Guild Wars 2

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

Me too! Just imagine placing people to hit attack 2 so that fire erupts in a long procession down the entire line line! Classic.

That would truly be vid worthy!

But, since they were your rams, all they did was making target the dolyaks very difficult LOL.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Doubtful that you will make people on my server mad at me, like I said this isnt a widely held belief, but it aint exactly just ME either lol….See you forum warriors out there tonight!

Me make them mad at you? You wrong me sir and I am offended that you would accuse me of such an antic.

They will either agree with what you are doing, disagree with what you are doing, or find you insignificant enough to not care what you are doing, none of which I have any control over.

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

LOL, all I hear in this is “Whine, SF put up a bunch of flame rams, whine.” Really, what is the problem here?

I have no idea, I laughed my kitten off looking at that row of rams.

atomicjellybean.5389:

ET/FC do you want this upon you…?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEVON7-zaVI

Help me out, What was I supposed to be seeing here? That looked like a compilation of some of our more mild fights with SF.

Harbinger.8637:

HoD (or whoever moves down) is going to be just strong as SF. I don’t know why you guys think that once SF leaves, it’s all going to be flowers and candy.

Might have something to do with the fact that When Kain left T8, people said the same thing, and Kain beat t7 like a hapless puppie, stomping T7 harder then they ever stomped T8, I mean, I am not sure how T7 deals with the shame of being stomped harder by Kain then T8 was, I am sure they have their stories, on how they justify doing worse then T8, but, lets be real, their vanity on how good they think they are compared to T8 is not founded, never has been, and history has shown it.

So, yah, maybe we blow off lines like this because we heard it all before, it wasn’t true then, not going to be true now.

But hey, if T7 is as good as it thinks it is, then it will stomp SF and whoever comes down will stomp ET and FC and next week, everyone will go back to where they belong, all will be good in the world. But we all know that is not what is going happen.

Follow.. Follow. Follow the Flaming Ram Road!

King Amadaeus.8619:

It is great for my karma, XP, Titles, WvW exploration, and most importantly helps my server.

No. It does not help your server. It keeps them on T8 longer, so I wonder if they share your sentiments of keeping them down here out of some spite game you are playing.

But hey, keep it up, as boring as it is to face your unskilled zerg balls, and then cap everything back again every morning to your dismay, it’s great for my karma, kills and badges.

I mean, really if you don’t want to get out T8, you should have said but it seems there are those on your server that want to move on to something more, and you’re only hurting them. Not me, or Anyone on ET. In fact when you jump into our zerg balls, it normally ends with your death and us getting badges. so keep it coming.

King Amadaeus.8619:

With that being said, I can appreciate the point you are making about the score etc, but I would also say that WE are a better judge of our forces than YOU. Seems to US that we can hold a substantial part of YOUR BL while also holding ours and most if not all of EB. Rather than try to spread ourselves too thin it has been working well to hold what we can, rather than your claim of “shooting yourself in the foot by not taking FC land as much as you can. Every point you pass up on FC is one more point behind you remain, and thus keeping yourself here longer.”

What are we on, week 9 now, with no end in sight, yah, that’s been working out great.

Jeknar.6184:

Ungood.3054:

Manoa.5897:

P.S. The windmill is a dueling spot? Good to know.

I had no idea either.

Is that any windmill on any borderland?

I think it’s the windmill near Hero’s/Chapion’s/Victor’s Supply Camp. So there is one in each borderland.

Cool, good to know. Thank you

Manoa.5897:

P.S. The windmill is a dueling spot? Good to know.

I had no idea either.

Is that any windmill on any borderland?

King Amadaeus.8619:

I believe, truly that ET does have the numbers to give SF a run for their money, and that would be good for all (well except for the fact that if it worked we would be stuck in T8 that much longer lol).

Not us keeping you here.

If what you said was true, then your shooting yourself in the foot by not taking FC land as much as you can. Every point you pass up on FC is one more point behind you remain, and thus keeping yourself here longer.

In short, If you wanted to help FC then you should Transfer over there and help them, you’re not helping anyone by betraying your own server by refusing to attack them and thus stunting your own progress.

Jeknar.6184:

Ungood.3054:

Jeknar.6184:

because HoD (or whatever server is the next one in the line) will be fated to never leave…

This is not actually true. If HoD comes down and gives a good fight, IE: loses some, wins others, they will add good number of points to the T8 tier, which will bring all the Servers up in numbers. Thus if our fights are balanced, we all stand to gain ratings and HoD could potentially pull out faster by lifting the numbers of FC ans ET.

They however might really mesh well in T8, anyway, and we all get what we want, which is fun, balanced matches. If we get that, and we have fun against each other, who cares what Tier we are on.

The problem with T8 right now is how lop sided the match up is. If SF had not gotten a jump in numbers and remained at the force level they had when they arrived, then we might all be having fun at this point as opposed to dealing with the odd man out.

