Guild Wars 2

Same.

/15char

Looks interesting. Thanks for the post.

Not to be off topic but could you imagine if ricochet was still around?

I have yet to fight this so I can’t say for sure what a good counter would be on engineer. I would if it were my engi stealth long before he did and pressure him. If you dodge the first round should be a pretty easy win.

Exedore.6320:

This would reinforce bad habits just as much. Everyone would zerg bosses in forest. It would teach DPS to stand on point, which is not where they want to be. If it was based on who capped the node, everyone stands on point until it caps for credit and then runs to the next point.

Fixing the scoreboard would be nice, but there are so many other areas on which it’s better to spend limited developer time.

Honestly that would be better than the current bad habit of skirmishing far off point, capping nodes is something you should do vs consistently just chasing. The bad habits a system like this would create would still lead to players doing things that assist the team in winning. Too many players duel off point as it is.

Lets be real here how many pugs have you seen zerg for kills with more individual points than the other team but they got out rotated? The positives would far outweigh the negatives.

Ele is the new ele and no I do not mean op just that things got shaved not hacked. Stop looking for the next thing to complain about and just play. So many of you are nursing wounds.

Good Tofu.9376:

TheGuy.3568:

Chokolata.1870:

See most people have assumed that I am either new at the game or completely oblivious to how Mesmer works. Neither is the case. I have quite a lot of games played. The issue is that the build can pump up so many conditions that I can’t keep up and simply run out of CDs to burn.

I am constantly being pressured by 6-7+ stacks of both torment and bleeding cleanse after cleanse alongside poison, burning and other fluff you mentioned. In the last game I played I was on my Ranger with the survival power build, which has as good condition removal as one can get on a Ranger, and after burning all my CDs to condi cleanse I was left exposed and my HP dropped from 100% to 20% within 3-4 seconds. I simply ran out of CDs. And I did not use my CDs to burn fluff as you have said.

So, my question from start is:

- Since Anet is very heavy handed in nerfing obnoxious spam builds, why does this exist where someone can just keep dodging, stealthing and spamming conditions at an insane amount.

There is no way you ended up in the situation if you didn’t Hit the block and eat the shatters.

Your HP no way got that low unless you spammed skills or were facing a burst power mesmer and you didn’t notice.

No matter how good you think you are you will get exposed as spammer if you are dying quick to it. There are no if and or buts about it.

Now to break it down further. The only way you got poison from the mesmer is if you sat in chaos storm or he had a sigil of doom in. In either case it should not have sustained long at 1 stack (possibly 2).

The bleeds mesmer (really) would be staff and clones (winds of chaos + sharper image) or Pistols phantasm. However if that were the case there would be no constant stealth. You could have used birds and had all those bleeds tossed back on you by the mesmer too (generosity or thievery).

Which likely means you let the clones stand or that damage came from else where.

Read 1,2, and 2.5.

My guess is you closed the gap and ate the shatters not maximizing 4->2->3 combo on long bow + taunt. Left all the clones standing and payed 0 attention to animations. Rushed in with the GS tried to land 3 and failed a lot.

In any case if you were not dueling then you just had a bad team. As a power (burst I hope so) you should have won unless you were getting reflected a lot but you said you went down to conditions solely. I have no doubt you got out played because a proper power burst with cc should have ate half his health real quick.

So if your story is true you are indeed completely oblivious to how mesmer works. Read my first post. And yes I play pew pew ranger a bit too.

This explanation is probably far too complicated for the OP to understand.

Just read my explanation (a few posts above) which has him just paying attention to movement and pressing 1 most of the time. I bet he’s literally standing in chaos storm the entire time and hitting the mesmers when they obviously have chaos armor intact.

Should work better for him.

Wasn’t trying to insult him but explain how I have been countered and counter. Imho this is all a bit pointless. Most matches i just want my team to hold 2 or out rotate when necessary. Condi mesmer is not a bunker killer or bursty it is a duelist and team support (if you do not run PU but Inspiration). In a team fight you are an ok +1 but not as good as a burst mesmer. Most players do not even realize this. they duel off point and say i got beat. I get beat on mesmer all the time but I win matches because I am where I need to be doing my job.

So we can explain this is how you beat the class that can’t even contest the point but it feels like this should be Tpvp 101 where you fit in the comp.

So lets dumb it down
Hard counters
-Condi transfer (Necro, Mesmer, any body with decent crit and generosity unlocked)
-Condi clearing (Guard, Ele, )

Good Counter
-Condi application (pu only) (Necro, Engineer,)
-Burst (most competent zerk builds, burn guard)

Chokolata.1870:

See most people have assumed that I am either new at the game or completely oblivious to how Mesmer works. Neither is the case. I have quite a lot of games played. The issue is that the build can pump up so many conditions that I can’t keep up and simply run out of CDs to burn.

