Guild Wars 2

Vanillea is right. Honestly If I were you would just craft the rest. Or hit 50 craft to 70 head to Orr and farm the rest. The gear you have now is meaningless don’t worry about the stats all that much because you’ll be growing out of it fast. Its between 55 and 60 endgame stats (for the most part) as far as variation goes are fully present.

These should be useful to you http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_Stat_Combinations
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Strong#Dual_attribute

(Hint: Strong and Berserker)

Just a note. The only way I see you sitting on 40g in 3 days at your level is

A). your got a very rare dye and sold it ala Abyss.

B). you bought gems and sold them.

Long story and lots of math short. Unless you have crit damage multiplier precision falls behind power and either way you’ll need power to justify precision.

Also note precision is a stat that pays few dividends on its own (especially with out class). So if you really want to go for a precision build for us the end of that road needs crit damage to balance out the cost.

As far as dungeons go you cant dps if your always down. PVT in most cases is the smart choice but if your’e really good go full dps and fly through runs. GC ele in PvP = dead ele 9 times out of 10.

Last note certain builds ie Altruistic healing etc can rely on precision with out multipliers. Proc builds do that just fine.

Red Falcon.8257:

As a Thief I say we are definitely OP in WvW, but that is because our nerfs dont apply there.
In sPvP where all nerfs apply we are very balanced.

Just apply PvP nerfs to WvW anet, quit pretending that WvW is PvE.

If they did that then it would have to be across the board they would also have to remove or reduce the difficulty of all PvE elements of WvW. So what you would be looking it as nerfs to every class and adjustment to all mobs. I don’t think that’s going to happen but who knows.

Look wvw is inherently unbalanced. You can be over run by one side that has superior forces. So builds mean diddly squat at the end of the day. If you want a fair fight that’s what Spvp is for. I mean its very stupid to assume the place for gankers would be fair.

Caffynated.5713:

Vanthian.9267:

plasmacutter.2709:

Let me know when these “other” bunkers have a base HP of 10k and cloth armor.

And btw, you’re a flat-out liar. Guardian bunkers depend as much on boon duration as the eles, and they get swiftness too.

There’s a reason we have all this other stuff. A good solid burst will swat us like flies!

Mean while, in WvW a d/d ele tanks 15 people while killing 3 and gets away!. No need for nerfs. The ele is obviously working as intended. Moving on.

Maybe 15 level 2s who randomly stop to harvest, collect skill points, never dodge and fall off of cliffs when they activate movement skills.

I routinely see these “unkillable” eles get burned down in seconds when more than one 80 gets on them.

If an ele lasts for more than 10 seconds against you and 2 other people without either dying or running for his life, you’re horrible and need to get better.

The thing is in WvW nothing is fair. that being said DD is beatable 1 v 1 but there isn’t much to keep us in range.

Just today I had this ele 80 DD chase my thief long story short he got stomped I left with near full health. There is no real trick if you know the class you know the weaknesses.

No one mentions S/D as it is the red headed step child in the corner but in WvW its can be down right troll worthy. Just about any build will work as long as you have the gear for it and know how it works. A little advice in the general sense. If it doesn’t work the way you want at first don’t give up. Many thief builds despite the stigma that they are easy actually rely on nuance. Many builds require time to get used to.

As far as going after your legendary (unless you feel like buying one) there are numerous guides and no matter the class the path is relatively the same. Your build is not going to matter as much as having MF gear, time, and patience.

We have been eating nerfs in Spvp for a while now. Honestly that’s OK because so has just about everyone else save the warriors who seem to be untouchable. The issue is WvW. People want nerfs there but its an inherently unbalanced environment with PvE aspects. Nerfs to us alone there would make little to no sense. the only real option is to bring WvW into PvP and remove all PvE aspects. Fact is that it’s not going to happens. So likely well see nerfs in PvE to justify WvW and that would be BS. If you look at the community its pretty obvious that the whines are coming from WvW.

The other issue is a warped perspective of the player base. We are literally the jack of all trades class so when people say well ele can do it all its designed to do just that. Our base stats revolve around the fact we have no active stealth defense Like mesmer and thief. We simply don’t have access to the armor values of warriors and guardians. We don’t have access to the same DPS at range as a ranger does on a single target. And engis (who are in a very bad place right now not much unlike rangers) we have less variety and less aoe. Compared to necros we have less access to conditions (in terms of variety). What we do have is marginally better mobility that 4 out of the 8 classes (warriors rangers and thieves can out run us). As far as sustained DPS goes we are near the bottom of the bin and in terms of burst the same. Our burst is hard to execute compared tot thief ranger warrior mesmer or guardian for that matter and is easy very easy to counter.

Does all this means ele really needs a buff. Nope not at all. Way is means is things simply aren’t fair across the board. Warrior get way too much health even full zerkers have more HP than our full bunkers. Almost all classes get access to heavy hitting dps skills on short cool down we have NONE. Al other classes have access to ranged weapon sets while in combat. We are either range r melee that’s about it (Conjures don’t count due to long cd and charges if it was like a engi tool it would be fair game for discussion but they’re not not).

We are not OP and every other class is not UP the fact is when given the task of running in a straight line in a world with nearly no walls we can run fast. As far as Spvp goes no bunker can stand 1 vs 2 good players its not going to happen a good bunker is a stall for time that’s about it. If you cant beat any bunker 1 v 2 that’s on you.

None the less nerfs are incoming. If they nerf ele into the ground they best be ready for the Wave of QQ headed at them. At the very least invest in another class you like that not in the cross hairs. Well even engi and ranger got nerfed so who the hell knows what A net is thinking.

Alilinke.7690:

TheGuy.3568:

Alilinke.7690:

ATMAvatar.5749:

Also keep in mind that none of the balance team plays an ele.

Link? Or is this sarcasm. I find that hard to believe tbh.

Who knows if that is true now but yes months ago the listed the classes they played ele wasn’t one of them. Go back to the EA nerf for more info.

I don’t know much about the balance team, but one would assume they play all classes equally. >.>

Not really. The balance team is still made up of people who have their favorite classes too. Its also not something we made up they disclosed that information freely. Its not like their going to play each class 2 hours a day until they get it. Or each and every build for that matter. Simply put its unrealistic. They likely look at skills and traits see how they work cross build and see if they can implement “balance”. But who knows maybe they toss darts.

Remember what happens when you assume anything.

Arheundel.6451:

The d/d ele will soon be nerfed to the ground as the other weapon sets before it, I was there when staff was actually usable in sPvP and s/d burst was effective with arcane skills both on reasonable CD…and now…

I’ll go guardian GS, press F1-5-3 and watch people as they die all around me
..or I go mesmer s/p and press 4-5-3-f1 and instagib people

Basically I see it something like this. If the nerf is insane I might drop the class and jump to another 80 toon I have. Nerfing the versatile class for being versatile isn’t anything new. The big problem is most classes are dumbed down to the point its too boring to play. Likely thief, warrior, and mesmer wont even be touched ( I don’t think they need to be but fair is fair). In the long run we may end up on the class that does twice the work for half the results. I get it but why even argue anymore. I have spent that last few weeks in TSW and will return after the patch hands us some more nerfs. GL all.

Alilinke.7690:

ATMAvatar.5749:

Also keep in mind that none of the balance team plays an ele.

Link? Or is this sarcasm. I find that hard to believe tbh.