Can’t change that now. But HoD has been a 3rd place Server on T7 for longer then FC or ET have been 3rd place servers on T8, and the only reason they have not dropped to T7 a long time ago, is the due to the messed up numbers in T8 right now. So their is a good chance they will fit in well with us as opposed to spending the rest of their existence as last place in T7.

Servers don’t create rating out of nowhere. If a server gain rating, other is losing…

In the first matchup, if HoD drop with 900 rating points, it will be more likely that they will lose 200 right away unless they roflstomp T8. That will put all 3 servers on T8 at 700 rating, which is 300 behind the last one in T7 (that will be SF). There is a canyon (created by the past blowouts) between T7 and T8 and that’s why it’s so hard to get away.

You are correct. There is a good chance that when HoD comes down, they will drop around 200 points no matter what, but at the same time ET and FC will gain around 100 to 150 point each, which put all the worlds around the 700 to 800 mark.

Because points can be gained and lost, so one world losing 100 points does not equal another gaining 100 points, equally so, one world gaining 20 points does not require another world to lose 20 points, what would most likely happen is we would hit around 800 point worlds within two or three weeks, and then slowly start to build up. That is assuming there aren’t any massive jumps in players on any server.

That is also assuming that ET and FC are in fact really 900+ point worlds, and not 600 point worlds. If Et and Fc are 600 point worlds, then SF will potentially crash back down unprepared for T7 and HoD will destroy us and pull out of T8 within the week.

Well I found it amusing.

I have been wanting to take a week off, to just “whatever” but.. it seems somehow I always end up back in WvWvW, It’s just fun.

Pmetheus.5397:

JQ WvW commander here from one of our biggest WvW guilds. Not to bust your bubble or anything, but if T8 faced T1 with our coverage at this time, you wouldnt last a day. I’m not trying to sound rude or pretentious. Its just our WvW coverage is massive in all three servers (minus SoR) and you will see practically no downtime around the clock. Being constantly hit in WvW will and does deteriorate a server and kills morale of guilds. People have probably heard of our stacked servers constantly fighting each other. Its true, and if you have any gaps in your coverage, we will take advantage of it to every extent possible. T1 is only a place to be in if you really like constant competitive WvW, non stop. For our servers to survive up there, we’re constantly in WvW.. You get no breaks up there. For those of you who enjoy WvW as is in other tiers, please stay there for your own sanity. kitten gets crazy. Just enjoy your server, tier, and most importanly, the game.

Have a good day and stay frosty.

This was refreshing. I see now the disparity between 1st place T1 and the people who are wining on T8.

You are confident, you are secure, you’re not ashamed of the power you put on the table, you lay it out clear, you have the numbers, and the coverage, and take great pride in that and you are sincere and respectful about it.

I am in awe, but I see why you are are indeed 1st place, when I see the words of the commanders like this. I have a new respect for you, and for JQ as a whole after reading this. This is truly what winning with grace is all about.

If the game got reset, and we were pit against each other as the numbers sorted out, I can say I would be a privileged to lose to you and yours, and hold no illusion we would have a chance

Jeknar.6184:

because HoD (or whatever server is the next one in the line) will be fated to never leave…

This is not actually true. If HoD comes down and gives a good fight, IE: loses some, wins others, they will add good number of points to the T8 tier, which will bring all the Servers up in numbers. Thus if our fights are balanced, we all stand to gain ratings and HoD could potentially pull out faster by lifting the numbers of FC ans ET.

They however might really mesh well in T8, anyway, and we all get what we want, which is fun, balanced matches. If we get that, and we have fun against each other, who cares what Tier we are on.

The problem with T8 right now is how lop sided the match up is. If SF had not gotten a jump in numbers and remained at the force level they had when they arrived, then we might all be having fun at this point as opposed to dealing with the odd man out.

Can’t change that now. But HoD has been a 3rd place Server on T7 for longer then FC or ET have been 3rd place servers on T8, and the only reason they have not dropped to T7 a long time ago, is the due to the messed up numbers in T8 right now. So their is a good chance they will fit in well with us as opposed to spending the rest of their existence as last place in T7.

Jeknar.6184:

Iskandor.9415:

I’m too short to be as photogenic

Getting a good angle can be MITE dificult… Asuras can do it aswell.

Iskandor did do pretty good, but, dude, you have a gift for that. Well done as always. Good show ET.

Jeknar, where is the score update?

Oh look. Nothings changed.

Well. Good luck to the decent players, may you do your server proud.

EnRohbi.2187:

But there is simply no way to fix tier 8 without breaking other tiers. And I am confident in assuming that the majority of players would rather have fair matchups than new ones every week. I’m sure everyone would LIKE new matches every week, I certainly would, but it’s not feasible here.

How would the other tiers get broken? In short order everyone that belonged together, would end up together.

In fact the numbers would be more accurate then they are now, because they would not have gotten warped by Transfers, which affects all servers, so potentially, everyone would come out ahead.

