Guild Wars 2

Jamaz.9837:

Right now, a great player can make Engineer viable, but if that same player played a D/D Elementalist, Shatter Mesmer, or Backstab Thief, they’d be gods in WvW.

Further, grenades don’t do nearly enough damage to siege as Elementalists nor do they have the spread to hit those placed in the back of walls.

My lvl 80 engi, in all exotics, has taken a back seat to my d/d ele. For the same amount of effort, I am SIGNIFICANTLY more effective on the ele. With kits, it is essentially like the attunement changes, so it was a pretty easy switch. The engi took a LOT more effort to get even close to the same efficacy as my ele.

I had actually shelved the engie with the expectation that they would receive some sort of buff to make them.. useful? I am pretty surprised at this, honestly. I was pretty capable on my engie (used a ton of different builds and several sets of exotics), but the ele responds to the effort I put in much, much better.

Now its just time to wait for my ele to be ruined as well. There are actually people complaining about them (even though they are pretty easily neutralized, though devastating if not focused down at the beginning of an engagement).

What are you doing to your game Anet?

It is currently Henosis [ONE], in the past its been.. Cry of War [CoW] and a few others I cant immediately recall

We are on Darkhaven. At the games release, I personally tried to take part in the whole DHA thing giving ideas, etc. No one listened, though I do see some of the suggestions being put into use just as a matter of course (it was bound to happen eventually).

So, I gave up on actually attempting to help, and we are just looking for a server with a good base and foundation to build off of. I dont believe specifically what we are looking for exists currently though. I havent seen anyone give ideas for long term goals, “training camps” for new players that might be intimidated otherwise, encouraging more wvw participation, contests, etc.

Honestly, its not a big deal :P I doubt such a thing will ever exist unless enough people get together and actively pursue it (which is why I responded).

I Will Rez U.1743:

Ahahaha im pretty sure solo was just hypothetically speaking how cool it would be if all 3 servers where merged into one.

Hypothetically or not, I am personally for the idea. Obviously not everyone will be. However, I have zero loyalty to any arbitrary server and all the loyalty in the world to those I play with. I would venture to say most are the same. Even with all the fabricated “server loyalty” in existence, most are likely to switch servers without a second thought if the people they actively play with move.

I am not personally looking for an “ultimate” server or any of that nonsense either. I never want to be on a server that is T3+. Though, I would certainly enjoy having a decent server, with great people and players, that can cover 24 hrs out of the day. If achieving that goal requires me to move servers, thats an easy choice as I only have loyalty to those I play with and not some name assigned to a computer.

If people are interested, they are interested. If not, I will just continue playing and enjoying the game as I have been. My guild has been talking about transferring servers anyway.

Iplaytokill.1674:

We could always gather the guilds from both DH and DB willing to team up, and drop down to a low tier server. Leaving both DH and DB.

Just wanted to say I wouldnt be opposed to this idea. I am only part of a very small guild, but I have a lot of respect for many DB players. Wouldnt mind fighting together for the same objective.

Tuluumen, Henosis [ONE]

edit: there are a couple commanders Id like to see in support of the idea before Id actually commit as I love fighting alongside them, like Kirrena and much of GoF.

joebane.5872:

This is an outrage!

Now… where are my twinkies

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/hostess-maker-twinkies-ding-dongs-says-closing-business-1C7112898

:(

SmokeyNYY.7841:

The thief has to get near someone to continuously stealth.

Been a bit since I played my thief, but.. no they dont. Leap finisher + smoke field. Add in things like strategically used shadow refuge, and c&d on stragglers near perimeter (including npc mobs), and it is really quite easy to remain stealthed using a variety of methods.

They can all be countered, but as someone who stopped playing thief because it felt cheap (so take it for what its worth), I dont think this extent of permastealth was intended. Even with zero culling issues, it remains a problem. Albeit, a slightly smaller one.

SmokeyNYY.7841:

Dude its not gamebreaking. Learn to the play the game. If you guys simple stack up and AoE the thief would be dead within 30 seconds.

