Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
(edited by TooBz.3065)
I don’t think anyone is going to bother with the portal. It costs about 3 gold to make 1 and it’s single use.
It’s more like a joke on people who wanted to give a portal to other classes.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Why hasn’t this come up more often during this discussion? The only argument most people have against alts is that the people with them get more rewards and are therefore greedy. I think the people without alts are lazy and should stop whining and make a 2nd or 3rd character if they want the same rewards as people who put 2-3+ times more work into the game.
Just by playing multiple characters you’ll make more than someone that doesnt. However, there is a difference between making more for playing more (which is simply going to happen due to the time investment of multiple characters), and making more because you can exploit a lucrative quick and easy ‘event’ across many characters.
There are many reasons people don’t make alts, and they really shouldnt be forced to if they don’t want to.
Any people who do shouldn’t be hobbled because they do. We’ve discussed this before and I know we disagree and will, frankly, never reach common ground so I’m hesitant to even start… but…
Why is having 1 character the default that everything is measured against? As if that is in some way the proper way to play. Didn’t ANet give us 5 character slots? Doesn’t that suggest that the “correct” way to play the game is with 5 characters?
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
I have 15 alts, 6 on level 80, working on Nr. 7. They are mostly exotic geared and I have ~7 ascended pieces. And I don’t see the problem.
1. Ok, I can understand that you want to use your fractal level with your alts. The thing is, fractals are for progression, so it makes sense to make them character bound, just like progression works in other games. Sometimes I wish it was different, but I think it is ok the way it is.
2. Everyone can get 1 laurel per day. That’s completely fair, why should you get more laurels just because you have alts?
3. This was a necessary change. People would farm the claw of Jormag the whole day if it wasn’t account based, crowding the servers that currently have the event. We know how it has been. Now you can do the claw once per day, no matter how many alts you have.
4. Another point where I can feel your pain. Yes, it’s annoying that you don’t have your rank on your alt. But it makes sense too, because not every alt would use the same distribution of points. But this is the one thing where I would welcome a change.
5. It’s time gated for a reason. If people could transform crystals with each of their alts, it wouldn’t be time gated anymore. You wouldn’t even need existing alts, just create one, transform crystals and delete the alt. You could transform hundreds of crystals per day.
6. Again, this system exists so that you don’t farm one dungeon path excessively. YOU, not your character, therefore it’s account based. Makes sense.Penalizing players for having alts would mean that you don’t get what players with single chars would get. This applies for fractals and wvw. In both cases there are reason why it is so. But the most things you say are benefits for people with alts.
Of course it takes longer to equip 8 chars than it takes to equip 1 char. That’s just fair. It would still be fair if it would take 8 times as long, but we all know that equipping is faster with each new character.I have alts because I want to have a choice between different play styles in every part of the game. I see that compromised in WvW, although I can accept it. I don’t have alts because I want to get things faster than people with one character.
And this is the reason that alts will die. It’s just not worth it to spend 6 months gearing up alts. It may be “fair” but its a terrible system from the point of view of people who have alts and want BiS gear.
It’s not about faster anyway, it’s about having each character get stuff over the same duration as all the other characters. It’s about not having some of your characters at a 5% disadvantage in WvW because one guy only plays one character 30 minutes a day and you play 2 for an hour.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Ok. But ascribing one of the seven deadly sins to someone is not generally a good way to have a conversation.
For illustrative purposes only here is the counter example, “Why shouldn’t I get two rewards for two characters. You could get two rewards also if you weren’t too lazy to level up an alt.”
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
- snip –
What it all comes down to is you guys want to be reward as much stop trying to hide your true meanings it all comes down to greed nothing but greed.
Really? Really? Here I thought we were having a discussion. Instead you want to cast aspersions. I disagree with everything you have said. I will most likely disagree with anything you say in the future. But I will no longer waste my time talking to someone who isn’t really interested in discussing the game.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Well should you be able to out do ppl who do not have alts? Think about it if they let every thing be hero bound as in event dailies etc.. then the game would move from the casual type of play to the more hardcore type of play. This is simply not what GW2 is about. Even when you look to other games most dailies are only one time per account most of the time any way.
Maybe, if that’s what you want to do.
