Guild Wars 2

rahuri.7048:

I wasn’t aware people actually used this feature.

It’s really cool when you first start, then you quickly discover that it’s dead ended as there is very limited full sets (Cook, Pirate, Crook?) or silly things like Boxing Gloves that are totally out of place, which is why I think most people stop using it in short order.

Gisei.5749:

Ungood.3054:

Not to be rude, but I can’t want for a real opponent that will be able to actually challenge us without just mindlessly steamrolling us.

Then you have a long wait ahead of you. ET is after all, the weakest server WvW wise. Even if SF moves up a Tier, our replacement will likely be too strong for T8.

As of Feb 1st, SF’s rating was in the 800s, and ET’s in the 600s. Henge of Denravi, just above SF, has a rating of 1k+. If we somehow replace them in T7, they will likely steam roll ET and FC just as SF does.

I believe it would be better to hope for improvements in ET, rather than hoping a weak server drops to T8.

Greetings and Well Met fellow Tier 8 player.

Normally when I see a post like this, I try to grasp what their message is, more then simply getting wrapped up in words, like “weaker” and some such.

Which brings me to what you have put on the table. If I have read this right, you have made 2 points:

The first, is that your only earning 800 points, if I have read that right, what you are trying to express that even tho you seem to be doing better then an army that is a quarter to a fifth your size, you are still not doing anywhere near well enough to move up to a Tier 7 world, nor do you have means to hold your own against them.

In that regard, you may very well be correct. It is after all your own doing that you ended up here in Tier 8 with us, simply because you could not hold a place in any higher Tier world.

As for your second Point about Improving the Armies of ET. While maybe this was not your intention, but for all intents and purposes what you have put rather bluntly, is that it is ET needs to be the one to pull out of Tier 8 if they want a new opponent because SF will simply not be able to do so.

I would have to say good sir, that I do not disagree with you, but none the less I would rather a new opponent then the stagnant match up we have right now. No insult meant, but fighting you is become rather monotone, when you out number us 5 – 1, it is not a matter if we will lose, but how long we will last and how many of you will die in the process.

DeathPanel.8362:

Ungood.3054:

Fay.2735:

Why can’t everyone just be satisfied that 85% of the game (an MMO at that) is doable solo??

The same could be said,

Why should anyone have a problem if someone wants to do a dungeon solo?

It does not cause you physical pain nor does it rob you of money if someone wants to play solo in an MMO so why does anyone have a problem with it.

Because there are some jerks out there that think that everyone needs to play by their rules or not at all.

No doubt that they exist, but their existence their battle cry is won’t change simply because ArenaNet designed dungeons so that players can pick their party size from 1 to 5.

Fay.2735:

Why can’t everyone just be satisfied that 85% of the game (an MMO at that) is doable solo??

The same could be said,

Why should anyone have a problem if someone wants to do a dungeon solo?

It does not cause you physical pain nor does it rob you of money if someone wants to play solo in an MMO so why does anyone have a problem with it.

MaRko.3165:

Many people that know them find them easy and most that don’t find them hard to impossible. Are they going to be made easier or harder?

That all depends. Mostly on what they are there for in the 1st place and why would anyone want to bother with them.

This a great point!

Vasham.2408:

Ungood.3054:

Vasham.2408:

Vasham.2408:

No

Sincerely, The Guild Wars 2 community

Ungood.3054:

Yes

Sincerely the Guild Wars 2 Community.

I would say a player speaking for the community against easy dungeons cares more for the game’s future than a casual.

I would say you don’t speak for me, or the community as a whole, so don’t act like you do.

I don’t need to speak for you since as a casual you void your right to opinion.

Wow.. Reading fail.. but +1 on the troll!

katz.8376:

Vasham.2408:

Ungood.3054:

Yes

Sincerely the Guild Wars 2 Community.

I would say a player speaking for the community against easy dungeons cares more for the game’s future than a casual.

how do you know he’s casual?

Nooooooo My covers blown!

Ok you got me, yes, I logged 300+ hours my first month, and am decked in full exotics including weapons and have over 300 kills in WvWvW. I admit it.

Gosh don’t take away my casual badge.. no.. no.. I’m smelting…….

Vasham.2408:

Vasham.2408:

No

Sincerely, The Guild Wars 2 community

Ungood.3054:

Yes

Sincerely the Guild Wars 2 Community.

I would say a player speaking for the community against easy dungeons cares more for the game’s future than a casual.

I would say you don’t speak for me, or the community as a whole, so don’t act like you do.

Yes

Sincerely the Guild Wars 2 Community.

MaRko.3165:

Its actually rare to find a game where this sort of kitten tat argument is not happening.

‘Gifted’ players want more challenge and not-so-good players want less.

I’d just finished the ‘Mass Effect’ series before starting this game. Gosh what a novel concept – they catered to EVERYONE. While I played at ‘adept’ and found that setting about perfect for my style and abilities there was much more difficult and WAY easier modes available to play.

