Guild Wars 2

HandOfKane.5409:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Should we actually count the posts where people said things which were demonstrated to be falsified (either through ignorance or perhaps ulterior motive) about what the NPE was preventing them from doing?

There was a fair amount of that going on too. I know, I ran into it and created a character solely to check it out.

Fine then, count them. Let us know the updated count (using what you consider misinformation, of course). Don’t be surprised if it doesn’t change very much.

Now, we can continue to grasp at straws and split hairs over whether or not posts that claim to just dislike the NPE rather than outright hate it really count as disliking it, or we can actually discuss changes that will help the NPE.

Why on Tyria would I want to do any of that except the last bit? I have zero interest in counting, or trying to make a vote tally. That’s your problem. Mine is how there are the following issues:

- The NPE combined with Trait rework has generated lessened interest in actually working up new characters of mine. The NPE on its own isn’t terrible, as I played through the first fifteen levels and thought it interesting . . . but I really wanted to go back to my first/main character. It’s not interesting enough to keep me, but it is nicer than the other MMO I started up about the same time NPE hit.

- The Trait rework, on the other hand, have me gun-shy to start fully new characters since they won’t have the near-full suite unlocked. This means “nope, only existing characters”. I’m of mixed emotions on what’s coming for it, but this isn’t the topic for that.

- A fair amount of people were presenting things which were demonstrably false about the NPE and the limitations. Either knowingly being misinformative, or in ignorance of the actual effects and parroting what they heard. This was done in map chat, and posts, and on Reddit. That’s a problem since it meant more people making decisions based on bad information.

- The NPE is probably here to stay. It might get tweaked here and there, but as a whole, it’s not probably going anywhere. It is possible it might get jettisoned . . . much like it’s possible to get a Precursor drop from something in Queensdale.

As such, if you want to discuss it, fine. You want to talk about what absolute nightsoil it is? Sure, go ahead. I couldn’t care less.

Try to use the bad information and terrible "polling data’ along the lines of exit pollsters? Yeah, I’m going to call you on that.

Bubi.7942:

You are aware that you can convert (some with a lot of hassle – karma) these into gold, right?

Yup.

. . . but that reply pretty much leads to exactly where the frustration sets in. Why bother having other currencies if it all flows into one anyway?

Honestly I’m busy looking for good medium armor which isn’t a coat.

I don’t need more Laurels, I’d prefer more things on which to use these currencies piling up.

Karma – Even after going for 250 Obsidian Shards because I wanted to, and Temple Armor on my new 80 Warrior . . . woo . . . still swimming in the stuff.

Laurels – I do not want, nor do I need, anything out of the menu. It’s nice I can buy Season 1 Rewards though. Too bad I got most of those the first time around. Hmmm.

Badges of Honor – I’m not kidding, I don’t ever use these. Ever.

Dungeon Tokens – Meh, could use stuff in the lists which isn’t related to special armors or the Legendary gifts. Really.

Guild Commendations – I still don’t get what these really are for which is so special. Eh.

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

I think a lot of people did change their views. I know some of them personally.

Day 1 you get a lot of off the cuff reactions. A good number of those reactions were from people who admittedly never even tried it. That’s good research right there.

I’m against this thing based on what everyone else is saying.

Those who tried it often didn’t see what the big deal was.

Unverifiable anecdotal evidence vs actual numbers that someone did the legwork to get.

I think I’ll go with the latter.

Should we actually count the posts where people said things which were demonstrated to be falsified (either through ignorance or perhaps ulterior motive) about what the NPE was preventing them from doing?

There was a fair amount of that going on too. I know, I ran into it and created a character solely to check it out.

To be less politically charged about it, the gold sinks keep inflation in check, in theory. I’ve been in games where there was no reliable gold sink . . . yeah. Yeah . . .

I’d rather have the occasional gold sink for people to decide to risk or not on their whims rather than “10k gold for a Lodestone is a steal”.

Mad Rasputin.7809:

It definitely includes the small crater lava pits during the last fight.

Best just to avoid them altogether while trying for this achievement.

I thought I did – do they “count” while not lit too? If so I might just have to take drastic measures.

I don’t know why, but three runs and three times not dropping in lava or even touching it, and this achievement refuses to unlock for me. Is this bugged?

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

They even added asian looking builds at the Crown Pavilion now. You know, that place that used to be the canthan district but got scrapped?

I heard it used to be an asura embassy until they wound up overclocking some golem contraption and burned kitten down to the center of the world. Queen Jennah hushed it up with this story about “Canthan District” like we would forget. Fight the lies! Never forget.

It’s actually pretty funny if you think about it. They placed asian buildings in a place that got scrapped pre-release because it had asian buildings.

Like I said, not what I heard.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

They even added asian looking builds at the Crown Pavilion now. You know, that place that used to be the canthan district but got scrapped?

