Guild Wars 2

Well. Fun of course is a Relative Term.

What is fun for one person can be a pain for another. Case in point, I love carving wood, my wife, not so much. I mean I love the smell of sawdust, the whole creation and everything, to my wife, it’s just another way to make a mess.

Same with anything, for people who find Fun in WvW, that is enough, they enjoy it. It’s game. For those that do not like PvP or facing other players, it’s not fun.

So to say “because it’s fun” is really leaving a lot out of the equation, and for someone that does not find it fun, that answer makes even less sense.

I guess the OP is really asking.

“What makes WvWvW Fun?”

Well I’m out of words to explain that one. Anyone else want to step up and try?

Gummy.4278:

Well what Could happen is that people would farm the JP in WvW to get the badges, but then again 10 Gifts of Battle might make a fair price maybe….and while we are on the subject:::: separate badges from the loot bags and have them go into the bottom of the inventory tab the same as Gold, Karma, or Laurels.

I think if we removed the badges from the JP, that would fix the farming/camping the JP problem, which is really just that, a problem.

I really like the idea of badges being like Laurels, Account wide, and we should get 1 for each kill and 10 for a WvW Map Completion.

This could really work.

Rob.7624:

Do you really think we’re an even match? and we will be only a tier above you.

(Yes both servers may have changed, but I’m just offering scores from previous not change in server pop, and from what I can see. SF and ET’s scores are still similar.)

Those scores are very dated in regards to SF and ET. No doubt things have changed for SF after all, they went from losing to FC upon their arrival in T8 to owning the entire Tier, and that change did not happen because FC decided to just give up on week 2.

Anyway. Good or bad, remains to be seen.

I personally think that Darkhaven would be a better match for SF as they are both Green Servers, owning their respective tiers which I think allows them both a large amount of undue comfort, so for me, it would be far more fun seeing them both get a wake up call facing each other, then it would be to see SF battle some itching to prove it’s worth server like NSP.

I would rather they sold the WvW Commander Title with Badges as opposed to Gold to be honest.

I also think we should get 1 badge for every kill, and not for the JP, but that is because I am not a fan of allowing people to get Badge outside of earning them in combat.

Highlie.7641:

ah i just heard 30+ on the forums im not in t8 myself so it could be 100 for all i know

I would love to see the real numbers myself, you know. Put it in the overhead, where it shows the score, or on the pie graph for all I care.

But it would be grand if we could see the number of forces or maybe just the ratio (That way we would still have to guess how many we had and how many they had, to keep the mystery up) But either way, even if it just gave a ratio, like 1 : 2 : 3.5 or something, that would make me very happy.

It would really settle the trash talk about who is fielding what.

Spica.9308:

They don’t really deserved their win here, they deserve to fight darkhaven or even borlis pass but they are stuck here cause Anet is playing deaf like they did “Free Transfers”. Hope you’ll all get what you deserve eventually.

Deserve is a strong word.

Now this is all speculation on my part, but this is the way I see it.

It will be about a month before SF pulls out of T8, in that time, there is a good chance that NSP will drop from T6 to T7 and Darkhaven will move up.

Which will pit SF against NSP in T7. While I would rather see Darkhaven and SF face each other, as I believe that would be a great wake-up call for both, as they both have been ruling their respective Tiers.

As for what that fight would look like, I can only make guesses at this point, but I think that if SF moved to T7, that Darkhaven would destroy them, only because SF after many weeks of facing ET and FC, has only had to deal with short term resistance, and I do not believe that SF would fare well against such staunch opposition during a longer time zone coverage.

While I am sure the initial shock of that first week would wane pretty fist and either SF would step up to plate and give a good fight for themselves vying for 1st, or would submit to 2nd place.

Now, either GoM or HoD would fall to 8th, the thing here, is whoever came down, would be pretty much suck here for a while, but, depending, might settle into 1st place or even find that they fit quite well, of that, I have no idea at this point, but I think they would be a good match in T8 because both GoM and HoD, complain about the same issues that plague ET and FC, that being – the lack of being able to maintain coverage or field a large enough force to do much of anything beyond momentary gains.

However, whoever fell to T8 would not be that bad off because whoever remained in T7 with Darkhaven and SF, would pretty much be stuck in last place for their rest of their existence and get brutally stomped by both.

of course this is just speculation on my part looking at the numbers. but I wanted to put this out there now, so I can look back to it later when change happens and see how accurate I was, Of course this leaves me open to have people point out how wrong I was, but those are all part of the risks of playing these kinds of games.

Air.6452:

And I look forward to SF proving that they actually have a brain in their zerg, and it has been increasingly apparent in the last few weeks.

Air.6452:

You guys are showing more skill than just a 30 man zerg mindlessly acting. I have played against your server for months now and noticed a change.

Humm I missed this, and I can’t say I agree with it either. Honesty, I have not noticed any difference in SF’s tactics or approach to combat for the last few weeks. I mean, if you have, then great, but from my observations things have pretty much remained the same.

insanemaniac.2456:

wow, glicko is NOT a closed system.

Ummmm… it was never meant to be a closed system.

Air.6452:

Let the fun begin. I look forward to another week of smashing the SF zerg who seem so insistent to funnel themselves like the 300 hot gates as we AoE and pinch them into decimation.

I look forward to FC being practically non-existent due to whatever happened there.

And I look forward to SF proving that they actually have a brain in their zerg, and it has been increasingly apparent in the last few weeks.

