Guild Wars 2

xXTattsXx.4361:

A lot of folks from DR are taking a small break right now, good to know we still hold our own with less folks around then earlier in the year.

I always hear that in every match, along with a few other obligatory things. I find it interesting how they always show up. There are always people/groups taking breaks in every match! The same rings true for DH this one. Though, I do expect to see more MorT around than I have. Where you all be?

Just wanted to give another hats off to IoJ. Please, please keep fighting. Some of your guilds really took me by surprise last night, and thats exactly why I love playing video games.

Great times all around, and it seems a bit more balanced than with AR in the tier. Though, I cant deny I miss seeing ALS all over the place!

I suggest using this

Excellent program.

Mosharn.8357:

Creepy Silent.9801:

Mosharn.8357:

hai DR. Good to see a old friend.

I thought you were on TC?

TC started trollin around and a lot of kaineng players moved to dh after wm/re ruined kaineng. So i went to my ppl :P faught a btsy group and a noqq was there too in ioj bl. Was just bout to kill a guardian with twilight from btsy and my game crashes and i get bsod lol. Weird stuff goin on with it.

Your words confuse and frighten me.

Great to fight DR for the first time. Fun fights all around. IoJ is really showing some force too, its good to see.

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Durzlla.6295:

but now that we know it’s an AoE… that long charge up before he uses it now makes sense xD.

Huh?

Actually, that’s not new info at all?

Well that’s great that you knew this and didn’t bother letting anyone on the forums know or updating the wiki, but thank god you decided to tell us you knew it -now-.

Through the mysteries of the universe, I actually already knew that OG knew about this prior to him letting us all know he knew. So, in fact, him knowing was already known and thus was not new information at all either.

:D

Ok, ok. Back on topic :P Do those who use pigs find it more useful to have them on passive or aggressive? I use passive, so I can select specific targets as well as having foraged items ideally spawn right next to me. If anyone uses it on aggressive, would you mind sharing some of your strategies and techniques? Always enjoy how differently people will approach the same thing. So, so much to learn from it!

Terkov.4138:

I tried using the fact it’s aoe agaist enemy zergs… didn’t go as planned. I’d -love- to use pigs, but I wolves seems just so much better :/

Just out of curiosity, how exactly were you using them? Meaning, what strategies, skill executions, etc.

Since I actually find wolves to be less useful than pigs (with the exception of fearing opponents in downed state), I have no doubt our playstyles are different. That just means I could probably learn some things from ya!

OGDeadHead.8326:

Durzlla.6295:

but now that we know it’s an AoE… that long charge up before he uses it now makes sense xD.

Huh?

Actually, that’s not new info at all?

Its fine that something which didnt help you at all inspired you to post to tell everyone you already knew.. but the info was new to me. I appreciated it as well.

Obviously its not technically “new” since it was programmed into the game.

Thanks again Durzlla!

Xsorus.2507:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVcBe7xIJG8

Quality will improve in a bit, but yea…

That was with no Boon Duration by the way.

Im just going to take a stab in the dark and guess that is not WAI. Unless I am missing something.

I went into the game to test it as well, and sure enough, you can just keep spawning the foraged weapons even when the skill is on CD. If rangers ever get much attention from Anet, I have no doubt they will fix things like that before properly balancing the class!

Maladon.5760:

You guys will complain about literally anything

heh, and “you guys” will always be there to complain about those complaining, right?

Either way, I am just waiting to see how it is all implemented. Being character bound may not be so bad, but if its like many of the WvW achievements (like yakslapper, etc), it will be difficult to attain on a single character much less alts.

I like the idea of it, but execution is the most important part and I just havent seen how it works in action. Ill reserve my opinion until I have played with it for a while.

jubskie.3152:

Unfortunately, I was serious :O Went over my head completely >< I feel so bad now.. ..

Pshh, dont feel bad at all. Text is deceiving. In the future though, if you see my name, you can be pretty sure I am joking 99% of the time. So, if you wonder “is this guy actually serious?” Well, probably not!

Oh and I’m glad someone else took an interest to pigs Pigs got indirectly buffed when the pickup-a-bundle bug was fixed Now if only people can accept that Forage is not Steal and the Forage Item won’t appear in your character’s hand…

Yes, I agree. I actually think it might start to verge on OP for it to act like Steal. Of course, I also feel rangers need a bit of buffing almost solely due to the expectation of the pet doing the damage. I just dont want it like that. Maybe just an adjustment of our damage proportion to our pet.

Thanks for keeping the wiki updated, btw. For whatever reason, I just dont like doing that sort of thing despite being an electrical engineer, website dev, and custom computer builder. I guess some things in life just dont make sense!

As for supporting Pigs.. I bumped your thread as well, and am part of a just-now created group (consisting of me and me, for now) of self-appointed pig advocates. Partially joking with it, but I really do find them fantastically effective for my playstyle.

Durzlla.6295:

So, after some testing last night i can 100% confirm that the KD on the pet (which lasts 3s) is an aoe cleave, which is pretty amazing!!

That is an absolutely FANTASTIC find! I had been only testing against single enemies, so it would have never showed up and it certainly never crossed my mind it would have cleave attributes in the first place. And, as you say, it makes a lot of the design decisions around the skill make a whole lot more sense. Now, if it would only hit more consistently! But really, that seems to be a pet issue across the board. See this thread. I never thought of it that way, and that OP opened my eyes as to how the pets really do probably work.

Great job on that Durzlla.

On a more serious note;

I do have some pretty big concerns about this, especially with the removal of culling. I am not on a high tier wvw server (Darkhaven) and I am getting this skill lag constantly. While I am REALLY excited about the removal of culling (makes me regret deleting my thief a little actually), I am concerned it will only exacerbate this already game-breaking problem. One step at a time though.

Infernia.9847:

Though I do have this issue during WvW zerg meet & greet + at large PvE events…
I think you meant, wink wink in a coy teasing manner.
Or maybe not.

