Guild Wars 2

Stand The Wall.6987:

if skills could target more people, then zerging could be punished more, thus do you think zergs would dissipate over time or would people be unwilling to adapt to the change? What about for a completely different game?

Removing the AOE’s cap is a thing, but clearly won’t be enough for different reasons :

• Skill-lag usually happens even before the zerg is at range, so it’ll be hard to channel a skill without being crushed first in a open-field battle.
• Zergs will still spontaneously be the main way of playing, because the drawback would only occur when there’re playing enemies, not against objectives.
• The buff and bunker fashion still mitigate strongly the effect of AoE skills. There’d be a need for lots of AoE’s to really be an annoyance.

As far as I’m concerned, I stand for a hard option to cut zergs, i.e. an “overcrowded” debuff, that’d strongly nerf stats, damage, defense, speed…

There’s also the issue of most zerglings leaving the game because it’s no as easy as should be to get bags… Well… I’m all for letting them go, have a healthier gameplay, and get fresh healthy players. I’m not sure ANet can afford such a cut, on the other hand.

Tiny Doom.4380:

If you want to look at the mechanics rather than the psychology, GW2 is designed from the ground up to encourage players to gather in very large groups. The entire open-world PvE set-up works like that, from Orr through to Heart of Thorns. WvW is a PvE offshoot that follows the same design principles.

That is true. The design, or mechanics, is roughly to just smash whatever is coloured red on the screen.

Tiny Doom.4380:

So overcomplicating it. Players zerg because they enjoy it. That’s been self-evident from conversation in the zergs for years. Players who don’t enjoy it either don’t zerg or don’t speak – or they come to a forum outside the game, like this one, and complain.

That’s oversimplifying. Why do people enjoy zergs ? Because it works. Because they just need to run and spam 1, while laughing or trolling on the chat or TS, and they’ll get bags and loot. It requires no effort, and it works. So players can enjoy it (some do not, that’s why I’m using “can”).

Now, if zergs were purely 0 use, and even worse, if they were a turndown (because lack of effectivity or dimnished rewards, e.g.), I guess less people would enjoy it.

So, it ends up to what the game mechanics favor as an simple and rewarding (hence enjoyable) way of playing. I agree : currently, it’s zergs. I’m not against that. I’m only sad there’s less and less space for other ways to enjoy the game.

It probably does theoretically. Now, if I think deeper about your thieves friends turning livid because they’d have to chose, I’d rather see things that way : having to choose would strongly refrain the power creep. As choices would have te be made, there wouldn’t be an obvious good choice with synergies which would eventually turn into the build every thief (for your example) runs. Instead, it may allow other builds to rise and shine. Anyway, we’re getting to far from original topic.

I understand better your idea now. I’ve got mixed feeling about it, yet I still can’t really understand why.

Pinko.2076:

Players zerg because the defensive buffs over the years DEMAND players zerg to take objectives. This is the side effect of making it easier for smaller numbers to defend things, it mandates that you need larger numbers to take things.

For the first couple years I ran in smaller groups and was consistently able to break into keeps and towers to force things. That just isn’t possible now, and if we run into a fortified wall with just one dedicated guy with siege, it isn’t worth 1hour to fight 1 guy and break in.

Defensive buffs are dumb, remove fortified walls, bring back old arrow cart damage, make it all paper forever.

That’s an interesting problem, and it seems to be one of WvW huge problem. The point of WvW is take and hold objectives, so it requires such a balance in mechanics that

1. Defenders will not be totally useless.
2. Attackers won’t feel like an upgraded tower or keep is beyond their reach.

In the current status of WvW, we’re inside a vicious circle. Indeed, siege weapons have been buffed so that few defenders can hold an objective against a zerg for enough time for reinforcements to come. This isn’t even properly working because of sight blocking, and death traps walls…
On the other hand, attackers are only required to do damage (to walls, gates, lord) and to bear defense if they want to take an objective.

Both of these clearly incitate the zerg-tactics. So maybe some thoughts about other mechanics are required it. Either put new mechanics that’d be more destined to small-scale or roaming players, alongside current system, or simply remove the need to deal any damage to structure when taking objectives.

Some ideas I saw here and there :

• Dolly bombers launched from camps
• Bring back that siege commander with his own siege as the only way to open a tower/gate
• Hire henchmens in camps or towers to attack an objective, they’d be the only ones able to damage walls or gates
• Infiltration kit allowing sneaky classes (thieves or mesmers) to get inside.

After all, if players are only supposed to fight players, then NPC’s are required to fight “environmental” things.

I’m not really for this, because new set of skill (including weapon), is supposed to belong to the elite flavour, so it sounds more like an awkward suggestion.

Anyway, on that matter, I also have a suggestion : make vanilla an elite spec. In the very beginning, each trait was linked to a stat. Each trait but one ! One that was “stat specific profession”. For example, mesmer had illusions, ele had arcana, guardian had virtues etc.

So my suggestion is to revamp those trait lines, buff them and flavor them more, and make them work as an elite spec : only third line, so impossible to have them with current elite specs.

Dawdler.8521:

There is absolutely no way to design fun 1v1 combat that doesnt mean 2v1 is always the stronger choice.

Ergo zergs.

Because human brain stuff 101.

