Guild Wars 2

Negated.4105:

When vsing a D/D Ele with 2 other playrs ith them it’s tough, which to kill is the hoice, the others then the Ele will ahve his setups completed, he’ll have all his boons up and be too hard to kill, how to handle it in a group, you might take a few down, but youeven if you kill the Ele or down him he’ll get picked back up, how to initiate is to back of, change your utilities.

You need at least 5 or 10 into Power> Apply poison on each steal, and 10 if you want potent poison = 22% increase on venom duration.

You need on your utilities Spider Venom is a must to take out D/D Ele as a Condition/Crit Damage build, make sure you do not waste this skill, watch out for mist forms, need to use steal, or hold steal if you are speedy and apply poison each time he tries to kite you when hes down to 75% HP they will begin to kite and heal up with every cast, ts about how you play mainly, if you can bait him, make him think like hes pushing you back, hide behind trees, use mobs in wvw to get the backstab up, or the pistol blleed stacking skilll, keep pressure all the time and they panic between skills, to either switch between damage or to heal over the damage or to use mist form, or even to use ride the lighting to escape, the problem with ele is that they ahve 4 attunement, once you got him panicking he will mix his order up, his skill rotation.

Hope this helped, you really do need Spider Venom you won’t kill any good Ele’s who know what there doing without it.

Hahahaha NO! that doesn’t happen. In fact that never happens. How long do you think it took our muscle memory to kick in? I’m at 300 hours I don’t mix up attunements (good ele run some general rotations so no we won’t mix them up). Ranger requires me to push one more button than ele. Honestly ask on our forums you get used to it.

Today while killing a vet in WvW a P/D thief “jumped” me. Spammed venoms etc. Let me tell you how it ended. Him down me at 80% health and he force logged. We were the same level he got me to 50% He kept his gaps and venoms up but none of that will help. We both get the option to bail at any time he didn’t.

Your advice is bad not because it will never work but it wont work vs an experienced ele.

Let me break it down. Just like when a zerg chases me (happened earlier today) and cant kill me it comes down to 1 thing. Either you have immobilize or you don’t. If you don’t forget it. Its not going to happen give it up.

One build will drop a DD ele backstab burst. As long as shocking isn’t up you just got a free kill unless we see it coming.

The number of wipes most DD have equals a lot! Here’s what your likely going to deal with http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Fire http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Wave_ http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Wave and via http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evasive_Arcana and possibly http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Water and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Water

Figure at least 3 of these.

Best option is using immobilize immobilize immobilize. the more you use it the more pressure you put on the ele. Once you realize this you can pressure and win.

Mogar.9216:

I’m a ele, here because I have a theif alt. I play S/D but basiclly same build as DD. To be honest if the Ele is good it will be at best a draw.

Same story. S/D alt tanky but yeah should end draw.

S/D shockingly has all the tools to drop a DD ele its just going to take a min.

Nekroseth.5186:

Ranger and Ele are quite good Combo fielders, exspecially for healing, but they need someone that can finish a LOT, exspecially blast. And you barely find anyone, besides bow thief that can spam it.

I am personally looking for an anwser on : what are Eles support and healing skills?
I personally prefered Mesmer, but sucked when it came to healing. I started playing Necro and it is quite powerfull for PvE dungeons. But most of the support came from traits.

Are there any decent heals for ele besides Geyser?

Yeah ranger thief would be insane.

This is complex because a lot goes into it. First off a lot of the group healing/support we do deal with just attuning. However for the sake of simplicity will forget about protection and cleanses and deal with just healing.

Lets start wity http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Attunement that will give your team regen once you go into water. Then http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Ripple the beauty of this skill it scales with healing power in PvE at 100 percent. Then you have http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soothing_Mist for more passive healing.

Depending on your build http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evasive_Arcana will give you another heal in the form of http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Wave on rougly a 10 sec cd on top of that http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Churning_Earth as a blast finisher.

If your staff http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Rain and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Geyser will serve as group healing and water fields.

If you go deeper you’ll find we cleanse conditions regularly provide protection and can might boost the team to an incredible extent as long as your traited for it. Most of the support we provide is passive due to players rarely sitting still.

Not even going to go into the upper limits of auramancer makes all other support look rather pitiful. Our support options are wide its not all healing we can boost dps too so its kind of hard to boil it down to just heals.

READ AND LEARN!

Did you even read the combat log?

First off to point out That thief wasn’t even using backstab that was Sword/Dagger. He stealth all of once. The numbers he put out aren’t far off from my own thief S/D and since I run P/V/T it seems consistent that hes wasn’t true burst. On top of that you never hit him. What makes this even sadder he killed you with auto attack and and finished the chain once http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crippling_Strike which is the hardest hitting skill. He gap closes you twice once at the start (steal) another in the middle (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Strike). Trait I can tell you he used by looking at the numbers are http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mug for sure and likely http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Executioner he procs sigil of air once.

There is a chance he pushed quickness but that as normal combo takes forever. This is a fight you should have won (given the fact hes not actually shutting you down see http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tactical_Strike). You have so many tools to win this type of fight that there’s no need to point each one out.

You also failed to link your healing power (810 in my build). Your stats are better than mine Defensively and offensively in terms of raw power bu this is a fight i probably would have won (at the very least it would have taken forever to down me his dps is middle of the road). As far as the numbers and your Defense those number are correct. That should have been a very long fight (those are not big numbers). So honestly I think this came down to a failure or your part OP. You stood there and he hit you its as simple as that.

TL;DR

Read the wall too many of you are grossly miss informed.