Hmm, in the continuing personification of this issue, wink wink would be more appropriate I suppose. :P

I did mean blink though. While the skill wont go off, the user client does seem to recognize a command has been given and “blinks” (its more of a ripple, I guess). Skill never goes off though.

I still say its Sky*net*. It is surely no coincidence the company supporting this game is called Arena*Net*.

;)

edit: smilies no longer working! the self aware binary system has recognized me! turns off computer

It may be user-end latency issues in individual cases.

That said, it is also an ArenaNet recognized issue on their end.

Also want to say that it doesnt necessarily “do nothing.” The skills DO tend to blink at you! Almost.. tauntingly.

Oh! This skill? The one thats blinking? This is the one you want? Are you sure? Ill blink it a couple more times just to MAKE SURE this is what you want! blink blink Are you sure this is the right skill to use here? Like, really totally sure? blink blink See, player, you dont need to heal when you are dead!

I tell you this now, just as a warning.. this was foretold in the movie Terminator. This is the rise of the machines. The.. Skillpocalypse.

Since this thread is a bit more comprehensive than my own and better written, and I am part of the self appointed pig advocacy group, I am giving this a bump!

I did want to state though, that I am able to reliably get 3+ stacks of confusion off of throw gunk. I start with sword/dagger, hit dagger 5 then switch to shortbow. I then use shortbow 4, then 5 (or sometimes the other way around depending on situation) and by that time its usually gone. If not, I try to use shortbow 3 to get that one extra stack. I also use this in combination with pain inverter to great effect on a condi build. Theoretically, if used with a Reef Drake, one could have confusion up almost constantly using these skills. However, in practice, the confusion from Reef Drake takes a bit too long to cast and I find it most useful ikittenerg vs zerg scenario where I expect them to die after getting the skill off.

jubskie.3152:

Ohw-kay… Firstly, that’s very insecure of you :/ Sorry, but I have to say it. If you’re joking or sarcastic, I completely missed it.

Secondly, we talked about different things. You listed the frequency of items when I didn’t. What I wrote about is the themes of the pigs, what the forage items used for how to use the pig pets in a group context.

Lastly, you should give it a read. The only similar thing we wrote about are the links to the wiki.

It sure was joking and sarcastic, hahaha. Smeagol reference included. Unless, of course, YOU were joking with me about whether or not I was joking with you. If I think about it too much, my brain will explode.

I already read it, and you did a great job on it! Someone should put some of the info on the wiki though, including field times, etc. It seems all of the pets are pretty straight forward, with the exception of the Pig Family. Might not be bad to include the amount of time the foraged weapon stays in the environment, as well as how long it will stay in hand. I am not sure if it is the same with normal environmental weapons and foraged weapons.

As of late for me, its pigs. All pigs, all the time (mainly warthog, siamoth, and boar ironically). Though the confusion on reef drake is fantastic. And the fact it has AoE attacks beyond that is icing on the cake.

Great tip about switching pets when dropping down from walls!

jubskie.3152:

Yeah, there’s already a thread about this

Yeah… Not only that, but the info is on the wiki, lmao. I actually put decent time into it as well, thinking others could benefit. Like I said before though; Oh well! In my defense, I did put semi-relevant drop rates than can be built upon for further testing as well as some additional info on field times. So, I am still awesome. I refuse to check that thread you link in case it also lists those things and steals my awesomeness! My precious..

Ok, now onto losing damage from auto attack. As others have said, that depends on a lot of things. I really, really dont like dungeons though so I have no opinion there. I do feel the range of 900 is a bit strange, since I use sword/dagger and shortbow. If I used axe, it might fit in perfectly though. And maybe its just because I also have the highest damage classes in the game, but telling me that a ranger loses a bit in their auto attack isnt too relevant to me. With the damage cap, it isnt all that great anyway. For my specific build though, having the ability to apply constant conditions has massive benefit since they constantly get cleanses in WvW (where I spend most of my time). I tend to win by attrition on my ranger, so it works into that very, very well. The stealth from siamoth can allow me to get behind/flank people with the shortbow as well, which all works towards just applying conditions and staying alive while they tick!

@Prysin;

While I use the siamoth quite a bit, I also find great utility with the boar. Especially since the forage found weapons all do roughly the same thing, with the exception of the skull. But.. that gives 3+ seconds of fear (condition duration seems to apply to it). All are extremely, extremely handy for CC sensitive classes like the thief. Not to mention that bone and rock seem to do more damage than any of our real skills, sans condition.

As for cooldowns, I will test it a bit later but I found that the weapon will stay in hand for roughly half the cooldown of the forage ability, or 20 seconds. It stays on the ground for longer, but still not the entire cooldown.. so maybe 30/35 seconds. The elixir of heroes, as previously stated, stays until it is consumed (at least 24 hours).

One of my favorites is getting a plasma while I am trying to get into a tower/keep to defend it. Instead of popping rampage as one for the stability, can just get it from my pet!

I agree on the cooldown. 30 seconds would be about perfect since that seems to be roughly how long the previously foraged weapon stays on the ground. Kind of like with spirits, by the time one is “gone,” it is off cooldown and ready to be used. I dont feel that would be game breaking at all. Though, honestly, I would rather them fix the general pet problems we have before approaching individual issues.

misterdevious.6482:

I have never had it do the ring of earth attack, but I don’t have the AoE bleeding on weapon swap sigil equipped. I noticed… other things..

Just wanted to say I went into game and tested a bit. I agree with you that it isnt WAI. Now, I cant get it to activate at all, haha. I then equipped a sigil of geomancy, and it still wasnt proccing. Whether or not the effect is intended, it seems bugged. Weird too, since there are so few bugs in this game..

I thought it was a really great thing to have on this specific skill though (forage found weapons). Oh well!

Terkov.4138:

There were some topics about pigs, one included full list of F2 items and what pig gives what items. I tested pigs as WvW pets, my results: F2 is not realiable enough (need to pick it up and it’s too random) and their KD is missing too much compared to wolves.

