Guild Wars 2

To Esteemed Toymaker Tixx,

I trust everything is well this year for you, and that you will actually be visiting the Grove this coming Wintersday. We have so many questions and none of the other asura let us talk with them anymore. All Shera did was ask that poor golem about turtles, deserts, and its mother. Next thing I know all asura say they are expressly forbidden to converse with us beyond basic requests for information.

Moving on.

I was not awakened the last time you were here so I am not quite sure what ‘toys’ you make. Are they anything like those wooden swords the norn children practice with? Or are they similar to the pistols charr cubs are seen taking apart and reassembling? The humans’ talk confused me about all their different sorts of toys, games, and I’m quite afraid I lost three gold in a “game of chance” which I’m not sure was chance at all now that I think about it.

How big are these toys? Do they have any particular use? Why do some human children want cloth bundles with stitched features and others look for carved wooden horses? Do I need to pay you or do you provide them for free? How do I know when to look for the delivery? What is the meaning of the word ’grentch ’ and why was I supposed to be insulted by it? How is a goddess of life and a god of death supposed to do battle and not deal damage to the living realm? Will they actually show up or is it just a human myth? Are the toys important to summon them? Why did some human hand me this strange candy shard and say I had to hang onto it? What is the importance of eggnog, do I need some?

If you could please respond to my questions I would be most appreciative for whatever information you can give. Then I might know what gifts to ask you for!

Wishing you well
Ihara Copperleaf

Note: Yes, I am doing this for the sheer enjoyment of playing around writing what I hope is amusing stuff. Either way, it’s practice before I get to deeper work

Toymaker Tixx

I want your undivided attention.

Last year I asked you to deliver me a set of tools so I could calibrate my rifle for use hunting filthy human Separatists. The tools you got me were perhaps well crafted for an asura but I couldn’t use them without breaking those delicate instruments. As a result, rather than firing a bullet in a precise grouping, my rifle suffered what you might call a “catastrophic structural fault”.

I, however, would like to call it: “blew up my rifle and you owe me a replacement”.

Normally I’d conduct this sort of business face to face. However since every asura I have questioned about your whereabouts has instead opted for silence even in the face of Euryale, my warband’s elementalist . . . you are fortunate enough not to be face to face to me now. It is, on the other hand, unfortunate for them. At least some of them did not start crying at the end.

Do not make me hunt you down afterwards, because I have much more serious matters to attend to.

While I am writing this and have your attention, I have another minor issue to bring up. I understand there is a human toy known as a “doll”, and that they are popular for the young humans as they are growing up. They are not as popular with the cubs of the Black Citadel, and certainly not Tribune Brimstone. If you absolutely must deliver them, please avoid those bearing the likeness of that Seraph Captain. We of the Blood Legion would much rather appreciate using our talents on the battlefield and not making sure every blasted one of those dolls was rounded up and thrown into a fire pit.

Promising you a clean death,
Garah Emberbane

P.S.: No more Krytan fruitcakes. We can’t eat them, and they make lousy targets to practice with.

Varkronn.9783:

Thanks for the responses everyone, much appreciated!

@Tobias
It is awkward and I’m not sure how it could be done (the idea of one item taking the form of another) hence I suggested trading with Miyani, but then you get the whole "how would the game distinguish between a soul-bound lodestone and a regular one.

The basic principle is that there is a personal, individual player only source for certain items that is restricted to a degree so as to act as a gradual easer to the current way of collecting materials. Skill points seems reasonable, however they are not limited by a certain time frame ala dailies so could be too effective unless the conversion prices were high, which may undermine the whole principle and make it an unattractive venture.

I just feel gold being the be-all and end-all is not only bland but pigeon holes players to find the best methods to earning money. A bit more balance could go a long way I feel.

Well the problem with Soulbound attaching to the cores you would trade for . . . is that it doubles the database entries for the cores since there now has to be one “natural” core which is normal and one which is Soulbound through this process. And that means clunkier work since the item database now gets extra entries which are otherwise redundant.

Vermillion Hawk.9037:

I think the lodestone transferral idea has quite some merit.

I think it COULD work, except the Forge only accepts 4 items.

Now, if you could turn Prismatic Lodestones into others with a recipe:

“1 Any Lodestone + 2n Prismatic Lodestones = n First Lodestone”

That’d do something twofold – allow you to transform Prismatic Lodestones as you need them, and require you have at least one before you start. The 2:1 exchange ratio also means it’s not easily abused for bulk exchanges for Trading Post sale later.

Though obviously it might need to be tweaked to 3:1 or maybe even 1d4+1 : 1 if you’re absolutely attached to a random return rate. (Note: this is not the best idea due to the unpredictability and the appearance of a potentially blatant time/effort sink.)

The question is where would you seed in Prismatic Lodestones? Best access for players would probably be as skill-point purchased through Miyani, second best would be a Karma merchant somewhere not easily accessible or requiring a specific DE chain to trigger. (Be evil and let it only be possible with all five Cathedrals uncontested . . . but AFTER putting fixes in for Balthazar.)

Attn Toymaker Tixx:

From the College of Synergetics,

We would like to remind you that you have still not returned the project you borrowed from Pogg’s workshop. While we appreciate your making good use of our Unified Morality Alignment Discerning Device, we did have plans to continue tweaking it to incorporate detection besides “naughty” and “nice” based on each species’ unique morality outlook.

Please return the U.M.A.D.D promptly after this upcoming human holiday season or we will have to suspend your credentials. I, personally, hope it will not become necessary to do so.

(Also, if on your return trip you could pick up another batch of test subjects, it would be vastly appreciated. We might have a breakthrough concerning how norn interact with the Spirits of the Wild. Please remember we do not need any more followers of “Stag” though as it got rather confusing for poor Junior Assistant Stagg.)

We wish you Felicitous Undertakings,
Sub-Director Aurmm

catqeer.1954:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Dear Toymaker Tixx,

We would like to lodge a minor complaint about the last visit. Notably, it seems your present sort of exploded after we opened it. And then caught fire. This is an improvement from the previous year in which it caught fire and then exploded, so I hope this year we can avoid either exploding or fire altogether.

Little Johnny also would like to revise his list from last year that he does not want the “Logan Thackeray Seraph Sword and Shield” since he heard another child being called “Captain Runaway” over the summer. Instead he’d like a doll action figure of the Hero of Shaemoor.

As for Susan, she made me promise with a pinky swear to remind you most human young ladies do not understand a build-your-own-golem kit and she wound up trading it to a visiting asura for a Red Rytlock rifle. We are lucky she did not, in fact, put her eye out. She instead said she wants a wolf puppy she can train so she can be as cool as Eir and Garm.

(Amending my previous statement, please don’t bring one of those for Johnny either. He’s a better shot but I don’t want to encourage him picking on that Canthan boy who doesn’t celebrate Wintersday.)

And as a personal favor, please do not fire deliver your presents through the window again. We would prefer you instead leaving them on the front stoop, or on the roof if you must. (We will figure out a way of getting them down.)

