Guild Wars 2

Do not misjudge me, as ashamed as I am to admit it, I forgot that one line and didn’t find it after looking into it again. Oh, and by referring to risen knights, I simply meant that the dragons corruption may give the host attributes and capabilities far from the original. Following that logic, were the Destroyer Queen a corrupted being, the corruption could have caused it to lay eggs that hatch even trolls.

However, as I said, I had forgotten about that line of Forgal’s, which frankly ruins the basis of my whole argument. Indeed, I have been wrong.

Well, I phrased it so that it would be easier to connect to the context, and didn’t want to write an essay explaining the term.

And why do I want to know those things? For me, a fictional world is much more enjoyable if I get insight on the internal rules of the world. It’s that simple, really. And I’m not saying there’s much inconsistency to be found, I’d just like to find out the logics of Tyria.

And those are some good examples you mention, I’ll give you that. More of that sort of thing is what I’m after.

Sometimes in dungeon parts where you have to protect someone or something for a limited amount of time, you don’t really need to AoE the enemies down. Just tagging their aggro and kiting them can work better in some cases.

Give me legendary weapon effects for the weapon I primarily use. If I can’t see any kind of effects from an equipped legendary when carrying a flamethrower or another bundle, what’s the point in getting one?

I never feel the need to have a certain profession in the party when doing dungeons. Some party compositions may encounter some additional difficulties in some parts, but not so much that the dungeon couldn’t be completed.

Ah, I’m sorry if I didn’t make myself clear, I often think things in abstract concepts, so it’s sometimes difficult for me to explain what I mean to others. My argument was consistent with the previous posts, referring to the question about improving. This was relevant to whether or not applying chances that would replace some of the key elements of dungeons be improving dungeons, even if some or even majority would find the result better.

I don’t really see the incoherent design you are talking about, as dungeons are inherently a different kind of experience compared to the rest of PvE. Sure, there could be more to it, but I can honestly say that I enjoy them, and so do many others. And I can say that I would enjoy them far less if they were open to groups of any size and so on, as the instanced nature and party limitation presents the opportunity for the designers to fine tune the difficulty (though I admit, it’s not always a success) higher than in a similar setup but with a varying amount of players. The challenge added by this fine tuning is the major draw-in to dungeons for me.

And as a side note, Fractals do not count as dungeons for achievements, so technically, they aren’t grouped as dungeons ingame. As for my argument, I separated them to be able to use it as a valid example.

This is sliding into an argument on semantics, but I’ll have still one more swing…

Let’s define [dungeons] as the 8 dungeons at launch, as they are so in every sense, and at the time of launch there were no other areas that could have been included.

Now, let’s see if we can fit [fractals] into [dungeons]. They work similarly, they share many mechanisms, but they aren’t quite the same. Here are some of the key differences (while they may seem irrelevant, bear with me) -

Fractal tokens belong in a different rarity group than dungeon tokens

Fractals of the Mists consists of multiple small zones separated by loading screen, unlike dungeons

They hold no dungeon rank enemies

Now, we have established loosely that FotM is not like the rest of the dungeons. It does not belong into the group [dungeons], though it belongs to the group [[dungeons][FotM]], where dungeons also belong.

A little breather.

Now, I’m not denying what you are saying about FotM being an example of how the dungeons could be. I’m also not denying that the dungeons currently have problems, they do. And I am not saying that making the original dungeons more like FotM in some ways would not be good.

Onwards.

Now, to my key argument. If one were to take [dungeons], and give them properties from [FotM], while still retaining they key features from [dungeons], they would still be dungeons, but they might be improved. However, if one were to take all the properties from [FotM] or [open world PvE] or whatever one might, put them into [dungeons], and take out what was originally there or cover it up, that group would no longer be [dungeons], it would be [FotM] or [open world PvE]. And that would in no way be improving, it would be replacing.

And that’s the point of this whole essay.

Can you tell me a case where a man grows a dragonhead and wings? Corruption, corruption.