This game makes it very easy to cater to the ‘hard core crowd’ – simply don’t gear up a <insert not-so-popular profession here> and see how ‘challenging’ and ‘effective’ the game is then. There are surely LOTS of ineffective professions and gear to chose from.

The less inspired players simply don’t have many options. The encounters are designed so that you WILL FAIL on your first few attempts (or all your attempts if you don’t recognize what you may need to do or bring (if you have the coin or skill points to have those options available to you) or have someone explain the encounter or watch some instructional videos on it).

I fail to see why obviously gifted players would even care if the content were made more accessible to <insert less popular/effective profession(s) here> and game play challenged players – unless of course they somehow expect to NOT steamroll through content outfitted with the best DPS professions and gear. (face palm)

In a Word- Vanity.

That is why ‘gifted’ gamers come to mainstream games and then make a fuss that everyone should not be allowed to have what they have, play the content they are playing, and enjoy the game as much as they feel they alone should be entitled to, because, they are ‘gifted’

You can’t cater to them either, because if you make a game so hard that only the gifted players can play it, they won’t stay around, because they want to feel special, and if everyone is as skilled as they are just to play the game, they don’t feel better then everyone else, and they will move on to more mainstream games where they get to feel ‘gifted’ again.

Difficulty setting have already found their way into MMO’s, and as time goes on, it seems that any MMO that is not willing to do that will find that this problem of balancing content will plague them.

Looking at this.

The main problem is they have too many Tiers which makes for little to no rotation.

If they culled it down to 3 tiers, and increased the rotation, there would still be lopsided battles, but, if you set it up such that no one faced the same worlds two weeks in a row, it would mix things up nicely and keep things fresh.

Lucky Shot admits that the people in SF were crushed and their spirit broken due to being required to face off against superior force, and that was mostly likely due to being rutted into facing the same people week in and week out.

Anet needs to fix the stagnation of the system first. So if you merged tier 1, 2, then, 3, 4, 5, and then 6, 7, 8, That would mix things up nicely, and would give worlds the ability to see how they really stack up against a larger sampling of opponents.

Or just my feelings on it. All I know is. facing the same people week in week out, when it’s a grossly unmatched situation is lame.

Sand Beagle.9867:

2v2, 3v3, 5v5 deathmatch with custom arena maps would be great. i’d like to see some 5v5 and 8v8 CTF as well. 1v1 i dont think will ever be popular since it only favors a few select builds and classes and will never be competitive.

The best thing ever would be the creation of a very large CTF map maybe twice the size of foefire that could accommodate up to 32 players (16v16), complete with trebs, cannons, fully defendable bases (similar to foefire), and even maybe an underwater region in the middle of the map that gives short-cuts/alternate routes to each base.

With CTF the guardians could bunker, the warriors could 100b, the mesmers could portal (maybe need some restrictions), etc etc. Everyone would be happy. I think CTF, while probably less competitive in a “hardcore esports” sense, is a lot more accommodating and balanced for each class, as in there is something for everyone, and you arent forced into a specific build or playstyle. Plus who doesnt love CTF in games?

This already exists, it’s called World Vs World.

I know I would play PvP more if you could pick the size of the fight, IE: 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 5v5.

Just saying.

Well Last night was Fun.

Upon reset, Our valiant and Tenacious heros and commanders at ET gathered up and began to stampeded though the Borderlands, and the Battlegrounds.

By 10 PM EST, when I had to call it quits, due to real life weak kneed demands like needing sleep, ET was pushing first place, turned most of the map red, as far as we cared.

The three way collision in Stonemist was a blast, but I wills say, while Nothing against the people at SF or FC, but.. really. It was a large Oh these guys again yawnfest for me as I saw that nothing changed in the matchups.

Most of us, myself included were just in the running for the thrill of the kill, and the bodied that littered the fields in our wake were testament to that fact, as we not only beat back FC zergs, we contested and overcame SF Zergs at the same time. Truely a Testament to the Ferocity of ET’s legions! (albeit small legions, but legions none the less)

It was fun to watch FC and SF zerg blitz into each other on our borderlands as well. Just saying.

As for the question of if we are sleeping. yah. Pretty much I would wager so, In fact, most days we can at best field around 20 people in a battle grounds at prime time, and on Friday reset I think we may have hit over the 40 mark, as we had not one, but two legions rampaging about.

That feat alone was cause for much celebration and inebriation, you are welcome from PK.

Anyway, I would like to be able to say I am looking forward to another week of facing off against you both, but, sadly, I am not.

It’s been the same stagnant and lopsided match up for the last few weeks, and while some battles here and there have been fun we at ET are painfully out numbered on both coasts, but more so by SF, and while I have nothing personal against any of you, the overwhelming numbers you field turn most of the events into a bland and boring mindless overrun.