Thank you for your time,
Madame Jubari

P.S: Just a reminder, the children will be leaving milk and cookies for your skritt workers. They are not leaving their bead necklaces for your skritt workers.

Was it a charr who called that kid captain runaway because humans love him for saving their queen… if he had not been there she would have been over run and killed before casting her spell… nice try to stick with the lore though

No, he was just from Lion’s Arch. Little pirate-bred urchin . . . no respect for the Seraph or their sense of duty, you see.

Edit: Also, it was a blatant shout-out / reference to a favorite different work of fiction. You can figure it out later

Conner.4702:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Rukia.4802:

“ArenaNet (sort of) held a hard line against all VP with GW1 — no VP ever, year after year — and it wasn’t that fun. It was stagnant.” -Mike O’brien, 11/27/12

http://www.reddit.com/user/Mike-OBrien-ArenaNet

What a fail reply by Mike O’brien. This just proves they don’t get it anymore. If they are wondering why GW died it’s because they completely abandoned all of us with no pvp balance or content to work on GW2 for YEARS. Anyone who actively played GW1 played it because IT HAD NO VP. Wow, is it seriously THAT HARD to get it through their heads? Jesus.

GW1 was NOT stagnant. I hate Mike O’brien with a passion now, I thought he was smarter than that. Just confirmation of the failure of GW2, it has no future with me.

My useless input?

Stagnant is a variable word and in a sense . . . yes. It was stagnant in one sense: the developers readily admitted they had no real idea what they could do further within the engine and design of the game. Hence they started GuildWars 2.

When the developers are unable to continue with a project it then is stagnant. They can add fun new little side things (and risk adding something which doesn’t work at all), they can try polishing what’s there (and risk of over-doing that) . . . but there’s no growth. It’s done expanding and reached the borders of what the developers can see.

No, GW1 was not a failure, it was a success. Wildly so, in fact. But there’s the classic problem of the question which follows a success:

“So what’s next?”

No the developers admitted that the engine could not support the ideas they had for Guild Wars Utopia. That’s why they started on GW2 and made EotN instead of Utopia.

That is a completely different issue from having horizontal progression and than kicking the community that likes this some more by calling it stagnant and not fun. Mike O’Brien is a fool for doing so. The only thing that statement accomplished was drive people away. Doesn’t matter if it was many or not.

Ehhh, it was just my two cents and thoughts which I wanted to put in text. I don’t feel much like going into exactly how I could understand his expression in regards to players, because I would rather look forward or elsewhere for now.

Wintersday is on it’s way, and I’m curious as to what’s coming with it.

Dear Toymaker Tixx,

We would like to lodge a minor complaint about the last visit. Notably, it seems your present sort of exploded after we opened it. And then caught fire. This is an improvement from the previous year in which it caught fire and then exploded, so I hope this year we can avoid either exploding or fire altogether.

Little Johnny also would like to revise his list from last year that he does not want the “Logan Thackeray Seraph Sword and Shield” since he heard another child being called “Captain Runaway” over the summer. Instead he’d like a doll action figure of the Hero of Shaemoor.

As for Susan, she made me promise with a pinky swear to remind you most human young ladies do not understand a build-your-own-golem kit and she wound up trading it to a visiting asura for a Red Rytlock rifle. We are lucky she did not, in fact, put her eye out. She instead said she wants a wolf puppy she can train so she can be as cool as Eir and Garm.

(Amending my previous statement, please don’t bring one of those for Johnny either. He’s a better shot but I don’t want to encourage him picking on that Canthan boy who doesn’t celebrate Wintersday.)

And as a personal favor, please do not fire deliver your presents through the window again. We would prefer you instead leaving them on the front stoop, or on the roof if you must. (We will figure out a way of getting them down.)

Thank you for your time,
Madame Jubari

P.S: Just a reminder, the children will be leaving milk and cookies for your skritt workers. They are not leaving their bead necklaces for your skritt workers.

Rukia.4802:

“ArenaNet (sort of) held a hard line against all VP with GW1 — no VP ever, year after year — and it wasn’t that fun. It was stagnant.” -Mike O’brien, 11/27/12

http://www.reddit.com/user/Mike-OBrien-ArenaNet

What a fail reply by Mike O’brien. This just proves they don’t get it anymore. If they are wondering why GW died it’s because they completely abandoned all of us with no pvp balance or content to work on GW2 for YEARS. Anyone who actively played GW1 played it because IT HAD NO VP. Wow, is it seriously THAT HARD to get it through their heads? Jesus.

GW1 was NOT stagnant. I hate Mike O’brien with a passion now, I thought he was smarter than that. Just confirmation of the failure of GW2, it has no future with me.

My useless input?

Stagnant is a variable word and in a sense . . . yes. It was stagnant in one sense: the developers readily admitted they had no real idea what they could do further within the engine and design of the game. Hence they started GuildWars 2.

When the developers are unable to continue with a project it then is stagnant. They can add fun new little side things (and risk adding something which doesn’t work at all), they can try polishing what’s there (and risk of over-doing that) . . . but there’s no growth. It’s done expanding and reached the borders of what the developers can see.

No, GW1 was not a failure, it was a success. Wildly so, in fact. But there’s the classic problem of the question which follows a success:

“So what’s next?”

Meridian 59: 3DO’s sudden change in pricing pattern to a daily/weekly/monthly pattern. Then EverQuest came out.

Ultima Online: Trammel/Felucca Split, then it just kinda bled people over time.

EverQuest: Every Expansion ever after Scars of Velious saw people throw up their hands and leave. It got worse after Planes of Power. which was when I cut ties with my credit card. Reportedly it didn’t get real crazy until they decided to just rewrite lore on the fly to add in places and plots which wouldn’t have made sense with what went on previously.

Anything else I wasn’t around for, either because I’d quit earlier or I wasn’t playing the game. I have about a dozen more smaller MMOs I threw my time into for a while but they were less “obvious mistakes” and more “just didn’t do it”.

If there’s a top 5 list and GW2’s Lost Shores patch makes it, there’s a lot of older players of MMOs who would highly disagree.

See also the Minecraft fan meme: “Mojang goes out of business” to see how crazy this sort of statement can get

Lifelike.5862:

LordByron.8369:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

LordByron.8369:

an example of the flaws of “work for it” theory is this:

Player a is completely selfish, spent all his 3 hours farming the same mob beccause he found a loot too generous (or a minor exploit in a dungeon to make it easy).
If he goes to a dungeon he insults everyoen if they dont manage to do peed runs.

Plyer A gets rewarded

Player B helps actively community, helping low levels in dynamic events, attendingto wvwvw, and helps guildmates (but also strangers) to learn how to play in a dungeon, and helps people to gear.

Player B is punished because having worse drops, higher repair costs, less incomes and logistic costs….(see waypoint).

Player A meets player B in a dungeon OR wvwvw…one of them is profiting of equipment…

Player B leave the game
Player A goes on the forum saying AC is too easy and L2P etc etc etc….and he already got his legendary and is bored…..

