Guild Wars 2

Grouch,

I have come to the conclusion that this recommended change was simply not well thought out. This is a nerf to all builds, and it is completely unnecessary to nerf all builds in this manner.

Here are the kinds of situations this change will negatively impact w/3 clone out:

1. Phantasmal Retreat – no longer creates a clone meat shield to soak the attack you are about to get
2. Thief jumps you – you no longer can dodge+daze
3. Someone is rezzing/stomping – you no longer can dodge+daze
4. You won’t be able to replace that iWarden that’s standing there and doing nothing with a useful Beserker or iSwordsman
5. Clones are 1000m away standing and doing nothing while you are getting attacked – you won’t be able to summon more clones to help

This idea will hurt all mesmer builds overall, and, to put it mildly, Mesmers aren’t all over the meta right now as it is.

This idea was not well thought out, and that’s the nicest thing I can say about it.

icewyrm.5038:

Thedenofsin.7340:

1) Reduces Mesmer Team Support:
Phantasm builds (which by the way do not put out enough damage in the current state of the game)

In comparison to what?

It’s a parenthetical comment – not going to derail the thread.

Joseph.7213:

I don’t play mesmer, but anything that discourages shatter mesmer play and encourages condi-mesmer is bad. I don’t want another condi-meta.

The proposed Deceptive Evasion change discourages all Mesmer play, including shatter mesmer.

The side-effects to that change have very bad effects on mesmers overall including shatter specs. It makes all builds less effective.

Like I said, if clone-death builds are the problem, simply change the mechanics so the on-death effects don’t proc on clone replacement. Much better solution and doesn’t have all the negative side-effects.

The real reason why PU condition mesmers are so powerful in WvW is really due to Prismatic Understanding. It’s just taken the players several months to get used to it.

This is addressed to the dev on the left during Ready-Up:

Let’s assume 30hps is the difference between Healing Signet and Healing Surge. However, Healing Signet is not skillful play, and there is no skillful counterplay.

Healing Surge can be interrupted and you can poison the heal. You cannot interrupt Healing Signet and, unless you plan on giving all professions access to 100% poison uptime, you cannot poison Healing Signet.

1) Reduces Mesmer Team Support

This change will also adversely affect all mesmer specs that rely on clones. Many times I need to interrupt a resurrect or stomp, so I will dodge into an opponent and Daze (Shatter 3). If I have 3 clones out currently, I will not be able to do this. This is bad.

2) Reduces Mesmer Survivability

Additionally, if I have a thief backstabbing me, I will be unable to dodge+Daze if I already have 3 clones out. Again, this is bad. Someone who doesn’t play a mesmer may not realize how significant this is, but it’s common for a mesmer to be some distance from his clones. A single Blink can put a mesmer 1200m from his clones.

3) Does not help Phantasm builds

Phantasm builds (which by the way do not put out enough damage in the current state of the game) do not benefit from this change because they won’t use this trait.

4) Discourages Build Diversity

Mesmers right now have no build diversity in the meta, still playing a Shatter spec. Clone-death builds are the only bunker build available to Mesmers at the moment, and it sacrifices nearly all of its team support in exchange. This change will effectively nullify that build. If you feel clone-death builds are too powerful, don’t have the effects proc when clones are replaced, only when actually killed.

For the past year, mesmers and elementalists have been kept out of the meta. This is due to nerfs to these classes as well as the buffs given to thieves. The recent changes brought down thieves a little, but they still retain their slot as alpha predator for roaming/spike damage.

Mesmers and elementalists can’t compete with that role. In the current meta, as highlighted by recent high-end pvp games, thieves basically just hunt down and kill their mesmer opponents with impunity. Elementalists simply cannot compete.

Are you planning on making changes to rectify this alpha predator situation? It’s been over a year since we’ve seen mesmers and/or elementalists in competitive play.

and please tell us you are nerfing Lyssa runes.