A thief who is HSing through a smoke field on the perimeter would love that :P Break the zerg? Then just go back to good ol c&d on stragglers. Its not hard.

One of my characters is a thief.

@ Arius:

" It would be a change if suddenly everyone in WvW became a pink pony, does that mean it would be good?"

O. M. G.!!1!

I am totally starting that movement! Who is with me?

The pink ponies of doom shall ride.

DH here. I had a lot of fun catching pumpkins from the CD “spawn campers” on EB tonight! Dont know if you were actually playing along, but still, was just a ton of fun (really!).

And the up arrow thief who kept trying to kill me was just precious :P

@Scorpio: I think that would be pretty neat. Though, most will probably want to keep them to their server exclusively. I am of the other mind, wanting greater and greater competition, so I would personally readily share my ideas.

Also, its exactly what many servers should be doing, imo (implementing applicable military style tactics). They work for a reason! They also have been tried and tested over.. quite a few years. Adapting, of course, for changes in technology. This adaptation could be transferred to the game pretty easily. It would be execution and participation that would be difficult.

We could also learn quite a bit from strategies in other well-established PvP games. Something like SC2 is fairly similar in that there is “offense, defense, and supply.” Just some ideas

As far as a PvP thread that doesnt have complaining or its inverse, ego stroking.. (just as annoying in my book) good luck with that!

I wasnt speaking of formations at all

Either way, it would be quite difficult, which is what makes them “advanced!” If I see such a thing, I will be impressed. It will also be incredibly effective, if even only by means of superior communication, execution, and tactics.

@Scorpio: Like I said, its a completely legitimate tactic. However, I have seen actual advanced tactics from servers that use this and prefer it. You will greatly struggle to convince me that bubbling takes more coordination than say, a multi-prong tiered attack. Its also much more boring. To succeed in a bubble what you will need are two things; A commander icon and people to actually read chat (the latter being much, much harder than the former). Then say “stack on comm! put up bubbles when one isnt up!”

Edit: I will give you that bubbling is more advanced than simply throwing yourselves at the enemy.

I am aware of ways to negate the bubble, I tried to make it clear thats not my issue. Thanks though!

First off, this is a completely legitimate tactic. Rendering issues not included, of course. It is also incredibly effective. So much so that the best recourse is to either set up siege out of range, or bubble yourselves and set up siege within.

Secondly, it is “Bubble Wars” not any of the others!

As for this being some sort of sign of great coordination and tactics; all it takes is a few people to push a button when its no longer dark and for everyone to stay in the bright bubble on screen. Attacking enemies will do the rest.

Either way, this type of gameplay is incredibly boring and certainly taking a lot of the fun away from WvW for me. It just becomes a game of who can get siege up first. There is limited teamwork, limited mobility, limited skills involved and overall is just painfully dull. All anyone has to do is stay in the bubble, and those putting up the bubble need to press their button. Meh.

As was mentioned, an easy way to mitigate this would be to make it like every single other AoE type spell in the game in that its effects only apply to five people.

Worban.1574:

It is way too early to make any predictions for the week and how it will end. Maybe upon completion of our first, normal weekday, well after the dust of weekend battles has settled, we can start to make some initial predictions.

Everyone knows Darkhaven’s strength is a well-organized evening/night crew that often has the numbers on opposing servers. It’s not unusual for us to control most of all four maps by the time our hard-cores go to bed. It’s also quite normal to see us lose almost everything we gained during the day. Looking at the situation right now, while we’re losing a lot, is the historical pattern of our server. While that is unfortunate for us, it has been stated a few times on this thread that its the perfect opportunity for our opponents to make their comeback, undoing our gains. But rest assured, we hit back hard again as the sun starts to set over the Americas.

The opening day has unfolded sort of as I expected (or hoped, I should say) . I would even admit they exceeded my expectations against NSP, which was two brackets above us last week. I will say it was some intensely fun fighting against both servers, for sure!