The problem is that, to me, each character should be either it’s own unique thing (basically it’s own account) or should be considered part of the account.
However, ANet makes progression (story dungeons, leveling, map completion, dyes, fractal level, WvW ranks) per character and rewards (boss chests, dungeon tokens, laurels) per account.
This means that over a 20 day period, you are better off having a single character than running multiple characters. Maybe that’s fine. But this game originally appeared very alt friendly, and many people have developed characters with that expectation. It’s a little disappointing to see it change.
If “each character should be either it’s own unique thing” then there should be no account bound items it should all be soul bound. No account walit no account bank no way of giving gold to your account no way of using a TP because using other players IS destroying a character uniqueness.
Over all you guys are being hyperbolic about the smallest things some items are made to be hard to get and they SHOULD take you some level of time. The big thing is you do not NEED these items but for some reason you feel as if you do its comply beyond me why so much self pressure is being used i though games where about having fun.
I was with you nodding my head until you get to the TP comment. I confess I don’t understand that point.
Also, there’s nothing hyperbolic about saying that the game is less alt-friendly today than it was on Monday. it was less alt friendly on Monday than it was in January, and it was less alt friendly in January than it was in October.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
I really don’t want to get into the whole “need” argument. One side argues that you can do anything with less than BIS gear and the other side will say “but I want it”.
There is no need in this game at all. Nothing is necessary. We can always just do something else. More than any other game I’ve played in this one you have to set your own goals. (At least post-80). if someone’s goals are BiS gear that’s legitimate.
I’ve gone from playing on 8 different characters to playing on 3. And I expect that will narrow down to 1 when ascended gear comes out. Because gearing up is becoming more of a pain in the kitten.
I don’t think that’s good. I can see getting bored with 1 much faster than I would get bored with 8. I don’t like that outcome, and so I comment on forums about it.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
.
Actually he’s complaining that he can’t work twice as hard and gear up 2 characters (twice the effort) in the same amount of time that someone with one character gears up his (same duration). Which is a different.
I’ll concede to this point, but it sounds more like he wants to be able to use two alts to gear up one in shorter time, which is an option that people without alts simply don’t have. If tokens were soulbound, that’d be a different issue… but it’d create its own mess of issues all the same.
At the end of the day, I think the change to alt-tokens is an unintended side effect of the token wallet implementation and, if I’m right, we’ll see the change reverted.
Yes, that wouldn’t be fair and would defeat the purpose of time gating.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Well should you be able to out do ppl who do not have alts? Think about it if they let every thing be hero bound as in event dailies etc.. then the game would move from the casual type of play to the more hardcore type of play. This is simply not what GW2 is about. Even when you look to other games most dailies are only one time per account most of the time any way.
Maybe, if that’s what you want to do.
The problem is that, to me, each character should be either it’s own unique thing (basically it’s own account) or should be considered part of the account.
However, ANet makes progression (story dungeons, leveling, map completion, dyes, fractal level, WvW ranks) per character and rewards (boss chests, dungeon tokens, laurels) per account.
This means that over a 20 day period, you are better off having a single character than running multiple characters. Maybe that’s fine. But this game originally appeared very alt friendly, and many people have developed characters with that expectation. It’s a little disappointing to see it change.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
I play my alts because they are fun, not because I could reap extra rewards from them.
You realize these “extra rewards” are mandatory to fully gear a character right?
Yeah, how dare I expect to get best in slot gear on my characters. Time gating/account gating blows.
You don’t get those “extra rewards” any slower on alts than you do on a single character.
If I run p1 on a dungeon and get 60 tokens, and then run p3 with an alt for 60 tokens, I have still gotten 120 tokens for p1 and p3. Just because you could get it done in 2 days doesn’t mean that was intended or that it’s absolutely your god-given right to be able to do it that fast.
Once you’re done kitting one character out, you now just have to wait an equivalent amount of time on your next character. You’re essentially just complaining that your alts don’t have an advantage over running a single character.