Simple as that.

Well, one difference, does Player B realize he’s pretty much sacrificing “being the top dog” for how he chooses to do things? And if so, does he do it willingly or grudgingly?

Cause Player B pretty much encompasses me except for that higher repair costs bit – I rarely have to do full repairs outside of the two dungeon runs where I “lern 2 dodge traps” and hot action in WvW.

i do it quite happily……unless some elitist come son the forum insulting everyone and asking for nerfing ac drops and making it harder or because vertical progression is required….

I mean is like being fined because you help people…..that is too much for a GAME.

It’s just as bad when some casual elitist comes on the forum complaining about those ‘elitists’ who work for their gear, and demands to be able to achieve the same results for half the effort.

Lifelike, I’m still curious where you saw the grind in Minecraft, just out of perversity. Given I’m playing through a mod I might suggest on a server I help work on . . .

. . . I’m going to predict you’ll list the grind as “searching for those ever-elusive resources such as diamonds”.

EndlessDreamer.6780:

SHM.7628:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Tachenon.5270:

Flynch.6034:

The man spent 8 hours answering questions. I honestly don’t know what he could have said to appease you.

Well, he could have said “Everything we say is a lie.”

I imagine the reaction here would be something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuYbDP2kDfg

Actually, that’s probably pretty accurate…

I have perhaps grown cynical in my old age, but I tend to take anything and everything a game developer says (even the ones I like) with a cargo freighter (or two) of salt, so there’s not much he could have said beyond something like “Yeah, we intentionally mislead the horizontal GW1 type guys with our manifesto video and stuff so they’d buy the game, and now that we have their money we’re switching gears in an attempt to grab some quick cash from the folks out there who prefer the grindy vertical stuff and when that’s played out we’ll switch gears again and go for yet another crowd. Maybe even… your crowd! So stick around. Lots and lots of fun stuff yet to come!” that would have impressed me. Heck, if he’d said that I’d be tempted to spend moar $$$ on the game!

The only thing that stops me from laughing at this post is the realization people seriously expected malice where stupidity (even momentary stupidity) can explain it just as well. They had what they thought was a neat idea, developed it, and didn’t stop to think about the ramifications.

And it was after they proudly put it forth that it started to sink in . . . “oh no…”

Could they have known better? Probably, very much so. Unfortunately, this has happened, and it’s time to deal with it and move on. We can’t roll it back and pretend it never happened, we can’t not acknowledge it, because it did happen. And they made it clear they’re going forward with Ascended existing in the future, there’s not much changing that.

So it’s time to move on from it. Harsh, perhaps, but it’s okay if you want to leave over this. The game isn’t what you thought it would be, that’s fine. Go back to waiting for the one you want, just know this game is still here if you feel like coming back to kill time.

And you know what, if you are on my server or see me on an Overflow and don’t violently object to grouping up, I’ll happily go do some stuff with your group. All right? Fair enough?

Maybe it was stupidity on their part like you suggested. Perhaps it was just office politics. Like you said, its over. It’s time to either accept it or leave. However, Tachenon was right. Claiming that they didn’t stray from their manifesto and break their promises is another slap in the face. It happened. (a two year old could figure that out.)

No.

The strayed from YOUR interpretation of THEIR manifesto.

That is a big difference people don’t seem quite to be getting.

It no longer matters anymore what the difference is. Part of the community perceived this change, this betrayal, and as a whole the community fractured. Whether they were wrong, right, deluded, prescient . . . it does not matter. It happened, it’s done.

What matters more is:

“So what do we do about it?”

Lifelike.5862:

Actually, Minecraft has progressive gear and grinding too, for whoever brought it up as an example.

. . . explain it for the class please? Because I think I know what you refer to as “grinding” in that game and I tentatively agree it exists.

LordByron.8369:

an example of the flaws of “work for it” theory is this:

Player a is completely selfish, spent all his 3 hours farming the same mob beccause he found a loot too generous (or a minor exploit in a dungeon to make it easy).
If he goes to a dungeon he insults everyoen if they dont manage to do peed runs.

Plyer A gets rewarded

Player B helps actively community, helping low levels in dynamic events, attendingto wvwvw, and helps guildmates (but also strangers) to learn how to play in a dungeon, and helps people to gear.

Player B is punished because having worse drops, higher repair costs, less incomes and logistic costs….(see waypoint).

Player A meets player B in a dungeon OR wvwvw…one of them is profiting of equipment…

Player B leave the game
Player A goes on the forum saying AC is too easy and L2P etc etc etc….and he already got his legendary and is bored…..

Simple as that.

Well, one difference, does Player B realize he’s pretty much sacrificing “being the top dog” for how he chooses to do things? And if so, does he do it willingly or grudgingly?

Cause Player B pretty much encompasses me except for that higher repair costs bit – I rarely have to do full repairs outside of the two dungeon runs where I “lern 2 dodge traps” and hot action in WvW.

It’s primarily been increasing when I’m in Overflows or extra-busy areas. Or if it’s been more than twelve hours since my last restart . . . given the power grid where I am has been not exactly stable I mostly have taken to turning my system off if I’m not intending to be back in an hour.

Nabbis.5784:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

RedBaron.6058:

To create the so called perfect MMO you need a vision.

A vision for at least 10 years.

You need to plan the game to start with a core of things and keep evolving in all aspects. Players need to be part of that evolution.

The problem nowadays is that the cash cow model imperates. Develop a game for a few years with a relatively small team or in less time with a bigger team, with awesome PR generating enormous amounts of hype, launch it cashing in millions of games sold and maintaining it alive for 3 months until you reach break even plus a % of revenue and then decide if it is worthy to invest in the game or let it die slowly by having a reduced team and lots of automatic managing systems running it until servers closure.

Of course that to produce a good and enduring MMO you need firm funding and brave investors that share the vision and the belief in the game.

But right now, I feel the MMO community will play for 2 or 3 months almost all the games they can throw at us and the game companies are surfing that wave. When they feel the need to produce better and lasting games they will do it but it will be us that have to trigger that..:)

Best regards,

Red

I think it’d take longer than ten years for a simple reason . . .

You can say 10 years to work out the material but the world still passes and evolves outside the box of the design group. You spend 10 years making a game and staying sequestered so you can get it done, you’re going to get a game which is out of date. A game started in 2002 and released this year would probably either reflect what idea started in 2002 and remained unchanged through the process . . . or something that was changed in the process as new tools / hardware / methods came along in the industry.

However, a 2 to 3 year leadtime would be just enough time to get the game finished before the next step on the “tech gear treadmill” which is the gaming industry’s pursuit of graphics and processing power

Runescape has proven that technology is largely irrelevant for the success of a game. Regardless of what you think about the game, its a MMO with crap graphics and a very large playerbase.

Not just Runescape, Minecraft has . . . and this is said by a lot . . . crap graphics but is immensely popular. BUT . . . it’s one of those things which can collect negative notations enough until it is seen as a problem by a wider audience.