Zaviel.1245:

Incorrect; the best for group healing involves two Elementalists. One uses staff-water, the other uses lightning hammer. The staff elementalist could even drop down a lightning hammer for an ally so having two eles isn’t even required.

Well “incorrect” is a little harsh. Considering I linked the skill to show its not only the longest up time 15 seconds on a water field and a 30 second cool down. Its is factually the best up time on a water field in game and has the strongest healing of a water field skill in (being a main heal and all). That part wasn’t up for debate.

However, what you say adds to the complexity. A staff ele with a ranger could literally pull off the blast in the rangers field drop a hammer and then let the ranger do the blast in the ele field up time would be rather long. It might also be possible to have drakes pull off their blast finisher in the field.

Just as title says best class to healing combo with. So far I have found ranger running their http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Spring + EA S/D or S/F to be monster healing. I find about the same when I run with staff ele more when they are pulling off blast too.

Razarei.2809:

What separates the good from the bads are those that experiment and evaluate based on their own experiences.

Focus is far superior to dagger in the off-hand, offensively, and defensively. Why focus is not used, is because of my first statement. Learn to play your class.

Your first statement is completely correct. Your second is a joke. Both are useful. In WvW over dagger is smarter. Is that always the case? Nope. Overall if you had to stand in one spot your better off with the focus. If your in limited space your better off with the focus. VS ranged dps your better off with the focus. Same with ranged situations.

VS multiple mobs Your better off with dagger. Room to kite dagger. CC dagger. Healing Dagger. And DPS all go to dagger.

Its not that complex most of the time you’ll want mobility dagger enhances that focus makes you tougher.

As far as good and bad goes its about your level of play and knowledge. The only thing that separates a good from a bad player is is how good or bad you are, no more no less.

I’m a BEASTMASTER!

Just a shout out to anyone who went this route and to discuss beastmastery and its failures and triumphs.

On few occasions my wolf’s aoe fear has saved my life on a down.

You cant skip books. I tried and you cant. This is a real pro tip if its making money then run AC (Ascalonian Catacombs) path 2 for cash. Use the http://gw2lfg.com/lfgs and just post that your forming a party for money runs. You’ll make all the cash you’ll need in very little time.

I can do it on S/D + Short bow crit/tanky. Only real rule is drop the scouts first no matter the build.

This is stupid because its stupid. Many of the unused traits are designed around stealth being defense plus passive healing and condition removal. It took me a long time (and leveling a thief myself ) to see how fragile the class is without stealth.

And even aoe go ahead do that. D/D ele every single attack on my bar is aoe.

Durzlla.6295:

TheGuy.3568:

TimeBomb.3427:

NdranC.5107:

Berengar.6951:

ride the lightning is more likely to save you from a zerg than any focus skill

Quoted for truth.

As somebody who wants to love focus and has used both D/D and D/F quite a lot, I third this fact.

Speaking of focus, I came across the most interesting D/F ele I’ve ever seen in WvW recently. He was a burst D/F ele, and did it quite well. I don’t know much about his build other than that he was an auromancer; almost always had fire aura up. He would come in and kill someone squishy in 1-2 seconds or get someone not so squishy down to 10-20% HP.

He would run away after that, and when he didn’t, his DPS was somewhat bleh-ish. Focus’ defensive abilities allowed him to mingle with a small crowd of enemies for a little while after he did his initial burst. Nonetheless, I think he’d find it hard pressed to play a style other than gimping a solo or small group of enemies with his build. It was quite neat to see the build though; quite creative.

Focus can be a monster but quoting this for truth to the 4th. If your look at all the skills on paper S/F looks like a monster because you could might stack to kingdom come do it ranged (in spots) and still have blinds and defense past anything you can get on any other set.

Whats the problem?

The longer you play this game the more you realize the best defense in the game is simply not getting hit. This game was not really designed around mobile fortress tank (there are some though). CC and evade are the best defenses in the game. Dagger does this better and heals for more.

Some players swear by swirling winds but I will tell right now when a zerg comes you’ll thank your lucky stars you have daggers.,

I’ve always been happier that i have my focus… Sig of Air gets me around fast enough and a swirling wind prevents any ranged cripples from getting to me as i book it, plus a nice magnetic surge should i actually get hit by any cripples/ i need to make sure ranged snares/immobs aren’t going to get me, and worst case scenario if the zerg does get me and i’m with other people i can obsidian flesh, become immune to all damage for 4 seconds (this tends to make 99% of a zerg switch targets) allowing me to escape especially since it also makes you immune to more oncoming conditions. Focus is the KING of not taking hits, what does dagger do? It has 2 melee ranged knock downs (one of which forces you to roll backwards) a heal + condi removal, a chill for people that hit you (all of which are on 40+s CDs) and Ride the lightning.

Focus has a reflect, a projectile destroyer (destroys ALL projectiles, not just reflectable ones), a 3s chill that doesn’t require your face being kicked in, an aoe daze (all of which are on a 25 or 30s CD), a 2s KD and a 4s invuln to ALL damage (both on a 50s CD), i’d say focus has a significant advantage on avoiding stuff, especially if you’re at range when the zerg shows up (face it if you’re not at range when you’re alone when the zerg shows up you’re dead regardless of what you’re using since immob will stop your R/L in its tracks).

I can boil your whole point down to one skill “and Ride the lightning.”

As far as immobilize goes its a killer on all classes save warrior traited and thief. That being said. This is the part you need to read and realize you have no argument against. On DD when I see the zerg I can literally out run them. The other thing you need to understand is 1 of these “2 melee ranged knock downs (one of which forces you to roll backwards)” the roll backward is an evade and swiftness. Turning your camera while on the run means that if someone catches up to you not on do you knock them down, gain swiftness, create distance, but kitten you even evade incoming attacks.