Wow, that was a night. I was running with a group of TAC, in EB, as we held off a SF siege on our keep. Dang, that was some intense fighting, I did what I could and I will say, I enjoyed seeing you guys all work together.

They eventually took the place, by being able to field enough of a force to attack two sides of the keep while we only had enough troops to defend one.

Something to note, was it me, or was there something amiss with ET last night, it seemed like, after we took second, a good chunk of people called it a night, there was no Queue for ANY of the areas, and normally Friday on reset there is sometimes a 5 min wait to get into EB. Last night… Zip.. nothing.

Well the Week ends.
(All numbers have been cut off at the thousand mark, rounded down)

The end scores:

SF 383
ET 131
FC 97

Rankings and other points of Interest:

SF Gained 27 Points putting it at 959
ET Gained 28 Points putting it at 636
FC Lost 51 Points putting at 602

SF is currently 66 Points from Moving up to T7 after week 7, so if they do as good a showing or even slightly better, We can expect them to remain in T8 for another 3 weeks.

They would have to put out a much better showing to pull out of T8 anytime sooner, but even at their best gain of 56 points in a single match, we will be looking at no less then 2 more weeks of the same T8 match up.

Something to note: SF won the match by 252 points, their largest margin yet and netted 27 points, 2 weeks ago they netted a 56 point gain for a 243 point lead.

Anyway, the week ends. I hope everyone had their fun.

Wooo Hoo!

Blue doors for TEAM BEAN tonight!

Well today in the WvW news.. (You know, what we are supposed to be talking about)

In ET, our borderlands were being run up on both sides, SF on side, FC on the other, so what did ET do?

That’s right.. we took the Castle!

Go TEAM BEAN!

Advent.6193:

Worst part is, I can’t stop from thinking, “What if this FC/ET exodus had’ve happened in reverse?” Instead of losing mainstay Wv3 Guilds, what if we’d gained a few?

That is a happy thought to ponder.

ET used to be 3rd (long before I started playing) and something happened to drop them to last. I mean, I don’t blame anyone for wanting to move were the fighting is more fun. Greener pastures and all that, and I know this is painfully cliche’, but it’s just a game after all.

Cosmic.6047:

Not currently, but coming.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Orange-swords

Thanks for the link.. and I agree with some of the other posters there.. Yuck.

silverfire.2547:

The new orange swords change

I don’t recall any notes about a change to the Orange Swords in WvWvW in any of the recent patch notes. What happened?

Jovani.9207:

Ungood.3054:

Ralloff.7359:

Jovani.9207:

ET this is how bad we want your land.

Not even mad at that. I’m impressed even.

Umm unless I missed something, that’s one person manning 4 trebs?

This was all after we took the keep so it was empty for that moment and it was 5 not 4 trebs

Cool. When I first saw I thought it was 3, because of how they were tightly stacked.

Well I hoping we gave you some kind of fight at least, I was not there for this event, But no doubt this would have really rained some good destruction on whoever was.

Ralloff.7359:

Jovani.9207:

ET this is how bad we want your land.

Not even mad at that. I’m impressed even.

Umm unless I missed something, that’s one person manning 4 trebs?

geekanerd.4123:

I think Ferg is largely tapping out until this horsekitten is either A. Solved or B. SF goes up a tier.

Not to spread any doom here, but, I am not sure what SF going up a Tier would solve for FC or ET at this point. I mean, make no mistake, it would good for SF, but, as far as T8 goes, SF would most likely be replaced by Gate of Madness or Henge of Denravi.

Now, I could be missing something, but as I see it, neither of them seem to be any better a match for T8 then SF is.

Darek.1836:

Hi guys Im done. Moving to Borlis Pass sometime this week. Check my post in the Suggestions subforum in the T8 attention thread.

I read what you said, I feel bad for you and that things have come to this.

Not much I can say, but, I don’t fault you all, Fair weather and clear skies, best of luck to you.

Zen.1965:

Really like as much as I hate to say it ET and FC should just abandon WvW completely and give SF 24 hour full map ownership. Even saying that though I’m skeptical if it’d be enough, and even if it was, the server that’d replace us would probably be condemned to permanent residency no matter what. Tier 8 seems to be becoming some form of cruel and unusual punishment.

I too share this fear and had pondered this often on these very forums.

Like this dark cloud, that at some point, T8 will become a complete trap to any that fall into it, and that if SF does not pull out soon, it may not pull out at all.

When I voiced this, trying to explain the math and what was happening, and how it could end badly for all involved… well… You can read for yourself

So this is not a new thing to me. Been worried about this for a while now (well the 2 weeks that I started to look at it at least, you can see my first post in WvW was only 15 days ago) and even then, I saw the potential of what could happen (others had seen it far before me).

Well SF never was my enemy, and I wish you all well, after all, we as individuals can be on any sever we want, and any server we are on, is because we chose to be there.

Well, Good luck to you. Hope you pull out of this death trap.

I am seeing a bit more PvE in the Horizon for me, for a little while at least.

Sweet Gear!

That gave me some great ideas on Runes for my own gear, since I am still trying to figure out what does what, or how to make things happen, this has given me some good ideas.

Anyway, the character looks cool too!

ano.7965:

This is not intended to be a hate rant, i enjoy WvW and play quite often, I just think other means of warfare could benefit FC and ET other then getting rolled on the field. alot of commanders and guild leaders could benefit from reading the Art Of War, i know this is a game, but using this same old tactics is not in favor of FC or ET . Or keep doing what we have been and still lose or change tactics and maybe even the odds and win some.

