Guild Wars 2

Its OP what else can be said. Same bs we have seen in every mmo since the start. We can argue here on how to counter, and how only good players can counter this, and regale each other in stories about how good we each are, and how great we are at countering the BS. That doesn’t change the fact its OP bullkitten now does it?

I love my P/D thief and blah blah I’m so good in pvp with it. Fact is if you use stealth than burst is a no no and if you have burst stealth should be a no no. I find it funny that the mmo that has seen the most amount of attention to detail and design in the last 5 years has failed to realize rule number one. Nerf the invisibility, burst, and/or stun lock in beta.

Say the OP sucks maybe hes not a good pvper it doesn’t change the fact that so many run this same kitteny build and everyone acts like they don’t know why. I scoff at any attempt to defend this. The quicker we get this nerf over with the quicker we get back to demanding the bugs be fixed and that the classes that actually need help get it.

Basically what Kat said. On D/D your faster than everyone else. You can tag like a king. Use your aoes and personally evasive arcana especially earth close second fire let me tag just running around. Cone of cold is one of my best taggers because it hits so hard.

The other thing is despite our crappy auto attack fire and air (when its not being buggy) are great for tagging.

Hmm afaik healing is not meant to out pace dps ie if 2 bunkers fight each other heads up infinitely a winner should be decided at some point in time. That being said you can spec to heal but most of the time players will not stand still for you to heal them. That doesn’t mean support heal is impossible. I see staff ele toss out healing quite a bit.

The real thing to remember is that the best tactic for survival for any player in this game is flat out evasion and not eating the hit. By going support ele you can help them stay alive as they attempt to dodge damage.

The other thing to remember is that as an ele you are versatile healing is one small part of that versatility. In many parties what ever weapon you use you will be healing, dpsing, and setting up combo fields all at the same time. You may even have to tank.

TL DR
Yes its possible to be a healer. Just remember we do more than that and that their is more to healing than just healing.

Glass cannon warrior is fine. But fact is most people in dungeons are terrible with it. Last time I did HOTW the glass cannon warrior spent most of the dungeon on the floor complaining about not getting support. Mean while on Ele I tanked adds 2 bosses and healed and my dps is decent too. I actually rather carry a dps warrior than other builds.

Lets be honest here. Being pure dps is fine. Bringing no utility when your not built for it is also fine. The only thing your other parties members want is to not have to pick you up every other second. Use your dodge carry a shield off hand for he hard times and dps to your hearts content,

Sigh get over it. The nerf needs to happen and that’s about it. Its not about the dps but about how there is very little glass in your cannon. Either they nerf the glass (stealth) which has already been done or they nerf the cannon (c&d steal backstab combo).

Lets get this straight. 100b is not backstab. Its slow clunky and easy to avoid. For all the qq from the community I hear more qq from thieves all running the same build. each of who feel they have got real skill. Fact is when they nerf it like they have nerfed every glass cannon thief since the start of mmos many of you will quit. Your “I win!” toy will be broken and you will cry foul play. Fact is stealth haste 2 second combos that do massive damage should not be in mmos anymore.

You know there’s a saying “A wise man learns from the mistakes of others.” This is a mistake that gets repeated over and over in mmo development but no one ever learns. The pattern never changes. Thieves. rogues. assassins. any class with 2 daggers and the ability to turn invisible run around winning in pvp, ganking in open world, and feel like their balanced. History shows us its never ever never balanced as a mechanic. It never has been and it never will be.

My advice to you is to learn. When ever you move onto your next game and you choose to run around 2 daggers and stealth. If you notice you are winning a lot. Stop roll any other class and see if you can produce the same results. If you can’t then your rogue, assassin, thief etc is op and is in need of a nerf and guess what it will happen. That’s the way the story goes.

If you really care about the class demand they make the other builds more viable, Stop relying on the same weak mechanics to get your wins, and most of all stop playing dumb like you all don’t get why people are kittening pissed about this. There are 8 classes and one build on one class demands this much attention. It’s disgusting at this point that the thief forums is all QQ whether it be from other players or thieves afraid of a nerf.

Eat the nerf make you new builds that work and prove your’e actually good.