Didnt find anything in my searches, but admitedly, I didnt try very hard.

Either way, its just another post with a full list, which as I mentioned is even stated on the wiki! I guess I just added some small drop rate tests.

I constantly use the siamoth and warthog in WvW though to great effect. Might have a lot to do with playstyle. I only have about 10k kills, but I feel like I can figure out what makes me more effective or not. I find very little randomness, tbh. With the siamoth, its either going to be a stealth or gaining all boons (in the situations that call for it, either one will serve the purpose). The warthog just gives me more conditions so I can apply them more consistently. I basically use it to keep condi pressure as strong as possible. The combo fields it lays down are great too. Love projectile finisher through an ethereal field (I play an Asura and run Pain Inverter as well). Then again though, my playstyle is very, very combo heavy since the class I was playing before ranger was an elementalist.

edit: Their KD really could use some work, but I still seem more effective overall than when running a canine. The amount of times I have seen the pig literally run through its target is dissapointing. Hopefully it will be fixed eventually.

misterdevious.6482:

I have never had it do the ring of earth attack, but I don’t have the AoE bleeding on weapon swap sigil equipped. I noticed… other things.

Yeah, I can see the game recognizing it as a weapon swap. I had no sigils on my weapons, so if its still activating a weapon swap skill it might not be WAI. The internal CDs would also line up with weapon swap sigils, iirc. That said, this specifically does not seem game breaking at all and pretty in line with how the skills work (kind of taking skills from other classes, mainly thief). It also might not be the weapon swap skill as Ring of Earth is a dagger main hand ele skill. Ill test it later if I get bored. Forgive me if I dont just take your word for it! This is the internet after all. It should be noted that I dont remember this happening when picking up random environmental weapons, but then again, I can count the number of times I have picked them up with one hand (before this little test). Pun intended?

I see what you are getting at though. The amount of information on the skill/mechanic is lacking, so its hard for me to determine what exactly is intended or not. Clarification by a dev wouldnt be a bad thing! Has anyone from Anet commented on it by any chance?

I was talking about the culling changes making stealth actually end when it is supposed to end.

Well, you are talking to someone who deleted their level 80 thief in full exotics because of how exploitative the class felt. I couldnt be happier about the culling change in every way. We’ll see how my hardware does when it gets implemented though.

misterdevious.6482:

Tuluum.9638:

Also, you do the Ring of Earth attack when you pick up the foraged weapon, as well as when you activate it (at least in appearance).

The fact that “on weapon swap” effects happen when you pick up and use environmental weapons is something I reported as an exploitable issue a couple weeks ago because so much bad can come from it. I won’t go into detail.

I like Siamoth for doing reckless things… with 50% boon duration the plasma is awesome, and stealth is great (but is getting nerfed).

Interesting, do you have more info on where it says this is a weapon swap effect? Obviously, an ele also has this skill on their bar (sans weapon swap) and it seems that the skills foraged are exactly like a thieves, so it appears to be in line with the general idea of it. I had no runes on me at the time of testing.

How will the revealed change impact the stealth? Culling removal will, but I have yet to be able to use two of the stealth skills in less than 4 seconds from each other. They de-spawn rather quickly. Didnt test with the camo on disable trait either, so that might be affected. Cant remember if it is considered a “stealth” though.

Durzlla.6295:

Why would egg need a buff? It heals for ~2k and scales AMAZINGLY with healing power… at ~1k healing power it increases the healing to about 2.8k.

Really powerful heal right there.

Wasnt aware of the scaling with healing power, since I dont have any on my current build. Thanks for bringing the info in!

For the amount of time it takes though, I would personally rather have other skills to increase survivability. A 2k heal on a 40 second cooldown, with an activation time of
2 seconds (not including the time to run to it and pick it up) isnt too impressive to me. Then again, I came from an ele main, so maybe my perspective is skewed :P If it had another effect besides initiative regen (maybe even a water field), I might change my tune though.

I still would like it to be an AoE.

Edit: I was also mistaken about this not being on the wiki, so a bit of wasted time on my part. It is just listed oddly. Oh well!

ensoriki.5789:

Xsorus.2507:

Pigs F2 ability needs to hack like Steal from Thieves, were it replaces the F2 with whatever they picked up.

Think about how much utility is present in what the Pigs currently have, and realize no one uses it because the awful nature at which Pigs f2 is designed currently around.

This is one of the main problems with Rangers currently, we have a lot of Stuff that should be on our class shoved onto our pets in a kitten manner with no thought to usability, and people wonder why we’re not as good as other classes.

My problem with the pigs f2 isn’t that they aren’t built in. It’s cool because an ally can use it. Problem is in terms of the RNG itself and forage to a lesser extent.
Boar isn’t bad, I think it’s cool and works pretty well.
Pigs are cool except for Egg, think that needs a buff in all seriousness, lackluster.
Don’t know what I think of warthog…
Siamoth is alright.
But yeah, Egg and Warthog don’t rub me the right way.

I find siamoth to be the most reliable. It IS a RNG based system, but they are all pretty close in terms of what they find. And it will only ever be one of three things. All of the boars forages do damage and CC. The siamoth has two skills that are exactly the same (3s stealth/blind) and then a gain all boons for 10 sec skill (more if you have boon duration %). The pig is pretty much support/healing, though it would be a lot more effective if the egg was AoE. The warthog gives access to LONG durations of conditions (great for condi ranger and 12s of weakness is great) and two combo fields (poison and ethereal). They are all pretty handy in their way, and they seem to find things grouped in the same approximate category.

Its a lot like many mesmer skills, where it is a bit random but still of the same “flavor” so it can be useful beyond solely dumb luck.

Basically, I dont find them any more unwieldy/unreliable than other pets. Which is definitely an area I think needs a bit of work if they are going to cap the players damage with the expectation of the pet making up the difference. Completely different discussion though.