I heard it used to be an asura embassy until they wound up overclocking some golem contraption and burned kitten down to the center of the world. Queen Jennah hushed it up with this story about “Canthan District” like we would forget. Fight the lies! Never forget.

Riku.4821:

@Tobias don’t lie it’s 200 gold. :P

It’s okay, I’m an Elonian prince in exile and if you loan me the 500 I’ll give you back 750.

Azrael.4960:

The vast majority of Ranger builds were Bow builds. Trappers saw limited use outside of certain dungeons. I’m excluding gimmicky builds like touch rangers

You’re forgetting Bunny Thumper too I’m not sure if it’s mixed up in my head with the “IWAY! Ranger” or that was just an offshoot.

Honestly, I could still rattle off my skill build. Crossfire, Savage Shot, Poison Tip Signet, “I am the strongest!”, Broad Head Arrow, Flesh of My Flesh, Comfort Animal, Never Rampage Alone. 10 Beast Mastery, 11+3 Expertise, 1 Wilderness, 10+2 Marksmanship.

It was kinda terrible. However, it worked like a charm for most of the PvE

Gilosean.3805:

So I was listening to the regular POI, and heard this:

“unlocking a waypoint after progressing a certain amount”
“unlocking NPC interactions”
“unlocking resource farms”

Does anyone else feel this could be horrific BS? After the screaming over progression-gating traits, skill-lots and other features, they’re going to add more progression-gating?

I mean, ‘unlocking’ waypoints could just mean getting them uncontested, but it doesn’t sound like that to me. It sounds like people need to progress the meta event for the map to be accessible.

We have that now. It’s Straits of Devastation, more or less. And some people really like the design, considering . . .

The new maps are going to be all 100% Silverwaste style, so I’m bracing myself for fights about people being on the map and but participating in the meta events. We’ve seen enough of that with champ trains and Silverwastes/Dry Top. Some people like wandering, or finding interesting NPC dialogue, or taking absurd screenshots! Sometimes people like doing meta events at one point and not another. But if we have to deal with the meta events to get access to the map, apparently. Why is ANet building an entire expansion solely for a single playstyle?

Are you sure about that?

• Zones shown seem totally designed around group play. People playing at offhours are SOL.

I doubt it. Megaservers should cover that except for maybe a small period at around 5am PST?

Wolfey.3407:

Riku.4821:

Good luck wolfey!!

You too, as well as everyone else who was selected.
If you ever have questions, feel free to hit me up in game or on here :P

Can I borrow 500 gold so I can get Golden?

No, just kidding. See you in game!

Einlanzer.1627:

Part of the problem with both the old system and the new one is that there are simply too many levels for what you get from obtaining them.

At the end of the day, having 80 levels was kind of foolish. 40 would have made far more sense.

Honestly, I am curious about how they had a framework for “no levels” as in the early builds I heard about.

Ashen.2907:

Good luck to all of the specialists.

Echoed, seconded, and supported with the hope this works out.

Azrael.4960:

Ranger attacks and preparations all required a bow.

Not entirely correct. Preparations did not necessarily require a bow; Apply Poison did not and I used it on a couple classes for fun. (Poison Tip Signet sometimes was better due to no Energy cost.)

And some of the “more effective” Ranger builds used Traps instead of weapons. When looking at it that way, weapon wasn’t important at all

stale.9785:

Easiest solution to the trait issue, and most of the NPE issues:

Reduce level cap to 20.

You have a weird definition of “easy”.

Devata.6589:

Losing what argument? That there is grind, that people feel there is grind, that that is a problem? That if people who like to hunt down cosmetics run into a grind? That is not even something you can ‘lose’, thats just a reality and that’s all I have been saying. Not much to lose (or to win for that matter).

You really take what I’m saying way too literal.

The thing is, you have always had your own parallel conversation going on, jumping from one subject to the other and why I still don’t understand. It really always did feel like you where mad because somebody did talk bad about your baby.

Hey, that baby is perfectly fine and if you knew little Lady Callahan you’d understand. Oh, wait, were you talking about me treating the game like my baby or my dog?

I view the game as the neighbor’s kid who isn’t all that bright but means well. And who I need to take back to the parents now and then and go “you need to talk to him about some certain subjects, and how pulling my girl’s hair isn’t a known sign of affection, okay? And please, I don’t want to buy his chocolates for his school so here’s $20 for you to stop it, thanks”.

I mean seriously what is your point? You feel there is no grind and so nobody should? You don’t want people considering GW2 grindy? You said so much yet nothing at all.

Now, seriously? I say the same thing to you, really. I’m not sure why you feel the need to grind the axe on this. Was it because you feel you were lied to, when nobody ever made you a promise? Did GW2 kill your cat or something? Did they get caught in a compromising photo with your daughter who is 14?