I am constantly being pressured by 6-7+ stacks of both torment and bleeding cleanse after cleanse alongside poison, burning and other fluff you mentioned. In the last game I played I was on my Ranger with the survival power build, which has as good condition removal as one can get on a Ranger, and after burning all my CDs to condi cleanse I was left exposed and my HP dropped from 100% to 20% within 3-4 seconds. I simply ran out of CDs. And I did not use my CDs to burn fluff as you have said.

So, my question from start is:

- Since Anet is very heavy handed in nerfing obnoxious spam builds, why does this exist where someone can just keep dodging, stealthing and spamming conditions at an insane amount.

There is no way you ended up in the situation if you didn’t Hit the block and eat the shatters.

Your HP no way got that low unless you spammed skills or were facing a burst power mesmer and you didn’t notice.

No matter how good you think you are you will get exposed as spammer if you are dying quick to it. There are no if and or buts about it.

Now to break it down further. The only way you got poison from the mesmer is if you sat in chaos storm or he had a sigil of doom in. In either case it should not have sustained long at 1 stack (possibly 2).

The bleeds mesmer (really) would be staff and clones (winds of chaos + sharper image) or Pistols phantasm. However if that were the case there would be no constant stealth. You could have used birds and had all those bleeds tossed back on you by the mesmer too (generosity or thievery).

Which likely means you let the clones stand or that damage came from else where.

Read 1,2, and 2.5.

My guess is you closed the gap and ate the shatters not maximizing 4→2→3 combo on long bow + taunt. Left all the clones standing and payed 0 attention to animations. Rushed in with the GS tried to land 3 and failed a lot.

In any case if you were not dueling then you just had a bad team. As a power (burst I hope so) you should have won unless you were getting reflected a lot but you said you went down to conditions solely. I have no doubt you got out played because a proper power burst with cc should have ate half his health real quick.

So if your story is true you are indeed completely oblivious to how mesmer works. Read my first post. And yes I play pew pew ranger a bit too.

To be fair ele has been and should be king of sustain. I think a lot of this is going to come back to learning fundamentals.

Was it op? Imho not really. It had a hard counter in condis and made the pet a credible threat. The fact they let so much sit for months (PU, RoF, etc.) but toss out this nerf quick seems strange. In reality a few players got hit by it and I guess they didn’t want to deal with the complaining.

GrandHaven.1052:

TheGuy.3568:

The trap is usually where the ranger is standing because the points are small. Dodge through it or bait the ranger out (condi ranger usually has no lb). The animations for traps are obvious so just avoid the area or dodge through it and out.

Not hard to counter at all.

Except the CAP is invested by it, so what are you supposed to do?

Just leave them on cap and do what?

Dodge through the cap, then still gotta get off cap, then ranger just drops another round of traps.

So what do you do vs trappers?

Personally? I just out clear the condis. Not even joking. Or set a pet or clone to set it off. Or just range them because they are going to sit on the point with no way to retaliate as I drop nades or mortar. I mean it is build where if you Stop Dueling you will always win. CC (because his utilities are traps). Or just spike from ranged. They have to close the gap and sit on point to fight. While you should always fight on point they have kitten offense if you never close the gap. If you just want to kill it range his behind and watch him melt. If he closes the gap to you off point hell have to set up a trap to make any sort of competent offense. Which means no trap on cap and take it.
The traps have a small radius so if you are careful you can still contest larger points

This build is not immortal just cheesy and not even in the bad way.

Curunen.8729:

TheGuy.3568:

READ AND LEARN or Continue to whine

I am going to be a bit rude with this post because the counters are really simple.

Since the numerous passive traits were removed from this build (it has been nerfed into the ground for a while mind you) this is strictly a l2p issue. I mean this not as an insult but cold hard fact.

1. For the shatters kill the clones. They will have no uptime vs any competent cleaver. Clones dead equal no shatter burst.

2. Dodge the laser. Confusing Images has a 2 second cast if you dodge when you see it coming or on the first hit you will get very little of it.

1 and 2 alone and you have avoided most of the damage that could have been done to you hooray!

---

3. Bring a cleanse. This is common sense but mesmer doesn’t have much in the way of cover condis. Application can be high but not lasting.

4. Time your attacks. This is common sense. Condi mesmer pushes button spamming. Confusion and torment will not tick like a burn. You end up killing yourself by just spamming skills.

5. For PU apply condis. PU mesmers generally have weak condition management (vs Inspiration which have strong but weak stealth if any at all). If you apply condis many will have to back off.

6. STOP DUELING wait I forgot something STOP DUELING LIKE A NOOB. A good team or even a pug will have a guard or ele or inspiration mesmer than can clear condis for the group. If they are doing their job due to the lack of cover condis mesmer conditions are on the easy side to handle.

