Guild Wars 2

Kasama.8941:

I feel like a few are misunderstanding this. Just because something is difficult, it doesn’t mean you are suddenly forced to play it. Even if open world mobs hit harder, you could still just chose to run past them.

Also, there’s a big difference between difficult, and annoying.

Running past mobs means no experience and no drops. I’m pretty sure that people want to play the game…even casuals. Making them run past a lot of stuff means they can’t level and why should they play.

Lose the casuals and there’ll be a whole lot less people playing this game.

If you like minipets you can waste it all on Orrian Jewelry boxes. There’s a risen priest of dwayna mini you can only get from there. You’re not, however, likely to get a whole lot more of value.

I use karma to outfit alts in exotic armor.

I’m still going through dungeons. Tonight, I tired Arah path 2 for the first time. We beat it, but it took a while. A long while. None of us had ever done that path before though.

I only need two more dungeon paths for my dungeon master title.

My view on the dungeons in this game is that they’re really not for everyone. Most dungeons aren’t hard enough for ultra competitive players and they’re not easy enough for casual players. Me, I’m somewhere in the middle, so they’re fine for me. Not my favorite content, but I do them mostly to help guildies.

In most games, dungeons aren’t my preferred area of play though. I must prefer the open world.

I think people from Ulan Bator, Mongolia should have their own server. Maybe Austin, Texas too.

/thread

ThiBash.5634:

Vayne.8563:

So how long after Rift launched was it before Trion added player housing? It’ll get here when it gets here.

Except it was firts promised to be in the game, then promised to be added really soon. Then we hear they’re not even working on it, and we’re still waiting.

Ummm, no. They never promised Guild Halls or player housing would be in at launch. The ONLY reference to it is that one Martin Kerstein quote from Guru, in which he replied that they’d come at the same time, most likely in an expansion.

marnick.4305:

Vayne.8563:

morrolan.9608:

Vayne.8563:

People keep using the word promise. An intention is NOT a promise. Let me give you an example.

They sold the game on these ‘intentions’.

Actually that’s not completely true, since MOST of the stuff in the manifesto and that they spoke about are actually in the game. Everything about dynamic events was gone into in great detail long before the game was available for sale.

What people did was they watched the manifesto, maybe a couple of trailers, did no research and then went and said, they sold the game only on this.

First of all, that’s all a manifesto is. A stating of intentions. It’s the definition of the words. And since MOST of what they said is in the game…well, they sold the game on intentions, most of which they’ve already fulfilled and some of which can still be fulfilled in the future.

Who are you trying to convince? You’re spot on with the promise vs intention rhetoric but we both know people dishonestly call things a promise to get angry in the first place.
We all know those people who force us into an impossible promise, only to be angry when we can’t keep it. I don’t like it when people do that to me, don’t like it when they do it to others.

What I like even less are when people use the word “lie”, which I’ve seen far to often. To lie, you must intend to deceive. Changing your mind isn’t a lie. A change in circumstances that makes you do something you didn’t intend to is not a lie either.

People just like to make things as dramatic as possible.

Snowy.9580:

In all fairness, the “I swung a sword, I swung it again, hey! I swung it again. That’s great, we just don’t want players to grind in GW2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We wanna change the way that people view combat.” remark no longer applies.

The new version is…
“I rolled, I rolled again, hey! I rolled again. That’s great, we just don’t want players to fight like knights and warriors of old in GW2. No one enjoys realism. No one finds it fun like super mario. We wanna change the way that people view combat and make them roll about in full plate armour like they are a ballerina.”
;)

That’s pretty funny actually. Not particularly representative of the game I’m playing, but yeah. Anyway I think it’s very realistic when I summon clones and blow them up, pretty much like the knights of old. lol

morrolan.9608:

Vayne.8563:

People keep using the word promise. An intention is NOT a promise. Let me give you an example.

They sold the game on these ‘intentions’.

Actually that’s not completely true, since MOST of the stuff in the manifesto and that they spoke about are actually in the game. Everything about dynamic events was gone into in great detail long before the game was available for sale.

What people did was they watched the manifesto, maybe a couple of trailers, did no research and then went and said, they sold the game only on this.

First of all, that’s all a manifesto is. A stating of intentions. It’s the definition of the words. And since MOST of what they said is in the game…well, they sold the game on intentions, most of which they’ve already fulfilled and some of which can still be fulfilled in the future.

morrolan.9608:

Leo G.4501:

MeveM.7913:

“I swung a sword, I swung a sword again Hey! I swung it again, that’s great”

Do you remember the teaser for GW2 before it’s release? Where Colin Johanson said the above line?, well, isn’t that exactly what we’re doing in the current model?

The context of that quote has nothing to do with auto-attacks. It had to do with basic questing models and progression.

So whats the full quote?

The full quote:

“When you look at the art in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s visually stunning. I’ve never seen anything like that before,’ and then when you play the combat in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.’ In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

It’s about the boring grind to get to the fun stuff. In Guild Wars 2 you don’t have to hit max level to get a world class boss. You can find them in the starter zones. That’s what he’s talking about. He’s talking about the stuff you do at lower levels is the same stuff you do at higher levels.

In most games, you have to level fast as you can to get to raids. In Guild Wars 2, you can level at any pace you want and find cool stuff to do.

You may personally not think the stuff is cool…but many people do.

How anyone can think this means there’ll be no grind at all in the game, particularly when in other interviews they said there would be grind for people who wanted to grind, and particularly because there was grind in Guild Wars 1…I just don’t know why people continually want to take this quote out of context.

morrolan.9608:

tigirius.9014:

Milennin.4825:

Strange, didn’t know they removed the blogs. Maybe to prevent people from digging up old ‘promises’ they made in some of them (such as account-wide dyes).

And here I thought I was the only person to notice those things.

No you’re not the only one, I brought it up in a thread a week or 2 ago and yes the only reason I can see to do it is to remove what they might consider ‘outdated’ promises.

People keep using the word promise. An intention is NOT a promise. Let me give you an example.

I promise I will get you a dog for your birthday.

That’s a promise.

Saying you want to get a dog for someone’s birthday, and then something comes up and you don’t isn’t a promise. A promise is more like a guarantee.

But then you have Anet saying, all along and out loud, that they are a company that iterates. That they often scrap stuff and start over. That sometimes things they think will work don’t work and they pull them from the game.

Anet has said all these things. They even had an entire blog post about how they operate as a company, all about iteration. The word iteration or iterate was used in more than 90% of their blog posts. My wife and I used to joke about it.

So where they breaking promises when they said they wouldn’t have vertical progression in the game, or were they breaking promises when they said they iterate and often try different things?

Edit: I’d keep in mind they spoke about iteration and iterative style of development a WHOLE lot more than they spoke about vertical progression.

BadHabitZz.1856:

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

Some guy did it in his spare time, part of his hobby. Are you really going to tell Anet employees they have to work on the game in their downtime?

Originally, we just wanted to build out a couple sprites to fake the game in After Effects, but one of the cinematic artists on my team (Delly Sartika) has long harbored an interest in building his own retro platformer, so he volunteered to build out a playable version of our totally fake game.

The version that you see in the commercial was just the first draft. It took Delly about three weeks of work to flesh out the final version. Without further ado, I present the fully realized vision of Rytlock’s Critter Rampage, which I invite you all to play. Good luck, and try not to smash your keyboard in a fit of rage.

No where in that post does it say he did it in his/her free time? I’d really love to know where you get your inside info?