@Alistair Cardozo

To let you know. Nerfs/balancing are in no way balanced around WvW. The devs said this from the start. As an example “Save Yourself!” last the full 10 seconds in WvW. sPvP is the key balancer.

After running around in a “gown” I realized I wanted to wear pants. I also realized I was very mobile so I wanted my armor to reflect that thus the vigil set + the Mesmer starting mask option 3.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/62783-superior-rune-of-the-warrior/

but there is an easy way to test this yourself. Go to mist and just use the set and see if you get a reduction.

Mine 80 D/D vigil set mesmer starter mask

MF the trait earth is more than enough.

@ OP going to give you some general info that might help.

I know this much anyone who actually “rushes” the pack is at least 20 points into both the last 2 trait trees (water and arcane) or 20 into water and more into earth (trait line 3). They aren’t flat out surviving they are surprising lol. My point is if you all focus fire that one players you likely kill them or force the retreat. That being said the common elements beside the points are cantrips 2-3 http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cantrip (also look at the trait at the bottom of the link page to understand why we put points in water) . D/D obviously for RTL http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ride_the_Lightning . The earth skills you are talking about are http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthquake and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Churning_Earth but the big one is churning earth. To get the cast to hit you usually neeed to cc the targets (with earthquake) and if that isn’t enough you can use http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Shield or precast and use http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Flash toward the end of the cast and port to the location. Another option is to RTL in and immediately cast updraft http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Updraft. http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcs look at water tree specifically traits 3 and 5.

Hope it helps. Look at the various post from D/D ele here and you will get a better idea of what builds work for WvW.

These responses make me want to beat my head against a wall. So I will keep this short. WE ARE THE STRONGEST CLASS IN PVE. What one single well played ele can do no one else can. I get it some builds are weak but others put everyone else to shame. Invest in P/V/T gear cleric jewelry or just learn more about game mechanics. For instance a knockdown is better than a blind, wind pet is an op monster, and aoe over single target always.

You really have 3 options see big pretty numbers, be useful wherever you go, or both.

The thing is….sigh. Maybe I am getting this wrong but is this a staff vs D/D thing? I literally walked into a supply point with 4 vets 2 were ranged and took it solo. Were there some close calls? Yes! The funny thing is I saw another D/D ele do it the other day. So I never understand these ele is so hard to survive with threads.

OP was in FS the dredge camp. For example I strolled in there fought like one or 2 mobs(ran in solely for the veins), just out ran the area, and walked out fresh as daisies. We can kill 8-10 regular mobs at a time while kiting. A warrior with a glass cannon build can’t really do that because they don’t have that sort of aoe.

Windwalker.2047:

Healing glyph+quick glyphs trait+glyph mastery trait=perma 33%ms
The passives are crap dont bother with them

This and much more.

Listen OP you are literally playing the fastest class in the game. If you knew how many zergs I have out run it would get you to understand.

RTL + Aura boon + heal glyph boon and add in lightning flash to out run your own people and your golden.

if you use any rtl combo plus swiftness correctly you will out run perma 33%.

@LightningLockey

First off tank builds exist and are all around you just read the forums. Second, survivability on ele is pretty strong. If you cant handle 2 vs 1 with regular monsters than honestly its you, your build, or your gear.

For example today I was in WvW and took a supply point solo. That 4 vets 2 are ranged and I did it solo. I am not bragging because I saw another ele rush in and do the same thing the other day. VS regular mobs you can 4-5 if ranged is in the mix and 8-10 if its all melee (though maybe someone could do more).

Warrior can not be an ele with a rifle. Not hating on warrior but rifle is far from a good aoe weapon and just about every weapon setup we have has some sort of AoE.

The OP dueled a tanky ele so they are out there. Read this thread when you get a chance.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Tanky-DPS-Elementalist-Videos-included-updated-10-28/page/5#post594724

and this one

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/D-D-Ele-Condition-Tank-Heal-build-Vid-s-Inside/first#post602529

jlneedham.8219:

Thx everyone for all your input I def. have some things to try and learn. @ Aaron, have they really said this build was too powerful and that they are looking into it? Where is this posted at? If anything I’d say this class needs buffing in other areas to make everyone not want to go bunker.