Could you cite me the line where Forgal states expressly that Primordus hasn’t been reported corrupting living beings? Also, nowhere in the dialogue is it implied that the Destroyer Queen could possibly have been created. The line stating “it might be a new kind of minion” would mean it’s a corrupted minion that has started breeding after being corrupted.

None of the minions of Zhaitan are created, yet there are numerous types of minions, some differ by the base of corruption, some by how extensive the corruption is, some by special tasks the kind of minion was created through corrupting a corpse. Just because it’s said to be possibly a new kind of minion doesn’t necessarily mean it was possibly created from lava.

Forgal’s notion on learning new tricks would simply refer to corrupting a creature that was pregnant at the time of corruption, or in the other case, corrupting a creature so that it can lay eggs (from which hatch full grown crabs and even trolls, yes).

Yeah, it does sound like they were simply joking, and you could’ve made it sure by simply asking. Instead, you left the party, leaving everyone hanging without an explanation given.

Fractals are not dungeons. They are similar to dungeons in how they work, but they have their key differences, and they weren’t a replacement for dungeons. So, they’re a different thing, that’s more popular than dungeons. That doesn’t make them an improvement of dungeons.

If you read attacks and implications from my posts, rest assured, no such thing is written, though such could be read. However, if you write down something into your post that includes an argument, I hold the right as a reader to evaluate it’s relevancy. Perhaps my way of pointing it out irks you?

Again, I do not know of your work experience. Do not expect me to know it after reading that you design levels for a living.

And about finding a strategy against a boss through trial and error. There I am going to have to say that we simply have different tastes. For me, it’s immensely gratifying to finally crack open a boss fight that has stopped my party for a long time. I understand that not everyone might like it, but to me, it’s a vital part of experiencing hard content.

Half apology? I apologized for misjudging you. However, I felt that my actions needed no such apology, as I could only accordingly to what I knew at the time.

Well I do apologize if I had a wrong impression of you, but I can’t help it if what you write gives out an image that contradicts what you are saying.

A group that respawns after being wiped and just runs back in without thinking is a stupid group. It’s not fun playing in a stupid group, that much I agree on.

Also, while it does hold weight that you design levels for a living, dungeons are a very specific type of levels, catering to a different group of players than most levels, as I’m sure you know better than I do. I’m sure you’re good at what you do for a living, but unless you design hardcore dungeons for multiplayer games, the relevancy of it is not so major as to rise your opinion above that of others on this topic.
If changing the dungeons to what you like changes them to something they never were, that’s not the same thing as improving them. If you like cats more than dogs, and so change your dog to a cat, that doesn’t mean the dog is improved.

I find that the Skritt hold the most potential of the races of Tyria. Just wait until they get a population big enough to realize to live somewhere where spiders won’t eat their babies!

I once bought 250 units of a food item from a vendor and then sold the stack in TP immediately for a total profit of one copper for each unit. It was silly, and my finger sure was sore after.

There are dynamic events in some dungeons, you clearly haven’t had much experience in them yet you seem to think yourself an expert when it comes to enjoying dungeons. And yes, I read the whole thing, and mostly everything can be fully experienced in the open world, I don’t see why you want to go to dungeons to find them.

“Constant respawning”, for an example, is nowadays impossible, which you would know if you had done dungeons lately. Waypoints can only be used when the whole party is out of combat.

Now, I’m not saying all of your ideas were bad. In fact, i quite liked a few of them. But, to me it seemed like you weren’t trying to improve on dungeons, you were trying to change dungeons in to what you like. Worlds apart. If you don’t like dungeons at all, then don’t play dungeons, it’d be just silly to turn them into something else altogether than what they fundamentally are, just because you or a few other casual players don’t like it.

I enjoy dungeons. Am I asking for the open world to be changed into instances like was in GW1 and for them to add a hard mode for it? I’m not. Do not ask for the dungeons to be changed into open world PvE.

