Guild Wars 2

You know, there’s a huge difference between what they say and what happens in-game. I learnt not to believe anything ANet says, because so far they never respected any of their declarations.

Talk about miscommunication…

Bigtony: I like the idea of the mist summons! Actually, you gave me and idea (I will develop it under my answer for Dondagora).

Dondagora: I also like the idea, but wouldn’t it be difficult to navigate an airborne character? What about terrain and such? For example: if the airborne state means the character is (let’s say) 6ft up in the air, would it take terrain in consideration? If yes, characters can become stuck in front of a stone or something, which might appear a bit silly. If no, these characters could be abused: if I make my character airborne on the highest point in Lion’s Arch, and if it doesn’t take terrain into consideration, the character could fly up high on the map… I like the idea but I assume it would be hard to make it happen, don’t you think?

So, to continue the idea Bigtony gave me: a warrior that would buff himself using a summoned spirit. The F1 skill would be a selectable communion (maybe some like with the Lich, or Shiro? You know, lore related spirits), and would use communion points: during combat, the fighter gains points like adrenaline, each point means 1 second of communion (maximum 10?). The character’s skills will change during that time, granting powers according to the summon. These fighters could have 3 or 4 different spirits to unite with. I like the idea of a character changing in a normal playstyle (not just elites)

You’re right, it was during the Opening Ceremoney, she uses a one-handed swords like a greatsword (and she summons her bubble too), here’s a video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxe_Mxv7mlQ#t=248

Zomaarwat.3912:

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

That’s not going to happen: these are starter zones and having merchants might be too confusing for newcomers.

I wish people would stop using that joke -_-

I wish this was a joke, but indeed: they removed that content because it was too much information at once for new players. Like it or not, that’s the idea of the NPE…

That’s not going to happen: these are starter zones and having merchants might be too confusing for newcomers.

I assume it’s a lvl20 scroll + tomes to get you to level 80?

Didn’t she summon a sword during Scarlet’s attack on Crown Pavilion?

Galen Grey.4709:

Why do people claim skins are just released in the gemstore… granted its not 60% 40% in favor of in-game but there were a total of 5 full armor skins released in-game and 7 in the gem store. Not to mention thats not counting the truckload of weapons skins released in-game and the many single armor piece we got … 2 truckloads of back items and some loose stuff like the dragon helmet, the molten gloves, aetherized shoulders etc…

Are you people unaware of these or just exaggerate to make a point?

Really, 5 full armor sets? Besides the Ascended armor and the Glorious one, I seem to have lost 3 in the count (btw I don’t consider AP armor as part of the armor set, since they can only be obtained if you spend quite the amount of time doing things you might not like for the sake of getting points).

I don’t talk about simple pieces, of course there are many. I’m counting complete 6-piece armor set (and, let’s play the game, costumes too). Most of them were released in gemstore. Same for weapons: 11 sets were released in BLC. Guess what? Before people had to farm keys, now it’s longer, or they can… Buy keys with gems! As for the rest: they were temporary and now end up being out of reach for most players.

Either we get temporary content or content that needs farming.

… It’s November 4th, sorry mate.

Actually I would buy more from the gemstore is everything wasn’t released in it. If they released 60% of the skins in-game, I wouldn’t mind spending some golds/bucks to buy the rest. But since everything is only gemstore based, it’s not even worth the investment.

Vayne.8563:

Yes the temporary stuff was a mistake. If you’re a fan of the company and know they try stuff, you say okay, the mistake set them back and you understand…at least I do. If they wasted a year making stuff that’s not in the game, it’s hard to say well I don’t care they should have new stuff anyway. That new stuff takes time to make and they’ve been working on it. We’ll see it as it’s ready.

The other thing is that Anet has learned what demogrpahic likes and plays the game after launch. Before they couldn’t really know. An MMO is always going to be adjusted on the fly because of that.

Maybe it’s adjusted in a way you like it and maybe it’s adjusted in a way you don’t like it, but the bottom line is, there’s no guarantees in an MMO. It’s just not possible. Everything can and does change.

The sooner you learn that, the happier you’ll be.

Of course I do understand that, and indeed I cannot deny they’ve put a lot of work in LS1, even if it was not that good.