I’ve made where I stand clear. At least twice, because Ashen and naiasonod have had conversations with me in parallel about this topic and others. I’ve said no more than four times what it is I consider grindy in the game, and heck, at least two people agreed. Yourself included.

And, I’ll add in, I’ve pointed out why I consider “GW2 is grindy because X is grindy” faulty beyond the surface. I’ll go into it again if you like, but I think I’ll have trouble articulating it after so many repetitions of trying to get you to listen to what I say rather than what you thought I said.

So I don’t know why you find it hard to figure out what my “problem” is here. Maybe you should take a few hours, a couple deep breaths, and looking into a mirror to practice your next post before you start it.

Best wishes! I’m off to go practice making risotto which doesn’t turn into mush.

Galphar.3901:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Ashen.2907:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Oh yes, my ranger/ritualist was utterly fearsome with a scythe.

I ran a Ranger/Rit with a staff in kitten riodically. By the time the enemy team realized that our time had a healer it was generally too late.

I think it went over your head

Ranger/Ritualist with a scythe.

. . . look, at that point I was doing FA simply for the Faction. Then turning it into amber. And then selling the amber.

I was also bored, and tired of seeing the same people all the time losing at 2am. I decided “eh, whatever”. Frankly, it looked pretty nice. Did . . . not . . . really work out.

Wouldn’t it have been R/D to have a scythe? Dervish were the profession that used scythes and Ritualist had staff/scepter/focus

I’m waiting for the proverbial penny to drop for you, too

Ashen.2907:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Oh yes, my ranger/ritualist was utterly fearsome with a scythe.

I ran a Ranger/Rit with a staff in kitten riodically. By the time the enemy team realized that our time had a healer it was generally too late.

I think it went over your head

Ranger/Ritualist with a scythe.

. . . look, at that point I was doing FA simply for the Faction. Then turning it into amber. And then selling the amber.

I was also bored, and tired of seeing the same people all the time losing at 2am. I decided “eh, whatever”. Frankly, it looked pretty nice. Did . . . not . . . really work out.

Tachenon.5270:

Bonus: (I asked this one a loooong time ago): if a sylvari drinks colored water, will it ‘colorize’ their veins?

If I make them drink a liquid which fluoresces under blacklight . . . does that mean it works on them too?

. . . could I serve drinks and thus start an impromptu “vegetables only” rave?!

Oh. Oh my.

Devata.6589:

I started what? Every reaction was did seem more like some angry yelling kid then somebody wanting to talk about the issue ad hand.

You started the talk about cosmetic appearances and how they were too expensive for you. And I suppose you might have had a point somewhere, except then you slid into this problem of disagreeing aesthetic sense, and then finally trying to dismiss it as a threadjack when you started that.

And now trying to repaint it all as some angry five-year old.

Really it comes off more as the nine-year old trying to pretend they didn’t bring up a subject when they started losing an argument. But then, that comparison is unfair. One of the two being compared is brighter than that.

That ghost pup looks like Goedulf . . .

Devata.6589:

I always talk about currency grind mainly gold. Sorry to break your bad attempt ad being a jack.

I prefer Jane, honestly.

Of course, you started this one.

Galphar.3901:

The reason for the latest “rework” is because the screwed everything up so bad when they changed Traits last April.

Or it could be because they finally found the Mordrem pods in the basement and chased off the impostors who made that unpopular change and can’t admit that happened.

Oh yes, my ranger/ritualist was utterly fearsome with a scythe.

That describes almost anything they do: “It can either rock awesomesauce or be terribad”.

It was into year five or six, when I went “you know, I’ve been avoiding spending time in the PvP parts of the game for five years, maybe I should give it a try seriously”.

Also known as “I need those 3 HoM points”.

Ranger. “Why can’t I just quit you?”

I mean, almost every game it either stinks or is remarkably requiring skill and true dedication to break through the stink until it suddenly becomes awesome again. (EQ, Wood Elf ranger with Blessed Faydark Thunderbolt and specialized arrows to out-range raid-level AoEs . . . and be able to get five buddies who were also rangers and get it from 10% to 1% in 20 seconds.)

Reanne.5462:

Red you win, blue you lose – rng – i miss gw1….

You mean the game where I could enter RA and be told “let them win we’re <insert color> this time” . . . or when JQ was a match with two human players and three confirmed bots plus three more AFKers all match?

I really don’t miss that.

Ashen.2907:

I don’t doubt that a lot of people will disagree with my taste in weapon/armor skins. I know that some agree as well.

Were you one of the Warriors in GW1 running around with Gladiator Prestige Armor dyed pink?

True, merely thinking along my own lines and using what exists to know something is possible to code in the current game iteration.

Especially with how they described Masteries. I was thinking of saying there were Trait Levels earned from Skill Point Challenges on the map but I don’t know if that’d end up too clunky. Possibly would also splitting a new event type “Trait Event” or something . . .