And I bring it up . . . yet again . . . Nethack has NOT changed technology wise since it was released into the wild. On the other hand, that game does not have the widespread success of this theoretically perfect MMORPG. Probably because it is a roguelike and that means many . . . many . . . many people aren’t going to succeed at it.

Galen Grey.4709:

Jairyn.6913:

A good way to rapidly generate additional content is to host player generated content as exemplified by the Neverwinter Nights toolset or Architect Entertainment in City of Heroes. I believe some other MMOs (EQ2? STO?) also leverage this feature.

Of course, AE in CoH was also an example of players abusing this feature to gain unexpected amounts of xp and currency and needed to be checked, so a token/currency system would still probably work better then awarding singular items. The real appeal there is the novelty of different scripted experiences and player storytelling. Free content.

In theory, a robust system of cascading dynamic events and meta events that breadcrumb through the world and/or randomized instanced dungeons a la Diablo or City of Heroes could also provide a great deal of replayable content that remains somewhat fresher.

ohh that would be soooooo amazing!

but fear the chaos it might cause as the same time

There’s a way to do it, but . . . it’s not easy.

Organize a guild or guild alliance across several servers to put together scripts and player-run dynamic events not based upon combat (except perhaps for a WvW presence if you can manage it – not recommended). Sink the time and money of players into generating what amounts to non-canon interpretations of lore and events and rewarding people for figuring out mysteries or such.

In short – start and actually seriously fund a roleplaying group.

Levetty.1279:

Flynch.6034:

There is no power-creep. They have stated what is, and what will be. If you are not satisfied with the transparency then that is 100% your issue, as many, many, others are satisfied with the AMA.

How is there no power creep? They are adding gear with higher stats in it. They have also said better infusions wold be coming. If you look at it the game was quite obviously made with exotics to be the highest level and even then the downscaling can barely keep up with level 80s in exotics and will do nothing to level 80s in ascended coming back to Orr or frostgorge.

Also look at Ranger’s Pets, they were given stats based around the role they were supposed to fill in an exotic gear level but they don’t scale and so will get no benefit from ascended gear, meaning they will do less damage in comparison to other classes, and take more. So not only do we have power creep but we have a power creep that is leaving at least one class behind.

Ranger pets didn’t scale well anyway, which was one of the . . . many . . . issues with the class many have talked with me at length about. Usually starting with: “why are you playing a ranger? They stink”

RedBaron.6058:

To create the so called perfect MMO you need a vision.

A vision for at least 10 years.

You need to plan the game to start with a core of things and keep evolving in all aspects. Players need to be part of that evolution.

The problem nowadays is that the cash cow model imperates. Develop a game for a few years with a relatively small team or in less time with a bigger team, with awesome PR generating enormous amounts of hype, launch it cashing in millions of games sold and maintaining it alive for 3 months until you reach break even plus a % of revenue and then decide if it is worthy to invest in the game or let it die slowly by having a reduced team and lots of automatic managing systems running it until servers closure.

Of course that to produce a good and enduring MMO you need firm funding and brave investors that share the vision and the belief in the game.

But right now, I feel the MMO community will play for 2 or 3 months almost all the games they can throw at us and the game companies are surfing that wave. When they feel the need to produce better and lasting games they will do it but it will be us that have to trigger that..:)

Best regards,

Red

I think it’d take longer than ten years for a simple reason . . .

You can say 10 years to work out the material but the world still passes and evolves outside the box of the design group. You spend 10 years making a game and staying sequestered so you can get it done, you’re going to get a game which is out of date. A game started in 2002 and released this year would probably either reflect what idea started in 2002 and remained unchanged through the process . . . or something that was changed in the process as new tools / hardware / methods came along in the industry.

However, a 2 to 3 year leadtime would be just enough time to get the game finished before the next step on the “tech gear treadmill” which is the gaming industry’s pursuit of graphics and processing power

Apathy.6430:

Nabbis.5784:

Do you get anything in Counter-Strike, Battlefield 1942 or Minecraft for playing them? No. They are simply fun. I wait for the day when MMO developers will start taking risks and implement a system that will truly focus on fun instead of grind.

The problem with this, is that RPG content can never continue being fun. CS, Battlefield, and CoD are “fun” (using this term loosely) because they are competitive, and no two enemies are always the same and encounters are different each and every time.

Minecraft is fun in the same way that Lego’s are fun. It appeals to a different section of your psych than most other games, and that part likely cannot be appealed to in the scope of an MMO, though I’ve pitched a few ideas to my co-workers and other designers about how to translate it into an MMO, but nothing has come of it yet.

RPG content is stagnant and cannot continue being fun for the sake of fun. Gear grinds are intended to keep people hooked long enough for new content to be designed. You mention Skyrim in your post…how many hours did you play Skyrim? 100? 200?. I personally played it around 150 hours. I thoroughly enjoyed it…but there’s no reason to go back to playing it, even with the new DLCs.

The only way for this to be countered is user-generated content…but there’s many implications with that. EVE is the closest example to a successful user-generated game, but translating that into a standard MMO format is near impossible.

Strange you mention Minecraft. The only way I go back to it now is if I want to build something in particular, I have a friend’s server to play on with them, or I try out the mods available.

Playing the game as is, straight from the box has lost the massive appeal to me it once had. Mostly due to about 75% of it being stuff I’ve already done and required an enormous amount of time investment to do safely. I’m still a good distance from doing the two boss fights currently in game :P

Apathy.6430:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

subseven.6950:

GW2 my friends…is nowhere near the perfect MMO. Can’t even live up to it’s name.

. . . a perfect video game cannot exist. It is just that simple.

This is actually something I’ve came to realize in my many discussions with co-workers and fellow developers.

Every mechanic and system has aspects that are good and bad. Some good mechanics are polar opposites of other good mechanics.

It is a beautiful sight when a studio puts together complementing mechanics that mesh extraordinarily well together…but it will never be perfect, just like there will never be a perfect movie or a perfect painting.

There can be a “technically” perfect movie, painting, or game. Where everything is executed with the proper timing, touch, finesse, and the pieces work together in harmony so great you never see the seams or the cracks to dispel your disbelief.

But perfect on the technical aspects does not make it perfect overall. Perfection is an ideal to strive for, not a reality.

subseven.6950:

GW2 my friends…is nowhere near the perfect MMO. Can’t even live up to it’s name.

. . . a perfect video game cannot exist. It is just that simple.

Razarei.2809:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

beren.6048:

Ditton.3149:

….

He said in a post that class changes, balances, bugs, PvP and WvW were all handled by a different department and he didnt want to give answers he was not sure of, but would try to get separate AMA’s for all of those parts of the game as well.

Hopefully then they ll still answer the most important question E7, I would really dislike it if the new story also contains Trahearne.

If Trahearne isn’t dead, it’s likely he will be contained within it simply by still existing. However, his task is done with the events in Orr; if it turns to Jormag you’ll probably have a norn step into the role . . . if it turns to Kralkatorrik, someone different. Et cetera.

