Guild Wars 2

Chrispy.5641:

Yeah, a whole zerg with white armor against a whole team with Exotic/ascended armor and food, who, because of their gear, have 75% more armor and stats(from gear) than the other team does. I’d like to see that and watch the white team prove that superior tactics will help them win. Should be hilarious.

Stats matter in WvW. So, yeah, you said it yourself. Try again.

Well if you mean “tactics” as in “able to drop a few arrow carts” . . .

eithinan.9841:

I would really like to see the source of this information please and not Inculpatus cedo, but a dev post.

I’ll have to ask the next tagged person I see hanging around in Lion’s Arch.

Chrispy.5641:

No, you’re doing it exactly right. Your problem is the assumption that if the advantage is small enough, it no longer exists, and also failing to admit that. That is also the problem of the guy who replied to you.

Man, you guys would have fun playing Destiny, where all the weapons’ kill times are balanced to within milliseconds of each other, well, except for the part where those milliseconds count. Same as in this game when it comes to making lots of gold and making lots of gold fast.

Yeah, but let’s stop right here and you can tell me how having an apparent infinite supply of Gold (and nothing else) helps me “win” things like WvW. Or sPvP reward track items. Or Luminescent skins.

I can be sitting on a pile of gold big enough to make Evon Gnashblade jealous and . . . I win what exactly?

Tale Destiny, and I have tried it but it was so not my cup of tea . . . FPS games just can’t be entertaining to me anymore . . . but assume I go fight Crota, Son of Oryx at the end of the raid. Does it matter if I am not set up for complete advantage, so long as I’m actively not trying to die and managing to do the steps needed to be done (kill swordbearer, protect guy with sword, drop Crota with damage, and kill Oversoul when it shows up)? Do I really need to have the bleeding edge?

Experience, and experienced players, have led me to the answer of “no”. Squeezing every advantage point to reach the peak of performance isn’t something which needs to be worried about.

About the only thing I can win is the admiration of people I don’t know, don’t care about, and would probably admire me more if I did it without the Absolute Best. I mean, anyone can wreck a Tigrex . . . but how many people do it naked with a rusty sword?

I never said it was a bad thing, so stop replying to me assuming that I’m being negative just because I called it pay-to-win. Try again, or don’t reply to me. Either way, whatever. you have yet to prove yourself right in any way.

Eh, as I said, I’ve seen “pay to win” in spades. I’ve seen a lot, honestly, which makes me stop and look over at the people who label these things and go “really?”.

Now, on the topic of bag space being an issue and the Gem Store selling things? I’m mostly okay with it – 105 slots from filling up with 20 slot bags and a 25 slot backpack.

Make two of them salvage kits so you can salvage on the run, and do your salvages when you’re auto-attacking something. Sell your wares at any stop by basically liquidating anything (make a bag an Invisible/Safe bag and you can tuck important things there to keep em from selling on accident). Consistently hit your “Deposit Materials” button so you don’t fill up on the crafting materials. Need a bank? WvW Borderlands has you covered. Stash anything in there and if you get a full stack of materials in your storage, fish it out and start a new one.

Not sure how much of an issue it is to have the extra 60 slots to play around with and fill up when you are active about liquidating your loot on a regular basis.

Vayne.8563:

Actually the election was closer than they thought it would be.

That’s because Evon Gnashblade got two votes.

Only two?

. . . did his cousin Evan also help?

Redenaz.8631:

Next election?

For the Captain’s Council?

WHEN SOMEONE DIES, YARR.

You know that can always be arranged

:)

Of course it was rigged. Everyone in LA now believes Kiel was set up to win so she could give Evon juicy contracts such as supplying the Lionguard during the Scarlet debacle. And thus put smaller mercantile businesses out of the way.

I mean, they even got Geoff’s business. That Ash Legion two-faced fink.

Linken.6345:

Yea crazy that you want to find and complete your collections yourself hu.

. . . yeah.

