Having a much needed feature that WoW happens to use will not make GW2 a WoW clone. Whether or not this mode will be competitive is for ANet to decide, though.
Yeah this game definitely needs a lot of work. I’d need at least ten different topics to address the issues that I alone could point out.
IMO, they need to tie in the reward system with how the intend players to play the game and not, for whatever reason, reward mooks running around mindlessly with GC builds.
Hello again GW2 pvpers. This’ll be another long, but exciting topic on how ANet can improve sPvP outside of balance. This is a subject I haven’t seen anywhere on the sPvP forum but I think that it’s incredibly important for maintaining a healthy playerbase.
To start off I’ll define an important key term.
Habituality
You can probably get the definition off of the this word through google, but the context important so I’ll define it myself anyway. Habituality is the state where a person is controlled by habits. In the context is of MMOs its the state at which a person is willing to keep coming back and playing a certain way given reward mechanics. The rate at which they come back and the time increment being very important factors. Good examples of this are WoW and those awful (but effective) strategy browser games (Warning: I don’t recommend getting invested in these browser games; they will use every trick in the book to hook you and get you to pay).
Habituality has often been used for nefarious purposes in free to play videogames, but that doesn’t mean that mental tricks done through reward systems are inherently evil. In fact, I think that if done right it can greatly benefit the abysmal state of sPvP.
The Problem With Rewards in GW2 sPvP
One of the many suggestions in the sPvP forums is to add reward incentives in order to get players into sPvP again. I, however, posit that the necessary rewards are already there. They’re just implemented in a haphazard mix of pure grind and lottery.
The freedom for players to gain credit whenever they want might sound like a good thing, but players are humans. Without the correct checks and restrictions, they will resort to methods that provide quickest and most efficient path to their rewards. If this means doing things that are not necessarily fun for them or other players, they will do it. Without proper pacing they will blaze through content, get burnt out and lose reason for player.
The inclusion of lottery boxes as a reward system only exacerbates the problem. Without set goals due to implementation of lottery boxes, players will not know how pace themselves. When and if they do receive their desired rewards from these boxes, they will either be satisfied or frustrated they didn’t get the item earlier rather than simply being satisfied they earned the items if they have the option of purchasing it straight up.
The results of careless implementation of rewards has been apparent in the farming meta of hotjoin. I don’t think I need to explain the situation there, because if I do, this topic will quickly turn into a rant.
Solution! Get ‘em while they’re hot!
Get rid of glory farming. Gonezo. Piff! Pretend it never existed in the first place, because it was a terrible system. Who created such a system anyway? I’m sure their mother would be ashamed of them. Pure farming without proper pacing or constant addition of rewards leads to burnout. Furthermore, the rewards lie in players playing for the wrong reasons and in the absolute worse manner possible for a competitive team based eSport. That not only leads to burnout, but it leads to burnout done through a system that wasn’t engaging or enjoyable for the players involved.
Replace Glory farming with something more involved and risky. An MMR system for example, would not only force players to not farm, but it would encourage them to play in a manner conducive to their team’s success.
To make up for the removal of glory farming and promote healthy player habituality, figure out the optimal time increment players play the game before getting bored and then use that to work on controlled rewards to get players to come back and to also play in a manner more healthy to the game. Dailies are a perfect example and they’re already in the game, although I think they could use a bit more depth to be more than a simple workaround to a flawed tournament system.
Also, get rid of lottery box vendors. This game’s demographic isn’t teenage Maplestory players, so it should not be expected to act as such. Instead, tie lottery boxes to dailies. These boxes are only frustrating if players have to invest in them, but if they’re an infrequent bonus they’re all the better.
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Reading comprehension gets you far in life.
Yeah it works like that for yourself currently. It would make sense for allies and opponents to see it as well IMO.
I don’t think number clutter would be much of an issue in PvP though because it’s only 5v5 or 8v8 and a lot of the time your entire team isn’t in the same area.