LAST BIG QUESTION:

Did you implement the fix that allows buildings/structures to take condition damage??

Did you guys fix the broken Mesmer Warden (focus #5) so that he doesn’t randomly just do nothing?

JonPeters.5630:

Reducing the passive is easy to do but we will not do it without solving the other problem. Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have.

Jon

Jon, why have you balanced the entire warrior profession around a single heal?

A while back, I believe it was John who said they were looking into completely reworking the Mesmer utility, Mimic.

What progress have they made to that end?

A while back, I believe John said they were looking into making changes to the Mesmer scepter. What kind of changes have they considered? What is their current thinking?

JETWING.2759:

I think that all here already knows that Healing Signet is
“few” strong.
As Jon said, we need ideas, ideas, give suggestions about passive and active.

Where did Jon say he needed ideas?

Atherakhia.4086:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Why not reduce the Passive amount by ‘X’ amount. Then increase the Active amount to ‘X’ amount dependent on either A: the warriors Adrenaline level or B: the amount of conditions on the warrior at the time of Active trigger.?

Reduce the Passive by 50%, Increase the Active by 100%
Passive: 196
Active: 6,550

Of course that is with zero gear, zero traits and such. It says SO much about this heal that people don’t even want to use the active part that is HOW broken the passive is.

do you realize how insanely overpowered the heal you just made is? A 6.5k heal on a 16 second cooldown?

That’s only slightly more powerful than the way it is currently. The biggest difference would be that you could interrupt the healing.

My recommendation is mesmer

Mesmer: On-demand three-way action – and a spare set of hands to hold the handycam.

http://poll.pollcode.com/69148156

I created an inpromptu poll, asking the PvP community if they would ever be willing to pay a monthly fee to play GW2.

Justin ODell.9517:

You do know we have multiple teams working on all aspects of the game concurrently, right? You can’t compare the output of one team to the sum of all output from every other team.

Justin is right (and he’s a decent enough fella, based upon his forum etiquette). It’s unfair to compare the output of one team to the cumulative output from every other team.

However, it is fair to ask why there are so many teams working PvE content and only 1 team working PvP content.

I’d like to thank all the guys out there that could make this possible.

Namely me, my clone, my other clone, and my other other clone that is holding the handi-cam.

:-)

Pets and AoE damage in GW2 are oil and water. No matter the combination, it doesn’t seem to work well.

In PVE pets die to quickly in dungeons and the like due to AoE mechanics.

In WvW they melt in zergs (exception: zerg of pet classes) due to AoE
In WvW solo encounters, pets are extremely formidable due to the lack of AoE

In PvP, they are very strong and, while they do melt in AoE situations, they can oftentimes occupy an ‘aoe cap’ slot, preventing actual players from taking damage.

What can be done to resolve this such that pets are more balanced in the game?

A couple of thoughts:

[global] Damaging a pet is not counted toward the AoE cap.
[PvE] Reduce pet damage due to AoE by LARGE (e.g. 75)

Other ideas?

I have not played engineer and cannot comment on using it. However I have encountered engineers with AED and can state, quite definitively, it completely turns a fight around when it kicks in. Every time I’ve had AED kick in against me I’ve either died or had to disengage and completely leave the fight.

JonPeters.5630:

I was simply stating that the problem is we are not going to address the issues that the passive sustain is creating until we make the active use have a place in combat so even if it is not THE PROBLEM, it is the blocking issue.

Jon

Hello Jon,

I read the replies in this thread, including yours, and I’m concerned about several things.

First, I don’t view the Healing Signet is the problem, but a root cause of the problem. The PROBLEM is warriors are too powerful in sPvP, so much so that every team is required to run with at least 1 warrior, and double warrior teams are incredibly strong.

There are 5 slots on a team. Guardians are a “must-have” for 1 slot (that is a different topic), and warriors are a “must-have” for 1-2 slots, leaving only 2-3 slots left for the remaining 6 professions.

