Guild Wars 2

Test.8734:

Are you talking about playing a game to have fun, or about work?

I don’t know about you, but I don’t work for free. I work in something I enjoy and I’m paid for it. In a game, I’m not going to work – I’m going to have fun. If there’s not enough content for me to have fun, just a lot of grind, I’m not going to play at all.

I think this is a matter of age. Children have a lot of free time and so don’t value enough the time they have to spend; it’s common to see them doing something mindless just to pass time. Adults, in other hand, realize how productive and lucrative their time is, and focus on having good experiences with the time they have; they are less likely to spend their free time doing something boring over and over (aka grind) and more likely to only invest their time when they enjoy doing so.

And yet . . . Achievement Hunter exists.

IndigoSundown.5419:

In a rare moment of irony I reflect on how SWtOR would have been a better game if it had not borrowed what it did from WoW, and GW2 would have been a better game if it had not borrowed what it did from WoW. Of course, the two games took mostly different things, but there you have it.

So, now, I’m doing the Cynic’s Tango over MMO’s in general.

The weird thing, neither game would have probably existed if it weren’t for WoW. Well, maybe GW2 – it seemed honestly that was the only direction GW could evolve at all without completely re-writing the base game to be something entirely different.

But TOR? I expect it never would have gotten a green light if it had not been BioWare and WoW hadn’t already proven the viability of taking something already with plenty of supporting lore and installed fanbase to make an MMO.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Sons of Svanir aren’t corrupted nor do they come from the dragon.

The fact that they come from Mordremoth means that they fit one of the definitions for what a dragon minion is.

Technically sylvari don’t come from the dragon either. They come from a seed which may have come from the dragon directly. But more than likely did not.

. . . also, the Sons of Svanir are probably closer to the Nightmare Court as far as things go. Not under the sway of a dragon directly but still devoted to them. Assuming, of course, the Nightmare is a semblance of Mordremoth’s influence . . . and discarding the technicality of “being of the dragon” vs “being noncorrupted”.

(Though the Sons of Svanir don’t quite look like typical norn, sometimes . . . )

Guhracie.3419:

I’m finding myself less and less enthused about recommending people make and try all the different professions before they decide on a main profession to play. The reason is that it used to be a breeze to get to level 20 and have a feel for that class. You had traits. You had access to all the weapons. You had access to all but the elite skill, I think.

Now? Telling someone to experiment with the professions is just… it’s a timesink, and it’s not fun. They’d have to reach level 30 even just to SEE the traits, in game. I’ve gotten a total of one character from 1-80 since the trait changes.

Yeah . . . all honesty here, I haven’t gone back to my lowbie sub-30 characters since the Traits rework. I should, but . . . I barely had any drive to play them as it was. Not when I could run around on my ranger doing content with better rewards more suitable for my end goals (rares for ecto, components for crafting).

For now, I’m just stuck collecting tomes and crossing my fingers that they deign to tell us more about this “new-new” trait system, because I desperately want to love leveling again.

I desperately want to not feel ashamed for being on the forums and liking the game. So far, that’s not happening.

tigirius.9014:

Vayne.8563:

tigirius.9014:

Vayne.8563:

To those who claim that grind lowers the population, there’s evidence it works both ways. Not enough grind can lower the population as well.

Anet was losing people who ran out of stuff to work on and too many people have been brainwashed by other games to think that they can just have a skin end game.

That’s the problem Anet ran into when they made the choice to add ascended gear.

You’re making assumption that more people leave because of grind than stay because of it. We simply don’t know that’s true.

Name one game in America or even in the UK where the grind produced millions of players? One. There isn’t one so I know the answer already and trust me I read about every single one of them including indies on multiple news sites. In fact, those with major grinds say for example, Wildstar, have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that western audiences hate grind and that it always lowers the population. The population is directly affected also by how high the RNG is. Archeage anyone? Seriously, there are countless other examples out there.

Farmville. Thanks.

Let me rephrase that since you need clarification we are discussing MMOs and not microtransaction facebook games.

Name on MMO in America or EU that has a high population after adding an endless grind. You won’t find one.

Wartune.

Nilkemia.8507:

I don’t have to, or plan to count the invasions or any of the open world events she shows up in. The instances we encounter her in are more than enough.

Opening Ceremony (Queen’s Jubilee) : At least 5 times on screen. In her very first appearance, no less.

She never appeared during the Opening Ceremony

No. Never did.

Closing Ceremony : Twice on screen. Possibly a third for when you defeat the boss and she retreats into the Pavilion, but this video didn’t show if that was the case.

Video proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr6ojFQg0LI

Scarlet’s Playhouse : 4 times during the entire instance for each round against her and when she escapes.