I’m worried that, with too many effects, it’ll obscure or distract from crucial wind up animations. Cramming many different color effects onto a character is may already be pushing it for some as well.
I think ANet should allow characters in the Mists to swap between professions on their hero screen, and save settings profession settings via loadouts for quick access. Profession choice in PvE will be locked and unaffected by this, of course. Sounds crazy, I know, but here’s why it’ll be a good thing for all players.
1) Instead of having to make a new character to try out a profession, players will be able to access a different one instantly. For new players this cuts down on the time they need to spend in character creation, i.e. it removes a systemic gate for these players.
2) Players will be less attached to a particular profession if their one character has access to all of them. This is extremely important for new players as they’ll be more likely to try new professions upon failure if the option to do so is presented to them on their hero screen. In this case, convenience is conducive to learning.
3) Profession swapping will make grouping much easier and more convenient. No Mesmer in your group? Of course there’s one, just have some swap to it!
4) Players who want to use a specific gender/race/profession combo will still be able to via alts. No downside for them.
5) It’s easier for a player to become recognized by sticking to one display name. Naming many characters similar names for the sake of being recognized can get messy real quick.
6) ANet can sell extra Loadouts for profit.
Other wacky ideas for implementation
1) Earn a certain number of loadouts in PvP. This will serve as a sort of progression for players.
2) Reward loadouts in PvE to lure PvE playes into HotM to try it out.
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I love thieves that think they’re safe in shadow refuge.
Comparing a MMO game to some japanese fighter game is just lol… I hope you know that many of those people have serious creativity problems.
They’re completely different, and Anet did want to get everyone on the same level. Meaning: if one player is good and can protect himself against burst all day long, but other player isn’t, it would lead to unfair advantage.
Also: bursts would become useless after a while as everyone would learn to play, and it would just be bunkers all the way.
Creativity has little to do with logical intuitiveness. I’m using Street Fighter as an example because how masterfully it employs necessary conventions in an action game. You’ll actually find many of the conventions I pointed out used many other games, and some even exist in sports like boxing, MMA, etc.
@Virgil
I actually think certain MMO features are holding GW2’s PvP back from what it could be. I’m not entirely sure why they didn’t do so in the first place, but ANet needs to design PvP for PvP. There are so many mechanics and traits from PvE that carry over that are either useless or actually detract from the experience as a whole.
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Tales of Capricorn: Revenge of the Ranger
Their time has come.
We’ll be seeing more bunker eles. A comp of 6 X/D bunker eles, 2 on each point will have little fear of being zerged since they can stall but disengage whenever they want to :X
But yeah, this won’t happen unless they make larger maps with objectives other than point capture.
Problem with using that video as an argument is that it assumes the developer’s intentions, philosophies and designs are perfect, while threads like these are arguing against such philosophies.
Also cleared Regeneration up. It probably makes more sense for other players to see what they’re healing as well rather than inventing a whole new mechanic.
Isn’t that how regeneration currently works for your own character? I would be nice to see regen numbers off of allies regardless of who applied it. You have to be careful of number clutter though.
The speed buffs do no stack.
Also, Windborne dagger is broken and will not give you a speed buff.
Wow that is lame..
None stack, only the highest applies.
And since you´re ele, just forget about those and roll with perma swiftness. Well unless you try to perma stealth the wvw JP.What, what’s the point of so many speed buffs when you can’t even stack them???
How do you perma swift by the way?
Elemental Attunement to air
Zephyr’s Boon
Glyph of Elemental Harmony
Staff Air 4 and Air 5 + Blast finisher
The speed buffs do no stack.
Also, Windborne dagger is broken and will not give you a speed buff.
I like the part where he waited for the level 80 heavy armor class to res the leveled clothie so he could gank the clothie again.
Not recommended for PvP as you’re basically free points without cantrips to make up for your glassy build.