While any prediction of the final outcome is premature, I can predict the daily patterns. Servers will leapfrog with us by very wide margins. Instead of it being a tight fight around the clock, constantly inching ahead or falling behind by tiny margins, this will be a week of major gains and major losses. We (Darkhaven) will shoot ahead by 10-15k points then fall behind by roughly the same amount. In the end it will sort of balance out and end up a fairly close fight in the last 24-36 hours, with every server pouring everything they have into WvW to cross the finish line in 1st place.

I do admit that I am a bit nervous about seeing NSP in full force. If your server decides to rest up and unleash your full power, then all bets are off; even my daily pattern predictions are called into question. I just want DH to put up a really good fight, make it fun and worth everybody’s effort.

I have a lot of faith in DH and we have improved significantly in the last few weeks! We have a ways to go, to work on our problems, but we make notable progress each and every day towards that goal.

Without a doubt, we have the potential to pull the upset victory and finish on top. But I am far from making any predictions at this point.

My thoughts.. exactly….

GET OUT OF MY HEAD WORBAN!!!

Signed,
Seng

For me, the serious issues started with the update on Oct 3rd. I started having very serious skill lag issues (skills wouldnt activate, or would activate ten seconds after I pressed them). The game would constantly freeze as well.

With the latest update, not only has THAT problem gotten worse, but things like culling have as well. I am guessing that what we are experiencing is related to culling, though maybe not. I think its probably a fix gone very, very wrong.

I even started a new character, thinking that my level 80 might be an issue just with all the the extra information under its belt, but no go. The new character was literally being forced across the screen in various directions for a few seconds at a time (in PvE, mind you). I would be running forward, and the animation was correct, but it was like I was being pulled by an invisible force. Much faster than in game movement as well.

I am an ardent supporter of GW2 and Anet, but everyone has their limits. These types of things are absolutely game-breaking. Odd thing is, at launch, it seemed like the game was significantly more stable than it is now, and I see that thought mirrored by some other people as well.

I can see backstab getting nerfed, without a doubt.

Either way, if they fixed the rendering issues, I feel that 90% of the complaints about thieves would go away. There would still be QQ obviously, but you can trait so QQ refills your initiative, so its all good.

:)

Morpeth.5318:

I LOVE when people on the winning server say ‘l2p’ or $uck it up. Because when you’re outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1, and the enemy has +15% hps and +150 stats it’s SO easy right. I’m sure people in huge zergs with massive buffs think they have l33t skillz and feel free to criticize people playing 6 days at a disadvantage. Anyone can zerg, and honest people know it’s neither skill or anything else at that point.

Of course, a proper zerg takes skill and coordination.

That being said, WvW is almost entirely a numbers game. If you have greater numbers, you are going to win pretty much no matter what. There are exceptions, like every rule, but it will really only be for a single battle and not the entire “war.”

Also, getting better and learning from your play is a good thing. Getting frustrated at the suggestion is pointless. Rise above it, eh? We all have room for improvement, no matter the tier.

Zulubeast.8519:

I have constantly, through these own forums, given suggestions (via the DHA thread, which most if not all my points were ignored and breezed over). I used to sit on vent constantly and talk strategy as you well know, but it got to the point where it was the zerg way or the highway for most decisions, which was just so frustrating to hear. I understand that the zerg was awesome at night and there was no reason to change it, but when the time came when someone rebounded and fought us at night (aka SoR) none of my suggestions of upgrading, setting up useful counterseige was taken and instead we’d just trade keeps with them when we could’ve taken keeps while defending the ones we took quite easily.

I have made the same suggestions in-game.

Some day it will click, and that will be the day we start really coming together as a server.

I think having some overarcing themes to our gameplan would be helpful too. Being able to defend what we take is absolutely imperative. I think the zerg portion of our gameplay is pretty decent, but it is only one facet to a well rounded plan.

Even without strict organization, if we all focused on the same basic tenets, we could really have some success.