Who knows if that is true now but yes months ago the listed the classes they played ele wasn’t one of them. Go back to the EA nerf for more info.

Just wondering want to make an alt guardian and would like to know if this is possible. It doesn’t have to be perfectly permanent but like maybe less than 8 seconds down time would suffice. I will be doing research and see if I can figure it out but so far no luck.

DPS-

Ele dps combo is fairly predcitable. Most players will use these skills in this order usually http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ride_the_Lightning to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Updraft attune fire http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Speed to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_Grab to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ring_of_Fire attune earth http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnetic_Grasp to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthquake to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Churning_Earth

There are some variations but this is basically it.

Countering is is not complex at all. You can dodge the first 2 skills because RTL is not instant. Dodging RTL in most cases will put you out of position of updraft if you roll backward.

Burning Speed has a 600 range and 240 aoe taking a few steps backward can help you avoid this if its right after the dodge. If it does hit you prepare yourself. It auto faces and set ups for fire grab. However here’s the thing about fire grab. The cone is garbage and if you move some its likely to miss.

Then you have ring of fire to magnetic grasp (produces http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_Shield fyi). A litte hint Magnetic Grasp is a pretty slow projectile that doesn’t follow so in many cases even without dodging you can side step it.

Where most players get caught is the earth quake churning earth combo. Honestly dont waist the dodge on earthquake if you can manage to dodge it. Don’t stun break. Most of the time its ok to eat the dps from it. Churning earth on the other hand hits hard. Most players try to walk out of the churning earth circle. Most ele carry http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Flash just of the reason. Not only can you not see the circle anymore it can be cast just as earth ends not interrupting the cast..

There are 2 ways to deal with this. first is interrupt the cast. The window is huge at 3 seconds. So you can use one of many interrupts and cancel it. However the best way to counter it is to simply count to 2 and a half and dodge. If you do this while walking out of the circle you’ll likely get the ele to burn a cantrip at the same time. Learn the time it takes to cast and you probably wont ever get hit buy this skill while you have endurance again.

Some more dps minded ele will use skills like http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Wave which can do good dps. However its predictable since most players will look to use such blast finishers in fire fields ie ring of fire burning speed.

Range/Kiting-

Ok so lets say you don’t care if the ele runs away or you have a ranged immobilize with a fast projectile speed or one that’s instant. Ele can be kited. the max range on DD ele weapon set for sustained dps is http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vapor_Blade at 600. If your’e outside of that you could simply kite the ele. While its true ele has many gap closers all of them are counter able. Most players will not exploit this fact. I personally find rifles to be the best weapon to do this on whether warrior or engineer. No matter the range weapon its possible to kite an ele by dodging gap closers and crippling often.

(Note I have and usually beat ele I do this to on warrior with the proper traits).

Shocking Aura-

Easiest way to counter this nifty skill is to switch to range weapon and move out of melee. Aura only works in melee so its easy to counter.

Mist form (downed skill 2)

Simply immobilize once they go into mist form.

Last Notes-

I am not perfect so I may have missed things or there may be disagreement. TBH from the first time i played DD I have been wondering how to counter it. Many of these strategies have worked for me. I find warrior (Rifle/Hammer) to be the best overall when traited but any class can work of course. I personally feel that the best way to counter a DD ele is to know the class inside out. Much like countering a mesmer its about know where the limitations are.

Please add advice. I don’t want this to break out into argument. I think its better to educate than to argue. "

Id like start a how to defeat thread. I have in the past requested help in defeating other popular builds. I usually received help but QQ gets to be annoying an many would rather see nerfs than use the capabilities already in the game to win. I would like to change that bad habit by sharing inf on how to beat other classes. I will start with how I beat my own class DD ele Arcane. Please share advice for beating other builds considered considerably strong.

“I have noticed recently many complaints about DD ele and its survivability. I have also noticed many over inflated ego amongst this community most thinking they are “god mode”. Perhaps I have played long enough to see the flaws or have played enough good players to see the shortcomings. Either way we aren’t unbeatable and there is more whining than learning going on here. Lets change that.

Mobility-

Ele running DD have very strong mobility we all know that. This is usually the chief concern of those trying to “beat” a DD ele. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ride_the_Lightning is the centerpiece of DD mobility. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Speed to a lesser degree also attributes to this plus access to nearly unlimited swiftness on many builds makes DD a hard one to catch.

However this class is far from unbeatable in this area. The absolute best way to deal with ele is to use http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Immobilize during RTL. The reason for this is there is no real counter. RTL once interrupted is over. Even if the immobile is cleansed the skill will end. From there you can DPS cc Etc.

Healing-

Eles in general scale well with healing I won’t go into all the math but yes eles can heal a great amount. The best counter to healing is dps plain and simple. Most of the time pressure will counter healing but the variety of heals ele have most players feel like they cant. Truth is if your speced for some type of survivability build yourself then your not going all that much dps likely. It will become a war of attrition. Until one of you slips up or gives up there wont be an end.

If you do have the dps for it the best times to burn down an ele are right after water attunement and after using a heal skill (if the ele is using http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_restoration its still right after water). Why then? Because the ele likely just burned their healing skills and burned their cleanses. Most ele try to create some level of separation after this if they are being pressured. Don’t let it happen. Stick to them and continue your dps. Expect the RTL counter it and continue dps. Letting up is the mistake so don’t make it. This is the best time to apply conditions cc etc etc. The safety net is gone and for most builds this is the place where cantrips get used. The goal is to force this to happen.

By supplying steady burst at the right times you can burn down the DD ele or at least force the use of survival tools.

One note: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ether_Renewal is the strongest (in terms of raw healing and condition removal) skill we ele have. However its pretty easy to interrupt. The animation is like a long bent over crouch. Its relatively easy to spot.

Cantrips-

for those who don’t know here’s the link (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cantrip). Now for many this is the bread and butter of ele survival. There isn’t much you can do to counter cantrips and honestly you goal should be to get the ele to use them. Why? So they have one less tool on the table. Cantrips by nature have long cool downs. The decision to use one indicates that the ele is being pressured into it.

One note to remember cantrips break stun but they don’t break immobilize (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Fire being the exception but if there are many dots on the target ele there is no guarantee it will be the one removed).

Toversletje.9345:

tips for defeating DD ele?

wich side are you on? O.O

No ones. Most players cant see the forest for the trees. First time I played DD I wondered how to counter it. First time I got hard countered by an engineer I thought it was OP but instead of whining I rolled one and realized it isn’t.

The other issue is players hate to see the parity. On paper and in practice vs someone ranged focus is a much better option than dagger. However, not all that many players use focus. Same with sword and greatsword for ranger. All the abilities to shut down a build are in the game but no one uses them.

Sigh the balancing we have seen in WvW has been based around the team and not individual builds. So far portal and healing to the group are all that have been hit. In competitive pvp eles have been hit with 50% reductions on some of our strongest healing skills much like mesmers with confusion.

The other glaring issue is the overall lack of player knowledge. If ranger goes pure melee sword/greatsword it has more mobility than we do. Warrior just going GS is enough but if the go pure melee then yes still more mobility than us. Guardians going sword/gs would be less mobile in each set but combined would equal us.

The fact is our purely melee set is balanced against other purely melee sets. the sad part if if you nerf it would be a result of whining not balance.