Actually he’s complaining that he can’t work twice as hard and gear up 2 characters (twice the effort) in the same amount of time that someone with one character gears up his (same duration). Which is a different.
he is also pointing out, that ANet is changing the rules in a way that favors people with a single character (as opposed to the previous model). Because before Tuesday, a person could run COF p. 1 with 1 toon and get 60-69 tokens, change to a second toon and get 60-69 more tokens. Today, you run with 1 toon and get 60-69 tokens (idk if you still get the bonus sacks, I’ll assume so.) and again on a second toon and get 20-29 tokens. Which is less.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
(edited by TooBz.3065)
Everything comes down to a basis design philosophy:
Characters progress, accounts are rewarded.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
(edited by TooBz.3065)
Do people really think we’re all just making it up? That the people who take “we don’t want you to grind” as being true for this game are just fanboys or work for Arenanet? Is that a joke? Really? If so, I’ll just leave these forums and not come back, because at this point language and conversation are dead. Conversely, it needs to be acknowledged that the people who feel lied-to or cheated have a valid perspective in some ways and make some good points.
I have the feeling that most people (other than Vayne) realize that the game we got isn’t exactly what the Manifesto offered. In your topic, for example, didn’t you mention how ArenaNet had adapted their game to the idea that there are players who are seeking grind, and mentioned you grind a bit yourself?
This topic is a bad example of the discussions about the Manifesto, since it’s mostly Vayne pretending he’s right while ignoring the evidence proving otherwise. But I think the real conflict isn’t whether the Manifesto was right or wrong, rather if the Manifesto should have been right or not – if a GW2 without grind would have been better than what we currently have. Those who seek the grind are happy with it being a part of GW2, so they don’t really care about the Manifesto. Those who wish GW2 had no grind are obviously unhappy with the way the game is, and so they care about how the Manifesto is not true.
I think that’s probably right. Vayne is hung up on what the manifesto actually said. Which is probably not what most people inferred from reading it.
For example, does this statement “It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment” located at the end of the “rethinking combat” section mean only that this “basic design philosophy” applies just to combat or does it imply something broader?
I think we need another 5 pages on what they implied.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
(edited by TooBz.3065)
I wonder if that’s what they thought would happen. Lol.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
When a dog bites a child that’s been non-stop poking it, it is not necessarily a vicious dog. It is most likely a response due to the child poking at it incessantly. I can very much see how that might be the case here.
If people don’t like my opinion, they can’t not respond to it. It’s no excuse for the kind of behavior I’ve been seeing and I’m not the only one one who feels this way by a long shot.
This. I have a list of people that I will not engage with anymore. It’s just a waste of time. I recommend other adopt a similar strategy. If you don’t feel like the other party is willing to listen and discuss then talking past each other is pointless. (Not saying anyone in particular here falls into this category. I imagine it would be different for everyone).
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
(edited by TooBz.3065)
I think the queens pavilion is farming nirvana at the moment.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Well, Vol. has over 1,000 gold, so he’s not going to be buying them with his own money (RL money not gold) anyway. I’m not sure about everyone else.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
I think the character slots question is better because it goes right to the inconsistent heart of the matter. Character slots are a revenue generator for ANet, but at the same time, they continue to do things to discourage people from buying them, or making those of us who did feel stupid.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Yeah, Necro’s are really powerful right now. That was somewhat corrected in the last patch (before this one) and will probably be corrected again in future patches.
I think they are definitely on it.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
What I mean is that in order for conditions to build up to the point where condition damage is really high I believe you have to be on the receiving end of a lot of attacks. At leat 4-5 people attacking with conditions.
If you were taking focus fire from 4 and 5 people with raw power then you’d be on the ground extremely fast. Faster than with conditions.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Because you are being hit by a ton of them?
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
I see it as more of a pre-complaint about ascended gear, because it’s going to be a pain in the kitten to obtain. The trinkets aren’t fun to get, nor will the rest of it.
It’s because of this that I decided pair down the characters that I play drastically. Right now I basically have three builds I need to support. I don’t think I can support more than that. If the ascended stuff is too terrible, then I may just give up all together.
Your issue with the pickaxe is the same as my issue with ascended gear, the only difference is that one costs money and the other costs time.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
It’s been hit or (mostly) miss for me.
I didn’t enjoy 99% of flame and frost,
southsun was ok,
SAB was ok once.
aetherblades I skipped,
I liked the bazaar (mostly cause I liked jumping puzzle-esque part of it),
didn’t care for the election,
and have almost no interest in the current one (but I’ll check it out.)