“99% of zergs give up” I am sorry but I find that hard to believe the only thing that makes zergs give up is out running them or stealth that’s its.

On a lesser not not dealing wit the sets your an ele right? So cut the bs 2 cantrips take care of immobile plus both sets have condition removal. The only time immobilize gets us is if we were fighting already beside that we all know its a non issue.

I know you feel passionate about focus but this false info is bad for the community. In WvW mobility is king. It has nothing to do with how many hits you can take it has to do with how well you bail out of bad situations. It doesn’t matter if your a mobile fortress or not. Survival boils down to 2 things. Wither you out run the pack or you stealth. Thats it end of story.

Maxes out with the highest available ie 33% swiftness.

Edit:

For QC http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Speed is the fastest you can run with the full set. To add to that point since swiftness stack with nothing and on many builds we have access to perma swiftness passive speed boost are usually a waist.

Due to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speedy_Kits engineer is the class with the easiest access to swiftness so you wont gain much.

TimeBomb.3427:

NdranC.5107:

Berengar.6951:

ride the lightning is more likely to save you from a zerg than any focus skill

Quoted for truth.

As somebody who wants to love focus and has used both D/D and D/F quite a lot, I third this fact.

Speaking of focus, I came across the most interesting D/F ele I’ve ever seen in WvW recently. He was a burst D/F ele, and did it quite well. I don’t know much about his build other than that he was an auromancer; almost always had fire aura up. He would come in and kill someone squishy in 1-2 seconds or get someone not so squishy down to 10-20% HP.

He would run away after that, and when he didn’t, his DPS was somewhat bleh-ish. Focus’ defensive abilities allowed him to mingle with a small crowd of enemies for a little while after he did his initial burst. Nonetheless, I think he’d find it hard pressed to play a style other than gimping a solo or small group of enemies with his build. It was quite neat to see the build though; quite creative.

Focus can be a monster but quoting this for truth to the 4th. If your look at all the skills on paper S/F looks like a monster because you could might stack to kingdom come do it ranged (in spots) and still have blinds and defense past anything you can get on any other set.

Whats the problem?

The longer you play this game the more you realize the best defense in the game is simply not getting hit. This game was not really designed around mobile fortress tank (there are some though). CC and evade are the best defenses in the game. Dagger does this better and heals for more.

Some players swear by swirling winds but I will tell right now when a zerg comes you’ll thank your lucky stars you have daggers.,

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

TheGuy.3568:

DaveGan.8065:

TheGuy.3568:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

I would hope they don’t play WvW. If you’re an ele in WvW and you don’t have a focus in your inventory for swirling winds, you’re wrong.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swirling_Winds 6 seconds of projectile nullification is not enough to justify the weapon by itself.

From The Wiki Page You Linked

This spell can be used to nullify catapult and trebuchet projectiles

IIRC it’s also the only skill that can do this.

So I post this huge pros and cons list and that’s all you see. Your insight is amazing. The best defense is to move out of the circle. Like I said before 6 seconds is not enough to justify the weapon alone but I guess you missed that part even though you managed to quote it.

The trebuchet blocking isn’t for you. It’s for your keep/tower.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Yes because you have to have the weapon equipped 100% of the time, the possibility of you using another weapon and having a focus in inventory to block projectiles is completely illogical.

If you’re in WvW as an ele and you don’t have a focus either equipped or in your inventory, you are wrong.

Answer both of you in one go. True you can block some but how many attacks is it really? 1 maybe 2. If your taking a keep due to our speed were more useful running supplies and other duties. Let me say it a gain its 6 seconds. It doesn’t mean as much as you think. Now play with focus all you like it has its ups, many in fact, but don’t act like its a requirement for WvW. With it a equipped a player like me sees you as a sitting duck no more no less.

The way your thinking is too limited. I actually take the time to do my homework and figure out the downfalls of using weapon sets in pvp. That “your wrong” if you don’t have a focus crap doesn’t cut it as you give up a lot to use a focus. If you don’t realize that its your won problem. The focus might be useful but it is by no means necessary.

DaveGan.8065:

TheGuy.3568:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

I would hope they don’t play WvW. If you’re an ele in WvW and you don’t have a focus in your inventory for swirling winds, you’re wrong.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swirling_Winds 6 seconds of projectile nullification is not enough to justify the weapon by itself.

From The Wiki Page You Linked

This spell can be used to nullify catapult and trebuchet projectiles

IIRC it’s also the only skill that can do this.

So I post this huge pros and cons list and that’s all you see. Your insight is amazing. The best defense is to move out of the circle. Like I said before 6 seconds is not enough to justify the weapon alone but I guess you missed that part even though you managed to quote it.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

I would hope they don’t play WvW. If you’re an ele in WvW and you don’t have a focus in your inventory for swirling winds, you’re wrong.

If your an ele in wvw with a focus unless your taking a keep your slow. So slow in fact not only will you not be able to chase any one down but despite your defense your too slow to run away. In WvW switching sets on an ele is a big decision. If the Zerg finds you and your in focus to put is quite frank your screwed. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swirling_Winds 6 seconds of projectile nullification is not enough to justify the weapon by itself.

No one skill in any ele build will every justify the set. There are too many synergies that go on. Instead of arguing that one skill makes the weapon set look at focus over all.