Well the Week Ends.

22 SF – 402 Up 49.4 points – Ends at 956
23 ET – 106 Down 37.4 – Ends at 629
24 FC – 104 Down 5.7 – Ends at 603

For relation:

Rank 21 Server HoD is at 1012, giving it a 56 Point lead over SF, which means, that if SF can pull this off for at least 2 more weeks they can pull out of T8.

We shall see what the future holds.

EnRohbi.2187:

Go look through score histories,
Look at just Kaineng as an example.
They’re a tier 2 server and they steamrolled everything up to and including tier 3. And tier 1 is a whole other plateau above them.

If you’re pretending to think tier 8 would even be able to hold a single tower against Jade Quarry then you are the one who is trolling.

You fail to grasp what I am saying (Well not just you, by the several posts I have read, quite a few people missed the point like a crop duster flying into a house missed the landing strip)

What I am saying I do not fret over any match up, even one that would pit ET against JQ, especially if it would be better for the game overall. In fact I would welcome it, and find some good in it.

In the end, we have a problem with the tiers caused by Free Transfers, if fixing that means that a match up as lop sides as ET facing JQ happens, I do not fear that. And, I don’t get why anyone else would.

What’s the worst that will happen, you get a little slice of humble pie for one match up? You fear that, the truth is, you dearly need it.

Advent.6193:

Well, Filthy: I’d have to say that is because -in general- FC’s been dealing with the T8 biz longer. We’re sneaky mofos, and accustomed to having to go shadow-warfare on folks. Note, this is nothing against ET. Fact is – I’m seeing recently why they were higher Tier. Some of their guys get decently tactical.
In the end, however, you’re all targets to deal with. My only issue is I just wish we had
the same kind of hella fun fights we had the first couple of weeks

Fun Trivia Fact: Of all T8 Servers, only FC does not have a Rat infestation.

Ruprect.7260:

@Ungood

Facing JQ would be different but it would not be fun. You would never leave your spawn. How would that be more fun?

In TC when we face a T1.5 server that drops down, we are dominated for a week. I cannot imagine that you guys would even be able to get out of spawn on any map at any time for a week. Facing 30+ JQ outside your spawn on everymap while they tick at 600+ all week would be totally demoralizing.

That was funny. If you thought that was going to phase me, you thought wrong, ET and FC already have 30+ Zergs camping our spawn points courtesy of SF. We just fight back enough to prevent them from getting 600+ a tick.

EnRohbi.2187:

Ungood.3054:

EnRohbi.2187:

I can tell you with some certainty that if Jade Quarry faced any tier 8 server you would literally be spawn camped 24/7 until the next reset.
Learning new things is nice, but you wouldn’t get the chance as you’d never even see a supply camp.

All I will say about this, is you assume much.

I know we’ve disagreed about many things in the past.
But you are delusional if you expect to even get an opportunity to use real tactics against Jade Quarry as a tier 8 server.
It’s an assumption, yes, but it is a correct one.

I’ll say it again. You assume much, most of which I have found lacking any support, like making claims that any T7 server would be the same as SF. When you make outlandish remarks, you can’t expect people to suddenly take you seriously.

*Can you promise that would not learn anything, no you can’t. Thus you assume much.

*Can you promise that we would not get to use tactics or have fun with them, again, you can’t. So you assume much.

The only thing you do know is that we would lose, but so what, since when as ET or FC shied away from a losing battle.

ET and FC fought Kain, a T2 server for 3 weeks straight, we are no strangers to unbalanced matches.

In fact, here is some fun info for you, we fought the server that Stomped yours and we fought them for 3 weeks tooth and nail and did almost as good as you did upon our first battle with their new forces (Which was week 50 in case you are wondering), as they rose up. So spare me any assumptions you have about the fight or ability of T8.

However, I will say that I feel bad that if the prospect of losing is so scary to some people, that they feel obligated to try and maintaining a messed up system out of fear of facing a blowout match from time to time.

EnRohbi.2187:

I can tell you with some certainty that if Jade Quarry faced any tier 8 server you would literally be spawn camped 24/7 until the next reset.
Learning new things is nice, but you wouldn’t get the chance as you’d never even see a supply camp.

All I will say about this, is you assume much.

Also, I didn’t mention it in my post because it’s a different subject entirely.
But I have long since had the opinion that reverting back to 48-72 hour matches permanently would be a good decision.

Well not really. It address a very large part of the problem.

First being the Tedium issue. Shorter matches don’t let the fight drag on if it is not balanced.

Second being potential stagnation. In a matched structure, people would not move much. But in an unmatched structure, they would move to where they belong quicker.

So this could be a type of a solution to the problem, only by making the mess sort itself out in weeks not months.

Grommet.2963:

Finally off work, Chody from TAC asked if anyone recorded the big fight at AB in ET BL yesterday, I just so happen to have a brand new hard drive for recording, and managed to catch that very fight!