7. Generosity is your best friend. Much like Burn guard condi mesmer is weak at covering for itself so sending back the confusion and torment is pretty simple.

8. Call Target. Most condi mesmers will not stand up to spike for long if at all. Ctrl + T and have your team just burst.

9. Last but not least there is not much room to nerf it. Condi mesmer is actually one of the weakest condi builds. It has none of the burst of burn and none of the cover of engi and necro. It is hard countered (very hard) by signet necro and AoE. It has been nerfed of every passive condi application (confusion damage has been nerfed too). It is nearly a pure skill based build as in literally there are no lucky procs or on crit traits. The mesmer did all the work.

I can understand your point but this build will catch a bad player “slipping” every single time. A good player knows all of this already.

Now you know how to beat a condi mes. Your welcome.

Coming from a war/thief/ele/engi player (assuming that’s what you play based on your sig), I deeply appreciate your post.

Not going to lie they tell you to play to build to figure out where it is weak. So I did for 2 months with no PU CS or MtD. Eventually you just see all the gaps. Illusionary Counter (which I legit forgot because I haven’t seen anyone fall for this outside aoe spam in I do not know how long). The Animation is obvious. If hand is up do not touch the mesmer.

Thief – play your regular role. You can use lb to kill of the clones (they have little to no health). The is not sword Mes so a well planned spike will not be met with invul-> stealth -> invul. Plan your spike expect the shatter invul (distortion) and just make sure you have shadow step for cleanse (should have it anyway).

Warrior – current axe/sh + GS should not be losing to this at all.

Engi – Rifle/Nade (my beloved main) weak to condis but has more than enough cleave to kill the clones and cc → burst.

My ele has been shelved for years now. I have conscience. Ele has enough sustained, clearing, and pressure to kill this build or to simply outlast it. In a group setting I have yet to meet a competent ele who just rolled over to this. Much like guardian you can clear faster than the mesmer can apply large stacks (which it won’t if you are watching animations).

The trap is usually where the ranger is standing because the points are small. Dodge through it or bait the ranger out (condi ranger usually has no lb). The animations for traps are obvious so just avoid the area or dodge through it and out.

Not hard to counter at all.

It’s fine isn’kitten Least played class with likely the friendliest (for what passes for friendly around these parts I kid I kid) community doesn’t get much attention. In any case engineer are good at adapting. I am sure well make it work.

denis.9487:

denis.9487:

So if solo roaming doesn’t effect balancing. Stealth does not cap nodes in our pvp. In wvw stealth traps and others can sweep same as before. Why was pu nerfed?

The question wasn’t directed towards anyone. Just a question to inspire thought. Sorry if offense was perceived.

For the …sigh.. not all condi mesmers use PU. they do not go hand in hand for every build.

Some common knowledge. to solo roam you either need to be exceptionally strong at 1 v x (dueling) or capable of disengaging. Most players use stealth for both. So seeing a stealth heavy class (such as thief or mesmer), a 1 v x class (like dd ele) or a highly mobile class (like warrior, ele, thief or mesmer) is the norm. Dodging packs of players while running around solo is a feat within itself. It is hard even with limited stealth. Especially on higher tiered servers.

READ AND LEARN or Continue to whine

I am going to be a bit rude with this post because the counters are really simple.

Since the numerous passive traits were removed from this build (it has been nerfed into the ground for a while mind you) this is strictly a l2p issue. I mean this not as an insult but cold hard fact.

1. For the shatters kill the clones. They will have no uptime vs any competent cleaver. Clones dead equal no shatter burst.

2. Dodge the laser. Confusing Images has a 2 second cast if you dodge when you see it coming or on the first hit you will get very little of it.

2.5 Never hit the block. Illusionary counter (scepter 2) applies 5 stacks of torment. Most players in my mmr (not high or anything but this is consistent) just don’t hit it. No dodging required as the mesmer can’t attack outside instant skills (like shatters) for the duration. Animation is a raised forearm.

1 and 2/2.5 alone and you have avoided most of the damage that could have been done to you hooray!

3. Bring a cleanse. This is common sense but mesmer doesn’t have much in the way of cover condis. Application can be high but not lasting.

4. Time your attacks. This is common sense. Condi mesmer pushes button spamming. Confusion and torment will not tick like a burn. You end up killing yourself by just spamming skills.

5. For PU apply condis. PU mesmers generally have weak condition management (vs Inspiration which have strong but weak stealth if any at all). If you apply condis many will have to back off.

6. STOP DUELING wait I forgot something STOP DUELING LIKE A NOOB. A good team or even a pug will have a guard or ele or inspiration mesmer than can clear condis for the group. If they are doing their job due to the lack of cover condis mesmer conditions are on the easy side to handle.