Every profession or ability you design in an MMO doesn’t only have to be fun for the user, it also has to be “fun” to play against.
The Thief is obviously not fun to play against, regardless of actual power.
balance and design cant be based on personal opinions.
Personal opinion or popular opinion?
@Dee Jay
It’s definitely a tall order, but for ANet to reach their goal of creating an eSport they’ve already got to set their own standards high. And it doesn’t need the combat depth of a fighting game; It just needs to be mindful of its own combat type especially if it’s for sake of new players. Retaining players comes with depth of team strategy, and that already exists to a degree in high level pvp.
@Angriff
Agreed. If they toned down burst and bunker I think 1v1 and 2v2 would end up being more well-paced and be more reliant on quick reactionary strategies rather and a bit less on reflex. In larger fights burst can still exists through coordination between multiple members.
@Esrever
I wasn’t going to bring it up in this topic, but not because of their hand in burst combos. The issue with them, I think, is that the current ease of access to activation of locking abilities, such as immobilize, stun, blowouts, etc, work against combat type. In action games you have a greater sense of control of your character, so when you lose that control at it should feel as though it’s your fault for it happening in the first place rather than it being your fault for not cleansing it after the fact.
I think a way they could redesign those skills is by giving them a lesser effect, but allow them to punish certain actions with their full effect. For instance current abilities that have stun effect will only daze inactive enemies, but will stun when they interrupt an channel. Immobilize skills will only cripple enemies standing still, but immobilize enemies that run. That way these skills are slightly harder to use to lock players, but when these players are locked it’s clear to them that it’s their fault that it happens. Furthermore, by having to use these skills more tactically, effective use of these abilities will clearly divide players of different skill levels. They can counterbalance the decrease in effectiveness of these skills by reducing the amount of cleanses and stunbreakers available etc.
Anyway, I’m getting off topic.
I think the current retaliation is fine, it just need particle effects similar to aegis to be noticeable, and possibly more opaque coloring. Having muliple lines go through your character would be pretty messy.
Alright TwoBit, I have literally responded to every one of your 3 statements up there. I have given you the tools to make it so that your successful in this game when your coming up against bursts classes. Personally, I have no issues with burst. Doesn’t bug me, and I know how to counter it. You ask 99% of the other top players at their profession and they’re going to respond in the same manner. “Oh yah man, backstab thieves hurt… But this is how you counter it.”
Know your class, gain knowledge of others, and reap the rewards.
1) We are not talking about viability or balance in this topic.
2) We are talking about how GW2 is an action game and how burst in GW2 circumvent common restrictions and mechanics in action games and how it detracts from the feel and experiene.
3) Reading comprehension. Use it or lose it.
Again, you’re not getting it.
Okay how’s this for a better example. Consider Pro boxing. Why is punching the opponent in the groin not acceptable even though the move can be countered?
I think a better comparison would be bringing an unloaded gun to a fist fight.
You know the burst is there, he has the bullets in his pocket, and he’s about to load up. It’s now your job to slap the bullets out of his hands, or take proper cover.
Right but it still wouldn’t be a fist fight. Catch my drift?
Whoa, I was expecting a lot of your to disagree with me, but it seems like it’s not just me who feels this way about combat.
@DevilsGlare
This thread isn’t so much about balance or counters as it is about functionality and feel with respect to the game type. As it is, burst is like bringing a gun to a fist fight. Assuming you can consistently counter the gun, the whole ordeal wouldn’t feel like a fist fight, now would it? This is the tricky thing about designing combat because developers need to take in far more than simple weakness and counter into consideration. The number of complaints about burst only show how poorly it is currently implemented on a level other than simple balance and counterbalance.
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There’s been a trend in topic since release: “100b OP,” “Thief OP,” “Mesmer OP.” Replace 100b, Thief, Mesmer with “Burst” and you quite literally have the same topic. Well I’m here today to tell you that these topics do in fact have merit, but not because of the specific points they argue but they show a common underlying theme – they all show that burst is not working as it should.