All I can say is that I’m a passionate gamer, if something changes to something I don’t like, I say it, and after some days I accept somes changes, but others not. As you said, I don’t have to like everything, and I don’t.

The other mistake they make, IMHO, is making everything money-related. This is what disappoints me most in this game: money is power. A new armor? Buy it! A new weapon? Buy it! Ok, they have to make money, but new things have appeared in the gem store and… The game still lags in many parts of the world, making it unplayable. Many bugs and performances are to be fixed ASAP, we see changes every month (with more bugs and others not even fixed) yet the GS is still being uploaded. Do you think it’s normal to make money the priority while a big part of the community suffers from unplayable lags?

ANet has three majors issues to me: lack of/bad communication (too vague and elusive, just blowing hot air), removed content (way too often), and GS as a top priority.

At first I didn’t give a quaggan about that, but now it has become my daily struggle, I have to stand for it.

Vayne.8563:

snip

Of course I did like GW1 so much I was thrilled, as well as I was thrilled about the new things they were presenting. The game changed a lot (at first you had a companion, then you could choose not to have one, then we don’t have any).

What I find mostly disappointing is that most of time, and not only in the manifesto, they say something and end up far away from what we have been told. kitten happens during development, but they just pretend nothing happened or was said at all. The fact they don’t keep their message up to date gives me the impression they are in a bubble.

I was not disappointed in GW2 at release (and let’s say for around a year), reason why I played nearly everyday since release. They just don’t seem to provide what they did in GW1: content. Let me be clear, I know they released many many many things, but most were temporary, which is a loss yet the idea of their living world. I can’t deny the fact there was the wonderful battle against the marionette, for example. Yet, most “goodies” were not aimed at casual gamers, even if the new system seems to be aiming at them, but rather at paying people/players with lot of IG money.

The disappointment does not come from the game per se, but rather what happened around during these two years: almost nothing. Any explanation to what did not make the cut? Silence. The team needs some kind of riot to work with us.

I was told we were a community, but most problematic points are not heard, and we are sometimes given the impression we are cash cows.

Do I like the game? I surely do. Will it be like that for a long time? Only time will tell me, but if the game keeps stagnating, I guess most of us will leave.

Vayne.8563:

@VergilDeZaniah.3295

This game does DEFY existing conventions. Or did you think having no trinity is common in the MMO world. Or anyone can rez anyone without using a skill slot. Or not competing for nodes and kills. This is all stuff that defies existing conventions. That line doesn’t actually say we’ll defy every single existing convention. I don’t know a lot of MMOs that have two human warriors that can have different personal stories. That’s defying an existing convention.

As I said, I put an example, of course there are also things that defy conventions. Yet some updates tend close the gap between GW2 and the said conventions, and as I said it’s just an example against.

I’ve explained what he meant by grinding in an earlier post. You should probably read it. Also you can look up grind on Wikipedia. Over the years that word has changed meaning a lot. In the old days we pretty much only used it with regard for grinding for levels. Killing creatures to level up because we ran out of stuff to do. That’s what he was talking about and that’s the definition still most often used according wikipedia. It’s one of the problems with looking at a four year old video. Four years is a long long time in this industry.

And I edited my post regarding that point.

When Ree says “it’s your story”, it’s because you can choose a path that someone else makes different. There’s no way anyone could imagine it would mean you can do absolutely anything you want.

You see in WoW, all human warriors…same story. No difference. You do what everyone else does. Guild Wars 2 changed that so two human warriors could have different stories.

The problem with literal interpretation of a five minute video, particularly a video that was a clearly clarified as this one in the two years after the game, means that you’re taking something that was very public knowledge and trying to twist it in a way to make a point. Did you actually think you could do anything,. just because it’s your story? Because I didn’t…and I don’t know a whole lot of people who did.

You can choose a path up to a certain point, the rest is just going from point A to B, just decide which way to take. I do admit it creates new views on the game, but nothing mind blowing, don’t you think?
Also, it’s my story, why do I end up as casting a favorable light on Trahearne and DE2.0? I have barely done anything in the story, I simply kept my mouth shut and followed (most of the time) the people I was forced to follow.

The only like I really have a problem with from the entire manifesto is “taking everything you love from Guild Wars 1”. Well yes, they surely didn’t do that. That’s the one line.