Fractured: Once in the Thaumanova Reactor, after her monologue just before the boss fight.

The Nightmare Within: Twice. Once to get in just before the boss fight and monologue at you again, then again via a portal to leave.

Strange thing is, despite her being present to taunt all through the tower, she never showed physically, but tons of hallucinations (including auditory ones) showed up. I don’t know if it’s easy to count these.

Surprisingly she ditched it entirely for the Battle for Lion’s Arch while onboard the Breachmaker.

Yeah, very strange.

Also, Kudu still outdoes her. Five times alone during the fight in Sorrow’s Embrace (teleporting before loosing a golem boss on you, four times, then teleporting out).

Counting the times he shows up during the asura personal story . . . there’s three times he intersects the story. As my character doesn’t have that branch as their personal story (Infinity Ball instead – it looked more interesting) I only can go by wiki involvement. Assume one teleport each time . . . minimum, so that’s eight.

The tally of Scarlet has seven.

I’ve accepted that we’ll never find common ground regarding Scarlet’s worth (or lack of) to the story. She did have potential, but it was utterly wasted, and they still had plenty of other potential masterminds they could’ve used in her place for the alliances she ended up creating. Her only lasting impact at this point was waking Mordremoth up early, along with all those broken probes left all over Tyria.

Unfortunately, there’s no way to ever fully remove her taint on the story now. One hopes they’ll eventually find a way to bring back Season 1 for those who started playing after that, but I’m not holding high hopes on that either.

We’re not disagreeing too much – they didn’t handle her as well as they could have. They could have done much better.

I don’t think she’s a terrible character. Not on the level of others they keep shoving in our face (like Lord Faren or Zojja).

I’d almost put gold down Trait Masteries will get attention again before the expansion. Almost.

Honestly, at this point it amuses me a lot more how there was the same sort of grind (barring Ascended, which you don’t need short of high level Fractals) in GW1 and that game was okay.

Seriously. Gamer Title Track, Legendary Defender of Ascalon, and Legendary Grandmaster Cartographer.

I didn’t think some of the Elite Skill hunting was fun. Specifically, the kind where you had to run a mission to a specific boss to snag it. With the proper class, naturally.

Most of it was . . . eh? I mean, that’s how things were done. I suppose it was a fun way to do things but really was kind of restrictive when you look back on it.

Zenith.7301:

You know what the runes that are expected are.

Pirate? Oh, no wait, I know, Rata Sum!

You can solo fine, but you need to learn how. Heroes help out immensely, once you can really equip skills you want.

Koviko.3248:

I’m going to aim for the Cartographer title, too!

You poor fool.

Best of luck to you with that. Remember to explore EVERY area you step into thoroughly.

Seriously, a lot of the lore is found through exploration and searching it out. Just running through the whole story and minimal side-quests or explorations . . . doesn’t cut it.

It’s a case of people being very invested with their interpretations, having spent a lot of time and brainpower working on them. This isn’t a bad thing . . . the inflexibility is, however.

naiasonod.9265:

Why do you find it insulting, or almost so as the exacting case may be? If one does not like something, change it, change one’s approach to it to be something more likeable or don’t do it.

Change the things you cannot accept, but do not lightly accept the things you cannot change – try, or be prepared to settle for something compromised.

And what makes you think there is anything “lightly accepting” about how I approach things? Or anyone else in a position where they either have the choice to eat a bullet or continue on? You accept it because the alternative is unthinkable, not because you like it.

You go on. You get through it. Then when you have what you went into that torment for, you leave it behind.

I too deal with a lot of clients (and occasionally that term is strictly applied because calling them kitten-faced kittens isn’t professional), and I won’t tolerate much guff from them. I worked ceaselessly to no longer be in such positions.

So you understand why someone does have to put up with the unpleasant, and just focus on what waits on the other side of it. You put up with it, because you need to.

Here, in a game like this where everything is literally fabricated and there is no such thing as anything being unchangeable? Here, in a game wherein which literally everything, right down to even playing it, is utterly optional?

Yes.

Because it’s not like I play this game all the time. Sometimes I just don’t feel like putting up with it, and so I don’t. I don’t insist people play the game if they’re not happy with it.

Take a break. Do it in smaller bursts you can manage. Re-evaluate how much you really want what you’re grinding for. Or, better yet, how much it’s needed.

If you want it bad enough, or if you need it, you’ll make it happen. It’s no different than anywhere else, virtual or not.

Now, to point out back what I started with: Nobody deserves to be forcibly treated poorly. If they choose to? That’s their choice, and I would pity them for choosing it if there was a better option. But to say they deserve it because they didn’t insist on better or nothing? That’s the point I found insulting – a thinly veiled “they got what’s coming to them”. No, no, I reject the philosophy which says such and offers no pity, no compassion, but only contempt.