Devata.6589:

Ashen.2907:

Devata.6589:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

“I’ve looked at many equippable cosmetic items”

Of course there is the thing that people are usually more interested in the better looking ones and then your 10g idea kinda go’s out of the door.

Not that it really matters, biggest problem was that everything was based on gold in stead of a direct way remember. And even if those items would all be 10 gold (what isn’t the case, whenever I see one I like it usually is well over 100G) the problem would still be there, while maybe less annoying, the hunt for items would still be destroyed and grinding gold would still be the only option to get all of them.

This is where it gets interesting because all of the best looking skins in game are very inexpensive. Not one of them costs more than 10-20 gold. Most of them cannot be purchased with gold or in the gem shop, they have to be earned by playing specific content such as specific dungeons for specific armor.

Every single 100 gold+ skin in the game is either flat out ugly, tacky, or a joke.

All opinion of course.

Sure but I have a feeling a lot of people would disagree with you. That is also one of the reasons those skins are expensive.. because people want them. You are lucky if you have a taste for the cheaper skins.

A lot of people disagreeing with Ashen, or myself, does not mean we are wrong. Especially on a case built on aesthetic appreciation.

If you like, though, I could start a list for you of things I have looked at on the TP and said “sure, that’s something I like” which has been under 10g to purchase. Just for the skin and not the functionality.

Not to mention it is actually cheaper to get my favorite set of armor as it requires Karma, and not Gold. But that would mean you’d have to agree there is a currency other than Gold or Gems in the game, so I won’t talk about those

. . . oops. I did anyway.

I’d like to suggest, again in this thread after its sister thread was shunted off to the nunnery, something in particular about Traits. Especially in line with the new cousin of the family “Masteries” being added?

Add an extra “Traits Experience” experience bar bound to one Trait line, and as you kill your XP gain is mirrored 1:1 into this bar. Keep Trait points earned at the same rate as currently – no need to try to work this up again. But the Traits Experience bar fills at an accelerated rate compared to level so you are earning “Trait Bonuses” at a faster rate than you level. (How much faster, I can’t calculate reliably, but 3:1 might not be a bad idea.)

You unlock Traits and now you choose one of the five Trait Lines to work on. When you have it “focused” you get automatically the Minor (first set) Trait Mastery active for you. You accumulate experience towards choosing one Major Trait Mastery (the ones with roman numerals on them) to unlock permanently. When you have Trait Points you can spend them in any line and get the benefits of anything you have unlocked (including the Minor Traits).

So what does this mean, stepping back from the mechanics? Your Guardian wants to learn a Virtues Major Trait (“Master of Consecrations”). To earn it you click to focus yourself earning TXP on the Virtues line; when it fills you can choose it from the menu to unlock permanently. Now you can switch to the Zeal line and you can keep “Master of Consecrations” active, as well as the statistic bonuses, from spending Trait Points on it.

Of course, you don’t want to grind experience? No problem! Take the current unlock system and blend it down a bit – Group Events offer a free unlock for the line you have equipped.

Ashen.2907:

Absolutely the best reason to request a feature addition. I completely agree. The game exists for us to have fun (and for the company to make money). Something that increases the fun factor, becomes more appealing to players who might then be more inclined to play and spend money, is a good thing…..

….so long as the potential revenue increase offsets production costs and potential revenue loss.

Or, as well, you don’t wind up making your game into something you don’t even want to look at anymore because of the bad taste left in your mouth.

Let’s be clear here – the company does want to make money. But they also want to please their customers/players with what they do, and try to please a majority with a change rather than a minority. (I did say try.) If they fail, then there is a good chance they will lose customers/players who will not be coming back.

Therefore it is important, perhaps even imperative, to realize what topics are simply a losing choice in the long run due to the impact on the community. You only get so many before the community goes from a healthy pool of people who would happily give a little extra money for goodies . . . to the much shallower number of hardened core who are only interested in your game so far as what they want and are willing to threaten killing the game via boycott if they don’t get their way.

There’s a niche for games which have open-world PvP, or even arenas for such without an existing PvP mode. There’s a niche for incredibly casual MMOs which don’t put your elbow up behind your head and demand your lunch money so you can do anything interesting.

These two niches are not the same niche, and a game trying to straddle them? Is going to fall off and hurt something.

aerial.7021:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

In fact, according to many folks, rushing to the top is why Ascended wound up becoming something the developers put effort into in order to appease “content locusts”. Not the theory I’m working under, but there’s only the word of developers to go on. And who should believe them?

No absolutely not, I’d believe them if they came and told the truth which would be “we needed more revenue to support the staff and expand for the forthcoming expansion”, that I’d believe.

But we both know that’s not the truth, so why should we believe them if they lied to satisfy paranoia?