1. Our zerg tactics are fine, mostly. They could use improvement but for now we should focus on other things.

2. Defend what we take. Upgrade keeps and towers with the most effective upgrades for the supply (reinforced walls/gates especially). Things like guard upgrades may simply be a waste of supply/money right now, but we can always experiment too.

3. Defend supply camps and send escorts out with the dolyaks to make sure those upgrades can actually happen.

If we start our base game on these principles, then I think we can really start to look at improving. When we have these basics down, then we can start honing them and introducing more advanced tactics. But if we could get this going server wide in WvW, we wouldnt even need direct communication during action. We would all already know what to do, and how to go about it.

So there ya go, some suggestions.

I am getting this too, though it tends to be throughout the game world. It is significantly more noticable in WvW though. Never had an issue before last patch.

It makes the game very, very close to unplayable. It would make it entirely unplayable if I didnt just enjoy it as much as I do. Though, this is starting to kill the game for me without a doubt.

My skills just sit there and flash at me. Every single death I have had, PvE or PvP has been due to this lately.

Finaldeath.1059:

I noticed this as well, once you hit the 70+ zones everyone turns into straight up kittens that will do nothing if it doesn’t benefit themselves.

I would suggest that many people are “straight up kittens” at every level. They just have an incentive to behave otherwise at lower levels. I also dont think people all of a sudden get jaded, etc. at higher levels as a source of the issue, just no incentive to not be entirely selfish.

So, you have to appeal to the selfishness to help such people help others.

I think a reasonable starting point would be to award a bit of copper for each rez once you are level capped. Maybe make it a bit less than the mobs randomly drop (50c or so in Cursed Shores). It might open some doors to exploiting as well, but it can be easier to plug those holes as they appear.

Just an idea

Katie Feathermoore.5031:

Seconded. Was this added purely for the economic reasons we all know? And does that really outweigh the benefits that made them implement free travel in the first game? I would love to find out.

I think it will be interesting to see how effective it is longterm. As for now, the gold sinks most certainly do what they are supposed to do, as we can see evidenced by how many people are voicing their opinions on the lack of ability to make gold. At least to the extent they desire, as they can still make money.

I think in implementing it in something which cant necessarily be avoided, like waypoints, is a way to reach more users with economic restrictions. It allows for more control over the direction of the economy. If someone could suggest another way to effectively implement a gold sink that would impact as large of a percentage as waypoints, I would be interested to hear it!

The way it stands now, it is almost a forced equality amongst the playerbase. Whether or not this is “right” is up for debate, but it would certainly make it more difficult to obtain market domination for a small section of the game population. This is because the restrictions on wealth accrual apply to the vast majority of users. This is also complemented by having a cross-server trading facility and anti-farm code, allowing for distinct control of the growth of wealth of the overall playerbase with relative equality.

I can undoubtedly see some issues that may arise, as well as workarounds to still gain market advantage, but it remains to be seen how well this system works out in terms of its purpose. As for now, it seems to be working quite well, but it is very, very early in the games life.

Khristophoros.7194:

The cost is high enough that it makes me consider how much it impacts my wealth gain, though my wealth gain has stayed pretty healthy for the whole time I’ve been playing so far. It still has a negative impact on my playing experience regardless of the actual objective effect because it makes me consider how it impacts my wealth gain.

The psychological effect is that it brings farming and wealth gain to mind when I’m not currently interested in those things, like when I want to go socialize or do something else that’s unrelated to wealth gain. It bothers me to have that brought to mind at times when I don’t want to think about it.

It’s kind of difficult to weigh the real cost. How much am I spending over the long haul on this stuff? How does it affect my farming efficiency? These are things I don’t want to even calculate. It breaks the immersion for me to step back and do math on this. I’m fine with passing up potential min/maxing opportunities but when it’s forced into the foreground it becomes very annoying and stressful for me.

Thank you for taking your time to explain it a bit more. I think I get where you are coming from. Having a cost associated with something which you are using frequently tends to constantly remind you of your wallet when you would rather have it be something that just grows behind the scenes without bringing it to mind?