That said, most of this content has been developed on a very short timeline. More elaborate content is suppose to show up in about a month. We’ll see.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
I don’t think this is the reason. I think it’s just a money sink. Because, if you create an alt, that alt has access to far more gold than any other level X character would have and therefore can buy that much better gear. You just have to be willing to pay for it.
Right, but before soulbound/level restricted gear you could for example just pass your high tier gear to your low level alt. Both of these were introduced to combat that. Now they are just a staple of MMOs at this point. In fact I would say guild wars has done it correctly since all skins and all low level gear is in fact not soulbound at all. It isn’t until you get to the high tier sets (Rare and higher) that you run into that. Again this is so that one person cannot make 1 set of armor, and get one set of ascended (celestial) trinkets and just pass them around to every character they make. Each character has to earn their own gear.
Sorry, misread you post the first time.
Masterwork gear is also soulbound. I do not care if something is an MMO staple, that’s absolutely not a sufficient reason to reproduce it here.
I see level restricted gear as a way to make sure that everyone is on a more or less level playing field. I still don’t get the need for soul bound. Or why the two go together.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
(edited by TooBz.3065)
@Galen Grey (sorry too long to quote).
You can’t see the perverse incentives this introduces into future content?
Participate in the event or hang on to whatever item and hope it’s worth money in the future. It’s like those refugee things you turned in during flame and frost. Knowing there’s a chance that they would be worth silver, wouldn’t you hold on to them? Is that what ANet wants?
Someone clearly did not think this through.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
soulbinds remind me of customization in gw1. That was cool. If you wanted to keep a weapon for yourself on a specific character you got a 20% damage boost.
Very legit very respectable choice one would make with their account gear. Miss that really. I only have 1 80 and a few low level alts, but it makes me exhausted thinking about having to build another from scratch.
I seriously recommend not playing any alts. It seemed like an ok thing to do early on, but it’s so not worth it. Focus on your main. Gear them up and then get rich.
Alts are like boats, nothing but money sinks.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Soulbinding is the answer to twinking, probably the most notable game with that was Diablo 2.
After having a level 80+ character farming runes, armor sets, and weapons people could build a set for benchmark levels 20, 40, and 60. That will carry them to the next set these sets and their runewords were hundreds of times more powerful than the gear that one would normally get at these levels. making all content trivial. It’s hard to balance when some level X’s are 5 times more powerful than other level X’s the concept of this is a level X mission goes out the window.
MMOs have been trying to combat this and the best option (they feel) is to make every character have to earn their own equipment. Just like you have to earn your way to 80. There is also often a limitation on the level of equipment one can wear minimum level. Anet has decided in that way to adhere to the MMO standard which is you have to level each alt, and you have to earn gear on each alt.
I don’t think this is the reason. I think it’s just a money sink. Because, if you create an alt, that alt has access to far more gold than any other level X character would have and therefore can buy that much better gear. You just have to be willing to pay for it.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
When the option is to spend 30 minutes a day for 30 days to get ascended gear or acquire 250 T6 mats, 50 ectos, a material only avialable in one dungeon, and 24 skill points to get the ascended gear, I’ll take the dailies every time.
So, because the give you an even worse option, the bad option is suddenly a good one?
The third option is two declare the other two options a waste of time and refuse to play along.
No, daily’s are terrible. I have spouted off against them many times.
However, when I look at the direction the game is going (charging crystals, time gated T7 materials, crafting of ascended gear 1 / day, combining lower tier materials in the mystic forge.) I realize that any change is going to be worse.
You understand why ascended is to be time-gated right? It’s to reduce the impact of the inevitable power creep. Whether it’ll be effective or not is another matter ofc
I understand the purpose of time gating… I just don’t care. Power creep, the economy, inflation, etc… all fall into the Somebody Else’s Problem category for me. I’m a simple person, for me, I just care about enjoying myself.
In the abstract I know that each of those factors may affect how much I enjoy the game in the future. So I realized that they need to be managed, but ANet (or anyone else) doesn’t get a free pass on making me do stuff I don’t enjoy just because there’s a problem they need to address.
Be smarter. Make a better game. That’s what I pay for.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Having multiple characters is definitely difficult. I have 7 level 80’s, 1 level 51, and a level 2. I was working on the level 51 and I just decided enough!