Please for your own good look at the movement skill list for Sword and Greatsword

Guardian
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flashing_Blade
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leap_of_Faith

Warrior
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Savage_Leap
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirlwind_Attack
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rush

Ranger
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swoop
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hornet_Sting
to (flip the camera 180 degrees to get full movement)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Monarch%27s_Leap

Kibbles.9813:

It’s a bit odd that you’d suggest this as a viable way to deal with D/D when in fact you need 2-3 people coordinating their Immobilize or Interrupts to even begin dealing with a single Elementalist

Incorrect both Rifle warrior and engineer can cc and immobilize. Rifle warrior with hammer and the http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leg_Specialist trait do it easily. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Net_Turret for engineer. BTW access to immobilize is rather easy for most classes save necromancer.http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Immobilized

Also note both those classes have quite a bit of cc so doe every other.

Another note look at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Strike

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hammer is also one of the best weapons to cc with.

Zonzai.2341:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Zonzai.2341:

Good advice. I like posts like this that help people learn the game better. A lot of people come from other MMO’s and aren’t used to how important timing is in GW2. So I give you a +1.

-EDIT- I should add, DD eles will be getting a nerf soon so everybody whining should just chill. I know ANet and if any one build becomes too popular or successful, they will “equalize” it. LOL

They already said DD eles will get a damage buff so no they will not get nerfed.

Elementalists will get a general damage buff you mean? That’s what I thought they said. The problem with the DD ele isn’t the damage output. It doesn’t do all that much damage. The mobility will end up being reduced though. The same thing happened with the ele in GW1. And the thief for that matter. It’s like deja vu.

Honestly that would make no sense. If you look at warrior, guardian, and ranger gs and sword builds they have just as much mobility or more. Seriously before you respond look at the skills and the cool downs literally more mobile than DD.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sword
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Greatsword

While I don’t understand the anger the advice I gave will usually work. The main issue is this most players like to dps but don’t really time snares or anything around their opponent and more around their rotation.

Ele can not indefinitely heal. A burst dps will burn an ele down. Like I said if your dps is not burning down the ele your not truly speced for dps. I say that with no sarcasm because its the simple truth.

We have tried numerous times in the past to explain the gaps your response is pretty typical of those we explained it to. No one can force you to learn. No one can force you to change the way you play. Accept the limitations of your build. If you can not change it to one that can beat ele (there are numerous) and many were mentioned in this thread. Its true many of these builds are not popular the fact is they work and not only for this task.

Thanos.2970:

The simple fact the eles feel the need to offer help that is obviously not needed vs other classes proves that something ist wrong. I saw the same thing in the mesmer and thief forums before both classes were heavily nerfed.

How about this:
If it is so easy to beat a DD, you could simply offer to duel a DD ele with an other class and show us how easy it is. Tips like: Immobilize the ride the lightning and interrupt the heal are nice in theory but there are just to many setups that do not have those abilites. In WvW a good DD ele is the most overpowered class I can imagine: Decent damage, good condition removal, very good mitigation, probably the best heals out of any class and the option to always run if things go bad. One of my friends plays a DD ele and frequently attacks groups of 2 and 3 players and either wins, or if they are good at least escapes without a problem. He says that he does not remember the last time he lost a 1vs1.

Could you at least name a spec and utility setup for every class that has at least a chance to kill a good DD ele (this should include tools to prevent thre ele from running if things go bad)? My main is a necro and in my usual condition setup with staff/scepter-dagger there is no way in hell I can beat a decent ele because they have just to much condtion removal. I usually just do not even try to stay and fight any more and just try to escape to the next friendly keep, because even if he is bad and I actually manage to get him in trouble he will just run and there is nothing I can do about it.

going to attempt to answer you. First off you didn’t red my post. I put links there so you could see the skills available to your classes.

Now a few facts. Most eles wont tell you this because they rarely face it but true condition spam is nearly un wipable. It has noting to do with cleanses but application. On this front Necromancer draws the short end of the stick. In CC combat a necro playing condition properly can dot up better than any other class. The variety of the conditions alone make it nearly impossible to wipe them all. Here in lies the rub. Necro more than any other class is limited in immobilize options. You have your knockdown catch up in http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Grasp and your immobilize http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_Pact anything else is smart placement of http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Mark but since its visible not much can be done.

To break a very harsh truth to you not only ele but just about any class can run from necromancer. Where necro shines is the fact that 1v1 in the right hands most classes cannot beat the condition build.

And as far as condition removal goes 1 ele by himself vs another class max is 3 every 9-10 seconds and 3 for emergencies. The problem with necro and its condition builds is application. P/D and D/D blossom thief does it so fast so often usually wipes wont do a thing. Its the same with confusion Mesmer. The condition comes in so often you cant wipe it fast enough. Necro applies conditions slowly (by comparison) but more of them.

On your “How about this:
If it is so easy to beat a DD, you could simply offer to duel a DD ele with an other class and show us how easy it is.”

I never said it was easy. Individual counters are but the whole thing is simply about knowledge and skill. As far as a build that carries that type of cc. S/D thief has more on demand immobilize than any other class and its instant. For warrior http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leg_Specialist is pretty much the only trait you need.
Plus both thief and warrior can keep up with ele.
Engineer http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rifle + http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Net_Turret. Mesmer timing the http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swap a little diffidently can shut down rtl plus the numerous stuns. Guardian go scepter + shield / Great sword http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chains_of_Light added in with a few cc skills can shut down the mobility of ele. Ranger have it tricky like necromancer. We rely on pets to pull off the immobilize however http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Concussion_Shot is your best shot.

Now let me point out (like I do above) ele DD is a melee set. For all the pros you point out the con is it really is melee. the reason I mention this is that every weapon set has it drawbacks. Proclaiming you don’t have immobilize is the same as saying I want it all in one set. That’s not possible. You have the capability to bring it you chose not to.

haviz.1340:

TheGuy.3568:

@Jay.3284 Killing a bunker ele 1v1 in WvW is unlikely but your not likely to get beat either. 2 v 1 should end with the bunker ele downed if either player knows what they are doing. I think we need to remember the goal of a bunker is to survive and it should be good at it.

If you know how to build good bunker (not soldier’s + cleric’s) you can have so much damage for burst spec it’s almost unbelievable for other classes.

DD ele should not have any form a burst that is not counter able. I went pretty extensively over the move set. to have relatively strong burst on bunker would require a good bit of might stacking. This is easily countered by not allowing the ele to have both the dps and the stack. Pull/kite the ele out of the fire field or simply dodge the entire combo.

@Jay.3284 Killing a bunker ele 1v1 in WvW is unlikely but your not likely to get beat either. 2 v 1 should end with the bunker ele downed if either player knows what they are doing. I think we need to remember the goal of a bunker is to survive and it should be good at it.

DPS-

Ele dps combo is fairly predcitable. Most players will use these skills in this order usually http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ride_the_Lightning to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Updraft attune fire http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Speed to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_Grab to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ring_of_Fire attune earth http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnetic_Grasp to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthquake to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Churning_Earth

There are some variations but this is basically it.

Countering is is not complex at all. You can dodge the first 2 skills because RTL is not instant. Dodging RTL in most cases will put you out of position of updraft if you roll backward.

Burning Speed has a 600 range and 240 aoe taking a few steps backward can help you avoid this if its right after the dodge. If it does hit you prepare yourself. It auto faces and set ups for fire grab. However here’s the thing about fire grab. The cone is garbage and if you move some its likely to miss.

Then you have ring of fire to magnetic grasp (produces http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_Shield fyi). A litte hint Magnetic Grasp is a pretty slow projectile that doesn’t follow so in many cases even without dodging you can side step it.

