It is not that bad. Having both a ranged and a melee weapon set is usually the best, but even full melee is somewhat playable, at least in WvW. Full ranged is definitely not the only option.
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Retaliation dmg does not count as an attack (unlike true reflection). The dmg goes through everything afaik (it definitely ignores toughness and other dmg reductions and it can’t trigger retal dmg itself).
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Ranger has pretty bad stab access (60s cd, 1s casttime + 2s in CA on a skill that roots the player).
And rev doesn’t only has evades, blocks, blinds, low cd stunbreaks, ports and glint heal, it also has better dmg output than any other class.
Don’t underestimate the power of drakes when going for a remorseless/opening strike build. Their tailswipe attack, pre-boosted with attack of opportunity from hilt bash hits incredibly hard if you manage to land their attack – help them with that by cc your opponent.
While it is true that tailswipe can hit very hard, it is a lot less reliable than tiger’s F2, which has less cd and higher range, is better controllable, grants fury for guaranteed OS and the dmg is only slightly lower. The only real advantages drakes got are better survivability and some aoe dmg.
Can someone explain what a “remorseless” build is?
It is a build with the “Remorseless”-Trait, usually combined with Moment of Clarity and GS, which allows some nice burst combos.
Every single heal “tick” will charge AF for a set amout. It doesn’t matter how much hp you are healing, as long you or an ally is getting some actual healing (“healing” at full hp doesn’t work). So yes, dolyak rune still works. Same with Signet of the Wild or healing buff food (in WvW/PvE).
It is similar with dmg. Every single hit will charge AF for a small amount, regardless of how much dmg you are actually dealing.
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Nah, you are overcapping boon duration (97% without concentration sigil – the 20% from nature magic are not shown in the build editor). Imo it is also way too tanky unless bunkering/trolling is all you want to do with this kind of build.
I know, what you meant and it doesn’t make sense. You can not block power dmg that got already applied, why should it be different with conditions?
Power builds use marauder or paladin, the latter gives more defensive stats than any condi amulet. And some condi builds use wanderer amulet, which gives exactly as much defensive stats as marauder (toughness instead of vitality, but the latter is better in most cases anyways).
Well also conditions will still tick while people are blocking, when direct damage will just be completely blocked.
Just like others, I think conditions can be played too safely thanks to amulets granting defensive stats. So for many professions, there is high reward for very few risk.
You can block conditions just as well as you can block power dmg. You just have to block the application of the dmg, not after you got hit. And at least in PvP, condi builds don’t have more defensive stats than power builds.
Yes, i just use shouts for swiftness.
For runes there are a lot of different options. If you have issues against condi builds, lyssa or soldier rune (with shouts) can help. If you need more healing, defender rune is still very strong. Or dolyak if you need faster CA charging. Or just a rune that gives you more dmg + some defensive stats or utility like pack, surging, daredevil, scrapper, vampirism, wurm or rage – just to name some of the better ones. And of course durability rune is never bad, even if you don’t need the boon duration.
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Smokescale and tiger are the best pets for remorseless builds.
I don’t recommend wanderer gear, because this kind of builds doesn’t benefit that much from boon duration, especially when you take WS. I’d rather take some crusader/valk/cav/soldier pieces for additional defensive stats and more dmg than wanderer.
You also might want to consider BM over WS for traited shouts/better CA access/perma swiftness (personally i can’t stand roaming without running speed increase), GS trait, stronger pets (that will be an important part of your dmg anyways), additional cc or quickness. LB instead of staff can work pretty well too, but it is up to you if you prefer the mobility/healing or more dmg/cc.
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EB is not a pet buffing trait though, it is actually a pet harming trait. And as such it doesn’t make much sense in BM (this trait doesn’t make much sense at all, but whatever …).
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The trait wouldn’t be an issue without the ridiculous amount of boon duration you can get, especially in WvW. The game is simply not balanced arround +100% boon duration.
Druid can heal a lot more than just 573 hp/s with 0 healing power. Even with the 3 skills you have mentioned -and druid has more than those 3.
There is no connection between those two things. “Cheesy” usually refers to the build, “good” or “skilled” refers to the player’s ability. So of course good players can play “cheesy” builds.
What is “skillful”? Having to press a lot of buttons? Requiring fast reactions? Exact timing? Lots of thinking? Positioning?
