What happened? HoT happened, druid happened, smokescale and bristleback happened (Aside from multiple buffs that happend over the course of the years – there were not only nerfs). Ranger has been part of the PvP meta since HoT release. Not completely dominating or being absolutely mandatory, but definitely meta. Druid made ranger usefull in teamfights, where they were useless before – which was imo the biggest issue for ranger in competitive PvP – while maintaining 1vs1/skirmishing capabilities.
If you want to know, why exactly some pro teams take druid – i can’t answer, because i’m not part of those teams. I just know, they take druid (and they won’t without reasons) and they did so for quite a while already.
Pro league winner team was using druid. I doubt they went to the finals with something they would consider an “inferior” comp …
Role wise i would compare it more with scrapper than ele. Unlike ele, druid is not a pure bunker/support spec, it more a bruiser type. Teams are usually using druid OR scrapper but druid AND ele. Of course it might lookt different without the class stacking rule, but for now, druid is definitely a viable choice even for pro teams.
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Druid is totally viable at all levels of PvP, from SoloQ to Pro League. Even if the class isn’t as mandatory as some others, i wouln’t call it “bad”.
Why would you want to buff Defense GM traits? Defense is already mandatory for every warrior build and all GM traits are very strong and have their use. Warrior definitely doesn’t need even more defense/sustain.
Um, I disagree actually. Condi warrior gets all of his condi damage needed from mace alone, berserker is picked not just for the extra damage, but extra spam on burst skills, quickness, fury, stability.
Power warrior gets all his dmg from his weapon skills either. Both kinds of builds can take exactly the same traits. (Defense/Discipline/Berserk – both condi and power builds can take Strengh instead of Disc for more dmg, but overall it is considered the weaker version). Both take defensive utitities. Both can take amulets with same amount of defensive stats (wanderer vs demolisher/marauder – yes, condi warrior can also take carrion or rabid – both offer less condi dmg than wanderer though).
You are right about Condi (hybrid) mesmer, which is still far from being a bunker …
Necro takes Curses over Blood magic, since Curses has extra condi removal, additional weakness application (which is good for defense and offense), extra boonstrip, more pressure, etc. Soul reaping is a good for a hybrid build and since going hybrid makes you twice as strong as sole power (more pressure, more survivability, since the traitlines you pick to survive also give you lots of split damage).
Necro always takes Soulreaping and Reaper, regardless of power or condi. Power necro would take Spite, condi necro takes Curses or Spite (Signet Build). Overall not that much of a difference.
For a reasonable dmg output condi engi has to invest more into offense than power scrapper, burn guard has to invest more into offense than power dh, same for condi ranger.
No viable build would only invest into offense, everyone needs some kind of defense. Just because power builds can invest into more dmg modifier than condi builds, doesn’t mean, they have to. Nobody plays PvE builds in PvP …
Power warrior would take the same traits as condi warrior , condi necro takes as much offensive traits as power necro would, similar for mesmer who takes illusion line for more condi application instead of going full defensive. Same is true for most condi builds, which have to invest into offensive traits for more condi application, because condis from weapons alone are usually not enough.
Warrior and Necro use pretty much the same amont of offensive and defensive traits for both condi and power. Most condi builds have to invest into offensive traits, skills and weapons for a reasonable dmg output, sometimes even more than power builds.
Imo the main reason, why power (burst) builds are less viable, are all those spamable and passive defenses, which counters burst and requires constant and easy to land dmg. Those meta condi builds are not very bursty, but the same is true for power builds like scrapper or druid, who doesn’t rely on burst either, or rev with easy to land skills on low cd like precision strike and weapon/legend swap procs. “Burst condi builds” like burn engi or burn guard are not viable for similar reasons.
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Nobody can perma invuln, block or evade (daredevil can be close to perma evade though). You can see, when those defensive mechanics are used and when they end.
Good luck at waiting for stealth to end against perma stealth SA thieves. PU mesmers might become an issue too. Scrapper not so much, at least you can see and destroy the stealth gyro. But scrapper don’t need the stealth to cap/hold points anyway.