It’s like you’d have to be crazy to expect one try at the Mystic Forge to give you a Precursor . . . and yet . . .

Just be very cautious allowing people to take things out of your guild, and have your officers keep an eye on new members.

Setting your permissions so only officers can use Influence to queue up projects might be nice – I recall hearing once of a guild having someone basically build banners endlessly and keep the queue full so nothing else could be done.

But in all cases, it’s really . . . really . . . important to just be cautious who you let have access to your stuff. To quote a person I knew: “Security begins and ends with you and controlling access. If they can’t get their hands on it, they’re not tempted to do something . . . stupid.”

Dave.2536:

Where is this “risk” everyone is talking about? If people simply waypointed on death like 90% of normal contributing people already do, then there isn’t anything to miss out on.

The only people we want to “push” to be more useful are the dead weights who are not contributing at all. I’m not sure how the incentive of free waypointing for (only) the first 30 seconds after death at an event would encourage more passive, defensive, and selfish play than we have right now.

That’s what I’m trying to tell you. No matter what you do to try to force or wave incentives in front of them, they’re not going to do more than the bare minimum to get credit, and fixes may provide them ways to actually screw things up for other players greater than “being a corpse”.

See, you have a problem. You’re not thinking like a griefer or AFK farmer. They want to do the least amount of work they can get away with to get their rewards, or they just want to screw up an event for the lulz. Incentives to waypoint are going to likely cause them not to bother with that, or if it’s an automatic use? They’ll find places to not die and thus not need to waypoint . . . and since they’re alive . . . they scale up the event.

Leaving them on the ground because you notice they’re not doing anything other than dying is the best policy. But it’s a personal choice I’d like to not have made for me. I’d also not like to risk getting tagged by this system due to things outside my control, such as having to make a mad dash to the restroom and figuring I’ll be back soon enough to return to the battle. (And yes, thanks to some spectacularly greasy food, had that happen.)

shadow.6174:

Wondering what happened with those philosophies…

Nothing, really, considering two things.

First, that refers to how Hearts/Events complete – you get them automatically and don’t have to “turn in” to get your rewards. There’s no needing to go back to, say, Beetletun to claim reward for pushing out the centaurs from Turnwatch Redoubt. You just get it.

Secondly, Vistas are unlocked hopefully before more than a couple zones are peeked into. (What was it, inside the first 10 levels?) From my play through an NPE character I had them unlocked before I left the starting half of Wayfarer’s Foothills.

So we’re not talking about having to turn back from pushing world completion through Mount Malestrom for the Vistas. Unless you’re a glutton for punishment trying to do it before level 20.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Shiyo.3578:

I feel sorry for anyone without maxed bank/bag slots.

Don’t. We get by just fine!

I know, I make quite a bit now that I also had someone point me to Material Promotion in the Forge . . . get to use up all that excess materials.

Shiyo.3578:

It was fine before they decided greens/blues should rain from the sky and there should be 800 currencies that don’t go into the currency tab and every mob should have 18 different types of bags/boxes/satchels it could drop.

I feel sorry for anyone without maxed bank/bag slots.

I blame the people who claimed they couldn’t earn gold, now it’s super easy to do it if you take the ten seconds to sell your loot off before sprinting on.

I didn’t say the social issue was ignoring full dead, I said there was a social issue in play here. And trying to solve it with rules just drives people to find other ways around the rules. As I said, I expect if they do this whole “shunt the fully dead after X minutes” people will find some place to stand and not die, and therefore scale the event . . . leading to “needing” to solve that problem next.

. . . it’s giving asuras, er, mice, cookies.

Behellagh.1468:

So. Stop at nearest NPC vendor. Sell Junk. Salvage all unwanted salvagable items. Send mats to collection. If you don’t want to salvage the sell those unwanted items on the TP, no need to even visit a TP location. Now it’s only a problem if you want to keep all those items, for some reason. Other than ascended mats which are account bound, what do you need to keep for a rainy day? Skins go into the wardrobe now. Maybe BLSKs and a handful of GS items you get from the login rewards. I ran over a year with the original 30 bank slots and none of my characters have added bag slots.