I’ve narrowed it down so that I only ever use 2 classes. (Guardian and Mesmer, not that it matters). I’m pretending like the others don’t exist. I’ll probably park them at an ori node or something. (I would just delete them entirely, but I have all crafting disciplines up to 400 across the different characters)
It’s a hard lesson, but you will have more resources and better gear if you stick to a single main. I still haven’t managed, but sooner or later I’ll drop 1 of the last two.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
For the majority of us, I suspect they reasoned that the cash compensation would be insignificant. However I can confirm for newer players it is quite a decent boost.
I don’t know. I have a fair amount of gold, but if I knew that the 150ish tokens that I turned in could be worth 1g 50s I wouldn’t have voted. I definitely won’t do it again.
Really?
I’ve seen items on the TP worth nearly 2000 Gold. If someone has anywhere near that much then 2G shouldn’t even be worth a keystroke….
By fair amount of gold I mean, I’m ok. I’m not rich, but if I want to buy a sigil or something I don’t sweat it.
So the super-rich will vote and the rest won’t.. Great. That’s a always been a functional model of government.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
For the majority of us, I suspect they reasoned that the cash compensation would be insignificant. However I can confirm for newer players it is quite a decent boost.
I don’t know. I have a fair amount of gold, but if I knew that the 150ish tokens that I turned in could be worth 1g 50s I wouldn’t have voted. I definitely won’t do it again.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Not having them salable is a more logical move.
Let’s spend a moment to think about the logical consequence of this. Is anyone going to vote in any subsequent elections? No. At least not the next one.
So, by rewarding players who did not participate, ANet is providing an incentive to hoard future items from future content. Especially if the content consumes an item without actually providing direct value back to the player. (Yes, I know you get to vote on a fractal, but I mean direct immediate value).
IDK, but I don’t see how that’s a good idea.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Sarcasm.
. Finally we will get rid of those excess charged lodestones that have been clogging our inventories since launch.
Yes. Sorry. I thought that was clear. It’s a ridiculous price to pay for a 1 time use item. Why even bother including it at all if it’s going to be prohibitively expensive?
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
From the Notes:
The recipe requires a level 400 artificer. It requires 5 Orichalcum Ingots, 1 Master Tuning Crystal, 1 Charged Lodestone, and 75 Watchwork Sprockets.
This is excellent. Finally we will get rid of those excess charged lodestones that have been clogging our inventories since launch.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
When the option is to spend 30 minutes a day for 30 days to get ascended gear or acquire 250 T6 mats, 50 ectos, a material only avialable in one dungeon, and 24 skill points to get the ascended gear, I’ll take the dailies every time.
So, because the give you an even worse option, the bad option is suddenly a good one?
The third option is two declare the other two options a waste of time and refuse to play along.
No, daily’s are terrible. I have spouted off against them many times.
However, when I look at the direction the game is going (charging crystals, time gated T7 materials, crafting of ascended gear 1 / day, combining lower tier materials in the mystic forge.) I realize that any change is going to be worse.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Ascended gear
Soulbound gear
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
I think that the impatient benefit (because of the smaller spread) and the patient suffer (because of the smaller spread).
That’s incorrect. The reality is that both receive a more or less equal price, which is a more fair outcome.
It’s rather hypocritical to complain about flippers “leeching”, and then support the interests of only one of either patient or impatient players.
Nope what I said is 100% correct. The impatient get a better outcome and the patient get a worse outcome. Every time.
My statement had nothing to do with fairness. Also I wasn’t kittening about flippers. I was just stating that some benefit and some suffer because of flippers.
Edit: As opposed to everyone being better off, which is what was asserted.
If by “patient” you mean “those who incorrectly priced their buy/sell bids outside the acceptable price range”, then I agree with you. They do have a less than ideal outcome as a result of margin shrinking since their bids are now outside the margins and will thus be left unfilled.
The “patient” buyer can easily rebid at no cost. The “patient” seller will have to cut their losses and move on.
See, this implies a point of view I don’t understand (but have been more than willing to try).
Like everyone else here, you’re just snarky.