Focus- Where its equal or better than dagger in the off hand-

1. Has better active defense than dagger off hand. (Especially against projectiles.)

2. Has the same number of blast finishers* (2 however they are on a shorter cd than Dagger but with less access of fire fields this is debatable)

3. Has a longer lasting fire field (but access to only 1)

4. Has more Condition Removal (personal)

5. Has access invulnerability

6. Has the same access to auras* (1 and 1 with leap with dagger in main hand)

7. Has better range

-Where its weaker-

1. Has less healing./ Group healing

2. Has more limited access to fire fields (and subsequently because of cool downs less access to auras with dagger in the main hand)

3. Has less mobility / gap closers* (you also get access to swiftness through http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Updraft)

4. Has less crowd control* (3 vs 3 actually but due to the limited radius focus skills and blowouts and knockdowns being more hard cc its goes to dagger)

5. Has weaker AoE over all.

6. Has less group condition removal.

Over all carry a weapon on ele for 6 seconds of projectile defense is an utter waist. However if your fully utilizing focus this wont matter. Over all due to cc mobility and group healing dagger is the better support weapon.

And one last note. No you don’t need to carry every weapon as it is a bit silly with builds built around specific weapons. There is nothing wrong with bring flexible but expecting every one to carry every weapon all the time is beyond foolish.

Completely forgetting about gear and traits is a bad idea. The key to beating any run is knowledge and always will be. The weapon set you use is more a matter of preference and skill. As there are many players who will be able to do things in melee or at range you personally cant who can survive situations with the tools in hand without ever switching.

Remember that.

The only thing most parties will ask you is to have at least one ranged weapon (and that’s only for peace of mind) besides that it is up to you but the utility maybe exceedingly limited.

Edit:
TL;DR

Didn’t realize it would end up some what of a wall but to sum it up this isn’t a pro tip. The main reason most people don’t switch sets is that individual skills usually don’t balance out the over all loss of utility when switching weapons. One skill will rarely make up the utility you just lost leaving your build, traits, and stats. While it may seem like a pro move in many cases it is a foolish one.

The best tip anyone can give you is learn the runs before hand and get better with the set your using now. In all likelihood like myself you haven’t actually mastered every possible way you can use it.

Look to put it plainly start your own party, advertise here , and specify what you want to do. You’ll see it all the time speed vs cash. The way I see it skipping is just easier especially in fractals mats are fine, but I rather just get to the boss. If I want cash I’ll farm AC or play the market. Its kind of hard to tell one player kill these mobs here for loots while they sit on a pile of cash they got elsewhere much easier.

I was in the Uncategorized Fractal earlier took us half an hour but the thing was when we got to the harpies for the second round of falling and rezzing. I got tired of it so I ran past all the, mobs and starting killing for the back end. It still took the party 8 mins to catch up. Honestly it makes more sense in many (not all) cases just to speed run.

Also you have got to admit that after the 50th run of the same ole same ole you get tired a little jaded and you know the fastest routes and methods. While some body will beg for Kholer you can look at the party make up and see how long its going to take. And that’s a much bigger issue.

read might learn something

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weapon_swap

Speaking honestly you cant really beat it per se. This build vs DD ele should actually end in a tie. Most of the dps from that build comes from sneak attack bleeds and depending on how much stealth he has it will be near impossible to properly CC him. Your best shot is to cc him with magnetic grasp and go wild. Dots wont do much half those builds have remove dot in stealth and heal in stealth.

I once dueled another thief using P/D and he sent me a tell after I won asking how I did it and I explained and he told me, “Wow that’s so annoying.”

The best advice I have is close the gap and unload on him. Most of those builds lack toughness but have a ton of hp so your big hits will still hit big. All thieves don’t have to commit. That’s the beauty and pain of the class like ourselves and mesmer they can just run. In a thief case you just don’t know the direction.

This again

A good shatter Mesmer can counter you. Rifle/Hammer warrior using the http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leg_Specialist trait can do it. Ranger with a decent build can do it. Necromancer with a decent mark build can do it.

Most players players play like this try to frontend burst conditions and face the (OHH no the ele wiped them) problem. Best way to do it put enough up to get him to waist his cantrips and water then put up your burst. There is no way to counter this except running.

The other thing is countering the damage train. Ele has a hugely telegraphed chain and is rather easy to counter.

In WvW there is no counter us, thieves, and mesmers can get out of almost all hairy situations. That is just the nature of the game. Some warriors can do this but they are rare.

I am actually pretty sure this isn’t about us. Mostly because we have to be in melee to aoe dps at all most of the time and staff doesn’t hit all that hard given how open you are during most of your long cast skills. Actually I am pretty sure this is about necro mark.

This is what gets to me. I cant beat a D/D ele on ranger or warrior. Its not that tricky. There are 0 surprises. The only classes that I could even fathom now might be a tad challenging based on class alone are Mesmer and thief and that’s just due to stealth alone. D/D ele is predictable and easy to counter. I was fighting a thief and she stood up on a ridge and ranged me I didn’t die but she said this “Ohh I think i discovered DD eles range problem.” I am sorry but most players are kind of idiots and don’t realize its stupid easy to range a D/D ele. The don’t realize immobilize is the kiss of death. They just don’t get it.

lmao YESSS! Now understand why!

Just wondering if anybody knew of a good build that focus soldiers probably low on precision but does steady dps with good survival. Any weapon set is fine just looking for something that works hoping to pick up my thief again.

Any help is appreciated thanks in advance.

Seems to be fixed now since I am getting the regular up times.