Xsorus.2507:

Pigs F2 ability needs to hack like Steal from Thieves, were it replaces the F2 with whatever they picked up.

Think about how much utility is present in what the Pigs currently have, and realize no one uses it because the awful nature at which Pigs f2 is designed currently around.

This is one of the main problems with Rangers currently, we have a lot of Stuff that should be on our class shoved onto our pets in a kitten manner with no thought to usability, and people wonder why we’re not as good as other classes.

I am not entirely unhappy with the way they are now. I think the ranger needs a bit of work, but honestly, running pigs (heh) has been a force multiplier for me. I also love the ring of earth that casts around me, which might be taken away if its tied to the pet (since it still allows us all of our skills). I wouldnt be opposed to it though if everything remained the same and it just transformed the F2 skill. Of course, this would also prevent dropping tons of Elixirs of Heroes for everybody as they remain in the world. The ones I foraged yesterday are still there when I checked it out today.

Though, I think its pretty obvious they were thrown in since even the egg we find regenerates initiative. It might be handy if running with a thief.. maybe.

Other than that though, its more effective than running other pets for me and my playstyle. It takes more involvement (probably more than any other class) though, and I think it should reflect that a bit better.

I have been using the pig family as pets exclusively recently. Their stat numbers seem to be deceiving (much like the birds), so I did some testing. Their F2 skill seems dependent on the player more, which I really like. And they are oddly survivable, despite their numbers.

Using their F2 skill, along with them just auto attacking, they did better than any other pet against the mobs I tested against. This was in Frostgorge Sound against Dolyaks, Moose (Meese?), and Longhorn rams. Pet/me was level 71 and NPCs were 74-75.

Warthog:
Scale /11
Gunk /7
Venom Sac /6
Notes:
Venom Sac poison field duration is 10 seconds.

Pig:
Egg /13
Elixir of Heroes /7
Seed Pod /4
Notes: Egg has initiative regen. Seed pod has 190 healing (on my char, not sure if it changes as it didnt scale with level) and remains for ~6 seconds resulting in ~12 seconds of regen.

Siamoth:
Feathers /8
Tuft of Hair /7
Plasma /10

Boar:
Skull /9
Rock /6
Bone /10
Notes: Amount of fear from skull depends on distance, the closer the better.

After a bit of exploring, it seems that the skills are exactly (or close enough) to what a thief gets when they steal from “x” creature. It seems the info is HUGELY lacking when it comes to Pig Family foraged weapons. In fact, it says it only finds four and its the same across the board, but they each have three of their own things they find.

I only tested ~25-30 times for each (as you can see), but it seems some are more consistent than others. Boar seems to forage up everything pretty equally. Siamoth as well, with perhaps a bit more Plasma. Pig really likes to find eggs, sadly. And an interesting note is that the Elixir of heroes they find do NOT seem to despawn like every other forage found weapon. Warthog gets the scale the most. With such a small sample, it could all even out after more iterations but I found what I wanted so Im good :P

Try them out, you might be surprised at how effective they are. It takes some getting used to in using the improvised weapons, but they are VERY effective. Siamoth, for example, has Feathers and Tuft of Hair which do the same thing. 3 seconds of blindness and three seconds of stealth. Plasma gives all boons for 10 seconds (some, like stability, are less).

Also, you do the Ring of Earth attack when you pick up the foraged weapon, as well as when you activate it (at least in appearance). However, there needs to be a delay between the two that seems to be ~5 seconds. In some situations, like the stealth, it can be handy to wait. Though, most of the time its better to just activate it to get access to your normal skills quickly.

I apologize if this has already been posted. Searched, but didnt find anything other than mentioning them as useful in passing!

Aveneo.2068:

Now what if they would exclude pets from a mob’s ‘agro radius’ as long as it doesn’t attack a mob? It might be a start to remove the frustration of accidental pulls.

Thats not a bad idea. It wouldnt reduce the “THIS IS SPARTA” moments where the pet decides to take an enemy down along with them wait a risen! That one too! ooh Another risen, Im taking you down with me too! perks little pet ears to the left That one too! And that one! And that one!

hahaha

On a different note, has anyone used Pigs much? I have been finding them incredibly effective. Bout to make a thread on it.

tcat.6725:

I find the playstyle and attitude of many, not all, that want to push through a dungeon, or rant on a pvp battlefield unenjoyable. So I stay away from that activity. I don’t care about acended or legendary items, they have no impact on my playstyle.

Thats pretty much how I feel. I think that the elitism is even more pervasive in a PvP scenario (including WvW in this game). I still havent found PvE to ever be particularly engaging even if its programmed to be difficult though. I want to be outsmarted by my opponent, and that wont happen until AI in games advances further.

I think this game does relatively well in limiting the avenues of elitism, so I have started to PvP again. Even then though, it obviously happens on the same team, where I have seen commanders tell new players to leave because they were taking up a spot that a “real” player could occupy. The commanders I respect tend to teach new players rather than disparage. After all, that means more people on your server are more capable, making the team stronger.

Most are too enamored with winning right now that they become short sighted. I would even say they do more damage over time (DoT! :P) to the overall strength of the team than that “casual” that was on the map for a couple of fights.

I think one issue is that many have equated being a good player to being a good leader. But, a good player can be terrible at leading. A good leader, even if not particularly skilled at the game, can be one of the largest force multipliers that you can put in your team. The issue is, it does take time to gain that knowledge and elitism prevents many who struggle with the game itself from having any motivation to become a leader.

Its not just in MMOs either, I think its a general social behavior. Some can see past it, but most can not.

I think that those who can actually recognize their weaknesses, instead of thinking they have none, have the potential to not only become better players but actually have the potential of, in time, making the entire team stronger through capable leaders. Not just people who are top dog because they play the best.