This will only happen for players with very low MMR on the main account. I was mostly responding to the OP though, who – i assume – does not have low MMR, otherwise he wouldn’t have had an easy time in season 2.
So yes – the higher your MMR is, the easier it will be. The later you start – the easier it will be. Both is true. However, a “long history of previous games” does not necessarily result in low MMR – if you are good. A new account gives only a “MMR advantage” to players with below average MMR.
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1. The system matches players accoring to their MMR and division. Win ratio does not matter. (Of course high win ratio usually means high MMR and low win ratio usually low MMR, but there are more factors, which play a role, so 2 ppl with the same win ratio can have completely different MMR.)
2. The matches become easier, the later you start into the season/the lesser games you play in the season. Because most better players will already be in higher divisions and you will get much easier enemies. Total games played should not matter at all.
A new account, which starts mid season, will have an easy start, because most players left at the bottom will have below average MMR and therefore are easy opponents for an average team (eventually with an above average player). If you’d create a new account right at the start of the season and play a lot of games, it should be much harder than starting playing mid season on an (above average MMR) main account.
Ranged or not/projectile or not has absolutely nothing to do with condi or power. Most condi builds need to get close to apply the majority of their pressure. Many condi builds’ ranged attacks are projectile based. And so on … It is always class/build specific, not a general thing.
Edit: No build that need setup to land their dmg or has it hard to pull off the dmg is viable. Because there is too much spammable and passive defense in the game. So you need spammable dmg. Doesn’t really matter if it is power or condi.
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[…]
Now there is your proof. The only lower DPS class than ours is the mesmer, and that profession brings a lot of sustain with passive confusion, cleanses, the invis and clones.[…]
Did you even read the thread? Guess not …
I saw this ranger build comparison (quite interesting one, he doesn’t use optimal builds for solo dps though), but it says nothing about other classes’ dps. The qT test is the only one i know, which compares different classes (and it compares dps builds with support builds), that’s what i meant.
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Uhm, i don’t make up some random numbers. Of course I tried it out against the dps test golem. And I reached 13k dps against the small one (1 mil. hp) with this build, despite not having viper trinkets and using cheap food.
(with the known WS variant, which should be better vs multiple targets, because the vuln stacking from Remorseless is only single target, i got about 12k dps).
@ Zenith
So how much solo dps do you get on thief and warrior? Can’t be so hard to post those numbers …
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I know, it is not relevant for 99,9% of the game (basically only for soloing instanced content). But it is still interesting for me. Mostly out of curiosity. A bit because i’m sometimes trying to solo stuff (if i fail, it is because of my lack of knowledge/practise, not because i’m playing ranger).
Edit: Even those “selfish” 29-30k dps aren’t far away from classes like rev, guard, engi … It is not worth taking in an optimal setup, but the same is true even for thieves, because they are “only” 2nd best dps class.
And 7-8k might be the max for power ranger, but condi has significantly higher dps (11 – 13k solo dps, depending on build).
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@ Tragic
I know about the “scaling issue” and yes, it is an actual issue that should be adressed somehow. But this topic is about solo dps, so self-buffing capabilities are more relevant than scaling with other classes’ buffs.
And while even a selfish condi ranger won’t have better dps than most other classes in a full buff setting (and therefore isn’t meta), it isn’t far away from those (less than 10% – excluding ele and thief, which are outliers dps wise). And might be better than some in a solo setting.
@ Swagger
Those numbers might be meaningless, but can be still interesting, right? If not interesting for you, why are you even looking at this thread?
Btw, I’m doing totally fine in WvW and PvP, just reached legend (yes, i know – it is meaningless …) a few minutes ago, with druid of course. And it saw some use in pro league, so i guess it is good enough even at the highest tiers of competition. Still has absolutely nothing to do with this topic.
What has pvp and wvw meta to do with the topic of this thread? Nothing i guess …
And even at maths that ignores time used for dodge rolls and everything that would decrease your damage in real time combat – our DPS was bad. Without a doubt.
I wouldn’t dare people to bring you the numbers, because there are still people who do have them and they are not something you want to see at this moment.