7. Generosity is your best friend. Much like Burn guard condi mesmer is weak at covering for itself so sending back the confusion and torment is pretty simple.

8. Call Target. Most condi mesmers will not stand up to spike for long if at all. Ctrl + T and have your team just burst.

9. Last but not least there is not much room to nerf it. Condi mesmer is actually one of the weakest condi builds. It has none of the burst of burn and none of the cover of engi and necro. It is hard countered (very hard) by signet necro and AoE. It has been nerfed of every passive condi application (confusion damage has been nerfed too). It is nearly a pure skill based build as in literally there are no lucky procs or on crit traits. The mesmer did all the work.

I can understand your point but this build will catch a bad player “slipping” every single time. A good player knows all of this already.

Now you know how to beat a condi mes. Your welcome.

I never mained mesmer but have spent the last few months playing mine condi (no pu mtd or cs ever). What I have observed is probably one of the best builds I have ever played. One of the most balanced in terms of countering and being countered. I can not remember the last time I lost badly vs anything including cele necro. I love the fact if you are smart enough to kill my clones you stop the burst it makes sense. The days of passives doing all the work are ending for each class little by little.

Right now because of the way group cleanse works there really isn’t much you can say against condis outside 1 v 1. Condis should have their place just like zerk and sustained do. If you refuse to build to deal with condis that is up to you. The same way we have to deal with burst.

As far as stealth goes more counters are being added. Stealth is not the only defense condi mesmer has.

Tbh I am still relatively new to mesmer and it might be because of that that I do not miss the traits lost. Maybe coming from engi (which in my opinion requires a bit of juggling) I see the timing as more than burst and stealth. Some times being visible just makes the fight that easy (confusion).

Unholy Pillager.3791:

TheGuy.3568:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Ithilwen.1529:

For the record I don’t play PU. Ranger and Guardian heal now easily outheal my damage output as a condi Mesmer.

In addition, Ranger got yet another nuke-bow upgrade.

This is what I meant when I said that Mesmer had been kneecapped.

Why is everyone whining about rangers? They haven’t been to a World Tournament Series in…EVER. Ranger has never been competitive in tournaments. ArenaNet should continue buffing rangers until that changes. Having a single profession be so subpar for so long is destroying ANet’s credibility in regards to their ability to actually balance their own game.

*Many of you have some sort of misinformation going on. Whether a class has been to tournament or not, won a world championship or not, or are in the best team comps or not are of 0 consequence. *

Most players will never touch those things. they will never play in one. Balance CAN NOT be decided on these things. It has to be looked at as a big picture with the AVERAGE PLAYER in mind.

Even dropping that line of argument, rangers are still pretty widely discriminated against and inferior in dungeons, which does affect most players, and they are still inferior in sPvP. Pets are still plagued by bugs and poor AI. These are problems that should have been fixed years ago.

You are right. However dungeons (speed runs, high level fractals) are pure meta so many classes are simply left out of it due to the nature of PvE (note the is the PvP forums so it is pointless to mention here because much of PvE balance has been due to PvP changes and Anets no splitting policy). On that note usually (read my first post) top tier PvE players discriminate harshly vs some classes pugs usually do not care (account points hold more weight in most cases).

Inferior in PUGs vs is organized team is just a can of worms. Classes will never be completely equal that is a given. Perception should not be based on what top teams are doing solely. We have to look at most matches and see if there is a lack of rangers. Are they losing more than other players? We do not have access to this information. Bugs should have been fixed long ago, and honestly rangers have been in a rather precarious spot since day one. That being said I think PvP balance is so fluid that it becomes hard to stay balanced at all.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Ithilwen.1529:

For the record I don’t play PU. Ranger and Guardian heal now easily outheal my damage output as a condi Mesmer.

In addition, Ranger got yet another nuke-bow upgrade.

This is what I meant when I said that Mesmer had been kneecapped.

Why is everyone whining about rangers? They haven’t been to a World Tournament Series in…EVER. Ranger has never been competitive in tournaments. ArenaNet should continue buffing rangers until that changes. Having a single profession be so subpar for so long is destroying ANet’s credibility in regards to their ability to actually balance their own game.

*Many of you have some sort of misinformation going on. Whether a class has been to tournament or not, won a world championship or not, or are in the best team comps or not are of 0 consequence. *

Most players will never touch those things. they will never play in one. Balance CAN NOT be decided on these things. It has to be looked at as a big picture with the AVERAGE PLAYER in mind.

You have a point. However, whenever I see a question like this I wonder how many players are top tier pvpers and how many are “PUG stomping”. What should you really balance around the minority who can adapt easily or the majority who can not?