It is hard to tell, what builds are more “skillful”, because different people might have different opinions on what skillful play even means.
The only thing, that is pretty obvious: The stronger a build is in a given situation, the easier it is to play it successfully. And this is completely independent from condi or power.
Because no balance patch without a nerf to core ranger …
At least i can keep my heal skill in WvW.
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As long the “outnumbered buff” is map wide, it shouldn’t increase stats or something like this. Why should the enemy I’m fighting 1vs1 get better stats than me? Just because my server has the bigger zerg somewhere else? I prefer a useless buff over one, that can add even more imbalance.
And i don’t really get the hate towards zergs. If you don’t enjoy zerging, just don’t do it. There is always something else to do.
Most condi clears are instant or passive. Only necro can struggle, all other classes have access to on demand condi remove. And i would definitely like to see the condi build, that can apply 10k+ dmg in 1 second.
Definitely keep skirmishing in a condi build, especially with double axes. Trait for bleeds on crit + increased bleed dmg, because bleeding will be your main dmg source with the weapons you mentioned. This also means, you should use offensive condi/hybrid gear with precision and power, to make some use of the decent physical dmg of offhand axe. Viper is the best dps condi gear, but sinister or rampager can work too as easier to get alternatives.
As utilities i would take traps and eventually sharpening stone. As traitlines I’d recommend SK + WS and either BM or Druid. NM does not much for a condi build.
Necros tend to complain too much while citing what other profession have but always omitting what must be invested by those profession to gain anything
Some builds invest into certain things and it results in an overall useful build. Sometimes you can invest into certain things and the result is trash. For necro the latter is true more often than not.
A necro who invests into a port is stuck with the worst port in the game, that don’t do anything most of the time, because you can’t cast it or the worm got killed or you can’t/don’t want to port to the worms location, when you need it. (I don’t think reaper needs more mobility though). A necro who invests into huge dmg numbers is stuck with an absolutely terrible build that does nothing against halfways competent players (if viable dmg was just about numbers, dps ele would be top tier, not only in PvE). A necro who invests into “sustain”/defensive traitlines has barely any dmg, barely any support and is just a meatshield that takes a few seconds longer to kill than usual necro builds.
The problem of necro is, that its main defense aka shroud doesn’t scale with dmg taken, nor benefits it from all the aoe healing that is flying arround – and both things have increased for most classes.
That being said, i’d rather see other classes nerfed than reaper buffed. Having a clear weakness is not bad. The lack of is (and ideally a weakness is build dependent, not class specific).
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protection affect condi dmg.
Don’t buff protection. It is already a very powerful boon and buffing it would just buff protection heavy builds, that definitely don’t need to be any stronger. If you want a boon that works vs condis like protection, nerf resistance to only give 33% condi dmg reduction instead of 100% and then increase access to this boon.
Or just nerf protection access across the board which would be an indirect buff to power builds.
The amount of damage-mitigation effects in the game right now disproportionately favor tankier builds and condition specs, however. A lot of strong condition classes at the moment (mes/thief/necro) that don’t need to crit run tons of boon hate (since those are already in the meta, anyways), and every condition build applies conditions way faster than cleanses can be applied for the most part. The lone exceptions being perhaps bunker druid and SA/DrD thief.
Condi mes usually doesn’t run any boon hate, condi thief only has Bountiful Theft (often on higher cd than in power builds). Condi necro has decent boon hate, but relies on allies to be really strong.
And yes, the current meta favours tanky builds, but this doesn’t mean conditions are automatically favoured (even though condi builds are typically tankier – statwise). You named only 3 strong condi classes, what about the other 6? Maybe there are more things that play a role other than tanky (dire) stats.
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The pets are ranger’s class mechanic and as such they are mandatory. A ranger can’t work properly without a pet. Just like a necro can’t work without shroud, a mesmer can’t work without clones and so on. You can’t deny other classes their access to class mechanics, so you shouldn’t be able to (easily) do this with ranger. And pet swap is the only way to save pets from death (and sometimes that’s not even possible with swap).
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The best thing that could happen to WvW is that they use the same templates used in pvp. So, no food, no special stats.
If you want wvw balanced for roaming and gvg that is the only way it will work.
This would not increase balance, it would just decrease build diversity massivley, like in PvP. Probably one of the worst suggestions for WvW.