Even tho it is thrilling to decimate you in glorious battle in the borderland, when we can field a decent size force, but no offence it’s gotten to the point where I was like Oh you guys again. Not to be rude, but I can’t want for a real opponent that will be able to actually challenge us without just mindlessly steamrolling us.

And, the truth is, It can’t be helping you guys either to face a force that is a fraction of your size, as you’re not learning how to really handle yourself against a comparable opponent.

Tinni.4351:

Ungood.3054:

So let it go. If you want to have a discussion, make an effort to make a point and not a personal attack.

That’s rich coming from a guy who made an entire post that’s full of nothing but personal attacks.

I was polite to you, until you lacked the social graces to be polite back.

doesn’t matter if you are grouping or not when you are just messing around in PvE or WvWvW. You are there with other people or at least there is the potential for another person to be in the same zone as you. This is what makes GW 2 an MMO.

You are correct, The fact that this game gives mass expanses of land an entire world where we interact, that is what makes it an MMO.

The fact that you can ask as question and I can give an answer, the fact that you can buy my goods, and we can just walk by each other in the streets of lions arch or be standing next to each as dozens of people gather to slay a dragon.

That is what makes it an MMO.

In fact. the idea that I have people around me, that I can group with, or opt not to group with, is what makes it an MMO.

However, as soon as you enter an instance, you are in your own world and if you are not in a group, you are instantly in an a single player game.

Nope. I’m still in an MMO. I can STILL invite people if I want to. I can still chat on Guild chat, send Whispers, sell and buy on BL, and even send and receive mail, I did not go away into my own little world. I did not suddenly enter a single player game any more then if I logged on at a uncommon hour and went to a map zone that had no one in it. Or if I was killing mobs in a place no one seemed to go to, and because I am still pretty new here (only been playing a month) I tend to find quite a few vacant areas as I explore this game and I don’t feel like I left an MMO simply because I have not seen anyone for the last hour.

With that put out, I’ll say it again.

GW2 did not suddenly and magically become an MMO because I was forced to get 4 people to help me with a dungeon, it would not magically cease to be an MMO if I could have soloed said dungeon or done it with 3 people as opposed to 5.

In the end, while I personally enjoy grouping, always have really. Giving players choices, allows them freedom to play the game in a manner they will enjoy. If they are timid and don’t feel like joining groups they should not be punished, if they have a 3 person static group they should not be punished because they need 5. etc, etc. You get the idea.

Choices are good. Options are Good. That is why we have more then one class and more then one set of gear.

I would suggest giving DDO a shot to get a real good feel on how instance Dungeons can work, allowing people to solo or hit them with full groups, as they feel up to doing.

TL/DR. Having Options and Choices are Good.

RedStar.4218:

None of us are working at Anet, but for the purpose of this thread : how do you imagine a dungeon scaled for 1 player ? And don’t take an imaginary dungeon, take one that exists, from AC path 1 to Arah path 4.

Actually. At this point, I would not suggest modifying the existing paths and dungeons in GW2. They are pretty much established as they are.

I would simply suggest adding in perhaps additional paths to each dungeon that were “Easy mode” or “Small Group” designed which awarded less.

-OR-

Add in “Mini-Dungeons” designed for 1 – 3 people, and have them hard capped so that you could not enter if you had a group of more then 3 people.

You could even keep the theme going, like as opposed to A-Catacombs you make A-Crypts. Using the same maps, just new mobs, toned down. As opposed to Lt Kholer, you have Sargent Curbstomp.

The dungeons award the same as the 5 man dungeons, but also count towards the 5 man dungeons as far as DR goes. IE: Path 1 and Path 2 of A-Crypt count towards the DR of A-Catacombs Path 1 and Path 2.

They could even revamp fractals to fill this nitch, as opposed to touching the dungeons at all and have Mini-Dungeons in the Fractals, that relate to the World Dungeons so players could run a mini-AC or a Mini-CoE, etc, etc, That was just a quick, 1 – 3 person run, takes 5 min and awards like 10 tokens.

Tinni.4351:

I am sorry but if you cannot bring yourself to group for even that much, might I suggest a non-mmorpg?

I have a novel idea. How about you try to have a discussion without judgmental nonsense like this, after all, the last person who should be telling me how to play my game is someone who spent their GW1 life clinging to a Bot and their Brother because Socializing is Hard. mmm’kay

Now. Not to Website as on the Internet, but, I was leading 40+ man raids into the Planes of EQ before the idea of instance dungeons existed and I am sure many others who play this game can make the same claim, and I would not be surprised if they too would like to be able to log in and do a dungeon without needing to dredge up 4 yokels to make that happen. Simply because life changes in 10 years, You know, wife shows up, kids come into the mix, and some days you need to just get up and take care of the dog, and the rest of the group should not have to wait and watch you admire your sword for the next half hour or have to kick you out of the group.