I haven’t played warrior in who knows how long. However, I will comment but I will get down to the base issue. There is no such thing as balanced roaming. You could end up in a 1 v 10 like that. You likely will not win. So no matter the roaming class you are going to have to play a build (when solo) that can do one of 2 things really well. Disengage or duel. Imho even with buff if a warrior overextends vs the the common roamer classes they will still end up in a pretty fair match.

As said before if you know the animations and buffs it becomes a game of waiting. If you spam abilities during that invul periods and don’t dodge what should the outcome be warrior loses? It really is simple dodge the damage burst when the invuls are over.

As far as rampage being op. If I am on engineer you’ll get moa’d right out and I might pop rampage (50/50 odds) myself. If I am on condi mesmer you just left yourself wide open and I will likely win once used. Thief stealth and wait it out or harass. It has some hard counters and the duration isn’t that long. If you pop it do not feel it is op. It really is pretty balanced.

53% and honestly I have never thought about this. I just play the match. I assume I will lose half because I am not some top rank player and I usually face the same people over and over. I figure if we are all around the same skill level (minus some outliers) I should lose half my matches. That seems fair to me. That being said I usually just go into each match and try to have a bit of fun and work toward achievements.

I could see people trying with troll this. How about you have to be behind to use it (I know common sense but still needs to be mentioned), you have to be 150+ points behind, and the other team has to be above the 300 point mark. I think something like this would ensure that abuse would not happen. There should probably be some penalty for over using it….maybe.

Playing my condi mesmer (I have never played it with pu or cs and this patch did not touch my build in anyway) I have yet to get spiked by that build with no chance of winning. It really is a one trick pony imho.

Solori.6025:

Curunen.8729:

If condi mesmer takes Inspiration (mender’s purity, restorative illusions, mantra heal…) and generosity sigils, then easy win.

Condi mesmer builds aren’t married to PU.

If only condi clear is the pledge and perhaps mantra of resolve, then… they will get burnt hard if they aren’t very careful and kite a lot.

…..In the title though ( and the OP) he specifically asked about PU though … :I

I missed that too. In that case PU could try but would likely lose. I have been playing inspiration condi shatter lately. My clearing is slightly faster than there application ( dodging, not getting caught going in and out of circle). Beating them isn’t that complex 1 v 1 but with PU I would imagine you just couldn’t clear fast enough.

Depends on the players. In general condi mesmer should win.

This is part of why I have solo roamed since day one. Running around with a zerg on T1 is not challenging.

@insanemaniac.2456 I know these weren’t directed at me but they sounds fun to answer.

have you ever soloed a keep, tower, or sm? Tower yep, Keep on duoed, SM not an option in T1

have you ever soloed a 250 camp? Yes.

have you ever killed a guarded yak (by 5x+ more ppl than your group)?Yes than laughed too my hearts content.

have you ever won a 1v3 or better? Yes.

have you ever gotten a kill on a person or siege behind a closed gate? Yep.

have you ever thought about finding a different person to follow? I am in One Player Army there has only been one player ot follow ME!

do you carry 20? Naw my point are all over the place though I should shoot for this could be useful.

I think most roamers would say yes to most of these. OP is playing an entirely different game imho. Roaming vs Zerging are like apples and oranges.

shion.2084:

why 69 silver? wouldn’t 20 for betraying the profession wide secret that we are actually the most OP class be more appropriate?

…Most OP ….class this guy..he has jokes. Now hush before you spread any more of those lies. We are just so up.

I have been running my mesmer a lot lately. I really loathe PU and CS so I made a build without either. In most cases (considering it is a condi build) I do fine roaming in WvW. I can 1 v x not to win just to disengage and survive. I think PU is a bit of a crutch now. You really do not need it but, it is too good to pass up in many builds.

Mitch.4781:

Burning SHOULD be powerful.

You are right but burning should not be this powerful. Tune down the stacks and you can leave the formula the same.

Usually you have to say something first. In 3 years of play I have had only 3 occasions where i got tells from players I said nothing to. In any case you can just block the player who is bothering you. If you aren’t willing to take that simple step than you have no real reason to complain as the solution is provided to you already.

Wolfey.3407:

ozzy.8059:

love how people instantly assume i afk in these situations….

A poor title is probably a reason

If i make a thread called
Death to Charrs
then complain about charrs

Would it be unreasonable for people to expect that I want charrs to die?

Work on your thread titles and the wording of your threads.

May as well afk

Not

Just AFK

or

I AFK

May as well afk

The OP is equating fighting a team with 2 eles while his team has none to having results nearly identical to not fighting in the match at all.

This does not mean he is AFK but, simply conveying the idea that not fighting and fighting eles produce the same results ie a loss.

The sad part is rampant emotions, lack of understanding, and greatest of all jumping to conclusions leads to these types of misinterpretations and misunderstandings all the time. The penchant of many to read the title solely skipping the body of the first post is the root cause in this case. People seem to hate to read and love to write.