In short, the PROBLEM is warriors are so imbalanced, and have been now for 4 months, that they are keeping professions out of the meta.

By making one class so powerful that the meta requires 1-2 per team, you are indirectly forcing 1-2 professions out of the meta.

Now I understand the desire for a balanced solution to the problem. However it does not make sense to me to keep warriors in their current overpowered position even longer simply because a solution may run the risk of making warriors somewhat underpowered.

What is the risk/reward?

OPTION 1: Working on a more balanced solution

Reward: The warrior fix makes warriors more balanced and no longer a requirement on teams. Other professions can be mixed into the meta again.

Risk: The more time spent working on trying to balance the problem, the longer the problem persists, the fewer professions get to be played competitively and you run the risk of fewer people playing the game.

Risk: The warrior ‘fix’ is insuffient, leaving warriors in their current state even longer and keeping professions out of the meta even longer.

OPTION 2: Not waiting for the ‘optimal’ solution and putting out a fix sooner rather than later.

Reward: Will result in warriors no longer dominating the meta.

Risk: Makes warriors underpowered, pushing them out of the meta. This would result in upsetting people who play warrior. Would also allow 1-2 professions back into the meta.

At the end, it simply makes more sense to push a fix out sooner and run the risk of underpowering warriors (which you can later fix). The worst that would happen is you end up having a new meta with 1-2 new professions in the team that were not there previously.
If you wait and try to shoot for the balanced solution, the worst that could happen is you don’t really end up changing anything.

BobbyStein.2315:

Azure Prower.8701:

… onto the compost heap.

Are we going to get SAB returning shortly after?

Because lets be honest. This is the only living world update the majority of people enjoyed.

Actually, we have metrics on every LW release. While SAB was indeed successful in terms of participation, so were the other releases (Scarlet ones included). I understand that forum feedback can color perception on which releases were the most popular/best received/most enjoyed but opinions on this are largely anecdotal. Please keep that in mind.

Now to your question: will we see a return of SAB? That’s not for me to say, but if it were to come back, what would people like to see from it? Harder/easier content? New world? More/no Moto story?
.

Hi!

I’m going to be very blunt.
I loved the original SAB because it was nostalgic. It was somewhat challenging, but brief, and left out the less desirable aspects of 8-bit gaming (high difficulty, long levels, lots of grinding, etc).

I never even finished infantile mode of SAB2. Why? Because it added all the things about 8-bit gaming that I never wanted to remember.

As far as Moto goes – I really don’t care about his story.

OP, could you please edit the title to include [PVE] and [WvW]?

Stomping is part of the gameplay in those game modes as well. Thanks.

Linky to new forums

Be mindful of scope. It takes design, development and testing time in order to make a new feature or revise an old one. Keep scope/work/time/resources in mind when you make your suggestions.

Can you clarify? To me, this sounds like the users should have a knowledge of what resources the development teams has at their disposal, which we do not. We also have no idea what the development plans/schedules are for GW2.

oZii.2864:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Tim.6450:

interesting suggestion, but what if your adrenaline is full?

Still heals. The idea is that the heal could stay where it is, provided the warrior is whacking away at people, and finishers (since they drain adrenaline) would not heal. That prevents the 3 second skullcrack == 1200+heal and similar things.

• It also means that warriors need to think more carefully about when to disengage as opposed to waiting until he/she is super-low on hp then boogie out.

• An interesting side-effect could be that multi-hit attacks (like a full Hundred Blades) could result in a burst heal.

• It also means that dodges, stuns and interrupts and LOS would counter the passive healing

I think reducing the base heal and having it scale well with +healing would work as well. However, I still think there needs to be more counterplay to the heal. And no, I don’t consider poison to be counterplay to HS.

I think that 400hp/sec healing should be attainable through either sacrifice (i.e. healing gear) or through some concerted effort (e.g. continually doling out damage).

Sounds like you want the signet to be the new guardian heal but always on. I think your suggestion makes it that nobody would use it.

