts.

I have a novel suggestion. How about upping the pets ai. Visible aoe like wells will force the pet to take a different route to target or wait to engage (2-3 seconds). Give the pet its own stamina bar and the ai to dodge an incoming attack periodically. This could be useless or useful depending on how you use it. We know you guys could do it. Why not try it out and see if it helps?

Shala.8352:

style.6173:

Condi specs are ANETs solution to those who can’t play zerker.

THIS.
why even bothering on playing condi mesmer when you can play burst? the answer is: you cant play burst berserker.

So we should all play burst specs. This is really insightful. Perhaps we should all get the same skills too. Maybe we should all play the same class (we already have the same skills). And perhaps just perhaps we should all have the same exact burst build no different traits or anything. You now to keep everything fair. We can burst each other in 1-5 seconds and the players with the fast twitch and great connections can have the most fun bursting a little bit quicker.

Yeah! Burst or bust all other builds mean you are a skill less noob who couldn’t fathom how hard it is to look at a target and watch them go down with insane burst. This went so well back in the 100 nades 100 blades 2 shot thief glory days. Yeah I can’t even understand why post after post begged to get rid or that “garbage”. Makes sense to bring it back.

It doesn’t matter. Really end of discussion because there isn’t one to be had. The last weekends’ players were allowed in ranked. So there is no reason to stop that trend as this point. I honestly do not care if the OP is upset. What he feels about it doesn’t really matter. And that may seem rude but this is a minor issue in a game mode where people do quite routinely and try builds against what they perceive “better” players as a norm. There was never a barrier to entry and there is no logical reason to put one up now over guessing the intentions of the player in the match. I have one matches and told people it’s a game. I got an angry tell once telling me that this is “serious”. You have no way of knowing if the player no matter how good or bad they are actually cares about the results of the match. Some people truly just come for the fight, or to play against the “better” players.

So op take no pinch of salt with this. This matter is not worth spending time discussing adnauseam. Let it go or get into some argument. Some people come here for actual discussion others just to argue. I could say this post could be just as annoying to forum visitors as beta testers are to you. For example if I said “WHY do I have to read post about hurt feelings ALL THE TIME!” and went on a rant about how I do not post that way and only bring meaningful discussion and Anet should do something based on rules I created by myself for myself should Anet waste resources to change it despite a long time policy of allowing it and a general community sentiment of not caring? I am not saying your post angers me (it does not) but it is hypocritical at it’s base nature.

My suggestion let go of it.

Last but not least your points one and two.

Beta players may be just as serious as you are about winning. Despite the data being wiped they may want the win albeit for different reasons just as much.

OP/Broken builds have existed in spvp from inception. they do now. Beta weekend or not they existed and are based generally on community sentiment toward the build. So broken and OP really based on Anet and the community can only comment on it.

Likely many of these new elites will have to be fine tuned at release or right around it. It could be op but who knows not enough data with just one match’s stats. For all we know a decent group clearing build will directly counter this. It is going to have to be about application and how easy it is to maintain vs a target built to survive condi pressure.

Cuchulainn.7421:

TheGuy.3568:

…Plethora of tips how to act vs. cond. mezzzzzzz

Uhm… Not to be spoilsport but these are a lot of points to consider only to kill one so called useless condition mesmer.

The more arguments u adduce how to kill a mesmer, the more illogicalness that this mesmer is useless /harmless or easy to fight against, esp. for scrubs.

/ 2 cents

Uhm… like I said the 1, 2, and 2.5 counter the primary sources of damage. The rest are just tips to fully counter the build and some variants. So……

We deserve something for this.