What really gets to me is the lack of communication. No matter what way I look at it we are in a relationship with the devs. The key to any type of relationship is communication. I remember after evasive arcana was nerfed for eles all the community wanted was some communication. Karl McLain stops by says 3 things and the fire is snuffed out. Three sentences and all the anger is over.

Every event so far has been like this and honestly just a little bit of communication would go a long way. On that note I would love to see the patch notes dropped a little early just for quality of life.

That was great.

miklo.3610:

I hope we wont get nerfed to hell tomorrow lol.

We probably wont and if we do it will likely only apply to spvp.

AlexRD.7914:

Am i the only one that thinks its terribly OP for elementalists to get this? They are already the fastest class by far, how will 25% speed affect this?

Um I’ll answer this. It wont affect a thing. Perma swiftness is not necessarily easy to get (the skills you burn to get it aren’t meant for that) but it is doable. Since swiftness stacks with just about nothing it wont do a thing.

Something players have to learn is that swiftness is not the greatest thing for kiting 33% seems like a lot but gap closers are the main kite tool. All GS classes get them (this one included) save mesmer.

BTW like warhorn, dagger in the off hand is the movement for ele. Staff and focus don’t get access to this without out heavy investment in boon duration.

Just saying options are pretty limited and the cds are tab bit high.

Shukran.4851:

gw1 pvp >>>> gw2 pvp.

QFT +10 don’t think its needs to be broken down farther than this.

Frizz.6704:

GW2 lacks true melee and ranged classes because every class has ranged and melee attacks. It’s a great concept, but for someone who enjoys playing ranged classes and kiting people, it is just not possible.

Ranger longbow/short bow or Axe substitute
Thief shortbow/ p/p or p/d
Warrior Longbow/Rifle
Mesmer Staff/ Great Sword/Scepter
Engineer Rifle/Pistol/Elixir Gun / Grenade Kit (longest range in the game when traited can kite other ranged with this)
Elementalist Staff/ Scepter
Necromancer Staff/Scepter/Axe
Guardian Scepter

your complaint is invalid as even in other more traditional mmos sometimes a ranger has to deal with a mage. It just so happens here anyone can be ranged on any class.

PowerBottom.5796:

FotM’s will not ruin the game and will not necessarily force constant balancing – it’s a natural part of the metagame and will keep things interesting.

Even if you have a perfectly balanced game, certain tendencies in builds will be established, just because ppl tend to copy builds of pros. Therefore, a metagame is being created and stabilized. Until ppl try to counter the metagame or use different builds simply because they are creative and to try out sth. new. Ppl will copy it and the metagame will shift again. After a while (if there weren’t no balance-changes), ppl might return to the old builds, because the current metagame might favour the old builds and without major balance-changes, they will still be viable.

This is the cyclical nature of a Metagame and we see it in tons of very successful e-Sport Titles like SC2, SC:BW etc.

This will also create an interesting dynamic between playstyles on different servers, where maybe another meta was established (because of timezones and the current popularity of streams (not neccesarily in GW2, but gaming in general), US-players could develop a very different Meta of Player on EUServers).

IMHO, it was an incredibly good choice to not hop on the WoW-bandwagon and stay true to the GW1-PvP-Philosophy, where you could play every class in PvP without having to go through gruesome PvE first.

You cannot make a serious e-Sport-Title that requires you to farm gear first. It didn’t even work all to well with WoW and that thing had like a bazillion players and every sponsor basically threw money at ppl to make WoW an e-Sport, just because of the player-base.

*Edit@ People saying that theres no real reward in sticking to a class: Well, theres no real reward for sticking with Zerg in SC2, or sticking with a certain position in HoN, Dota2 or LoL, nor sticking with a Char in a Fighting-Game…. other than, well; getting better at playing it. I see that GW2 pvp might feel strange for ppl used to other MMO’s, but that’s how competetive Games should work: You should be able to jump in and try every build or strategy you like, the only restriction being your skill.

While your point is well thought out you miss a few things I said. The first is the fact that builds are tailored around the purpose of our spvp ie holding a point, and roaming to take a point. Because of that “interesting” builds are some what useless. While in PvE you maybe able to use something out of left field, in spvp there is a goal very specific goal. While its true there are many builds in competitive matches outside hot join its still more bunker/burst roam. To put it very bluntly you can bring your interesting build to the table and proceed to get your behind handed to you.

The other thing you say about no balance changes (see solution #2 in my OP) puts pressure on the community to change and not be tempted to ride the wave to victory. With an mmo this big the majority will ride the wave.

The second is more of the nature of the beast we call communication. Because we communicate so well builds get passed around at a very fast speed. There is no real local flavor meta is meta for the entire game unless a guild decides to make there knowledge tacit but even then analysis can be done and the build figured out easily.

The Meta game in gw1 revolved around strong solo builds and strong group builds but there are hundreds of them. The difference between this game and gw1 is options quite frankly. While you had less skills on the bar in gw1 execution played a more vital role, and many builds were hard counter able like 55 monk meets dervish or boon ripper mes. However, in this game hard counters are hard to come by. What we see here is a trend of position holder position taker and that’s about it. Lets forget about the fact of being able to mix and match classes, the 1319 different skills.

TBH I feel it insults the legacy of gw1 once you compare the meta-game here to what it is there http://www.gwpvx.com/PvX_wiki

Going to attempt to keep this short

The Problems

1. There are no real barriers to entry in PvP ie you don’t have to level, so any build that gain favorability may be played immediately.

2. Build diversity is actually rather limited due to game type (point hold) many builds that may be competitive in other areas are not seen in Spvp

3. Because the trend is that players like to win, they seem to have no issue switching professions.

4. This creates an environment where certain builds may become popular over night and all forms of arena become flooded with them.