Well this is true.

I agree with you 100%, that there is always room for improvement, be that leaders learn more tactics, we try new moves, etc, etc. it’s all good.

(edit: Changed While to Well, as that was what I intended to type)

sereniity seven.5603:

for the past week i have been trying to obtain a few vista to complete my map and its nearly impossible. its not fair that certain servers out number others 3 to 1. in my option this is just slaughter there is no fun in trying to zerg a server that out numbers yours.. is it just me who feels this way?

Ok..

Yes.. WvW is supposed to be fair, in the sense that the goal is to match up evenly balanced worlds against each other and there to be fun and challenging fights all around.

Yes.. WvW is supposed to be fair, in the sense that the goal is to match up evenly balanced worlds against each other and there to be fun and challenging fights all around.WvW is currently not fair, because it seems there are simply not enough “closely balanced” worlds to make even and enjoyable 3 team match ups.

Yes.. WvW is supposed to be fair, in the sense that the goal is to match up evenly balanced worlds against each other and there to be fun and challenging fights all around.WvW is currently not fair, because it seems there are simply not enough “closely balanced” worlds to make even and enjoyable 3 team match ups.That is the state of the game.

ParaldaWind.4523:

Tl;dr – kitten talking is fun. Let us have fun. Or not. Thanks.

There were a lot of good points brought up back and forth.

The reality is, it is good for players and people to vent, either from victory or defeat. And in some cases, polite and even playful poking builds bonds.

The downside is.

We have a Large Community: That means you have people on all ends of the spectrum, and that means you don’t really know who are talking to. They could have the toughness of rice paper, or they could be made of concrete. They could treat this game like a passing fling, or they could treat it like it was the only thing that mattered in their life. There is just much disparity in a faceless forum name, to really know what you are dealing with. This means what one may see as harmless joking another might see a grievous offence. What one might see as inconsequential another might treat as violating a sacred law.

Now, I try to joke with people, and respond to how they respond, and think that is what they want. This is not always a good procedure which brings me to my next point.

GlassCannons and StealthTanks: Now after 20 years of posting on forums, I have got to say, If everyone was built the same way, IE: if everyone’s offence was the same as their defense, we would not have as much in the way of problems on forums in general. The problem is, they are not.

Now, across about a dozen forums, some with rules, some without, what I have seen is that, Glasscannnons vastly outnumber anyone else, which means people come to a forum ready to dish out, but not prepared to take it. In fact this site, Flame Warrior really hits home for a good analogy of what you anyone could be dealing with on any day in the life of a forum poster.

So you get people that start to prod and poke, and when they get prodded and poked back, they get offended and turn hostile. In that case, yah, rules are good, better to have them then to let that kind of anarchy set in.

Accountability and Responsibility This tends to be the largest issue for anyone, across any walk of life and in any situation

I work in security, and the number of times I have had anyone admit to doing something wrong, I could count on two fingers, because I need two fingers to form a zero.

And it’s not just me, I mean, from the cop that has to deal with every speeder that won’t admit to speeding, to the computer tech that needs to hear about how the person did nothing, when they hand them a halfway and badly done reassembled tower. It’s everyone, everywhere, everyday that has to deal with rules, and the mods on a forum will not be an exception to this.

In fact, In the last 3 games I played, there would normally be a no rules off site forum, and lo and behold, the people with the biggest mouths on the main forum would be there complain about getting infractions, blaming the mods and the other posters, normally calling them names, demanding retribution and blood for their infraction/ban, etc, never once pausing to reflect that maybe they were the one to make the mistake. I personally don’t have any respect for those kinds of people, just me. When something goes wrong in my life, I don’t go looking to blame someone else.

Anyone watch the Shawshank Redemption? it seems on every forum I am on, I’m “the only guilty man in Shawshank”

Normally, when people get infractions, they tend to lash out at the poster they feel wrong them because they are not willing to look at themselves, (never mind the fact that their infraction or banning came from a third party, that reviewed their antics and placed them in the wrong) they of course accuse the other posters, normally, I laugh at this, but, I had one guy on another game of mine, who literally after getting an infraction, went an flagged every post I made on the forums in an act of retaliation to get me banned, and the result of that childish display was they got banned for harassing me. What dis they do? That’s right, they went to an off site forum and blamed me for getting them banned.

So yah. There are some real winners out there, and hard rules with good enforcers, help them go away.

Conclusion as a Company, it is an obligation to keep things proper, so when you know as a company, and a moderator, that is what you will be dealing with, there really is no benefit to relax the rules. It is better to keep the rules tight, taught and let the people who enjoy more loose rules can make their own site, or move off to another site and do their own thing.

I think, if Magumma enjoys trash talking they would profit greatly from perhaps having their own WvW Spat/Trash talk forum, who knows, you might get some people from the other worlds to kick it up with you, but normally, official sits and forums are not the place for that, too many kinds of people here.

I have nothing but utmost respect for your military credentials and I hope you are one of the commanders leading on the field.

However, I think the best thing anyone can do at this point, is make due with what we have, yah it sucks at the moment, but, I mean, it’s not really a war, it’s a fantasy games equal to “Capture the Flag”.