I liked SAB as a mini game, but i totally can see why players would be mad at what they see as wasted time on this, over potential serious fixes to the game.. especially in its current condition..

Ah, my bad on this one. The SAB thing was done in some guys’ spare time. This one is a bit different.

The guy who did this is a member of the cinematic’s team. He’s not going to be making new content. He’s making cinematics for content that other people program. Which means that until his talents are called upon to do cinematics, he probably has quite a bit of down time.

At any rate, this entire conversation is bizarre. What is a cinematics guy going to do all by himself? He’s not doing profession balance. He’s not making dungeons.

Admittedly I was still thinking about people complaining about SAB (in an interview the guy said he did it in his spare time), but anyway it’s ridiculous.

The OP wants new context from a guy who does cut scenes.

Edit: This is what I get for answering posts at 3 am. I’m going to bed. lol

Still very odd how you have so much info on Anet staff, like inside info, you speak as if you know each and every one of them personally..

Astroturfing comes to mind.

Vayne is obviously undercover Anet stuff

Obviously. Except that I live in Australia and as far as I know they don’t have anyone employeed here. They probably should hire me as the Australian community manager. lol

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

Milennin.4825:

Strange, didn’t know they removed the blogs. Maybe to prevent people from digging up old ‘promises’ they made in some of them (such as account-wide dyes).

I’d go with this theory until someone proves otherwise.

Because it’s easier to go with a completely unproven theory than to not judge. Says tons.

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

They are big, and full of details, and.. no reason to ever look at anything twice save the craft stations and banker/trader.

So much wasted opportunity. So many meaningless NPCs.

I get that Anet thinks they needed to totally abandon anything but the DE, but, these huge detail and NPC filled cities are crying for a few exploration, fetch, and information questlines, if only to encourage people to find all of the neat stuff created by the Art people.

Whether or not the cities are “wasted opportunity” really depends on what they were designed to be.
They certainly would be failures if ArenaNet meant for people to concistently visit them.
But perhaps they were just designed to be places to explore, give you decent places to roleplay, or simply to make the world feel more alive from an aesthetic point of view.

But either way it is a design philosophy that I never really understood. Lion’s Arch is no different than any of the other cities, so why is it designed to be the main city? Why not have all of those features available in all majore cities so people have the option to choose where to go to, rater than being forced to be in one specific location.

Lion’s Arch was designed to be the central city for lore reasons. It’s the first place in your personal story where all the races come together. It’s not owned by any race, but rather a melting pot of all races.

Your racial city is really only used, for the most part, for early personal stories and your home instance.

There are some advantages in having everyone in on hub. If you had Lion’s Arch and five starting places, you’d have to divide the player base in six, and none of the cities would likely feel very crowded.

Anyway, this happens in every game. Even if the game doesn’t do it, the players will. In Guild Wars 2, Kamadan became the main market city and pretty much everyone went there to buy and sell.

Believe me, no one really went to Kamadan for convenience. It offered the same stuff as all the other cities.

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

Some guy did it in his spare time, part of his hobby. Are you really going to tell Anet employees they have to work on the game in their downtime?

Originally, we just wanted to build out a couple sprites to fake the game in After Effects, but one of the cinematic artists on my team (Delly Sartika) has long harbored an interest in building his own retro platformer, so he volunteered to build out a playable version of our totally fake game.

The version that you see in the commercial was just the first draft. It took Delly about three weeks of work to flesh out the final version. Without further ado, I present the fully realized vision of Rytlock’s Critter Rampage, which I invite you all to play. Good luck, and try not to smash your keyboard in a fit of rage.

No where in that post does it say he did it in his/her free time? I’d really love to know where you get your inside info?

I liked SAB as a mini game, but i totally can see why players would be mad at what they see as wasted time on this, over potential serious fixes to the game.. especially in its current condition..

Ah, my bad on this one. The SAB thing was done in some guys’ spare time. This one is a bit different.

The guy who did this is a member of the cinematic’s team. He’s not going to be making new content. He’s making cinematics for content that other people program. Which means that until his talents are called upon to do cinematics, he probably has quite a bit of down time.

At any rate, this entire conversation is bizarre. What is a cinematics guy going to do all by himself? He’s not doing profession balance. He’s not making dungeons.

Admittedly I was still thinking about people complaining about SAB (in an interview the guy said he did it in his spare time), but anyway it’s ridiculous.

The OP wants new context from a guy who does cut scenes.

Edit: This is what I get for answering posts at 3 am. I’m going to bed. lol

I agree with this…to a point.

At this time I have 6 80s…but I only geared up one of them for “end game” content. Actually I have one character for dungeons, one for WvW, one for open world just running around, and a few I use more rarely.

The thing is, you don’t really have to have BIS gear to do end game content in Guild Wars 2 (except for really high level fractals, which I’m not ever likely to do anyway. I’m up to level 19 now).

I can run any dungeon in the game on any of my 80s, without ascended gear. Stuff like exotics is relatively easy to get with karma, or just dungeon runs.

Coopziana.1802:

well in all fairness if he’s got spare time then why not read the forums for suggestions he could potentially take to his team give us what we want.

Because it’s, get this HIS free time. He’s doing something HE enjoys on his free time. How would you feel about someone telling you what to do on YOUR free time?

I know you’re off today, but maybe you should work anyway, for free. He did something fun, because he wanted to. Why anyone should have a problem with this is beyond me.

I think Anet does need to tweak drop rates. I don’t think they should go nuts, but this is definitely something I think they should look at.

Kain Francois.4328:

Difference between WoW and the GW1 “trinity” is the fact in late GW1 you could customize your own team of AI with completely team-centered builds.

You could not judge a build in GW1 without looking at a the team as a whole.

In GW2, all the AI heroes’ functions are compressed into the player itself, so they are unnecessaty.

I agree with this complete. In fact, I’d go as far to say that Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trinity at all. You didn’t require a tank, and there was no taunt mechanic to hold aggro. Tanking was specialized and optional, particularly in PVe.

In all my years playing, I can’t ever remembering using a tank in Guild Wars 1.

I like challenge sometimes, but on my own schedule. When I want to be challenged, I go do more challenging content. A lot of the time I just want to relax and enjoy the world.

There should be a massively hard zone you could go to, but again the problem is, I don’t think most people would go there, unless the rewards were amazing. And I don’t see that happening.

Mastruq.2463:

Vayne.8563:

Daharahj.1325:

Kaizer.7135:

A lot of people (including myself) prefer that there be no trinity, it saves time on making groups since you don’t have to wait for specific classes that nobody likes playing, well, except for a few (monks).

Then how do you explain advertisements like “need 1 more mesmer” or “only warriors”?

The loss of the holy trinity has its pros and its cons, and there are times where the cons severely outweigh the pros, especially when some classes have underwhelming dps compared to warriors or mesmers (aka necros).

There are always people in every single game who absolutely MUST do things most efficiently. They feel somehow they’re wasting time if a boss battle takes 7 minutes instead of 5. I’m not one of them and a lot of other people aren’t too.

The difference between a trinity system and what we have here is that in other games, you absolutely MUST have a tank and you absolutely MUST have a healer. There is no alternative.

Here there is. I run dungeons all the time, and almost never run with a warrior. My guild is mostly engies, necros, rangers, guardians and mesmers…with a couple of eles. And we run dungeons all the time…and beat them.

Try that with a trinity.