That was posted like a month ago. They were looking into all bunker builds. They never said the nerf was guaranteed just that 30/30 earth water was too survivable. If you have noticed the first round of those nerfs went out and hit guardians save yourself. Luckily the nerf applied solely to pvp. It wouldn’t shock me if a nerf went out but atm ele is one of those glasses that is missing something namely burst. Of the builds we can you they require more effort to get the same amount of work done. Many of us are fine with that but if you add in the bugs a nerf to us right now would effectively be a class killer. I don’t think the class would become unplayable but out of the sheer frustration many would likely quit.

The one thing we all know is that when an ele does the bunker thing they are working hard to do it.

Arc.9374:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Fixing-Conjure-Fiery-Greatsword

Great minds think alike what do you want me to tell you?

Having them stowed would work too. The point is I personally have no incentive to carry one of these. Cantrips shield another blast all work hand in hand with the way I play. The elite is the only one where maybe something could be done and I would probably use it.

Lightning hammer without the charges might take a slot too the extra cc would be great.

Aether McLoud.1975:

I just want dagger water5 do be a water field

This or make it a blast.

Great idea. Makes sense to me.

Or maybe just one conjure weapon that attunes to the others. Like a new elite that goes to bow once in water, axe once in fire, shield once in earth and hammer once in air. I don’t know, but I hate how I got no reason to use these thing because the idea is so great.
Also charges should be done away with and weapons get a flat cooldown.

Any in combat weapon swap would be OP. I am not going to lie I lol’d hard at some of these responses. Its like you guys don’t realize that in combat swap to a good ele might as well be an I win button in WvW PvE and sPvP. Too many buttons my kitten With a single key bind this would open me up to 40 skills and no cool down because the rotation I would rock would be only limited by how fast I could attune.

In-fact I change my mind I second this. I already zerg raids an survive for the fun of it give me staff healing and aoe on top of that. I am serious here. Show me that much power and I will show you 10 eles who are as good or better than me who will break the game. Worst I will do is leave it with heavy bruises.

All kidding aside bad idea get used to your range and be a king or queen with it as is.

Start your own group problem solved. You cant force other players to play how you want or blame them for hedging their bets by going with nothing but 80s.

Whats wrong with conditions?

The stacks don’t work well when 2 people or more run condition. Run with a necro, a guardian, a P/D, or D/D blossom thief, rifle warrior, short bow ranger, P/S P/P engineer and some staff mesmer builds and you will understand. The overwrites are a pain. That doesn’t mean condition damage is bad. Theoretically in a long fight you do more with condition damage (if you have enough conditions) than you will with direct.

In the long run though power crit combos just mesh better with others. There is 0 wrong with going with condition damage as long as you have enough power to back up all the direct damage you have.

Michael.1268:

I had said that better players will clear off conditions quickly in a previous post. I still stand by that. Luckily, enough people in WvW either don’t know they can clear conditions or don’t notice they have conditions on them. I often see my bleeds go their full duration.

I know that I’ve made assumptions that people are bad, but until I’m proven wrong it is working for me.

Got to sort of disagree. Burst players usually don’t carry enough condition removal to survive the dots anyway. Good condition spammers wait for you to blow the cleanses then dot you again or just continuously dot you. The more conditions the more likely you cant get rid of them all.

I will say this I usually heal through/cleanse conditions in such a way its not to big of a worry. I have faced some rifle warriors that just continue to pour it on.

Look if your going to shoot for it then expect to go through this. Anybody who came from Aion and certain other Korean mmos knows what I am talking about. At least in this situation its basically a choice. The stats aren’t game breaking and you are basically trying for a skin. Its supposed to be tough so it sets you apart from the rest of us. I wish the OP luck but that’s about it. When you get your weapon I hope you realize that almost no one has it and its “special”. As long as you feel the time you spent on it was meaningful then the trial isn’t all that important.

For me it was 1, 2, 3, 4, 13, and 14

Already posted but didn’t have a screen shot so I ran it again on my main. Used speed boost on this guy but didn’t on thief and guardian honestly I noticed no difference whatsoever.

We don’t need a healing nerf so the op can keep that for himself.

RTL for the 1000x and magnetic grasp the self roots/stuns are a real pain besides that this fragile little class cant really handle any sort of big nerf.