If we are not having fun in our tier/server/doing whatever it is we are doing, then maybe it time to mix it up. If that means we need to move on to another server, to do more PvE, to play a different game, then that is what we need to do to let the static clear.

SF and FC are not an enemy of mine, If I felt like, I could transfer to their server tomorrow and be fighting alongside them, or guest there and hunt in their fields, run dungeons with them, kill dragons with them, etc, etc.

Their is no war going on here, Except maybe the ones people make up for themselves. In the end we are all just a buncha of gamers trying to have some fun, we won’t change as people because we won or lost some silly sim battle.

I play GW2 for some fun, not to deal with someone else’s venom, or my own for that matter. And it’s very easy for that to happen, we lose fight, and things go sour fast, people start to spill hostility, and what have you on the map. That happens, and if you are like me, it gets under your skin fast, I am starting to realize that the best thing for me to do at that time is to move away from those kinds of people. Take a break, maybe PvE a bit, whatever.

While the current match up is stale, no doubt, that is no grounds to declare blood feud. It;’s not ’This server vs that server" tomorrow I could be in Jade Quarry if I wanted.

But in the end, It’s just people playing a pointless game, and trying to have some fun in their otherwise monotonous life, lets not try to make it more then that, ET just happens to be where I have chosen to stay of my own accord, as have we all.

Never capitulate!

@ Detharos

That was amazing. I mean that, and I personally feel that you really homed in on the spirit of World vs World, when dealing with it on a personal level. And I want to say that I feel that what you have written deserves more then to be a post on page 2 of a spat fight between bottom tier worlds.

I hope you finish off what you started, and put it up under it’s own topic, and we can hope that it becomes a sticky.

Personally for me, their were three major points you hit home with me.

Point 6: Trolls. I personally have one of those personality that I let people quickly get under my skin which makes me an easy target for trolls, and normally they can bait me along for much longer then I should let them, and someone will send me a /tell /whisper informing me that I am getting played by a troll. Typically at this point, I’ll re-read what transpired, and realize I had been duped and played by a troller, and then quickly /squelch them, honestly, I fall for trolls all the time, which is a bad personalty flaw on my part, no doubt, So, when I hit a troll in game, I use /squelch and move on because dealing with them is draining and pulls from playing the game.

Since you mentioned forums as well, I have to agree, these forums would benefit from a squlech/ingore option, like the game has. I think it would be a good feature overall.

Point 3 was a huge one for me as well. It is no doubt that people like the feeling of being in command, in charge, having power and authority, at the same time, it seems very few want to accept responsibility or accountability, and that Commander tag tends to drop both on the person, and we all know, when things go wrong, people start to point fingers, looking for someone to blame, and that commander tag is a prime target. In that front, my fault has been not standing up for the commanders, I realize I should not coddle them, but at the same time I should not stand idly by while they get ripped on either, and I have in most cases just remained quiet, but I should speak up, they take a huge burden, a greater burden the most.

I mean it’s a cliche of how many people try to deny they were speeding when the cop pulls them over, but a Commander is the guy who looks the cop in the eye and says “Yup, That was me doing 65 in the 30” while that maybe why we crashed into the tree, the kids screaming the back seat throwing a hissy fit were a part of it too, ya know.

So yah. Good point, and I will try to do more in that regard in the future.

5 – play for fun. This tends to be the hardest part of it, a lot of wvw fun it taken away when you are always facing against larger forces, and while in those times, I try to fsall back on the thrill of the kill, it’s still discouraging that at the end of the day, all you did was undone before you even log off.

I guess this is the hardest hurdle to jump.

None the less, Detharos, you put up an amazing post, and it really should be seen by more then just us. Such is my humble feelings on the matter.

Darek.1836:

For all wondering, the Tier 8 needs attention thread was moved to the Suggestion forum under the lovely command of C.C. Eva. Thank you!

-shrug-

I hate to say it, but, 6 of one, half dozen of the other. They are not going to change the system, or the numbers. They said they were going to start fresh with the end of free-transfers and they backed out of that decision.

I mean if you look at the numbers, and the scores, the issue is not just T8, there are larger gaps in power between people within a tier then there are between some of the words in adjacent tiers.

The Glicko system is a sound system, if you handed it the profile of every player in this game, in a short time it would be able to match us all up in ways that the outcome would be anyone’s game.

The main issue might be, that we only have 24 worlds, with such small numbers, it’s pretty easy that we won’t have perfectly divisible matches. Some days, you end up with maybe 4 worlds that are close, or only 2 worlds that are close, and you are trying to make three team match ups, in the end, blowouts will happen.

Even if they manually adjusted worlds, what would they do different with T8 at this point?

They would pretty much need to cause a massive upheaval to discover again where everyone belonged (Which was what they were planning to do) and as it stands, the majority of the population that plays WvW does not want that, hence why they have not done it.

So we might as well make the best of our situation as it is right now. We don’t have a choice really.

If that best is to focus on PvE then, that is what it is, if that best is to go out and try harder and do more, then they is what it is, if the best thing for you is to just run around with a zerg ball when the running is good and try to glean what fun you can as you can, then great. If you feel that the best thing to do is move to another world, then that is what you need to do. It’s a game, and meant to be fun.

At this point, there is no wrong thing we can do as long as we try to have the most fun with what we are handed.

scooby treat.8420:

@ungood

I hear ya man its a great feeling when you see everyone working together. Not only does it help your server it puts everyone in a better mood and people want to pitch in. When FC works together I love it. People talking in map saying “i’m upgrading the supply camp” or “i’m going to grab the frogs/ogres” stuff like that. It just helps sooooo much.