The reason why I can’t buy anything that they say like the above in-regards to your mention of “content locusts” is because when I look at the forum I’ve never seen an out pouring of human pitchforks at dawn that enacts the changes they’ve made (which appears to be a requirement), an example of this is the gem>gold changes they made where they removed the manual entry button I firmly believe that if it had not been for the publicity ‘outside’ of these hallowed forums that ‘change’ would never have happened.

You’re welcome to believe what you want but I’ve seen no less than four times the forum and player populace has forced them to completely change things. Four. Not including the Gem Store.

And there are at least ten other items which were added to the game quietly which were suggested here. Without pitchforks at dawn. So, I’m afraid your conclusion doesn’t hold up with it being solely about the bottom line.

. . . and being truthful, it probably wasn’t solely about the content locusts either. I have my suspicions it was a larger goal to try seeing how badly another tier might be received if it was made with varying methods to acquire rather than RNG love. I suspect it got tied into all the systems it did due to needing it to be put in somehow.

But this is getting off topic, entirely. Let’s just agree they compromised on their position on the “original vision” with Ascended (“Compromised” in this case meaning not gave in, but tried to find a middle ground) and it was a mild failure of implementation.

I don’t have the cash either I go without instead normally food, I’m of the same opinion at you personally.

RNG sure gets thrown around a lot, I learnt that lesson a long time ago don’t go down paths that are bound by RNG, like keys/chests unless the game gives me one for free I ain’t opening those chests.

Eh, I go without “food”. I use quotation marks because I’m relatively sure Orville Reddenbacher doesn’t make food but some space-age food-like substance which happens to taste like caramel-coated popcorn. I choose to say no to that and spend money which would be used on that with Gems.

I also spend money on Gems which would be spent on Magic cards, or specific ones, during times when I don’t really feel like buying a rectangular piece of cardboard for $35.

In short, I have a hobby/junkfood budget. I borrow from that if I want Gems. I think I’ve bought gems on average once every four months, and not in increments greater than $20.

. . . and I spent most of it on things other than Keys. I should go back and count, but I’m pretty sure it’s 1/4 of the gems I spent went into Keys.

Crafting Boosters, I don’t even craft anything unless I have one active otherwise it just takes to long I tried grinding out one manually -(never again)-.

It should be better, it should be entirely avoidable by way of a gem store item that would max 1 rank in crafting, honestly I’d like one that maxed them all in one hit but judging by how things work in the gem store, bank tabs and so forth it would be better not to pushes ones failing luck.

I don’t like the idea of Gem Store being used to advance anything. You mentioned P2W and this smacks of exactly that.

Devata.6589:

“because there is some form of grind in GW2, it therefore is grindy”. It;s grindy for the people who run into that grind yes. What seems to be a lot of people considering the game is known for it’s grind.

It’s also known for Trahearne stealing all the player’s glory, in some circles, which is something which did not happen. It’s known for a broken, broken, broken finale with Zhaitan even though it was broken on release and patched to be playable. It’s known for trying to kill World of Warcraft, even though it was specifically stated that was not the goal at all. It’s known for the “fact” Piken Square and Tarnished Coast are/were dens of debauchery with “RP” in the loosest terms being done in the open with incredibly lurid and graphic descriptions of acts which should not happen in a T rated game.

In other words, it’s known for a lot of things which are not true.

“Some of these may be actual issues. Like the lack of Cantha, perhaps. "
So the difference between people suggesting / asking for a new type of content is the same as having a problem with current content. Again you logic makes no sense.

My sarcasm, you mean. I wonder how you can’t tell the difference between sarcasm and seriousness.

“should be developed from the forums. I mean, if that was the case we’d have to agree mounts are a fantastic idea.” Sit I say from the forums? No I diden’t but they sure should listen to feedback.

Does “listen to feedback” mean “do exactly what that feedback says”? Because that seems to be what you’re equating here.

Oow and about those mounts.. The hang glider sure have many simularities with mounts.

So does the riding broom and the digging tool. In a technical sense. What is your point, exactly?

“I never actually said “it’s only grind if you need it”." No thats true, not litteraly but you did use the argument to basically act as if the grind wasen’t a problem because of that. What was more my point.

I didn’t say it, so I did not use the argument. You made that argument up so you could fight against it rather than what I was saying. And you still are claiming I am holding to a position which I wasn’t doing in the first place while admitting it wasn’t my position.

. . . we talked before about “logical instability”, are you sure you’re on the right side of that line?

"

Ascended is grindy as heck.
It also is either “not mandatory” or “not BiS if downleveling”. Someone did the math once and showed it might be better to have an Exotic in there instead of Ascended in certain cases.

"

Yup, that looks like my post and what I wrote. I didn’t say it wasn’t a grind because it wasn’t mandatory. Thank you for making my point just above, sir/madam.

Oow and about the card game. GW2 also has some items only availible other ways. that still does not change the fact that when seeing an item in GW2 it’s most likely not in another way obtainable then by grinding gold while in that other game it most likely is a item you can hunt down.