@KOK
I have seen banners too and no insult to warriors but its not really comparable to having a guardian or ele on the team. I would rather have a dps warrior on the team. Like I conceded the dps is higher than mine but I lose very little specing a more balanced generalist build. All this warrior vs ele stuff doesn’t make much sense to me but I will not under represent my class. Ele can do more better than a warrior (play multiple roles) but warrior can dps and face tank better simple as that. I have no hate for warriors.

Right now the “OMG my dps is so good so much better than yours!” argument is a bunch of bullkitten at the end of the day. It doesn’t even matter. These types of arguments breed big heads and over inflated egos. At the end of the day everyone on my server is on the same kitten team. I drop my ring of fire near my dps warrior do 3 blast finishers give him 9 stacks of might and hope he does well with it.

All this ele bashing is bullkitten too. We don’t have “issues”. Fact is I was shying away from it because I was looking for a class that I could run a balanced build on, and not get crushed, and the rumors it was too hard to play. Eventually I happened upon that tanky post by daphoenix. I said I would give it a try seven days later I was 80 4 days later nearly full pow/vit/tou (one piece cleric all are exotic). I am not bragging my point is I got so in tune with the class I tossed all my effort behind it. If someone like the OP felt that way about warrior then that’s good it means they found the class they wanted to play.

@Rahmorak

Going to correct you quickly. There has been very little discussion over the proper use of the term skill floor and skill ceiling and its not even worth a post but off topic as it is I will respond.

Skill floor would be the lowest possible level of skill needed to accomplish a task ie the higher the skill floor the harder i is to get the simplest things dont. Think of it like level or ratings (forget the skyscraper stuff) 1-10 1 being simplest 10 being the most complex. Warrior starts at one ie the simplest build requires very little skill. The most complex build is maybe a 5 to play and play well. Ele starts at 3 ie the simplest build (for ele) requires marginal skill. The most complex build is maybe an 8 to play and play and play well.

BTW both the skill floor and the skill ceiling are higher for ele. Also your example makes no sense. Sorry its true. Your first definition describes a skill floor as the rating of how good the class is ie its effectiveness the second describes its potential. What I set up is a range both definitions work hand in hand to describe the difficulty of playing a class. Your post talks about 2 different things base effectiveness and skill requirement. Those are 2 separate topics.

to get a better grasp of this look up Tera’s class rating for warrior dps vs tanking.

To simplify this even more its minimum required skill (floor) and maximum allowed skill (ceiling).

KOK.2650:

daphoenix.4283:

I’m leveling my newbie lvl 16 warrior at the moment, and I would have to say that I miss the survivability of my level 80 d/d elementalist. Its just not fun when I can no longer solo 10+ enemy mobs at the same time, champion mobs solo, and all the mass AoE burst I get from D/D. I do however like my single targeting DPS much more, b/c an elementalists does have some rather poor single DPS bursting.

1)I have no idea where are you going to find 10 mob cubing together (not those lesser one that die in 2 hit) to solo. Even when I solo a event, the number of mob scale with number of players there so the maximum I get like is 4 .
2)No one can solo a champion with huge range dmg but EVERYONE can solo a champion that don’t have high range dmg. See the different? Given that rifle warrior has higher single target dmg, they have a much easier time solo a champ than elementalist.
3) While DD elementalist has good AOE dmg, it is nowhere comparable to hundred-blade.
4) the 2things elementalist has over warrior are group defensive buff (that why everyone spec into arcane) and escape tools(good for wvw).

1. In frostgorge sound there is a pack of wolves and dogs to the far north near Jors spawn there are more than 10 and yes I have killed them all at the same time on D/D.

2. While I can say its difficult its far from impossible its just pointless. If you understand how strong RTL is while kiting you realize you can go in hit and move go out of range and heal to full and do it again. Second, I have and have seen other D/D eles solo the champions plus the vets. I am sure other professions can do this but its still possible to solo range.

3. Who cares?100B vs ele dps its apples and oranges. For all the mitigation and healing I do and the stupid amount of utility I have I could care less if 100b hits 10x harder than my best skill.

4. Missed group healing.

Look hate on ele its doesn’t matter at the end of the day the end game potential of a properly played ele dwarves just about every class save engineer. Isn’t that the point though? The skill floor is higher because you can do more its not a contest. I have met many great warriors and I never felt a need to point out how I was better than them. It doesn’t matter do your job play your role and all will be happy.