I guess I’m doing something wrong.

Oh man, so am I because I have time to do those things and it’s taking the valuable 30 seconds out of time running around farming up items to salvage and sell.

Seriously, people been attaching “pay to win” to all kinds of things in this game and it ticks me off since I’ve seen and played “Pay to Win” games and they’re:

- A lot more aggressive about getting your money.
- Literally giving out significant advantages when you pay cash/premium currency.
- Not nearly as low-key as “now I have more space to fill”.

Seriously. Get another character. Use it with 15 slot bags (cheap and available) and store your Dragonite Ore in there instead of your bank.

Now you’re “winning”, until you fill that up with more stuff . . . (why?) . . . which isn’t technically winning anything because they just sit there doing nothing but collecting dust . . .

. . . so is it more “Pay to Lose Slot Space I Normally Would Be Using For More Useless Junk”?

I love how the goalposts move so often on “Pay to win” it’s like it doesn’t even have meaning anymore.

At the greatest I would approve transplanting the timer they added to WvW semi-recently which has something like 5 minutes on it before it auto-waypoints you. The trick then is how to handle the waypoint cost . . .

. . . only I’d say “don’t worry about that, make it auto pay too”.

Cheaper to buy another character slot and fill it with bags than it is to buy a bag space.

eyestrain.3056:

ps- it sounds to me that your problem with this suggestion Tobias is that you’re imagining it in place for all pve events when I read it as being only for major boss fights.

I think it’d be great for major boss fights, but at the same time I have two issues.

The first is more on a philosophical note – We already know the dead don’t impact the scaling, so the problem is stated to be other . . . productive . . . people stopping to pick up fully dead people instead of ignoring them. I do not approve of the desire to train people to ignore others. That goes against the deeper spirit of Guild Wars 2: wanting players to help other players because there’s only benefit in doing so. Trying to change the mentality of players to “just leave them alone” is a small change, but small changes are the foundation on which more exclusive behavior is tolerated and advocated.
We desperately do not need to foster that, and we should not allow ourselves to backslide back into the mindset of other players generally being an obstacle to our fun.

The second is on a more technical note – Adding a timer is adding complexity to a system which doesn’t necessarily need it. Every time you need to sort through a pile of event data to work on less than 5% of all events, and impact only those events, you run the risk of it impacting outside the targeted events. And if it does, that’s a bug issue which means now you need to go back into it and do it again.
This is a pile of work for something which isn’t exactly needed in the first place, and won’t do all that much to stop things like this. Instead of dead bodies leeching you’ll get live players leeching and they scale up the event.

The problem is a social one, and trying to use the system to fix a social problem rarely actually has the effect desired without having a ton of extra effects which are unwanted and disliked.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Back in 1310AE I got one from a cactus.

Never once since then.

They should make them available in bulk packages of 25 from the bandit crest and/or geode vendors.

I could totally see this being plausibly useful.

Azrael.4960:

Would be interesting to have a change that resulted in “if you are dead for >50% of an event, you get nothing” bwahaha

Given that sometimes 50% of an event is the time it takes to be picked up from downed, in some cases? (Especially prime time Cursed Shore events like the giant.) I don’t think it’s reasonable to a time frame

PetboyJoshua.3108:

Yep, this is also what I’m hoping for.
Maybe the Nightmare Court we know could become two distinct factions : one that’s rooting for the Dragon (and the Dreamers that joined Mordremoth’s side too), and the other one that, yeah, isn’t going to obey to Mordremoth because it would totally be against their desire of freedom.
If Arenanet is just going to make them all go for Mordremoth, I’ll be quite disappointed, I just don’t see how being slaves to a Dragon would be okay with the NC’s philosophy.

You mean the Soundless joined, right?