Where most players get caught is the earth quake churning earth combo. Honestly dont waist the dodge on earthquake if you can manage to dodge it. Don’t stun break. Most of the time its ok to eat the dps from it. Churning earth on the other hand hits hard. Most players try to walk out of the churning earth circle. Most ele carry http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Flash just of the reason. Not only can you not see the circle anymore it can be cast just as earth ends not interrupting the cast..

There are 2 ways to deal with this. first is interrupt the cast. The window is huge at 3 seconds. So you can use one of many interrupts and cancel it. However the best way to counter it is to simply count to 2 and a half and dodge. If you do this while walking out of the circle you’ll likely get the ele to burn a cantrip at the same time. Learn the time it takes to cast and you probably wont ever get hit buy this skill while you have endurance again.

Some more dps minded ele will use skills like http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Wave which can do good dps. However its predictable since most players will look to use such blast finishers in fire fields ie ring of fire burning speed.

Range/Kiting-

Ok so lets say you don’t care if the ele runs away or you have a ranged immobilize with a fast projectile speed or one that’s instant. Ele can be kited. the max range on DD ele weapon set for sustained dps is http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vapor_Blade at 600. If your’e outside of that you could simply kite the ele. While its true ele has many gap closers all of them are counter able. Most players will not exploit this fact. I personally find rifles to be the best weapon to do this on whether warrior or engineer. No matter the range weapon its possible to kite an ele by dodging gap closers and crippling often.

(Note I have and usually beat ele I do this to on warrior with the proper traits).

Shocking Aura-

Easiest way to counter this nifty skill is to switch to range weapon and move out of melee. Aura only works in melee so its easy to counter.

Mist form (downed skill 2)

Simply immobilize once they go into mist form.

Last Notes-

I am not perfect so I may have missed things or there may be disagreement. TBH from the first time i played DD I have been wondering how to counter it. Many of these strategies have worked for me. I find warrior (Rifle/Hammer) to be the best overall when traited but any class can work of course. I personally feel that the best way to counter a DD ele is to know the class inside out. Much like countering a mesmer its about know where the limitations are.

Please add advice. I don’t want this to break out into argument. I think its better to educate than to argue.

I have noticed recently many complaints about DD ele and its survivability. I have also noticed many over inflated ego amongst this community most thinking they are “god mode”. Perhaps I have played long enough to see the flaws or have played enough good players to see the shortcomings. Either way we aren’t unbeatable and there is more whining than learning going on here. Lets change that.

Mobility-

Ele running DD have very strong mobility we all know that. This is usually the chief concern of those trying to “beat” a DD ele. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ride_the_Lightning is the centerpiece of DD mobility. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Speed to a lesser degree also attributes to this plus access to nearly unlimited swiftness on many builds makes DD a hard one to catch.

However this class is far from unbeatable in this area. The absolute best way to deal with ele is to use http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Immobilize during RTL. The reason for this is there is no real counter. RTL once interrupted is over. Even if the immobile is cleansed the skill will end. From there you can DPS cc Etc.

Healing-

Eles in general scale well with healing I won’t go into all the math but yes eles can heal a great amount. The best counter to healing is dps plain and simple. Most of the time pressure will counter healing but the variety of heals ele have most players feel like they cant. Truth is if your speced for some type of survivability build yourself then your not going all that much dps likely. It will become a war of attrition. Until one of you slips up or gives up there wont be an end.

If you do have the dps for it the best times to burn down an ele are right after water attunement and after using a heal skill (if the ele is using http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_restoration its still right after water). Why then? Because the ele likely just burned their healing skills and burned their cleanses. Most ele try to create some level of separation after this if they are being pressured. Don’t let it happen. Stick to them and continue your dps. Expect the RTL counter it and continue dps. Letting up is the mistake so don’t make it. This is the best time to apply conditions cc etc etc. The safety net is gone and for most builds this is the place where cantrips get used. The goal is to force this to happen.

By supplying steady burst at the right times you can burn down the DD ele or at least force the use of survival tools.

One note: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ether_Renewal is the strongest (in terms of raw healing and condition removal) skill we ele have. However its pretty easy to interrupt. The animation is like a long bent over crouch. Its relatively easy to spot.

Cantrips-

for those who don’t know here’s the link (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cantrip). Now for many this is the bread and butter of ele survival. There isn’t much you can do to counter cantrips and honestly you goal should be to get the ele to use them. Why? So they have one less tool on the table. Cantrips by nature have long cool downs. The decision to use one indicates that the ele is being pressured into it.

One note to remember cantrips break stun but they don’t break immobilize (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Fire being the exception but if there are many dots on the target ele there is no guarantee it will be the one removed).

Ill keep my post concise.

-RTL is balanced against other skills that move you (mostly gs skills) please look this up.

-Warriors can literally out run us. (note they also have a trait that breaks snares on the use of movement skills)

-Thieves are the only class with the capability to truly end combat when they choose.

-If you are winning 3 vs 4 than one of 2 things are happening. Your either playing against incredibly bad players or 2 they are lowbies. Competent pvpers will shut most eles down in a 2v1 situation.

-If you are out healing DPS then you are not being hit by dps. Let me repeat if you are out healing dps you are not being DPSed by dps. Take the time to figure it out. True DPS builds (stats for it) will burn you down healing power or no healing power.

-Running a bunker build does not make you good. It doesn’t make you bad either. So if you survive quite well with one its literally doing its job.

Last but not least the more you play the more you will realize that as good as ele is at jock of all trade task its far from OP. There is very little OP in this game just bad players. And I really mean that. Play some more classes to 80 and you’ll understand.

Please hear me out. This whole ele is OP argument is kind of sad now. It isn’t sad because they may nerf some abilities its sad because we aren’t topping anything.

First off DD ele is not broken its a melee class with the easiest to dodge dps combo in the game if you know it. So most players sadly to say suck. The truth is if you know how to beat DD ele then you wont see it the same way. Watch 2 dd eles duel no one gets hit with churning earth.

Now to the main topic. Engi can be more complex to play than ele. Most builds are not. The other thing is most ele play the class rotation or nothing. This gets simple with time. The same with engi though. You could make a kits build that with time gets to be just as simple to execute.

Here’s the real issue. to play ele effectively you have to rotate attunements. To play engi effectively you don’t have to carry kits. At base level engi is a simpler class to simply execute and be alright. Fact is ele has a higher skill requirement for its most basic build than engi does for its’. When it comes to upper level complexity Engi wins. A full kits build will usually be harder to execute properly than most any ele build.

On a side note playing ranger I realized it required me to press one extra key to play effectively compared to ele. I press the same number of keys on my kit build for Engi that I do for ele. Ranger is the most complex class in the game by that logic lol. In all seriousness though of all the classes I have played pet management is the most challenging thing I have had to deal with.

Final note it really doesn’t matter does it? End of the day my ele can do much more than any other class I play. Doesn’t matter how complex it is I can literally be better for the team on ele because its easier to accomplish combos and healing than it is on engi. Honestly you could stay in grenades and be a massive help to your team.

TL;DR: Complexity doesn’t amount to a hill of beans effectiveness does.

Mogar.9216:

toughness 1600+ I like 1900 ish

This is about right. As far as healing power goes for us you take it your right you leave it your still ok. We scale well with healing power not just the active skills but unlike most classes we passive heal a lot. Taking healing power isn’t a bad idea but as far as you personal survival goes specing more vit and toughness pretty much off sets it.