Still, based on how in The hatchery (yes, I do like to refer to that storyline mission, I find it’s a key in-game encounter with the destroyers) the characters are not surprised at all of the chance that the Destroyer Queen would have been corrupted instead of created, but are surprised of it laying eggs I find it probable that it is normal for Primordus to corrupt minions instead of creating them. However, this could be just a case of the orders (and the player) having more information about the minions of Jormag, Kralkatorrik and Zhaitan, which are not created, and thinking Primordus would do the same. That would be an explanation to the dialogue of the mission to the fullest, don’t you think? But then again, Destroyers were encountered the first, 250 years ago, and by the Asura, no less. It would make sense for them to have studied their greatest enemy at the time, so the knowledge should exist of the origin of the destroyers. And yes, I’m aware of the destroyers spawning from lava pools in GW1, I did those missions, but I can see a possibility of a retcon there.

Electro.4173:

I remember reading something about collectible slots for dungeon items already being in the game code somewhere but not actually usable for some reason. Don’t know if thats true and they just haven’t gotten to actually enabling them or not, but it would definately help.

Indeed, when you right click any dungeon token (fractal relics included), you see a grayed out “Deposit Collectible” option.

I think the fact that the weapon appearance changes depending on the time of the day is one of the coolest things about the weapon set.

The character options are limited on male side, too, you’re hard pressed to create anything but pretty faces for human males.

If you mean the small plaza on the Kormir High Road side of Rurikton, those murals on the sides of the statue depict a Flame Legion Charr shaman, and a bunch of Ascalonian ghosts.

If new information overlaps existing old information, and the new information is true (as one would expect if it has already passed as information in a matter such as this, then the existing information that differs from the new must be false. Simple logic.

You seem to have misunderstood the idea – suspension of disbelief is not the same as believing, but putting aside the disbelief for the elements of a story so as to follow a story as if it was realistic. It was originally thought of when through learning, the medieval belief in supernatural had all but disappeared (save for some of the religious parts), while poetry and plays often depicted magical things.

So in essence, in order to not discredit the story wholly laughable, the disbelief for the impossible parts (such as John Rambo never running out of ammo) is “suspended”.

And my point wasn’t to start a philosophical discussion on the matter of enjoying stories (though it always is enjoyable), but to raise a question at how Anet presents the world of Tyria to us.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

snip

So, basically you want dungeons to be open world explorable zones? Because you just described one. There are a whole lot of them already, you don’t need to make dungeons the same too.

Bellyboomer.3048:

Skritt are dumb

You didn’t?

I once went back to Wayfarer Foothills and started a solo fight with a group event boss, Champion Wolfkeeper or something along those lines. After a while, I noticed my passive regeneration overpowered all damage done by the champion. I left my character on auto attack and did something else meanwhile.

Skritt are not dumb, not when you gather enough of them in one place. Consider what a skritt population the size of a modern major city would be able to achieve!

In GW1, we had the information the humans had at the time. In GW2, we have the information all the five races have and then some. Naturally, when new information is gained, some old information will be proven false. And really, humans didn’t know much of the world in GW1. With that, there wasn’t much that could have been done without any retcons.

mbh.8301:

Also; apart from your F1-4 suggestions, there’s no reason to make this a separate class instead of giving warriors brass knuckles. That’s ok though, because your suggestions for F1-4 are grossly overpowered – not that pvp is a consideration often taken into account in this game.

Better yet, using the elite skill Rampage while playing as a warrior.

Take note that back then Primordus was still asleep, and his minions were being controlled by the Great Destroyer, a champion of the said dragon. We don’t really know how Primordus thinks about anything, though he does seem to be hostile towards anything with a society and seems to only corrupt beasts (or to create mockeries of beasts, but I’m convinced that they are corrupted underground beasts.).

Now you’re contradicting your own claim. You said Isgarren would have called the gargoyles to defend the castle, now you’re saying he has more powerful elementals instead. Make up your mind.

We can’t go to the Ring of Fire currently.

I believe I should start this little essay by explaining these terms…

Suspension of disbelief, in short, refers to the act of forfeiting logical doubt so as to enjoy a story with impossible elements, such as magic or superpowers. This is only possible up to a certain point (of course, the exact point varies by person), so if the story includes an element too absurd, the whole suspension of disbelief may be lost.