I could see the Nightmare Court wanting to race to Mordremoth and try to use it like those courtiers wanted to use the Nightmare Tree in TA. Especially if Faolain is convinced she could use the power of the dragon herself under the right circumstances without becoming its total slave (i.e. “Corrupted” Kudu)

Azrael.4960:

How you choose to act is on you. How you choose to feel about how you act is on, again, you. Those of us who have chosen to put on the pip and lead can only provide advice based on our experience of leading an event successfully. The game “punishes” you because it has code to target players who are down or those who are ressing as they are vulnerable.

It’s one reason a secondary character of mine (Guardian), I’m seriously considering Sup. Runes of Mercy . . .

“Dead” players who are left there will eventually learn that their decision to lie there awaiting help results in one thing. Their missing out on the fun

Honestly, this is the biggest punishment of all, in my opinion. It’s a shame many seem to miss the fun for the rewards.

I have too many Prickly Pears for food which I don’t care about making, and wouldn’t use anyway.

Where are they? Gather on every cactus you see during “Time Out” in Silverwastes, or when you’re running around Dry Top. You’ll get some – they’re not as rare as Foxfire.

I’m not commanding. Ever . . .

I made that decision when I had 100 Gold and wondered about it. Frankly, it wasn’t respected then in PvE and in WvW people preferred other commanders.

I’m somewhat agreeing that players who stay dead with the intent to leech should feel ashamed. But they won’t ever feel ashamed. Punishing other players for them feels like trying to drive in a ten-penny nail with a sledgehammer.

Honestly, I’ve found the last three times I’ve bothered to get the Daily Completionist I haven’t even been fully trying. How? It’s been in WvW, which usually has one or two dead-simple things to do. Things which most likely don’t involve fighting other players (Master of Ruins, Land Claimer, Big Spender).

BrettM.9062:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

So WHY does it matter if they lay there dead?

Because dead players do no DPS? What if those remaining on their feet are too few, losing an event that might have been won if the dead had waypointed and gotten back into the fight?

Then the dead people are punished by getting no reward for their attempts to coast.

Lazaar.9123:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Lazaar.9123:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

So WHY does it matter if they lay there dead?

Because full dead bodies get in the way of ressing people that are only downed.

. . . given how often I don’t get picked up when downed, I don’t think that’s as big an issue as you claim. I’ve been left to die (hard death) more often than picked up.

And most of the times someone picks me up has been in WvW, not in PvE. In PvE, it’s been my experience if you go down people generally seem to think you somehow deserved it and won’t help.

Take the zerg spot in Tequatl for example, if a notification pops up people will spam f to res them, but if it’s a dead body they interacted with instead it will be a huge dps loss and will likely cause someone that is only downed to full die.

I’m familiar with the fight, thanks, I try to do it nightly and switch up where I go. Zerg, turrets, hills, boats, I’ve been in all the positions at least once now.

. . . the DPS loss of one person stopping to pick up one dead body isn’t of consequence. The DPS loss of a significant amount of people stopping to pick up a ton of them is slightly of consequence.

And Tequatl is one fight where there is no shame in dying.

Ashen.2907:

Sorry, I am not trying to be obtuse but I am still not getting it. You said, “what about players like me,” in reference to being punished. The only people that I have seen anyone speaking about being punished are those who choose to lie around rather than getting back up and into the fight.

Characters get downed, they die. Even people who are normally very good at timing dodges and other active defenses might die due to lag in some of the bigger events. Of course they shouldnt be punished for that. But the people who just lie there (Ive never seen a dev comment one way or the other about the dead scaling up content) and opt to not contribute should probably be encouraged to get back into the fight.

You know, it comes to mind there’s a specific challenge which gets tried in another game I play, the “Nuzlocke Challenge” for Pokemon games. The idea is simple – you can only capture the first Pokemon you encounter in any area, and once a Pokemon is KO’d, you must release it. A “permadeath” if you will.