This is coming from someone who at one point was extremely competitive in video games. I competed passionately in games like Soul Calibur II (still my favorite fighting game). That was in the “arcade” days, haha. At this point, I am a decent enough player but I am constantly put off by the attitude and behavior of individuals towards others. And not just in video games…

I dont think they realize they do more harm than good. We can become so focused on winning the one battle that we are entirely willing to lose the war, so to speak. In insular groups, like guilds, this doesnt necessarily have an impact other than the number of skilled players they have. In areas like WvW though, it hurts the server (the team) in the long run.

Will it ever change?

Nope!

So, I just bop along doing my thing. A lot of the time, I even look at other players on the field as NPCs :X

edit: If you couldnt guess, I spend 90% of my time in WvW

Pretty much just to echo what everyone else is saying..

Supply crate is actually a pretty decent elite skill. AoE stun, with some continuing presence. It can really, really come in handy.

The other I like, on any class, is the D-Series Golem (defensive one). Most important part about this is that the golem lays down Shield of Absorption, which is a light field. If you dont know about combos, etc, the light field can be used like so:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Light_field
edit: Here is the link for Shield of Absorption as well (it is also cast by Guardians);
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_of_Absorption

Can be pretty handy.

Offensive golem is “ok.” It does decent enough damage. I would much rather have the combo field though.

Golem suit is terrible in combat. Though, I think its kind of neat to “wear” every once in a while. ETA: Also wanted to add that its possible to “fake” a golem rush in WvW with a bunch of Asura. Dont use real golems so there isnt a direct reference, and get ~10 players to rush someones garrison. Usually gets some good attention so you can move most of your other forces elsewhere unimpeded. Dont expect to live though.

achensherd.2735:

—Previously in Arah Exp 1—

“Raven, go claw the blobs out of those blobs! Raven, what are you doing? Raven, why are you flying past the blobs to attack the spiders? Raven, stahp!”

Party wipe

“Thanks, Raven. -_-”

After a tough couple of days, that was greatly appreciated! Sure made me laugh, hahaha.

I love noticing all-of-a-sudden that my pet is not by my side. Where for art thou, bear? I look off in the distance to see nothing but a bear butt surrounded by 20 red names bouncing and particle effects galore.

Its a double edged sword, it can be grandly entertaining in some situations. Ill frequently let them duke it out, and I have to say, the bear is a tough one. Takes like 3 days to burn through a few mobs, but I guess thats the price paid for being one tough SOB. I pretty much use the bear solely for this reason (its the only pet family that can take care of itself). Others, like birds and felines, seem to work in much better in overall play. Love the stealth jag with 30% crit damage increase. But now, because of this thread, I see exactly what the poor thing has to deal with.

I LOVE the sword main hand, but you can actually make that root work for you to an extreme degree. Even on that heart quest, the best you can do is compensate and hopefully just hit the darn rabbit. Certainly cant seem to make it work to your benefit. So, not only is the AI incapable of compensating for itself.. even if it could, it is too stifling for it to even use it for benefit.

Why are they rooted during their animation, again? Anet.. you gots some splainin to do! :P

You know, I always found that heart a little annoying exclusively because of how tedious it is to hit things.

I have found you can compensate for it pretty effectively, but obviously, the AI never will. I had not made the correlation to our own pets though, and it really does make a lot of sense. I tend to just use pets for random bursts, and support f2 skills (like regen, or chilling opponents). Most of the time, I have them on passive. They have been extremely problematic otherwise.

Still doesnt explain their attitude problem when it comes to aggroing EVERYTHING around me. Dont know if its just me, but when on “aggressive,” my pet will literally aggro everything in site. Running from one mob to the next attacking. If I could get it to happen reliably, it might even be useful! But, no..

I seem to have a really bad habit of walking that line at the edge of cliffs during fights.

If I wanted to sound cool, I would say its because it increases the chances of my opponent falling off. But, in reality, it just seems to be some weird habit. Ironically, I have never knocked something off of a cliff to its demise. Period.

That said, the amount of times I have taken myself out.. I couldnt even attempt to quantify. Regardless of if its RTL, Overcharged Shot, or Serpents Strike, I seem incredibly adept at flirting with gravity.

Sadly, I never win. But, gravity is a purdy lady.

Last time was a few days ago on my (at the time) lvl 55 ranger.

I wanted that Reef Drake. Wanted it bad. And I got it! Woot!

Took like an hour, tons of scouting/sneaking, and probably half a dozen deaths.. but I gots it!

For a PvE environment, I tend to enjoy it. Seems to be more difficult than other lvl 80 zones and I do think the rewards should reflect that. Some people seem to get more loot there than other places, but my experience has been different. I dont PvE much though, beyond leveling, so its entirely possible I am doing it wrong.

Be prepared to have your MIND BLOWN!!!

Well, not really.. I just like to make an entrance.

Targeting has always been an issue of mine in this game, and it is at its worst using my current Bandit build (sword/dagger and GS). After a bit of messing around with settings, I have found a pretty decent solution in the targeting options.

I figure that many already know about this, but thats ok, I sure didnt and it has almost turned it into a completely new game for me. I have finally found the functionality I was looking for. Go to Options→Control Options→then the last option in the targeting sub menu (I havent been able to run the game today due to corrupted data, thanks Anet!). If I am able to get back into the game, Ill post the exact wording (or if maybe someone else could?). The name of the option is not particularly clear, something like “Auto-Target Lock.”

Try putting it on a key that is easy to press constantly, as well as hold down for varying amounts of time. This allows you to target the highlighted mob in the center of your screen, ONLY for as long as you hold the button down. To make it even better, it can be used to deselect your current target without clicking on some “open” space on the screen (in wvw, this can be a real problem).

Try it out! Dont be discouraged because it says “auto” and “lock,” as it doesnt really do either of those things! It also appears to be more reliable in targeting who you want to target, as it will just be the enemy that is in the center of your screen, with a “highlighted” name.

Maybe not Ranger specific, but I no longer have as many issues with targeting, thats for sure!

Alright, I have been trying to edit this into the OP, but it isnt working (buggy forums…).