It’s most likely something in GW2 which costs less than 100 gold. I’ve looked at many equippable cosmetic items, do you know what I noticed? It usually falls at under 10 Gold to have many skins except for three groups: those which drop from Champion Bags and are Collectable, skins released with seasonal events . . . and Precursors.

I could, pretty easily, take one month and track down most of those skins with luck of drop rate or actively afford two dozen of the choice items.

The two items I’ve linked in the other game, I . . . can’t just go out and earn. There’s actually a fair amount of purely cosmetic items which aren’t earned any other way. Or through the farm/grind process of finding out where they drop and doing it over and over and over and over again until you get it. (Or buying it off the Auction House.) If this sounds at all familiar to this game as you have described it, stop and think about it a little longer.

Honestly, I’m more interested in “Attack on Mordremoth” with Commander Levi, er, Laranthir leading the way.

aerial.7021:

DavidH.7380:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It is a shame it’s the only reliable way to acquire yourself some Ascended armor and weapons. Understandable to me, but a shame, because it’s just not interesting enough to want to do. I’ll say outright what a lot of people here want me to say: It’s a grind. A very slow, somewhat expensive grind with a very arguably unnecessary payoff at the end.

Wasn’t that generally considered to be the whole point of ascended? Give the people who really wanted one a long, slow, stat based grind through ascended, AR, and fractals to chase, while making the payoff at the end minor enough for everyone who doesn’t want the grind to shrug their shoulders and ignore the hamster wheel?

I dare you, I double dare you, show me a forum page where these people are that wanted this, and almost guarantee you, you won’t find it.

(disclaimer: must be a significant amount of the population to require an addition of said ascended armor)

It’s impossible to find – it was two years ago and I don’t think the topics are still around. So, asking for an impossible thing (which you also know is impossible) doesn’t help your credit

But David is only partly correct – there was a significant amount of people here on the forums who were looking for a more traditional endgame. Same names were cross-referenced with people asking for more traditional experiences as well and that was offered with Fractals and Ascended Rings/Back to cover the need for Agony Resistance at that time. (It was covered, mind you, to the point where it was survivable by skill. People made it to ridiculously high levels of Agony with that “minimal” protection.)

After that, many . . . many people requested they just go ahead and do the full armor/weapon tier. And people asking for crafting to be useful. (Note, not profitable because that was already torpedoed.)

So, really, it was being asked for. But not up front as “we want another tier to grind crafting”.

Much like the second and third revamps to the Daily system was not exactly what people asked for, but it was what we got.

PistolWhip.2697:

So here we are again without a concrete reason. All the reasons given are anecdotal, can be mimicked by any community and are very self-centered. Is there an actual mechanical reason a PRIVATE section of a pve map shouldnt include pvp to allow those who can’t duel or FFA with friends in that specific way?

Anyone?

Yes. But you don’t want to hear it. I’ll come up with several, though, of varying strength.

1 – Because it counts against map limits. Having an arena where two, three, or fifteen people are just sitting about doing this highly limited PvP experience means there are that many less spots in the map for people who actually want to play on the map. If this were added to, say, Bloodtide Coast, how badly do you think it would be used to . . . troll Triple Trouble? Or Sparkfly Fen, to troll Tequatl? If you think it wouldn’t be used in such fashions I have some land to sell you.

2 – Because it requires development time spent on it. To make a place like this, and to manage to get it properly limited (i.e. the boundaries of what is PvP and what isn’t) seems like a challenge with a questionable payoff considering how many people do not want such a thing. Considering how mounts are probably also a “minor” technical challenge to implement and they haven’t actually been introduced yet either, I don’t think the developers want to spend their time on this.

3 – Because, as someone has noted, there already exists a place for duels with spectators to exist. There is no technical reason why that should be forcibly put into a PvE zone. Especially since, as noted, there are considerable amounts of people against this.

4 – Because this is not a game where such was designed to exist in, nor do the players seem to want this, nor do the developers seem to want it.

aerial.7021:

Yeah it does I think, I’ve ‘had’ to do this many many times, pretty much once every other crafting profession and…and they still aren’t the max available except 1 and I know for a fact that in order to get the other 8 professions even able to craft ascended gear I’m going to have to open my wallet again! and again!.

And the biggest reason it applies is “LIFE > MOUSE CLICK!”

Yeah, but I found it simpler to “just say no” to RMT, even legalized. It takes some doing, but it’s fairly easy all things considered. Just not quick. And as I stated, I just don’t see there to be a need to rush to it.

In fact, according to many folks, rushing to the top is why Ascended wound up becoming something the developers put effort into in order to appease “content locusts”. Not the theory I’m working under, but there’s only the word of developers to go on. And who should believe them?

And the point? .. does the amount of cash spent = value for money, and it does not considering its a virtual item(s).