Maybe for 2v1, but a strong “overcrowded” debuff has been asked for ages to fight against blobs. That may not solve other problems pointed in this thread, but it surely would help.

Zohane.7208:

ThomasC.1056:

That’s a really simple counting task.

Just imagine a set of each and every possible builds :

• Now, just keep the “what works” subset (i.e. remove absurd things like DPS skills with condis stats).
• Now, keep the “What’s useful” subsubset ; because, unfortunately, in open PvE, you mostly need DPS…
• Now, check whether the builds in that subsubset are roughly as effective as each other, or one of those shines so bright in effectiveness that any other seems useless. This subsubsubset is now called “Meta”
• Now, in that subsubsubset, look for builds that also belong to the build set labeled “What I like to play”.

At this moment, are you left with that many options ?

If you feel the need to run the meta builds then you’re usually not left with many choices – technically meta is the best build for a given class/role so you should only be left with one build in that case. This is always true.

If, however, you’re not concerned with meta and are prepared for things to take a little longer, there’s a huge number of viable builds. Will they be good enough for everything? No of course not; for highest levels of play you will need meta but for anything else, your favourite build plus skill should be enough to let you proceed and hopefully have an enjoyable experience.

That may be true, but it’s too optimistic.
Of course, the meta set is a subset of viable. Issue is, with the current setup of both skills and game modes, there’s such an overwhelming gap between meta and viable that it gets frustrating. To be honest, I made all my characters with builds that I enjoy, but are sub-optimal because I truly don’t want to play something that doesn’t fit with my playstyle. Yet, in WvW or in other game modes, I truly feel like “Meh… I’m taking all the hard way when it’s actually that easy”.

Anyway, maybe meta is a world that shouldn’t be used that easy. For example, I consider that lots of classes have one potent pure damage build, and one potent condi build, so there’s not just one meta.

So, if I ask my question with a better wording, I’d ask : “Within the [i]”what works"[/i] subset, how many builds are there that both belong to the “What I like” set, and aren’t totally shadowed by optimal builds ?"

That’s a really simple counting task.

Just imagine a set of each and every possible builds :

• Now, just keep the “what works” subset (i.e. remove absurd things like DPS skills with condis stats).
• Now, keep the “What’s useful” subsubset ; because, unfortunately, in open PvE, you mostly need DPS…
• Now, check whether the builds in that subsubset are roughly as effective as each other, or one of those shines so bright in effectiveness that any other seems useless. This subsubsubset is now called “Meta”
• Now, in that subsubsubset, look for builds that also belong to the build set labeled “What I like to play”.

At this moment, are you left with that many options ?

HoT was announced in january 2015 more or less at the same time than last LS2’s episode was released. Considering we’re still in episode 3 and there’s no sign it’ll be the last one, I’m not sure there’ll be any announcement any time soon.

I put some dates in another thread of mine. ANet is indeed ultra slow.

Hello folks,

I’ve been browsing some calendars and notes and it worries me a bit. I’m talking here only about the open world PvE. Let’s roll back in past :

• 28/08/2012 : GW2’s launch
• 28/01/2013 : LS1’s 1st episode’s release
• 13/01/2014 : LS1’s last episode’s release

It has actually been quicker than I thought, but I took my time to explore and enjoy GW2’s core content, so I didn’t pay much attention to living story at this time. There already were meta events (Ulgoth i.e.), world bosses, big events (marionette, lion’s arch) were tested. We also got one more map (southsun cove) Then it goes :

• 20/05/2014 : LS2’s first episode release
• january 2015 : LS2’s last episode’s release + HoT announcement.

We’ve been quite busy at this time, with a 1 month = 1 episode pace. There also has been a noticeable traits revamp somewhere there. And 2 maps were added to the game (dry top and silverwastes).
I think at this time, most things were settled for the future of the game : mapwise meta-events (SW being the new prototype), traits system for elites. Then, after ten months of vinewrath farming :

• 23/10/2015 : HoT’s release.

Nice new content : 4 new maps with meta events, 1 new profession and 9 first elite specs, promise of a more dynamic system of getting a class to evolve in the player’s fashion. Mastery points system too. LS1 took 4 months to come, and LS3 took 9.

• 26/07/2016 : LS3’s first episode’s release.

And here comes my first worry : even if I suppose some LS1 things were designed during GW2 developpement, I also guess LS3 was the same relatively to HoT. So why roughly twice the time, whereas mechanics were supposed to be set ? New map maybe ?

We’re now in january 2017, running 3rd episode of LS3, and now, I’m asking : are we on scheudeule ? Supposing we’ll go with 8 episodes (which I honestly doubt. I suppose we’ll get less of them), then last episode should be released roughly next year, meaning a second X’Pac will be launched in the end of 2018 !

So what’s the point of having a whole elite specs system ? It’d actually provide a lot of diversity supposing each class has, say 4-5 choices of elite specs. Now, if it takes 3 years to make a new set of elite specs, then GW2 will be “diverse” in 2026… Moreover, people will switch to the new elite spec just like we don’t see that much vanillia professions. Does that make any sense ?