Secondary Belief, instead, is the reader (or player, as the case may be) choosing to believe the story, because the world where it takes place has internal consistency of reality. What this means is that while in the real world, magic is logically not possible, it does not have to be so in a fantasy world, if the world is brought forwards so that it presents logical reasoning and definition for magic. This can be mystical or scientific, the important thing is that it’s consistent and doesn’t break the inner reality of the world.

Now, in what way does Anet want to present us their world? I’ve seen a lot of internal laws and logics in Tyria (for example, the whole business with the bloodstone), but I’d like to see more, get more details on say, how Asuran magitechnology works, how is magic channeled, and so forth. Details like these go a long way in establishing credibility for a fantasy world.

Last night during a Fractals run, I had a Jade Colossus die, leaving a lootable corpse. Well, a few moments later, one of my party members gets downed, right there in the middle of that lootable corpse, and as my inventory is full, and I really didn’t want to go through the trouble of throwing something out just to loot something I didn’t want, there was no way for me to revive that player. I’d be glad to have separate keybinds for looting and reviving.

The distance to the enemy also affects the aggro, the closer you are, the easier it is to grab.

On a related note, I had some 30 gravelings on me last night during a AC run (path 3), in a part where you needed to protect a pair of essence collectors until they got their fill. I basically aggroed every graveling I saw and pulled them off to the center of the room, so that the rest of the party could focus on destroying the burrows that spawned them and protecting the essence collectors. What is that if not tanking?

I didn’t mention everything, for a few reasons, one of them being the time it took to think of them in this state of sleep deficiency. As for your arguments, I can see what you mean, but the change in climate is undeniable when you walk around Kryta in GW2. The time window argument is valid, Jormag being the one behind it does seem more likely.

About the Ring of Fire, I was simply providing plausible explanations, as it was a clear difference with no confirmed cause. I do see Orr’s Rising being the more likely of the two explanations I presented, as such a mass upheaval would surely cause unrest in the crust of the earth, especially in such a volcanic hot spot as the Ring of Fire.

Lastly, I didn’t make this thread in attempt to explain anything, nor to ask a question – I made it to create discussion regarding the lore behind the geography of Tyria. Quite like what is happening between these posts.

Being mistaken about something is not the same thing as lying. If the quaggan tribe was utterly devastated by the krait, surely, a lorekeeper who’d lost his faith could believe his god to be dead. Also, I deny the possibility of Lyssa being dead, because I’m a Lyssa fanboi.

I’d like to see more of those regional big enemies from GW1, too, so, Hydras, Aurochs (yes, I know, they were a subtype of minotaurs, but I loved how they looked in EotN), and Behemoths from Nightfall.

Handslapping inquiries about how something works with an answer “magic” is never appropriate. It’s the same if you asked why, say, a nutrient helps you, you’d get the answer “chemicals”. It just doesn’t cover. Even for magic there’s more depth to it, and if not, there should be.

I’d like to make this thread an examination of the geographical changes in Tyria, their reasons, and theories of those who don’t currently have a reason to them. So, to start…

Frostgorge Sound
A large portion of far Shiverpeaks became an inland sea. This was caused by the Elder Dragon Jormag’s awakening.

Dragonbrand
From Blazeridge Mountains to Crystal Desert, a crystallized “brand” now pierces the Charr homelands and Ascalon. Caused by the Elder Dragon Kralkatorrik awakening and flying south.

Orr Peninsula rising
The formerly sunken Orr Peninsula has resurfaced. The Elder Dragon Zhaitan did this to make a base for himself.

Elon River coursing through the Crystal Desert
The former lifeline of the Elonian states, Elon River, now runs through the Crystal Desert. Caused by Palawa Joko kitten the river in 1135 AE, redirecting it to run through his own kingdom and starving the rest of Elona.