The one mistake players make is saying that burst is bad mechanic. However certain games like Street Fighter can pull it of magnificently. Street Fighter does burst through high damage combos correctly because it understands the pacing of the genre. GW2 however, doesn’t seem to understand the pacing of its own battle system when it comes to burst. GW2 is an MMO with an action-oriented combat system, but it seems to treat certain mechanics, like burst, in the manner of a turn based game. It just doesn’t work that way and here’s why.
1) Burst in GW2 is often treated as an easy hit. A general rule in action games is that the easier it is for an attack to land, the weaker it should be. This is because easy hits are there to pressure opponents into creating openings for larger hits, not gib them if one manages to hit.
2) Burst is not projected well enough. In action games, attack telegraphing not only explains what kind of move is being used, but also the strength. If it’s strong it needs to look strong. An example of this is the thief’s BS stealth combo. It’s baffling, logically, for players to lose half or more their health in seconds of attacks they can barely see (with the first one being a hit they can’t see at all).
3) In action games, you should never allow players to initiate with huge amounts of burst. Burst should come from punishing openings caused by poor predictions, not by being able to land the first punch due to the player being mentally unprepared. This causes fights to be anticlimactic because of the lack of buildup and the initial punishment for not reacting in time makes the rest of the fight feel frustrating.
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have power over the market price of the staff rather than the ones controling the TP.
I don’t understand this. By making such a change, then the people who complete the JP will be the ones controlling the market. Whats the difference?
And I don’t agree with your ideas solely for the impact that this will have on the market.
Currently, players are making profit by flipping common ingredient items on the trading post and those who are actually playing PvE content feel as though they have little money-making power. This is especially true because crafting has no meaning other than levels at the moment. With this system players will feel as though their efforts are being rewarded and will consequently have control over the price of that effort.
How will this negatively impact the market?
Eruption>Ice Spike>Ice Field>Lightning surge then boom!
Eruption>Magnetic wave>icespike>frozen ground>lavafont>signet of earth>lafafont etc.
I Find lightning surge lacking in damage and cast time.
You can cancel out of it via attunement swap or dodgerolling and it’ll still go off. I find it to be great damage that way.
This will also be my attempt at addressing the issues of loot, and underused maps at the same time. I’m trying to ricochet one stone off of three birds, so bear with me.
So as we all know the three aforementioned problems have been bogging PVE down; crafting has become pointless for anything other than leveling convenience, loot is abysmal and is uninteresting due to lack of context behind them, and much of the overworld is unused.
My solution to these three problems is to add recipes for desirable items to the game but make key ingredients required to craft them Soulbound and spread throughout the entire map. These recipes should have context with the soulbound material used in crafting them and should come from challenging (not necessarily difficult) content that requires effort. Jump puzzles are a good example of content.
An example of this implementation would be an Artisan recipe for “Goemn’s Staff,” a very appealing staff. To craft it, the player would need the soulbound item “Goemn’s snapped cane” which the player has a small chance of obtaining from defeating Goemn in his jumping puzzle.
With this one recipe, a player with the appropriate Artisan rank would have incentive to finish the jump puzzle because the loot would have meaning, his craft discipline would have meaning and the Metrica province would have traffic from players wishing to craft this staff. Furthermore, because the crafting material is soulbound, the ones willing to finish the jump puzzle will have power over the market price of the staff rather than the ones controling the TP.
Eruption>Ice Spike>Ice Field>Lightning surge then boom!
Great strategy, but you you can honestly do this with any aoe burst. I’ve seen groups of thieves accomplishing similar feats with mass daggerstorm attacks.