Why then spend so much money? because I love the game period no RPG on earth has ever filled that void left by baudur’s gate except this one, so I’m willing to put up with it but that doesn’t mean I think it’s right because it isn’t.

I’m okay with that sentiment. (Minsc & Boo forever, by the way.) That’s honestly why you can do it, aside from of course “if we don’t offer it, they go elsewhere and get their account/CCs nicked by the shady people who run that stuff”. Sometimes the shortcut is simple and as easy as deciding to drop some cash on this instead of something else.

Of course, not everyone has the money to do that. I know I sure don’t have it. That’s one reason I don’t exactly have fond thoughts of how Ascended is handled in the crafting method. Pleased it’s there rather than purely RNG . . . not so pleased it’s a longer road to reach the skill level and then some serious requirements of material.

Though at one point I did figure out it’s easier to do two things with regards to raising Crafting easily. I don’t know how useful it is anymore but Crafting Boosters were invaluable . . . and I wound up with quite a lot back when the old Daily Achievement system would occasionally drop a Gem Store item into the mix. Secondly, Discoveries are preferable to mass production, but a rhythm is preferable to striking randomly. Work on Discoveries for the material-cheap weapons/armor (Horns for Huntsman, Foci for Artificer, Daggers for Weaponsmith, gloves for armor . . .)

. . . man I wish the crafting had been better.

phys.7689:

14 craft system is really well done, really enjoy doing it. Its also not necessary at all, which is good for those that dont enjoy it. And yet the items overall still have value.

anyhow i dont think gearing up should have ever REQUIRED crafting, its something some people just dont want to take to that level

I think it was a mistake without something more meaningful than the craft system we have. I mean, in the FF14 craft system I wouldn’t really complain – it’s robust and layered. Possible to make an end-game attempt at crafting feel like actually accomplishing something rather than just getting the pieces and pushing a button.

Similarly, TFC I had the wonderful feeling of making a wrought iron tool one time. It was troublesome, it took two attempts before I got the work right, and I sighed a bit when I realized it had to be practiced. But it was more satisfying than “three ingots plus stick equals pick”.

The crafting in GW2? I don’t appreciate it all that much. It feels like it’s something which could have been done better, or with a bit more of a flair. I like that it’s simple and formulaic – so was the crafting in Ultima Online and I worked the bejeezus out of that. But I just think crafting in GW2 is right now the middle of the pack for the games I’ve played as far as whether I hate it or love it. I’ve seen worse, but I’ve seen better.

It is a shame it’s the only reliable way to acquire yourself some Ascended armor and weapons. Understandable to me, but a shame, because it’s just not interesting enough to want to do. I’ll say outright what a lot of people here want me to say: It’s a grind. A very slow, somewhat expensive grind with a very arguably unnecessary payoff at the end.

But at least it’s not worse. And it easily, very easily could have been much worse. Could have been left as “rare drops”, or something from specific Mystic Forge recipes requiring stacks.

Honestly, I just plan on completely ignoring this. I got way too much other stuff to be concerned about.

Novuake.2691:

Rognik.2579:

Patience, Novuake. We might still get our answers in the Heart of Thorns.

I know. FEELS shoehorned, most likely isn’t.

Most likely was, then had the edges sanded down so it fit after the first fitting.

. . . I’m a DM at the tabletop, we do that sort of thing. All. The. Time.

Brahmincorle.1264:

Stark.1350:

He’s also saying he has a friend that plays casually. And he managed to obtain ascended. What’s everyone else’s problem?

We don’t liek the way how it is obtained… grinding gold, grinding materials or p2w and then crafting.

P2W again . . . really don’t think that applies here but, if someone feels like dropping the cash then translating it to gold, just for Ascended when Exotic is much easier? And cheaper?

Sure, go ahead.

I hate the UI minigame known as crafting, I hate wasting my time by dull grinding of materials or gold. Why can’t I loot ascended gear in higher fractals with decend drop rate? There are like 20 types of gear sets – this alone is crazy RNG to get stats that you want so it won’t be super quick or easy to get so nobody should have problem with this right? Give me BiS gear for playing the game, not UI of trading post and crafting station.

Eh, I hate the crafting “insert materials, output item” ever since I got to try TerraFirmaCraft. (For all I dislike of that mod, the crafting is something impressive.) Now after FF14, I kinda want designers to think a little better about the crafting other than essentially “vending machine interface”

Ardenwolfe.8590:

To be honest, every time I’ve seen something like this added to an MMO, it burns hot for about a month. And then, it turns into a wasteland of emptiness after. Once the PvPers get their griefing on against PvEers, the PvEers move elsewhere quick.

Then the PvPers turn their attention on each other. And then even they get bored and return to their usual hunting grounds . . . if any population is left.

Rifts, Aion, DAoC with certain servers, etc.