I’m really sorry. I know where you’re coming from and to a point, I could relate. But that point . . . no, no that’s a place I cannot plant my feet to stand. I think people deserve better.

It has little to do with whether the game is grindy or not (this is something which can be debated for about fifty pages, and my opinion has been noted several times thus far). It has to do with the general attitude of “they deserve it”.

Nilkemia.8507:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

So why bring it up at all if they backpedaled and “fixed” it?

Because fixing something doesn’t change that they screwed up, nor does it mean I should ignore it afterwards.

Yes, you should. If her lore was changed to fix that, it was always like that. That’s how retcons work. The original material doesn’t matter anymore.

Feel free to show evidence where the dredge were willing to work with others outside of the dredge that we help in Sorrows Embrace or the rebellion up in Frostgorge Sound, or the ones that were manipulated

For the entire history of dredge and outsiders, or just within your target area so you can keep your point?

Same with the Flame Legion regarding females, please.

You mean, willing to talk with them and use them instead of your implication of “they don’t exist to us”? The Flame Legion isn’t the Sons of Svanir who basically tell every female norn to go drown themselves – they have uses for females, even if they fit a narrow band.

Taking advice from one and claiming it was their own idea all along? Fits with their modus operandi anyway.

“Do you like my Aetherblades? They work for me, you know. Because…they like living.”

Note this is after Mai Trin was in jail and out of command. So . . . yeah. Timing.

And as for Mai Trin and/or the other higher ups, we never get any real glimpse to their motivations for working for her either. For the grunts though, it is basically “we’re scared of her.”

Should they not be?

So this vision also showed Caithe’s (utterly stupid) secret, and what our player characters did in their second story arcs? How convenient.

Convenient is written all over the plotline everywhere in the game. All the time it’s wonderfully convenient our characters are in the place where they’re needed most so they can step in and act. All the time it’s wonderfully convenient how someone knows some little detail which can help us in a problem, or they know where to go find it. This isn’t just a Scarlet thing, this is a writing thing.

And it’s not just a GuildWars 2 thing either. Convenient coincidence is grease writers need to use so their plot doesn’t grind to a halt. It shows up in every piece of writing if you look hard enough.

It’s not stupid if he succeeded—something they don’t elaborate on later. He could’ve still had free will, or could’ve been being manipulated by the dragons at that, which could’ve explained why he didn’t just teleport out of there for that last fight too.

Scarlet also experimented on herself with Omadd’s mind-opening device too. And look how that turned out.

Oh, and Kudu only uses that personal teleporter a grand total of 3 times in the entire story, whereas Scarlet abused it like it was going out of style.

So she should be even more annoying to you by that logic.

Oh, she’s annoying to me, I never denied that. But Kudu has top billing for being an asura and should flipping know better than to experiment on himself. You don’t do that, you get disposable minions for that.

And do we count every invasion as an individual use of Scarlet using the device? Because if so we need to count every instance of everyone ever running Sorrow’s Embrace story mode of Kudu using his device. That’s only fair.

If not, and the invasion events count as only one instance (her defeat at the end), then there are less times Scarlet uses her personal teleporter device than Kudu. Once then, once to escape the Pavilion. She is careful not to put herself in that position again until it’s inside the Breachmaker – when she doesn’t use it to escape, but instead uses an access lift from what I recall.

But then, all of this I went over months ago. Scarlet isn’t as terrible “lore-wrecking” piece of crap as people insist. Two issues were central to what I see having been put out there:

- There was no buildup to her existence, no hints of it aside from vagaries, and suddenly she’s there. And they had space in which to introduce her – hints and details could have been threaded through the first few pieces of the Living Story at that time. Dialogue could have been cheaply tacked in there to lead to the idea of some_one_ in control. But they didn’t.

- The wackiness in the first time we met her was over the top and toned down the more we fought against her plans into a more focused madness. It could have worked if the start hadn’t been so high a bar set at the first reveal – which could be excused as Scarlet deciding to be theatrical due to thinking nobody was going to be able to stop her. Unfortunately, that excuse only is accepted if you liked her in any capacity – and it should have been different. Should have been hints she was playing to the gallery instead of just two moas short of a flock.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Nilkemia.8507:

If only we could retcon her out of existence. If only.

It’d be better if she was just FIXED. She could have actually, really worked . . . if it weren’t for the uneven nature of LS1

If by “fixed” you mean “completely change her backstory and change how she created the alliances” then sure, it could work. But that would be changing almost everything about her except “sylvari genius corrupted by Mordremoth” really.

Fixed as in her introduction handled better, the quirkiness at the start toned down (like they did later on) so she didn’t come off as she did in the first release she appeared in.