That was simply a suggestion. Don’t get hung up on a solution, just the problem. For the sake of clarity, the suggestion I offered implied the signet would still have an active component as well.

Tim.6450:

interesting suggestion, but what if your adrenaline is full?

Still heals. The idea is that the heal could stay where it is, provided the warrior is whacking away at people, and finishers (since they drain adrenaline) would not heal. That prevents the 3 second skullcrack == 1200+heal and similar things.

• It also means that warriors need to think more carefully about when to disengage as opposed to waiting until he/she is super-low on hp then boogie out.

• An interesting side-effect could be that multi-hit attacks (like a full Hundred Blades) could result in a burst heal.

• It also means that dodges, stuns and interrupts and LOS would counter the passive healing

I think reducing the base heal and having it scale well with +healing would work as well. However, I still think there needs to be more counterplay to the heal. And no, I don’t consider poison to be counterplay to HS.

I think that 400hp/sec healing should be attainable through either sacrifice (i.e. healing gear) or through some concerted effort (e.g. continually doling out damage).

Enzo Kensei.9850:

Yes… not broken at all

Oh don’t worry. Don’t you remember? They told us like 4 or 5 months ago they were working on it.

At first I thought you were trolling everyone – now I realize you are serious.

Phantom, please stop. You have no idea what you are talking about. These statements are foolish and utterly preposterous!

You are claiming NCSoft’s stock value is directly tied to ascended gear. That’s completely ludicrous.

Zone.1275:

That’s too literal of an interpretation. Often poems are symbolic.

Oh, so it’s a symbol?

So you’re saying we’re going to have to fight this guy?

Oh my.

This is my take on it:

Let’s put this into perspective:

Tick tock goes the clock
It’s almost time for time to stop
Something you all must understand
Your world is built on fog and sand

You’re out of time, your jig is done
It’s time for Scarlet to have her fun
She has some hard lessons to teach
To the people of Divinity’s Reach

So mark the date in permanent ink
The hour is later than you think
On the twentieth day she’ll start her games
And warm her hands over Kryta’s flames!

That was the poem which accompanied the pocket watch ArenaNet’s marketing team sent out for Clockwork Chaos.

What was the result of that? No fog, no sand and Kryta did not burn. Just a bunch of clockwork madness.

Based upon this prior history, I’m going to assume the next menace will come up from the ground and we’ll have to fight it. Tyria will not burn, no dragon is going to suddenly pop up (not right away at least), and we’ll probably have to fight more minions.

meh.

This is what I thought of:

Vol.7601:

zamalek.2154:

Vol.7601:

tldr: primordus

Konig corrected me on the same assumption. tldr; not primordus.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

We’ve already got Scott mentioning months ago that Scarlet’s story isn’t tied to the dragons. Toss Primordial hopes out of your head.

the interview was with TowerTalk, I think this one. Edit2: Yes, that interview and it’s near the end (naturally). He basically says they have a dragon plot for every couple years, and between them we’ll experience the more ‘personal stories’ like Kasmeer, Marjory, and Scarlet as well as things linked to dragons but not them themselves like Dragon Bash (and I would imagine, Tequatl Rising – the interview being before TR).

Well in that case, I guess I’m proud for being responsible for shattering the hopes of thousands of players (and getting them to hate Anet in the process).

That being said, remember this?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fscarletbriar%2Fdragons

Either that’s one incredibly talented amateur VA or Scott is lying to us all!

Remember what? File not found.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Forum changes are “still in progress”. No idea when it’ll be complete. We’ll probably also see some existing sub-forums get modified.

How hard is that to do?

https://www.phpbb.com/support/documentation/3.0/images/quick_start_guide/creating_forums.png

Open the forum management page
Selected Add forum
Name forum
Select Parent Forum

The solution is easy:

1) AI and pets are all exempt from AoE caps
2) All players are set to a larger size in PvP (say, human-size)
3) All pets are set to a smaller size in PvP (say 50% human-size)

The forums are being restructured, yet I still do not see the Profession balance sub-forum.