If your going to run DD take a look at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Shielding also

Shaka.9270:

So sigil of battle doesn’t work in OH, So if i have a sigil of battle in my MH and say, a sigil of strength in my OH, will that work? Will both be able to proc?

Short answer is yes.

Ones crit one switch separate cds so yeah they should work together. Afaik battle works in either hand.

ThiBash.5634:

The main reason that I’m not too much into offensive builds is the fact that the current gear options are either all glass cannon or defensive with added power. There’s no middle ground. An example:

Say I wear Power/Toughness/Vitality gear. And I decide I want to do more damage. My options could then be:

Knight’s Gear (Toughness/Power/Precision)
With power demoted to a secondary stat, and precision only half as effective for my dps, I now do the same damage except I get a bit more toughness.

Berserker Gear (Power/Precision/Critical Damage)
Ok, so now I get twice as much damage as that I had before…but the 2 minor stats combined have the same effect as power has by itself, so basically I just lost 25% stat points.

Rampager’s Gear (Precision/Power/Condition Damage)
Power gets booted to second fiddle again, but between precision and condition damage, you’d think I’d do more damage. Well, that would be except they don’t work together at all.

Valkyrie’s Gear (Power/Critical Damage/Vitality)
A decent set…at least Power’s a major stat here. However, what applied for the Knight’s gear applies for this set as well. I will still need to get precision from somewhere or the added damage will be meager at best.

I could continue for the other options but I think I’ve made my point. It takes twice as many stats to increase your damage by the same amount once you’ve maxed out power, and you can max it by picking one of the better defensive sets. Combined with the fact that only D/D has the burst capability required for a crit build, this makes the offensive path very inefficient for the Elementalist. Combine that with the fact that our base defense is the lowest in the game, our best traits are in water&arcana, and you can see why defensive builds are so popular.

What you literally do is spec more soldiers into your accessories and your runes using crest or you do like everyone else and mix and match. Rule of thumb is crit wont mean much without a proc via sigil or trait or crit damage to go with it. So if you just want to hit like a truck and be survivable then you spec full soldiers head to toe. You could end up anywhere between 3k-3.3k attack and defensive too boot.

The middle ground is PVT lol. It is literally the primary offensive stat paired with both defensive stats in equal margins (cant get any more middle than that). Even clerics has power and carrion has vitality and power. There is honestly a bunch of middle of the road stat wise.

Sigh this whole “I hate DD” ,“FOTM” stuff is garbage. Spoon fed? sure I read the builds others put up and over time its changes simple as that.

Lets get some misconceptions out of the way.

First off is that every DD ele is someone who is new to the class. I am 400 hours in on my toon so this is not new.

Second fire line is mostly garbage and if you have played the game longer than a min you realize whether your dps or tank only depends on gear and traits are by far secondary. Stats are what matter.

Third. Placing points in arcane has less to do with the traits and more to do with the reductions. Its not newb to be efficient. I remember when they nerfed EA I tried to spec out of it. Beside missing having the skill the cd on attunement messed up my chains and overall flow. It was unacceptable for my play style. I think that how it is for many eles. We have griped for months that base attunement cd should shorter.

Fourth, ele is one of the strongest support classes in the game. Not everyone started the class to spec into power/precision. And while its true it should be a very viable option at the same time realize the strengths of each class. Thief support is garbage compared to us and guardians. Most other classes are the same. that’s just how it is some lines on some classes are nearly too good to pass up ( see shatter mesmer ).

Fifth. WvW is about mobility when roaming. DD is super mobile. When at a siege I switch to staff. Its not anymore complex than this. When running with a zerg you may want to go S/D for some mobility and range but most of the time unless your chasing a properly traited GS warrior or a thief you’ll likely catch up and CC the target on DD.

As far s your last question goes. Dependent upon the situation each weapon set shines. Not going to break each down but look at S/F strongest defenses you get out of our class, with strong scaling with condition damage, more cc than most targets can handle, lots of auras, and completely lethal vs someone using a projectile weapon (not all ranged weapons use projectiles see scepter fire, wind, and necromancer )

In the long run you don’t have to but can carry each weapon set for versatility. the last 3 trait lines scale well with our support capabilities just like it does with other support capable classes. DD is fotm at the moment but there was bunker staff before that and you never had to put points into arcane to run that build so……..

One last thing you don’t have to come up with your own build. We share builds that work because we are a community no more no less. There finite options as far as build diversity goes in this game. Many builds will look alike even if you trait 20 or so points differently. The only thing that matters is that no matter what build you use you play it to the best of your capability. You don’t have to create the recipe just prepare it well. That not an excuse to be lazy and not add your own touches in the process but there no point reinventing the whole recipe.

Biomanz.9302:

I’ve never seen any ele surviving 2-3 min of straight up tanking 2-3 guys in spvp at least. It doesn’t seem possible (i main an ele). But we’ll need to know what main weapon he was using. Only ele that I’ve seen that are impossible to kill are the d/d who use Ride the Lightning to escape.

Anybody who knows better will immobilize the ele when they pop rtl. good eles do it to each other all the time. The thing is most player think its burst or nothing. They try to keep fights short so don’t really use tactics like timing counters etc. This can be effective as a pressured spike can force you to blow cool downs as they blow their own. The problem is when players start using efficient counters that don’t rely on using every “trick in the bag” so to speak just to survive.

Arheundel.6451:

Zantetsuken.9051:

FourTwenty.4268:

Zantetsuken.9051:

This is a symptom of the burst/bunker issue that is plaguing PvP at the moment. It takes one of the stupidly high burst builds to counter one of the stupidly high healing builds.

I like that though. it helps add to the paper/rock/scissors element to it all, which to me, adds sooooo much more to the meta.

I could be totally off since im not in any high level tpvp yet. . .but i do enjoy that added layer of strategy/complexity/whatever you wanna call it

but sure, if you wanted to go 1v1 you’d need the silly high burst. focus fire works wonders though

In my mind a bunker should be a high health, high defense player, that takes a lot of time to kill. Fail to burst a bunker to death in GW2 and he resets the fight, and you have to start again from scratch. Instead of wearing him down, where everything you have done to him counts, his high healing nullifies it, meaning you wasted your time and cooldowns.

This is a bad way of doing it in my mind, as it requires co-ordinated teamwork (which isn’t going to happen in a pug) instead of just being able to blast away and eventually kill them.

It is because of this, that the sick burst exists. Add them both together, and people will complain because it simply isn’t any fun to fight against. 3 people being thwarted against a single player because they were pugging and unable to communicate and co-ordinate is bad design for a game that you want to market to the masses.

Over 3/4 of those fightning an ele got no clue of how an ele work, I don’t see why somebody who practice for months should lose to a bunch of newbs who randomly spamm buttons, because only somebody who practice for months can survive against an onslaught:

http://i.imgur.com/0NK8d.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JktJS.jpg

Do you see the difference between an experienced ele and a new one? This is not a profession that you start playing today and faceroll people and people should realize that

While i don’t disagree with your point that ele is not a pick up and play class. Spvp numbers in a pug pick up are well “misleading” after you look at the ranks you sort of figure it out. The longer you play the more you learn. The class doesn’t matter in that zergfest because its very hard to paint a decent description of skill in that environment. The only real way to figure out who’s a better ele is to duel but this is irrelevant also given the nature of the game. In the 8 v8 zergfest we call spvp its nearly impossible to judge a players skill past whether they were smart enough to stick with the zerg or not. Being an ele or no makes next to no difference. If you play to maximize points you’ll do just that.