I’ve thought about what would happen if we had something like that happening here, where the only way to return to life is to have someone else come pick you up. And you couldn’t call for help, either, you had to pretend you were a corpse. I think it could be pretty . . . interesting . . . but then, I’m a roleplayer at heart.

No, it’s not quite an answer to your post, just a reflection in thought aloud.

But according to this topic, and suggestions of auto/forced WP returns, there’s no distinction between players who were unlucky dodging or players who just sit there to wait it out. Fully dead is fully dead, and anyone laying on the ground needs to be moved . . . sometimes denied a reward . . . because they died.

It irks me, slightly, because I often enough die due to bad luck (Silverwastes KD/KB/AoE spam during fort defenses) or because I try to get someone sitting in one of Teq’s poison puddles up before they die, and I wind up down instead. Punishing me for that feels . . . wrong.

Palador.2170:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Well, if you do an appreciable amount of damage you’ll still get the reward at Bronze, which triggers Bonus Chests or the loot chests. Not many events are far from waypoints if they succeed, come to think of it. Shouldn’t be as much of an issue – I think the champ or rare-loot"Steel Chests" which drop linger for five minutes?

Actually, that brings up a good question: How long DO you have to get back to a fight and claim your rewards after the event ends?

Though, what I should have said is that I kind of worry that I’ll be far enough away that it’ll forget that I was in that fight unless I make it back by the end. Which, now that I think about it, is stupid of me. I’ve WP’ed across a map before, then had an event I tagged before the jump complete and reward me many times.

I know, it’s a mental thing, it’s why I stop to try to get people up if I can. Even the full dead, if I think I can spare the time. I also have taken to running “Search and Rescue” on my bar, too. (Actually fairly useful, that moa has more health than I do.)

Lazaar.9123:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

So WHY does it matter if they lay there dead?

Because full dead bodies get in the way of ressing people that are only downed.

. . . given how often I don’t get picked up when downed, I don’t think that’s as big an issue as you claim. I’ve been left to die (hard death) more often than picked up.

And most of the times someone picks me up has been in WvW, not in PvE. In PvE, it’s been my experience if you go down people generally seem to think you somehow deserved it and won’t help.

Palador.2170:

I know some people don’t WP due to the costs, but I often find myself wondering “can I make it back in time if I WP?” I worry that I won’t, and miss out on the reward I was trying so hard for. Yes, in most places that’s not really an issue, but in some the nearest WP is far enough away that I do worry, especially if the fight is nearly over.

Well, if you do an appreciable amount of damage you’ll still get the reward at Bronze, which triggers Bonus Chests or the loot chests. Not many events are far from waypoints if they succeed, come to think of it. Shouldn’t be as much of an issue – I think the champ or rare-loot"Steel Chests" which drop linger for five minutes?

Ashen.2907:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

What about players like me, who most often die entirely due to either repeated/constant CC on me (knockdown, launch, knockdown, stun, death) . . . or picking people who went down (but not dead) up and making it impossible to dodge a hit? I assume we should likewise be punished for bad luck or choosing to be helpful instead of focusing on the event?

Here’s my rebuttal to the idea of needing forced WP relocation. Stop letting dead players scale up an event.

I am not sure that I understand the point there. Don’t you want to get back into the event after youve been killed ? Why wouldnt you WP and run back to the fight ?

You should ask the people laying around. I get my rear up and back to running so I am not laying there uselessly, in the hopes of getting back into the fray and being useful.

(Even if I am a ranger.)

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

As far as we know, according to past Dev statements, the dead do not scale up events. This seems to be misinformation that is commonly accepted. I’m not sure why.

So WHY does it matter if they lay there dead?

What about players like me, who most often die entirely due to either repeated/constant CC on me (knockdown, launch, knockdown, stun, death) . . . or picking people who went down (but not dead) up and making it impossible to dodge a hit? I assume we should likewise be punished for bad luck or choosing to be helpful instead of focusing on the event?