For what it’s worth, Everquest was a “omg the evil holy trinity” game, and the most memorable and fun dungeon runs were those where you didnt have the trinity. So you can do that in a trinity game just the same (unless you are one of those efficiency people).

In some trinity games, maybe..but unless you severely outlevel content (which isn’t the same thing), you can’t do that in most games. I’d like to see you do the dungeons in Rift or the heroics on WoW without a tank and healer.

Nick.6972:

Cities are way too empty, that’s my issue.. Of course except for LA.
Why build so huge cities when no one ever goes there.

As time goes on, things will be added to cities to make them more crowded. Some people don’t like SAB, but it had the effect of bringing a whole crowd to Rata Sum. On days when Keg Brawl is in the daily, Hoelbrak gets busier.

As time goes on and more things are added to cities (bar room brawl, shooting gallery) more people will go there.

Right now, there’s not a whole lot of reason to go to them…which is a shame…but it’ll happen as time goes on.

I agree. All this stuff would be better than just gear progression (though I disagree it’s a treadmill. That requires a lot more than what we have now). However, all that stuff takes time to produce. It’ll come, just like it happened in Guild Wars 1. Over time.

Learning your away round cities is actually part of the game. Finding waypoints, points of interest and vistas.

Sure it takes time. Ever go to a city in real life? It takes time to learn your way around there too. Larger cities, for a lot of people, make the world feel more like a world and less like a game.

For roleplayers, of course, it gives them lots of places to play.

Many people love having big, windy cities to explore.

Facepunch.5710:

PinCushion.7390:

The Dunning-Kruger Effect

I have seen a few people reference this while having heated discussions on the internet. It may be the most arrogant, condescending thing you can due while debating, as you’re essentially saying, “I know you think you’re right, but it’s just because you fall into the category of ignorant people who think they’re right, but really aren’t.”

So much for intelligent debate.

I don’t actually think, from my point of view, that I’d used that for the argument itself. I would however use it in regards to the number of zerker warriors out there who think they’re a whole lot better than they are.

I’ve met a few. It’s quite hilarious.

Kasama.8941:

Vorch.2985:

This is a real issue I have with owPvE: difficulty does not scale very well with population.

Personally, I would love if there were enemies that could 2-3 shot people. But when you have 3-5 people with you, it all of a sudden doesn’t matter.

• There need to be enemies that punish autoattacking. 25 stacks of retaliation for 5 secs at 75, 50, and 25% health? Hell yes.
• There needs to be more bosses like, sad to say, the King Frog from the SAB. Force people to engage in active combat instead of standing at 1200-1500 range and pew pewing to win. In the end, everyone enjoys it more.

• Bring in Hard Mode open world (level scaled down by 5, 100% MF added) and fractal elements to dungeons.

However, keep this in mind: people may not enjoy a more difficult game…they may simply flock to what ever content is easiest to do.

I don’t know that it doesn’t. Personally, I think there are far more people who loves a challenge, then there are people who don’t. Dark Souls popularity is a solid proof of this. Developers really only make easier games, because they fear their player base. They don’t like frustrated players coming up to them, and complaning that their game is ridiculously difficult. But in that frustration, there is also passion and a drive to succeed, which in turn makes dedicated players. These are emotions easy games never can achieve.

The fact that content is easier when you have more people around you, is already a factor. So that would remain the same.

I disagree with this. Games like Farmville were far more popular than Dark Souls. lol

Dark Souls sold under 3 million copies. Games that are easier, games like Skyrim have sold a lot more.

There are hard core players out there, but I seriously doubt they’re the majority of players.

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

Rhinala.1739:

In my opinion GW2 early days ware as it was advertised the game was a blast, it had erorrs some of the events ware broken but it didnt detracted from the fun.
and then came the lost shores update and the ascended gear that created a huge rift in the player base a rift that hadn’t been mended till today. I thought that fractals will be a wonderful dungeon but in reality it wasn’t better then vexa’s lab, this dungeon is a grind fiesta. here the real grind started, Anet promised different ways to get the ascended gear ways that doesn’t involve the fractals, we got the laurels that requires the daily grind and the monthly grind, wait didn’t Anet advertised that this game will not have grind? so why do i need to kill all of those enemies without any reason?
the dailys and monthlies stopped my event search, thy became a part of the grind not something i do for fun. the spawning rate in this game is insane in the manifesto thy said that the player actions will count but the enemies i kill respawn 90-230 sec later sometimes instantly, events i finish reset 5 min later yup my deeds count (for nothing).
i dont mind the cursed shores art but i mind the amount of enemies and cc few days ago i tried to reach arah waypoint i tried to avoid combat and tossed back and forth, later i tried to fight but couldn’t fight the respawn speed, fun times maybe i need to change my perception of fun. The lower level areas feels a lot more polished then the higher level areas, even the sylvari land feels better then arah.

In my opinion some of the game greatest defenders are Anet employees without the Anet tag.

Yep I tend to agree with you about the employee defender part. I’ve seen it in forums on other mmos and it really doesn’t make sense why someone who loves a game so much they would spend time arguing with people on the forums just because the person being critical has the opinion the game could be better instead of spending that time playing.

The only logical reason I can come up with is some are employed and defending the company they work for. Any good employee would do that but the only thing the critical posters have to gain is having their opinions and frustrations heard in hopes they can improve the game for themselves and like minded players.

It makes about as much sense as football fans fighting over their favorite teams. You really don’t know much about human nature I guess.

I really like a game. I see people bad-mouth the game. The game is my hobby. I defend the game. Pure, simple, human nature. It’s about territory.

There are certain things that trigger reactions in people. All people. If the only reason you can see for me defending a game is that Anet is paying me to do it, you really need to get out more.

Life is a bit more complicated than that. Hell, I’ve seen people defend their soft drink when someone says it sucks.

I’ve never argued with anyone over the Starbucks drink I prefer. I have watched lots of Scientology documentaries on how they bull bait people into arguments though.

I also don’t know where you got the idea I thought Anet was paying you. Maybe you’re projecting I dunno?

Someone else accused me of being on Anet’s payroll and after that you said

Yep I tend to agree with you about the employee defender part. I’ve seen it in forums on other mmos and it really doesn’t make sense why someone who loves a game so much they would spend time arguing with people on the forums just because the person being critical has the opinion the game could be better instead of spending that time playing.

I think it’s perfectly clear what you’re saying here. If you were responding to a post about me being paid by Anet, then I have to assume (and it’s an obvious assumption to make) that this refers to me as well.

Particularly after how often you respond to me for defending Anet.

I think you’re paranoid and I never said that so not sure where you got that from.

The quote that I said you said, I copied and past from your post. The employee defender thing is pretty obvious. I’m not paranoid. This is a seriously easy logical leap to make.

So how long after Rift launched was it before Trion added player housing? It’ll get here when it gets here.

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

Rhinala.1739:

In my opinion GW2 early days ware as it was advertised the game was a blast, it had erorrs some of the events ware broken but it didnt detracted from the fun.
and then came the lost shores update and the ascended gear that created a huge rift in the player base a rift that hadn’t been mended till today. I thought that fractals will be a wonderful dungeon but in reality it wasn’t better then vexa’s lab, this dungeon is a grind fiesta. here the real grind started, Anet promised different ways to get the ascended gear ways that doesn’t involve the fractals, we got the laurels that requires the daily grind and the monthly grind, wait didn’t Anet advertised that this game will not have grind? so why do i need to kill all of those enemies without any reason?
the dailys and monthlies stopped my event search, thy became a part of the grind not something i do for fun. the spawning rate in this game is insane in the manifesto thy said that the player actions will count but the enemies i kill respawn 90-230 sec later sometimes instantly, events i finish reset 5 min later yup my deeds count (for nothing).
i dont mind the cursed shores art but i mind the amount of enemies and cc few days ago i tried to reach arah waypoint i tried to avoid combat and tossed back and forth, later i tried to fight but couldn’t fight the respawn speed, fun times maybe i need to change my perception of fun. The lower level areas feels a lot more polished then the higher level areas, even the sylvari land feels better then arah.