Kryta’s Climate Cooling Down
Kryta used to be a very warm land, with palm trees growing on every hill and every shadowed valley was a swamp. While the amount of swamps is still great, deciduous forests have appeared on Tyrian soil. People also were darker of skin, and wore less clothing (example 1, example 2). The most likely explanation would be that the rising of Orr has changed the sea currents coming from the Unending Ocean so that less warmth is carried over to Kryta. Note that Bloodtide Coast retains this pre-climate cooling nature.

Volcanic Activity Around the Ring of Fire Increased
250 years ago, there was a single active volcanic caldera visible from high above in the Ring of Fire islands, the Mouth of Abaddon. Now, three such calderas can be noticed on the map. Possibly caused by the Elder Dragon Primordus working underground, or a side effect caused by the tremors from the Elder Dragon Zhaitan rose Orr from the sea.

Now, that’s not all of them, of course, just a few to get started. I’ll be thinking up of more, and do not limit yourself, comment, think, study. Preferably in reverse order.

I’d prefer some kit elite, say, Gatling kit or something. Mortar doesn’t really count, as it’s an emplacement rather than a bundle.

In GW2, I can see more indications of Primordus corrupting minions than creating them. That the mentor NPCs say it migth be a new kind of minion doesn’t mean it couldn’t be corrupted – Zhaitan, for example, corrupts minions for multiple purposes, like how Risen Knights have wings.

Also, I don’t remember the trolls spawning from the eggs during Set to Blow, but from the ground, but it was a long time ago so I could remember that bit wrong.

My point wasn’t how the Destroyer was laying eggs – it was how the characters take it as obvious that the creature WAS corrupted, whether it was during being pregnant (kind of weird, by the way, considering it laid eggs…) or not.

I’ve had no major problems facing thieves going to stealth with my flamethrower – I just have to spread the flames for a few seconds and I’m doing more than they are. Even more so if they’re slowed down or immobilized, in those cases I can just laugh at their invisible burning faces.

A note to Konig, Primordus does corrupt, see the dialog for the personal story part “The Hatchery” (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Hatchery).

That aside, I can see the shadow of Primordus behind this.

The Flame Legion needs gods, and they want gods related to fire. They once worshiped the destroyers, but we know how that ended, right? However, I wouldn’t put it past them to take on the actual dragon as their target of worship.

The dredge live underground, deep underground. They dig, and they dig. Now, the moletariat is losing it’s yoke over the dredge, so they’re going to grasp every bit of power they can, who knows, maybe that power might just come from a dragon.

And Primordus… He’s flame underground. When destroyers invaded the depths in GW1, fissures appeared around the world. Have we seen fissures in Flame & Frost? Yes we have.

Now, I’m not saying that the dredge and FL would serve the elder dragon. Instead of being ordered by it, I’d see them riding on it’s name, their leaders fortifying their position by appearing to be siding with an all powerful dragon Primordus.

Heh, this topic reminds me of Mass Effect… that aside, for many races, it could just be that they look and sound so similar, that to someone not one of them wouldn’t be able to make the distinction.

Why prevent the feature from being used the way it was intended to be used for when the issue could be resolved in other ways? Surely, when things such as achievements are account based, it would be possible the change the event chests to only spawn once per account, instead of once per account in that specific instance. I for one use the guesting as a way of playing with friends on different servers, and would hate to see it gone because of something as silly as this.

I’ve said this before, I’ve never had more fun making builds than I had in GW1. Partly, it was the sheer depth of the huge skill pool, partly the fact that it didn’t cost me a thing to change my build around, so I could experiment all I wanted. This is something I miss from GW2, and at least the latter part would be possible to change for better.

Indeed, no profession is “evil”, while a few can be considered questionable. And I’d wager most thieves in RPG groups are chaotic good by their alignment…

Well, if you want me to give out a name that fit perfectly, give me more time. It’s not like I keep potential profession names in a little handbook around.

Incorrect, overflow servers are not tied to a single server, they are entirely separate from the primary servers.

I made a suggestion a while back that not many noticed, suggesting that legendary weapon special effects such as auras and footstep effects would carry over to carried bundles, such as the flamethrower. That would solve your problem too at least partially, with only a small, presumably easy, change, am I wrong?