If any of you fail to understand that you need to read more.

GrandHaven.1052:

As an Engineer main the Engineer forum is pretty positive in general.

We just want our bugs fixed, that the only negative aspect.
That and explosives being a mess.

Yep. It isn’t all dome and gloom there. That being said don’t make post like this OP. Unless you are willing to read each forum’s threads taking random thread titles is just silly.

Mnemesis.8257:

Horus.9685:

you also still have the option to blast with ft and pick the turret up

Sure this is always an option, but that also has repercussions. Not everyone is blessed with impeccable ping rates, which could directly result in natural turret death in constructed group scenarios (i.e. dungeons). That aside it also forces one to re-evaluate the use of an effective combo blast from healing turret. Push on death mechanic directly conflicts with both intended and consequential turret death for such content. The problem is not due to the mechanic, but rather that it is forced upon you when you take the Explosives line.

IgnisVulpesXI.3015:

Also, please note I’m not against the change just for the sake of being against. It’s just I find the knockback very useful in PvP for some breathing room against classes that don’t respect my personal space C=

Keep in mind that no one is asking for it to be removed either. It just seems sensible that not everyone is going to find this to be an advantageous mechanic across the board when it should have been left as an optional trait like before.

Then it should be said bluntly. It you are willing to be this optimized then you might as well bring another meta class. Not to be rude but if all replies start with “But this” or “but that” then you have an issue of simply being argumentative

. Here you have some advice on how to bypass the issue and you undermine and ignore it. So why not make it about the base issue? If you do not like it do not use it. If it undermines your meta build that much use another class. Defiance stacks are large after the first counter and tend to need peeling if one knock back ruins your stacking or you are not willing to summon the turret a bit farther away (as the field is quite large) then you might as well play another class for all this difficult content until it is changed.

For innovative and PvP engineers this is actually a decent trait. And that actually has to be noted. In PvP and WvW where cc and rupts tend to matter more this is a nice bonus for many builds. In PvE while there are less uses there are many effective alternatives to get the blast finisher so it really is not an issue given our decent access through FT and EG.

One last note. Given queuing issues if your ping is bad then your turret should not work properly anyway.

Look any solution other than lowering the stacks, increasing the cds, or reducing the damage of burning is just silly and short sighted. The goal is not the ruin burning but, to bring it inline with other damaging conditions. The goal is not to make condis useless or, make them op.

If you have an issue like this usually the simple answer is the best. Convoluted ideas that make for more cleansing, bringing other conditions up, or nerfing burns into obscurity are not just dumb but irresponsible. Anet can make their choice. Do some big changes which further moves the meta, ignore the issue for half a year, or do some simple nerfs to bring burning inline but not to kill it.

Anything other than the three things I said in the first line is just bad and, would likely be made by some self serving player who doesn’t actually care about pvp and, balance and, just cares about removing a potential opponents’ builds or, making their own better.

/off soap box

/doesn’t care about responses

A player threatened to DDOS attack me in a tell. Right after I had a connection issue. I wont post his name or the ss I took not trying to name and shame but there is nothing in game for this. I have never run into this issue in the last 2 and a half years and I am not sure how to report it. Just fyi I had 0 communication with the player directly.

thank you for the help in advance.

^ This guy gets it.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

@TheGuy

Anet is holding balance hostage… in general… What is that even supposed to mean? Of course Anet balances the game. It’s their job. Saying they hold it hostage because you don’t like how they balance is idiotic at best.

Sigh… take the blinders off please.

Anet can split the skills make them work entirely different in PvP, WvW, and PvE. They refuse to citing that it would be confusing for new players but with a player base this old and noting that it worked in GW1 it doesn’t make sense. Likely the amount of work required to balance all 3 is just too staggering in their opinion. So most of the game is balanced around PvP (due to esport). However, PvP players in general want PvP balance and have little or nothing to say on PvE balance or WvW balance. PvP players additionally rarely get balance just metas where a few builds are the strongest and many others just aren’t up to par.

Now I am not going to assume you are stupid just argumentative. You want to prove something go and try to if that will make you feel better. However, in case you are a bit daft let me paint you a picture.

PvP, WvW, and the PvE community all ask for balance. Anet holds balance in a cage. They try and get sit down meetings with Anet to discuss the release of balance but the situation has very little communication from the captor. When there is communication the response is something along the lines of “good things are coming”, this urges these communities to play on while waiting for balance’s release from imprisonment. However, during the wait many players give up. It takes too long and they either leave or say they will return when balance does. Everyone once in a while Anet releases a prisoner and calls it balance. It looks like balance at first but turns out to be another impostor. They do this often to the PvP community, rarely if ever to the PvE and WvW community. The PvE and WvW community usually knowing little of each other and PvP community sometimes lash out saying something along the lines of, “Anet is giving you balance but why not us? This is unfair!”. Little do they know no one is really getting balance.