Case in point many bunkers wont get skirmisher because they sit on the capture point. This greatly decreases their score but their usefulness to the team usually goes unquestioned. The number of points hey receive has no real bearing on their skill level.

Its appropriate. We don’t need more stealth. It’s class appropriate due to staff mechanics ie the bouncing random boons. Its basically save yourself so I get your point but unless its OP there is no reason to change what gets stolen.

Hmm my short answers on Ele http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shocking_Aura will negate the chain.

On thief http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadowstep , http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Signet, or http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinding_Powder does the trick.

The trick is to kill the chain after C and D and create separation before the Heartseeker spam.

Ranger
For ranger its tricky. Here how I usually deal with it. You need a stun breaker you only get 2 options (I know wtf) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Renewal and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Reflexes Either is fine. After that its up to your build. I run a BM build so basically the minute I see your kitten and you try to burn me down I switch sword and pet at the same time. Because of the way the Beast master tree works that means I have quickness now and sword the fact I switched to my cool pet means your either going to be knock down now or dotted up. The sword auto attack does the rest.

Not really sure how to explain main hand sword on ranger but basically auto attack off with no target selected plus the evades noting is really going to touch you. Once you figure out how to use monarchs leap to create distance it becomes your go to gap closer and maker. Switch to short bow and any glass cannon will be in line for a proper kitten whipping. Its twice the work of any counter I know but pretty consistent once you figure out the evade timing etc.

TL:DR

Over all glass thief is usually an easy counter. More tanky thieves are actually harder to deal with.

Edit:

Forgot http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Return is a monster.

MarzAttakz.9608:

Could well be a s/f bunker with Shamen/Carrion. Only question is which trait permutation he’s running. Answering the above post will make figuring out the traits alot easier.

I was wondering this too at first but no OP was pretty clear about the weapon set in the follow up post (gotta read those lol) saw both RTL and Grab combo.

ThiBash.5634:

Maybe he combined the signet with a massive amount of healing power, and maybe a dolyak signet added to that.

With the proper setup, he could basically get 4 types of ‘permanent regeneration’. They would be normal regeneration, the passive from the signet, the passive from water attunement (which can be made permanent with the arcana major trait) and the passive regeneration from the dolyak’s rune.

Combine that with toughness…

After reading the OP seeing he didn’t burn you down and reading this I think ThiBash might have hit the nail on the the head so to speak. However we can explore farther.

A few questions for the OP

Now remember there are a lot of DD eles here and we are a pretty open community so even if the guy doesn’t post we would likely figure out most of it not all the traits depending on your recollection.

1st did he pop stability? If so was it at 50% life or before that?

2nd You said he didn’t pop mist form? if that is correct I would like to know if he popped a shield?

3rd How was he on cleansing conditions? His attunment rate should be fairly long with only 10 points into arcane so was he removing 2 on attunement or 1? At other times were conditions being removed regularly as you saw his health bar tick up?

4th How hard was the guy hitting? I imagine no very much but you have likely faced glass cannons and bunkers in the past as well as some balanced builds so give an estimate if you can.

5th did you ever see the signet symbol above his head? If yes was it relatively often and different symbols? If not did you ever see him sort of crouch down with a glow?

Last but not least the boons how long were they up? Kind of tricky I know but his base boon duration is 10% this is not every long so if he was boon stacking we can get an idea of the rune set.

0/0/30/30/10 is a common build. There aren’t all that many combos that would make sense that aren’t known. He may have simply executed the build masterfully. Either way some of the questions I asked might help us nail down the build. The runes and sigils may be tricky but its possible to figure out the rough build.

Hmm.

Fun Factor- Any class its about the individual player.

PvP viablity:
Spvp – Mesmer Thief
Tpvp – Memser Guardian
WvW – Mesmer Thief (roaming)

PvE:
Sustained DPS – Any class can do this
Tanking – Warrior Guardian and Elementalist can do this well Necromancer and Engineer also have builds that tank well
Group utility – Guardian/Ele and warrior there are other support builds but these classes have the strongest ones.

Solo:
1 mob – Burst thief Ranger
2-3 mobs – Warrior SB Thief
4-10 mobs – Necromancer Ele

Best class?

The one I play just like everyone else.

However, in all seriousness given a situation facing an unspecified task in the game Ele and Guardian have the most overall utility. this doesn’t make them the best class but if I had to those best in most situations I would stick with those 2.

Adaneshade.2409:

Can’t believe engineer isn’t mentioned here with grenades……infinite spam, no cooldown strongest blast finisher ever.

While engi has quite a few blast finishers non are truly spamable. Heres the list http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blast_Finisher.

This is the type of build I would never run but I really have to applaud the idea. Its super gimmicky but really smart. Going to be honest here hope you keep them coming.

Hmm. this is the reason my alt is a thief. On ele I keep to rotation when I can vs a smart opponent I will break it just to throw them off.

My comparison is this. Every other class is playing jingles. No combo fields sticking to a weapon set. 4 or 5 keys your done and it’s wash rinse repeat. We on the other hand are playing classical music complex beautiful but still its sheet music and has a pattern and an order its just longer and more complex. Thief is the only class allowed (but not necessarily) to play jazz without the sheet music. Hit what ever skill you like whenever you like sure you run out of init but its there. So you can literally spam one skill like DB or you can be complex like SD.

However, I should reiterate this playing against a good player or another DD ele running a rotation is a dumb move. Might stacks be danged I rather win. Ill go air earth to shut someone down if need be and stay in fire to melee them to death or switch water and stack invul while kiting then burst. While PvE may feel this way most other classes don’t have our freedom of choice.

One other thing I realized but it maybe just me. I rarely auto attack for long period of time. I think the rotations are so hard wired that we just never stop. Honestly you can sit in fire or air and get most things done with auto attack.

Sorry for the long post but a funny story that taught me a lesson. I once was fighting another DD ele and while I was running my rotation he calmly say in fire and DPSed me with auto attack. He was dodging all the combo and after i expended all my cds he kept burning me down in fire. After I got my kitten handed to me I realized He wasn’t really dodging much. I wasn’t really pressuring him with auto attack. My failure to slow down my pace and use auto attack led to me losing. Same thing would happen vs mesmers.

A few pieces of advice. Carry other weapon sets its helps break the monotony. Don’t worry about your rotation so much. Challenge yourself. go fight an unbelievable amount of mobs or got spvp and attempt to troll a bit. It sounds mean but it will open up your eyes to what can be done with the class when we stop worrying about the rotation. Also your level 40 go craft a few levels and come back with fresh eyes the grind sucks. Explore the world later level now.

I notice a lot of people comparing us to thief and mesmer in particular backstab thief and shatter mesmer. While its true or mobility is above average I can say with assurance the fastest class in the game is GS warrior speced for it (seriously look it up).

The way I feel is this. While its true we are able to troll a group of unskilled, new, and/or low level players like a mesmer or a thief could. It is also true we have no stealth. When we do something we don’t just stop being a target. The other thing is the vast majority of builds that let us do anything like this are defensive in stats. Our burst combo is also the most telegraphed in the game.

Beside people jumping on the FOTM band wagon it feels to me that the builds and the classes are just too far apart. I feel what we do is too different to be considered in the same class. this isn’t about ele elitism but I just don’t see the similarity.