It brought it to my awareness as well, though I just observed to see if it caused an overall loss in my wallet due to how much I used waypoints (since I do use them quite a bit). When it didnt, I just shrugged my shoulders and moved on. Different strokes, and all that.

Fox.1054:

Redundant game design to me, I would like to hear a valid reason from an ArenaNet employee why they have this. In GW1 they were strongly against this, but now suddenly they are adding redundant stuff like WP costs and repair costs, quite coincidentally with the cash gem shop which seem to be the only possible reason things like these exist.

While I obviously disagree with the dislike of waypoint cost (I see the longterm benefit towards the overall game economy).. I feel repair costs, especially in PvP and dungeons, are very discouraging to playing those parts of the game. They could exist as effective gold sinks, while still allowing for wealth accrual, but they currently do not. There is a very high chance of losing in-game money to do these things, sometimes significant amounts.

nlgray.5846:

@Tuluum: You may have mentioned previously but I missed it, what level are you?

The prices do get downright step, which I am fine with for particular situations (convenience), not a penalty for me trying to hang out with some friends.

I only have one level 80 currently. Some other low levels too.

Khristophoros.7194:

It’s been said many times in this thread. The costs are high enough to make many players think twice before they go do something social in another zone, go help a friend, or go back to finish fully completing a low level zone.

The costs are high enough to limit how often players will choose to do those things. Those factors have been seriously bothering me ever since I hit level 60 or so.

I am obviously aware it has been stated in the thread already, which is why I asked if you would mind expanding further.

As I said already, wealth seems to grow regardless of how many waypoints I use. Though, I tend to use them to get to the other side of the map, or other zones, and very rarely if they are within 30 seconds or so of running. I switch zones generally 4-5 times at the very least in a couple hour play session, fwiw. I also use waypoints to go to 90% of DE’s that are announced in chat and constantly use them to go help others. I still notice my wealth growing.

So, it seems that there isnt any objective reason other than it doesnt allow for faster acquisition of gold. In this respect, even if the gold sink was applied elsewhere with the same efficacy, that same aspect would be present. Which seems to make that specific idea a moot point.

It seems the dislike for it is that it causes some people to recognize it costs in-game money in the first place, even though it doesnt necessarily cause an overall loss of earnings.

I am just trying to understand the perspective, because I currently dont. I never plan around waypoints, nor do I put any thought into whether or not it will be “worth my time.” I use them constantly, still grow my wallet, and just cant quite see where the issue resides. Perhaps I would understand better if you were to explain it to me, which is why I asked if you would expand in the first place.

nlgray:

If you constantly use way points, you should be broke, it’s working as intended.

I dont know, I constantly use waypoints and still find myself accruing wealth. The only thought I have is that they are being used by others drastically more than I am. Either that, or it is as suggested; that it is some sort of perceived psychological smack in the face. That one is all on the user though.

I look forward to seeing the longterm results of the economy control GW2 has implemented though. Whether it is effective or not remains to be seen.

Khristophoros.7194:

Thank you.

It’s not really about how much it impacts overall wealth gain for a player. It’s about the psychological and social effects.

Given that a subjective reaction to something which is still allowing for wealth acquisition is completely under the individuals control, I have trouble understanding this.

Regardless, would you mind expanding on what these psychological and social effects are? I simply do not experience them in my gameplay nor do the people I play with, which is why this topic makes me so curious. I do have some issues with the game (I truly hate Orr), but I find waypoint cost to be effective in its purpose. I also suspect it will become a moot point after a month of growing our wallets. Though, as I said, I havent even thought about it until I visited the forums.

nvm, you also bring up an interesting point with salvaging (cant edit post to add this in for whatever reason). I only salvage “salvage items,” and sell pretty much all equipment and gear I get. I will randomly salvage gear, but not very often. Only if I need a piece of crafting material that I know will be given by a certain piece.

nvmvoidrays.2158:

what are you doing with all your money? i’ve never had a single problem with way-point costs (which people act is like some big, huge, game-breaking issue…).

well, that’s a lie. the one time i did is when i was stupid and bought an item and that left me with a few silver, but, that was my ownkittenfault and not the games.

look in your collectibles tab. surely, you don’t need every single material there, right? i’d also advise against salvaging every single piece of gear and start vendoring/selling on the TP some. generally, i only salvage gear i need the materials from and sell the rest.

on my brand new character that i recently started (and is now… 44?), i’ve made several gold without any aid from my other characters.