I happen to like Trehearne’s voice. It’s very eloquent. However, seeing him move makes me want to peel off each of his leaves until he ceases to exist.

That’s a sylvari thing, I think.

RedBaron.6058:

Hello all,

The best MMO ever will use extensively player designed content and will allow players to have a real impact in the world around them. Will be a permanently changeable world, with immense maps for exploration/adventure and permanent conflict areas directly impacting the players life in-game like not having access to cities/areas/dungeons/etc unless you conquer them.

Will allow players to be whatever they like, to develop the skills they want with no defined classes or weapons or gear. You can develop any skills and train in whatever weapon suits you and wear whatever armor gives you advantage for your chosen skills/weapon combat style.

Will have land, sea and aerial combat (on vessels, mounts or creatures).

The crafting system will allow you to create an infinity of armor and weapons skins (combining partial skins from a in-game library always in constant evolution) with adequate stats to balance the game.

Will have GM’s permanently in-game, playing the game alongside players and starting out a multitude of events with variable rewards, kicking bots and being part of the community. Why do we generally have permanent staff managing the forums and do not have permanent staff playing the game identified as GM’s? After all the game is the top priority.

This will demand a huge team of permanent staff for the game to be always fresh and continuously renewed.

The only way of doing it is to introduce a new model of business for MMO’s, that I forecast will be the future: Subscription + Gem shop.

With both options, the company will guarantee a constant revenue plus a variable revenue that hopefully (if the game keeps high standards) will fund my proposed model.

This model will balance the unique currency of any MMO: available TIME.

Thank you and best regards,

Red

There isn’t enough time in the world to provide it.

There’s three obvious/big limiting factors for game development: the time you have to work on it, and the amount of money you have to throw at it, and the amount of staff available to write it.

Even if you assumed they had all the funding they could need, and as much time as was needed to put this out . . . the staff requirement would be astronomical to get it out within any sane timeframe. And then the staff requirement to actually run the game actually increases over time.

And I really doubt there is a way to secure all three in limitless amounts – time, money, and personnel. So, any game on this list of criteria is very likely impossible and is going to compromise somewhere . . . and then it won’t be perfect.

beren.6048:

Ditton.3149:

….

He said in a post that class changes, balances, bugs, PvP and WvW were all handled by a different department and he didnt want to give answers he was not sure of, but would try to get separate AMA’s for all of those parts of the game as well.

Hopefully then they ll still answer the most important question E7, I would really dislike it if the new story also contains Trahearne.

If Trahearne isn’t dead, it’s likely he will be contained within it simply by still existing. However, his task is done with the events in Orr; if it turns to Jormag you’ll probably have a norn step into the role . . . if it turns to Kralkatorrik, someone different. Et cetera.

Red Falcon.8257:

There is no MMO, and there will prolly never be during our life, that gives you unique content every single time you play it.
Sorry OP, it would take terabytes of terabytes of space and decades to be completed.

You can have a varied challenge with different difficulties (which lead to different spawns etc), with many differenth paths etc…. but there is no such thing as unlimited new content in PvE.

Well, “unique content” is an odd statement. Do you mean to say it’s content you never saw before? Then a procedural-generated world would technically fill that, owing to the fact it would be different every time you played. Still the same game, with a limited pool of items/monsters/possible actions.

However it may be what engineers would jokingly call a “nontrivial task” to make a game where it was new with more than that each time you started it up. I don’t think that is currently possible, except by taking a very narrow definition of “new content” to mean “consistent world shape and item distribution”.

Illiander.8049:

Well, they’ve contradicted themselves in their answers already, so I don’t think I’ll believe anything they say:

4: Ascended Gear is designed to fill the ‘Time’ gap in regard to the distance between exotic and Legendary in terms of progression.

9: With regard to minimal Grind, how is going from 5 Ectos to 50 Ectos for a piece of gear minimal? 5 T6 items to 250 T6 items, minimal?
9: Good point Nacho. We are currently discussing these particular items and it is fair to say that we don’t want have such big hikes in requirements moving forward.

So they say that they want Ascended gear to be hard to get, but that they don’t want it to be hard to get. Right. Life of a PR mouthpiece I suppose.

Try this:

“We wanted Ascended gear to not be easy to obtain, but we kinda overshot the mark. We’re looking at it again, stay tuned.”

Which means, naturally, they may decide “heck with it, just leave it, it’s not worth riling the community up yet again”.

I don’t have to give them a second chance, I was dubious/skeptical of the doomsayers enough not to have failed them on the first chance.

That said . . . I’m now skeptical/dubious ArenaNet can pull off the balancing act they hinted at wanting to pull over the course of the future. Again, I’ll leave when it’s no more fun to play; I might be back, I might not, depends on why it’s no more fun to play.

tkalamba.2541:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Edge.4180:

I’m a little disappointed that questions regarding grinding, ascended gear, and ANet’s philosophy on those two points seem to be dominating most of the Q&A. It’s like.. how many ways can the same questions be asked and answered? Let’s move on to something else, already.

Edge, I think they’re trying to ask the question in multiple structures to try to see if the answers are inconsistent. It’s like those psych evaluations you fill out as you apply for a job asking:

“33. Agree or disagree: It is okay to bend the rules once in a while.”
“72. Agree or disagree: Policy must be followed at all times.”

You could be right, but they are wasting everyone’s time. Many people want other questions, completely unrelated to the patch answered. People should start reading the thread and already answered questions.

I know, I’m waiting to see if he hits mine on Ranger pets. My poor lynx needs something to keep Champions or dungeon bosses from practically one-shotting him

Edge.4180:

I’m a little disappointed that questions regarding grinding, ascended gear, and ANet’s philosophy on those two points seem to be dominating most of the Q&A. It’s like.. how many ways can the same questions be asked and answered? Let’s move on to something else, already.

Edge, I think they’re trying to ask the question in multiple structures to try to see if the answers are inconsistent. It’s like those psych evaluations you fill out as you apply for a job asking:

“33. Agree or disagree: It is okay to bend the rules once in a while.”
“72. Agree or disagree: Policy must be followed at all times.”

Shieldbreaker.4012:

Ditton.3149:

With what they think its DNA is. DNA is composed mostly of host material IE parental. So what you are saying is you want it to evolve from GW1..alot of people believe it or not didnt play or like Gw1 and they want GW2 to be its own creature entirely. You are presenting the manifesto which was a blog or journal created two years ago during development as the building blocks for the entire game, I find them at best a guide line.

Go into a restaraunt, look at the menu, and order a meal. When the meal that arrives is something different from what you ordered, just remember that the menu is just a guideline, it was created before that meal was prepared. Don’t forget to tip.

Well if the meal doesn’t match the picture exactly, you are perfectly justified to demand to see the manager for a discount and a new plate. At least, that’s what the guests I had to wait on were certain of . . .

Alberel Leonhart.9640:

Tachenon.5270:

If this has been asked and answered I apologize, I haven’t seen it, but was there was any mention of Ascended Gear and/or vertical progression before the game was released? I mean something specific that would have let people know without a doubt that another tier of gear and/or vertical progression was coming, and that it was part of the overall plan all along? Are there any quotes out there from before launch stating this?