Power ranger’s sustained dps is indeed not very high, i know. But is it really so much worse than most other classes (there is not only ele)? By much worse i mean about half of the dmg, like some here are claiming.
And then there is the condi build, which is imo quite decent (solo) dps wise. Better than ele? No. Better than some other classes? Maybe. I don’t know. But i would like to know. Because i’m a curious person and interested in this topic, even if it is not relevant for actual gameplay.
I’m pretty sure the weakness isn’t aoe, because it is applied by the pet and not by the skill directly. Haven’t tested it though. Aoe chill is still nice, however i think, aoe taunt or more might/quickness has more value in most situations.
Seriously, just show me some actual dps numbers that prove your point and i will shut up.
Shouldn’t be an issue for you, right?
Because i don’t have all classes/the the right gear for those.
QZ + SotP + SotW + LB5 + LB2 + Axe4 + Axe5 -> there is your burst.
@ everyone: Feel free to prove me wrong and provide some actual numbers of other classes’ solo dps/burst/whatever for a comparison. For now i only know about the test from qT, where they only used support focused druid builds with raid settings/full buffs.
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Clearly you haven’t tried other classes in pve then?
Ranger dps do not even come close to revs, eles, warriors in pve.
Not even by HALF.
Ranger solo dps suck so bad.
It is true, that i don’t play other classes, but are they really able to pull of 20k+ dps solo? Staff ele maybe against large hitboxes, but other classes? I doubt it.
(I can easily get 11-12k dps against the golem, without additional buffs/vuln. Highest was actually 13,1k with a different build, that only works solo against a stationary single target though. And i don’t even have optimal gear).
I would recommend sun spirit too for condi builds, but i would definitely take Protective Ward over the spirit trait. If the spirit gets attacked, it will still die fast, doesn’t really matter if it takes 1 or 2 autoattacks. And 1s vigor isn’t doing much either. Wanderer’s isn’t a very tanky amulet and you are not using SoS, which makes the build quite vulnerable to burst. PW can help a lot vs power.
And I’m not sure, if wanderer is the best amulet choice, because the precision is pretty much wasted and the additional condi duration is often useless because of cleanses.
Edit: Mh, maybe “on crit”-sigils like earth and torment would be worth taking over the duration sigils.
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I don’t think, ranger’s solo dps is too far from most other classes’ solo dps, because it can easily stack some might and vuln and because there are no buffs that the pets don’t benefit from.
make the game fun because as it is now, the game is simply not enjoyable to many people:
- matches are unfair and you can tell the winner 90% of the time before the match has even started
- skill/class design is awful and literally every meta build is unfun to play against because of passive dmg/cc, AI and too many spamable high damage and/or high defense skills and evades.
This!
More/better rewards would just turn PvP into even more grind. And as soon people got what they want, they would still leave. And many PvP players don’t even care about rewards (which are useless in PvP anyways).
That’s all ranger is good for, really. Healing and running away.
Druid is one of the strongest classes/builds in 1vs1 and small scale fights. Together with the mobility and stealth access this makes it excellent for roaming in WvW.
It is not that great for zergs, true, mainly because pets are useless there and because of the lack of strong aoe. But that doesn’t make it a weak class in general.
WARHORN
- Hunter’s Call: increased to 3 targets, same as the runes of the mad king. This skill steal up to 2 boons for each target affected. Because it’s a support weapon.
10k+ retaliation dmg inc. This would make the skill unusable against targets with retal. (I’ve already killed myself with Mad’s King rune because of this).
Hunter’s Call just needs lower CD and higher dmg and/or some utility (i like the idea of pulsing blind – and it would fit the skill thematically – birds pecking for the eyes).
GREATSWORD
- Hilt Bash: remove the cast, this skill takes more than 1\2 to apply the effect which makes it impossible to land unless the target is already immobilised. Normalise the daze/stun with SB to 2 seconds.
The problem with HB is the self root during the cast. Removing the root and fixing the decreased range when crippled or chilled should be enough to solve most issues with this skill. Increased stun/daze duration seems fair after MoC nerf.