I’m going back to the general discussion where people are more civilized.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
When the option is to spend 30 minutes a day for 30 days to get ascended gear or acquire 250 T6 mats, 50 ectos, a material only avialable in one dungeon, and 24 skill points to get the ascended gear, I’ll take the dailies every time.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Cool. Just rounding out what the point of the discussion was.
Frankly I think we’d all be better off if we dropped the manifesto nonsense and focused on what makes this game great and what could be improved. So I agree (just this once).
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Now you get to the nitty gritty of the problem.
There are a whole lot of people who really believe that they can take a single line out of the manifesto and turn that line to mean what they want it to mean, without taking the rest of the words around it into account, and all the stuff said about it afterwards.
The line “we don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2” is followed by “no one likes it, no one finds it fun, we want to change the way people view COMBAT”.
The paragraph starts with the line, “In other games there’s this boring grind to get to the fun stuff…”
What is Colin talking about…boring grind to get to the fun stuff. Not gear grind. Gear isn’t mentioned anywhere in the manifesto. Even the article referring to the manifesto written after doesn’t use the word gear, though it does use the words “fun reward”. Can you maybe perhaps interpret that as meaning gear. Maybe. But it’s not a sure thing. At the very least it would be something you’d have to think about. What did Colin mean when he said grind.
If you take the words out of context, the manifesto was betrayed. If you look at the context, backed up by months of commentary after the fact, then the manifesto wasn’t betrayed.
Whether you like the game or not, whether you like what was done or not, the manifesto itself didn’t change. The intentions of the devs didn’t change.
The one thing that DID change, was the slight vertical progression added to the game, which wasn’t mentioned at all in the manifesto.
If that’s the point, how much does this really matter?
For example, would it be fine to say that ascended gear terrible, time gated content is boring, and grinding for a legendary is insufferable., as long as recognize that ANet never said they wouldn’t make it terrible, boring, and insufferable?
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
I listened. Anet posted that clarification VERY soon after the manifesto. And it was common knowledge at that time. Subsequent to that, they put out very specific stuff about what was and wasn’t in the game.
And that manifesto, it was up in that blog for a very very long time. Well over a year and a half before they migrated to the new blog.
So that manifesto clarification was there to see for a very long time.
Sure people will complain…I get that.
But when someone points out to them that it’s one document, one video out of dozens, and it’s old and it was clarified, what do they say?
Well some people all but accused me of making it up in the first place. New information always supercedes old information about any game. Everyone knows that.
Try buying WoW now and reading the first manual.
Yeah, ok. I know nothing about the history. I do know that I heard about the manifesto but not the clarification, which I see as a (the??) problem.
I will never buy WOW.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
If you plan on doing WvW, take whichever class you are going to use there and make it the asura. The smaller size fives you an advantage (not hit boxes or range those are all the same) but visually you are easier to miss.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
I think that the impatient benefit (because of the smaller spread) and the patient suffer (because of the smaller spread).
That’s incorrect. The reality is that both receive a more or less equal price, which is a more fair outcome.
It’s rather hypocritical to complain about flippers “leeching”, and then support the interests of only one of either patient or impatient players.
Nope what I said is 100% correct. The impatient get a better outcome and the patient get a worse outcome. Every time.
My statement had nothing to do with fairness. Also I wasn’t kittening about flippers. I was just stating that some benefit and some suffer because of flippers.
Edit: As opposed to everyone being better off, which is what was asserted.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
(edited by TooBz.3065)
Out of all the classes I like the Mesmer and the Guardian best.
The Mesmer is fun because it doesn’t match up to any classic archetypes, so I find their dynamic interesting. I also like the hoping around and clone generation.
The guardian is fun in WvW because you can pull off ridiculous stuff and get away with it. It’s really fun to run through a zerg, turn around and run back.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
I think the problem is that people viewed the manifesto as a “mission statement” as opposed to a marketing document. In fact it was only a marketing document. And as such, it’s misleading.
Saying that bosses shouldn’t reappear every 10 minutes and then saying that only applies to story missions is like a store saying that it doesn’t price gouge because 10% of the goods are reasonably priced.
I’m not saying that bosses can or should have a long timer, because this is an MMO and frankly I don’t think that would work. But the simple fact remains that the statement, on it’s face, is misleading.
And there will be forum posts about it forever because of this.