Unfortunately even that would have been 100% impossible, unless everyone loved the same thing. There are no heroes in Guild Wars 2 and some people loved heroes. But some people hated heroes and thought they ruined the game.

Shrugs. Without playing silly word games, it’s mostly true. No one could explain the entire game in 5 minutes. That’s why they provided huge amounts of detail afterward.

I could do this with any piece of writing. Analayze it word by word, statement by statement and ignore common sense and context and make it look wrong. It’s what lawyers and politicians do. Which is why people don’t trust them.

Of course I don’t want a copy and paste of something that was released ages ago. But the way they put it was like “this is the heir of GW1” and we end up with a few references and barely anything comparable. It’s like I’m saying “I baked a Pavlova” but I present a chocolate cake: I tell you something and the result is way too far from the statement to be considered related to it.

Also, we have had many disappointments with the game. What’s the part I hate most? Their silence. It’s ok for something not to work as intended, or for plans to change during the creation of the game. I keep having faith in the devs (I’m too optimistic just like the way I’ve been with other games that ended up total failure), but some people don’t even want to wait anymore, and the idea is that if they can’t even respect something that was supposed to be the keystone of their game, why would they respect the lore that was given to them years ago?

I know we all are arguing about different points of view and tastes, some do support the team, others don’t, and others are mixed. But I assume what everyone wants, and that would resolve the conflict in our community, is just some words.

“We are working on something big”, everyone is happy!
“Something didn’t work as intended, we’ll take a break to offer new content”, everyone is sad but happy they said it.

So if they want us to move away from the manifesto, it’s up to them: they have to update their ideas if they want us to advance with them.

Vayne.8563:

Thanks, I agree. They almost nailed it perfectly. It’s 90% right.

I wouldn’t say 90%, but some things are there while others not at all.

Mike O’Brien: “We founded ArenaNet to innovate, so Guild Wars 2 is our opportunity to question everything, to make a game that defies existing conventions. If you love MMOs, you’ll want to check out Guild Wars 2, and if you hate MMOs, you’ll really want to check out Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1 and puts it into a persistent world that’s got more active combat, a fully-branching, personalized storyline, a new event system to get people playing together, and still no monthly fees.”

The game tends to copy the format of other games, which doesn’t rely define “against conventions”. But that’s just a simple example
The game, for most people, does not have the most beloved parts of GW1. Beside the name and some classes (and somehow the lore, but barely), the game is pretty different. People want build templates like in GW1, they have been asking for 2 years. Yet nothing. But that’s just an example against. So let’s say this point is mixed ^^

Daniel Dociu: “The look of Guild Wars 2 is stylized. We’re going for a painterly, illustrated aesthetic. Everything in our world feels handcrafted and artisanal. We treat our environments as if they are characters themselves.”

Absolutely right.

Colin Johanson: “When you look at the art in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s visually stunning. I’ve never seen anything like that before,’ and then when you play the combat in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.’ In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

Unfortunately, most content becomes this way thanks to the meta. After all, why bother finding a specification for a class while zerg is the thing that gets all the glory? Also, some parts (key farming, gold farming to make gems, etc.) are really onto the grinding side.
Edit: I do agree than you don’t have to grind for levels, but at some point it becomes a bit more interesting

Ree Soesbee: “As a structure, the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you are doing. The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”

That’s just personal, but I don’t feel like a hero, just a random bloke following a gang in which I’m called boss.
And about bosses… They do respawn quite fast.

Colin Johanson: “You’ll get quest text that tells you ’I’m being attacked by these horrible things,’ and it’s not actually happening. In the game world, these horrible centaurs are standing around in a field, and you get a quest step that says ‘Go kill ten centaurs.’ We don’t think that’s OK. You see what’s happening. You see centaurs running to the trading post, knocking the walls down, burning and killing the merchants.”

That’s true.

Ree Soesbee: “We do not want to build the same MMO everyone else is building, and in Guild Wars 2, it’s your world. It’s your story. You affect things around you in a very permanent way.”

Well, if it were my story, I would have taken the Pact airship and gone to find Mordremoth. But no, I gotta play in sand first. It is the impression it’s our own personal world, while we are just one in a million.

Colin Johanson: “Cause and effect: A single decision made by a player cascades out in a chain of events.”