Esplen.3940:

TheGuy.3568:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy is still the most OP piece of crap skill. Either other skill like it get brought up or it gets toned down (probably neither will happen).

So, because you don’t want to roll behind us or run a stunbreaker, we’re op. Could say the same for any other class if you don’t want to run a skill that prevents them from stomping you. It’s like going against a Necro with absolutely no Daze, Confusion, Condition/Boon Removal and expecting to come out on top.

Lol from my whole post that’s what you read. Even though I agreed that mesmers really aren’t OP over all.

Its the evade (HB doesn’t have this) and the auto facing ( HB and PW don’t have). If you didn’t realize that what i was talking about you shouldn’t comment. You have got to realize nothing with that type of cool down evades that long nothing not even http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death_Blossom. 2.5 seconds is a lifetime in PvP. And on top of that it Auto-faces so yeah kittening OP end of story.

BTW they don’t plan to change this at all so why the kitten do you feel it necessary to even point this out for discussion. I could say its out of line all day they aren’t going to touch it I even said that in my OP. Next time read the whole thing instead of looking for an argument. Read what I said. I proposed that they buff the 2 other skills to be inline with Frenzy ie auto facing or they nerf it to be inline with pistol whip and hundred blades.

Its players like you that make the rest of us think that mesmers are populated by players so defensive that actual skills that are out of line can’t even be discussed. No one is trying to teal your candy and I am so jaded I realize they aren’t going to touch it so take you defensive garbage elsewhere.

I went DD after I saw daphoenix solo a champ. Had nothing to do with pvp at the time. Reason I play DD still is for the challenge. While normal content gets easier I feel like ele is a class that takes time to perfect.

Real reason I play ele now is that my stats are middle of the road everywhere save precision. I do enough dps to be good for the team and I heal quite a bit. Ele is the only class where I am not asked to sacrifice survivability to do decent dps.

Edit:

I am 346 hours in on this toon alone it is my main nerf or no nerf I don’t see another class filling the gap.

Kerithlan.1659:

TheGuy, my post was comparing spamming Cluster Bomb multiple times for multiple activations within a short period of time to having Mighty Blow available more frequently and as a natural/organic part of hammer guardian gameplay. Your post is irrelevant because it isn’t what I was discussing.

We were discussing team utility between the thief short bow and the guardian hammer, and we were discussing bursting all of your initiative for 4-5 activations once every so often versus the hammer activating things once consistently.

Cluster Bomb cannot be activated 4-5 times in a row unless the thief is standing inside of or directly next to the combo field, as the flight time of the projectile simply does not allow it to be so. In order for Cluster Bomb to activate naturally/organically, it will be slower than a guardian with the hammer as the guardian will already be in melee and will already be inside of the combo field.

Mighty Blow can be used point blank to hit a foe point blank without the guardian moving, or it can be utilized to allow for the guardian to hop ~300 units. This is infinitely faster than a projectile moving between 300-1200 units as the leap animation is simply quicker than the projectile’s speed.

The thief shortbow is a good weapon that can be used for party support just as effectively as the guardian hammer can be, but in the odd gimmicky scenarios you’ve presented for discussion it becomes nothing more than a burst stick. This renders the thief almost useless for 3-5 seconds. The hammer guardian, meanwhile, does not become less effective when he/she performs similar tasks.

It isn’t misinformation — it’s fact. Hitting 2-5 burst finishers in a short amount of time (using your Geyser example, 2 seconds) is incredibly situational, reduces the thief’s efficiency for a short while, places the thief in an unfavorable field position, and does not provide any significant long-term advantage over the thief playing normally.

I’ve been discussing that. If you want to argue that this is somehow incorrect then be my guest, but please do so without patronizing me as you’ve done here.

Sigh you didn’t read my previous post. Staying ignorant is your choice using words like “natural” does not make what you say fact i literally timed the projectile times at 300 range to respond to you. It makes sense since my post full of math, numbers, and actual data is “irrelevant” to you. BTW 300-1200 read my response “Speed” you might learn something. To think how I even explain that the natural cool down on Cluster Bomb is 3.99 seconds and that you don’t have to spam it but it is an actual option unlike mighty blow. Lol I must be an kitten for even starting this thread or explaining anything in detail. How foolish.

Quick succession might stacking requires successive blast finishers. Its not gimmicky but a way of playing the game. I used water as an example but almost all fields benefit from quick succession stacks. fire Field might stacking is part of the game play and requires quick blast done successively. Some examples of how difficult it usually is.

Pre Evasive Arcana Nerf
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xsz5cf_s-d-might-stacking-spike_videogames#.UN4Sr2_h8mA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWq7pFybAIk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy6xpGGubCk

Either way you wont read or understand what I am telling you. I realize your trolling now and I have fed you (shame on me). Should have realized considering your a hammer guardian. Ignorance is bliss and you are welcome to it.

Ohh btw spamming cluster bomb and using poison field is part of normal short bow play. Some one dropped a water field in WvW today taking a keep I did 8k healing in about 5 seconds, to everyone around me.

@Kerithlan.1659

I will use your criteria "positioning, speed, and consistency. "

Positioning – Cluster Bomb is a ground targeted attack allowing the player to use it anywhere within its 1200 range. Mighty blow is a melee attack with a range of 300 and thus requires the player to place himself in harms way to pull if the blast finisher.

Speed – Cluster Bomb at the range of 300 takes roughly 2 second from button press to detonation. Might blow takes considerably less time at 3/4 of a second. However, due to the fact that cluster bomb can be activated again immediately after detonation at the same distance you would get 2 bombs off for every 1 traited Mighty Blow. If both are in point blank melee range the execution is roughly the same span of time and CB has no cool down.

Consistency – Might blow can be used every 5 seconds untraited every 4 traited. CB untraited can be used every 3.99 seconds as init regen is 1.33 seconds per every one init so roughly every 4 seconds after expending the entire bar you can use CB. When traited for init regen CB becomes even more consistent.

I’ll add 1 more.

Range – Cluster bomb can be used at range to apply finishers in fields meant to disable or hurt enemies ie poison and dark. Looking at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Poison_Field you’ll see that all player skills are ranged. And with the exception of one pet skill so are those. This leads to situations that without putting anyone in harms way you can complete combos. Added note all http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_Field have the capability to be ranged when traited for it.

Cluster Bomb is the superior blast finisher. This isn’t an opinion but fact. The math backs it up.

I had a long post planned to point everything out but this condensed version should simplify my point and make it easy to understand. In every aspect at least compared to Mighty Blow Cluster Bomb is better. Please don’t pass on false information to the community. It is to the determent of us all as a whole. Accept your mistake and do some research of your own. In group play its best to know what works best. It will make you a better and more flexible. As I said before someone pointed it out to me. I researched what they said and found that they were correct and I was wrong. Just trying to pass that information on to others like a good member of the community would.

Ensign.2189:

Cluster Bomb really is the best blast finisher; it’s the only one that can potentially get multiple activations per field. The ability to chain it like that is really key to making it so awesome.

Mighty Blow and the Guardian’s Hammer in general are super strong, it’s right up there with Cluster Bomb and available on a set you want to be using anyway.

The Warrior blast finishers are on marginal weapons and on 10 second cooldowns, and clearly aren’t in the same league as a result.