Anet = Captor
Balance = Prisoner/Hostage
PvE, PvP, and WvW communities = The people paying the ransom

I think we are done now.

Might sound rude but then again it is. Stop being stupid. Condi, Power, Sustained. All of them get kittened about at one point or the other. This is WvW not 1 v 1 not (s)PvP. You have food, skills, and sigils to mitigate or ignore condis almost entirely. The thing is no one and I mean no one brings them.

I remember during the burst meta some one suggested running soldiers. Players as usual balked and kittened left and right. Other players said, “If you can’t beat em join em”. Some other player smart enough to see the forest for the trees just adapted by changing gear and builds.

It saddens me to see the community with the most amount of options to counter anything still can’t seem to handle silly things. Eat some lemongrass, get a sigil of generosity or cleansing, use those clear skills, stack vitality, and cut the bs.

kdaddy.5431:

If anyone watched the wts, all of these people had stalemate fights in 1 vs 1 situation. Rom looked like he was gonna beat Nos in there 1 vs 1 on temple. Also Nos beat a cele ele 1 vs 1. Lets also mention wakkey and/or phataram lost a 1 vs 1 to the burn guardian. I hate to say this but this complaining about things on the forum is all of us not being good enough.

Seriously mad respect to the TCG,Abjured and ORNG cause they make the things people complain about on this forum look stupid.

You can’t compare a community this big to the best players out there. That would be like going to every pick up game of basketball in the world and saying, “If you can’t hoop like Kobe or Lebron you do not deserve to play at all.” You just can’t compare the NBA to pick up games.

These are organized teams who have played together and know each other. Their team work and skills are some of the best out there. There are no “cheese” builds for them just winning and losing and how best to accomplish that.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

You said that Anet IS holding the balance hostage, and you imply that the people who disagree with that don’t understand the other game modes. Whether you blame Anet or the players doesn’t matter in that context if you’re wrong either way. Anet is not holding balance hostage for PvP.

Smh…sigh… take the blinders off please.

Anet is holding balance hostage in general. I did not say for PvP just that they are responsible for it. We do not control balance they do. Every meta is based on their decisions in the long run. We have little to no power over it we just adapt no matter the game mode. We can’t blame each other for this when none of us are at fault. We are all just customers.

I use words like “some” and “general” because not all A are B. Some players have a view about other game modes that paints things very black and white with little consideration or compassion. If you read many of the responses they trivialize the OPs frustration. His points you can take or leave but it does not change the fact he seems angry.

On a personal note to you. I get tired of people looking just to argue. Implying things I never said just looking to prove themselves right or wrong. Not everything has some deeper context. What I said was plain as day with a touch of sarcasm. “you imply that the people who disagree with that don’t understand the other game modes.” Nope not at all. Just that they should consider the OP is angry too. I get this “Let me prove this guy wrong!” attitude but I just do not feel like bothering anymore. I said my piece. If you want to find something to point out in what I said or read something into it that isn’t there that is up to you. You can solo that. The bold part is what really matters to me anyway.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

You’re also assuming that people disagree because they don’t understand those other game modes. I play a lot of PvP, WvW, GvG, and PvE with a little roaming mixed in. I still think the OP is wrong about their conclusions.

Did I say OP was right or that he is frustrated like everyone else?

morrolan.9608:

Why blame PvP players? Anet could balance separately for PvP and PVE/WvW they just choose not to.

This is actually the point. Anet held it hostage not the PvP community.

On another note WvW for roamers and small guilds is not blob v blob. Some (some) pvp require things like skill, timing, and game knowledge.

While it is nice to think that the world outside of PvP is simple and boring other people enjoy what you don’t. OHH what a shock! The same thing the OP said about PvP is basically what the PvP community in general thinks of PvE and WvW.

A little mutual respect (different strokes for different folks and all) would go a long way.

Do not trivialize the OP’s problem but understand he is just as frustrated as many of you are with the game mode he enjoys. He is simply targeting the wrong people.

The problem is simple. The stack application per skill is too high. Not the burning it damage it self just the number of stacks applied. If all the skills that say apply 3 stacks of burning or more only applied 1 or 2 this likely would not be an issue at all. I do not think there needs to be a hard cap.

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

MMOs are the most difficult games to make and keep going.

Poeple want something new. Then they get something new and cry because it is different from what they’re used to be playing.
Then they get the same stuff they’ve been used to, and then complain because there isn’t anything new.

That first line is just plain wrong. Why? If that were true none of these games would have been made. If it is not profitable it doesn’t get made simple as that. You guys worry about player bleed but I will be frank with you old school mmo players know that there is a point where the game starts losing money. It has to do with how many players have subs. But but …we have no subs! Well little ones let me explain what the model is.