STAFF
- Solar beam: apply 3 seconds burning if the target within 600 units.
- Astral Wisp: apply 1 second burning when passing thru enemies.
- Vine surge: changed to a ranged AoE 300 radius that cleanse conditions(chilled, crippled,immobilise) up to 5 allies, and apply Entangle up to 5 targets. Range 1200. Increase CD to 25 seconds.
- Sublime Conversion. Decrease cd to 20 seconds. Increase wall duration to 10 seconds. Increase coefficient for the healing by projectile to 0.5 by projectile. Fixed the angle of the healing projectiles to hit the friendlies behind the wall.
Solar Beam is fine. Your suggestion is ridiculous. Perma 3+ stacks of burning from an ranged autoattack? Really? Staff isn’t meant to be a dps weapon, it doesn’t need more dmg. Edit: Only improvement needed → Make it usable without a target again. The current restriction doesn’t make sense anymore.
Astral Wisp can need some improvement, i agree. Some aoe dmg (or burning) would be fine i guess.
Vine surge just needs to be a bit faster. No need to turn it into a stronger version of an elite skill.
CD and duration of Sublime Conversion are ok – the game doesn’t need even more projectile destruction. The healing projectiles should be improved though, i agree with this point.
Shortbow and warhorn are the weapons which need improvements the most. GS and sword could get some (small) dmg buffs, and QoL changes (like shorter casttime on sword’s evade skills or removal of the root from GS5), but are overall not too bad. Offhand axe is a bit clunky, but dmg is pretty decent. Definitely usable in some builds. Mainhand axe is not that great, but still ok for condi or hybrid builds. Minor buffs won’t hurt. Longbow, staff, torch and dagger are overall fine imo and don’t need buffs right now.
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Trap ranger is usually weak vs cc, burst and ranged dmg. If it is a bunker it can be very hard to kill in 1vs1, but it should be easy to kite and to avoid most dmg. A less tanky power/hybrid build should die to a a well timed cc + burst combo. I would definitely stick with Basi Venom. No decent ranger should have issues vs daggerstorm, and it has too long cd to be really usefull.
I guess d/p or s/p would work the best, p/p might be good too because of the range. Condi can work or not, depending on the ranger’s build. Trap ranger can have good condi remove.
There is a difference between “needed” and “wanted”. I mean, i would like to see some higher numbers too of course, but for what exactly do you need so much more dmg?
Ranger doesn’t really fit a dps role, yes. But the same is also true for other classes, even if they have better dmg. Warriors, revs and mesmers are not used for their dmg either. They are buffbots just like druid. Yes, the first two can deal more dmg than druid – but it doesn’t change their role.
There are only two reasons why a class is taken in an optimal setup: Top dps (power or condi) or unique buffs/utility.
If you have second or third best dps – nobody cares, if you don’t bring anything else. (Thieves or guards are basically useless – strictly talking about efficiency here).
Buffing ranger’s dmg won’t change its role unless it can take the #1 spot in dps rankings. But having both top dps and unique buffs in one class, while all other classes provide only one of those two things (or none), wouldn’t be balanced.
Of course it would be nice, if all classes can fullfill different roles at equal levels, but that’s nearly impossible to achieve.
So you can care about the most efficient gameplay and have a role as buffbot (which is more than some other classes have) – or you can stop caring and just play what you want, including dps ranger. Things will still die. Maybe not as fast as you want them to die, but does it really matter?
1. Balance isn’t split between PvE and PvP.
2. Druid is already one of the most important classes in PvE, thanks to its support/buffs. Huge dps increase would require nerfs elsewhere to keep it balanced.
How to make ranger ridiculously op (in PvP/WvW) …
Apart from that, I believe we still have Jungle Stalker whose F2 CD goes on full 25 second even if it’s cast was interrupted before any or even partial effect took place.
This applies to all F2 skills which grant boons to allies (with the exception of the tiger).
Another bug: GS3 and 5 range is (negatively) affected by cripple and chill.