I agree that the game’s combat balance is actually very good right now especially if you consider this game’s age, but as I previously state the overall balance of point capture revolves around a single strategy and that hurts it a great deal. In my opinion, they should have released GW2 with arena based combat, because of how engaging that one aspect of the game is, and then build something more thought-out than the current conquest mode later on. Forcing players into point capture from the start was a bad move.
And I agree that people should be more patient but ANet hyping up the game and then disappointing players could be a nail in the coffin for sPvP as an eSport. You had certain players who were looking for a competitive environment and were then let down. These are a very specific group who devote themselves to the game, and instead of being having the benefit of impressing and hooking these players the developers will have to deal with their disappointment and the overall reputation it entails for PvP. I suppose what I’m trying to say is that they’ve set themselves back and will now need to work even harder.
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@Narcarsis
Thanks. I actually have a lot more to say on the subject, and much of it helps to link together these subjects. The failure of sPvP is caused to a myriad of overlapping issues and to avoid writing an essay I boiled it down to these concepts. That, and I was really at my limit after three pages, especially since it’s the holidays.
@Kid Taylor
Heh, if you think this is Essay you may want to expand your scope outside of grade school.
None of this stuff is new or groundbreaking, but it’s important to contextualize it in such a way that it can promote more useful criticisms. And surely my post says more than “Bunker is too strong.”
Also even I though I didn’t link it directly pacing is just as important an issue as balance because it’s really what helps project strategic play.
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You have problems, I have suggestions!
If you’ve been reading through these forums, there are plenty of thread suggesting new gameplay modes and many of them have merit. But how this suggestion: make conquest mode engaging! Totally out of the ball park, I know, but it’s definitely not impossible. It simply requires unconventional design, and if the PvE leveling system is any indicator you’ll know the designers are more than capable of being unconventional.
For starters, make conquest less of a game of standing around on a single point. Maps such as Khylo and Legacy of Foefire attempt this but their secondary mechanics are simply broken down to a calculation. Instead of gimmicky secondary mechanics, I suggest promoting strategy in the core mechanics. For example making points tally after a set amount of time will reward players for running about and completing objectives but force confrontation and strategic division of team members before deadlines are met. The time between confrontations will act as important breaks. To add a sense of escalation, maps can be redesigned to be larger to promote the feeling of position as escalation, or they can have sections that open as the game progresses in order to use scenery as escalation.
Last, but not least of all, find ways to add in more meaningful strategies for players to use, and not just build counters. Those often end up as a balancing nightmare or simply become calculations. Having many strategies available will only extend the life of a videogame. Look at chess for example!
Final Words
I’m at my limit so I’ll stop here. I hope you all enjoy this wonderful gift of discussion and if you can, please contribute to the gift with a response below!
tl;dr copious amounts of high brow criticisms
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How Calculation and Strategy Relate to GW2: A conflict of a different scope
This is the part we were all waiting for. The part where I tear apart GW2’s combat because of how bad it is for deviating from the norm, how thieves and mesmers are the meta and in whilst writing my rant I will rend my own garments out of sheer frustration… Just kidding. In all honesty I think GW2’s combat is amazing in that it takes into account quick on-thespot calculations and execution strategies; it achieves where action RPGs often fail while remaining palatable to MMO players.
However, in PvP at least, it only achieves this on a base level, that is to say the game fails to deliver an engaging experience outside of execution of combat combat. The reason relates to, you guessed it, Player Calculation and Strategy. Or rather, Player Calculation vs Strategy.
So why the “vs”? In many multiplayer games there is a direct conflict between Calculation and Strategy. This is where balance is important, and I don’t mean individual class vs class balancing. When a strategy is too obviously (take note that I used obvious) powerful and then begins to dominate the game, it is, in the players mind, a more calculated move to adopt it into their own playstyle. When this happens to an extreme, the meta is a game of using one strategy, which by then is no longer a strategy but a calculation. Before long the game will be an execution of calculation rather rather. Even with slight variations here and there, if the goal will be calculated. You know a game is imbalanced when calculation overwhelms strategy.