Where is it?

imsoenthused.1634:

I guess it depends on why you all play games. Achiever style gamers play to be/have the best. If it has higher level stats, it’s required. If you don’t play that way, fine, but it doesn’t make it any less “required” for all the people who are.

Yes, and achievers have to understand that they have to grind to get the best of the best. If the grind wasn’t there, then everyone would have all the same stuff and the achievers would not be able to really differentiate themselves from others.

The manifesto didn’t say, “We’re going to make it so the casual gamer can have everything in the game and run content at the highest difficulty settings”.

If you want to push and run the highest fractcals, have all the rare/unique items, and squeeze every last bit of competitive advantage in WvW, then you’re going to grind.

However, if you just want to run normal fractals, get the occasional neat trinket/skin, and play WvW at a normal level, then you don’t have to grind.

Kevan.8912:

@tobias: never intended to insult nobody here. and..“seriously” i can’t find a single line where i insulted anybody. maybe rude or gruff is a proper definition. sorry if you felt insulted by anything.
really really hope that what we write has an influence on the sancta sanctorum, but reason says there is no way of changing the way things go. it’s just a time for bitterness.

TooBz.3065:

Vayne,

There was something in between exotics and legendaries.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge/Equipment

People just weren’t satisfied with purely cosmetic progression.

i loved that skins T.T i worked for it. really enjoyed it. because it was a “free choice”.
the feeling that doing it or just ignoring that event/skin/etc doesn’t give any little impact on combat.

Thedenofsin.7340:

If you want to get that really cool skin, or be the best in Fractals or dominate WvW, then you’re going to have to grind for it. However, that’s not what the manifesto is saying. The manifesto is saying that you don’t have to grind to have fun; you don’t have to grind to experience any of the game content……..

However, that is palpably different than content that is simply unavailable to you unless you grind.

true…part of it.
still, the “dominate WvW or be best in fractals” part is, for me and many others, a “game content”.

The problem isn’t in the manifesto then – the problem is that you have misinterpreted it.
The manifesto is referring playing WvW and running Fractals, not being the #1 in Gold Leage WvW or running level 50 Fractals.

imsoenthused.1634:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mmm, no.

Ascended weapons aren’t required for me to fight the Shatterer. I am not wrong on this.

If they make a single bit of difference in how much damage you do, they are no longer prestige items, they are required. Failure to accept the truth doesn’t make it any less true.

Saying you aren’t required to have the highest tier item in the game is like arguing that you don’t have to bother leveling to the cap. The word that sums that up is “stupid”.

If it’s so true and obvious that ascended gear is required, then site some examples.
Prove it.

imsoenthused.1634:

Thedenofsin.7340:

The operative word here is ‘force’. There is no content in this game where you are forced to get on that grind treadmill. You can hit level 80, buy some rare/exotic gear, and tackle any content in the game. That’s the point.

If you want to get that really cool skin, or be the best in Fractals or dominate WvW, then you’re going to have to grind for it. However, that’s not what the manifesto is saying. The manifesto is saying that you don’t have to grind to have fun; you don’t have to grind to experience any of the game content.

This is different than, say, World of Warcraft where you have to grind out your Tier 314,230,118 level Warrior armor and weapons in order to be able to go raid Bahamut’s Belly Button (25 man).

The skin rewards and backpacks and minipets and ascended gear – none of that is necessary to enjoy the game content.

However, if you want those cool things or those rare things or the best items or to be the best in WvW, then, yes, they are available, but they come at a cost. That cost is a grind. However, that is palpably different than content that is simply unavailable to you unless you grind.

The moment you put a stat difference on it, it becomes required. You can argue about that all you want, but you will be wrong.

No, you’re wrong and missing the point. You do not need ascended gear to play the game.
period.