I certainly noticed most people never forgave that introduction and didn’t seem to get past it. Introduce her better and lay better groundwork and it would work fine.

naiasonod.9265:

Stark.1350:

naiasonod.9265:

captainteemo.6537:

After a short break from playing gw2 and coming back to it from other MMOs. You guys seriously don’t know what it means for an MMO to be grindy. Guildwars2 has it pretty good. If you’re upset, go try out other mmos and see for yourself.

Hey, well, there’s cow crap in the water over in India, so we shouldn’t complain about turds in ours? Bugger off.

There’s cow crap in every water, everywhere in the MMO world. There is grind in any game you can mention. Appreciate the fact this one is less so.

I have a philosophy in life, and it goes a little something like this – if you’re willing to tolerate crap, you deserve all the crap you’re willing to tolerate.

I’m sorry, no, nobody deserves that.

I tolerate a lot of crap, from people, from “customers” (I use the term loosely) and from people who think they know me online. I tolerate the prep, the research, the legwork to get things done as close to right as I can the first time. I tolerate people showing up with stupid dice games at my table and wanting me to play proclaiming it’s really fun.

I do this for a myriad amount of reasons, but chief among them? I know there’s worse things to have inflicted on me, and have been through at least four of them in the last three years.

Second? Because it’s often fun enough to have something tangential to the exercise I’m tolerating going on that I don’t have to think about it. Like having good music or a movie playing while doing the dice games, or having one real fun time in guild chat while attempting again to vanquish the Garden of Seborhin (and failing).

It is, unfortunately, almost insulting to suggest because I put up with it, that I somehow deserve it heaped upon me.

Conncept.7638:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Well, you did say “absolutely”, so we’re both exceptions to the absolute.

Fair enough, pardon the extremity of my statement.

But the point is they don’t look or hope for exotics, they look for ascended, and it’s completely understandable given ANets borked system.

celicynd.9420:

Not actually commenting on the no-grind part of this conversation… but as someone in TTS who has done Teq and Triwurm with them, in both zerg and reflect… I’ve never seen a gear check even called for, other than if you’re in condi or reflect, needing a certain type of weapon or trait setup (you know… so you can do the thing you’re in that team for). The character I bring is in full orange, since most of my ascended is on a different character.

So, whatever your actual point may be, don’t use fake information to try and validate it.

No, please, do continue.

Nilkemia.8507:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Dropped, since it was later said she studied them in sequence, not enrolling in each and doing them simultaneously.

They backpedaled a bit because even they realized how absurd that notion was.

So why bring it up at all if they backpedaled and “fixed” it?

The Flame Legion are a group of magic using charr who enslaved the others in the past, and also hate females (they’re apparently the reason we saw no female charr in the first Guild Wars). There was no reason for them to listen to a female sylvari. They’d try to burn her alive on sight.

Same with the dredge. Most of them are xenophobic, and after being manipulated by the Inquest, you’d think they’d be very very hesitant to even consider siding up with anyone else again—-let alone charr shamans who enslaved their own kind in the past.

And in both cases, demonstrably, you’d be wrong. It’s also worth noting it wasn’t the entire dredge or Flame Legion which dropped everything and joined up – just enough to become a threat.

The Aetherblades are just pirates given Inquest tech to play with—which they really didn’t need to, since they were already dealing with the bandits and Nightmare Court as part of the Sinister Triad (which they could’ve just as easily used). And from what little we see of the Aetherblades, their motivation is basically summed up as “We’re scared of her”. Pitiful.

Not quite true, but hey, why bother looking too hard at it? Mai Trin was leading them, and she was working for Scarlet directly until she got captured. After that, the next time we see them Scarlet is basically leading directly through threats of force. Given this happened shortly after we watch her pull off the bit with Twisted Watchwork? Believable.

And the Toxic Alliance…krait consider themselves superior to everyone else, and part of Cadeyrn’s disgruntlement leading to the Nightmare Court’s founding was that Niamh decided not to kill krait hatchlings they found, stating they had the right to grow, in the hope they might change their ways (highly unlikely, given what we know of the krait). Although, that probably doesn’t matter since Faolain’s in charge and Cadeyrn’s dead now…and they did dodge a bullet by saying in-game that it was a splinter faction of the Court.

They’re all basically splinter factions. That’s kind of the point.

A little bit of both. She was apparently a “special consultant”, as two Inquest near the start refer to her. It’s not clear what she did for them there beyond that, but near the end she shows up and monologues about how they screwed it up and that her job here is done, implying she did have a hand in what happened.

Or just being her quirky sarcastic self.

Well, even a “Mordremoth gave her mind reading powers/plot knowledge” might’ve sufficed.