I’m this is beginning to sound more relevant, because this is exactly what sPvP has boiled down to; a game with more calculation than strategy. We even have an odd split between two modes. For those of you who play Hotjoin, the meta at the moment is not winning but farming because it is the best course of action given the goals Hotjoin players, because “winning” is not really winning oddly enough. For tPvP it is bunkering as efficiently as possible because that strategy is all that is required of players to win. The common theme between each of these modes is that there is only one calculation needed to achieve an ultimate goal, and are therefore both horribly imbalanced.
Pacing: The difference between a story and a slog.
This part will, humorously enough, counterbalance the other. For a game to be a successful eSport, however, balance cannot be the only emphasis. Period. Most threads in the forums are about balance issues, and many of them are valid, however the one major issues preventing GW2 from becoming successful is the one sung by a silent majority; It’s boring and not engaging. You only see a few threads posting about how sPvP is boring because most of the ones bored no longer care to post. The problem isn’t just that they’ve already left, it’s that structure of conquest mode has not engaged their attention sufficiently for them to even know why it failed them. “What’s the point” as many of them would say.
The point of any competitive game is to win. To win in fighting games you need to deplete the enemy’s health. In RTS, you need to destroy all hostile structures (or the hostile base). In Guild the goal, at least in tournament play, is to gain as many points as possible. Each condition for victory sounds just as engaging if simply spelled out like that, but the human mind doesn’t work that way when these goals are in execution. We expect the events to play out like, you guessed it again, a dramatic arc. This is where sPvP fails and the way it does it isn’t pretty.
The issue with GW2 being “boring” becomes apparent when you plot a typical tPvP match the and the events form a relatively flat line. This is, I believe, because of the poor pacing. Conquest mode does not promote much needed breaks or dips in action, and the current metagame of simply outlasting help to kink out any bumps or dips in that line. Furthermore, this line has a zero slope. There’s no sense of escalation while playing or watching; there’s no sense that they are getting closer to a goal by simply staying in one spot and fighting. The point tally at the top is a slow trickle and it doesn’t at all provide that needed sense of escalation.
Strategy
Here’s where it gets a little tricky. Many players confuse calculations with strategies. A strategy does in fact involve calculations but to say that they are the same is fundamentally wrong. Take for example Build A and Build B. A counters B in every relevant situation so to pick A over B would be a calculated move. But what if there was a Build C that counters A but is in turn countered by B? It would still be a calculated move and not a strategic one because the pick after the first one is a guaranteed victory. If the pick was blind but then the pick would be completely random. Now what if A, B and C pick was blind, but the player still had enough information to make an educated guess? This is when you start seeing strategy.
For this topic, the definition strategy is the implementation of calculations in an environment of uncertainty, but not complete randomness to achieve a specific goal. This uncertainty factor can take many forms. In RTS games it is the fog of war that lets players hide their buildings. In Turn based game it is the RNG that causes characters to miss at times. In Dungeons and Dragons it is putting outcome on a set of Polyhedral die. In fighting games its waiting for an opponent to create an opening or forcing one yourself given the many possible moves available, in other words the uncertainty caused by quantity.
So why is uncertainty important? Well for one thing, without the uncertainty factor a strategy may as well be a calculation. But I think one important reason it is attractive is because it causes us to rethink our calculations and also appeals to the risk-taking nature that some of us might have. Another is that uncertainty provides a means for viewership because people are more likely to watch the same thing multiple times if there are different possible outcomes.
Pacing
Now before you read further on, google image search “dramatic arc.” This may seem like it’s coming out of nowhere but trust me, it’ll help. Now for those who aren’t familiar with the dramatic structure, it is a tool used to structure and analyze stories. Each story can have a different looking arcs but you’ll find that the most engaging and epic ones follow the same basic structure but the line itself is very wavy. This is because each individual event leading up to the climax also follows an arc in itself. Why this works I can’t say exactly but I believe dip after each event is there for the audience to reconsider the repercussion of that event and then prime them for the next.