Now, to also clue you in, Dungeons don’t come into play till your 30th, and here is the headliner, GW2 Did not suddenly and magically become an MMO because I had to invite 4 people I never met before to go do an instance dungeon, Nor would GW2 magically poof and cease to be an MMO if we could solo that instance.

So let it go. If you want to have a discussion, make an effort to make a point and not a personal attack.

Tinni.4351:

There was solo option in Guild Wars 1. It was called henchmen and they were never used in dungeons and high level missions because of the limited control you had over them. Come Nightfall, we go heros. You could customise everything on a hero. Their build, their gear, everything! What happened? MOST missions, dungeons and the likes were soloed with heros! Maybe two people (siblings, couples, long time friends) would group but most people didn’t.

Did you ever stop to wonder why?

I mean. Sure, we can say many things like “because they could” but maybe it was because in many MMO’s you simply have to many people with incompatible play styles and mind sets when it comes to how to play the game.

I mean look at the guy (vasham) above nerd raging about how he feels casuals ruined his game. You think any player that has a casual outlook towards games wants to deal with the likes of that?

You bet they would rather solo with a “hero” then deal with players that are simply not fun to play with.

As for comments in GW2LFM, all that is, is exclusion. In reality, waiting for a “Casual” group to fill is not fun, as I would wager most casual players don’t use GW2LFM, that is more for the serious player anyway, again, just another means of exclusion.

In the end, just because you give players the means to interact, does not mean it is a good idea to force them to interact. It is not fun waiting for groups to fill, it is not fun dealing with a ‘bad’ player, and given people can kick you mid dungeon, the last thing anyone wants to join some snot like the above nerd rager, and their cronies to get kicked at the end because they were not “hard core” enough for them.

Grouping should be something that is optional, and something that players do because they enjoy doing it, it pulls away from the game when you force it upon people.

It’s like having the freedom to enjoy a piece of cake or having it shoved down your throat.

RedStar.4218:

Ungood.3054:

I would like to correct this. There are several MMO’s that have instances that scale to the party size, and some MMO’s even have a Difficulty Setting on their Dungeon Instances.

Not every MMO is the same. You can’t compare the game mechanics of GW2 with Dungeons and Dragons and say that if it worked for D&D it will work for GW2.

First off: I was responding to Mirta who make the claim that no MMO designs dungeons for a single person. They are clearly wrong.

There are MMO’s that have their dungeons scale to the party size. This makes the game and it’s content more welcoming without making it a snore-fest.

Secondly: Yes you can compare the mechanics of one MMO to another, Players, Developers and Many MMO review sits do it all the time. It is a grand part of developing MMO’s to start with, as programmers and designers try to take the best and remove the worst of other MMO’s applying what was done well, to their next game, and improving or removing what was done poorly as well as trying to invent a few new things.

When the designers of GW2 discussed combat, they were looking for somethign between what AIon gives you and what Tera gives you. Hence the system they have in place today. It was built off of looking at how other MMO’s do it, and seeing what worked, what did not, and what may be the best solution overall. Now DDO has had active combat for the last 6 years, so GW2’ combat is not really intuitive or inventive, but they may have not looked at DDO’s combat system so they could very well think it was special in it’s own regard.

Which, like anyone, you know what you know. If you never played an MMO with Dungeon Scaling and Difficulty Settings, you would have no idea how they really worked and then make up all kinds of situations based on a lack of knowledge, and that of course would lead to the wrong conclusions being drawn.

In fact, it is the progressive nature of MMO’s and Humans in general to learn from what others have done, in both good and bad ways. That is the vast and important part of R&D, the Research side.

So you can bet sir, that you can very much so compare the game mechanics of DDO to GW2 and hypothesis if what worked for one could very well work for both.

Sounding out to SF and FC from ET.

New Guy here, I just got GW2 for Christmas (Well, wife said I could get it for Christmas at least, same thing really) and thus I just started playing in January, so all I have ever known as far as WvWvW has been the three of us.

Now, before GW2, I had zero understanding of what WvWvW was, I had played realms vs reams, where you pick a server and a side and that’s that, if Albion was steamrolling you with a zerg rush of 40 to your 2 on that server, then that was your fate. Deal. (Kudos to anyone that played DAoC and can remember the Albion Zergs)

So here I was, seeing this lop sided match, day after day after day. And I quickly started to accept that this game was pretty much going to be the same. I even got to the point where I wondered if there were only 3 american servers given how unbalanced things where.

Now, I;ll be honest, I don’t like needing to do Homework on a game, I like to log in and play. So I learned the basics, kill the Invaders/Defenders, get Supply, build the rams in the middle of the road, and beat mindlessly on the doors while we get stampeded from behind. (I jest! I jest!) but anyway, I really had no idea about rotating matchups.