Look I will put it like this I have completed the tower 3 times Human Asura and Norn (but hes at the shortest height for a Norn). All three times the runs that made there was not a Norn or Charrr insight. I specifically ran to rooms with the lowest numbers and no more than 2 Norns or Charrs or any combo between that.

Honestly no one is hating on your race choice just the design of the tower itself. None of us knew that the camera angles be wonky at times and we would have to learn to blind jump. So its not our fault.

Thorgal.1287:

took me 3 nights in a row but now finally made it…
(and once you did.. it gets easier!)

I can attest to this. First toon took 4 hours. Second took 1 hour. Third 3 tries.

I can say this much the less people the easier it is.

PinCushion.7390:

merrydamn.9423:

Let’s say I’m against a decent engineer on the same level

D/D won’t win that fight. S/D or S/F will fare much better. Depends on what you expect to run into. Maybe take Frost Bow and make his comfy turret haven a living hell?

I find Ele to be (along with Engineer) very bad at adjusting to changing circumstances during combat. If you brought daggers and find out you needed to bring a staff you’re pretty well out of luck. Such is life.

This I disagree with. Ele is the best class for those change in circumstances. If your utilities are defensive or movement in nature your the best class to chase down, lead off targets, or simply run away since no one is going to catch you. Your the healer the cc the dps and from time to time the tank rolled into one your not the best at all these things (may be the best healer actually) but you can be competent at all of them. There is no such thing as an unwinable fight vs a specific class.

Someone talked about the telegraph on earth skills. Churning earth for one is easy to get away from but lightning flash does not kill the cast move to where they rolled to and it will hit all the same.

Fact is you cant win em all but you cant out game someone. I always look at it like this. I am on the fastest class in the game I do decent dps and can heal. Like I said before most fights either I win or I run it may seem cheap but it what I have at my disposal. I do the same thing on my P/D thief high mobility trumps dps because if they cant hit you they cant hurt you.

The important word is “little”. There is enough cc between earth and air alone to make me feel comfy with where cds are at. If it gets too bad you can always take the 20% reduction but I feel it’s unnecessary (though I do use the one for water from time to time). If they were to reduce the cds too much ele would be OP given the number of tools at our disposal. Honestly when you shift attunements often you may hit a cd but most important skills are near the end of their timer already.

to keep it simple.

~=earth
r=water
Mouse 5 (Shoulder 2)=fire
Mouse 3 (Scroll button)=wind
Mouse 4 (Shoulder 1)=heal

The rest is just what ever.

Hmm

1 v 1 as a D/D ele vs just about any class I can sum it up to this. Either I win or I run simple as that. May seem cheap but that is just the way it is. I have enough healing to be back at full health in a second and enough speed and cleanses to out run just about anything. I wont say I win all the time, but be sure that if pushed I will blow a cool down or 2 heal up and come right back.

For those who complain about ele just practice. The stance dance gets to be second nature after a lil while and it’s very rewarding if your willing to get used to your capability to set up your own combos.

In P v E (level 80) I am sitting on about 2500 armor and 16k hp which seems low but with the amount of healing I can put out and the uncanny ability to kite I feel pretty much like a tank. 5 pieces of Pow/Vit/Tough and 1 cleric (I didn’t like where my heals were coming in at without it) all exotic.

At the end of the day I feel versatile enough to be a good support to my team. With the exception of the first 10 levels ele has been the easiest class for me to level and the best overall endgame. It’s a good feeling to know that you can bring something to the team beside dps. There is a lot of really good dps players out there but being able to keep them up cc mobs etc. makes runs that much smoother.

There are still issues. Sometimes RTL on uneven surfaces self roots me the same issue with magnetic grasp. I still feel squishy vs some crit builds (however arcane shield and other tools help with this a lot). Despite the minuses over all ele is one of the best classes for multitasking and I feel over all it has the most potential. First time I soloed a champoin plus his vets I realized that the rumors were true ele can be good. If you play it right.

TL;DR

Ele is a good class just got to give it time.