Just wanted to add that this is not a “relaxing” weapon set or build. It takes quite a large amount of effort to get results. If I am extremely tired, I will only tend to play this if I want to get frustrated as you NEED to be on the ball about every evade. Well, maybe not EVERY one, but each one you successfully make puts you that much closer to victory and your enemy that much closer to defeat!

To sum up the idea, this is a condition based evasion “tank.”

First, the current build:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/ranger/?6.1|1.1b.h1e|c.1b.h1.8.1b.h1j|1b.7j.1b.7j.1b.7j.1b.7j.1b.7j.1b.7j|1b.61.1b.61.1b.61.1b.61.1b.61.1b.61|0.k14.u49c.k36.0|0.0|4i.1.4t.4r.55|e

The idea was, as the title states, to theorycraft a “bandit.” A very quick and mobile character that deals damage through poison, bleeding, and crits. I also wanted to get as much control as possible, so that I can do those things unimpeded. In actually making the build though, I ended up with quite a bit more defense than I expected so I catered to it a little. The buffs I focused on are protection and vigor. Vigor to keep the evades going, and protection for when they arent. I didnt worry about condition duration at all, simply because they tend to get cleansed before duration buffs start to kick in (I mostly play WvW).

I have found myself changing the utility skills around quite a bit. When I am traveling in WvW, I use the speed signet. I was initially using muddy ground for AoE control, but have found that the spirit has the same utility (even if its okitten0% longer CD) but also provides protection (which is extended due to increased boon duration). The only one that doesnt change is Pain Inverter because of my inordinate love for the skill. The skills I use in-combat the most are: Guard, Protect Me, Signet of the Wild, Stone Spirit, Lightning Reflexes, Quickening Zephyr, and Pain Inverter. It all depends on how I intend to approach any given fight, allowing for quite a bit of unpredictability.

Originally, I focused solely on condition damage. However, I found that I could give up ~20% cond damage in return for 50% crit rate and 50% crit damage. I thought the trade off was fair, so have been playing it.

I use my auto skills/AoE to damage groups, and focus on poisoning and bleeding specific characters. To avoid damage, I mainly focus on evades like sword 2, 3, and dagger 4. However, when I do get hit (inevitably), the build has a decent amount of armor and gets the protection boon constantly.

The biggest difference on this build is that it is done with the idea of only using an active target in specific situations. 90% of the time is spent with NO active target. For me, this took a lot of practice to break some pretty old habits. However, once done, the bandit plays very much like a character in a fighting game. I basically get in, do some damage with melee and lay down as much conditions as possible, then get out (usually right back to the protection spirit).

Learning to use the skills of the sword main hand and greatsword alt weapon is the lynchpin of this build. Using the last attack in the auto sword attack chain can allow for very, very quick movement both in and out of the milieu of combat. I have found it more useful to change position quickly than actual damage. Of course, it can also be used to stick to someone trying to get away if they are targeted. Both part 2 and part 3 of the attack chain can be activated twice if you dont hit anyone the first time and hit the skill during the current animation. With pounce, this can allow for quite a large amount of distance covered and if used with monarchs leap and swoop.. You can either get to safety very quickly, or dive into combat before anyone knows you are there.

I tried to create this type of gameplay with the thief, but was sorely dissapointed. There just wasnt much room for skill or creativity. I recently deleted the thief to roll this ranger, without knowing that I would be able to create exactly what I was looking for in the thief. Once I started to use my weapons and skills without using a target (except to call them for the group), I was sold. I also found that my pet will attack who I am attacking (generally), without having them actively targeted. Still trying to figure out the best way to incorporate pets into the overall build. For now, they are just icing on the cake.

I have been very happy with it so far, though undoubtedly, I will constantly make changes like with all of my characters.

I feel the sword skill set for the ranger is easily one of the most engaging and fun I have ever played in an MMO. If you havent tried it yet, because it felt clunky and you hate being constantly rooted, give it some time without an active target! Eventually, I hope they make it so that activating skills does not reset the auto attack chain. If/when this is done, it will create one of the most thrilling and difficult to play styles I have encountered in an MMO.

Thanks for reading! And sorry if this has been posted before!

nerva.7940:

Yeh works well for bunker play which is great for spvp. The issue in wvw is that the gs and “utility” increase your kill time. If ure dancing around, blocking or whatever ure not doing damage. And considering there are no points to hold in wvw, utility is a waste of time. If you cant get kills quickly or support your team in a significant way, youre just derping around and wasting time. Ranger gs has absolutely no purpose in the wvw meta.

Sure glad the people I play with arent min/max anymore!

Either way, the “dancing around” was referring to the sword main hand and not the GS. And, as you say, the sword does more damage than the GS, but its auto is pretty much bouncing around. Of course, it also does damage at the same time. I can understand the miscommunication if you have never used the sword much, it does feel a bit clunky at first!

I also like to use my entire skill set (including weapons), so that means choosing a secondary weapon which synergizes with a very specific playstyle. When one weapon has the majority of skills on cooldown, I switch to the other since you cant activate abilities that are on cooldown. Even if it isnt as good as the sword main hand normally, it sure is when it has skills available.

Of course, I have found a very, very predictable response to the auto attack of the mainhand sword, and that is drawing the enemies attention. When this happens, they are attacking me and not my team mates (called tanking). The GS allows me to continue to take enemy fire without going down, even when one weapon set has all skills on cooldown. The longer this can be done, even with ZERO damage output from myself, the longer my team can fight without taking that damage.

I play to have fun, if I win its just icing on the cake but its not a huge issue to me. I believe we have quite a fundamental difference there.

I dont do spvp/tpvp, pretty much only WvW.

Just want to add that when you use something that gives you quickness, it reduces the animation times in half.