So you can imagine how ecstatic I was when discussion of the number reset started, and I realized that, Wow, there are a lot of NA servers, and we will be facing new people this coming week. I can honestly say it seems to have brought new life into the WvW here on ET, where before it was all about just trying (and failing) to hold our own, as our own, it became “Lets have some out here!” so, yah. It’s been a blast to me as of late.

Well, I guess it has been a fun month for me, and this reset and new learning about the ladder and progression has been informative, I can say, I am thrilled to face a new opponent. While Ferg will be around for another week, so we will finally get to see how well we face against each other, without being ran over by SF, so that is something I am looking forward to. No offence to FC, but, because of the massive presence SF had on the map, you guys just kinda ended being those “other guys over there” if you took something from us, it was like, give it 10 min and SF will take it back. So to FC, I am looking for the coming week where you will come to your own, and we can meet together in glorious battle.

To SF, Well guys. I am not sure if you will be running off to make your mark in the top tiers or setting yourself up to get destroyed and dominated for the coming weeks. only time will tell. But, while I can’t say I will ever be able to feel bad at the prospect of you all getting steamrolled for the coming weeks (you can understand why) , my hope is that it tempers you and does not break you. in Eredon, while we may have lost a great deal, we seldom gave up. Fighting tooth and nail to the bitter end. And that kind of conflict can draw out the best in people, making them stronger, and building up their resolve to keep fighting no matter what the odds, it can also melt them down and break their spirit. In the coming weeks for you guys, I hope the fires of adversity forge you, not smelt you.

Give it a try and tell us how it goes.

pdfrod.1948:

Ungood.3054:

You do realize that “Challenging” and “Doable by everyone” are exclusive of each other right?

No, they are not. It’s challenging because people are required to learn how to play. Everyone can learn how to play.

Yes, I can see that new slogan now “Our Dungeons are so Challenging anyone can do it”

Thank you, I am going to make note that your stand is that a full set of Arah Gear is nothing but Noobolicious Trash Gear.

But I think you would be alone in that stand. But hey, it’s your time your are devaluing, not mine, as I don’t share your feelings on that.

None the less, I still think Dungeons should be removed from the Monthly requirement, or harder “other” stuff needs to be added in to balance things out.

pdfrod.1948:

They said that dungeons are supposed to be challenging, they didn’t say it’s not doable by everyone.

You do realize that “Challenging” and “Doable by everyone” are exclusive of each other right? I mean, really, process that for a moment, if Anyone can do it, it’s not a challenge, now is it?

But hey, if the point you are trying to make is that your fulls set of Dungeon armor and weapons are pointless and have zero value because any noob and casual can get it, then kudos. Keep it up.

Nothing is quite like hearing people devalue their own accomplishments.

pdfrod.1948:

Ungood.3054:

abelooi.9156:

Hmm, dungeons are designed to “not” be doable by everyone? Did I miss the memo by Anet?

Apparently, you did.

“Dungeons are huge, private adventure areas that only teams of high-level players dare explore. "

Feel free to see how they do not pitch their Dungeons as a Come one and All. https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/dungeons/

I’m I missing something? Where does it says that dungeons are “not” doable by everyone? Or are you saying that leveling a character is not doable by everyone?

Maybe the dynamic language is confusing. “Dare explore” Humm I guess, to some that equates to “Oh everyone just go on in and steamroll the place”

meh.

Niila Nuppunen.9875:

I find it amusing that people still refer to what anet “said” about dungeons during the pre-release era. When was that blog post released? 2010, 2011? I also remember reading something about the dungeons being for “groups with voice communication” or similiar lines, only for the best of the best. It seems that blog posts like this leave quite lasting impressions and beliefs among players as we have seen quite many opening posts like this concerning dungeon monthlies.

That would be, because they have not changed their stance in regards to Dungeons.

Gosh I would hope that the passing of time does not erode a designers stand on their game.

Draconus.9786:

Well after trying COF path 1 as recommended earlier, I can say it wasn’t very hard at all. Did all five runs for the monthly in under an hour. I only died a total of 4 times. So if a guy with no dungeon experience can pull it off just about anyone can. All it takes is learning the path and making sure to evade as much as you can.

No argument that anyone can be carried through a dungeon. Just tried s a CoF path 1.. was great till we had to get people to follow orders then no one could figure out how to stand next to a torch.

abelooi.9156:

Hmm, dungeons are designed to “not” be doable by everyone? Did I miss the memo by Anet?

Apparently, you did.

“Dungeons are huge, private adventure areas that only teams of high-level players dare explore. "

Feel free to see how they do not pitch their Dungeons as a Come one and All. https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/dungeons/

Fury.6281:

Edit: what loflux said is accurate. It does its job by making us experience different parts of the game that we otherwise may never try. The jumping puzzle monthly was an example of this.

That is my very point.