In my opinion some of the game greatest defenders are Anet employees without the Anet tag.

Yep I tend to agree with you about the employee defender part. I’ve seen it in forums on other mmos and it really doesn’t make sense why someone who loves a game so much they would spend time arguing with people on the forums just because the person being critical has the opinion the game could be better instead of spending that time playing.

The only logical reason I can come up with is some are employed and defending the company they work for. Any good employee would do that but the only thing the critical posters have to gain is having their opinions and frustrations heard in hopes they can improve the game for themselves and like minded players.

It makes about as much sense as football fans fighting over their favorite teams. You really don’t know much about human nature I guess.

I really like a game. I see people bad-mouth the game. The game is my hobby. I defend the game. Pure, simple, human nature. It’s about territory.

There are certain things that trigger reactions in people. All people. If the only reason you can see for me defending a game is that Anet is paying me to do it, you really need to get out more.

Life is a bit more complicated than that. Hell, I’ve seen people defend their soft drink when someone says it sucks.

I’ve never argued with anyone over the Starbucks drink I prefer. I have watched lots of Scientology documentaries on how they bull bait people into arguments though.

I also don’t know where you got the idea I thought Anet was paying you. Maybe you’re projecting I dunno?

Someone else accused me of being on Anet’s payroll and after that you said

Yep I tend to agree with you about the employee defender part. I’ve seen it in forums on other mmos and it really doesn’t make sense why someone who loves a game so much they would spend time arguing with people on the forums just because the person being critical has the opinion the game could be better instead of spending that time playing.

I think it’s perfectly clear what you’re saying here. If you were responding to a post about me being paid by Anet, then I have to assume (and it’s an obvious assumption to make) that this refers to me as well.

Particularly after how often you respond to me for defending Anet.

Vorch.2985:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

No they didn’t. They said that they always had gear progression in mind.

Quote please, because that’s not how I remember what they said at all.

Read my sig. From O’Brien.

Yep this was my understanding too. Originally they hadn’t really planned to have vertical progression…though they did talk about raising the level cap as well. I guess we now have to ask what is meant by vertical progression in the first place.

My understanding was that anything better would be cosmetic at launch. My understanding was also that they changed it because too many people wouldn’t work just for cosmetic gear.

Sovta.4719:

“I swung a sword, I swung it again, hey! I swung it again. That’s great, we just don’t want players to grind in GW2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We wanna change the way that people view combat.”
This is quote from some of the developers, not sure witch one cause they erased some videos (manifesto) from net and it’s harder to find them now. (wonder why?)

Yes, it says quite clearly we want to change the way people view COMBAT. He was saying he didn’t people to play and play and play to wait to get to the fun stuff. They wanted to have fun stuff all the way through. Goes along perfectly with what they were saying about no end game early on. They want the end game to start at level 1. They don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2.

If you don’t see that from that paragraph, particularly in the reference to combat, then I don’t know what to tell you. It’s VERY clear.

It says nothing about gear at all. Nothing about gear grind. And I’m sure many people have seen the quote where Anet has said that Guild Wars 2 would offer things to grind for. They just wouldn’t be REQUIRED grind.

That’s in the tradition of Guild Wars 1, where actually, if you wanted the highest PVe skills you could get you had to grind luxon/kurzick faction, EoTN race faction, Sunspear and Lightbringer points.

We want to change the way people view combat. How does this fit in with your understanding of grind and what he meant?

clay.7849:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-11-27-arenanet-holds-frank-reddit-debate-on-guild-wars-2-loot-grind

Very cool and even better. So if they always had gear progression in mind, but a gentle gear progression that isn’t a gear grind, then I don’t really see the problem with that progression.

But I’d also heard prior to that that they were going to up the level cap in an expansion and that could certainly be the gear progression they had in mind. There’s nothing specific in this interview, at least that I saw, that said they were going to raise the gear progression with ascended gear specifically.

You’re putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

Deified.7520:

I think the reason that many Gw1 players were upset was because the way Anet advertised this game was kind of…misleading. Sure we have dynamic events, but its still kill x enemy, or find x amount of item.

And then there is this little clip…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=35BPhT-KI1E#t=43s

I don’t believe anything that made Gw1 an amazing success (besides the lore) made it into the game. They are two different games entirely.

snip

They can make this the best mmo of all time if they keep developing it and play the game as it’s developed while listening to ALL of the community.

They really need a pts server or in game surveys to find out what the players think and want. They can do these because they did it in beta.

This is utter tripe. They can NOT make the best MMO of all time if they listen to ALL of the community, because the community is divided. One group says make the open world harder, one group says keep it the same. Which group do you listen to? Some guys say they want more complexity in the skills and builds, some guys don’t want that. They want to run around and kill stuff. Who do you listen to?

And there have been times when Anet has listened to the people, and made the big world events “more rewarding”. All that’s led to is really boring and bad world events. That’s what Anet gets for listening to the people.

Most people didn’t complain about the difficult of the world events before they were camped so hard they made overflow servers.

Listening to the players assumes most players would know what makes a good game. And it would also presuppose all players want the same things.

If Anet hadn’t listened to the players, we wouldn’t have ascended gear in the form it is today.

Is tripe a word you use in the outback?

Oh and if I was Anet I would probably listen to anyone except for people who defend the game in every thread. See if the game was as wonderful as the fanboys suggest they’d be playing it and not browsing the forums.

PS please keep posting Vayne your insults and comments are a lot more interesting than the game is atm.

I intend to keep posting. Tripe is just a word that isn’t used very much any more. Problem with being old. Sorry about that.

If Anet listened to everyone but fan boys, you guys STILL disagree on stuff. It’s not like those who don’t like the game as it is would all end up agreeing on what it should be. If you think that’s the case…you’d very likely be wrong.

But that’s irrelevant because you use the word fan boy to dismiss other people’s opinions as if they’re not entitled to them. Which is okay, I suppose.

I guess only the opinions of people who dislike stuff matter. The opinions of people who like stuff is just wrong.

Good thinking on your part.

Ps using words like tripe is just a way for people who aren’t as intelligent as they think they are to make themselves feel confident when speaking down to others. You obviously aren’t old enough to know that :-)

Yes I suffer from a deficiency in intelligence. That must be it. Feel free to ignore everything I say in my vast and uncharted ignorance.

It’s hard to ignore you when you’re in every thread but trust me I usually do ignore you. I also find your deficiency in manners to be more noticeably than using the vocabulary you choose but please continue.

I’m not in every thread. Only the ones were people make stuff up because they don’t like the game. By all means, say you don’t like the game, but saying the game isn’t doing well because you don’t like it is just wrong.

At best, you don’t know how well the game is doing.

You might be correct an Anet employee would have the best knowledge on how well the game is doing. I wonder if they always have the Anet logo under thier names? It would make good business sense for them to have posters defending the game. Who knows?