Started up a channel on youtube, no personal music on this comp atm (I’m a radio guy, I know, weird right?), so I just slapped on whatever I could find in the youtube editor. I’ll be adding new videos and getting real video editing tools soon xD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csOvHPjtwok

Part of my party couldn’t even make it there were so many SF blocking our reinforcement path. Crazy intense fight! It’s been a lot of fun in WvW this week, cya all on the battlefield!

Sweet Fight. Good Show everyone.

EnRohbi.2187:

Ungood.3054:

Quoting this made the post too long to submit

The problem with just reseting the scores is that there are balance problems through all tiers. Tier 8 is the only tier that’s really going to benefit from a ratings reset. (Yes, I’m aware many of my arguments are along the lines of “Anet won’t upset the many to fix the problems of the few”, but it’s still valid here).

Hummm. I don’t fully grasp this view. I mean when I walk out into the WvWvW battle grounds, I am there to fight. Winning or losing, T8 or T2, are not an issue for me, they were not an issue when I started, they have not become one.

The main point of contention is the tedium of stagnant match up, if you gave me the choice of facing SF again or Jade Quarry, I’d take JQ, and I believe anyone else who enjoys gaming for the thrill of battle, would as well. Not because I think I have a chance against JQ, but because it would be something new. In fact, the idea that I may learn something would be enticing, and think anyone that enjoys challenge for the sake of it, would feel the same thrill at the prospect of diverse opponents.

In many ways, I think it would be better for the game over all, we have many new people, and many servers that have become complacent. A reset would set old beliefs away, just like the people that come here and mention that ET and FC don’t have fight, I think it would be highly enlightening for some of them to come on over and see how much fight we have in us. Just like I am sure some servers would like see how well SF really stands up now days.

Much has changed over the months with the transfers ended people have rutted in. The rutting is where the problem lies. Anyone that would not want to see chaos thrown in the system does not truly have a fighting spirit burning in them.

Can you honestly say you never wanted to see how well you matched up against SR, or Blackgate, just to see how well you would do? That maybe, win or lose, they would gain some respect for you, and you for them.

I find it hard to believe anyone would really not want to change things up, that they fear a reset because it would mean they would lose from time to time. Have players become that cowardly in WvWvW? For real?

I spoke out a lot against the ratings reset when they had it planned, because of how they had it planned to execute. If a ratings reset were accompanied by 24-72 hour matches again (To “Gather data”, just like after launch), I would strongly support the move.

When I think about it, if they made 2 – 3 day matches, and kept that way, that would also move the system enough to fix the problem in short order as well, because lets be real here, we can normally tell by the end of the weekend who is going to win the week.

So if they simply made it 48 – 72 hour matches that would also fix the tedium up a bit as well. And no one would be worse off due to this kind of change either.

I could get behind making the match up shorter. if they made it 2 day matches, that would make a current month of matches end in a little over a week. That would work the system out faster.

I could see them doing that now that Free Transfers have ended to “gather data”

Good luck out there and I hope you have fun with it!

Remember, it’s a game, play for fun!

King Amadaeus.8619:

Oh, well then I do truly (seriously) apologize, I HAD misunderstood BOTH entire servers stance/issues, because this a lot simpler than I previously had thought.

SF is just better I suppose at getting our people to defend the server (participate)….See y’all on the battlefield! Have a good one!

You as well. Good luck on the field.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Ungood.3054:

King Amadaeus.8619:

I love how smiling thinks he knows who is on WvW all the time…Also MOST of us will admit that we technically outnumber you, the disagreement however stems from the fact that you guys are implicating that we outnumber substantially…Which is not the case at all, I would venture to guess that it is not even close to a 2:1 ratio.

You have around 300+ points of “manpower” above us and growing.

To explain that in simple terms you first must realize that Server Population != WvWvW Population, so if you were looking in LA for the Disparity in force numbers between ET/FC/SF, you were looking at the wrong part of the game.

In other words, two servers could have identical populations and yet have vastly different force numbers when it comes to WvWvW. Simplified further: If server A has 30% of their population playing WvWvW and Server B has 10%, even if Server A and B have the same number of people on their server, Server A will outnumber Server B by 3 – 1 on the WvWvW Field.

I could go on to explain coverage, time played, and homogenization principals, but that would require a very long post (perhaps a several Post break down) and it would involve the reader wanting to discuss complex concepts and math, which tends to not bode well on these forums.

So, lets keep it simple for the sake of discussion, now, unless SF has a massive queue to get on the battle field, you won’t see the people who want to WvWvW in LA as they will be on the WvWvW maps fighting. Equally so, if there is a long Queue, you won’t see them in LA either, as they are better served to go off and PvE while they wait to get into the Battle Field, as you can access it from any part of PvE the game.