IT IS!

Well this afternoon before work, I was messing around, doing my normal PvE thing, getting my daily and doing what I suppose anyone normally does, Dragons, Dungeons, Crafting, the run to Maw, now that it is working again! Kudos to the Devs for the Fix. You know, the normal stuff.

Anyway, see the bat signal in the guild channel and the call for the Avengers to Assemble, and I’ll be honest here, WvWvW has gotten largely drab for me, and I have been feeling a little burned out by it, last night I did not do it all, Albeit, I also went to bed early, but still the urge has been dwindling none the less.

So I look at my Daily, now down, monthly done as well, no Dragons up, so, I join the hunt.

Wow. Seeing, I would have to guess well over 20 people in a zerg ball, I might even go so far as to wager there may have been 30, we are stomping the entire map around our borderlands, bashing down walls, destroying everything in our path. Now I’ll admit. by the time I got my bottom moving the early jumpers had already reclaimed half the map, so I charged along for the other half.

It was quite fun, if fleeting, and I was running out of time fast, my biggest note of regregt for the day was that I killed 10 people and only netted a single badge, at that rate, it’s going to take me a thousand dead to get a single legendary. Not that I have any issues killing a thousand invaders mind you, but, geeze Louise, that is going to take a long time, especially with burnout hanging over my head.

Detharos.3157:

I’m well aware that it went up last week. You are aware that 14 points is nothing in comparison to the 50+ rating Sorrow’s Furnace was gaining for near identical point leads in the past weeks? That’s right, its exactly as people have already explained to you in past threads. Glicko2 is making a projection of improvement for your server, and because it isn’t living up to the expectations, it is already punishing your ratings. Compare that to the previous weeks of 50+ rating and your weekly rating increase has dropped by well over 50% in a single week.

Good catch, I just noticed that SF’s gains were down in the last week, and FC and ET went up.

I wonder if some of the more active WvW Guilds or individuals are moving away from SF because they don’t want to be stuck in aT8 world Which when you consider they need to make a 100+ point jump (and that is after gaining 110+ points the last 2 weeks) to even start begin to move into T7, and with only a 14 point gain this last week (really only giving them a 5 Point move towards T7, which would set them up to be in T8 for a very, very, long time), that very well could be the case, but because the transfers cost money now, the shifts would be smaller then in the past with Free Transfers.

We would be looking at Just a few players here and there, maybe a small guild, or a very rich one. And I’ll admit, had not really thought about that, but after 6 weeks in T8, with no end in sight, that could grate on their members as well even if they are getting the most points.

Now, to be honest, I have no idea if there is any truth to such speculation, but it is food for thought.

Vilkata.4725:

Thank you, now that make sense to me. SF received a population increase that would make them more suitable for T7 or higher. I agree that something should be done to prevent T8 from becoming a sinkhole.

Even if they put in “Seasons” like most Sport teams, that last say, 14 games total, throw out a prize for the First Place Team at the end of the “season” like everyone that was there from start to end got a big bag of high end stuff.

Yah, yah, yah, there would be blowouts, but there are blowouts anyway.

Syeria.4812:

That’s not true at all. In fact, new strategies are more likely to be developed in repeated matchups against the same enemies than against new ones.

This is only true if fight was tight, or it was made clear that it was an error in strategy to start with.

The reality is, there is not much in the way of tactics to be used, and the most brutal and effective one, is one of attrition, thus If your opponent can without fail, play an attrition game against you, it is not IF you will lose, but how long you will hold out before you lose.

The reasons for this are simple. First, when facing the same enemy (especially one that consistently beats you) you have more incentive to change tactics than remain static. The more you use a certain strategy, the more likely your opponent is to find a counter to it, and the more effective those counters will be. If you use the same feint over and over again, they’re just not going to fall for it anymore and they’ll know where you’re going next so you have to mix it up to be successful. In addition to that, when trying strategies against the same opponents, you have a strong baseline as to how successful they are. Repeated matchups mean you likely know your opponent well, and have a good idea how things will usually turn out. So when you mix things up and try something new, it’s often fairly easy to decide whether it actually worked, and made you better off.

The irony of this, that you have an idea how well a tactic will work against them before you even use it, what that means in simple matter is, that it removes options, it does not add them when fighting a stagnant match up.

But your comments at the end of your post make me think you don’t know what it’s like to be in an unbalanced matchup. It’s not fun for anyone. Speaking as someone on a server that has placed 3rd every week for a very long time, I’d much rather take this matchup than the stomping we’d likely offer to the enemy from two tiers below us, and I know the server that’s consistently won our matchup would rather stick with us than be dominated by a server two tiers above.

As someone in an unbalanced match-up as well, I could not disagree with you more on this stand.

I simply can’t even fathom how anyone could want to face the same match-up knowing that it will end the same way, week in and week out.

I don’t grasp how any comfort or joy can exist in that. But I am not you, so don’t pretend to speak for you, and I am going to say, you don;t speak for me, or anyone but yourself for that matter.

However, the reason spot teams don’t keep lop sided matches going on endlessly because the majority of the world can’t fathom why anyone would want to watch or even be apart of a lop sided match up. They are boring, for everyone involved.

The reality is, If I was the winning world, you can BET I would want to move up and see how well I do as opposed to curb-stomping the same people week in and week out.