I’m not telling there hasn’t been work, and there has been lots of improvements and things done in various aspects of the game. I’m here only focusing on PvE, which also implies professions and core mechanics. The pace is far too slow to keep the hype train running. Elite specs and such things are good ideas, but a new set of elite specs should be given every, say, 6 months/1 year, so that the system would work and provide what it’s meant for.

There’re people saying that GW2’s content and graphics and engine and some things of gameplay are getting old. The game is 5 years old so, indeed, there’re old things. But I’m truly not sure it can afford to drag things any longer. Issues is : all those good ideas will need to be used before any GW3 announcement.

I’m hoping there’ll be an announcement for a new X-Pac this year, but if it’s as small as HoT, then I’ll be really worried. Don’t take me wrong : HoT is not small in itself. It’s small compared to core game (while Faction or Nightfall were not that small compared to Prophecies).

And I’m hoping things will go faster afterwards, otherwise the game may just slow down and freeze because all those good ideas and nice tools were put aside and let to rust.

Hello folks,

I’ve been reading that forum for some months now, and I feel like lots of players have different views about what should WvW be. I’m therefore opening this thread out of curiosity on the question of balance between PvP and PvE in WvW.
I’m positive there’s no “correct” answer to this, and only opinions, so I’d be glad anyone respect each other’s view, and bear to disagree. I’m also aware there’re lots of other issues with the game overall and WvW in particular. I’m just curious about what people think on this topic.

Now for the basics : we’re talking about a WvW mode with objective to take, and a PPT PPK system. We’re not talking about figures, skill balance or skill lags or such things. So let’s imagine 2 extreme and caricatural situation :

• Pure PvP mode : no NPC’s at all, no guards, no lord (capture ring with tweaked capture duration), no dollies, even no objective upgrades. All should be done and driven by players (scouting, defending etc.)
• Competitive PvE mode : NPC’s able to easily kill lonely players, dollies, aethercannon, turrets, siege, various mechanics, self-holding map, almost automatic war. Players would take part to it, and “influence” it in a winning way.

Now, where would you put the cursor ? Where do WvW mechanics stop and PvE gimmicks start ?

SlippyCheeze.5483:

DGraves.3720:

And you actually bring up another “silent” issue. The armor classes themselves. Soloing an enemy on a Warrior isn’t just easier because it’s a Warrior but because Warriors naturally have the most defense. Since defense is a divider every point of it counts so the 304 point difference in ascended armor is huge. That’s literally 24% 15% of the heavy armor. So just choosing an elementalist opens you to 24% 15% more damage.

That’s insane.

No, that’s a design decision, compensated for by way of the design team making deliberate choices elsewhere to balance that increased risk of damage by way of something else.

For example, necro has a larger effective health pool, mesmer has clones that taunt and distract enemies, ele has significant defensive and healing tools available on zero notice, etc.

It’s entirely reasonable to argue that those are not sufficient, but it’s not enough to look at a single aspect of the game, see a difference, and then declare the whole thing broken.

I’d argue, in fact, that if you put heavy armor on a necro without any other changes, you would find the overall effect to be a little … unbalancing.

In a perfect world, what you say would make sense. Yet, and I think that’s what the OP was underlining, those profession mechanics (which are supposed to allow any class to endure a long fight) are mostly dismissed and underrated. Only some gimmicks like boonshare or strong healers like water ele or druid can play that.

The thing is fights are too quick. The trend is “just smash it”, and I agree on the fact a character’s defense isn’t correctly balanced with big foes damage capabilities. So, players want to end the fight as fast as possible, and thus favor raw damage builds.

I totally agree on the fact we should see more profession mechanics working in the open field. We also should be able to see more difference when fighting one or another profession, especially in WvW. For now, it’s mostly bunks, insane damage, stunlocks, without very much difference between classes.

And that’s a pity.

Surely WvW has the strategic depth of a mud puddle thanks to the “moar zerg” politics.

That’s why more mechanics that’d involve tactics can’t harm anyone. Moreover, I’d say that anything that proves roughly as effective as a zerg, without the zerg, can eventually become useful. So why not more tactics like this ?

Still, expandas, you better get ready for the “no more PvE gimmicks” answers :-( Sadly, most of WvW population looks for “just fights” with no consideration for tactics.

Ghoststeel.6098:

I’m confused as to why pigeonholing (forcing) people into a defensive playstyle will be a good thing? I thought options were a selling point in this game. I thought “No holy trinity” was also a selling point of this game. I’m new, so I seriously do not understand why removing options will make this game better. Or I just might not know something sucks yet because I am too new.

You’re right when you tell that options and “no trinity” were a selling point of this game. Issue is the very conception of most PvE content (fractals and raids not included) is mostly make bosses with insane HP and damage stats, and mechanics so that “just smash it” will work. As most players want to finish things quickly, they’ll favor DPS classes and builds. They won’t want fights to drag, because they rely on blokcs, evades and mechanics like traits or invulnerability to sustain.

DGraves.3720:

But your solution is to make the game harder and less forgiving. I think what you consider “interesting” is one thing, and you are free to your opinion, but what makes something viable such as sustainability (which is what Vitality, Toughness & Healing Power are) is separate from personal goals and really just a question of algorithmic behavior.