- Cool down and cast time : most of the pets have terrible skills with cool down and induction time that seem pretty stupid. There is a huge need for a balance work across all of the pets skills, at the moment most of them are unusable. The game promote reactivity while most of those pet’s skills spit on the face of this design.
Changing cooldown and casttimes of pet abilities is probably the easiest way to make many pets a bit more useful. It won’t fix other core issues, which are already mentioned in this thread and definitely should be looked at (i agree with most notes/suggestions here), but it could be a first step of improvement.
IMO barely any of the pet’s abilities is powerful enough to warrant 30+ seconds cooldown and more than 1 second casttime (for non-channeled skills). For most skills 10-20 seconds cooldown (untraited) would be more than enough. Especially since HoT, which made the game overall more “spammy” and reliant on low CDs.
3/4 – 1 second casttime gives the enemy still more than enough time to react, but makes it harder to avoid the ability by walking out of range without even noticing what they just did or accidentally interrupting the pet with AOE CC spam.
Some more concrete thoughts/suggestions:
Birds:
Generally Raven and Owl are fine when it comes to dmg and utility. Eagle and Hawk are a bit underwhelming, because the bleeds and the low cd can’t compensate the low dmg of their F2 ability. They were usually used to proc “on F2” traits like “Go for the Eyes” or “Intimidation Training” on low cd, but those are gone or have an IDC now. Maybe give them 2 seconds cripple (as addition or replacement to the bleeds) – in memory of Intimidation Training – while keeping the low cd and dmg?
Quickening Screech has too long casttime/aftercast and is often more annoying than usefull. Idealy we would be able to control this ability in addition (!) to the F2 skill. I don’t want the active abilities to be replaced though.
The main issue with birds is the lack of survivability. They pretty much insta die in teamfights to aoe which renders them completely useless and even in 1vs1 it is often impossible to keep them alive against opponents with high aoe/cleave dmg.
Canides:
Lower casttime of Brutal Charge and all F2 abilities to 1 second. Otherwise Drakehound is fine, wolf could maybe use a slightly lower cd on Terrifying Howl. Alpine wolf needs less cd on Chilling Howl, 15 seconds maybe? Regenerate (Fern Hound) could have its base heal a bit improved. It is also bugged and goes on full cd when interrupted. Please fix (this bug affects ALL F2 abilities which grant boons to allies). Not sure how to improve Hyena without just making it an annoying AI spam pet. But since it deals barely any dmg, making it at least annoying is maybe the right answer, idk …
Lack of survivability can be an issue sometimes.
Devourer:
All of them need reduced casttimes and faster or tracking projectiles, so they can reliable hit their opponents. F2 skills need less cooldown. I would suggest 15-20 seconds. Haven’t really used them, so i can’t say much about them.
Drakes:
Overall good dmg/survivability ratio, but lack the ability to reliable hit.
River and Marsh Drake would be ok if their F2 skills could track moving targets like the player’s channeled skills do if he doesn’t move (which the pets don’t do anyway). The other drake’s cone abilities should be changed to something like the Marsh Drakes F2 skill imo. Reduce cd of all F2 skills (20-25 seconds).
Not sure about Tail Swipe. It can be absolutely devastating with the right set-up, but it is way too unreliable currently. Making it directly controlable (again – without replacing F2. Yes, we need more control over pets) while keeping casttime, dmg and the blast finisher would be the best solution I guess.
Cats:
Mostly used for PvE, survivability issues in PvP. Outside from its “squishyness” the Tiger is a pretty decent pet. Other cat’s F2 skills are underwhelming compared to it and need less cd and/or higher dmg. If both gets improved significantly (see tiger), casttime of those leap skills can remain unchanged imo. Mighty’s Roar (Jungle Stalker) casttime is way too long though, 3 seconds for a few stacks of might, srsly? (on top of this it is affected by the same bug as Regenerate from Fern Hound – goes on full cd if interrupted – pls fix).