So to tell me you did not see hoards of people in LA, is really expected. I mean, beyond fractals and zone explorer (That PvE Stuff), there is zero need to hang around LA anyway. So, not to be rude, when you talk of no one being in LA, well, if they are gamers like me, they are off where the action is. If LA was full of players on SF, I would be kinda shocked to tell the truth, more so wondering why they were just standing around in LA.

As for the solid numbers. I think Nugget is pretty close to where things sit.

Actually LA is rather full most of the time….Second I think you guys are missing what I am saying. Or maybe the other way around…

It is? My that is.. news.

What I am saying is that you have a PARTICIPATION problem, whereas you guys (at least to me) are making it sound like you have a supply problem (IE: not enough people). I realize while you have theoretical ACCESS to these people, that them actually showing up and PARTICIPATING is the real issue.

Nope. No one is discussing why you out number us as it is vastly irrelevant or we already knew (As some posters have been explaining), just to clear that up for you. The only thing that matters is that SF is out numbering ET and FC on the WvWvW maps, and can hold those numbers longer. If you thought anyone from ET or FC (especially me) was discussing more then that, you were mislead.

King Amadaeus.8619:

I love how smiling thinks he knows who is on WvW all the time…Also MOST of us will admit that we technically outnumber you, the disagreement however stems from the fact that you guys are implicating that we outnumber substantially…Which is not the case at all, I would venture to guess that it is not even close to a 2:1 ratio.

You have around 300+ points of “manpower” above us and growing.

To explain that in simple terms you first must realize that Server Population != WvWvW Population, so if you were looking in LA for the Disparity in force numbers between ET/FC/SF, you were looking at the wrong part of the game.

In other words, two servers could have identical populations and yet have vastly different force numbers when it comes to WvWvW. Simplified further: If server A has 30% of their population playing WvWvW and Server B has 10%, even if Server A and B have the same number of people on their server, Server A will outnumber Server B by 3 – 1 on the WvWvW Field.

I could go on to explain coverage, time played, and homogenization principals, but that would require a very long post (perhaps a several Post break down) and it would involve the reader wanting to discuss complex concepts and math, which tends to not bode well on these forums.

So, lets keep it simple for the sake of discussion, now, unless SF has a massive queue to get on the battle field, you won’t see the people who want to WvWvW in LA as they will be on the WvWvW maps fighting. Equally so, if there is a long Queue, you won’t see them in LA either, as they are better served to go off and PvE while they wait to get into the Battle Field, as you can access it from any part of PvE the game.

So to tell me you did not see hoards of people in LA, is really expected. I mean, beyond fractals and zone explorer (That PvE Stuff), there is zero need to hang around LA anyway. So, not to be rude, when you talk of no one being in LA, well, if they are gamers like me, they are off where the action is. If LA was full of players on SF, I would be kinda shocked to tell the truth, more so wondering why they were just standing around in LA.

As for the solid numbers. I think Nugget is pretty close to where things sit.

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

It makes me excited to get into a higher tier which I know won’t happen soon.

Don’t give up hope. get out there and fight. SF is looking to get a 48 maybe 50 point jump this week, and if you can pull that off again next week, you are looking to pull out of T8.

So, don’t let it get you down.

Jeknar.6184:

I woke early today to meet the so called “ET night/morning crew”. What disapointment to see they didn’t show up this night…

Sorry, been having computer troubles and just sold the house, been on the laptop so I can’t really play.

SniffyCube.6107:

nah most SF are realistic about outnumbering us (the same SF that are in wvw all the time),

Well that’s good to know. Would be shame to not give credit where it is due.

King Amadaeus.8619:

I was thinking the same thing about the swords, but I am sure you can see them.

We have been seeing more and more of them from ET, but everyone on here acts like they have never generated them…I know we have seen them on many occasions the last couple of weeks, honestly don’t remember seeing any from Ferg but I could be wrong.

According to the patch notes, Orange sword are triggered whenever 25 or more people engage in combat. It is not required they be on the same team. So, if 15 SF and 10 ET fought, orange swords would trigger.

So, maybe you are seeing more orange swords, because you are fielding far more forces then you think you are.

As for the Rat’ kitten #8217;s, yah, loved it, 25+ Man zerg ball, and you’re still not out manned. Sigh

Wish I had been there, would be kinda cool to know if ET had the out manned buff up.

katz.8376:

i never said we NEVER make orange swords. i said we RARELY make orange swords. XD

No one ever said ET never makes Orange swords, but you know how it goes when you talk about a sensitive subject like force numbers with SF.

King Amadaeus.8619:

I wouldn’t get into debates about this anymore because its obviously a touchy subject.

It’s not a touchy subject for me at all. In fact I find it hilarious that SF keeps trying to down play their numerical advantage.

Here is the issue. Free Transfers messed up the system, that means that as Anet sees it the problem is not glicko and it’s not the math. So they can’t “fix” those things, because there is nothing actually wrong with them.