Which couldn’t have been used since “Mordremoth” hadn’t been officially revealed as an entity yet. But even better, doesn’t need to be that – she went into the machine and had a vision; we don’t know if our vision was the same.

He figured out how to control dragon minions, something the Inquest put to use later in Arah. He beat Scarlet to manipulating the dredge first, and unlike with her, we actually see how he managed to do it. And he at least wasn’t annoying to listen to.

He also figured out how to mix corruptions but was stupid enough to experiment on himself. And he was annoying to deal with, especially with that personal teleporter he had so he could keep escaping points where he should have been nailed to the nearest wall with a spear through the head.

. . . something Scarlet did repeatedly. Which is why I say he is terrible.

Vayne.8563:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

vayne is partial correct, and it only proves my point more… these items can be harvested in the open world quite easily… so then why is a single node in an instance worth so much? even if I had a hundred friends and we allll spent all day long doing nothing but harvesting these mats… were still talking 300 units per person. you will neither make your money back for buying these, and 300 units on the BLTC per person will do nothing but drive prices down to regular levels…

That’s exactly my point. If Anet put something in the cash shop that was a real advantage, people would be screaming pay to win. This isn’t pay to win. It’s not even really worth it.

So how is it greedy to put something not worth it into the cash shop.

Greedy would be to take them out of the world and then put them in the cash shop.

People scream pay to win anyway, Vayne. What’s the point in trying to circumvent it at all anymore, just do it and be done.

BammBamm.6719:

basically you can experience every fractal without any resistance. so even for this exotic is enough.

Yes, it was, and still is Been there, done all of the originals within the first couple weeks of release in nothing but Exotics and Rares. Still doing them with four pieces of Ascended Gear, three pieces of Rare Gear, and the rest are Exotic. Except the aquabreather, natch.

Carighan.6758:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Yes.

:)

Meh.
I understand a lot of players are asking for it, but it feels like a huge shame to build over something as colossal as the main hub city being destroyed so quickly. I mean, it was back up and running (for all we care, as all facilities were there) within months.

Quickly? Two separate time flows at work here – either months, in-story or over a year in real time.

I don’t think it’s a huge shame to have it rebuilt again, IF there’s a memorial to signify there was incredible loss of life in the attack.

Nilkemia.8507:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Nilkemia.8507:

If only we could retcon her out of existence. If only.

It’d be better if she was just FIXED. She could have actually, really worked . . . if it weren’t for the uneven nature of LS1

No. She was broken lore staining filth from the beginning. And I consider the Sylvari my second favorite race (a close second to asura).

- Studying for all three asuran colleges at the same time? Check.

Dropped, since it was later said she studied them in sequence, not enrolling in each and doing them simultaneously.

- Joining the Inquest when they consider sylvari little more than kindling? (Zojja’s words, not mine) Check.

And plotted to be a guinea pig for the machine we find later? Uncheck.

- Creating lore-ignoring alliances whose factions had no reason to work together? Check.

Do you mean the Aetherblades, who pretty much have reasons to work together? Or the Molten Alliance, which was preying on their weakness and adding a dash of deceit? Or the Clockwork/Steam alliance which . . .

Oh, no, you probably mean Toxic Alliance. Which depends, since the only slice of potential motivation? Is of questionable value canonicity if you want to be persnickety.

- Being behind the Thaumanova disaster? Check.

Was she behind it, or merely present at the time and going “I told you so”? I still haven’t been able to get into the Fractal for that.

- Being able to know things that only certain characters know, with no explanation as to how she knows them? Check.

You should start a list, because I’m fairly certain with what we can glean she has ways of knowing things now.

Edit: They could’ve even brought Kudu back from the dead and he’d have been a better villain!

. . . no. No, he was just terrible. A smug little snake in over his head and not realizing it at all.

Lord Kuru.3685:

When the primary source of content is Achievements and Collections, it’s safe to say the no grind philosophy is dead.

Hey, look at that, Titles for Hall of Monuments is waving hello!

:)

Nilkemia.8507:

If only we could retcon her out of existence. If only.

It’d be better if she was just FIXED. She could have actually, really worked . . . if it weren’t for the uneven nature of LS1

Because it was pretty much cried foul over the nodes being sold not being “worth it”. So, take it from the Gem Store and drop it into the chests, make them tradeable, and there you go.

Not like you really need them. A couple places I know of can generate quite a bit of Platinum and such. Not to mention Mithril and Elder Wood . . . Orr is a great place to search, especially Malchor’s Leap.

Conncept.7638:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Conncept.7638:

Rasimir.6239:

Excuse me, but if you need ascended gear for the content you listet, then I’m sorry to say but that’s not a problem of power creep but a simple problem of l2p.