Probably not as much sense as you think. I’m not even sure Anet is happy with how I defend the game. I’m actually an instant target. I probably cause more problems on the forums than I solve.

I’d love it if Anet did pay me. But they don’t.

I’m letting you know that no matter how much you think of yourself, none of us are solving any problems by posting on the forums.

I think you should read my post again, because your response makes no sense.

Sovta.4719:

Vayne.8563:

Sovta.4719:

Jaall.3420:

Sovta.4719:

Vayne.8563:

Look all the anti-fan bois are out together in the same thread. How touching.

Two years from now, this game will still be doing fine. Hopefully by then you’ll have found other games to play that you actually enjoy.

The stuff that you complain about is of concern to players like you and rightly so. Ergo this game might not be for you.

On the other hand, I disagree with most of what you have to say, and so do other people.

It’s not a fact that this game is horribly imbalanced, it’s an opinion. It’s not a fact that rangers can’t run dungeons, because they can run them fine. It’s not fact that Anet is doing terrible things to the game, because some people really like the updates.

You have an opinion that differs from the opinions of others. You feel the need to hang around a game forum and badmouth not only the game, but more importantly people who are enjoying the game.

I’m not going to bad mouth you guys…because there’s no reason to. You just want a different game than this is. Which doesn’t by any means make this a bad game.

How much is arenanet paying you? Is it in carrots or dollars? You know that there are those of us who doesn’t want to run around chasing some DE for months, some want competitive pvp, some good designed dungeons, some WvW without skill lock…

Then find a new game? Plenty out there that have what you’re looking for.

Yea, how about no? I want game that was advertised. There are plenty games with some type of Dynamic events too, it’s not that “revolutionary” like you fanboys say all the time.

I only saw one actual ad for the game. Most people didn’t like it. There was plenty of dev interviews about DEs before release that explained exactly what they were…to the letter. They talked about how they ping pong, how many there would be and you know…it’s just like they said it was.

Maybe you looked at the manifesto, didn’t research the actual game, and that was it? Because I sure as hell knew what I was getting when I bought it.

Yea right, DE that changes the world? No grind? Skill over time invested? (just check rewards on 40+ fotm, but that is too hard for you i guess) E-sport pvp?

When did Anet actually say the game had no grind. Guild Wars 1 had grind. No one ever actually said that Guild Wars 2 would have no grind. In fact, they said there would be things to grind for for people who liked to do that. Straight out said it.

The one thing that people bring up about grind is the single quote in the manifesto, taken completely out of context. Anyone with even the most basic understanding of the English language would have understood Colin was talking about combat grind. Read the whole paragraph. Listen to what he says. No one ever said there would be no grind.

DE’s change the world for a period of time, after which they ping pong back. That’s what was said. Where did you ever see them say DEs would change the world forever.

If you’re referring to the manifesto, shortly after it was released, Anet released a clarification because some people were confused due to editing. Colin was talking about Dynamic Events and Ree was talking about personal story.

Watch it again, I’m sure you can follow that.

Sovta.4719:

It’s funny cause you fanboys seem to play this game only on forums
I can bet you were not online for days/months.

Hmm, then how come my achievement points keep going up every day..more than just the amount of the daily usually.

Today I ran a tenth level fractal with guildies, Twilght Arbor (The up/up path) and path one of Sorrow’s Embrace, plus we did the minidungeon in Caledeon Forest. Earlier in the day there was a guild mission and we ran the meta event chain in Bloodtide Coast and I got that achievement and chest too.

But you know, it’s 11pm, I’m in Australia, most of my Guild isn’t online, and I prefer to play with people than alone. And I played plenty today. That’s why I was off the forums for hours at a time and finally came on.

Nice theory though.

Drew.1865:

Rhinala.1739:

In my opinion GW2 early days ware as it was advertised the game was a blast, it had erorrs some of the events ware broken but it didnt detracted from the fun.
and then came the lost shores update and the ascended gear that created a huge rift in the player base a rift that hadn’t been mended till today. I thought that fractals will be a wonderful dungeon but in reality it wasn’t better then vexa’s lab, this dungeon is a grind fiesta. here the real grind started, Anet promised different ways to get the ascended gear ways that doesn’t involve the fractals, we got the laurels that requires the daily grind and the monthly grind, wait didn’t Anet advertised that this game will not have grind? so why do i need to kill all of those enemies without any reason?
the dailys and monthlies stopped my event search, thy became a part of the grind not something i do for fun. the spawning rate in this game is insane in the manifesto thy said that the player actions will count but the enemies i kill respawn 90-230 sec later sometimes instantly, events i finish reset 5 min later yup my deeds count (for nothing).
i dont mind the cursed shores art but i mind the amount of enemies and cc few days ago i tried to reach arah waypoint i tried to avoid combat and tossed back and forth, later i tried to fight but couldn’t fight the respawn speed, fun times maybe i need to change my perception of fun. The lower level areas feels a lot more polished then the higher level areas, even the sylvari land feels better then arah.

In my opinion some of the game greatest defenders are Anet employees without the Anet tag.

Yep I tend to agree with you about the employee defender part. I’ve seen it in forums on other mmos and it really doesn’t make sense why someone who loves a game so much they would spend time arguing with people on the forums just because the person being critical has the opinion the game could be better instead of spending that time playing.

The only logical reason I can come up with is some are employed and defending the company they work for. Any good employee would do that but the only thing the critical posters have to gain is having their opinions and frustrations heard in hopes they can improve the game for themselves and like minded players.

It makes about as much sense as football fans fighting over their favorite teams. You really don’t know much about human nature I guess.

I really like a game. I see people bad-mouth the game. The game is my hobby. I defend the game. Pure, simple, human nature. It’s about territory.

There are certain things that trigger reactions in people. All people. If the only reason you can see for me defending a game is that Anet is paying me to do it, you really need to get out more.

Life is a bit more complicated than that. Hell, I’ve seen people defend their soft drink when someone says it sucks.

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

Deified.7520:

I think the reason that many Gw1 players were upset was because the way Anet advertised this game was kind of…misleading. Sure we have dynamic events, but its still kill x enemy, or find x amount of item.

And then there is this little clip…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=35BPhT-KI1E#t=43s

I don’t believe anything that made Gw1 an amazing success (besides the lore) made it into the game. They are two different games entirely.

I like the dynamic event system. It was cool and innovative, though they could have gone a lot further with how they designed the events. The no sub fee is a huge feature this game has going for it.

They can make this the best mmo of all time if they keep developing it and play the game as it’s developed while listening to ALL of the community.

They really need a pts server or in game surveys to find out what the players think and want. They can do these because they did it in beta.

This is utter tripe. They can NOT make the best MMO of all time if they listen to ALL of the community, because the community is divided. One group says make the open world harder, one group says keep it the same. Which group do you listen to? Some guys say they want more complexity in the skills and builds, some guys don’t want that. They want to run around and kill stuff. Who do you listen to?

And there have been times when Anet has listened to the people, and made the big world events “more rewarding”. All that’s led to is really boring and bad world events. That’s what Anet gets for listening to the people.

Most people didn’t complain about the difficult of the world events before they were camped so hard they made overflow servers.

Listening to the players assumes most players would know what makes a good game. And it would also presuppose all players want the same things.

If Anet hadn’t listened to the players, we wouldn’t have ascended gear in the form it is today.

Is tripe a word you use in the outback?

Oh and if I was Anet I would probably listen to anyone except for people who defend the game in every thread. See if the game was as wonderful as the fanboys suggest they’d be playing it and not browsing the forums.