The Monthly is Designed to get Everyone to experience the game, a little check list of things to see and do if you will.

At the same time it has been made clear that the Dungeons are designed to not be doable by everyone.

It’s like making a list a things to see and do in New York, like Find the Empire State Building, Ride the Ferry, See the Statue of Liberty, etc, all simple easy things and then adding Run the Marathon to it and only those that complete the list get a cookie.

You don’t see the paradox there?

Mirta.5029:

But why would it be? In no game has the dungeons been for 1 man. No group project in reality scales down if you’re alone doing it.

I would like to correct this. There are several MMO’s that have instances that scale to the party size, and some MMO’s even have a Difficulty Setting on their Dungeon Instances.

Case in point, Dungeons and Dragons Online, has both of these features, where you can select a difficulty setting and the dungeon scales to the party size.

It is quite fascinating feature, and adds a whole grand dynamic to dungeon running, where upon a group that thinks they have what it takes, if they want to run elite content, the dungeon scaling requires that each player be of elite skill level as opposed to static dungeons that can have it where a few elite players can carry lesser skilled or geared players.

The difficulty setting allows players to go in on the skill level they feel comfortable at, and for some top players, they even try the easy modes first to learn the dungeons as well, as opposed a fixed system where some players and even teams are being pushed into the deep end of the pool and needing to play a game survival while trying to learn the dungeon and at the same time other players and elite teams are dealing with a total yawn-fest.

So yes. MMO’s do this. They have difficulty levels, and some have dungeon scaling. Takes a bit more work to make it happen, but in the end, it helps reach a wider demographic of players of different skill levels.

I mean don’t you wish some days that they had a “hard mode” or that If you had to short man it because your friend could not long in tonight, that the dungeon could understand and respond accordingly so you could still do Hard Mode and would not need to drop down to “Don’t Hurt Me Difficulty”

Fury.6281:

First off, it is 5 dungeons.

Moving on from there…
Dungeons are apart of the game! Just as much as gathering and crafting. It is the elite content that players are meant to be playing with their in-game free time to seek rewards and loot! Every game has time sinks, it’s how they survive. Don’t hate the monthly completing just because it makes you play content you are meant to be playing anyways!

Perhaps I should create a thread complaining about gathering, I mean I feel like it is such a waste of time to try and cut a tree or gather ore I have no use for! Oh never mind I won’t do that.. Cause it would be stupid..

Ok. Well, maybe they need to stop putting in the weak sauce requirements like gathering and just go back to requiring things like castle siege and WvW slayers.

I mean if they are going to require elite content that you should be doing, lets not mix the message. Lets make it the elite stuff, only the elite stuff you should be doing anyway.

My request is simply to not send mixed messages like equating gathering to running a dungeon.

If people can’t fathom that equating gathering to running a dungeon is sending a mixed signal, then maybe the real problem is there not enough elite dungeon quality level content that should be required to get a monthly.

So maybe the real answer is to not dribble down the requirements, and along with the Dungeons they should be require harder stuff, stuff like claiming a castle, getting 5 keeps, and slaying 50 people in WvW to make it clear that this is not for the faint or the weak.

After all, at the end of this last month I had a castle, 8 keeps, and over a 200 kill count (and this was my first month playing the game). So, I mean then it should be easy for the elite players who think Dungeons are too hard for little ol’ me. Right?

So, perhaps the problem is not that Dungeons are too hard, but that gathering is too easy and the two should not be mixed together.

I’ll leave that open to the developers, but I humbly ask that this mixed messages stop please.

Shimond.2478:

The monthly is supposed to be about variety of tasks, to get you out of your comfort zone and doing something different (I believe).

Actually I took the Monthly as a Suggestion by Arenanet for things to keep you busy and might be fun to do.

But even if I was to look it from your perspective of “lets try something new”

They should not then turn around and say “We Designed our Dungeons to Brutalize you, and force you fight tooth and nail for victory, this is not for the weak or lesser players”

I mean it’s fine that they made dungeons hard. in case you missed that, I have no problem with the intent that Dungeons are meant to difficult.

But in doing so, they should not then turn around and invite their player base to throw themselves at this task with the understanding they designed their dungeons defeat their efforts.

Thanks, but, I play this game every day, and I am in a great guild of amazing people, Dungeons are not a problem for me.

I am commenting on the paradox of putting something out that you expect everyone to do (monthly) and then including something on that list that was designed to be prohibitively hard to accomplish.

The only paradox I’m seeing here is that you claim dungeons are not a problem yet you claim this is also “prohibitively hard to accomplish”.

While I’ll most likely do CoF a few times, or AC or whatever, and just get my marks done, no big. That does not mean I should then turn a blind eye to something I see as not right and In this case, my issue is that they are sending a Mixed Message.

The Monthly is a “Fun Finder” something they invite their masses to go have fun doing to keep people occupied and doing stuff.