5. This may lead to a trend of nerfing those builds and players will then migrate to the next best possible option. (we already see this)

6. We have seen this happen consistently thus far and will likely see it happen in the future.

The Solutions

1. Keep nerfing builds as they gain traction. The problem with this strategy is that it doesn’t not deal with the core problem at all. It doesn’t not stop the trend and may force to community into a policy of not sharing builds for fear of being nerfed.

2. Do nothing. Arguably you could leave the situation alone and leave it to the community to find counters to certain builds. The problem is this puts pressure on us to not only counter the builds but to not join the fold.

3. Make more builds viable. Which sounds like the simplest solution as more options will allow more counter and more strategy. The problem here is due to the delicate nature of Spvp a small buff to something obscure could lead the the problem we already face.

4. More game types. However Anet has said they are shooting for “e-sport” and don’t want multiple game types just maps. Even with more game types the scenario could continue to play out ie run one build here and another there both very popular.

I have no 100% full proof solution.

Edit

FOTM = flavor of the month (moment) etc couldn’t put it in the title due to character limitations.

PVT and clerics condition damage is meh on DD.

Lets face it if you know a build you should know if you can counter it or not. For instance i cant for the life of me counter chatter mesmer on my ele because I am not tanky enough. However on my beast master ranger its rather simple. I can accept there are things I cant counter and builds that will rip me apart, but what most players don’t realize is that they consider every loss no matter the circumstance as something they can blame the other guy being OP for. The problem with experienced players is that they see every win as their skill alone.

I will tell you right now some builds are flat out OP but there are very few. Even backstab thief full burst isn’t actually OP. DD ele is countered by range (no one realizes this). Hundred blades does not cc on its own if the bull misses so does the skill. Necro marks can be countered by pets. Etc etc it just goes on.

Casual players deserve one thing ranked ques. Honestly we all do.

PowerBottom.5796:

TheGuy.3568:

I think you missed something you cant be dps and bunker at the same time with ele D/D it doesn’t work that way.

If you mean the same thing as I (Amu-Switching), you’re partially right. If you think about tanking with Valk-Amu, I don’t see a Problem on most Ele-builds, because most of them require you to give up lots of DPS if you go a tanky route. You then just walk on a continuum between DMG and Sustain and most ele-builds don’t burst out of it by being too tanky and dealing a lot of DPS at the same time.

The biggest, or IMHO only Problem, are D/D-Specs with their perma-Fury. You Can go full defense on Runes and have rather defensive traits, which makes it possible to go from DPS, to pretty much Full-tank just by switching out your Amu. This is only a real Problem on Legacy thought, because on small points, the Ele is a pretty bad pointholder, because of his lack of knockbacks and only 10 seconds stability every 70 or so seconds (which would be on armor of earth, which not many DPS-specced eles use anyways).

What I meant is burst stats and D/D do not equal survivability the only classes that can do that are thief (to a lesser extent) and mesmer (to a major extent). Attunement swapping in DD will not shift you from tank to dps all by itself and auto attack is laughable. The truth is you have a couple of dps combos and anybody who can read them knows how to dodge or counter them and that’s about it.

As far as perma fury goes why not? I can achieve it on Warrior and other classes without much stress.

Look what most players don’t get or tend to forget is that DD has been around this entire kittening time and already got nerfed along with other ele specs. You cant nerf a class because people start playing it due to nerfs in the first place. Anet is about to enter a vicious cycle and should realize from now that there is no stopping a fotm spike. Players like to win and few give a damn about class. They were the ones that made spvp full access any class no leveling required. Its the flaw in the system. And honestly its whats killing pvp. So they may nerf ele again and i realized who gives a kitten. Eventually the pack will more on to the next flavor.

NaturalPortman.9562:

PowerBottom.5796:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Devs should definately NOT listen to the ele mainers trying to save their class from another nerf because ele’s definately need one. Ever faced a 3+ ele team? The fact that people are opting for team comps like that alone show how broken ele’s are, they are TOO versatile.

Yes, they are versatile and they are fast, but:

- DMG is nowhere near that of Mesmers/Thiefs.
- The Combos have high recast.
- If you want to use sustain, you have to actually sacrifice DMG, unlike the Thief or Mesmer, which can be extremely hard to kill although they run Zerker-Amu.
- They have weak-point that can be exploited, like with strong Boon-remove – whats the counter to Stealth?…
- Their Heal (Ether Renewal), which is undoubtedly incredibly strong, is very easy to interrupt.
- They don’t have Speedstomps/Speedrezzes or AoE-Stealth for rezzing/Stomping, Mesmer and Thief both have that if they want to run it and those are Skills that actually win you teamfights.
- They don’t have a Portal or 25% Movement-Speed+tons of Shadowsteps, so they aren’t even as good in moving around the Map as Thiefs/Mesmers.

Besides that: I have never ever seen a Team running 3 Eles…. 1 Ele is pretty common, 2 is rare, 3 is sth. I’ve never seen. But I can totally see that working, not because Eles are imba, but because Eles in groups work well together, because of the Heals, combo-fields, chain-stunning and Boons they apply to each other.

That being said: What specs where those eles running that were so hard to beat and are for you proof enough that ele is the new “imba-class”.

ANet shouldn’t listen to newbs that have no clue how the different classes work and cry out for nerfs if a good player beats them in Hotjoin…. -.-°

Err. Comparing ele damage to thief/ mesmer damage is stupid. Ele does constant heavy aoe damage to everyone while being able to tank like a mother, while giving himself and the whole team boons up the kitten while being virtually unstompable with a team that knows how to play the “downed game”, has easily the top mobility in the game.