Rather true.

Ree Soesbee: “You’re meeting new people whom you will then see again. You’re rescuing a village that will stay rescued, who then remember you. The most important thing in any game should be the player. We have built a game for them.”

I don’t remember people remembering me after I saved them… But it must be quite hard to implement, I assume.

IMHO 60% of the manifesto is respected. The most appealing things, however, seem not to have made it. The game was good, but the changes didn’t make it better, that’s the problem: the game somehow stagnates rather than advances.

Mesmer-thief: the mole in every tower/keep in WvW.

The saddest thing is actually that GW2 was advertised to be different from other games, yet it adopts the very same attitude than other games…

Indeed, it implies both ideas, thanks!

But I prefer to believe my characters were more intelligent and knew Glint wasn’t a threat

Regarding RP, my GW1 necro died of old age and is the ancestor of my GW2 necro, same with my elementalists. And I somehow hope that my dervish and ritualist managed to stay alive by hiding/magic

Del.4309:

If it was, they only made it worse lol (for me).

Same, it’s far worse for me…

Actually it was a reference to a mission in GW1 where you had to defeat her, and Glint just states the heroes came to fight here, nothing more

MikaHR.1978:

This is why someone not very well versed in the game should not “explain” things to noobs.

1. i guess he feels exponentionally dumber playing WoW if thats the case. have you xplained him that in the old system it was actually much worse and that he had to unlock EACH skill on EACH weapon individually AND that he probably wouldnt have those skills anyway?

2. how is feeding the cow makes you feel any more or less stupid than dancing for a cow? Also look at 1, he had same skills as he would have had before.

3. Since the game showers you with gear now i bet you what you want that most people will have avrage bigger stats than they had before, AND you can play naked….if youre skilled. have you “explained” that to him too?

4. What does story starting at lvl 10 has to do with 3 or 4 or any year olds? So if exact same story starts at level 5 it would be awesomly mature now? Does it maybe have anything to do with your “explanation”…yeah

5. If he didnt have anything to do at lvl 6 then im afaraid hes a lost cause becuse thats how GW2 plays you go look out for stuff. If anything (and your frind proved it) it seems that avid WoW players need even MORE hand holding than NPE brought (not really surprising considering how WoW is)

Don’t get on your high horse just because I somehow criticize your beloved system, White Knight #2. People have opinion, and trying to prove them their tastes are wrong is totally similar to religious extremism. Nobody is like you and nobody needs to be like you, and respecting people is the first step into a calm discussion. The way you are aggressive towards an opinion shows that you are not in fact someone to talk to, because you think you’re always right even if it’s something totally out of your control.

About me not being well versed: I am as much well versed in the game as you are. After all you don’t know me at all and don’t know how much time I’ve spent on the game, or GW1, or any other game. Maybe you’d want me to quit my job to play all day long and send you an IG message to boast about my AP? Please, just because I’m not addicted to the game does not mean I don’t know what I’m talking about.

First of all, I didn’t say I agreed with most his criticisms. Second, I’m as objective as you are to explain him what changed when he didn’t understand why I didn’t show him when I first showed him the game a long time ago. So yeah, if reading what is on the wiki in the patch notes means I’m biased, then I won’t deny I am, but everyone is biased then.

Also, to give you the proper answer to your divine knowledge of me and my friend:

1. I did explain how it worked before. To him having the same simple skills for levels gave him the impression he couldn’t better himself right away.

2. Because to him it’s more stupid to dance for a cow than to feed it. We gotta kill enemies right? So maybe it could be changed to “scare your enemy” with only the “boo!” skill? The point is it was transformed into something stupid for the sake of removing a bundle.

3. I explained that the game focused more on skills than on gear/stats. And getting info in pop-ups was not something he considered rewarding, as he felt he was stagnating.

4. He doesn’t like the fact the game believes he can’t progress at his own pace, he is forced to wait until level 10 to advance in his own story. Before, some skills and the first story arc could be done without even being level 5 (key farming was about skills right?). Now he can’t do anything until he is allowed to. This makes him feel like a kid who needs to have his parents’ permission to go play outside.