The game is B2P with an item mall. Some players have more money and are dedicated to the game. As new items, expansions, etc. come out they will buy those items. For how long? Years if not decades. While many players will look at pop and state, “The sky is falling!”, players who have seen this for years know that it is not. The pop starts high and dwindles over time. THIS IS THE NORM.

Many of you go to the failure of the p2p AAA mmos as a reason for the dying of this market. Define failure? Of those that “failed” how many went f2p and live on? How many developers knew this would happen? If you think about it you will realize they are still making money off this genre.

The other part is in the OP itself. How many forums did he stop by? How many of those games did he purchase or make a micro transaction in? Tera, DCUO, WoW, Neverwinter I have played them all. How many of you have? The MMO market is crowded and people eat from many troughs. Like a herd they migrate from one game to the other.

Last but not least new mmos springing up over and over again is indicative that the population of people playing mmos is not shrinking. In fact it is growing but maybe not on the PC itself. From smart phones, to consoles mmo are being developed for them and are already in wide use.

So while mmorpgs like GW2 may seem to be losing population that does not mean they are hitting the point where they can not make money because they are making more money than ever.

……However, here is the caveat. Popularity in the WEST just doesn’t match up to the EAST. They have more players who live by mmo (Look at lineage the ORIGINAL 1998 Lineage btw another reason the first line is plain wrong). They spend more money on it and devote more time over all to it.

Gonna modify this qoute from “Thank You for Smoking”

“We don’t sell Tic Tacs, we sell MMOs. And they’re cool, available, and addictive. The job is almost done for us.”

I think Phineas answered most of your question.

To put it simply if you build for it you’ll be fine 1v1. In some cases 1 v x too. It is really down to build and for that reason it’s not as simple as a yes or no question.

In that same sense PvP or WvW? I can tell you know I fight just fine 1v1 in WvW but in PvP I rarely try to put myself in that situation. Certain classes like mesmer and ele (not just in this meta but most) are strong duelist by nature. Engineer can be but requires lots of timing. So if you aren’t accustomed to engineer playstyle you may lose many duels.

There is qq if you look for it. Imho (truly just an opinion) the engi player base that visits the forums are full of long time engineer players. good meta bad meta they are still likely to play engineer. So they have lots of information to give. If you look at some of the above post you’ll see hints of qq but not full blown,“this class sucks” level complaints. Why? Because engineer is a diverse class with lots of tools. For the most part we have no true one trick pony builds left. So even if you nerf one thing there are others to compensate.

On a side note I have been roaming just fine solo in WvW since the update.

I will toss in one more. We run some of the most complex hardest to actually land builds in the game. I think some people take a bit of pride in that.

Knox.8962:

TheGuy.3568:

I would probably hold off going condi. Since it relies on burning and as of the moment it will likely be nerfed in the future I would hold off making that hefty investment.

Using a full set of Rabid Gear/Trinkets is only about 5.4% DPS loss over a full sinister build. This should be quite a bit easier to acquire for those who are wanting to try it .

Yeah that is true. What I meant was don’t get too attached or spend too much on it (like converting ascended armor). Since balance is PvP based and the stacks are kind of an issue. I would not be surprised if it was nerfed in the future. That being said who knows how long it will be if ever. Zerker is still ok but I would imagine the “fastest burn possible” crowd would be heavily invested in end game PvE ie Fractals. If that is the case their investment would likely cost them quite a bit. I mostly WvW and PvP but I figure it best to hold off going to far with the investment if you have a set that works already. If you have the funds and love this class go for it but the OP seems to be new to the idea of “engineer” and “dps” being associated.

PierPiero.9142:

condi eng is strong but it is far less strong than before june patch. The fact that now you can not take explosive and incendiary powder was a good nerf ( right in my opinion ).
In this moment, for me , elixir condi engi can be stronger . Try it with rabid, eg, elixir S elixir B … it is quite op. Take the build in draft of metabattle and modify it with balthazar sigils and elixir X as elite ( for pvp at least ) . With 6 sec stealth every 17 sec, 6 sec 5 stab every 17 sec and elixir S every 24 secs or so ( from trait of alchemy and for elixir) it is really op. And toolkit elixir X helps you a lot against necroes …

Those numbers are way off. This build isn’t OP its just not possible. You wont get much from those runes of balthazar either if you aren’t running FT.

Necro current meta has 2 skill that go through block. A good one will use them to interrupt TK shield.

What does what top teams run have to do with the PvP community as a whole? ‘The top 1% do this’, the rest of us aren’t in that spot no matter how lofty your self image is. You do not judge what it balanced based off of the highest level of play with organized teams with strats. It really is just bad logic.

I would probably hold off going condi. Since it relies on burning and as of the moment it will likely be nerfed in the future I would hold off making that hefty investment.