If I wanted Stagnation and the same predictable outcome all the time I’d PvE as there are better rewards for doing it.

rhyein.6172:

Every post here supporting WULD has just cherry picked example match ups that would’ve benefited from it

I find Calling 7 of the 8 NA tiers for the last month of match-ups “Cherry Picking” dishonest.

If we were to function under the idea that the Glicko system is in fact working right, and the math is correct, we come to a vastly different problem before us.

Work with this for a moment, If the math is right, and the Glicko system is not the problem then the problem becomes that some worlds really don’t belong to any existing Tier.

Case in point. ST is at 900+ Point scale, but Tier 7 is a 1K+ point scale, and T8 is at 600+ Point Scale, thus SF does not really belong in T7 or, T8

Now it is these “transition” worlds, like SF that make the WULD system would work the best for, as they would be able to move between worlds they are close to, even if they don’t really belong in either of them.

This of course might be a problem of only having 28 worlds and trying to find perfect matches for 3 of them at a time, and ending up where you have 2 worlds that are close matches, and thus good for each other to fight, but there is no available 3rd world to mix with them without causing a blowout one way or the other.

Which in that situation, neither the system or the math is to blame, it is doing the best it can with what it has, it simply does not have the means to make a fair three way match because there is not enough worlds to form these fair matches.

In that vein, we might have to realize that there will never be such a thing as “even matches” using the existing worlds with their existing populations, and in that case, rotation of these “border” worlds is better then stagnating them in one tier or another, when they clearly belong to neither.

scooby treat.8420:

Hi guys-

Just wanted to say lets all be happy
No need to argue like this on our thread just have fun on the battle field. I have had a great time with a lot of SF players just dueling and having some fun. Now I know we can’t always see eye to eye but how about a hug all around. No more kitten posts just hugs!
Add- also if anyone from ET or SF would like a duel just let me know i’m always down for a duel.

This morning was a grand moment for me. When I logged in, I saw a commander from RAD and several of our number had fully taken (or held) our borderlands.

And I went to the ET Borderlands, I quickly ran to the orange crossed swords with my level 13 Warrior, (even if last night I learned quite painfully that a level 12 warrior on Friday Reset night was not the best choice to use to defend the lands with)

But one the less, far be it from me to let little lessons like repair bills stand in my way, and what I saw, captivated me, I stood there transfixed for the longest time, I mean seriously I must have just stood there for a full half hour watching the most amazing thing unfold before me.

They were laughing and cracking jokes across Map chat as our troops under this one commander laid waste to any SF that tried to move upon us, just killing them swiftly and deadly as they kept the land safe and reinforced.

I was elated and content at the moment to just watch this unfold before me.

I was going to make an effort to contribute, but they seemed to have matters well in hand, so I moved off back to trying to level in PvE to get ready for next week.

Well I just wanted to say “Thank you” to that commander. I hope you know who are, and that your efforts and the efforts of those with you, are appreciated and admired.

Well.

Now that I am somewhat awake. a recap of last night from my point of view.

As with anything, Friday night is the only night was have a queue for the Eternal Battle ground, (and only the Eternal Battleground) so, after a few maw events and sifting though some dyes, to see which one matched my toons hair the best, I opted to head off to Eredon terrace Borderlands.

Wow… Ok, it seems Ferguson opted to start early, and oppose to leading a charge into Battlegrounds they decided that the spots in our land were more attractive. Once it seemed we figured out what was going one, you can imagine our Queue for EB went kaput as people jumped to defend what was ours as what was ours.

Now I will admit it was a bit of a fun change of pace to not only face FC in large force, but to even see them in such a state.

I mean on a normal night, ET can put maybe 15 people in a zerg ball, on a great night during the week we can get twenty rolling (and that is why I totally dismiss at any claim that ET fielded a larger force then fifteen to twenty on an off night.) and it seemed that FC is not doing much better in that regard.

So. Tonight to see a sea of blue, was a bit of a thrill in it’s own right. Even if, well… most of the time that I saw you guys.. I was running the wrong way, or trying to get back to the main force. The repair bill was not bad, never is, but, laying there as a horde of FC ran over my body and not single one of you pointed, laughed, or danced, I felt like I missed something that everyone else claims is done, and i wanted to give a shout out to you guys, to say “Thanks” for fighting (and owning me) with grace.

silverfire.2547:

While whining about night capping is at least mildly valid when it’s at the puppycrack of dawn or something like that, doing it when it isn’t even midnight Eastern time just comes off as unnecessary.

Meh. Going to bed.

While I am not sure when the night life ends on ET, I do know that once it does, ET won’t be active till around 8PM EST.

So, You will have pretty much all day to cap. Call it Day-capping, Night-capping. Midafteroon-capping, or second breakfast capping, for all I care.

By the time ET starts to stir, you will own the map, well, I expect you to own the map at least. I mean it’s not like you can’t do it, and if you can, you should.

insanemaniac.2456:

a compliment? in one of these threads? banhammer pls. so not allowed.

You don’t own me! I’ll complement if I wanna! Pubbbttthhhhhh!

Manoa.5897:

Ungood.3054:

Don’t flatter yourself, FC the one holding most of our lands, not you.

Okay, if you say so…

Allow me to update that for you.

Notice we hold as much in your lands as you hold in ours, and that is with also fighting off a heavy FC Presence in our Borderland, unlike you.