PS please keep posting Vayne your insults and comments are a lot more interesting than the game is atm.

I intend to keep posting. Tripe is just a word that isn’t used very much any more. Problem with being old. Sorry about that.

If Anet listened to everyone but fan boys, you guys STILL disagree on stuff. It’s not like those who don’t like the game as it is would all end up agreeing on what it should be. If you think that’s the case…you’d very likely be wrong.

But that’s irrelevant because you use the word fan boy to dismiss other people’s opinions as if they’re not entitled to them. Which is okay, I suppose.

I guess only the opinions of people who dislike stuff matter. The opinions of people who like stuff is just wrong.

Good thinking on your part.

Ps using words like tripe is just a way for people who aren’t as intelligent as they think they are to make themselves feel confident when speaking down to others. You obviously aren’t old enough to know that :-)

Yes I suffer from a deficiency in intelligence. That must be it. Feel free to ignore everything I say in my vast and uncharted ignorance.

It’s hard to ignore you when you’re in every thread but trust me I usually do ignore you. I also find your deficiency in manners to be more noticeably than using the vocabulary you choose but please continue.

I’m not in every thread. Only the ones were people make stuff up because they don’t like the game. By all means, say you don’t like the game, but saying the game isn’t doing well because you don’t like it is just wrong.

At best, you don’t know how well the game is doing.

You might be correct an Anet employee would have the best knowledge on how well the game is doing. I wonder if they always have the Anet logo under thier names? It would make good business sense for them to have posters defending the game. Who knows?

Probably not as much sense as you think. I’m not even sure Anet is happy with how I defend the game. I’m actually an instant target. I probably cause more problems on the forums than I solve.

I’d love it if Anet did pay me. But they don’t.

Sovta.4719:

Jaall.3420:

Sovta.4719:

Vayne.8563:

Look all the anti-fan bois are out together in the same thread. How touching.

Two years from now, this game will still be doing fine. Hopefully by then you’ll have found other games to play that you actually enjoy.

The stuff that you complain about is of concern to players like you and rightly so. Ergo this game might not be for you.

On the other hand, I disagree with most of what you have to say, and so do other people.

It’s not a fact that this game is horribly imbalanced, it’s an opinion. It’s not a fact that rangers can’t run dungeons, because they can run them fine. It’s not fact that Anet is doing terrible things to the game, because some people really like the updates.

You have an opinion that differs from the opinions of others. You feel the need to hang around a game forum and badmouth not only the game, but more importantly people who are enjoying the game.

I’m not going to bad mouth you guys…because there’s no reason to. You just want a different game than this is. Which doesn’t by any means make this a bad game.

How much is arenanet paying you? Is it in carrots or dollars? You know that there are those of us who doesn’t want to run around chasing some DE for months, some want competitive pvp, some good designed dungeons, some WvW without skill lock…

Then find a new game? Plenty out there that have what you’re looking for.

Yea, how about no? I want game that was advertised. There are plenty games with some type of Dynamic events too, it’s not that “revolutionary” like you fanboys say all the time.

I only saw one actual ad for the game. Most people didn’t like it. There was plenty of dev interviews about DEs before release that explained exactly what they were…to the letter. They talked about how they ping pong, how many there would be and you know…it’s just like they said it was.

Maybe you looked at the manifesto, didn’t research the actual game, and that was it? Because I sure as hell knew what I was getting when I bought it.

clay.7849:

No they didn’t. They said that they always had gear progression in mind.

Quote please, because that’s not how I remember what they said at all.

Sovta.4719:

Vayne.8563:

Look all the anti-fan bois are out together in the same thread. How touching.

Two years from now, this game will still be doing fine. Hopefully by then you’ll have found other games to play that you actually enjoy.

The stuff that you complain about is of concern to players like you and rightly so. Ergo this game might not be for you.

On the other hand, I disagree with most of what you have to say, and so do other people.

It’s not a fact that this game is horribly imbalanced, it’s an opinion. It’s not a fact that rangers can’t run dungeons, because they can run them fine. It’s not fact that Anet is doing terrible things to the game, because some people really like the updates.

You have an opinion that differs from the opinions of others. You feel the need to hang around a game forum and badmouth not only the game, but more importantly people who are enjoying the game.

I’m not going to bad mouth you guys…because there’s no reason to. You just want a different game than this is. Which doesn’t by any means make this a bad game.

How much is arenanet paying you? Is it in carrots or dollars? You know that there are those of us who doesn’t want to run around chasing some DE for months, some want competitive pvp, some good designed dungeons, some WvW without skill lock…

I like the game, so Anet is paying me? How much is Blizzard paying you for saying you don’t like it? lol

Simply put, different people require different things from their games. I find it entertaining that this is so hard for some of you to understand.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

The game launched, it did well at first, but people burned through the content much faster than Anet expected them too. Content takes time. If you were around on the forums them, all you saw were posts about nothing to do at 80. There are still posts like this, but far less by my reckoning.

I was around then, and I really don’t remember seeing any hue and cry here over a lack of what ascended gear represents. I do, however, remember seeing mass quantities of hueing and crying over the addition of ascended gear to the game and what that addition represents.

That’s because Vayne wants you to believe that Ascended Gear came from people asking for it in the forums. It didn’t. It was part of ANet’s plan all along. They have said that many times.

They said they were always going to put a new tier of gear into the game. That is absolutely correct. That doesn’t mean that gear took the form they were originally going to use it in. That’s an assumption on your part.

You can’t possibly know what Anet knows. Maybe Anet didn’t just look at this forum, but they looked at other gaming forums too. Maybe they talked to gaming reviewers and professionals. Maybe they talked to some of their own test players.

Anet may have had plans to put another tier of gear in, but that in and of itself tells us nothing. Maybe, originally, that tier of gear was going to be cosmetic only and they decided that wouldn’t work. We simply don’t know.

We do know one thing, though it’s just by logic. Without having an actual reason to raise stats, they wouldn’t have done it.

This might be the worst argument you have ever made to try and make yourself look right and others look wrong. They said they wanted to add a new tier. They added a new tier. You do know what tier means right? It kinda implies something better, which means better stats.

Sometimes you really try way too hard to be right.

Actually, I am right in saying you don’t know. I don’t either. They used the word tier AFTER the fact. They were always going to have ascended items. After it became a new “tier”, of course they were going to use the word tier. Doesn’t mean it was originally going to be an actual tier.

And what else would they say. People were objecting to it being in the game, so they used the words they thought would mitigate the most damage. Like any company would. I think you said you knew something about business.

There’s reality, and there’s the language of marketing. They’re not always going to be the same thing…not in any industry.

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Zeppelin.6832:

Hence the problem with horizontal progression. Going after different “skins” is great, but you can only wear one set of armor at the time. Eventually you’re going to settle on what you like, and then what? There’s nothing else to do on a character.

Except play the game. That is what GW is supposed to be all about. You level, outfit your toon, then just play. It worked in GW1 for 7 years.
GW2 was created as a game with horizontal progression, it was advertised as a game with horizontal progression and it was sold as a game with horizontal progression.
Players coming in now and complaining that they don’t like horizontal progression really have nothing to complain about. The arguments that “the other games has this, the other game has that” are not valid and meaningless. This is not the other game.

It did work for Guild Wars 1 for 7 years…but Guild Wars never went mainstream. It had a core group of players who adored it, including me, but everyone I knew was off playing WoW.