My toons collectively have, I think, 3 pieces of ascended gear and they can handle any content in the game.

If you want to argue it is required, then prove it. Site one example where ascended gear is mandatory to play the game content. Not be the best at it or dominate it, but just play it through and complete it.

From the manifesto:

Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.

The operative word here is ‘force’. There is no content in this game where you are forced to get on that grind treadmill. You can hit level 80, buy some rare/exotic gear, and tackle any content in the game. That’s the point.

If you want to get that really cool skin, or be the best in Fractals or dominate WvW, then you’re going to have to grind for it. However, that’s not what the manifesto is saying. The manifesto is saying that you don’t have to grind to have fun; you don’t have to grind to experience any of the game content.

This is different than, say, World of Warcraft where you have to grind out your Tier 314,230,118 level Warrior armor and weapons in order to be able to go raid Bahamut’s Belly Button (25 man).

The skin rewards and backpacks and minipets and ascended gear – none of that is necessary to enjoy the game content.

However, if you want those cool things or those rare things or the best items or to be the best in WvW, then, yes, they are available, but they come at a cost. That cost is a grind. However, that is palpably different than content that is simply unavailable to you unless you grind.

I think Scarlet is more akin to the “Viral Agent Smith” of the Neo and Architect struggle (i.e. Tyrians and dragons).

because warriors need more buffs…

mini.6018:

No.You actually can’t.But you just keep doing it regardless even if it makes absolutely no sense even after you were explained several times.We all know people like that irl.

…and that’s why you aren’t a developer.

Last developer stream when they revealed the Mesmer signet, what did they do? Oh, compared it to the warrior Healing Signet! Paraphrasing the developer comments: “It heals for less than the warrior’s signet, but the heal is more to make up for it”.

Now you can keep arguing that they cannot be compared, even though the developers (you know, the guys who make the game) can and do compare the two, and after it’s been explained to you that they can be compared.

But feel free to continue arguing the contrary. We all know people like that irl…

Now back to the topic. Quite simply, HS is broken. Anyone who says otherwise is either bad, delusional, or mains a warrior (like BurrTheKing and mini, who main warriors)

BurrTheKing.8571:

@Thedenofsin.7340 You cannot directly compare one classes heal to another. Each class has many different mechanics to consider such as armor, health, other skills, etc. It’s apples to oranges because Mesmers are very different than Warriors. Warriors have no clones or access to a low CD invulnerability or teleports, they have to just soak up the punishment.

Yes you can compare the heals. The factors you mention are not relevant (you also failed to mention warriors have access to near-perma swiftness, shield blocks, several types of charges/sprints, more hp and more armor).

There are several passive heals in this game, and NONE of them compare to Healing Signet in terms of its gross healing power. It’s simply broken. In fact, all the other passive heals require some form of active play to receive that heal (even Vampirism requires you to take damage).

What is relevant is how much healing that signet doles out compared to the work required to maintain it.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I don’t understand how pressing a key to heal is considered “skillful” compared to having a passive skill that is made almost worthless but frequent poison application.

No one is arguing pressing a heal as “skillful”. Passive healing is 100% skill*less*. With an active heal with a cooldown, you can interrupt it or coordinate burst while it is on cooldown.
With Healing Signet, you just have to apply massive, continuous damage to get the warrior down to the point where he may pop his heal, and of course hope he just doesn’t run away.

No OP, the problem is Healing Signet. It’s 100% passive and provides too much healing especially combined with the Adrenaline regen. Also, it scales too well.

Look at the Mesmer heal signet – it’s on a longer cooldown, heals for 33% less, hardly scales at all, and requires active action to maintain the passive buff.

If the warrior signet were designed like that, warriors would probably be in a fine place.

Chaotic Storm.2815:

What’s your view on the changes. Personal I raised an eyebrow when suggestions was pretty much scrapped.

Meh – it was a waste of electrons. ANet doesn’t look there for ideas. You might as well write a letter to /dev/null.