The problem is that thanks to Kain and DR pulling out with massive influxes of people, the numbers in T8 got skewed. This was made very clear on week 1, when SF went to T8 and lost to FC which at the the time was rated at a 600 point world and SF was a 980 point world. The following week, SF won, but both fights by a very tight margin. This means that FC was really around a 975 Point world.

To expound on that: Detharos.3157 explained that SF really had the numbers and power to be a T6 world. Glicko makes it clear that SF is 300 points ahead of FC and ET, Week 1 showed that FC could beat a 980 point world and should be around 972 points. To express that with simple math.

975 (Where FC should be) + 300 (Glicko’s Power Disparity) = 1275, which would put SF Smack dab in the middle of T6, exactly as one of more adept WvWvW scholars would put SF.

SF is however stuck in T8 now because Kain received a 1200 point boon in player power within a very short time frame, this shot down FC and ET’s numbers below where they should have and would have been in a more stable environment and thus generated an artificially low number.

Glicko did what it could and responded to the situation within 4 matches, but by that time the damage had been done, because Glicko as a system it is not designed for an environment where players can that drastically and swiftly alter the power of a world. The fault here however was not with Glicko, but Anet giving the players the ability to screw the system and screw with it, they did, in spades.

In short, this meant that thanks to Free Transfers and people band-wagoning to Kain, a 700 point world was artificially boosted to a 1900 world, and then pit against two 900 point worlds under the false pretense that it was a 700 point world. that is what smashed the T8 rating.

Glicko is not the problem, as a system it works, and does it’s job so well that almost every pvp game out there uses it or a variant of it. The problem was Free Transfers allowing players to screw up the system, and screw it up, they did.

But players screwing with the system is why T8 is a sink hole today.

So with the end of Free Transfers Anet should have reset the system, and it would have corrected itself in short order, a floor would not need to be put in.

Why Anet did not do it, I am not sure, their motive was their own, but because they didn’t, the messed up numbers due to Free Transfers remain, but thanks to the ability of a Glicko system being able to correct itself somewhat, only T8 really took the largest burden, but this is because T8 could not move.

On week 1 when SF came down, we see growth in the numbers at T8 and a sign that the system could begin to correct, but then in week 3 SF got an influx of people and began to smash the system again however, they did not receive enough of a boost to pull out, and instead crated a sink hole they are now stuck in.

The only way for this to be fixed is for Anet to rest the numbers, Or at this point, for SF to back off, let ET and FC gain numbers again and build back up to 900 point worlds where we belong, and allow us the players to correct the system that us the players screwed up in the first place. But I doubt that something likely to happen, because like SF asking ET and FC to back off and just let them pull out fell on deaf ears, I know that asking SF to just hold their numbers, and let ET and FC build up their own, would be pointless as well.

Which is why many of us want another server to come down, which hopefully will be more apt to our power level and with Free Transfers ended, that will give us something to fight that we can fight and gain our numbers back up to where they should be.

Linkisdead.9647:

So now you’re backing the system that we’re all complaining about in a thread like two up from this one?

It’s an awful system for us in tier 8…unless you can use it to prove how good you are. Right.

Allow me to Explain it to you, with a quote by me, from that thread.

Ungood.3054:

The first is that Transfers Artificially Altered the numbers.

This may have given a vastly low number to T8 specifically, because as a server that got an influx of people went to pull out, it would have had to start at where Glicko thought it was, and then pound till it pulled out, as Glicko corrected where it belonged. In this case, it’s first pull out is the hardest, and as such, T8 takes the largest hit.

Had they not had free transfers, the Glicko system would have been better, and the numbers may have been inherently closer or at least reflect where some tiers should be.

To give that real numbers: ET and FC are now rated at 600 point worlds. However, a good chunk of their damage was done by Kaineng puling out, hence why SF lost 150 points when they came here at first. Had Kaineng not received an influx of serious WvWvW players, then FC and ET would be hovering much higher and SF would not have taken the loss it took upon coming here.

So, the reality is, ET and FC might be closer to 800 even 900 point worlds, which would mean that SF is really a 1200 point world, but, because of the Transfers damage was done. Now many worlds might be also affected by this, but because they can move down and up, they can be rectified faster as they face different and new opponents, ET and FC can’t, because they can’t move about.

What this means is that, ET and FC lost many points over the time that Kain pulled out, points, that because we are T8 and thus can’t move around, we can’t gain back.

Now, we might have been able to get them back somewhat by facing solid opponents and thus earning ranks backs, but that got shot to death when SF got an influx of players at the start of week 3 which blasted our already artificially low scores even further down, thus creating the T8 sinkhole everyone is fussing about, but that does not change the fact that Glicko is accurate that SF is 300 points ahead of ET and FC.

I realize that I may have put up a large post, but I don’t have a TL;DR for you to read. You should go and read what others have said and inform yourself on the situation and maybe see what Glicko does and how it works.

Linkisdead.9647:

Ungood everyone knows Glicko has a blind spot for tier 8. If you’re claiming its the right and correct system then you also have to think this is the correct match up, right?