If you want players to actually use passive defensive techniques you need to create a system where strikes aren’t “large” but strikes are “quick”. Sustainability is a counter to damage pressure not raw damage so having 3,000 armor and 30,000 health in a game where a massive strike can do upwards 10,000 damage to a fully decked character is pretty much not going to ever see a sustainability model succeed.

You can prove this by running Nomad’s. You will die. Which should be effectively impossible to conceive but you will die.

I totally agree with your point of view. The only way to provide more diversity in fights, and shed light on defensive builds and stats is to make fights last longer. I only see a big issue : as most players are more or less lazy, they will want to stick to their DPS meta and spam all their stats to finish the boss the faster.

On the overall balance, I totally agree that any class running full nomad shouldn’t die against any mob.

A fundamental misconception has been made by ANet, and it’ll be very hard to go back from it.

I can see 2 solutions for this :

1. Have contested WP and contested keep trigger with separated conditions. Thus, a single guy could try it the sneaky way. Issue is a zerg can WP and steamroll him. Supposing of course the zerg finds him
2. Strongly tremendously buff guards. In Alpine (and deserted to a slightly less extent), guards are a mere joke. Should T3 guards be able to slay any fool that’d come alone too close, maybe there’d be less people running the WP troll. And now, I can hear the “oh no more PvE gimmicks” song.

And I agree with OriOri and Aeolus. Zergs are to be discouraged by any possible mean.

Dawnbreaker.6215:

See I dont want to replace any of GW2’s soundtracks because they are excellent. LA’s introduction theme is the one black sheep in the playlist which is unbearably bad. It’s really unfitting and should be removed.

Just as you said. LA’s rebuilt is the only black sheep. Yet, I don’t seem to be the only one not having that required music folder. So I suppose I make my own, and put my own playlists in it, they’ll override the default music that’s overall really good.

And that’s clearly not what I want. Unfortunately, there don’t seem to be any solution to remove songs from the default playlist, or add your own to the game without overriding the rest, so I must say that’s a feature that I’d enjoy.

Another issue : I don’t have a music folder next to my “screens” folder :-/

That’s an interesting feature I want to give a try. I just have some questions :

• The “ambient” playlist may have some “sub-playlists” ? Because ambient music isn’t the same should you be in Shiverpeaks or Ascalon, Kryta or Maguuma. How to handle that ?
• Same goes for the “City” playlist, even if I suppose there may be only one city theme, and then it goes to the ambient playlist.

A big issue now : if you use this, you remove every music coming from the game, replaced by your playlist, if I get it correctly. Yet, this thread only deals with the LA’s reconstruction music. Other musics aren’t much of an issue, so it may not be that appropriate.

I’d go with Prefix or Stat/Attribute combination. As long as there’re enough links towards the good wiki page, I’m fine with it.

I know a keyring is a reccurring question is, and it would indeed be useful given the “one map one key” trend existing since silverwastes.

I also know there probably won’t be any soon, so I’m proposing another solution : make keys accessible from the bank. Materials are (put in bank, not in collections), rubies and other “currencies” are. So, it’d be a nice idea to have keys used from the bank too.

My…

I thought I was the only one to be fed up of that noisy fanfare. I acknowledge the superman thing. I’m really tired of it, and switch sound off when the song goes. Jeremy did amazing things, and so did Maclaine and Lena.
Unfortunately, this one is definitely getting on my nerves. LA has been rebuilt for some times now, and should go back to more peaceful songs !

Or just make it so that this very song doesn’t pop out as the first one when you get in LA. Because it’s such a cause most of the time.

To be honest, I’ve seen that kind of “you move -no ! YOU move !” argument countless times in AB and TD. Less in VB, but I think HP there are more straightforward.

HoT maps are deteriorating. There’s a normal predictable factor in it : people usually get bored of it. It’s the same for lots of core maps. World bosses are a way to keep some activity in some places of some maps. Metas are a good thing, in my opinion.

Another idea is what they did in living world season 1 : make things happen in core maps (lion’s arch, tower of nightmare in kessex, marionette in Lornar, toxic events in some others). I really liked that idea, and I feel like it put more people in those maps. Some events could be revamped to HoT meta’s quality : I’m thinking of Ulgoth the Modniir in Hinterlands, or Komissar in Dredgehaunt cliffs. Some cleaning and dusting could make them really good metas that’d bring people.

Now for another issue you raise in your topic : players playing casual zombies joining a zerg to win. It’s been an issue for a long time in GW2, in PvE as in WvW. It has sometimes be adressed (champion train in Queensdale e.g.) but the safest way to avoid it is avoid the “just smash it” design. Unfortunately, ANet has been sticking to that design for ages. Avoiding it requires more elaborate mechanic, and I can empathize with players not wanting to learn them because it’d be too tiresome.

Yet, twisted marionette is one of my fondest memory.

(edit = typo)

HoT HP are required to get a toon its elite spec and trains may be the easiest way. Fast and no need to think too much about it.

Maps meta are required for… meh… ? Entertainement ? Farming skins or reciepes ?

To be honest, I love HoT maps (ok, not TD so much) and I spent hours leading in AB. I’m sad to see that they’re now mostly empty, that LFG doesn’t give that many options to run a nice meta. And I’m even sadder to think about new players trying to make their way in HoT and probably won’t enjoy the maps as much as I did at launch.