No there wasn’t. They made it pretty clear pre-launch that the game’s entire progression model was built around aesthetics instead of stats. Everything that’s being said in the AMA is PR spin, that’s why Chris has to keep disappearing between each answer- so the PR team can edit his responses.

There was something . . . let me hunt it up.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13tuac/im_the_studio_design_director_on_guild_wars_2_ama/c776dmy

And

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13tuac/im_the_studio_design_director_on_guild_wars_2_ama/c774er8

Not entirely what you asked for, but the closest you’re probably going to get.

“First of all in retrospect it would have been better to have included Ascended Gear at launch. It is designed to give users a progression path that is between Exotic and Legendary (Legendary Items will be at the same power level as Ascended) and the gap between them in terms of time is very large.”

“Ascended Gear is designed to fill the ‘Time’ gap in regard to the distance between exotic and Legendary in terms of progression and in retrospect would have been better to have been rolled out pre launch.”

There you go. Discuss at leisure

Ualtar.5047:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It’s still optimism and that’s a forbidden no-no.

Sadly it does seem like optimism just gets you yelled at here. I love this game, and am optimistic that it will be good for years to come.

I think it will be good for years to come, also. How many years is up for debate . . .

And in case it’s not, someone help me measure out some stuff in meters. I have Minecraft and a desire to memorialize Divinity’s Reach.

Strang.8170:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I live in a strange world. It’s called “cautious optimism”.

I see,
you know, that´s a real problem with me, discerning between “cautious” and “unbased”

It’s all about intent. If it was “unbased optimism” then I’d be expecting them to do no wrong even as they were stealing my puppy and dragging me behind the car. (“Well they’ll have to stop sometime!”

Cautious optimism is where I believe what someone has to say so long as I can’t see a difference. (“Yes, okay, the car ride is going to be to Florida. Is that why we’re headed west?”)

Of course, since you can’t see into my head and you have no reason to believe what I say anyway about what I think, why should you care? It’s still optimism and that’s a forbidden no-no.

Strang.8170:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Take your pick, I only accept #3 because I assume they wouldn’t bother lying about it blatantly if it was true,

Please….

It´s videogame industry, blatantly lying about things is the bread and butter. I´m not saying this is the case but being as naive as to think that people who have their monetary gain on the line only wish for the best of you is just…well naive

I didn’t say they want the best for me. I said they could come up with a much better lie or dissemblance if they wanted to. I also have the naive belief that people don’t always lie from both sides of their mouth, any time they open it.

I live in a strange world. It’s called “cautious optimism”.

tkalamba.2541:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

arcaneclarity.5283:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

arcaneclarity.5283:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

arcaneclarity.5283:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

arcaneclarity.5283:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

arcaneclarity.5283:

grumbles.5412:

I’m curious if the implementation was such a mistake and so many aspects around ascended gear was done wrongly and they knew it wasn’t how they wanted to go about doing things Why did they push it through?

Never used Reddit so perhaps someone could ask this for me.

It was already asked, twice. Both times it was ignored.

I think it should be ignored; there are very few times when a company should air out who . . . exactly . . . made what decision . . . precisely . . . just because someone asks. All that needs to be said is “that decision was made, it was a mistake, we’re hoping to rectify it”.

They already admitted it was not implemented well, they’ll try to fix it and try to not repeat this in the future. Asking for someone specific to lay the blame on is . . . a little petty.

Except the issue isn’t about implementation, it is about the fact that it exists at all. The whole idea that it wasn’t implemented well is a poor deflection.

The issue about “so whose idea was it” isn’t about implementation either, it’s about assigning blame to one person after pretty much the team said “yes, that’s on us”.

Notice the original post. Why did they push it through? It’s interesting that you are trying to deflect this specific conversation.

. . . maybe because at this point the “why” isn’t as important as the fact that it happened? That this fallout fractured the community and made so many people upset at ArenaNet or specific people within their employ. That they’re left in this position where there is a very real possibility this game is going to be bombed out of existence by people unhappy with this, and their work on this is wasted.

“Why?” is the least of my concerns. “What are you folks going to do about it?” is what I think is the most important thing.

. . . and I meant ArenaNet, not you.

That why is very important. If that why is because Nexon purchased 14.% of NCsoft, then there is zero hope ArenaNet will see the error of their ways and we can just move on quietly.

Ah! Well, that could be important to you, very well . . .

They did answer that:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13tuac/im_the_studio_design_director_on_guild_wars_2_ama/c777tvi

That didn’t really answer it. Nexon would have pushed on NCsoft, and NCsoft would have pushed ArenaNet. There would never have been any contact between Nexon and ArenaNet.

It’s certainly plausible, but there are three options now:

- They’re lying outright and Nexon does indeed have a say. They know Nexon has a say, and it is unavoidable.
- They don’t know if Nexon has a say since it would route through NCsoft. So their statement is correct only in the way that they are unaware of it.
- They’re correct entirely and Nexon has nothing to do with how ArenaNet develops content.

Take your pick, I only accept #3 because I assume they wouldn’t bother lying about it blatantly if it was true, only answer it with a further nonanswer such as “there are no Nexon representitives currently in this office today”.

From what I understood, the stake Nexon has is nowhere enough to be considered a controlling share of the company. They won’t really be able to dictate the state of the game. They just stand to make some profit if it is successful.

That’s what I understand, but I don’t understand boardroom politics (or else I’d probably be on one now going for that controlling interest). Most people are throwing around that they own the largest single pool of shares, but they still only have something like 14.7%?

It doesn’t seem like that’d be able to control anything unless they could bully or throw their weight around with it . . . which would probably work for too long if it was done repeatedly.

Then again – I don’t know boardroom politics.

arcaneclarity.5283:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

arcaneclarity.5283:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

arcaneclarity.5283:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

arcaneclarity.5283:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

arcaneclarity.5283:

grumbles.5412:

I’m curious if the implementation was such a mistake and so many aspects around ascended gear was done wrongly and they knew it wasn’t how they wanted to go about doing things Why did they push it through?

Never used Reddit so perhaps someone could ask this for me.

It was already asked, twice. Both times it was ignored.

I think it should be ignored; there are very few times when a company should air out who . . . exactly . . . made what decision . . . precisely . . . just because someone asks. All that needs to be said is “that decision was made, it was a mistake, we’re hoping to rectify it”.

They already admitted it was not implemented well, they’ll try to fix it and try to not repeat this in the future. Asking for someone specific to lay the blame on is . . . a little petty.

Except the issue isn’t about implementation, it is about the fact that it exists at all. The whole idea that it wasn’t implemented well is a poor deflection.

The issue about “so whose idea was it” isn’t about implementation either, it’s about assigning blame to one person after pretty much the team said “yes, that’s on us”.

Notice the original post. Why did they push it through? It’s interesting that you are trying to deflect this specific conversation.