Should I go on..?

And don’t even bring in stealth to this argument, conquest mode alone counters stealth, you win the point the second the thief stealths.

I think you missed something you cant be dps and bunker at the same time with ele D/D it doesn’t work that way. The other thing is like I pointed out before we saw nerfs the last 2 patches. Another point churning earth http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Churning_Earth is one of the easiest skills to avoid due to its exceedingly long cast.

Mesmer shatter and theif backstab will both beat ele in single target dps due to our biggest hitting skills having long cool downs. Sadly to say beating a D/D ele is more about being a good player than anything else as there are counters in each class.

Also straight line mobility we are about equal with a warrior gs who knows what he doing. Running in circles mesmers and thiefs both have more due to stealth and teleports.

If you need to know how to beat a D/D ele its rather simple with range and immobility but you know players are too lazy to learn anything if its not pew pew I win the scream nerfs lol without thinking about it.

Edit:

BTW down 2 counts as a rez so when you down again it counts as a second down . You cant use your heal skill after its over and you have the penalty for a stage 2 down (less hp etc). this skill in spvp is no more than an escape tool for a very short period of time you cant stop the down after that.

Dolan.3071:

Chipster.6713:

Yareon.2835:

I hope that “mainly using fire attunement” does not mean “I’ll stick with fire 90% of the time” because you’re locking out 60% of your class skills this way

It IS possible to stick with fire most of the time. Arcane is the only trait line that focuses on Attunement swapping, so why not let the man go full fire? I run with lightning only when I sPvP, occasionally switching to water for some added healing. There are traits directly tailored to spending most time in 1 atunnement like 20% reduced cooldowns, 10% damage in fire/water etc.. That combined with a good utility skill set is extremely powerful and makes sticking to 1 Attunement very much possible.

I toyed around with the numbers in terms of damage and going full into lightning rather than switching around did a lot more for me. Sure attunement swapping is fun and effective, but the game is still young and people need to toy around with a lot more specs. What the point in swapping into earth with a precision spec? You will deal severely less damage. Sure you got a knockdown, but then you’re stuck waiting for your main attunement to come back up.

In dungeons I’ve skipped the “swap constantly” thing and tried a water with all healing spec. It was not only easier but also much more effective. Regen on signet activation plus the constant passive regen and debuffing with vulnerability did much more for the group rather than swapping around like a monkey, while being moderate at everything.

This. I tried swapping frequently but found that the fire base attack was just too good to give up, I do occasionally change to water if myself/the melee members are starting to get low on health (surprisingly good heal without putting anything into healing power.)

Put bluntly this is possible with staff but like many will tell you the problem is you remove a lot of your effectiveness. When you swap you can pull off combos and cover more roles than when you stick to one attunement. Most of your cds are based around the idea your not going to just sit in one attunement. Now let me make it clear that it is completely possible to sit in one attunement and make it through content but compared to the ele who’s swapping you will be less effective.

This is more of a design flaw than anything and why so many still put points in arcane. No matter what weapon set you use the ele who swaps is likely going to do a better job than the one who sits in one attunement.

We literally got nerfed in the Nov 15 patch both to boons and healing (through EA also) (read https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-November-15-2012/first#post808152 ) than again to auras wtf else is left. I hate saying this but if you can’t beat DD ele learn to play there are no stealth, no tricks, and we kittening outline it for you https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/How-do-you-counter-D-D-elementalist/page/2#post917701

Fact is if any class becomes fotm in spvp automatically its in need of nerf. Funny how we already got the nerf before it became popular.

Cymric.7368:

Don’t blurred frenzy’s CD starts only when the channel ends? Untraited blurred frenzy, 2s channel, 10s CD, total 12s. With trait, 2s channel, 8s CD, total 10s. Best you can get is 20% up time on the invul. I remember I was disappointed when I discover this.

Melee with mesmers is relies on the invul from blurred frenzy. D/D eles have alot of healing, cleanse and boons. Not sure abt dagger necro since I only use staff, but necros have huge health pool, and death shroud for extra hp. Each cloth class need to have some way to compensate for their lower defense when going melee against medium and heavy armor class. I don’t see this as over powered.

That’s actually wrong. You should realize what lets any class melee is stats and that about it. Unless you add sustainability to your stats then there is no way in hell to keep yourself up. Evades and Invulnerable states just happen to be unrelated to stats ie its a freebee.

And lets be honest on the left hand side of the bar between your scholar counter parts who has an invulnerable on a 10 second cd?

This is a hard concept that many don’t get but no matter your gear type if you spec glass you’ll be squishy if you spec bunker you’ll be relatively hearty.

Thirsty.2875:

TheGuy.3568:

Kylex.5962:

Rez signet nerf
Healing nerf IF they nerf damage from mesmers-thiefs (nerf both at same time or leave both)

Which signet is that because I keep hearing about it being able to rez

if you mean this http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Restoration then I kind of lol since I have dueled other ele using other heals and its all the same really.

I think he is talking about the necro rez signet

kk got it but I have never seen it used.

Kylex.5962:

Rez signet nerf
Healing nerf IF they nerf damage from mesmers-thiefs (nerf both at same time or leave both)

Which signet is that because I keep hearing about it being able to rez

if you mean this http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Restoration then I kind of lol since I have dueled other ele using other heals and its all the same really.

As far as healing nerf goes like I said previously I don’t see them touching it again https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-November-15-2012/first#post808152

I dont see them touching thief dps either and the seemed just fine with what thy did in the Nov. 15 patch.