It’s all a matter of incentive. As long as content won’t be a thing to redo, either because of rewards, or because if its inherent qualities ; as long as the need to farm HP quick and smooth will be the dominant feeling, then that issue will shine again.

DevilishLyx.2340:

ThomasC.1056:

The other reason may be the amount of boons, and the amount of “block” and “invulnerable” I see whenever I cast anything at a zerg.

Yet you dont hear PvE players complain about lag in major events! Just WvW. WvW servers are given low priority and hence low bandwidth capacity, and it is this which leads to lag.

Actually, there’s also lag in big events where lots of people pack and smah, i.e. in world bosses burning phases. It’s just less critical because of less risk to be killed by the boss.

Korgov.7645:

Which prof and build is the most resilient against skill lag? Can it still do any damage? Could you assemble a squad of those and be successful?

Against the power of skill lag, there can be no victory. We must join with it, Korgov. We must join with the zerg. It would be wiser, my friend.

Hello,

I can totally relate, and I agree it sometimes kill the fun. It’s also quite trendy, and I think it’s an explanation to things people also see and complain, i.e. : bunker builds, automatic skills (passive traits) that inflict condis or boons. And also zergs.

Maybe they could do a test for their balance system. Take any full zerk class with food and whatever could max damage output vs. a standing celestial ele. No skill or script ever should be able to take more than 66% HP. That’s an exemple of how things could be tweaked.

Also, in GW1, there used to be enchantements that prevented to lose more than 30% HP in a given amount of time. Such things should come back in GW2…

Unfortunately, that’s very true, and that’s one of the reasons I avoid zergs : laglock’d, image freezes 1 sec, dead and stomped. And I play on a good PC !
The other reason may be the amount of boons, and the amount of “block” and “invulnerable” I see whenever I cast anything at a zerg.

Guardians and Dragonhunter are indeed really slow. The only way to have them run faster is use of Staff 3, runes or shouts. I think staff is widely used in WvW because of mobility and the autoattack that’s an AoE that can come in handy in blobs.

Yet, I’m really not fond of staff so I won’t tell more, and maybe some other people will be able to talk better about it.

Hello Jalassa,

I’d like to answer that your feeling may result from gaps between “what you like” and “what actually works”. Those gaps may vary accordingly with the game mode you’re playing.

In your exemple, WvW blobs fighting each others, the main point is to spam big AoE attacks and condis in the blob without even need of defining your enemy. Ranger is very bad at this (so are some other classes), mostly because of lack of cleaving and AoE skills.

Rangers are more of a “duel” class that works better in the small scale scene in WvW, so you may want to favor roaming and small teams with your ranger.

Logins are the same, but GW1 has a security question asking for one character’s name in order to log in, in addition to the usual email and password.

For tickets, you should wait 3 days to get an answer, and if you don’t get one, signal it in this subforum accordingly to the procedure stated there.

Tiny Doom.4380:

(…)The much-maligned zerg, pvd and ktrain styles of play were all simultaneously invented and promulgated by players and fostered and facilitated by the game systems. It’s hardly as though anyone’s going against the grain by playing this way.

Heading into the fifth year of the life of this MMO it seems highly unlikely this direction will be reversed although I guess it’s always possible that an expansion could see the current WvW scrapped and replaced by another version or another large-scale PvPvE mode entirely.

I’m perplex about that. Players doing ktrains is as old as the game. But, on the PvE side, those kind of behaviours have been strongly discouraged : think of queensdale champion’s train… Yet, I’m not sure it’s been squished because of “it’s a k-train”, or because of the toxicity of having a whole veteran zerg in a beginner’s map, not helping anyone, and yelling names at unfortunate ones who killed a champion on its path.

Anyway, and supposing my first assumption is true, it amazes me to see that omniblobs are discouraged in PvE while being enforced in WvW.

Aeolus.3615:

displayname.8315:

EotM has a stacking problem because WvW has a stacking problem. Zerglings don’t seem to understand that. Too much PvD rot the brain. If they unlink EotM from WvW and change the map it would be far superior.

its a map design and WvW overall lack of mechanic flaw that “rot the players brain” Anet tried to add new map via DBL and players QQ about it since they cant ktrain faster as alpina map.
And on the defense side players dont want to learn to use the portals that would make the walks almost as faster as in Alpine bl mal, gw2 players are not good gammers overall.
Guilds need to fight for structures, guilds need to fight for reource nodes, in a new map or several smaller maps, with this faction system would work, the server community thing is a dead long time ago, server cumminities are not more than a bunch of ktrainners as well most WvW guilds are that drop tower even if has one defender.

Guilds need to fight not Ktrain, eotm map needs to be at least temporary shutdown, if killing(its actually changing) whats left of the servers community and make then make a new(as in refresh and grow a new and better community) community group with good objectives i think it would be a good trade off/scarifice.

The issue is also alot of players that dont want the ktrain model to be changed since they find that rewarding and being good at the game. (i actually found players that belive that, more than i wish for….)

Oh my… You hit it right in the spot ! As long as players will come in WvW to casually join a zerg and get bags while spamming 1, there won’t be any way to have the game mode raise its head. Zergs are just perfect : no need to think, bash your head on doors to open them, and laglock any ennemy you meet, before just steamrolling it. And the scenery is nice yes, with all these towers and keeps and camps. Cute.