. . . maybe because at this point the “why” isn’t as important as the fact that it happened? That this fallout fractured the community and made so many people upset at ArenaNet or specific people within their employ. That they’re left in this position where there is a very real possibility this game is going to be bombed out of existence by people unhappy with this, and their work on this is wasted.

“Why?” is the least of my concerns. “What are you folks going to do about it?” is what I think is the most important thing.

. . . and I meant ArenaNet, not you.

That why is very important. If that why is because Nexon purchased 14.% of NCsoft, then there is zero hope ArenaNet will see the error of their ways and we can just move on quietly.

Ah! Well, that could be important to you, very well . . .

They did answer that:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13tuac/im_the_studio_design_director_on_guild_wars_2_ama/c777tvi

That didn’t really answer it. Nexon would have pushed on NCsoft, and NCsoft would have pushed ArenaNet. There would never have been any contact between Nexon and ArenaNet.

It’s certainly plausible, but there are three options now:

- They’re lying outright and Nexon does indeed have a say. They know Nexon has a say, and it is unavoidable.
- They don’t know if Nexon has a say since it would route through NCsoft. So their statement is correct only in the way that they are unaware of it.
- They’re correct entirely and Nexon has nothing to do with how ArenaNet develops content.

Take your pick, I only accept #3 because I assume they wouldn’t bother lying about it blatantly if it was true, only answer it with a further nonanswer such as “there are no Nexon representitives currently in this office today”.

arcaneclarity.5283:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

arcaneclarity.5283:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

arcaneclarity.5283:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

arcaneclarity.5283:

grumbles.5412:

I’m curious if the implementation was such a mistake and so many aspects around ascended gear was done wrongly and they knew it wasn’t how they wanted to go about doing things Why did they push it through?

Never used Reddit so perhaps someone could ask this for me.

It was already asked, twice. Both times it was ignored.

I think it should be ignored; there are very few times when a company should air out who . . . exactly . . . made what decision . . . precisely . . . just because someone asks. All that needs to be said is “that decision was made, it was a mistake, we’re hoping to rectify it”.

They already admitted it was not implemented well, they’ll try to fix it and try to not repeat this in the future. Asking for someone specific to lay the blame on is . . . a little petty.

Except the issue isn’t about implementation, it is about the fact that it exists at all. The whole idea that it wasn’t implemented well is a poor deflection.

The issue about “so whose idea was it” isn’t about implementation either, it’s about assigning blame to one person after pretty much the team said “yes, that’s on us”.

Notice the original post. Why did they push it through? It’s interesting that you are trying to deflect this specific conversation.

. . . maybe because at this point the “why” isn’t as important as the fact that it happened? That this fallout fractured the community and made so many people upset at ArenaNet or specific people within their employ. That they’re left in this position where there is a very real possibility this game is going to be bombed out of existence by people unhappy with this, and their work on this is wasted.

“Why?” is the least of my concerns. “What are you folks going to do about it?” is what I think is the most important thing.

. . . and I meant ArenaNet, not you.

That why is very important. If that why is because Nexon purchased 14.% of NCsoft, then there is zero hope ArenaNet will see the error of their ways and we can just move on quietly.

Ah! Well, that could be important to you, very well . . .

They did answer that:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13tuac/im_the_studio_design_director_on_guild_wars_2_ama/c777tvi

arcaneclarity.5283:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

arcaneclarity.5283:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

arcaneclarity.5283:

grumbles.5412:

I’m curious if the implementation was such a mistake and so many aspects around ascended gear was done wrongly and they knew it wasn’t how they wanted to go about doing things Why did they push it through?

Never used Reddit so perhaps someone could ask this for me.

It was already asked, twice. Both times it was ignored.

I think it should be ignored; there are very few times when a company should air out who . . . exactly . . . made what decision . . . precisely . . . just because someone asks. All that needs to be said is “that decision was made, it was a mistake, we’re hoping to rectify it”.

They already admitted it was not implemented well, they’ll try to fix it and try to not repeat this in the future. Asking for someone specific to lay the blame on is . . . a little petty.

Except the issue isn’t about implementation, it is about the fact that it exists at all. The whole idea that it wasn’t implemented well is a poor deflection.

The issue about “so whose idea was it” isn’t about implementation either, it’s about assigning blame to one person after pretty much the team said “yes, that’s on us”.

Notice the original post. Why did they push it through? It’s interesting that you are trying to deflect this specific conversation.

. . . maybe because at this point the “why” isn’t as important as the fact that it happened? That this fallout fractured the community and made so many people upset at ArenaNet or specific people within their employ. That they’re left in this position where there is a very real possibility this game is going to be bombed out of existence by people unhappy with this, and their work on this is wasted.

“Why?” is the least of my concerns. “What are you folks going to do about it?” is what I think is the most important thing.

. . . and I meant ArenaNet, not you.

arcaneclarity.5283:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

arcaneclarity.5283:

grumbles.5412:

I’m curious if the implementation was such a mistake and so many aspects around ascended gear was done wrongly and they knew it wasn’t how they wanted to go about doing things Why did they push it through?

Never used Reddit so perhaps someone could ask this for me.

It was already asked, twice. Both times it was ignored.

I think it should be ignored; there are very few times when a company should air out who . . . exactly . . . made what decision . . . precisely . . . just because someone asks. All that needs to be said is “that decision was made, it was a mistake, we’re hoping to rectify it”.

They already admitted it was not implemented well, they’ll try to fix it and try to not repeat this in the future. Asking for someone specific to lay the blame on is . . . a little petty.

Except the issue isn’t about implementation, it is about the fact that it exists at all. The whole idea that it wasn’t implemented well is a poor deflection.

The issue about “so whose idea was it” isn’t about implementation either, it’s about assigning blame to one person after pretty much the team said “yes, that’s on us”.

arcaneclarity.5283:

Horrorscope.7632:

Karizee.8076:

Also, a vocal minority cannot overtake Reddit, they would get downvoted to oblivion.
Valid concerns of the majority of players will naturally rise to the top.

Would you say their concerns there are pretty much in line with those stated at the Official Forum for GW2 here?

Pretty much mirrors it. In fact, I think there’s even more vitriol since they aren’t censored by moderators.

Difference is on Reddit, someone can much more easily put together several extra accounts and appear as a crowd of like-minded people.

arcaneclarity.5283:

grumbles.5412:

I’m curious if the implementation was such a mistake and so many aspects around ascended gear was done wrongly and they knew it wasn’t how they wanted to go about doing things Why did they push it through?

Never used Reddit so perhaps someone could ask this for me.

It was already asked, twice. Both times it was ignored.

I think it should be ignored; there are very few times when a company should air out who . . . exactly . . . made what decision . . . precisely . . . just because someone asks. All that needs to be said is “that decision was made, it was a mistake, we’re hoping to rectify it”.

They already admitted it was not implemented well, they’ll try to fix it and try to not repeat this in the future. Asking for someone specific to lay the blame on is . . . a little petty.

wildcode.5403:

Karizee.8076:

Also, a vocal minority cannot overtake Reddit, they would get downvoted to oblivion.
Valid concerns of the majority of players will naturally rise to the top.