Guild Wars 1 sold 7 million copies over 7 years or a million copies a year. WoW has ten million active subs at the moment. Sure it was successful, but the devs want to do something “big” and to do that they need numbers. Far more numbers that Guild Wars 1 provided them. For that matter, of the 7 million people, just about everyone I know had multiple accounts, because it was cheaper to do that than buy character slots. Between my wife and I we have five accounts. So it wasn’t necessariliy 7 million people who own the game.

Guild Wars 1 had a staff of 50 people. The staff making Guild Wars 2 is five times the size. That’s a huge difference. In order for Anet to make the game they envision they need more people to play it.

I was absolutely fine with the way things were in Guild Wars 1, and I wish more people could be fine with it too…but I strongly suspect that’s not the case.

There are people who came to GW2 from WoW to escape the grind. I was one of those. There is a growing niche of players who realize the emperor is wearing no clothes. The treadmill goes nowhere; it’s simply a time-sink to entertain the simple. I would like more. Something along the lines of the GW2 pre-release marketing.

I agree. I’d like it too. The ascended gear was a stop gap measure, because making actual content takes time. They ran out of content. Happens to every MMO. People play the content, run out of it, and the company is left with a choice. Either they fill the gap and provide SOMETHING, or they lose players.

What would you have done? Assuming you invested your money, your time, your energy into making a game, the content is gone, the new content isn’t ready, people are getting to 80 and leaving…what would you have done?

It’s so easy to judge what companies do, but really, they did what they felt they had to to keep people in the game. I don’t find this hard to understand.

It’s not that they’re not working on more content. It’s that the kind of content you’re asking for takes a long long time to program…at least compared to throwing in a slight gear progression.

clay.7849:

@Vayne

So how come some MMOs are able to ship with better combat, better balance, more strategy, better PvP, more interesting content, etc etc?

You seem to think that there is something inherently impossible about releasing an MMO with that things I have problems with, but others have done it, right?

My biggest problem with this game is that combat lacks anywhere near the depth GW1 did and that PvP is really quite terrible.

I’m pretty sure those things could have been released from the beginning. I mean, GW1 had amazing balance at perhaps the single best RPG PvP ever. I don’t think one being a CORPG and one being an MMO have that much to do with the combat and PvP being atrocious in GW2 but perhaps the single best thing about GW1.

Which MMO shipped with better PvP? SWToR? Rift? WoW? Warhammer Online? AoC? Come on. Which of these games shipped with less bugs or problems. Probably only Rift of all of them, and that was a small small game by comparison. Make a tiny game and yes, you can polish it a lot more and guess what? Two months after launch the forums were filled with there’s nothing to do at end game. Honest.

This is where your lack of experience comes in. You say MMOs have/can ship like that. Where are they? Name some of them.

clay.7849:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

The game launched, it did well at first, but people burned through the content much faster than Anet expected them too. Content takes time. If you were around on the forums them, all you saw were posts about nothing to do at 80. There are still posts like this, but far less by my reckoning.

I was around then, and I really don’t remember seeing any hue and cry here over a lack of what ascended gear represents. I do, however, remember seeing mass quantities of hueing and crying over the addition of ascended gear to the game and what that addition represents.

That’s because Vayne wants you to believe that Ascended Gear came from people asking for it in the forums. It didn’t. It was part of ANet’s plan all along. They have said that many times.

They said they were always going to put a new tier of gear into the game. That is absolutely correct. That doesn’t mean that gear took the form they were originally going to use it in. That’s an assumption on your part.

You can’t possibly know what Anet knows. Maybe Anet didn’t just look at this forum, but they looked at other gaming forums too. Maybe they talked to gaming reviewers and professionals. Maybe they talked to some of their own test players.

Anet may have had plans to put another tier of gear in, but that in and of itself tells us nothing. Maybe, originally, that tier of gear was going to be cosmetic only and they decided that wouldn’t work. We simply don’t know.

We do know one thing, though it’s just by logic. Without having an actual reason to raise stats, they wouldn’t have done it.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

The game launched, it did well at first, but people burned through the content much faster than Anet expected them too. Content takes time. If you were around on the forums them, all you saw were posts about nothing to do at 80. There are still posts like this, but far less by my reckoning.

I was around then, and I really don’t remember seeing any hue and cry here over a lack of what ascended gear represents. I do, however, remember seeing mass quantities of hueing and crying over the addition of ascended gear to the game and what that addition represents.

I remember seeing quite a lot of hue and cry over not having anything to do at 80. Much more than exists today and quite a lot of it still exists today. A lot of people who didn’t feel they had anythign to work for were satisified, at least to some degree, by the fractals. And the nothing to do posts died down quite a bit.

I love how everything thinks they know more than the developer about what’s going on in the game. Do you really think that Anet made the decision to put ascended gear in the game without knowing there’d be mass protests. By comments we’ve seen, their own testers complained about it, but they did it anyway. You have to ask yourself why that is. It’s not like a cash grab, because you can’t buy ascended gear with gold. What you’re suggesting would seem almost suicidal. Is Anet stupid? Are they crazy? Are they interested in doing nothing more than sinking their own game?

Of course not. You don’t know their sources or where they get their information from. Neither do I. But I can guarantee you they have far more data and metrics than you or I have. They have to. It’s their business. They invested money and time and heart to make this game. They didn’t just put ascended gear in for no reason.

You may not agree with the reason. You may not even know the reason but logic has it that there was a reason. And if it’s not the cash shop, the only thing I can think of is that they thought it would be better for the over all health of the game.

And I think they were right about that.

clay.7849:

I should be able to make comments about the game without having played MMOs in the past. I did play GW1 longer than any other game ever, so I know what GW1 did better than GW2 in my opinions. Just saying that GW2 in an MMO and should stick to some special set of rules is a weak argument.

This has nothing to do with rules. This has to do with reality. It’s not a rule that MMOs will launch incomplete….it’s a set of circumstances surrounding a genre that is altogether misunderstood until you’ve actually followed it.

It’s much easier to make single player or even coop games than MMOs. Over the years, after seeing dozens if not hundreds of interviews with devs, they all say the same thing. MMOs are the single hardest thing you can aspire too. They carry the highest cost of any time of video game, the highest risk, the most complicated programming processes. They all require money and they all eventually run out of funding. You have to start making money at some point. It’s just business. No one can afford to keep investing in something indefinitely without getting money back in to pay for it. Simple, plain, business logic.

And with programming, everything takes longer than you think. Bugs creep up that you never thought of, because you’ve never done that before. So you think, I can do this in two years, and two becomes three, and three becomes four. The bills mount up…but no income. So you get to a point where you eventually have to release the game. You try to judge it right, gear it so that the game is playable but most of the time it’s only barely so…despite the best intentions of devs. They all have the same story, not because they’re lazy, but because of the complexity of the project.

You’re entitled to say anything you want, of course. I never denied that. Just as I’m entitled to disagree with your opinion.

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

maddoctor.2738:

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

lothefallen.7081:

I try to like WvW, but it’s just too pointless. The combat system is absolutely awful. Taking out trinity made this game a pile of shallow trash. There’s no rhyme or reason to it. The game is basically a skin grind. I’m sitting in WvW saying to myself, this zerg of players doesnt need me at all. Without the roles and tightness that brings to combat, everyone just mobs up and zergs the kitten out of everything. I really have no idea why i still log in. This game has fundamental design flaws that just arent going to get fixed. I can’t even explain, but the gameplay is just too shallow, leave it at that. Wish they had some integrity not to turn my favorite online game (GW1) into a steaming pile of average joe trash for the dumbo masses. Hope the cash shop sales have been worth all the disappointed fans that basically GAVE you the wherewithall to fund this dung heap. This game is trash.