No I’m afraid it is a learn to think issue on your part. All of that content has a win condition based on harsh and unforgiving failure timers, if you don’t bring max stats you are contributing to the content failing, if enough people don’t the content is guaranteed to fail. Just ask TTS how many people they bring along in exotic gear to their triwurm runs, the answer you will get is absolutely none.

At least one, right here.

I’ve participated in TTS events (in exotics) and I’m not even a guild member. There is a big difference between the people they make sure are there and the people they get once the megaserver has shuffled the deck.

Well, you did say “absolutely”, so we’re both exceptions to the absolute.

Considering I was functioning pretty close to December 2012 with only half exotics and only had any Ascended at all starting September 2013? Yeah, pretty sure I can say even saying exotics are a necessary part of participating in something is a minor crock of dolyak droppings.

. . . and I’m not even in optimal gear types. There’s a considerable amount of Celestial going on right now in my build and everyone knows that’s below sub-optimal and right near “better off in the wastebin”. Still do okay, and can sometimes even not fall down and die.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mental Paradox.3845:

Guys, please. You know how this game caters to the (mentally) lowest common denominator. They are never ever going to include something complex like languages, that might “confuse” those poor new players (who have no business in 80 zones, imo).

If it caters to the mental lowest common denominator, then why are there things like the Orrian Runestone around? Or the New Krytan alphabet? Both of which can be deciphered?

They’re simple substitution ciphers, however. They are not true languages. It’s just English with non-Latin characters for the alphabet.

I’m just curious how that fits into “mental lowest common denominator” since those are the types who don’t even attempt to do even those. They just look up the translations on a wiki.

I wasn’t arguing for or against the mental lowest common denominator. I was merely pointing out that MP was saying that actual languages won’t be made (regardless of his claims for why) and what you were countering with was not actual languages, but ciphers.

So you weren’t really countering him.

Not the point on ciphers being likely, but “mental lowest common denominator” . . . I do take exception to that. Mostly because he set the bar too high.

Conncept.7638:

Rasimir.6239:

Excuse me, but if you need ascended gear for the content you listet, then I’m sorry to say but that’s not a problem of power creep but a simple problem of l2p.

No I’m afraid it is a learn to think issue on your part. All of that content has a win condition based on harsh and unforgiving failure timers, if you don’t bring max stats you are contributing to the content failing, if enough people don’t the content is guaranteed to fail. Just ask TTS how many people they bring along in exotic gear to their triwurm runs, the answer you will get is absolutely none.

At least one, right here.

Derigar.7810:

Gaile Gray.6029:

I’ll see if we can give more than a wink and a nudge about this sometime soon.

I was thinking last night when I did one of the vistas — yes, I can’t get enough of vistas! — that I’m so looking forward to LA returning to its former beauty. On the other hand, I know how much the devs have on their respective plates, so I’m trying to be real patient.

Would be a very fun Living Patch if we could have world events that would fix parts of Lion’s Arch. Efforts would count server-wide and after X-resources are gathered or X-events are completed, we would have restored a part of Lion’s Arch.

Such a world event could last for months if they choose so, and thus the community would choose the rate at which LA would get restored back to its former glory!

Heck, schedule it for a downtime when nothing else is going on. Start with repairing Fort Marriner (yes, the waypoint too).

Belzebu.3912:

Koviko.3248:

I got the feeling the the Languages thing was going to be like the Al Bhed in Final Fantasy. They speak and whether or not you can translate what they are saying depends on how much of their language you’ve learned. So I think we’ll also physically see in the world the result of our learning (or lack of).

Al Bhed in FF 10 is exactly what crossed my mind when I heard about the Languages in the Lore Mastery.

Which was a more complicated cipher, though it looked simple of one letter substituted to another. But each word could be pronounced despite the ciphering, making . . . indeed, a language.

Not as robust one as Quenya, mind you. But then the creator of that one was armed with the expertise to do such.

Still prefer Sithi or Nabbani.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mental Paradox.3845:

Guys, please. You know how this game caters to the (mentally) lowest common denominator. They are never ever going to include something complex like languages, that might “confuse” those poor new players (who have no business in 80 zones, imo).

If it caters to the mental lowest common denominator, then why are there things like the Orrian Runestone around? Or the New Krytan alphabet? Both of which can be deciphered?

They’re simple substitution ciphers, however. They are not true languages. It’s just English with non-Latin characters for the alphabet.

I’m just curious how that fits into “mental lowest common denominator” since those are the types who don’t even attempt to do even those. They just look up the translations on a wiki.

Technically we’re not told to wait another six months. There’s no ETA on when Heart of Thorns is getting released, nor is there an ETA on when this fix goes live. It could be next week, could be six months, could be six years.

Lifestealer.4910:

Ascended is the one of the worse things to happen to this game just next to the trait change.