Are you really trying to entertain that the system used by pretty much every PvP game on the market (or they use a variant of the Glicko system) can’t tell that SF is supposed to out-man ET and FC?

Please, tell me another one.

The reason why Glicko is failing T8 is because of all that months old stuff that Detharos is going on about that you can’t figure out why.

Detharos I’m not sure why you’re going on about Kain or other stuff from months ago

Detharos.3157:

The problem with creating a numerical floor is, you would have to create a numerical roof as well for ratings to not get sucked up into higher tiers, and probably end up having to create a numerical floor and roof for every single tier from tier 8 all the way to tier 1.

Which would probably be a great long-term permanent solution to balancing tiers quickly if done like that, but I’m sure the servers that are proud of their bloated ratings would detest such a proposal and spam all kinds of ridiculous complaints on the forums, so rather its probably better just to stick to fixing tier 8 only at this time. :/

Heck, having “Rating roof” alone in every tier rather than a “rating floor” might actually work also.

You have 2 Problems:

The first is that Transfers Artificially Altered the numbers.

This may have given a vastly low number to T8 specifically, because as a server that got an influx of people went to pull out, it would have had to start at where Glicko thought it was, and then pound till it pulled out, as Glicko corrected where it belonged. In this case, it’s first pull out is the hardest, and as such, T8 takes the largest hit.

Had they not had free transfers, the Glicko system would have been better, and the numbers may have been inherently closer or at least reflect where some tiers should be.

To give that real numbers: ET and FC are now rated at 600 point worlds. However, a good chunk of their damage was done by Kaineng puling out, hence why SF lost 150 points when they came here at first. Had Kaineng not received an influx of serious WvWvW players, then FC and ET would be hovering much higher and SF would not have taken the loss it took upon coming here.

So, the reality is, ET and FC might be closer to 800 even 900 point worlds, which would mean that SF is really a 1200 point world, but, because of the Transfers damage was done. Now many worlds might be also affected by this, but because they can move down and up, they can be rectified faster as they face different and new opponents, ET and FC can’t, because they can’t move about.

The Second Problem is lack of Options. We only have 24 worlds, and need to make up teams of 3. That means the top 3 worlds will fight, no matter how lop sided that match is, the bottom 3 will fight, again, no matter what or how imbalanced they are.

Same for worlds 4,5,6, or 19, 20, 21. They will fight, no matter how lop sided the score is, and because it is a code doing the work, it does not take into account the effects of tedium on a score, or anything else. Just World 21 will fight World 19 and 20. End of discussion.

So build better matches, Glicko needs more worlds to work with, and more stability among those worlds for things to work their way out.

A floor, would be a type of fix, but more a band aid then a fix. They really should have stuck with the plan to re-set everything after the free transfers were done, and that would be best solution.

Why they really chickened out on that, no one knows but them, but I personally feel that they really dropped the ball doing so.

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

I entirely understand your sentiment though, especially when it’s been as consistent as it has for several weeks; trust me when I say you’re not the only ones who get the most out of WvW you can by negating the less lucrative/risk investment areas. And maybe I would get bored of it, I just know I had much more fun in WvW when we were losing, than lately when we have been winning.

I don’t mind fighting to the last against hopeless odds IF it has a point to it, my death count can attest to that. I’ll give you an example, when we took the SF BL Keep, we had a good force (a full 5 people) stay behind to hold the keep as long as we could, so that everyone that was there could suffer though that jump puzzle of a vista point (It was rather funny watching it rain Norn and Charr)

But in that case, yah, I fought to my last, and a few times over to keep SF out for our fellow server and guild mates to get their needed Poi’s and stuff. But, that was because I had a reason.

The truth is, the outcome of every week is.. SF wins. So, lets be real here, there is zero point in fighting you guys unless it’s going to be either a fun fight or a worthwhile one.

But to stand around waiting at a keep for SF to finally overrun us when we could be doing something fun or worthwhile? Why that is as lame as camping the jumping puzzle. Pass on that.

katz.8376:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Culling is god-awful lately, ever since they issued that last “fix” it has gotten much worse…with that said I always add 5-10 people over what I see. So if you say not more than 35 I surely will take your word…Once I physically see more than 25 tags I assume at least 30-35 people are there.

The point being is that 25-30 people on one map (for the lowest 3 servers) is a fairly substantial number of participants.

if you see an ET zerg, and you count 20 people… culling is probably not lying to you. most of the time we don’t pop orange swords on the map, which means we absolutely positively cannot have more than 25 people in that fight.

just sayin’

I gotta say, the change to the Orange Swords have totally opened my eyes as to the real deal of our forces, and it’s now a joke to me to hear some making a claim about a 25+ man ET Zerg.

EnRohbi.2187:

And I’m posting on a tier 8 thread because it’s in a public WvW forum for the entire game, and I have input to give.