Well… Even celestial avatar has 3/5 ranged abilities while glyphs are still melee.

Of course there’re other possibilities, and you’re not bound to “You’re a druid so equip a staff and all glyphs”. Yet, rangers as a whole already have their share of ranged options and revs only have one ranged weapon.

TBH, I usually use hammer with tablet because I rather play backline, yet staff is labeled Ventari’s weapon.

Anyway, that was just my late bewildered thread, so thanks for answering

Hello folks,

I had this thought some other day that I wanted to share because it bugs me a bit. Amongst all my characters, there’s a druid and a revenant, and I’m using Ventari with it and you can guess where I’m heading now.

• With druid comes glyphs, and glyphs are point blank area of effect (PBAoE) skills so you’ve got to melee if you want them to serve their purpose.
• With Ventari comes the tablet, which works in a ranged area of effect (unless you’re fighting next to it of course)
• With druid comes a staff that’s only got ranged skills.
• With Ventari comes a staff that’s only got melee skills.

And this is where something feels out of place : in my mind, Druid would be perfect with Rev staff, and Ventari Rev would be much easier and funnier with druid staff. So maybe I’m too much in the “if you do it, do it fully or don’t do” behaviour, maybe I just fail to see the purpose in a backline druid using glyphs when enemies get too close, or a melee ventari keeping the tablet close…

Of course I’m positive there won’t be any switch between those weapons (yet, I still say I’d enjoy it a lot) ! So I’m just wondering here : is there any reason the weapon skills and utility skills of both Druid and Ventari have been designed that way ? (one melee set , one ranged set)

Orpheal.8263:

this ridiculous stupid linking of worlds as pathetic “pseudo solution” for population problems will only end, if ANet makes finally the neccessary step to redesign WvW into a Faction based Game Concept, because only once Anet makes finally the needed step to get rid of “Servers” as Worlds they let fight against each other, over to an server independent system of 3 Factions which get their players shared among all servers.

Only then will anet completely solve the Ppopulation problem this game has since multiple years now …

The question is only…

Should players decide, to which Faction they want to belong permanently.
Or should players get put by rotation each week into a different Faction by random?

However, the poiunt stands – Anet must get away from their outdated Server System, because as long they stay on this outdated system, they will never solve the Population Problems and continue shifting the real issue around on a scale with their senseless Server linkings only and annoy with this the playerbase only more and more each time.

Faction thing could be indeed the solution. Yet the maps may be too small. WvW population needs to bleed a little more (I’m being ironic here). That’s an issue with maps : they’re currently too big to keep that many servers : some feel empty and have no action. But they’re also too small to only have 3 factions.

And I think players should decide, mostly because of the “I want to play with my friends” thing.

Interesting idea. I like it ! With a WP roughly in the middle, it’d indeed make travels easier.

That idea would also work well with an idea that sometimes pop : putting fast travel utilities from one tower to another (like skritt tunnels). We could envision to trigger them on and off through the same mechanic you’re saying.

I disagree with this option.

Since WvW is (officially) focused on objectives, their capture, their upgrade, and their defence, whatever mechanic that’d make a server wish they were flipped is to be dismissed. I’m feeling sorry about players who don’t like PPT when I’m writing that, but it’s one of WvW central things so…
Then again, I’m not saying the current numbers are fine and shouldn’t be tweaked.

Dawdler.8521:

I would personally propose an incredibly simple idea that give players more control of any extra PPT:
- Each tier on all objectives gives +1 PPT to their worth
- Each tier on connected camps give +1 PPT to their connected objective worth.

Two rules and thats it. No algorithms, no timeframes for decay, just instant values at any given point.

I came up with a similar idea some months ago, with a scoring system bound to land occupation
To sum it up, it was :

• Each objective is worth a given area, related to what tier it is ;
• As objectives grow in tiers, they eventually connect, making bigger areas
• Objectives held by opposing servers and next to each other would make a malus
• The biggest area of each map is worth bonus points.

One of the expected advantages is to provide more room for side mechanics.

On a related topic, one thing that I’d enjoy to see is : make objective provide PPT only when virtous indignation is off. I bet that some camp wouldn’t give that many points in a week ! I should open a whole thread on this…

Siege may be an annoyance, but it’s not truly powerful to prevent anything from happen when used in defence : either you’re facing a big blob, and it doesn’t care, or you’re facing a small group, and it has so many mobility that it just jumps off AoE.
Moreover, when you’re using a siege, you’re the perfect training dummy for ranged professions…

Sorry. Off topic. I just had to rant on defence siege.

Hello,

DBL has its flaws and qualities. Some love it, some don’t. It’s different from ABL and EBG for sure.

Now, there’s been an official poll long ago. Here’s the result.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

The poll has ended! After removing all votes for “Don’t Count My Vote” the final results are:

65.5% No: The Desert Borderland map should continue to be supported.
34.5% Yes: The Desert Borderland map should be permanently disabled.

This means that the Desert Borderlands map will continue to be supported. Next, the Mixed Borderlands poll will be re-run to determine how the Desert Borderlands map will re-enter play. Thank you to everyone who voted!