Dragon’s Tooth is interesting. Yes, it’s spammable, and can be used often; unfortunately using it often would mean you’re sitting in Fire, which means you’re bad at the game. The main value of Dragon’s Tooth is that you can lay down a field and trigger it yourself every time, which is pretty strong.

In sum, Mighty Blow and Cluster Bomb are outstanding blast finishers, and Elementalist is pretty sexy with its combination of strong fields plus a good finisher to trigger it immediately.

Don’t get me wrong skill chain 1 for guardian hammer plus mighty blow is stupid good.

I didn’t come up with cluster bomb is good. In another thread (ele sub-forum) its was pointed out to me. I investigated and realized it was probably the best blast in the game.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/BEst-healing-combo-group-play/first#post1084233

On another note DD ele with evasive arcana can get up to 3 in quick succession but no spammable. S/D ele and S/F ele 4 not counting utility blast. Though I am not a fan of conjures this is pretty good too http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thunderclap_

DXIEdge.2789:

I’m a D/D Ele, but a lot of people are beginning to use Staff/Bunker styles or are switching to Thief for w/e reason.

shrugs I still like D/D, A lot of people are still posting in Daphoenix’s thread…The less there is the more likely we wont get nerfed for QQ’rs so…

I’m happy as is

I second this. I like D/D as is. FOTM can ruin a good build. I still find it funny we got nerfed before the wave came over to D/D ele.

Kerithlan.1659:

TheGuy.3568:

In the game. Because of the instant access to blast finisher it might be the best group/combo play weapon of them all.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mighty_Blow
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthshaker
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcing_Arrow
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon%27s_Tooth

These all function more or less in the same way as shortbow #2. They’re blast finishers with a spammable quality. In my personal opinion Mighty Blow and the guardian hammer are more useful for group/combo play (especially since Mighty Blow is on a 5 second cooldown, which is infinitely more spammable than Cluster Bomb).

Ok now we cna discuss. I agree about blow. But what you missed was that it even has a cd. Now lets discuss fields and how long they are up.

Lets start with water

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Geyser 2 seconds so equal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Rain Now this is where it starts to get intersting. With perfect play you could get 2 might blows off in the field. Now knowing the skill and its Innate movement it might be tricky to pull off both blows (by no means impossible). Now cluster bomb At point blank range flight time is under second with execution it its a little over a second. Now with the up time of the field you could pull off between 4 and 6 blast finishers (trait for more init regen etc). Cluster Bomb is clearly superior

Now lets go to a longer field (and one of the longest in the game) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Spring which is up for 15 seconds. With Mighty Blow that 3 blast finishers with perfect play, Now Cluster bomb with the base init pool can be cast 4 times. If you account for natural Initiative regen in the 15 seconds you’ll replenish 11.27 init. Meaning you can cast 3 more bombs for a total of 7 blast.

Now you may argue for reduced Hammer CD but if you account for how much extra regen you can get for init including gaining init from crit and the increased pool ( from 12-15) thief doesn’t only have more upper limit potential for blast finishers but it has no movement.

Beside the fact that all the skills you mentioned have CDs Mighty blow leaps you forward so you need to position to actually land in the field. Earth Shaker is limited by adrenaline and a 10 second cd. Arching Arrow same 10 second cd. Dragon tooth has a number of issues one. without a target it will cast roughly 750 m ahead of you. Putting the player out of the field. If it does have a target you would have to be next to the mob who is also in the field. It also doesn’t cast sometime when it doesn’t have a target.

I apologize for the long reply but your argument was heavily flawed and I felt it needed a detailed response.

Guys need to learn to read the wiki.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cone_of_Cold 32%
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Wave 100%

Rest is elsewhere and is the same across sets.

I will tell you with enough healing power you wont need to use your heal if its the signet. Reason I have EA still revolves around this fact. Ele overall scales very well with healing power D/D is no exception.

Loviatrix. has more precision than me but were in the same ball park I have 802 healing power and might stacks plus the high base damage of churning earth make up for the rest.

Ohh and your biggest heal is http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Ripple. for argument sake staff http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Rain as water field is strong but due to CDs its not. On a funny note scroll back up to Cleansing wave. Read its tooltip. Its the same As ripple. In fact its better it has an innate cleanse. Now think of that combined with http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evasive_Arcana and the regen you get on attunement (if traited most are though) and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soothing_Mist. Now while regen and mist don’t scale well they heal often and stack. Now add in http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Restoration. Except the signet all the rest is group healing

Now think about it. The strongest weapon set heal as far as scaling goes is on none other than Dagger off hand save the beastly http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Water_Trident which no one uses so it doesn’t count lol joking.

To repeat. Ele overall scales very well with healing power D/D is no exception.

This may kitten some staff eles off but were all DD here. Cone of cold if you look at it is the most consistent no passive heal we have. Its on a low cd of10 seconds (so it lines up with the lowest attunement cd), its mobile (so you can move with other players), it has relatively strong dps (vs no dps from other healing skills save the beastly water trident), and it has a decent range.

In the game. Because of the instant access to blast finisher it might be the best group/combo play weapon of them all.

Is each skill in the chain OP? Nope. The chain itself is a little insane. I realized today that my tanky thief lost almost no survivability going for more dps. Thieves have insane burst and no real risk. Its a little insane but there are some things to remember. Real glass cannons (3 hits total) Have no condition wipes and low hp pools dot them with anything good and even in stealth its over.

I only have one real issue with mesmer. The number of stunbreakers available to you guys is fine. Their cool downs are way to short. Shatter is a little OP in melee and yes your elite skills are insanely good. Too good. But not OP. And yeah I did I do the play for a week thing. Honestly Mesmer is still OP and easy but not OP in the, “Nerf it to the ground!”, way.

Things I noticed is that its slow really slow. Its got great range but its chase down is garbage. AOE = Laughable I could do more dps with a shortbow thief (in fact I do). Utility? When was the last time you saw some one run Mantras? DPS sort of tricky. Confusion vs a player is kitten near OP in WvW (but the game isnt balanced around that) in Spvp its still a little much. Confusion in PvE is a joke. Most mobs swing far too infrequently. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy is still the most OP piece of crap skill. Either other skill like it get brought up or it gets toned down (probably neither will happen).

And on a little note as far as PvE goes mesmers are useful for portal and that’s about it. Not insulting you guys (support specs need some love) but its like thief. Half the time you know another class would probably be better for the party.

As far as the skill threshold. After months of ele all those arguments sound and smell like bullkitten. After play mesmer still sound like bullkitten. You have a rotation and all your really doing is timing. On ele I wont even start a damage rotation till chaos storm is dropped. There is a rotation you can spot it. Honestly you know don’t you guys? Its not really that hard. Some ele admit it to stop acting leet and admit it.

A short story my second toon in this game was a mesmer. I went to WvW at level 20 and proceeded to drop full exo 80s with GS and Staff. It felt really OP to me. I went into PvE and every fight early on was a struggle whilst I watched warriors and thieves brush through content. PvP felt OP pve UP. So I shelved and eventually deleted the toon. I don’t think the story has changed much. In PvP 1v1 mesmer is a force. However in PvE its a one trick pony.

Instead of crying nerf this or that try and see the big picture. Sure mesmer is loved in Tpvp and is a monster in WvW but in PVE its lack luster and honestly might be the lowest class on the bracket. That might be the cost of being boss. Thieves are very much the same. Sure they can rez and help you grab skill nodes but what else is there? Blast finishers no cd except init.