Maybe because it would make GftE redundant (not that anybody would use this trait after the nerf, but still …)
Ranger has plenty of access to projectile finisher, so you can still use the field to blind your enemy.
Mobility nerfs will hurt solo/small scale roaming the most. Why should ppl be forced to run in blobs (and hope, its your server which has the biggest one) to not get steamrolled all the time by superior numbers?
Most power builds don’t run full soldier, because there is much better gear available.
And why does it matter, if its a druid or dh or not? I thought, no power build is viable?
Condi builds benefit less from going full glass, so usually zerk > sinister/viper. Many (not all) condi builds need more defensive stats than power builds to be somewhat viable, because they lack (burst) dmg, and/or defensive stats and traits compared to power builds.
And i already played a full soldier ranger and while it wasn’t optimal of course, it wasn’t completely trash either. Kinda compareable to dire ranger.
And regarding blocks, you don’t block condition ticks, you block condition application, which means, the whole dmg of the blocked condi attack will be negated. It is exactly the same as blocking a power attack.
Btw, only 2 (mesmer/necro) and 1/2 (thief) out of 9 classes are better going condi, the others are superior with power builds in most cases.
In addition to what saerni said, i want to mention that Endure Pain is not an invuln. It is an immunity to direct dmg (same for ranger’s Signet of Stone). That’s the reason, why it doesn’t do anything against condis (and CC and life steal dmg).
What did i said wrong?
Repeating wrong arguments over and over again, doesn’t make them right …
I think healing is fine and so is damage.
The amount of dodges however, is not fine. That also goes for other classes like rev though. Staff3 as well as s/d evades could need a cool down increase, just increase the damage on s/d evades accordingly, so that the effect remains the same outside of the evade.
S/d alone provides more than twice the amount of dodges, that basic endurance regen does and druid also has 12/15 (realistically 12 out of 16-17 though) seconds vigor on top of that.
Yes, please more core ranger nerfs for the sake of balancing druid …
Another thing about build diversity, due to the fact that conditions are as prevalent as they are in roaming, it forces builds to adapt and play heavy cleanses and so forth, this isn’t necessarily a bad thing but it is a negative factor on diversity. However, in an ideal world no class would be countering any other, but alas, I digress.
Players are forced to run “power counters” just as much, if not even more and pretty much everybody does it without thinking about it.
How do u explain ranger with bow, hitting SoA, piecing damage getting absorved but im getting the conditions? do sigils conditions bypasses domes?
Ex:; sigils like fragility that are on hit.
Does pet piercing damage like twin darts bypasses SoA and SW SoA?And if u use Renewed focus condis aplied before will still tick, that is what im saying, sory if my english isnt explicit. (it really wasnt lol…)
Maybe the condis were coming from something else, not from the bow. To proc sigils he has to hit you and if he can’t hit you with his arrows, he won’t proc sigils on you. Piercing projectiles don’t go through projectile destruction, only unblockables do (ranger doesn’t has unblockable projectiles though).
And if you use your invuln after you got hit by condis it is the same as using it after you got hit by direct dmg – in both cases it won’t do anything about the dmg that got already applied.
I think that people are just unable to cope with the fact that a buid that doesn’t die instantly can still kill fast. You’re not supposed to be able to live through every situation you walk into, and you’re not supposed to be able to block or tank every hit. Yet your character can do exactly that providing you are not dumb enough to roll power build.
You are describing lots of power builds, just saying …
1.
The reason, why ranger with either lb and/or staff counters necro/reaper is, that it can just kite arround and attack from range and the necro can’t really do anything about it. Necros lack defenses and sustain to deal with the ranged pressure and cc a ranger can provide. Of course i’m assuming, the ranger is using some condi remove, either from the WS line or from druid. Common druid builds with druidic clarity and signet of renewal can facetank a condi necro (almost at least).
I don’t know if there are videos somewhere from a soldier ranger, i can just talk from my own experience. I used my lvl 80 boost on a ranger and was playing this char a bit in wvw with the gear i got from the boost – full soldier exotics. And had no issues against any necro, despite using core ranger with “bad” gear. Of course i wasn’t killing them very fast, especially if they had full shroud, but because they have weak healing, it doesn’t need that much dmg to kill, just time. Btw, full dire isn’t optimal for condi necro either, because it benefits a lot from at least some precision.