Here’s my rebuttal to the idea of needing forced WP relocation. Stop letting dead players scale up an event.

Rognik.2579:

Seasonal tokens (like the socks) or craftable ones (like the blade shards) are the ones that’d get merchants. (I finally sold my 250 mystic cogs last wintersday!) Anything else seems safe to toss.

I sold my cogs too, but still had some left over. Sigh.

I’m hanging onto “Found Belongings” on my thief though. Why? Roleplay reasons.

Ashendale.2165:

shadow.6174:

Paul.4081:

You shouldn’t be allowed to add/change things in a game if you don’t play it. Rolling a character and standing around in LA is not enough.

So… what do you mean with it? Even playing a game for a few minutes is already enough to give opinions/suggestions/etc, even though the less you know it, more chances you have to get a reprehension for saying things that you don’t know about, just that.

I think he’s referring to whoever has any weight on decisions that affect the game, such as this one. It took me a bit to come to this interpretation, as the post had no background context I could grasp.

On the surface it makes sense to make such a demand, but once you start thinking about it . . . it makes no sense at all to require it. The people who make the decisions don’t have time while at work to be playing for anywhere near as much (on average) as the majority of players. They certainly can’t be expected to play broadly enough to get a feel for multiple things or deeply enough at one thing to completely understand it from a player’s perspective. And demanding they do it in their off time so they can bring the average up or play more is disrespectful to their private lives.

The fact there are a few who do anyway is a testament to how much they love the game rather than it being their job to do so.

Everyone has a finite amount of time in the day to get things done. That they work for ArenaNet does not magically give them more time to do things.

While the OP is slightly biased about this whole thing because of what they want out of it, I’m somewhat having the same conclusion about the Treasure Hunter objects. There really does need to be some alternative way of acquiring them than a successful chain of events. Along with a revisitation on the RNG odds of acquiring them.

I’d say make the odds better for a successful event, and low for either a defense event (out of bonus chest in addition to the rare) and/or from enemies in the area where the event(s) take place. Such as enemies in the Cathedral dropping the special accessories, or dredge near the comissar dropping the Manifest . . .

Galphar.3901:

Would you look at that. The New Traits thread has been buried on page 5. I guess their plan work.

Yes, there is always a sinister plan at work. Always.

Tanith.5264:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

It’s the jumping puzzle area of the Metrica Province, which has indeed always been there.

Duh, should have thought of that, it was one of the first I’d attempted at launch. Odd that I never noticed it before from that angle. I should look up more often. :P

Tobias, ambient dialogue where?

Near the Leatherworker place, I heard it again as I logged in last night but couldn’t catch it.

Rognik.2579:

Personally, I too have no sympathy for those duped by the false percentages, but I don’t condone the actions of the people who consciously proclaim them, either. It’s possible to condemn both sides in a matter like this. Besides, it really shouldn’t be that big a deal to get the silverwaste up to that percentage if people are joining whether or not by false pretenses.

It was. I was late-night and decided to use the LFG tool for jumping into a Silverwastes which wasn’t empty or full of people doing nothing (seemingly). So I did a 75% one and it was 3/4 forts held and minimal progress.

The guy in map chat admitted he was being coy with the description, but the map mostly laughed it off and got to work. Breach happened, and one, Vinewrath went down, we had a good time and much luck with loot.

By the way, on my personal barometer?

Tequatl isn’t too easy, or too hard, and requires me to not sleepwalk.

Triple Trouble I’ve never even seen a successful run, possibly due to my inability to sync up times. It is too hard for me personally since I will likely not see a success. IT can be done, but I’m not going to be in on it.

Taidha Covington is too freaking boring when it scales up the gate to have an insane amount of kegs needed to bring it down. It’s not hard, it’s just tedious.

Claw of Jormag is interesting enough to keep me focused, but fear spams too often with the knockback ice wave for me to really enjoy doing it.