Moas:
Too long casttimes/cooldown on skills which rarely hit and even if they do, the effects are not that great. I like the idea of Moas as supporting/buffing pets, so maybe give all of them boons on F2? Without the “goes on full cd when interrupted”-bug of course. Would at least solve the “can’t hit” issue. Still need reasonable casttime (<1s), range (450 – 600) and cd (depends on which boons are applied for which duration – but 30s cd for 4s protection are too much obviously). Don’t give them boons like regen or swiftness – ranger has already an overabundance of those and he has to give up quite a decent amount of dmg by taking moas, so the boons should be worth it.
Their healing skill would be nice, if it could be controlled and had a better radius (450 maybe?). Currently it is useless most of the time because the pet is out of range, or nobody needs a heal when it is used or it gets randomly interrupted (long casttime), or …
Pigs:
They lack any meaningful purpose. Low dmg. Bad CC – Brutal Charge has too long casttime and cooldown. High stability uptimes and low cd stunbreaks render those high cd/low hitchance cc skills even more useless.
And their Forage skills have several issues: The items can be picked up by enemies. The whole process of using F2, the pet casting, walking to the item and picking it up and casting the skill takes too long. Too much randomness. Some foraged items have a higher cd than the Forage ability. If you get those twice in a row, you can’t use them and just wasted a huge cooldown.
Replacing F2 with the foraged skill (like thieves’ steal before they got F2) instead of having to pick up an item could solve some of those issues. Might be not enough to make pigs actually good, despite having access to some very powerful effects.
Spiders:
Just need to hit their targets more reliable. Maybe a bit lower casttime and higher duration on Poison Gas and slightly lower cd on F2 (45s -> 40s, 30s -> 25s). Being able to control Entangling Web and Poison Gas would be nice of course, but it’s not as needed as with some other pet skills.
Bears:
Stats and skill set makes bear’s usefulness completely reliant on the F2 abilities – and those are trash. Only brown bears “Shake It Off” is somewhat useful, just not good enough to give up dmg, cc and utility of other pets, so maybe reduce cd or increase the amount of condis removed? Other F2 skills need significant reduction in casttime and cd. And even then it is questionable if it will be worth taking bears. Tankyness alone doesn’t make a pet useful.
I can see them as useful choices, especially in larger scale fights (WvW), if they get long-lasting pulsing fields as active ability, like the Murrelow already has, just with lower cd (20-25s) and casttime (3/4s). Black Bear could get a dark field which pulses weakness, Polar Bear an Ice Field, and Arctodus anything else which pulses a (preferable non-damaging) condition like cripple and/or vulnerability.
“Defy pain” should be used earlier (at about 50% hp, not when the pet is almost dead) and should get a lower cd (30 seconds maybe?), otherwise even the tankiest of all pets won’t survive for long in big zerg fights.
Wyvern:
Need a serious improvement in their ability to hit a (moving) target. Fire Wyvern’s F2 takes way too long to cast, high cooldown, and the dmg isn’t worth it. Electric Wyvern’s F2 would be ok, if it wasn’t so buggy – it sometimes misses even against immobile targets right in front of the pet’s nose.
Smokescale and Bristleback are ok and don’t need any buffs or further nerfs right now.
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If he was full dire, LB would deal close to zero dmg and won’t stack any bleeds on you. Spike trap + perplex proc + AS proc = 11 stacks of bleeds and 5 stacks of confusion, ticking for less than 2k per second, unless you spam skills. Will take at least 10 seconds to kill you without cleanse or heal. It you died faster you were hit by more skills or he wasn’t using dire gear. If you cleansed and still died fast he was most likely hybrid.
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My numbers show over 10k of potential damage in a single hit, not counting the hit and whatever it does by itself. Plus I’m not adding might. and I showed the build. So by claiming 10K + you haven’t actually, when just considering total potential damage, supported your claim.
You showed a build that has close to zero dmg outside from IP procs and IA (long cd). Yes, if you are lucky and everything procs at once and the target doesn’t cleanse you can deal 10k+ dmg over 8 seconds with a single hit (no burst). So what? Without further dmg your enemy might be able outheal this, and this is even without cleanses …
I’m too lazy to make some screenshots of 10k+ burst, but it is definitely possible (with luck of course) for some power builds and you can easily test it yourself against target golems if you want. Those builds won’t be very strong in actual PvP at higher skill levels for several reasons, but they can work just as well as your condi build. So in the end those numbers are pretty meaningless and prove nothing.