Their Dungeons are designed to be detrimentally hard to do, requiring timing, skill, gear, and know how to even attempt.

Putting the two of them together sends a very mixed signal.

Shimond.2478:

Crafting no, but underwater really is annoying for me.

You think dungeons are easy and yet have a problem with underwater kills?

Seriously?

JJBigs.8456:

Ungood. it used to be a req 50/50 kills for each regular monthly, in fact i have never ever completed a monthly due to this old requirement. I always wanted too, but never did WvW. I was so happy when i saw it was moved/removed

Kudos!

See. This is my point.

Sometimes, removing things that send mixed messages has a positive impact. In the end, players like yourself are happier for it, things get better overall and the game moves on.

Despite some protesters who feel the need to rally against it, we see that Change is Not always Bad.

XGhoul.7426:

I should have made a post ranting everytime there was a required WvW kill quota to complete for monthly.
/firstworldproblems

I find this odd, You have a separate WvW Monthly Accomplishment, why would anyone put a WvW quota in a generic monthly?

Zoophagous.2395:

Monthlies are not required. This isn’t a job, it’s a game. Play for your enjoyment not to chase gear or achievements.

Good hunting!

You know. The truth is, You are free to do or not do anything you like.

Now, maybe I missed the memo somewhere, but when it comes to games that have a means to progress in them, I like to, well, move forward along that progress line. hence why I bother to move around once I log in. I mean. Sure, I guess some people might be inclined to log in and then not do anything, or perhaps, just not do anything progressive in the game.

We are in fact not required to do anything, even the most basic stuff like level or even kill a single mob. Sure, you look at a game with that outlook and approach, however, people would tend to call that Watching TV, unless it’s the discovery channel, then you might learn something in the process.

While your game time, is of course, your own, to play as you like, when I log in it’s to progress somehow. Either by loot, levels, something. Otherwise, there really is no motive to log in. While you can log in and not do anything, I personally don’t see the point of approaching a game with that mentality.

Quests are meant to be done, land masses explored, mobs killed, gear acquired, and levels gained, are what playing an MMO is about.

But, that is not relevant.

What is relevant, is that everyone is given a nice monthly task to do, something to guide them in a direction in the game. Much like a Daily gives a player a motive to something today, a Monthly gives a player something to look forward to all month. Something, perhaps, easy, that can be accomplished by the majority of the players.

So if they put enough Personal Story in, to fill the monthly, then kudos. My point is settled, if they have not, then why do they even bother to make a Dungeon difficult to the point of being discouraging, then say “Come one and all you should do this several times this month”

It’s a weird mixed message that is being put out. Either they want everyone to enjoy dungeons or they don’t. I would imagine they want everyone to enjoy crafting, map exploration, killing mobs and gaining levels. Which is why they are not that hard to do and can be done solo in your free time as you can.

Dungeons however, are not the same, they require groups, and can be very difficult and discouraging, which is not a good combo for someone who is just trying to finish their monthly for a few paltry digital baubles.

Shimond.2478:

I dunno, to me it isn’t any different than having crafting or gathering (or underwater kills) being a part of dailies.

Really?

Not to be rude, but, do you mean to tell me that you need to get 4 other people to help you do your daily crafting and underwater kills because they are designed to be that hard and challenging?

That being said, story mode counts towards the monthly too, so there you go. Easy task to complete.

Thanks, but, I play this game every day, and I am in a great guild of amazing people, Dungeons are not a problem for me.

I am commenting on the paradox of putting something out that you expect everyone to do (monthly) and then including something on that list that was designed to be prohibitively hard to accomplish.

It seems my last post on this topic was worded poorly and my intent was lost in what appeared to be a vent. Ok. I admit. I did vent a bit. So I am going to try this again.

I have a disagreement with the Requirement of doing Dungeons in the Monthly Tasks.

Now. That does not equate to a problem with the dungeons themselves. I understand that the Developers wanted to make them hard, that they took pride and a mark of ego in making challenging content. That is fine, it is their game, and they can do what they please in that regard. In fact, making hard dungeons sends a clear message out to those seeking the challenge to rise up to them and tackle them.

It also sends the message that these Dungeons are not for everyone.

Ok. That last bit is very important. By making the Dungeons part of the Monthly, that is sending a message that they expect everyone to do them.

Thus, the Dungeons are for everyone.

See how that sends a very mixed signal to the games masses. Now I am fine with making prohibitively hard dungeons, if that is their claim to fame, and something they want to brag about, then cool, but, make it clear, that they are not for everyone.

Their inclusion in the Monthly Requirement means they are being Thrust upon Everyone and that is a very confusing and mixed message, because now everyone is expected to do them. You really can’t have it both ways.

I also feel that it pulls from the joy of doing a dungeon. No longer is doing a dungeon for the fun or challenge of doing, but now becomes an obligation or a chore to do, to get a Monthly Done.