Input from someone who admits to having no understanding of the situation, sounds like a train wreck in the happening.

King Amadaeus.8619:

I played on ET, there is no great population difference on SF. I cannot (again, as I have said) really speak to FC with no prior knowledge.

Well. You have not been paying attention then. Maybe it was due to the fact that Orange Swords came up anytime, or what have you, that gave the illusion of having forces.

But, SF vastly outnumbers ET and FC. but maybe, the issue was, that did not mean they always won.

I ate a zerg ball to the face when I took this Screen Shot, as you can see, I was not alone in being stomped.

But even tho, ET was vastly out numbered, that did not mean we lost. Perhaps it is those moments as you reflect back that have distorted what you think you saw, with what was really there.

The top one was after we started to fight back, the bottom one was when they first hit. Reverse order, because something got messed up when I tried to upload them.

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

I completely understand this. I would be going kitten crazy if I was on your server. As much as I want to destroy you guys it is only because you are technically the enemy while we are in this matchup. If you ever visit my town I will buy you a beer! (or whatever you drink or don’t drink, etc.)

Anytime. It’s just about doing the best you can with what you have. No good, no evil, just a bunch of gamers trying to have some fun with what we are handed.

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

What a defeatist attitude. I enjoy coming up with new strats to capture keeps/camps quickly against much larger numbers. You’re absolutely right that it’s not your responsibility to entertain other people; but if you aren’t entertained by improving against a stronger force (especially the mindless PVDoor zergs that our masses seem to sport lately), then I feel bad for you. Those are the highlights of the game for me (or were when we weren’t top of the tier, I don’t get to experience that much anymore.)

ET and FC are always accepting more people to join our ranks, if you think you can do better, you are more then welcome to come on down and show us how it’s done.

Personally, and I am not trying to be rude, but our commanders and players have been doing this now for quite some time, I myself have been doing this for roughly 7 weeks straight, and I think I learned when to hold ’em and when to fold ’em.

I am sure, you too will realize futility as it stares you in the face when the torch light goes on. But if you think I am a deafest, bring the whole guild if you think it will make a difference, and lets see how long you last.

King Amadaeus.8619:

I was mainly just talking about how you guys come out of the woodwork with a sizable zerg almost out of no where and then randomly disappear leaving us to cap it back with nearly no defense. Just odd that so many leave the map at once, wasn’t sure if something is going on in the ET BL that is drawing them away or what.

It’s pretty easy to figure out really. You are pulling people from LA, and getting your forces together to overrun us, so, when the Out-Manned Buff pops up, that’s the clue to pretty much call it done, because the reality is, with how painful SF can out man us, any efforts to cap or defend at that point will be futile and wasted.

Not at all to be rude, but I don’t WvWvW to entertain other people, so, once I see that we are about to be steamrolled, what’s my motive to stay around?

What’s anyone’s motive? Give SF some free badges?.. Anyone for AC?

zamalek.2154:

I feel for you guys, question is: how do ANet fix it? Separate ranking system for T7- ? Glicko works, extremely well, for T6+.

Free Transfers caused many numbers to be artificially altered, So, without redoing anything, the best option at this point would be for Anet to stick to their guns with their plan to reset everything after free transfers ended.

While a bit late now, it would better then letting things sit as they are.

Within a month everyone will be where they belong or close to it.

Jeknar.6184:

XxNuggetxX.7823:

I beleve our BL is untouched because we have priority on our BL. Being a commander in FC if i ask for help in our BL other commanders and there followers WP in from other BL/EB. ( just yesterday i asked for backup at our BL as in my post above and 3 commanders turned up saying “nugget, i got 20 ppl where do you need us?”). On the other hand yesterday ET had 30+ ppl in our BL while ETBL was turning green. if they had been in their BL it may have stayed blue.

I’ve tried to make ET play defense… I’ve failed miserably…

Yah, 3 vs 50 normally ends poorly

Zen.1965:

Ungood if you illustrated that point and were attacked for “making us feel bad about winning” then I apologize, it shouldn’t have been the case. Manoa’s post is extremely on point and illustrates the sort of “experiential” aspect of this current match up. If you echoed the same sentiments then there is no justifiable reason for someone to “attack you” for anything. You simply accurately described the reality of the situation.

In that sense too, Manoa’s post should be taken into great consideration by us afflicted by our current match up condition. As they say, ET and FC’s enemy is SF. SF’s enemy is Glicko.

About a month ago I tried to explain that ET and FC were not going to be SF’s opponent, and that because of the math system, SF would end up fighting their own numbers on the Glicko System.

I even tried to explain how to game the system to pull ahead when a plateau was hit, which I figured would happen, that was not well received to say the least. So, since I didn’t see the point in trying to talk to people who won’t want to listen, and I can’t change other people to want to listen. I changed the only thing I could, and that was the way I approach WvWvW.

So, with that said. Bring it on, We will fight you Invader, we will fight you till the last drop of blood.