By now you’re probably asking yourself why a writing tool a relevant to PvP. Well for starters, it will help to treat it as a tool for sequences events in an appealing manner rather than just simply a writing tool. Also it is relevant because each PvP match is not unlike a story in itself. There’s two (or more) sides that are enemies or rivals and they must engage on another in combat in order to achieve an ultimate goal. This all occurs with gameplay rather than storytelling. Games like Dota and Starcraft capitalize off of either deliberate or incidental dramatic structure. Even fighting games have a very quick and loose, but effective dramatic arc, and I’m not talking about the horrible flavor stories that they are made with.
Now to get point of this section, the pacing is the waviness of the dramatic arc. A videogame’s dramatic arc should be much more wavy than a typical story because of the sheer amount of action inputs required to achieve a goal. When many think of fighting as means of producing story they only focus on the rise of action because it’s the most obvious thing to do when thinking about combat. As with any story there is definitely a need for a rise in overall action, however, the small dips between action are just as important. That’s where pacing is accomplished. In video games this is the small break between clashes. For the player the break let them cool down and gives them a moment to rethink their strategies. For the viewers, especially ones unfamiliar with the game itself, it lets them pause and reconsider the consequences of the event and to also ask others, “what just happened?”
Hello and a happy Wintersday! Today I come bearing the gift of discussion. In this topic I will try and explain certain elements and concept that may pinpoint the core issues causing the not-so-great status of Guild Wars 2 sPvP. If all goes well, the ideas introduced in this topic may serve as a guide for other dissatisfied sPvPers to direct their criticisms into something more constructive. It’s the gift that will keep on giving!
To start off I will define the titular concepts of Player Calculation, Strategy and Pacing in the context of a video game. Some of you may already be familiar with these or similar terms and some of you may not. But I think that on some deep level we’re all able to feel their effects, so it’s important to put them into specific words so that we’re all on the same page.
Player Calculation
Player Calculation is one of the most rudimentary aspects of any game be it single player or multiplayer. It occurs when, given a problem (not to be confused with conflict or dilemma), a player will formulate the optimal build or course of action. It is the player knowing to jump over pits in a platformer, the combo strings in a fighting game, and the theorycrafting that produces optimal builds and party compositions for raids in an MMO. This occurs both in and out of the game, but the majority should occur outside in the forums, guides, what have you because that’s where people most easily communicate their calculations. It is really this aspect that makes RPGs so engaging for gamers because those games encourage players to formulate these calculations.
One defining aspect to remember about Player Calculation is that there is an aspect of certainty to calculations because the nature of a calculation is to examine a problem in a vacuum. For example, in earlier Mario games the best course of action for a player is to move right and avoid death. For GW2 there different“best” build for any class because it optimizes what their individual strengths in different situations. Understanding this will be crucial for this topic because it is this feature that will most differentiate Calculations from Strategies.
Hmm…I see. What would that accomplsih exactly, other than making bunker builds even more powerful relative to dps builds?
Bunkers are only OP due to the game type and its implementation. By freeing up more points to be put into air or fire dps builds will be more accessible. Furthermore, eles would give up team support by putting more points into damage traits.
You do know that Elemental Attunement already gives boons to allies right?
Pretty much. But the problem right now is that players are shooting themselves in the foot for pigeonholing themselves into choosing that one trait, and that’s the real problem here. I think one problem to solve it is for the devs to do what Aether suggested- to make the boon on attunement for the player baseline and sharing it with allies an arcane trait.
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IMHO make elemental attunement passive for the ele. Let the trait change it so it gives the boons upon switching to allies too. Then lower the switching cooldown by default to 11 seconds, maybe nerf some things, and then we wouldn’t have to spec 20+ points into arcane with every build.