2. Ok, so a lot of different skills? I guess, but they can all be applied in a rather short combo, like mesmers with their clones, condi thieves with venoms, engineers with their dual pistols and wrench kit. I do my best to try dodging and blocking all of these things, but it’s hard. I’m sure most of you can sympathize. If you can’t tell, my main issue is with mesmers and thieves, and yes, partly because of stealth. So to give myself breathing room, I will be taking berserker stance.
Both types of builds have skills, that you should avoid – and that you can avoid for the most part if you would play perfectly – which ouf course nobody does. And against both types of builds you don’t have to avoid all dmg. How much you can tank and how much you have to avoid, depends mostly on your build. If you got lots of toughness, protection, passive procs that protect from direct dmg and so on, your build will be much more forgiving against power builds. If you take lots of condi remove, condi duration reduction and/or resistance, condi builds will have a hard time at killing you, even if you get hit by most of their attacks.
It is not surprising that your main issue are condi thieves and mesmers – because those are the strongest roaming condi builds and because you refuse(d) to adapt your build to counter them (which is true for many players that complain about condis).
3. I can’t say with certainty that a power ranger will beat a condition necromancer, druids certainly have the kitability but vanilla rangers, they only have their greatswords. This example sounds pretty situational, like is the necro trying to face tank the ranger as warriors oh so like to do? I dunno. Like I said it’s not impossible to beat condition builds, it just feels impossible against mesmers 1v1. Good ones? Forget it I’m out. Bye. Has gone offline
I already mentioned, why ranger – even core ranger with lb – counters necro. The necro has not much alternatives other than trying to facetank or hide somewhere behind a rock, in which case a stalemate is the best he can achive.
And yes, condi mesmer is one of the strongest builds in 1vs1. And as a warrior you have the tools to counter it, by adapting your build.
Hasn’t precision builds (all direct damage builds) been nerfed in the past?
Anet has killed tons of different builds on multiple occasions, but this doesn’t mean, they should continue to destroy build diversity even more.
4. Like I said in a previous post, no matter how tanky I am, I am like paper to conditions, it makes a stat completely irelevent, toughness, whereas no other stat is like that.
Tankyness is not only a matter of stats. Traits and skills are even more important when it comes to survivability (Just try to play your warrior without defense line and you will see how much your toughness alone will do for you even against power builds). And as a warrior you have pretty much the best defense against condis available, you just have to use it. And you won’t even have to give up your favoured “in your face” playstyle.
Personally i prefer to play a full melee core ranger build (GS + S/A). A build that is probably similar to your warrior – decent toughness and dmg, some condi remove, but still rather weak vs condi builds. But i simply accept, that this is a weakness of the build i have chosen and i have learned to deal with it. I have a very hard time at winning vs many condi builds, if they know, how to play – but i rarely die against them in 1vs1, because i know, what attacks to look out for and when to use my few cleanses. And if i really want to kill them, i can change my build and pew pew them to death.
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Condi thief – especially the d/d evade spam one – it is pretty much the last condi build i want to defend. But since you mentioned it …
There exist completely different condi thief builds, with different playstyles, strengths and weaknesses …
Most common are the d/d evade spam build and to a lesser extent the d/p trap build.
The first one relies pretty much on one single skill – Death Blossom – which applies 3 stacks of bleeds for quite a long duration and is an evade skill. Total dmg can be pretty high, 7k+, but it will take up to 20 seconds for the full dmg. It means you will take about 400 dmg per second. Almost all this dmg from a single hit can be outhealed by your healing signet. A single hit isn’t going to kill you (or any other player). Same for the second hit. Problem is, DB can be spammed pretty much non stop (with a few dodges in between), which allows this build to stack lots of bleeds while being invulnerable almost permanently. A few additional condis can be applied with steal and eventually Lotus-Training or a second weapon set, but DB remains the main dmg skill. Only weakness compared to power thief – it is worse at ganking due to less burst and lower mobility, which makes it a bit easier to run away. I definitely think, this build deserves some nerfs.
The second condi thief build i mentioned is the d/p trap thief, also known as “ghost” or “perma stealth” thief . Main dmg will come from a combination of needle trap, steal and caltrops. Non of those attacks apply direct dmg, which allows the build to stay in stealth permanently – pretty much the only defense this build got. With mentioned combo it can apply a lot of different conditions at once, but not very high stacks, unless you can’t get rid of the immob, which will force you to stay inside the bleed stacking caltrops. This build lacks constant pressure, so with a few cleanse and/or healing skills and some experience at avoiding traps it is quite easy to counter. The perma stealth thing is a bit stupid design imo, but overall i don’t consider this build op.