How this translates to skills like monarchs leap is that you essentially only move half the distance. Important to remember! It has gotten me a couple times. I assume its a bug, but havent looked into it much.

etiolate.9185:

Hsinimod is mostly right. When you reach a point during an event that is the critical zerg point, the amount of players attacking removes the need to strategize and play smart. You can just overcome the obstacle with brute force. The Shatterer with just 8-10 people is actually a bit challenging. With 30-40 people, everyone just sits int he same spot spamming attacks and letting the AOE cap protect them.

Fighting a Champion with two or three players actually involves all the elements of combat and depth the game has. Certain dungeon encounters show ways to play cooperatively and with smarts. The small scale sPVP shows these elements.

However, if all you do is spam 1 ikittenerg, the reason you aren’t finding any combat depth is because you are in the worst situation to be in if you’re looking for depth. Though, even then, I had learned and discovered the tricks and nuances of combat in the game leveling up my first character. If you’re still clueless at this point then there certainly is a player-error issue going on.

ANet does need to find a way to make fights interesting and challenging once the amount of players becomes a brute force zerg. Grenth’s temple and the AC redesign shows some of their early work on improving this.

You know, while I play a little PvE (ok, even saying that is a bit generous), I mostly do WvW. Obviously, such issues play out much differently there, so I think its good to get some insight from other perspectives. Thanks!

Honestly, I think the biggest improvement in PvE content in any game will come with advancing AI. Programmers have yet to come even close to the unpredictability and “fight” of a person controlling what happens. Might even be interesting to implement a system where in the large event DEs a programmer, or predesignated player, takes control of the NPC. It could serve as a good placeholder until AI gets to a more capable level. edit: You might even be able to make it a part of the group/party mechanic where predesignated players of the group would take on the roles of the different “big baddies” in the main boss fights of dungeons, fractals, etc. Though, it would be extremely open to exploitation obviously.

Tried to fix it, but that is one pervasive message board bug!

Danielapsama.1672:

You just blew my mind… It’s time to take my armour off and play in HARDCORE MODE!

hehehe.. I actually will weaken myself to using just one or two skills quite a bit. It also helps to hone my ability on those specific skills, but it sure can make some fights hard!

hehehe.. I actually will weaken myself to using just one or two skills quite a bit. It also helps to hone my ability on those specific skills, but it sure can make some fights hard!Currently, I am practicing not using active evades AT ALL, but only those available through my weapon sets (currently ranger sword/dagger & greatsword). Cant rave enough about the class with that weapon set. :P Ideally, when all is said and done, I will start implementing active dodges again and be even better than before.

I find plenty of depth in weapon sets like the ranger one handed sword. My only issue with it is that using other skills resets the main attack chain. If that were to change, I would be hard pressed to find a single game (mmo-style) that offers so much depth with so little complexity. It puts the success and creativity solely in the hands of the player. I admit that most people would rather have the complex appearance rather than actual depth, since that allows the individual to put in far less effort and have the game handle the “depth” for them. I dont feel there is anything wrong with it, I am just happy to see a game finally working towards a relatively simple system that has a depth that is determined by the creativity of the player.

That said, I have found the ranger one handed sword to be the best example of such a thing, and many (if not most) of the weapon sets of classes do not come close. However, that is because most people do not want to have to put in a lot of effort actively, but would rather do it passively. So, marketing-wise, its good to appeal to as many as possible. I much prefer to have both, through traits/gear/build that is put into fluid action in combat. I kind of get the feeling that the depth of the ranger one handed sword might have been unintentional.

Different strokes for different folks, but I much prefer to handle the creativity, depth, and gameplay flow rather than have the game do it passively. While GW2 isnt perfect in this regard, I hope to see more weapon sets like the ranger sword. At the same time though, doing that would isolate a large portion of the population who would rather just have the appearance of depth rather than create it themselves actively and constantly. I am not sure what would be the healthiest for the game overall.

As others are saying, follow a commander. Its the most straightforward way to learn the ropes. That said, not all commanders are equal. Some know what they are doing, but will not help others learn. Some know what they are doing, and help others. Both can be incredibly effective, but try to find the latter for your situation. Of course, there are those who have no idea what they are doing!

Keep in mind too, that there are plenty without a commander tag that can help as well. You can ask questions in /map or /team and generally get pretty good answers. You will, like anything involving the internet, probably have to deal with.. less than helpful replies.

Good luck!

I will give you something to ponder..

Everything is a challenge if you are terrible at the game.

:D

CureForLiving.5360:

Not being the best orator I’ve learned how to find good examples of things and then point to them, it also saves me the hassle of having to explain things myself.
Anyway on the topic of depth, this: http://extra-credits.net/episodes/depth-vs-complexity/

I was going to make a quick reply that basically said you are talking about a concept which most people will simply not be able to understand or comprehend.

I decided to watch the video first, and I think it actually explains it in a way that most can understand!

Now, just like video states, whether one chooses to find that depth is always, always up in the air. I would even go so far as to say that most prefer the appearance of depth through convoluted complexity, rather than put any effort in themselves. And in that, GW2 is a bit lacking. Personally, I much prefer it this way, so I play this game. If I didnt, I would play another game that throws a bunch of stuff at me to make it appear to have substantial depth. There are plenty!

nerva.7940:

the fascination with GS fascinates me. it’s a very gimpy weapon, nice for lulz every now and then. works fine when youre fighting noobs or running away.

It is the only weapon I have found that synergizes at all with the playstyle of the one handed sword (best utilized, personally, with no active target). Axe works, to an extent, but you need to aim very carefully and frequently have to aim “up” for the arc. Off hand axe is a little better than main hand since path of scars seems to follow the ground plane.

It gives me a gap closer so I can continue jumping around like a bouncy ball, as well as a block, and an evade (third attack in main chain). If you turn off auto attack, you can “hold” the last part of the chain for a couple seconds to wait for the best moment. The stun is useful as well.

On its own, I found it lackluster, but used together with sword/dagger I find it to be quite effective especially when taking a slightly more defensive stance (though not running away).