Many agree with you trust me.

And many don’t. See how easy this is.

They are just people who wanted Guild Wars 2 to be Guild Wars 1 with better graphics. They will get over it, or go back to their awesome GW1.

I never played GW1 but I have heard it’s much better in every way except the graphics in GW2.

And I’ve heard from others who didn’t like Guild Wars 1 at all and like Guild Wars 2. I actually like them both. Both have upsides and downsides, much like any other game.

But then you have guys like Clay who say Guild Wars 1 was much better at launch and then died, and I’ve heard many other people say the game got better as it went on.

That’s why it’s called an opinion.

Or when you don’t agree with it you call it tripe ;-)

Looks like the post has been deleted, because I can’t find it. But I don’t use that word without reason.

Flamenco.3894:

Facts are stranger than fiction.

Depends on the fiction…and on the fact. I have a little bit of experience with both.

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

maddoctor.2738:

lothefallen.7081:

Counterpoint:
Rangers are still a joke.
Lol condition spec.
All fights deteriorate into zerg buttonmashing.

Pigeonholed skill system, 5 skills for the whole game for your favorite weapon, on top of that, their effectiveness precludes the utility skills, making for a bar that is barely customizable at all.

Most classes have less than 3 viable elite skills, more often than not, its not even a choice.

Vertical gear progression.

Lost Shores.

No roles means that everyone can do everything. Without the trinity to structure combat and content design, we have hp sponges with OHKO mechanics that belong in a LoZ game, not an MMO.

Feel free to add to it. I enjoy the game, but ill save praise for when it’s not an utter joke designed to keep me grinding dailies and gambling for RNG skin tickets.

I’m having a blast on my ranger in WvW and I’d prefer my ranger over any other profession there. I also run many dungeons with my ranger, including Arah P4 and 20+ fractals and have no issues with pugs or in guild groups. Yes the profession needs help as many utilities are still useless, but the profession isn’t a joke at all, you can do everything if you play well, terrible players should go find “easier to handle” professions I guess. Go play the easy mode Guardian/Warrior.

Condition specs work, unless you get more than one condition specced char in your group but that can be avoided. Also, Condition specs work very well in sPVP.

I bet you haven’t been to many fights.

Not true at all. I’m using more than 10 utility skills and 4/5 weapon sets on most of my chars (on the Ele I use only 2 different sets) and I would gladly use a way to load/save spec builds quickly, it would certainly help me a lot since I change so much depending on the situation. Again, learn to play.

Most(all?) classes have 3 elite skills and you say 3 of them are viable? Then it’s 100% viability? That’s awesome, but not true, most professions would rather use utility in the elite slot because elites are lacking.

Vertical what?

Lost Shores was a lag fest, that didn’t make it all bad though, one time events should be repeated, with certain changes to eliminate lag.

No trinity means nobody can be carried by the rest of the team, or a group of 7 AI heroes that can make even a total newbie (or someone afk) perform the hardest content ever. Yes, amazing design and trinity in GW1, the afk game.

No you don’t like the game, for someone that hates it so much I wonder why you still play, and post here.

If you’re playing a ranger you are being carried in dungeons. I know two players that were never carried that played that class. I know I’ve been carried before on mine and I played mine a lot better than many players I ran dungeons with.

I have a guy in my guild who’s definitely not carried on his ranger. I’ve done dungeons on my ranger and no, I don’t believe I was carried, Particularly because the longer range of my longbow when traited allowed me to hit the destroyer boss in CoE from the stairs, which none of the other professions could do. Made that particular fight much easier, let me tell you.

There are always people who say stuff like what you’re saying. Your OPINIONS are neither better nor more important than anyone else’s.

Hitting that boss from the stairs might be considered an exploit. I know anything that makes dungeon combat in this game is usually fixed so I hope that works for you on your future runs.

It’s not an exploit. It’s why I traited for 1500 range for that dungeon. It’s a tactic. It’s a regular line of site shots and the boss still attacks me from there using dragon tooth.

I don’t use exploits.

His aoe is easily avoided by using your dodges correctly so you might have wasted a trait for that. Oh well we learn something new everyday :-)

I dodge just fine from higher up. When you’re lower, he can hit you with other attacks as well. It’s a much easier fight from the stairs. Why advocate doing something the harder way? Masochist much?

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

Deified.7520:

I think the reason that many Gw1 players were upset was because the way Anet advertised this game was kind of…misleading. Sure we have dynamic events, but its still kill x enemy, or find x amount of item.

And then there is this little clip…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=35BPhT-KI1E#t=43s

I don’t believe anything that made Gw1 an amazing success (besides the lore) made it into the game. They are two different games entirely.

I like the dynamic event system. It was cool and innovative, though they could have gone a lot further with how they designed the events. The no sub fee is a huge feature this game has going for it.

They can make this the best mmo of all time if they keep developing it and play the game as it’s developed while listening to ALL of the community.

They really need a pts server or in game surveys to find out what the players think and want. They can do these because they did it in beta.

This is utter tripe. They can NOT make the best MMO of all time if they listen to ALL of the community, because the community is divided. One group says make the open world harder, one group says keep it the same. Which group do you listen to? Some guys say they want more complexity in the skills and builds, some guys don’t want that. They want to run around and kill stuff. Who do you listen to?

And there have been times when Anet has listened to the people, and made the big world events “more rewarding”. All that’s led to is really boring and bad world events. That’s what Anet gets for listening to the people.

Most people didn’t complain about the difficult of the world events before they were camped so hard they made overflow servers.

Listening to the players assumes most players would know what makes a good game. And it would also presuppose all players want the same things.

If Anet hadn’t listened to the players, we wouldn’t have ascended gear in the form it is today.

Is tripe a word you use in the outback?

Oh and if I was Anet I would probably listen to anyone except for people who defend the game in every thread. See if the game was as wonderful as the fanboys suggest they’d be playing it and not browsing the forums.

PS please keep posting Vayne your insults and comments are a lot more interesting than the game is atm.

I intend to keep posting. Tripe is just a word that isn’t used very much any more. Problem with being old. Sorry about that.

If Anet listened to everyone but fan boys, you guys STILL disagree on stuff. It’s not like those who don’t like the game as it is would all end up agreeing on what it should be. If you think that’s the case…you’d very likely be wrong.

But that’s irrelevant because you use the word fan boy to dismiss other people’s opinions as if they’re not entitled to them. Which is okay, I suppose.

I guess only the opinions of people who dislike stuff matter. The opinions of people who like stuff is just wrong.

Good thinking on your part.

Ps using words like tripe is just a way for people who aren’t as intelligent as they think they are to make themselves feel confident when speaking down to others. You obviously aren’t old enough to know that :-)

Yes I suffer from a deficiency in intelligence. That must be it. Feel free to ignore everything I say in my vast and uncharted ignorance.

It’s hard to ignore you when you’re in every thread but trust me I usually do ignore you. I also find your deficiency in manners to be more noticeably than using the vocabulary you choose but please continue.

I’m not in every thread. Only the ones were people make stuff up because they don’t like the game. By all means, say you don’t like the game, but saying the game isn’t doing well because you don’t like it is just wrong.

At best, you don’t know how well the game is doing.