No, see, from polling in a totally scientific and fair fashion the worst things to happen to this game, in reverse order:

- Ascended
- Living Story
- Scarlet
- Being released.

Needs to be rebuilt to be more than a shantytown as it was pre-Scarlet.

Seriously.

Zero Day.2594:

ColinJohanson.2394:

EgonVenkman.1907:

No matter what current method chosen, it is still light years away from your very comment that by level 80, players should have the best statistical loot in the game.

Yeah to be clear on that one, as we’ve said before: we made that statement before the game launched, ultimately realized we didn’t think it was the right decision for Gw2 – and changed our mind. I fully own making this statement, the day I said it was our plan – our lead designer decided it was the wrong direction for the game after we stated it, and we changed direction.

Sometimes plans will change, I can assure you it’s never our intention to intentionally mislead/trick anyone, that’s simply the nature of development: from time to time things we say at one point later have to change.

The most satisfying read in this whole thread.

---

So white knights, that battled me before, on pages 1-2… what do you say now?

Well, I wasn’t battling you at all, but I say you really need to find a better thing to do than calling out people for the sake of being “right”. Priorities, man.

Also, still pointing out that lovely pink gear is perhaps one of the bigger wastes of time and effort if you’re not planning on delving Fractals. Much more worth it to make the parts and sell em on the Trading Post.

. . . yes, you can flip crafting components for profit. It’s probably the best thing you can do with them.

Pretty much Tachenon.

Devata.6589:

I had the same with a special weapon I wanted. I needed charged lodestones for them but the problem is there is no really viable way to get charged lodestones. And with not viable I do not mean easy! Best way to get them is.. yeah you guessed that right, grind gold and buy them.

Always the easiest way to acquire things, when they can be acquired that way, is to simply apply Gold to the problem and watch the barriers fall away. It was true in GW1, true here, and it was true back in my EQ days.

If you can apply money, there is a certain value where you can indeed purchase whatever your heart desires, should it be purchasable that way.

munkiman.3068:

All that is fair. I enjoyed most of the content and regularly added and improved challenges to the original. Later on i was quite happy i went for titles, simply for the rewards they offered in GW2. I also avoided titles i wasn’t particularly interested in. Although now, with achievements there are direct rewards for doing them far beyond just bragging rights. Not that you HAVE to do them, but you do, if you want the limited goodies you get from them, making them feel less optional.

Yes, which is where I was getting at. But . . .

I mean that the comparison between the 2 doesn’t hold up all that well. There was hardly a cash shop (and certainly not one you could use in-game currency for), there was no global economy to balance and the focus was turning out more content in shorter spans of time, to get people to buy the new campaigns and eventually the expansion.

This comparison is not one I was making. I was making a comparison in the experience, which honestly still is the same. Players run the economy now through the Trading Post, but it’s still the same as before where highly desired items have high price tags which normal people would have to grind almost ceaselessly before they can purchase them. Miniatures which were limited . . . specific weapon skins . . . things which couldn’t be traded via the in-game traders found their way to Spamadan. And lest you forget, Armbraces were a thing (up until a bunch got duped).

One thing i’m pretty sure of, is the rewards in this game are highly impacted from not only the model of payment, but the game economy, both which they have yet to find a balance with. That makes it feel grindy to some. Whether or not folks found the original grindy or not, is kind of irrelevant.

No, it’s rather relevant through one minor thing: both games were made by the same company, and both do a rather decent job of mitigating how much time you need to spend blazing through content to “the fun stuff”. Though I use the quote marks because I never really found UW/FoW/DoA . . . fun.

Mental Paradox.3845:

Guys, please. You know how this game caters to the (mentally) lowest common denominator. They are never ever going to include something complex like languages, that might “confuse” those poor new players (who have no business in 80 zones, imo).

If it caters to the mental lowest common denominator, then why are there things like the Orrian Runestone around? Or the New Krytan alphabet? Both of which can be deciphered?

Mental Paradox.3845:

Why is everyone stuck in this endless debate about whether Mursaat are “good” or “bad”, while there’s a fracking OTHER PALE TREE right there in the image?

You are never ever going to agree on this Mursaat debate. Humans are miserable at debate, and few people ever change their minds, even in the face of overwhelming evidence. Give up!

I don’t know. Humans are wonderful things, and the human mind is ever so much more wonderful both in its resilience to change and its ability to process new data to integrate it into what it already knows.

Besides, you’re a bright person. You know as well as I do, the debate is not about the other person having their mind changed. It’s about the witnesses, the listeners, and what they think. Sometimes it might even be less about that, and more about a debate required to strengthen what is already known with new perspectives, new ideas.

munkiman.3068:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

munkiman.3068:

If you’re not particularly interested in cosmetics, achievements, or toys and just want to play the game, then it pretty much has 0 grind. This is where i think the game has fallen down hard, just playing the game needs a constant feed of content, otherwise it’s grind away.