Silverwastes, as a whole, is really well-done. I’ve seen more Breaches fail than succeed (often due to one of the bosses in particular just not getting the bodies to do it) but the Vinewrath has rarely come close to failing for me – but individually the champions have been dangerous for a significant percentage of people.

Twisted Marionette, as a whole, was poorly-done with regards to how forgiving it was for how often it happened. The platform phase in particular was more frustrating than interesting due to having most of the platforms win but one . . . just one . . . fails. The specific boss/lane achievements were neat but also tended to mess things up.

laokoko.7403:

you should challenge yourself by entering the map 10 minutes before the events started.

And see if your leadership can carry a team.

Instead of arriving 30 minutes to prep and have an organized team carry you.

I’ve entered maps 5 minutes before Tequatl and gotten into good maps. So good, in fact, it took me four weeks since trying regularly to get sucked into a whirlpool once. He just skips it if you burn him fast enough.

And yet . . . some nights it’s a struggle to get past that first phase. We can do it, but sometimes the DPS just isn’t there and it takes what feels like forever.

Also, was using my Elementalist sylvari to park some items for later, and listened in on some ambient dialogue . . . will need to catch it again but it seems like there’s been changes.

Hmmm, I like my Lionguard axe skin. also “Truth” was nice.

Those prices probably should get ruined.

By the by, that does work out rather well for the look.

. . . remember to DOOOOOODGE though.

Am I the only one remembering mesmers get Greatsword and treat it entirely as a ranged weapon? Hence, calling the shield a tank weapon seems weird considering mesmers probably will have something different to do with shields.

As for rangers and staff, I’m curious as all heck for what that will mean.

Lastly, engineers and hammer feels weird since they’re kinda . . . well, warhammers. But I’m not an engineer, I just play one on TV.

No capes . . .

HandOfKane.5409:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Why on Tyria would I want to do any of that except the last bit? I have zero interest in counting, or trying to make a vote tally. That’s your problem. Mine is how there are the following issues:

Nope, doesn’t work like that. You were the one who claimed that “the nays are all misinformed and just starting trouble for the heck of it!”, not me. Therefore burden of proof is on you.

I did not claim any such thing. Read back.

A “fair amount of people,” eh. Vague terms are meaningless without actual numbers.

And I’m sure you can give examples of people “knowingly being misinformative,” or “in ignorance of the actual effects and parroting what they heard?”

Sure. Oh wait, that name and shame thing which is against the forum rules. Right. But then, even if I were to provide examples, why do I suspect you’d discount them?

And yet you keep responding. Looks like you care about it more than you think.

No, I just like calling out people on their dolyak droppings.

Examples of this “bad information and terrible ‘polling data’?” And I mean, not in the vein of “I disagree with it, so it’s invalid.”

We already crossed that, and you called it invalid for me not breaking forum rules doing the name and shame thing.

So I’m either disagreeing with it so it’s invalid, or I start accumulating strikes on my account and getting posts deleted . . . which means I didn’t prove anything or I would have posted it.

Hmmm, tough choice. I’m going to have to say . . . fine, if you want to play the debate game and lawyer it up?

I demand proof your claims are as solid as you claim they are about people who no longer play due to NPE, including proof they are in fact invididual owners of accounts with actual names and proof they are not merely some guy running multiple sock puppet accounts posting the same thing. You know, since the burden of proof is on you for that claim you made before.

Until then, stick to speaking for yourself and not trying to stand on the shoulders of potentially nonexistent protesters to make your point more visible.

I’m going to go on record now for the third thing I hate, wholly and unconditionally, in this game.

- Asura
- The Mad King’s Clock Tower
- Fractal achievements

Gilosean.3805:

Pikka.6023:

On one hand, exploration and achievement is highly desirable, and necessitates ‘gating’ of some sort.

That’s quite a contrast to GW1, where the challenges so varied from one map to another, and even more so one dungeon to another, that you could easily wipe if you didn’t adjust your team and builds to meet the challenge.

Why do you think we need gating?

Please. Every game needs some form of gating.