5. Since he can’t see vistas, points of interest, or skill challenges, he doesn’t have the impression that there are interesting things on a map, and since he can’t do most things he does not see why he should explore with a low level character. I told him otherwise (but you won’t believe I did since I seem to be the anti-NPE Grinch). Once he had unlocked some skills and ended up doing the same things again, he felt bored, and couldn’t do anything but… Do the same things again.

What actually bothers him most is that the game seems really open while it actually is gated. What did I do when I first got online? I tried everything and had my fun that way! Now? People can’t do what they want but only what they are told.

The NPE in itself is not all bad or all good: I do not spit on every change that happened with the NPE, I’m just showing the frustrating side of the levelgating process for a new customer that was supposed to be swooning in front of the new system. My friend might be one in a million, and therefore GW2 will thrive more than ever, but he might be just one drop in the sea of people who could have bought the game but actually did not like the system.

It’s live or let die, and we’ll soon discover how it is.

Scipio.3204:

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

The gemstore is a good idea, and since you can also pay with IG money, I’m not against it at all. The only thing I’m against is that every but one armors released during these two years came in the gemstore. Some skins have their place their, while other don’t. They should go half way in between, but not put everything in the gemstore…

Actually they release more armor than 1 set through ingame. I’ve counted the weapons & armors released through gemstore/ingame not long ago
here are the numbers

On weapons:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-GW2-just-isn-t-working/page/10#post4447295

On armors:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-GW2-just-isn-t-working/page/9#post4442387

Thanks. When I said one armor I was talking about something that didn’t need AP grinding, and complete sets, not just a piece of armor or something. As I do count outfits as armors (even though I despise them), that’s still 3 IG sets vs 14 GS sets…

Devata.6589:

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

The gemstore is a good idea, and since you can also pay with IG money, I’m not against it at all. The only thing I’m against is that every but one armors released during these two years came in the gemstore. Some skins have their place their, while other don’t. They should go half way in between, but not put everything in the gemstore…

The fact that you can buy it with in game gold means that the only way to earn them in game is by grinding gold. What I would not see as a fun way of playing that game. And the fact that all or most or best looking things are added in the cash-shop is what you get when you focus your income on a cash-shop. When you place to many in the world so you can earn them directly in game by working for them there would not be enough reason to buy them from the cash-shop.

So you first say you like it and then explain why it’s bad. Think about it.. maybe you do not like it… You might like the idea on paper but then if you pay attention and see what it does to the game you do not like it.

At first I didn’t like the idea at all. But in the end, I end up tolerating it. However I do agree it is far too focused on by the devs. I’m sure they will not stop spending time putting efforts and ressources in the store. Remember when they said it would be all about buying some buffs and some goodies like Chef costume and Pirate costume? That was a good idea. But now it’s just “Give that character an armor and a weapo nand let’s add them to the cash shop!”, that’s not a good idea.

A bit (like in GW1) = okay, too much (as it is now) = not okay.

ANet deals in absolutes: either it’s IG (one not so beautiful armor) or in GS (more beautiful skins), either they remain silent or they announce things that do not make it. They really should learn to sit in between opposite sides.

The gemstore is a good idea, and since you can also pay with IG money, I’m not against it at all. The only thing I’m against is that every but one armors released during these two years came in the gemstore. Some skins have their place their, while other don’t. They should go half way in between, but not put everything in the gemstore…

Vayne.8563:

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Vayne.8563:

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Changes are sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the supposed better (which end up being worse).

I invited a friend of mine to test GW2 during this free “weekend”. He is an avid WoW player but decided to try a game without subscription. He was so eager to play… Until he tested.

1. " So I have to wait to unlock skills? That’s stupid. " I explained. " Right, I didn’t know I was too dumb to read a description or try more than two skills at a time… "
2. " I am dancing in front of a cow… I feel stupid. " I explained about the bundles being too complex. " I can use a credit card but not a bundle when a message pops up, right. But it’s good: I can’t use more than two skills so… "
3. " No stats bonus while leveling? There’s no need for leveling then. " I explained the stats burst. " Ok, so you’re strong, then weak, then super weak, then strong, then weak, then super weak. Why don’t they just buff stats at lvl80? "
4. " There’s no story? " I explained level gated story parts. " I didn’t realize this game was made for kids between 3 and 4. "
5. " I’m bored, I’m only level 6 and I have nothing left to do… "

And that’s how a new player received NPE.