Pretty much what I found GW1 to be after I finished the dungeons/storyline . . . nothing but grind for cosmetics, bragging rights titles, and maybe some money in there.

I actually see no reason to make that correlation really. I personally enjoyed the original for 7 years. The PvP was more fun to me, the meta changed much faster as well. I would even venture to say, the content was actually more challenging. But, it was a much different game. It wasn’t a grind for me, since i enjoyed the content and the challenges.

I see plenty of reasons to make the correlation. “Lucky” title track, “Legendary Defender of Ascalon” title track, and the “Gamer” title track. I’m sure this is not at all related to “grind” . . .

Seriously. I walked away from the game after finishing the content I liked because all that was left was stuff I didn’t like, or the grind of title chasing. Why do you think I don’t heap shame on people who say they’re leaving because it’s not fun for them anymore here? I reached that point in the previous game, so I understand it.

. . . similarly now. There’s grind, but you don’t have to chase it if you don’t want to. And if playing the game gets stale, well, you can always cut back on the time you spend playing it either significantly or almost entirely. Nobody’s going to suddenly find themselves behind the power curve because they left for a few weeks, a few months . . . a year.

See, this is all the more reason to make sure Rytlock doesn’t make it back alive.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Countess Aire.9410:

How do we know that Maguuma is the only area. The Crystal Desert is just beyond. We won’t know till closer to release. Looking for further information to be released.

Maguuma is <— way. Crystal desert is —-————————————————————————————-> way. Just sayin’.

Yes, but what happens if it’s like in GW1 where one moment we’re in Kryta and the next we’re on a boat going to the desert because some creepy necromancer (who is totally not a villain) tells us we have to.

I think the “groundwork” was in some of the systems introduced last year. The Collections, adding items to your Home Instance via clickables, Wardrobe, Wallet . . . Guild Missions, non-standard currency in “Perseverence”, Story Journal . . .

I think it’s that list more than anything else.

Oh, really wish they’d go back and clean up the Achievements tab. Again.

munkiman.3068:

If you’re not particularly interested in cosmetics, achievements, or toys and just want to play the game, then it pretty much has 0 grind. This is where i think the game has fallen down hard, just playing the game needs a constant feed of content, otherwise it’s grind away.

Pretty much what I found GW1 to be after I finished the dungeons/storyline . . . nothing but grind for cosmetics, bragging rights titles, and maybe some money in there.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

draxynnic.3719:

I don’t think anyone is expecting ArenaNet to actually devote the resources to make a genuine language. At best we’re probably going to see a substitution cipher.

They already did have one, back in Eye of the North. Check out the whole questline around Kerrsh.

That is not a language, that is something translatable through a substitution cypher, which is what drax is getting at…

I was agreeing, having a cipher was done before.

SilverWF.4789:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Sure there is ascended, but that’s only like 5% better than exotic so you don’t really need it.

You are absolutely need it if you want to fight another players at the WvW.

HAH. . . . that’s priceless.

No. No you don’t. You need to be a warrior or thief Then you can kill to your black, shriveled, lifeless heart’s content.

Pockets.3201:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Pockets.3201:

The vast majority of the Silverwastes, the most recent area they gave us to keep us busy, is grind.

Grind events to get badges to get extractors to grind breach/vinewrath bosses for parts/carapace boxes for the collections.

Sure, its optional, but this is the content they want us to do.

Technically, the whole game is grind if you look at it that way. Grind events to get the stuff or the experience, or the achievements. Grind WvW for its stuff. Grind dungeons for their stuff. Grind anything you want for gold so you can buy more stuff you don’t need.

. . . honestly, it’s thankfully less of a grind than real life is.

“Its not as bad as real life” isn’t a shining endorsement of the activities.

No, nor is it a serious comparison. Take it as one at your own peril.

Until this DXP weekend I’ve never used events for leveling. I’d just complete maps as I played, hit events if they happened nearby and weren’t annoying ones. There was no grinding really, I leveled no matter what I was doing. And that was through five of my level 80 characters.

I don’t WvW, so I can’t say much there, and I rarely do dungeons as I don’t have many people to do them with, and find much of the gear from them ugly.

Hell, I despise player run economies so I don’t even use gold that much. I’ve never had more than 200g in my pocket at once since launch.

I’ve manged to avoid most of the grind. Until the Silverwastes anyway.

Cause really, what else am I going to do at this point?

Well, that sums up my time in GW1 after finishing just about everything – might as well work on Vanquishing because what the heck else is there to do?