Now show me what a reasonable power build that could actually play ranked can do in a single hit if they get lucky… and remember I haven’t added might, or any of the actual damage from the hit itself, or any of the conditions that hit would directly apply ie. napalm setting on fire for 6 additional seconds.
Pretty much any power build will do more dmg than your condi scrapper build, which is as “reasonable” as signet burst thief or zerk gunflame warrior or valk melee ranger – all builds which can hit for 10k+ in one single hit, with overall much higher dmg output.
(Btw IP is one of the condi traits i hate the most, because i think it is too much dmg for being an unavoidable proc – but overall condi engi/scrapper is far from being op and clearly subpar to power scrapper).
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I still do not understand why you consider the possibility of normalizing condition damage and power-based damage to be unreasonable.
You can either nerf condition dmg in general and make most condi builds useless or you can change how conditions work and basically make them the same as power builds. Why don’t just delete condis then?
You can also look at specific builds, figure out what skills and traits makes them so strong and nerf those. Because balance is not only about pure numbers. For example i haven’t seen a burnzerker yet in wvw. The few condi warriors i have met were not running tactics (PvP meta build doesn’t use tactics either – probably because it isn’t even that good as your numbers might suggest). Condi warriors are slow. Easy to kite, easy to outnumber, easy to run away from. And that’s actually true for many condi builds. Typically condi builds shine in straight up 1vs1 where the opponent fully commits to the fight and doesn’t try to disengage/reset/call for help. If you take away this single strengh – what is left for condi builds that would justify running condi over power?
Even now 1 simple auto attack can proc thousands of damage over time. While this is theory is in line with the attrition gameplay condi was supposed to be we aren’t counting in the multiple stacks + actual skills injunction with those passive autos. Throw in that most are ranged + easily reapplied and you start to see the problem.
Thx
Which autoattacks are you talking about? Necros scepter is pretty much the only strong condi autoattack that’s used in a viable build. And it still deals less dmg than autoattacks of many power builds. Some condi builds have zero condis on autoattacks. Autoattacks are not what makes condi builds strong.
2nd thing
Power damage can be blocked, evaded, made immune to with invulnerability, mitigated with toughness
Condis don’t come out of nowhere. The enemy has to hit you and you can avoid those hits exactly the same way you avoid power attacks. Condis can be avoided through blocks, blinds, invulnerability (don’t mistake immunity to direct dmg with invuln – those are different things), dodges, evades, LOS, going out of range and so on …
Yes, condis that are already on you won’t stop ticking because you dodge or block. But if you dodge or block after you got hit by a power attack it doesn’t do much either, right?
Cleanses and resistance are additional ways to deal with condis, just like toughness and protection are ways to lower the direct dmg you take.
Which unblockable AOE condi skills except from necro’s marks? Which doesn’t deal that much condi dmg after deadly chill nerf.
Btw, unblockability and AOE is not exclusive to condi skills.
(Krait rune 6th bonus being unavoidable is imo a bug and should be changed of course – but it doesn’t deal much dmg and won’t kill anything on its own)
(edited by UmbraNoctis.1907)
Pulmonary Impact – which can be the main dmg source of d/p daredevils – can hit quite hard in soldier gear. Against certain builds the soldier thief might be better than the dire one …
Soldiers hambow warrior was once meta, even considered op by some. Now it can’t compete with the overpowered new specs of course, but that’s not because of the gear which hasn’t changed … Soldier builds can deal “ok” dmg, which might be enough to kill some. Dire builds can’t kill everything either.
Also keep in mind, condi builds lose less dmg by using defensive stats, true – but they also gain less by going more offensive statwise.
Usually it is dire > soldier but zerk > sinister/viper.
I believe ppl are missing the issue relating to conditions. It is suppose to be an attrition based way to do combat, but condition take 0 time to ramp up. I mean the very notion of condi burst is proof of bad design.