Unlike gathering, which I do because it’s there and a part of the game, and lets be honest, it’s not really “fun” to gather, I mean, I don’t go “Wow. Hitting that Ore with a Pick axe was sooo exhilarating” ;-)

But anyway, I would like the requirement for Dungeons to be removed from the Monthly as it sends a very mixed message about what placement Dungeons have in this game.

CassieGold.7460:

Copain.1926:

I agree that not getting loot is a problem, but it’s ridiculous how many people just want baby mode dungeons. You’re upset because you have to learn a fight and have to learn how to stay alive, like it was intended. What you want is to just throw your body at it like a mindless zerg.

I’ll agree some fights are improperly tuned, but that should be fixed, not just letting you zerg a boss with no skill.

Here’s the thing for me: This is a TEAM effort. Everyone in the TEAM has their role to play. My complaint is that a member of my TEAM worked kitten hard, and the TEAM accomplished the goal…. but one member of the group is not getting the reward.

It’s not about throwing bodies at it, it’s not about zerging things down. I’ve had moments in a fight where I do things that are suicidal because it’s important…. Guardian GS skill #5 and drawing a room full of trash onto myself to keep an NPC alive because we needed a few moments of breathing room to get everyone else back into action…. I die, event succeeds. Great strategy? Maybe not, desperate strategy, sure, and successful.

Some times it’s a last damage spike from a boss that downs a player, sometimes the boss “likes” one player and chases them in circles and they can’t get clear of the thing. Some times you play well, and you still go down.

I’m going to be mean for a moment and quote Robert from a few months back:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Personally, I love that my content kills players and challenges them. I feel pretty kittenty though when my content beats someone into the ground and takes their lunch money. I at least want you to walk away with something more than a repair bill and some random blues, and folks here are working on that very thing.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/4-hours-of-Arah-EM-and-no-shards/first#post392172 <—- full post for context.

I’m fine with people dieing in the pursuit of victory. It happens, it is not a result of the dungeon being over-tuned and it is not always the result of a player having a L2P issue. But, I would like to see all players in the dungeon team be eligible for loot.

This is a great point. If the TEAM wins, then everyone on the TEAM should get the loot.

If a player makes a move, be it an act of valor to save the encounter at their cost of themselves, or even just did not dodge in time and bit the dust, in the end, when we walk in, we go in as a team. Thus every bit of loot should be open to every member on that team.

It is a wasteful and discouraging mechanic to require each team member to all hit the same mob, to get the loot. In fact, it rewards people for NOT taking a risk to save their team mate, after all, why should I stick my neck out to raise you and risk getting killed myself, as opposed to keep kiting this mob and get my loot. Sucks to be you for dying tho.

There is no question that this is a wrong mechanic, and I hope the developers look into is and fix it as it encourages people to let other party members die and to not risk themselves even if it would help the team, in fact the mechanic where a player who may have died gets no loot inspires selfish play as opposed to team play. I can hope that maybe the developers will see this problem and fix it.

Silidus.7985:

I don’t think that was the point.

The point is that when you have only 2 hours to yourself per night (per week), where there isn’t something WAY more important demanding your immediate attention, what would you rather do, play GW2 or read about GW2 (or watch someone else play GW2)?

This is exactly my point.

The truth is, most Mobs are not hard. They have a limited number of choreographed or staged moves, that once you learn what they are and how to avoid them, it starts the process of making the mob less and and less a threat. The counter this that GW2 put was a very tacky tactic of making the mobs mainly a Dodge or Die type of deal, which should have went away when we stopped playing games like Donkey Kong and our survival counted on more then a Joystick and a Jump button. In the case if GW2 we Auto attack and then Joystick and dodge button are pretty much the end of the encounter.

And while you are right, in that avenue, it is about skill, timing, and internet connection and that is mostly unaffected by how much playtime you have, again, it is also about having the time to practice and a group with the patience to allow you to learn. The reality is however, Neither of those things are easy to come by for most casual players.

I hate to say it, but a large part of being casual is simply that I don’t have the time to spend a part time job doing “research” just to have some fun. In fact the idea that I need to “study up” on how to play a game that I supposedly do to get away from the stress and frustration of life seems like an oxymoron in the purest sense. In fact, when you couple that with the idea that I am now forced to spend my “play time” IE: the time I have put aside and allocated to gaming, is now spent looking at how to do a dungeon seems to be the apex of exactly what “against the casual” gamer in every sens of the word.

Sorry Silidus, but while I loved your post, I sincerely could not tell if you were trying to toll by setting people up to fail and fail hard, or if you really were trying to be encouraging, but none the less, the reality is, to get good and know a dungeon well enough to be able run it in 20 – 60 min takes either a veteran group willing to carry you, or it takes a lot of time to practice getting good at it, and it’s the latter that by definition is exactly what “Casual” players are strapped for.