At least, that’s always been my experience when a free-for-all happens in an open world.

I can say similar things would happen cyclically in UO when I played.

phys.7689:

The primary blockers for people getting ascended is getting the gold, or the raw materials to craft, and leveling crafting itself.

Mostly the craft levels, since you need to hit 475 before you can transform the raw materials into refined ones. You also can’t make any of the equipment until you hit 500. For all these things, it is relatively only viable to level up by making Level 80 Exotics (Pearl weapons, for instance).

Those can get expensive to craft if you’re simply buying the materials, or time-consuming if all you’re doing is farming. Luckily, some options remain open which can shortcut some of the pain of acquisition.

Such as potential ability to make the Exotic inscriptions off sustainable materials such as Charged Quartz and Ambrite. Granted, Charged Quartz remains a time-gate. But it’s not a cost issue more than a time issue.

(Notably, time issues are much more comfortable than cost issues to get stuck by.)

The other other problem with Ascended is how much silk is needed for Damask and Spools of Silk Weaving Thread. Oh yes. Very real, very troublesome, and probably the reason I can make out like a bandit on silk sometimes.

Devata.6589:

“We agreed some pages back grind is subjective, right? So please, stop and realize what you just said here is that grind”
The exact interpretation and how people feel it is subjective, that does not mean there is no general meaning for the word.

Your problem is how your definition is what you insist is the only one, and it seems to bend a bit so you can shoehorn this “GW2 is grindy” argument into anywhere you can make it fit.

I mean, you actually worked up “because there is some form of grind in GW2, it therefore is grindy”.

If many people say they feel grind that is a problem. Is that way it’s a true issue. Also of other people say they do not feel grind.

Oh? A lot of people say there is a problem with there not being:

Mounts, dueling, open-world PvP, Cantha, Elona, playable tengu, ritualists, dervishes, paragons (lol, just kidding), Cantha, guild halls, alliances, Trahearne’s head on a spike, and also Cantha.

Some of these may be actual issues. Like the lack of Cantha, perhaps.

“I’m watching you play it up with funny arguments” Like what? Only funny argument I did see was ’it’s not grind because you do not need it’ and ’it’s irrelevant because it does not fits Colins definition of grind.’

Really.

Devata.6589:

I am not saying ‘listen to me’, I say, look at what people say on the forums and all I try to provide is some idea’s to think about. Showing at least how I do think about it.

The option to grind does not disappears in my suggestion, it just becomes exactly that.. an option.

And as I do not see a lot of people asking for more grind but I do see many complains about grind you are right.. Bad thought process is bad. and with all we know that would indeed be a bag thought process.

Personally, I find this hilarious. Not from the obvious problem of non-native English, but the idea that the game should be developed from the forums. I mean, if that was the case we’d have to agree mounts are a fantastic idea.

Devata.6589:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

No, my hostility such as it is, is reserved for people who argue from positions of logical instability and refuse to see that.

Logical instability meaning you don’t agree with it. I just said funny arguments where the ’it’s only grind if you need it’ and thats funny because it’s a logical instability so maybe your arguments are not so logical? Of course if you follow an not so logical line everything logical seems not logical.

See, here’s the problem. You’re attempting to discard anything I put forward as “you just don’t agree so obviously you’re the illogical one”. I don’t think you’re reading what I write.

You’re also trying to pervert something I said into something I didn’t say. I never actually said “it’s only grind if you need it”. You said I said that. Which tells me you aren’t reading it at all, but instead trying to come up with what it says in a soundbyte so you can discredit that instead of focusing on what I actually say.

Also known as a strawman.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Not a question, but I’ll retort for it anyway. What if that random chance happened to pick an item which is no longer available . . . ?

That would suck, just ask much as is does in GW2 (there are multiple). Also something I did complain about in the temporary content threads we had here as Anet was doing that a lot back then. Luckily we manage to change Anet’s mind on that. While also in those topics people where defending it.

So, what you’re saying is you cannot earn it. Though you argued in favor of earning the bulk of the items, assisted by saying no firm number, which has cosmetic value. But there is this thing which is . . . incredibly awesome looking . . . which is prevented from being acquired anymore. And it’s not the only one.

As for items which are no longer available currently in GW2, I count fairly little to be confirmed “gone for good” unlike this particular item . . . which is definitively no longer available. You might convince GW2 devs to add some of them back . . . but you will never convince Blizzard to restore this . . .

Just for instance.

Or how about one of these . . . yes, I’m sure you can just get one of these off a rack. In game. With no external purchases.

Astral Projections.7320:

yanipheonu.5798:

Astral Projections.7320:

On that note: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxmkAoLC6_4

Oh Plague I love you XD

“Let’s go to hell, and kill Satan!”

After all these years that video still makes me laugh.

To each their own. I find “Church vs Voicemail” funnier . . . but that’s just me.