RRAAAAAWWWRRRR

Yeah made it took a few hours but you know I never almost threw my keyboard at a wall. I was calm the whole time. I never wished that norn and charr toons at max height would just fall. Nope not me was calm the whole time.

I ran AC last night and one kid was having a fit in chat got pissed that I didn’t keep up with him on one part. Funny thing was when we got to last boss of route 2 I saw him die 3 times. Players have these huge issues with speed run but at the end of the day are usually bad. Don’t worry about getting kicked start your own party and relax. The best parties their is barely any chatting follow the leader kill than move on.

offence.4726:

@TheGuy actually it requires massive skill , to get in “fail” an ambush and getting out of it from 1-2-5 people. Thief is fine as is if you can play him your can do amazing things if not you will die in the opener to most out there.

“Massive skill” really? To pop 2 skills cast C&D as you steal so they never see it coming and hit one more button and likely win. If you happen to fail switch to short bow, and port away, or go stealth, and walk away, or just HS til the target dies. That’s not really complex.

And your’e right most thieves pay for it big when they fail but, how often can you fail this? Either the other person has split second reflexes or they don’t that simple either way the thief started out at an advantage. Honestly the class with the highest raw burst should not have combat stealth but without it every other builds falls apart. Its not skill not by a long shot. Its easy to do and man do it easily. Like I said I usually win. Even when I’m on ele I have enough Toughness to survive the first part of the burst but there shouldn’t be a first part that hits that hard from stealth.

Once again all this doesn’t matter there isn’t much that can be done. We all have to accept that every once in a while a thief will burst you down and you wont have a chance that’s about it.

Simple truth is if you play anything else you need to be a better player than the mechanics of the simplest build on the most burst proficient class.

BTW I do play a thief and the amount of times I have dropped a group using stealth mechanics alone is stupid. No its not a brag its the truth. Its not hard on any thief build to hit and never get hit. The only saving grace is that the rest aren’t burst.

MarkedOne.1309:

TheGuy.3568:

TL:DR just read it :-)

What a bunch of BS. Like the smarter person above you said, very good players know that thieves are not OP and can counter them easily.
Seems like you cant… well I will give you a friendly advice mate. So, here it goes: l2p.

You do realize I said I consistently beat Backstabbers right? L2P lol learn to read. If you took the time to read you would realize that I say D/D thief burst cant be nerfed and the only real alternative is to deal with it. Read my post history see how often I say D/D is not only beatable but easily so. That doesn’t change the fact that any class with an insta-gib should not be in the game period. My backstabber friend the truth may hurt but its still the truth. Its a gimmick, requires next to no skill, and is utterly useless anywhere else.

Lets just phrase it as it is. Some of the builds in the class with the highest burst also has stealth for days. There are rendering issues with stealth and on top of all that they have access to the best gap closer in the game which also hits pretty hard. The game over all is balanced around DPS and the few pure tank builds that there are are just that since they cant kill a fly.

Thieves claim eSport but rarely play any other class or builds for that matter.

Lets make this very clear and lets be honest insta-gib back stab thief requires little to no skill. Even if you argue sport fact is the person who even survives half your burst has already shown skill more. Now you can argue for days that the other person had “Time” but its a second at most.

We can play this kitten game all day. 1-shot or 3-shot whatever thieves have the advantage. Only class I can consistently drop a backstabber on is P/D and that’s because I have the same access to stealth. So I wont complain.

Lets just be honest it doenst require all that much skill and its not really all that much glass.

I know other thieves feel its fine but looking from the outside in it really isn’t but I doubt anything will change. If you nerf it thieves with daggers simply wont win and if you don’t the QQ will continue. I say let the status quo stand. I don’t think Anet has a choice. I say give up these threads and realize your going to have to work around it or at best give up on one v one if the thief got the drop on you.

TL:DR just read it :-)

The real problem is that it bugs and folks don’t really want to run it.

Yeah I have done it but I don’t see the point. It takes way too long and if your farming Karma or something like that then there are better ways to go about it.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

NO SCALING DOWN!! Get in a kittening group like your supposed to and help us out! I’m sick of this “Just solo it!” kitten. Also, there no need to make it easier for solo as it will just make everyone able to solo the game and make the community worse.