I like this idea. It would cement concept of the trait line as a party boon support rather than crutch for the elementalists to remain competitve.
I dislike the idea of having to invest in individual elements for attunement reduction. It goes against our current design philosophy and not to mention it’ll take up already valuable trait slots. However, I agree the current bonus for the arcana trait line is more impacting than it should be.
I think one way they could alleviate this is to reduce attunement CD by 30% across the board and then reduce the cooldown reduction from arcana points to 1% per point. That way, players won’t be as pressured into spending points in Arcana, but those investing fully into arcana will have the same cooldowns as before.
This would probably make us hilariously overpowered, but I think it’d be neat for us to be able to assign different weapons to each element.
On a serious note , I’d like to see a true melee option for Eles. Maybe sword or mace.
Boiling Water>Ice Wall>Detonate 3 stacks of might and pretty good aoe damag. Throw in tidal wave for fire aura if you have aura traits.
Murky Water>Ice Wall>Detonate>Tidal Wave 3 secs of group invis and 3 secs of self invis. Fun but not very practical out of combat since you can’t aim murky water without a target.
There’s more of course but I think these are the most useful or interesting ones.
(edited by TwoBit.5903)
How is any might stacking not broken then? Funny how nobody complained about Might stacking builds till Mesmer could get one.
Because context. Mesmers can burst insanely high with shatters using this trait, and they can do it very fast with macros.
how do you deal with range issue with D/D…..
Imho D/D is not the best weapon for www unless you want to hunt thieves or do small tasks in particular.
D/D is for pushing zergs, especially if you have aurashare and a coordinated party.
Staff is better for wearing down opponents at a range, i.e. it’s a perfect weapon for battles of attrition or keep defense.
D/D or S/D: PVT armor with clerics, valkyrie or knights jewels (slotted with valkyrie)
Staff: Valkyrie Shoulders/Gloes/Shoes + PVT Chest/Helm/Pants with zerker jewels if you plant on staying behind doors or roaming with groups or Knights jewels slotted with exquisite Ruby orbs if you plan on roaming with small groups. The fury you get from the arcane fury trait should make up for the hit you take in precision. Just be smart about your attunement swapping and your crit rate should be pretty high.
Alternatively, you can go full carrion gear and do well with both sets. It really depends on your playstyle.
(edited by TwoBit.5903)
I’m using four of them along with Ether Renewal. The AoE might is quite nice even if it only lasts for 15 seconds.
These bugs has existed for quite some time, and we’re not sure when ANet will get around to fixing them.
Even if it was working, the most economical method for reviving allies at the moment is F + Mist Form :P.
Also, staff is just fine for leveling. The amount of self-combos you can pull is highest on staff…
And that’s the thing I was talking about, it’s not true since the EA nerf. Staff now has only one and only blast finisher for itself (not counting utilities and traits), while other sets have multiple of these. And that is one of those issues which made staff quite lackluster compared to other sets while levelling. Of course, it’s still good while doing DEs etc, where the number of AOEs and the range is helpful at marking mobs, but thet’s maybe the only advantage the Staff has now…
Staff trades off finishers for 2 more field types. Ice field in itself is very good in itself and with blast finishers from EA, Eruption and Arcane Wave you can stack on some serious aura uptime. The static field can be devastating in PvP and WvW if your party members have access to leap finishers for dazing strikes. In PvE you can use it with a thief to eat away at a boss’ defiant buff. Compared to S/D or D/D it requires much more input for similar output though so that might be why it’s not our favored weapon set at the moment. Also given that it’s our archetypal weapon set, those starting out as an ele will likely go for a staff and therefore be more than frustrated at the skill floor required in using it.
shhh quiet or it’ll bee fixed :p
Just in case they do read this, the guardian’s shield bubble can be used to the same effect…
If we’re going down, I’m making sure we’re taking guardians down with us :P
Even if it isn’t working as intended, it’s fairly easy to counter.