As you can see, condi thieves can’t really burst you with a single hit, regardless of the build. Even after multiple hits it will take some time until you would take letal dmg, even if you don’t try to defend yourself. And you should always have enough time to defend yourself with cleanses, heals, resistance or simply by running away. Killing them can be quite hard due to spamable defenses (stealth/evades), but this is a class/build specific issue and doesn’t has anything to do with condis in general.
Burn burst builds (guard/engie) are the only true bursty condition builds. They have to land multiple skills for their burst, and can be usually countered quite well, if you know what you are facing (and don’t run arround with zero cleanse).
And as somebody already mentioned – if you want to be able to facetank condition builds, you can do so as a warrior, if you invest into boon duration and resistance. Much more powerful than any toughness would be.
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Let’s say a full soldier kitted warrior, guardian, whatever. Let’s say he went up against a full dire necro, mesmer, etc. Who would win? Firstly, the person with soldiers has no precision nor ferocity, just power. Even with fury, the crit chance isn’t enough. So obviously the dire stats would win out. Ok, that was fairly obvious, right?
Lets say, a soldier lb ranger fights a dire necro. Who would win? The ranger, even though soldier is far from optimal for this kind of build. And if we compare zerk vs sinister/viper builds, the power variant would have the upper hand most of the time And if we compare zerk vs dire it might look different again. And in all cases it will be more a matter of the specific builds and not a general power vs condi thing.
Let me explain, from what I can tell, it takes one hit to apply a kitten ton of conditions from my experience. I’ve never played a condi build, not saying that’s because I’m trying to act noble or some kitten, but because I don’t enjoy it, simple.
“From your experience” which is zero, because you have never played a condition build, right? So please name all those condi skills, that apply " a kitten ton of conditions" with one hit. Most condi builds have to hit you a lot with different skills, to stack enough condis, that don’t a) get outhealed, b) don’t get cleansed immediately.
I’m not saying it’s impossible to beat a condition class with a direct damage class, I’m just saying it doesn’t seem like an even fight.
Yes, power ranger/druid vs condi necro is indeed not an even fight. And not in favour of the condi player. And the same is true for many other matchups. It is always a matter of specific builds, nothing else. Many condi builds suck and get countered by power builds and vice versa.
Just because there are a few op builds, doesn’t mean, you have to nerf tons of already bad builds too, but exactly this would happen with a general condi nerf, regardless of how this nerf would look like.
The heavy classes are meant to be just that, heavy, go in deep, be aggressive. To do that we need to be able to survive, and there’s not much you can do against unmitigatable damage.
The heavy classes are not meant to facetank everything. And condis are not unmitigatable. You can avoid them and you can cleanse them, if you fail to avoid the application. Of course both requires you to know which skills to avoid and when to cleanse, or with other words, you have to learn, how the different condi builds work and how to counter them.
PS: Why would a condition build, namely with Dire stats do less damage, ever, do less damage assuming he or she is running the proper weapons and utilities against the soldier stat person with the proper weapons and utilities? Because of a difference in condi clear? I don’t understand.
Condi clear can reduce the dmg that is dealt by condis massively. And sometimes the soldier user can have better ways to avoid the dire user’s dmg than the other way arround. Like in my necro vs ranger example.
Just a few things to add.
Condition still pass trough guardian domes, while the phisical range damage is aborved.
Invunerability condition still tick, while phisical damag eis negated.
Condition on reflected damage dont go back to source.
This is not true. Conditions are applied through attacks, just like direct dmg (with very few and barely relevant exceptions). If you negate those attacks, which is possible with exactly the same means as negating power based attacks – evade, block, invuln, blind, interrupt and so on – no conditions will be applied.
Guardian’s domes will prevent condis from projectile based attacks just like direct dmg. They won’t prevent any form of dmg from non-projectile attacks. If you use an invuln skill after getting hit by direct dmg it does as much as using it after getting hit by a condi attack – nothing. And if you reflect condi applying projectiles, those condis will applied to who ever gets hit by the reflected projectiles.