If it is an 80 plus certified PSU, you can learn more about it here:

http://www.plugloadsolutions.com/80PlusPowerSuppliesDetail.aspx?id=55&type=2

Pretty useful site, honestly. It allows you to learn who designed/manufactured the PSU, since many companies do not make their own. It has netted me some great deals! That 650 should be fine for a single card like the 7850, or one of similar performance.

Good luck if you choose to learn the ways of the Sword! It felt clunky and unintuitive at first, mainly until I stopped targeting altogether and turned off auto attack (important! you will essentially self-root otherwise). But, the amount of depth is so much fun to me. Still practicing landing sword 3 reliably on my target. Just want to make it clear though, there is a learning curve with it. A bigger one than I have run into on any other class, with any weaponset, by a pretty large margin.

Just wanted to add: To increase my survivability I focus on the strengths of the weapon set, and that is basically avoiding damage by movement and evades (and, very importantly, with no active target). So, I also use traits and utilities that give me either vigor, or faster movement. Things like lightning reflexes are phenomenal in this regard. And something like quickening zephyr allows you to hit your evade skills more in a shorter time span. Most fun I have had playing this game, and that is with 4 classes at 80, and another at 60. I deleted my 80 thief to make this ranger, and couldnt be happier. Still working on how best to integrate my pet into the playstyle, as it doesnt seem to fit. Currently, I just target from a distance, and get them attacking. Then, deselect my active target and do it to it.

Overall, I think your setup is “ok.”

You can look at upgrading the GPU (video card) at some point and would probably be very satisfied with that setup. Just have to make sure your power supply is decent (that that rings true for all computers).

As for dual wielding, I use sword/dagger and a greatsword. I like feeling like some ninja flying all over the place. It has taken a lot of practice to make it effective though, and you have to get used to not targetting anything.. I prefer the sword/dagger overall, but the greatsword seems to be the only other weapon that can be used semi-effectively with no target.

With the sword/dagger combo though, it opens up into a much different playstyle than I have found with any other class. Very, very effective once you start to get it down in WvW and PvE (I dont do spvp/tpvp, so might be different there). Expect to be flying around ALL over the place until you get used to it though. And even then…

I really enjoy the depth of the combat with some classes, but some are pretty mindless (like the thief). My first character was a thief, and if I hadnt played others I might not still be playing. Recently deleted the thief, btw! Level 80 and full exos. Fun part was, when I bought the gear, it was pretty cheap and even in salvaging, made almost double my money!

The current combat system I am learning is with ranger sword. Pretty tricky system to learn (at least to me), but has an enormous amount of possibilities. Along with the GS, I dont target anyone at all and just use the combat animations themselves. I have found it to be just as engaging as one of my favorite games of all time, Soul Calibur 2. Loving it!

Considering that it has evolved over time (statue being destroyed, etc), I would venture a guess that that would continue.

I am interested to see where it goes. Lately, I have been extremely happy with some of the moves Anet is making. Not so happy with some, but overall, I look forward to seeing the Tyria of GW2 in a year or two.

I think more maps is something I can get behind. I also think that implementing them with the current ones would allow for more land. If this was coupled with more significant upgrades (over large amounts of time, maybe have them purchasable by the claiming guild with influence), it would create more stable “territories” and lead to some pretty epic battles. If done right, it would also encourage something like secretly taking the main keep first as a viable option to destabilize the region.

I think it would be hard to work it into the one week time frame, but it might be better suited for the multiple week game they had initially envisioned. Runaway servers would still be an issue, but those games are going on for multiple weeks at a time anyway.

I also think that a revision to the outmanned buff would help mitigate server balance issues. In thinking about it, I believe the easiest implementation would be to modify the current out-manned buff to some type of attribute increase, like upleveling. This buff would be map-wide, but in individual fights, the buff would decrease according to how equal the sides are. I think the best range to start the buff would be 5:1 (the AoE limit). Meaning, even if it was 25 vs 5 there wouldnt be a buff. But, start to get into a 50 vs 8, and there would be corresponding buffs to the out numbered side. Obviously, that number would have to be tested. Doing it map wide would allow for total server numbers to be taken into consideration for the max buff possible, to help fight possible exploits.

I think there is a great foundation the build off of with WvW, I just hope it happens in some way!

edit: It also would be neat to add buildable sections of wall to the siege we are able to build.

Leamas.5803:

Over time it will. With a percentage RNG, so 1..100, 10000 iterations will be almost linear with an average distribution of 100 hits per bucket with some variation, of course. If this isn’t the case, then your RNG is faulty.
Example of what it might look like…
http://logicalgenetics.com/assorted/upload/dist-uniform.gif

Well, for specific purposes the RNG would be faulty. The less predictable one is though, the more it walks towards truly being random. So, it would be a more capable RNG, just not for specific purposes like a video game.

What you’re asking for is not to have 42% of attacks evaded, it’s to evade 1 out of every 2.38 attacks and that is an entirely different thing…much less exciting. Without some randomness there’s no variety.

That is exactly what Im saying. RNG consistency notwithstanding, that was my whole point. But, to say its “much less exciting” is an interesting statement. When it comes to actual play, I notice very little difference. In other words, if the game is exciting, then Id be shocked to see people even notice the difference in combat, much less care.

Of course, with a proper fixed percentage system, the randomness appears just as random to the user when it comes to loot tables. And I doubt the user would be able to tell the difference in combat without being told, or at least a bit of study. Beyond that, it gives more control over the scarcity of the items.

I always found using an RNG system in a specifically non-random way to be an interesting use of a programming mechanic. To confine an RNG to specific results, as inherent to a game, then usually weighted to certain directions isnt really an RNG at all. Its end goal is the same as a fixed percentage system, just not realized that way from the ground up.

Anyway, the devs are going to do what they will do. I think we both know that. While its not perfect (Im looking at you culling), I have seen some things with the game that make me happy, so Im satisfied overall.

edit: Now if they would just make my air elemental float again… :\