Anyway, Have a Nice Night, I am sure you will clean up the map by morning, you always do.

Manoa.5897:

Ungood.3054:

Manoa.5897:

Congratulations for being the quickest out of the gate. We shall enjoy taking it from ya.

I have no doubt that you will…

once we go to sleep. :-p

When you go to sleep? Why wait that long? :p

Don’t flatter yourself, FC the one holding most of our lands, not you.

But then again, we already knew they were good (if a bit vicious) fighters.

Manoa.5897:

Congratulations for being the quickest out of the gate. We shall enjoy taking it from ya.

I have no doubt that you will…

once we go to sleep.

You can tell it’s Friday again when you see this.

FilthyRat.4652:

Lol… your intent is not missed at all. Every post you have is some kind of negative way to get on your soapbox and try to make us feel bad for the games bad math or for the fact we are winning. And this started in the first week of us winning….very poor sportsmanship IMO. You will sit here and when tell people that you don’t care what they say when they are having a civil debate….Then please go e-mail Anet the way you post on here cause they are the ones in control!

Well.

While I am not going to mock you for a reading fail, I am going to say you wrong me, and you fail to grasp my intentions, but that is an issue on your part. Not mine, or the words I type.

The math is bad, that is why you are still here, Period.

You do only win because of your vastly larger numbers. Period.

You can either accept that with grace, or you can’t. If you can’t, that is not my fault for telling you the reality of the situation, if want to cling to some fantasy that you have skill on your side, then you should apologies, because every friday for the last weeks (The only time ET and FC has any form of Queue, also happens to be when we paint the map red and blue and Green takes the smallest slice of the pie)

That is the reality of things.

If ET had the numbers that SF has, make no mistake I would like a true combatant unapologeticly grind your server to dust alongside the rest of my server mates, no sever would do any different, but I would also have no misgivings about what was going on or the reason I am winning.

If you have anything to apologize for, it is in clinging to some illusion as to why you are winning, like that it involves tactics or skill on your part. You have a larger population,ergo can provide more coverage and field a larger force, ergo, you will win.

Every and any server would have the same identical outcome. You’re not a special snowflake, if the fact that I make that clear hurts your feelings, then I have only to say that the truth hurts.

Otherwise I for one am getting tired of hearing your mistreatment everyone on the forums with your bad mouthing and trolling anyone who is not singing your praise.

Swamurabi.7890:

Ungood.3054:

Swamurabi.7890:

Your point total analysis is flawed because of the one of the major flaws in WvW. Once a weaker server is wiped from a map , especially their own BL, they have a much more difficult task to just regain what they lost and usually just give up on trying to take anything from that map. You need to be better to defend paper walls than against fortified and if you were better you wouldn’t have been wiped from the map in the first place.

You seem to miss the big part of this:

If a sever is so weak that is can be wiped from the map, down to it’s own borderlands, and if a Server is so strong that it can wipe another sever from the map to their own borderlands, at least 1 of these 3 servers should not be meeting up again next week.

End of Discussion.

What you’re missing is the fact that in T2, I was there, I didn’t miss anything

The result was FA getting stomped, TC holding on to second, another blowout match between servers from three tiers.

Against Sanctum Rail you did 111 vs their 452.

That’s a staggering 340K Point difference.

Ok..now in T8, we are getting stomped by SF, and a 200K split is a bit demoralizing to say the least, but, a 340K loss on your part. I mean just thinking of how bad they must have stomped on you, I mean with that kind of split, what was the typically nightly exchange? You took back a BL tower and maybe a supply depot for a few hours a before it ripped asunder, that is assuming that kind of exchange was even nightly. Otherwise maybe got a karma train going once a night, assuming you did not hit one of their forces, And Stormbluff Isle, they defined getting owned, I mean 42 was all they pulled, that’s 410K Disparity, poor guys, did they try to field anyone at all that week, or did they just call it a wash and go PvE.

yah. I get it, I was not there. I am sure it was great tight fights all around and the battles were epic. I mean you scored a 111, I mean gosh, ET did a 116, and that is after a 5 week decline against SF.

But by all means, tell me how great it was, I am sure the hue of green they used to paint the map was lovely.

Medazolam.3058:

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

Oh, one more quickie before I have to go back to, ughhh, work. Not sure about anyone else but the past few weeks I have only had the queue is full message twice, both times for EB. If we are not hitting our queue number how can we be outnumbering you on every map, all the time?

I understand that our zerg outnumbers your zerg some/most of the time. But zerg on zerg action does not happen all over the map all the time. And if we are not hitting queue for the map, it can not be that bad. Perhaps out zerg is better organized and moved from objective to objective faster because they are doing the right things. I do know that we communicate fairly well, especially lately.

Havent seen a queue on FC on any map (except at match reset) in a long, long time….months (maybe ever?). I see outmanned buff very, very often. so yeah, there’s that.

Dont really care though, i am have fun still killing 10 SF for every kill they get on me.

keep bringin it! :-)

There’s a queue ?

Dredrum.2563:

Please don’t implement this, the difference between t1 and t2 is miles apart, after everyone bandwagon’d to the top tier due to the end of free transfers. This would just make it so T2 winner every week would move up for a week lose horribly then move back down. So Winning in the T2 bracket would actually be losing because T2 now is by far the best bracket imho. 24/7 fights but not 24/7 Zergs. The system as it is you only move up if you completely dominate your bracket and therefore should be moved up into the next bracket, but if the match is competitive the matchup stays the same as it SHOULD imho.