So… I hope it clears your doubts. For memory, the answer “Yes : The Desert Borderland map should be permanently disabled” needed 75% vote to be enforced. There’s been bunches of threads and posts about polls’ accuracy and validity.

So…. Maybe it’s time to let go of DBL ranting, go back to ABL or EBG and do what you enjoy to do, while leaving those who like DBL enjoy it.

I opened a thread last month, leading to roughly the same conclusion

For now, and as I thought more about that question, I’m now not really sure anymore it could be the best solution. Yet, I’m sticking to some of my conclusions :

• Most fights currently tend to be “the faster the better”, which leads to insane power creep (in order to get quickly done), stunlock issues, and dismisses lots of builds possibilities. Don’t take me wrong : I’m not against spike builds. But I think it’s a gameplay that suits to some professions, and some others should be able to be fun and effective in another way than spikes. And whatever happens, one spike out of the blue should never be enough to end a decent fight.
• Longer fights would provide time for more professions mechanics to start and become effective. Which is related to my previous point.

So, I thought of increasing the HP pool of everyone. Now, as some here stated, it’d drag to endless fights, especially with bunker and/or boonshare builds. Cerby’s idea is teasing, but “slow” builds would get wiped before they could do anything. Tongku’s idea of reducing base stats and increasing scaling may be a solution for more coloured kinds of gameplays.

Anyway, the main issue in my opinion with zergs is they actually laglock you before you’re able to do anything ;-)

No health bar, no way to know whether they suffer from condis.

I’m dreaming for a “close allies” tool that’ll be a little window on the side of the screen. It’d display current health bar as well as condi symbols for, say, 8-10 allies at 1200 range around self. And you could click on their health bars to aim at them, or at their location.

Probably a whole face, including eyebrows, is a texture applied on a wire model, that’s why you can’t tweak them much. Unfortunately, I saw some faces that I liked, and eventually dismissed because of ugly eyebrows.

Anyway, it’s true lots of other games have more eyebrows options. Maybe in GW3…

1. Provide more diversity in WvW : gameplay, builds, and discourage k-trains.
2. Solve server population inbalance issues : maps are too big so reduce the number of tiers.
3. Make rewards better : specific skins, WvW rewards etc. Make rewards depend on possession and score.
4. Make WvW a PPT centered game mode, and create a game mode focused on pointless fights : self-explanatory.
5. Solve lag issues.

fluffdragon.1523:

But also because there were no super-mobs with special attacks that could wipe out a party or hit you from infinite range or without line-of-sight. Because nothing had obscene health or armor while still being at your level. Because no development team made a conscious effort to “kill the berserker meta” by ramping up the burst damage of every monster in the entire expansion.

Simply put, other than the addition of things like inscriptions and new professions, Guild Wars 1 was a game that played by its own rules. By contrast, GW2 is a game that can’t seem to keep the same kittened rules for a single year’s time without changing them for the worse.

So much this ! The whole play by the rule thing ! I couldn’t have put it better than you did, thank you. Indeed, GW1 played by its own rules when it came to mobs. GW2 has one set of strict and narrow rules for players, and elusive ever-changing rules for mobs. That kind of double vision leads to the most frustrating gameplay, and is usually an evidence of poor game design. How do you want players to fully enjoy the game if devs can’t even use the very same set of rules to make new challenging content ?

rapthorne.7345:

Difficulty is difficult to manage in an action game where damage negation is something every character has access to. How does one provide a sufficiently challenging encounter that takes in to account dodge mechanics and does not shoehorn people in to having to use specific builds to prevail (something that Anet have said they never want to do), all while maintaining the action aspect of things and taking in to account any one of a large number of team comps?

That is an excellent question. Issue is : ANet’s consistent answer over the years has been and roughly still is : “just spam damage.” Raw damage is usually better than condition damage in PvE.
Of course, there’re some exceptions, the biggest one may be Vermignus : players usually don’t strike the worm. The golem does it. The mission is to keep it alive and fed. I think it’s interesting because it could provide a big incentive for buff roles and heal roles. Yet, it eventually comes down to smash all the trash wurms. The golem is never truly endangered. In a similar fashion, Triple trouble or Tequatl have gimmicks between burn phases, but it ends up smahing the boss as hard as possible afterwards.

So, the point is : open PvE roughly only offers “just smash it” content, which involve no tactics at all. And the few “tactics” thing for world boss becomes a compulsory mechanic in a matter of days. So where is actually the challenging content ?

All of this leads there :

rapthorne.7345:

With regards to the trinity comments, there have been several devs over the years state that GW2 is built on a “soft” Trinity, in that the trinity is still there and still something every class can build towards. Every single class available in the game has builds and skills that contribute in some way to one corner of the classic trinity. Sure, the typical healspammer support might be rare (but possible), but every class has some supportive, dps and tanking capacity that can be built on.

That’s indeed true. It’s what I call flavours and not roles. The issue is : if the only thing to do is “just smash”, then the trinity gets useless ! Look at Ventari rev or overall healing classes : they’re not really seen in open PvE. It’s sad because it eventually leads to a whole bunch of utilities being put aside because they’re related to a way of playing that’s not “just smash it” and therefore, not really needed nor effective. It’s a waste of time and resources. Likewise, some classes are more “duel” oriented instead of AoE, and they sometimes suffer in open PvE.