Mesmer maybe but doubt it. Since they touched confusion really they already did what you asked lol.

Relentliss.2170:

Some small nerfs and buffs to all classes. Note the word small.

I would mostly like to see a small nerf to DD ele tanks and to thief stealth.

Some buffs to Rangers seem to be forthcoming.

Looking forward to them adding spectator mode etc.

Warrior , Guardian, Mesmer, Necro all seem to need only the most minor changes.

Real bug fixes and not stealth nerfs.

I ma partial to D/D ele and I don’t see much to nerf there. Considering a lot of our healing was nerfed the last big pacth I dont think there is anything they can really touch that they haven’t already

To break it down

1. Boon duration nerf
2. Aura duration nerf
3. Healing nerf
4. EA nerf

Have actually all already happened so whats left? FOTM is ele right now due to the last batch of nerfs. They may nerf it again in spvp but honestly I really don’t see where.

Stealth nerf is unnecessary but I would like to culling fully fixed.

I have a small urge to see shatters brought in line but I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

I do hope that they buff engi (bugs, kits scaling with weapons and sigils), ranger (pet ai general survivability), and some (relatively minor) aspects of warrior.

I don’t think there will be much of nerf bat considering the last pvp patch.

Adwila.1392:

The only thing to be expected is a huge lagfest lasting from 14th to the 20th because of Wintersday PvE crap.

Oh, and of course loading screen bug once again.

Its a given isn’t it?

Edit:

Not about spvp but conditions stacking.

maddoctor.2738:

I had an epic D/D duel a few days ago. Two D/D Elementalists fighting in a duel is simply the best anyone would ever ask for in terms of a visually impressive fight! I hope they do D/D ele only tournaments in the future with full spectate mode active, it would be boring watching other profs play, but not D/D eles

I had one the other day in spvp funny thing we were actually running different builds. At one point he got his churning off off after I popped 2 dodges and burned 2 cantrips I popped mist at the last second and he was like dude nice ended in a tie but it was great.

Klassic.8057:

cool story bro plz tell it again

Whats wrong with his post? D/D ele duels tend to be epic affairs. Don’t spoil the moment.

Pamant.7953:

Kilger.5490:

I’m confused, a few weeks ago everyone thought we were underpowered… whats changed????

I’m gonna let you in on a little secred and tell you what changed: nothing.

Only change we got is having more people using D/D because of the EA-bug-then fix.
There were so many guys running God-mode staff-spam-heal-EA and scepter 25xmight stack-lets-roll-in the ring’o’fire, that you couldn’t notice D/D elementalists.

D/D eles have been like this always, but lately more people started to play & master it.

One thing has changed, that not many will notice though, they stealth-changed burning speed (3 skill fire), so it works more like updraft (5 skill air).
After you use it you are repositioned facing the closest enemy, usually the one you burn while using the skill, thus making landing fire grab (5 skill fire) less complicated; until a little while ago you had to turn with your mouse to land it in this combo.

Dude that’s a good catch I didn’t even notice that.

Calli.6309:

typingofthedead.5614:

edit: the real way to kill an ele is CC. if they cant use their heals/utilities they go down very quick

yeh. i personally feel a necromancer is the best bet to disable an elementalist. esp in a big group fight it’ll be harder to escape and if an ele is on lockdown well he does just melt. in fact i’m heading over to necro forums now and QQ hehe

Just want to say one thing vs D/D its can be a one sided fight if you know what your doing. Consistently on my alt Rifle/Hammer warrior alt its will be a tie vs bunker but a loss for the ele vs any other build. We all know the best way to beat our own class is through cc and immobilize. While conditions can do the trick you can always run. Good cc will burn all cantrips in a jiffy.

I am shocked every time churning earth hits.

Seragi.5910:

TheGuy.3568:

Syeria.4812:

TheGuy.3568:

You didn’t but i can sum it up thief is the only class that has a skill like that on the left had side on short cd (more like no cd) that’s all. Everybody else has to take a utility for it.

As was pointed out, both guardian and mesmer also have them “on the left.” Ranger (when traited, but everyone has this trait) also has quickness stomp “on the left.” Necro and Ele have a blind stomp (although it’s a single shot blind) “on the left.” It seems only engineer and warrior lack an option there (although necro and ele’s option is rather poor). Actually, can a focus wielding ele stomp through Obsidian Flesh? Probably not I’m assuming. It seems that the classes who don’t have that option are more rare than those who do.

But I assume for thief you’re referencing CnD, using that would require the thief to still have 6 initiative (if they used HS spam, that’s just not going to happen). Using Steal burns a skill with 45 second CD and depending on the fight length, could still be on CD from being used as a fight opener.

I am disregarding the first part of the first paragraph as you cleverly forgot I said short cd (hint: all those skills have long cds). You also toss in traits that are completely meant for defense in nature and application that can’t be used for stomp consistently. Engis are special case see smoke vent (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Vent)

Sigh… initiative regens naturally at 1 point per 1.33 second the max cd on a skill like CnD is 8 seconds (that’s completely untraited). That’s a very short cd.

considering most glass cannon thieves die in 2 shots 8s is a lifetime

All glass cannons die quickly how is that a justification? Your statement makes no sense. Are you trying to say thief glass cannon should get some type of exception for just being thieves. That was a joke response right lol I get trolled.

Trigr.6481:

Did they ever fix the rendering glitch yet?

From what I heard there are still issues.

Esrever.8613:

I hope they remover cloaking or 50% of thief dps or 30% of thief’s speed.

I did ask you be realistic.