I am truly wondering what is being done with the money as well. As I said, I havent even sold collectibles/crafting items (ALL have been banked) and use waypoints pretty extensively with zero issue whatsoever. I continue with slow wealth acquisition.

The only thing I can think is that they are doing something like buying new, overpriced equipment on the TP every single level along with dyes/minis/various other collectibles along with using waypoints every minute. As I said previously, I use them a lot, including to get to almost every DE announced in chat. I have zero doubt this is actually happening, but I am curious as to the cause. I am not doing anything special to get money, and yet this is completely a non-issue for me.

This is the personal story quest I had the most difficulty with!

The trick for me was to lure each of the trash mobs (destroyers) away from the queen and take them out first. Then, tackle the queen on her own and avoid the red circles (lava or something, I believe) to the greatest extent possible. She doesnt have many ranged attacks otherwise, so kiting seemed best. The ranged attacks she does have seemed pretty easy to avoid.

Also important to note is that even so much as going up the ramps while fighting the queen can cause her to de aggro and start regenerating her health. This can also happen if you stealth, as a thief, and stay stealthed for the full duration (I think I also had the +1 second stealth trait, fwiw). This was the most frustrating part for me. It seemed sporadic though, and not consistent. None of this seemed to be an issue with the destroyers.

Its good this quest was adjusted, I am very happy to hear that!

Deith.7596:

Personaly I don’t have problems with gold, I have it plenty waiting in bank depo and I couldn’t care less. Thing is, I know how to earn gold easy way without sweat, and new players won’t figure it out so easly, I got tons of experience in getting gold from other games, some of new players don’t have it and they can feel punished.

As I posted in a similar thread, I am not so sure this is even the case. I have zero issues with money at this point, and I use waypoints pretty extensively. I havent sold any crafting item, and only used karma vendors sparingly. I constantly bought equipment on the TP. I only recently (as in yesterday) started using the trading post to sell items to get a bit of extra money. Everything else has just been vendored. The only thing that hit my wallet hard was trait books, which took pretty much all of my money at the respective levels. It has been slow growth otherwise. I am obviously doing something different, but I have never put a thought into waypoint cost other than from reading threads about it.

To be honest, I dont quite understand this complaint. I do give it legitimacy nonetheless..

I have yet to run into this issue. I use waypoints quite liberally. The only time I look at cost is if its something that will take me a short time to run to, then Ill just walk.

The trait books pretty much cost me the amount I had total on the character, and seemed pretty perfectly planned. Those have been the only factor which caused negative impact on my wallet in a significant way.

I am not sure what I am doing differently! I only recently started using the trading post to sell items. (On a different note, this is made very easy by looking at the TP sell page before liquidating my current inventory. Some items are a good profit, the rest I just vendor). I havent sold ANY collectible item, they are all banked. I frequently bought random equipment on the TP. I only used karma to buy the underwater breathers, so everything else has been bought with money. I am constantly exploring, and using WP to get to events announced in chat. I have never, at any point, had to think about how to equalize the cost. Seems like I am playing a different game?

I am not posting to minimize the issue, I am quite curious about how others are experiencing it though.

edit: I also think the benefits of such a system will only be seen further down the line, if they are seen at all. The cost of waypoint usage will become increasingly minimal as wealth grows naturally with the age of the game. It also seems to be a percentage of possible reward within the level range, though I dont care enough to figure out if its consistent.