So content really matters when it comes to encourage build diversity. This is ANet’s problem. If they provide content where heals and boons and buffs really matter, while smahing the enemy is useless, then, maybe, such builds would shine more ? As long as it’ll only be a matter of “just smash it”, then players will run builds that smash hard.

rapthorne.7345:

As far as new character skills. It would definitely be nice to see something new there, I have to agree. But I also don’t want to have to deal with the 6 toolbars of skills I have in other MMO’s. Each skill needs to be worth it’s place on your 6-0 keys.
We know at this point that new weapon skills will come pretty much only with new expansions. The point of multiple weapon classes was to expand the skill pool by changing weapons, rather than locking everyone to a single weapon type and making skills generic. I like this choice, myself, that every weapon has it’s own unique combat style, it’s not just a tool to hit things with while spamming generic skills.

Back in GW1, there were “weapon skills”, i.e. skills that required you to equip a specific weapon. All others were utilities. And weapons had an auto-attack.
In itself, the current system is a better idea, but it truly suffers from a lack of update.
And it’s not as if other possibilities didn’t exist ! Just check Instructor Gabrielle in DBL. She clearly is a staff ele ! So there’re skills ! Why would it be impossible to have them given to players ? Even in a less OP version, it’d be nice.

Too many skills may indeed lead to some confusion. And the condi/boons system would have to expand, should new effects be added. Yet, there’re clearly too few skills in the current release.

Junkpile.7439:

CrimeMaker.8612:

If condis dont get nerf then WvW can never be fun again fight wise

I think that WvW players low skill level is biggest problem why fight aren’t fun.

That may be true. Issue is in WvW, low skill is strongly encouraged. Think of omniblobs running all around and opening doors by smashing their heads on them, or think of meta cheese build that work on their own. WvW is a game mode for casual players.

It’s hard to tell it’s wrong. Suppose you could run several effective builds on one profession : one needs you to check timing, proper script, strategic skill placement for max effectiveness. The other needs you to just use all your skill bar more or less at once, and wait for your enemy to die. Which one would you pick if you want to survive ?

Now, players also need to learn and it takes time. If WvW core players were only running high skill high damage builds (supposing that exists of course), any new player would get ganked because of lack of skill with effective builds, and may eventually get disgusted.

Unless of course there’s kind of a ladder for WvW with low tiers running the same cheese builds and running blobs, and higher tiers miraculously running something else because diversity is better, and interesting fights. Is it actually credible ?

As long as there’ll be a build labeled “less effort, best rewards”, then that’s the one you’ll see everywhere. Just like you see k-trains everywhere.

Babyburger.3104:

I suppose that’s true. Mesmer is a good suggestion I think. Still, the stats cannot be changed anymore and the vigils also cost a lot. I doubt I can go in full Berserker gear to raids.

What do you mean “Stats cannot be changed anymore” ? Has the mystic forge thing to restat ascended gear been removed ?

Dawdler.8521:

Nah, just remove the portals and make the doors open and close automatically whenever friendly players are at it.

Come on, it’d be insanely fun.

Actually, I saw that idea ages ago ! Someone told objectives should work as silverwastes : gates always opened, and when they become “under attack” (with swords etc.), gates close. I honestly think it’d be interesting, but it’d need some tweaks :

• Allow each objectives to have a “secret passage” entrance for defenders, like towers in DBL, but can be something more sophisticated like more distant tunnels e. g.
• Rework the “under attack” event thing, so that it doesn’t trigger when the lord is half dead. Could be trigger as soon as an enemy is spotted in the vicinity.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I don’t remember many lore/story choices in Guild Wars (One).

Indeed, there wasn’t any choice either. I only put that issue along with the others to emphasize the overall disconnection problem.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I thought most players said they used the same build(s) in Guild Wars (One).

Just to make sure. Was the same build than one’s neighbour, or the same build over time ? Running the same build over time is not a big issue in itself : people may like a specific way of playing. Yet, GW1 allowed players to change because there used to be choice. And at the same time, GW1 allowed to run a build that was different from your neighbour. One of GW2 issues is that players use the same build over time and than the neighbour’s.

Tru Reptile.6058:

I agree op, but inb4 the usual suspects tell us we’re blinded by nostalgia or wearing rose colored glasses.

There may honestly be some nostalgia. Yet, I feel like GW1 had major qualities, and it was dangerous to change them. Of course, it could have been a good idea. It was a bet, and I feel like it’s been lost, because, as I stated, there’re trends showing that the devs are eventually taking a 180 turn.

Tension comes when that turns involves non-playing content, while players are still stuck to initial ideas that happened to be flawed.

Ameepa.6793:

Right click salvage kit -> salvage all blues and greens -> click deposit all -> “sell all junk” at vendor -> sell left over loot (rares and exotics) in TP

Are you using a basic kit so that greens don’t leave you annoying runes or sigils ? Just to make sure. I should try it actually.

On the main topic, I’d actually enjoy a right-click option that’d be “Sell on TP to best offer”. It’ll need some coding to check whether such a trade is possible but it’d be helpful.

Otherwise, the classical call for a “mark as junk” option in the right click menu, that’d allow masse sale through the “sell junk” button.