What about the minority that need to have an issue addressed that is game breaking for them?

Given how Reddit is set up, any reply to his first post “Hi, I’m here!” is going to show up in his new messages. He’ll either get to it as he has time, or will wind up bogged down by being repeatedly asked the definition of “grind” until he has no more time left.

. . . no, i’m not kidding, that question got repeatedly asked. In many different phrasings, as if trying to get him to give two inconsistent answers.

Logun.2349:

I’m reading through the answers and all I hear is a soft peddle of “we screwed up”. What I don’t understand is how just about any veteran MMO player on the planet could have predicted how this patch was going to impact the community and the game, yet it got released.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-New-GW2-Flavor-Rocks/first

So I just have 2 questions left. When are you going to fix this mess you made, and how can I trust that you’re not going to lose all common sense again?

Arena Net, Congratulations you have simultaneously taught aspiring game designers how to drill down a genre, dissect it, and find solutions to its core flaws, ….. and how to completely 9/11 a game in 3 months with a single half baked patch.

They’re not going to fix the mess, if you mean the fractured community. And you can’t trust them anymore if you asked that question. No matter what they tell you, the doubt is there now. It’s not going away, as unfortunate as it may be. You can embrace the doubt, and be skeptical about anything they say ever from now until they cease to be . . . or you can accept what they say until it turns out to be false. Or you can mix it up, naturally, depending on your own judgement.

Either way, they can’t just wave a magic phrase and restore your trust back to before it was broken. That’s up to you.

Rococo.8347:

Im putting money on moving and forward being among Chris’s favourite words

Maybe we should attach a drinking game to it ;D

“Moving forward” is a safe way of saying any or all of the following:

- We’ll continue making the game as we intend.
- We’ll make changes according to fan reactions
- We won’t simply shut down the game, it will continue being online.
- We won’t be making any changes at all, merely leaving the servers online until we go broke.

morrolan.9608:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

GuildWars 2 has grind.

I don’t even need to go to another game to tell you that. It has grind, however infinitesimal,

Its not infinitesimal though.

I didn’t insist it was infinitesimal, I said “however infinitesimal” . . . like everyone else I’m trying to choose my phrasing very carefully. You can go ahead and change that to “it has grind, no matter how much” if you like to see if that’s clearer any.

I can’t value their grind, because as some other people pointed out – everyone has a different threshold from “okay, reasonable amount of effort” as opposed to “grind-o-rama! get your coffee beans!”. For me, it’s at one level. For others, that level is different.

Meaning, that universally, there is “some grind” present because someone is going to say they find it “grind-y”. For me? Legendaries are a little grind-y. (Okay, a bit more than that, but considering their place? I think it’s warranted. Other people may not think so. There’s where the friction comes in.)

Penguin.5197:

My definition of grind is probably slightly different by yours, but it seems that by your definition every game has grind. From just leveling up in pokemon, racing to get that next car and so on. So to have a “no grind” game how would you have done it (what were your expectations from the manifesto)? The closest I can think of is just to give out everything free to everyone, since working for something seems to be a grind as minimal as it may be.

Oh gods above Pokemon leveling is a grind. It’s been YEARS and I still haven’t completed that grind and all I need to do anymore is turn it on and pound out levels. In Dragon Quest, leveling or earning gold is a grind. In Final Fantasy, grinding is expected of you and almost required to weather the last half of the game. Of course, in those games we sort of accept it is going to happen. We’re never very happy about it. (“Okay, on to the Gold Golem farm near Rimuladar Wish me luck. Send food after an hour.”)

Heck, even one of what I consider the best games I ever played . . . the original Legend of Zelda, had its share of grind. (BLUE. RING.) You could short-cut it if you knew how but in essence, still a grind even if you cheated past it.

. . . and to go further, even Minecraft has grind. Yes. It does. And if any of you played it on Survival/Hardcore you know what grind I mean.

How would I design a game? I’m not a game developer, so I can’t answer that. I’m also so used to the idea of RPGs which have a grind somewhere in them that I don’t think I could leave it out. (I could, but people would probably find one anyway, which snuck in through my subconscious.)

I could go on to craft a game in broad strokes right here, and I bet you ten gold there will be three people figuring out how to grind it in an hour after I could make it reality. You know why? Any game wherein entities or items respawn will be subjected to grind mentality.

arcaneclarity.5283:

Chris was sent out for damage control. It isn’t working.

Either as damage control or the lightning rod, and it’s an even wager between the two at this point.

Razarei.2809:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Penguin.5197:

wildcode.5403:

My favorate quote of the day is “no grind” … I want to play his version of Guild Wars 2, because in my version, I even have to grind for exotic gear … whether it be for crafting materials, or for coin to buy crafting materials, I still have to grind, and even more so with the drop rate bug.

Go play any f2p game, try to get to lvl100 then come back to guild wars and tell me guild wars has grind.

I used to play a f2p game before, would take like a month to go up one level at the higher level ranges. And only after killing groups of mobs thousands of times.

GuildWars 2 has grind.

I don’t even need to go to another game to tell you that. It has grind, however infinitesimal, and the intent was not to try to make it never be there but to make it within a certain curve where they figured it would work out. It’s pretty clear to me they knew some people were going to perceive various things as grind, or gear treadmills, and bit the bullet to try to keep it in bounds.

Which winds up leaving absolutely everyone open to crucify them for a compromise. Any grind is not no grind and you ‘promised’ no grind. Don’t say you never promised, we have you right here on tape saying that’s your belief. Can’t change your words now, and if you try to clarify what you said or explain it we’ll just take that and tear you apart with it too.

I said it in the other threads – there really was no good way for this to end. No matter what they said today, no matter what they agreed upon or apologized for, it was going to do nothing but be heard any way the listeners wanted to hear. Like in my case, I wanted to hear “we screwed up, and we’re sorry” and that seems to be what I read.

This is true. My views aren’t exactly the same as yours, but I don’t understand why people are so narrow minded. There is just no pleasing some people is there?

To be more accurate:

You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time.

teviko.6049:

@Karizee

Thanks for that graph. All it did was prove me right. I said the prices will fluxate…which means they will go up and down, but ultimately, the prices are TRENDING upwards. And between oct 28th to Nov 11th..it plateaued (evened out) but that flat rate was still far above the average than it was when the game first released. And since Nov 11th..the prices have exploded, and are trending upwards quickly…

When I mean have prices come down, what I mean is…is does it come down below a mean…a statistical average. Then no, it has not. It fluxuates, but the mean does not decrease it either evens out or goes up. When I began the game, the ‘average’ was 24s for 100 gems. Back in August…

In Oct/Nov, the mean was 74s…

Thats huge.

The game had also been out not that long in August. More people on all the servers means the trend will go upwards. More people pushing more activity through the Gem for/to Gold means it will trend upwards as a natural consequence of increased activity.

. . . someone who’s an economist tell me if I’m right?