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Dmg condis have never been meta in zerg fights, even after the condi stacking changes (which was pre HoT and pre boon spam meta). Resistance is mostly used to combat soft cc – and because it is easier, if you can just ignore all condis, instead of having to cleanse them actively. And even if condis would become zerg meta for once, what would be wrong with it after almost 4 years of power meta?
Ranger could trait for piercing arrows even before the trait changes last June, it was just a different trait. And no, ranger doesn’t has better dps than other classes. Rapid Fire has a high total dmg, but you are ignoring that it is a) a 2 1/2 seconds long channel, which gives even players with slow reactions more than enough time to react and b) it is a projectile based attack, which can and will be easily countered in zergfights by projectile reflection/destruction if the opposing zerg is not completey trash.
CoR (just as one single example) has less than half the cooldown, less casttime, is not a projectile, hits up to 15 players (which will result in higher total dmg than RF) and hammer rev has additional non-projectile hard hitting aoe skills, projectile destruction, overall better dmg modifier and boon support.
It is fine to play ranger and having fun doing so, but that doesn’t make it as efficient as other classes in zerg fights. And no, i don’t think the class will get buffs, because there are other playstyles (roaming/small scale) and game modes, where ranger/druid shines.
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I still don’t consider those matchups as “bad”, because druid definitely has the tools to win or stalemate those fights, the ability to disengage is an “extra” but not automatically neccessary. It is just not a “guaranteed” win, like it is (almost) vs thief or necro.
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The only good DH, or the only DH, who was better than you?
I don’t see a DH killing a good druid. At best the DH can force a decap (generally druid is not the best at holding a point, because stealth and mobility are part of the druid’s defense). Imo rev is the only class with true kill potential against druid in 1vs1 (and it can still go either way, personally i can kill most revs, but those are not the best obviously). Some other classes like warrior or dh might be able to “win” by forcing the druid off point, but a good druid should be able to disengage/kite instead of just dieing. Overall it feels like i can take any 1vs1 as druid without being at a disadvantage, and if things go bad, because i f*** up or get outplayed, i can still run away and go somewhere else.
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The main reason, necros were taken, was boon corrupt, which allows their teammates to nuke the enemy. This mighty create the illusion, that necros on their own were “nuking” the enemy, but usually it is mostly dmg from other classes (like rev). Condi necro has decent sustained pressure, but lacks any kind of burst (unless it gets some huge transfer off).
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Necro doesn’t force any class out of the meta. It is actually one reason, why engi is played – necro needs it as a babysitter/res-bot to be viable. And yes, necro has decent cleave against downed – which is good, you shouldn’t be able to res everything.
Ranger doesn’t deal the same or even more (aoe) dmg than other backline classes – this is simply a fact, a matter of given numbers, stating otherwise is nothing but misinformation. In addition, most of a longbow ranger’s dmg can be completely nullified by projectile destruction/reflection, which is quite common in zerg fights. In the worst case you are killing your own allies.
It is exactly how Jim Hunter said – you can have fun with a ranger in zerg fighs and pick of some targets with a dps build or provide decent healing with a support build – but other classes are better for large scale fights, especially when it comes to dps roles.
Druids are one of the top roaming classes though, so saying, ranger isn’t meta in WvW is not entirely true.
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Matchmaking is bad, sometimes there are just too big skill differences between players in a match, which can lead to somebody winning 1vs2.
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If Server Week Victory Reward is Awsome, many ppl will join.
(Good) rewards for winning would just encourage bandwaggoning even more, because stacking on strong servers is the only way to ensure the win, since macthes are not fair and a single player has very little influence on the outcome of a match.
If matches were fun, then playing itself is rewarding enough. If playing is unfun and just done to farm rewards, ppl could just go to PvE and farm there. Players didn’t leave because of the lack of rewards – WvW is more rewarding in terms of wealth than ever before -they left because of the lack of fun. Rewards for winning, be it skirmishes or matches, are not a solution to any WvW issues and would probably make it even worse. Do NOT reward players simply for playing on a server with higher population/coverage than their opponents.
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It works fine for me. Haven’t noticed any bugs.
new elite not must to be stronger than HoT ones, must be only diferent. promoting a truly diferent game style for the class, making build diversity real and using one or another depending only of player game style and/or the current meta
This is exactly what anet told us about how HoT elite specs will be and they either lied or failed miserably and haven’t done anything to change it. There is no reason to assume, they will make it better with the next expansion.