The community is fine. The problem is no one wants to run PvP and outside the elder dragons a lot of PvE just doesn’t get done. Half the servers have no temples up for this very reason and it is stupid. Scaling down is about the only saving grace PvE has at the moment as it allows players to get through it without all the hassle of looking for a group where there simply isn’t any one to group with. You can’t force other players to party or help out sometimes you just have to do it solo. Why make that more of a pain in the kitten ?

I really like this build. Honestly I love it. I all but abandoned my thief leveled my ele over the week and play it main D/D. It reminds me of my favorite class every rush mage from shin megami tensei. So my thanks go out.

Sam problem persistent kick

code=3032:1002:3:4350:101

I don’t have the authenticator still happening like clock work and there are others. If you do have it I read removing it might stop the issue, but not everyone has it so there is likely a bigger bug here.

I have been getting that same error too. I am not sure what the issue is but I would be appreciative to have it resolved.

Honestly its a bad update time this late because it inconveniences the vast majority of us. I am not really mad. I just don’t understand it. They set the time table themselves. They could have easily said were having issues or its going to be a little late. We accept that we wouldn’t have a choice and it would help with the QQ. In the long run its not some big disservice but it is a little rude. Honestly if it were me I would delay the thing til 12noon PST tomorrow and let everyone go to bed. It will come out when it comes out so rest if you need to its not going anywhere.

shaolin.9716:

Such bad reasoning. Can’t kill a bunker 1v1. Now can’t kill a thief 1v1 either. Tell me what fun is left for the other builds out there? As soon as you’re caught alone you’re dead meat unless you play a bunker or a thief? And then have to run back to your team with your tail between your legs like a beaten dog?

Hmm well wouldn’t that be the players fault? There re many builds that counter bunker with out being burst themselves and the vast majority of thief builds are susceptible to dots. Since I know both those can be beat one on one I have to question if a player chooses to run wouldn’t that be their own lack of skill at play. And running to your allies is not a bad thing. Smart players realize the situation getting support is never a bad idea as your failure to survive effects the whole team.

The Boz.2038:

TheGuy.3568:

Would you care to elaborate?

I tried, forum ate my long reply.
Basically, what you said about “the same thing can be said about anything else” is true and irrelevant.
Let’s take a simple scenario of three values, 2, 2 and 4. These values enter combat by rolling a six-sided die, adding the result to their own value, and comparing which side has the greater total. Ties are rerolled.
2v2 is a balanced match up, because each has the same chance of rolling a higher number than the other.
2v4 is not a balanced match up, and it should really be obvious to anyone that this is so. Can 2 win against 4? Sure. So 4 can, in fact, be countered. Are the odds so heavily in favor of 4? Certainly. So the fact that 4 can be countered does not automatically imply that 4 is balanced.
Do you understand now?

Well this scenario would indicate that every player has an equal chance at rolling a high number. More rolls more likely to win. Arena are random I guess but players aren’t the numbers are not random they are rather static. Good PvP players would be considered rather consistent" High Rollers".

The problem is probability does not relate well to this scenario. 4v4 could be considered completely unfair if 4 skilled pvp player went against 4 unskilled pvp players. Counter builds on the other hand would work more like a raw number evaluation between the 2 parties. Assuming that their is ceteris paribus builds would be the only real variable. Builds used to counter other builds will role absolutely dominate the builds they are designed to counter. Counters rather builds are the great equalizer in this argument player skill variations are nearly immeasurable but builds & counter-builds are rather easy to measure.

In the long run it still doesn’t matter good players are still more likely to dominate in PvP because skill is so heavily weighted. There is an argument that skill goes all the way back (like your first post said) to character creation. If by chance a player found the class that perfectly housed the skills they wanted with the proper cool downs range and animations for them. If the aforementioned player happens to have skill in building builds the result may have been determined fro the start. However, none of this matters there are too many variable and you can still argue that balance should be made around the lowest common denominator. We all push keys and make things happen in a virtual world ie players’ individual skill. Since that likely wont happen the only thing we can count on are builds and counter builds.

I do understand.

but your first post stated. “Being counterable doesn’t mean you’re balanced; it just means that somebody out that can, in certain circumstances, sometimes kill you.”

What I am explaining is that true balance is not feasible and never was. The closest thing we have is the build and its counter. This is also the TL:DR.