Great Minds think alike:

Ungood.3054:

You know what would be a very good mix, would be IF a blowout was required to cause a shift, without needing to play complex math or need endless change.

Simple – If a world destroys (Causes a blowout) it’s tier, it moves up, if it gets stomped, it moves down. Otherwise, things stay.

I suggested this, for that very reason as well.

• Because tight fights are fun.
• Because a forced move is not good especially, if they are not good/bad enough to justify the move

at the same time,

• They should move if they are much better or worse then the other servers in their tier and move fast.

No one likes waiting around.

EnRohbi.2187:

Ungood.3054:

EnRohbi.2187:

Ungood.3054:

Swamurabi.7890:

Your point total analysis is flawed because of the one of the major flaws in WvW. Once a weaker server is wiped from a map , especially their own BL, they have a much more difficult task to just regain what they lost and usually just give up on trying to take anything from that map. You need to be better to defend paper walls than against fortified and if you were better you wouldn’t have been wiped from the map in the first place.

You seem to miss the big part of this:

If a sever is so weak that is can be wiped from the map, down to it’s own borderlands, and if a Server is so strong that it can wipe another sever from the map to their own borderlands, at least 1 of these 3 servers should not be meeting up again next week.

End of Discussion.

Servers have primetimes at separate points during the day.
If one server in a tier has a strong oceanic or asian presence, they are going to capture at least one entire map overnight. This is not an indication that the servers are in the incorrect tier.

If either one is losing by or winning by a large margin, then it’s incorrect that they should be facing off next week.

Again. End of Discussion.

Having separate prime times does not mean the margin between scores will be large.

You post like you are speaking factually, but you show yourself to have less and less understanding of how wvw really works outside of anything but the final score count.

But you are right, this is the end of this discussion.
When you’re met with a logical argument you just copy numbers into your post and pretend they prove things they do not. Everything I’ve said remains completely valid and to continue with you would be redundant unless you choose to actually address any of my points.

When you first started this, I asked you to support your stand, your retort was to drop a pile of gossip and conjecture into the topic and pass that off as logic and fact.

Well, yes, against fallacies and fiction, I do tend to use facts and numbers.

I gave numbers, and facts, you have not. You have proposed ideas that are in stark contrast and in conflict to the facts. Will I accept that as valid. No I won’t. That is why I did not bother to respond to your post when I asked to support your point and you did not.

If that is the end of our exchange, I welcome it.

EnRohbi.2187:

Ungood.3054:

Swamurabi.7890:

Your point total analysis is flawed because of the one of the major flaws in WvW. Once a weaker server is wiped from a map , especially their own BL, they have a much more difficult task to just regain what they lost and usually just give up on trying to take anything from that map. You need to be better to defend paper walls than against fortified and if you were better you wouldn’t have been wiped from the map in the first place.

You seem to miss the big part of this:

If a sever is so weak that is can be wiped from the map, down to it’s own borderlands, and if a Server is so strong that it can wipe another sever from the map to their own borderlands, at least 1 of these 3 servers should not be meeting up again next week.

End of Discussion.

Servers have primetimes at separate points during the day.
If one server in a tier has a strong oceanic or asian presence, they are going to capture at least one entire map overnight. This is not an indication that the servers are in the incorrect tier.

If either one is losing by or winning by a large margin, then it’s incorrect that they should be facing off again next week.

Again. End of Discussion.

EnRohbi.2187:

Ungood.3054:

Ruprect.7260:

Every week would be an even worse curb stomp with your system.

Why do I post fact if no one bothers to look at them?

Why do we bother with numbers if no one is going to read them?

I disproved this fallacy, this myth you cling to is just that, a myth, a fallacy, that the numbers I have shown have disproved time and time again.

This belief that moving out of tier is bad is backed up by nothing more then the weights and merits of old wives and their tales.

If you can show me how it will result in blows out, with cold hard numbers, I’ll look at them, but lets be real here, I am not going to wait for that to arrive in the mail, sort to speak.

I’ve already told you why we ignore your numbers.

MY numbers? You think I made these up? You flatter me, but they are not MY numbers, the are THE Numbers, the Official Numbers I might add.

But yes, you have made it quite clear why you have opted to ignore THE numbers.

Swamurabi.7890:

Your point total analysis is flawed because of the one of the major flaws in WvW. Once a weaker server is wiped from a map , especially their own BL, they have a much more difficult task to just regain what they lost and usually just give up on trying to take anything from that map. You need to be better to defend paper walls than against fortified and if you were better you wouldn’t have been wiped from the map in the first place.

You seem to miss the big part of this:

If a sever is so weak that is can be wiped from the map, down to it’s own borderlands, and if a Server is so strong that it can wipe another sever from the map to their own borderlands, at least 1 of these 3 servers should not be meeting up again next week.

End of Discussion.

Ruprect.7260:

Every week would be an even worse curb stomp with your system.

Why do I post fact if no one bothers to look at them?

Why do we bother with numbers if no one is going to read them?

I disproved this fallacy, this myth you cling to is just that, a myth, a fallacy, that the numbers I have shown have disproved time and time again.

This belief that moving out of tier is bad is backed up by nothing more then the weights and merits of old wives and their tales.

If you can show me how it will result in blows out, with cold hard numbers, I’ll look at them, but lets be real here, I am not going to wait for that to arrive in the mail, sort to speak.