For example lets take a look at skills like skull grinder […]
Skullgrinder can apply 6 stacks of bleeding and up to 8 stacks of confusion (only on interrupt, otherwise 4 stacks). Those condis are ticking for less than 1,5k dmg per second. Additional you take about 1k dmg per skill use.
Yes, total dmg can reach 10k+ dmg, but it will take 10 seconds or more for the full effect.
That’s the dmg a power builds can apply with autoattacks and you call it burst? Power warrior’s burst skills can instant hit for 10k or more every few seconds. That is burst! None of the meta condi builds is very bursty. Burst is currently less viable than lower but constant dmg due to the insane amount of active and passive defense. This favours condi builds for some classes, but also power builds like scrapper, rev and druid, which don’t rely on single hard hitting burst skills …
(edited by UmbraNoctis.1907)
Well, you are right, facetanking everything is definitely lazy and unskilled playstyle …
It would only depend on the builds used and on the playstyle of the players, not on the gear. So yea, soldier might be able to actually outdmg dire with certain classes/builds, dire will be better on other occasions …
It is not like you could equip full dire gear on any class, use some random condi traits and skills and get an op build, that’s not how it works.
And anet will never remove gear, so condis should (and can) be balanced arround skills and traits with the existance of dire gear in mind.
Even sinister/viper builds have usually less (burst) dmg than zerker, stop exaggerating the dmg of full dire builds.
I’m talking about Companion’s Might …
It won’t see more use in PvP even with your changes, it would only be a nerf for PvE where it is a decent trait currently.
Of course a ranger isn’t going to outdamage an ele in PvE, but this isn’t a reason to buff a traitline that is already quite strong in PvP. Boon spamming NM druids doesn’t need more dmg.
And if you are concerned about ranger’s dmg in PvE, why are you suggesting a dmg nerf to BM ranger then?
Axe doesn’t give the pet might without NM (you probably meant sword?), blasts and other aoe buffs prioritize other players over the pet and are limited to certain (not optimal) weapons/builds in a solo setting, signet trait, srlsy? All those options can’t compete with companions might.
The trait is fine as it is, don’t change, what doesn’t need any changes.
I’m not defending it, i’m saying, that your suggestion would make it even worse, because it would still be able to proc fear among other kitten.
Btw, the game is full of stupid passive procs, doesn’t really matter if it is from traits or runes.
Refined Toxins
- Another underwhelming trait for a Master spot. Not only does the 90% threshold hard to maintain in pvp, it only does 1 stack of poison too.
The trait is not that bad. You don’t have to maintain 90% health, you (and your pet) just have to be above the threshold from time to time to apply the poison, since it has a ICD anyways. It is basically poison after every pet swap and often after you healed. It is not so much meant to be a dps trait, but rather helps to deal with all the insane healing arround. I use this trait quite often – in power builds.
Bountiful Hunter
- Another trait that is so lackluster just because you need heavy investment on boon application in pvp in order to benefit from this trait. 1% is too low for it, 6 boons (which is rather hard to get solo will only give you 6% damage)
Changes
- You and your pet deal more damage per boon that is on you.
- Damage Damage per Boon: 2%
Reasoning: Making it 2% will be more realistic to get without a party.
You want to give ranger an adept trait that is exactly the same as other classes GM traits? Won’t happen.
Companion’s Might
- This is a good trait although it pales in comparison with the other two on the trait line.
Changes
- Your pet’s critical hits heal a portion of their health. Critical strikes from your pet’s basic attack cause bleeding.
- Bleeding (6s): 132 Damage
Healing: 500Reasoning: We have so much ways of granting our pet might. Leeching attacks will make them more sustainable especially in boss mob fights in PvE for solo content.
It is a decent PvE trait the way it is.
I would keep the might, because i don’t want to be forced into NM all the time to buff my pet. And if the pet dies in PvE it is usually because of huge dmg at once, in which case a bit healing over time won’t help much.
So you get randomly feared when you have stability? Yep, sounds much better …