Actually no, they never said the bosses wouldn’t appear every ten minutes in the open world. Giving people stuff to do > than being “realistic”.
I didn’t say they did. (One more try)
But they did say MMO’s had lost their ability to tell a story becaue “everyone around you is doing the same thing your doing, the boss you just killed respawns 10 minutes later, it doesn’t care that I’m there.”
Of course they “meant” the personal story, however, the statement, on it’s face is misleading. It requires clarification. As long as ArenaNet puts forth misleading statements they will have people complain on the forums about it.
Also, if you read my post I did say that living up to that statement probably wouldn’t work in an MMO.
You said above that you would rather discuss opinion, but you didn’t listen to what I said at all or pay attention to the point I was trying to make. Instead you jumped on the first thing that you felt like addressing.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
(edited by TooBz.3065)
So we’ve obviously beat to death (and still not resolved) whether the flipper provides a service by helping the market to find the ‘true’ price. I believe this is correct, but would also likely happen without flippers; just at a much slower rate.
So, I would posit that the primary benefit of flippers is to increase market velocity, especially in markets where multiple flippers are competing. 1. This increases the rate at which the ‘true’ price is found. 2. More importantly, this increases transaction volume and flow of money through the TP (i.e. instead of x amount of gold flowing through the TP, you now get 5x, or some other multiplier). This increases dramatically the amount of TP tax being paid.
Does the flipper profit? Yes. (if he’s lucky and smart)
The people in the market being flipped also benefit from a lower spread on that item.
The amount of gold removed from the game is hugely significant, I would guess that as a gold sink, the TP tax is the largest by an order of magnitude. Therefore, I would conclude that the general player base (especially those who don’t play the market) reaps a great reward in lower general inflation.Also, 1000 gold in the hands of one rich player has far less inflation potential than 1 gold in the hands of a thousand people.
I agree with at least some portion of what you said. I do not agree that people in the market benefit from flippers. I think that the impatient benefit (because of the smaller spread) and the patient suffer (because of the smaller spread).
John said something about “dead weight loss” but after reading about it, I still don’t understand how it applies in this case (I think it applies when prices are artificially too high or too low and not where there is a spread in the bid / ask).
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Also, not to sound like I’m insensitive to your position, ANet has in the past completely kittened members of the community with nerfs and other fixes.
This is coming from a former glamour mesmer who has a lot of stuff wasted with the confusion nerf.
I think ANet made a huge mistake on the dye front.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
No. Nope. Nuh-uh. No way. Never. It is WAY too late in the game to do that now.
I have tons of dyes on each of 8 characters. Many, many duplicates. Giving me the duplicates back to sell on the TP is impossible… I don’t have the storage space for even a fraction of them. And I would never come close to making back the money I spent on the ones that were purchased, since there would be less demand.
There are TONS if super-cheap dyes. I’m talking less than 1 silver piece each. Everyone can get plenty of acceptable colors for multiple characters without breaking the bank. And after nearly a year, you should have tons of dyes from drops too, without having spent a penny in the Trading Post.
It’s too late, baby, now it’s too late.
Carole King quote aside. They could also just give you gold based on the current market value (ha!). Also, I like the idea of in game mail delivering the dyes.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
(edited by TooBz.3065)
I think the problem is that people viewed the manifesto as a “mission statement” as opposed to a marketing document. In fact it was only a marketing document. And as such, it’s misleading.
Saying that bosses shouldn’t reappear every 10 minutes and then saying that only applies to story missions is like a store saying that it doesn’t price gouge because 10% of the goods are reasonably priced.
I’m not saying that bosses can or should have a long timer, because this is an MMO and frankly I don’t think that would work. But the simple fact remains that the statement, on it’s face, is misleading.
And there will be forum posts about it forever because of this.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
(edited by TooBz.3065)
snip.
It’s a 2 way street.
It lowers prices for the impatient buyer, but at the same time raises prices for the patient buyer.
It raises selling prices for the impatient sellers, but at the same time lowers prices for the patient sellers.
This is also absolutely true. Flippers don’t actually lower the price of anything. Technically, they just reduce the spread. The true price (somewhere between the buy and sell price) remains constant.
This is also why I suspect that the virtual economy would not be any worse off without flippers. But that’s a different discussion.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
(edited by TooBz.3065)