Yes, I’m sure with you explaining all that to him, and obviously you weren’t at all biased, you’ve definitely got a case study there.

My friend came back to the game, which he left because he didn’t like it. He’s level 15 today and likes it much better. The difference is, I didn’t tell him a bunch of stuff about how much better it used to be.

The real test will be the bulk of the people after the free trial who go on to buy the game. If it’s more than previous trails (significantly more) than Anet was right.

I didn’t tell him anything biased, but rather how things work. Just because I’m not praising the NPE the way you do doesn’t mean I’m all against it.

He might be one in a million, but the NPE won’t attract people from other games, ANet must be aiming for a totally new audience.

I don’t buy this at all. My friend is currently playing DDO and he played Guild Wars 1 before. He’s not totally new.

First of all, there are five starting areas. The cow thing is one event in Queensdale and you can complete it without ever dancing for a cow.

Your friend from WoW who said he had to wait to unlock stills was stupid is really strange, because you don’t get a billion skills up front in WoW either, you get more skills as you level. So I don’t get that at all.

If it’s all the same too you, I’ll wait for some actual evidence instead of your anecdotal evidence of one, offset by my anecdotal evidence.

He happens to prefer human characters, is it strange? I don’t like Charrs, Asura, and Sylvari. I assume I can’t enjoy 100% of the game if I don’t like every class and test every place? The cows are one event, but more generally the first most people do.

I don’t play WoW, so besides writing what my friend told me, I can’t really say if he’s right or wrong.

As I said, he might be one in a million and we’ll only know what results “NPE + free weekend” give later on.

Again, you seem to believe that if it’s different from your point of view, it’s not true/logical. Fact is, most people aren’t like you or your friends. I don’t see why my friend shouldn’t give reason A not to love the game since you believe reason A is biased. Also, you ask for evidence but you provide as much evidence as I do: “my friend thinks/my guild believe” and that’s all. I would be quite surprised to see any of your guildmates come here and discuss the problem. I would gladly give you any evidence you want as soon as I will have any evidence supporting each and every of your argument in every topic on the forum, because besides some “I believe that it’s good because I’m not like you and coincidentally my friends like the game more too” chattering, you don’t provide much subject matter.

Vayne.8563:

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Changes are sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the supposed better (which end up being worse).

I invited a friend of mine to test GW2 during this free “weekend”. He is an avid WoW player but decided to try a game without subscription. He was so eager to play… Until he tested.

1. " So I have to wait to unlock skills? That’s stupid. " I explained. " Right, I didn’t know I was too dumb to read a description or try more than two skills at a time… "
2. " I am dancing in front of a cow… I feel stupid. " I explained about the bundles being too complex. " I can use a credit card but not a bundle when a message pops up, right. But it’s good: I can’t use more than two skills so… "
3. " No stats bonus while leveling? There’s no need for leveling then. " I explained the stats burst. " Ok, so you’re strong, then weak, then super weak, then strong, then weak, then super weak. Why don’t they just buff stats at lvl80? "
4. " There’s no story? " I explained level gated story parts. " I didn’t realize this game was made for kids between 3 and 4. "
5. " I’m bored, I’m only level 6 and I have nothing left to do… "

And that’s how a new player received NPE.

Yes, I’m sure with you explaining all that to him, and obviously you weren’t at all biased, you’ve definitely got a case study there.

My friend came back to the game, which he left because he didn’t like it. He’s level 15 today and likes it much better. The difference is, I didn’t tell him a bunch of stuff about how much better it used to be.

The real test will be the bulk of the people after the free trial who go on to buy the game. If it’s more than previous trails (significantly more) than Anet was right.

I didn’t tell him anything biased, but rather how things work. Just because I’m not praising the NPE the way you do doesn’t mean I’m all against it.

He might be one in a million, but the NPE won’t attract people from other games, ANet must be aiming for a totally new audience.

Changes are sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the supposed better (which end up being worse).

I invited a friend of mine to test GW2 during this free “weekend”. He is an avid WoW player but decided to try a game without subscription. He was so eager to play… Until he tested.

1. " So I have to wait to unlock skills? That’s stupid. " I explained. " Right, I didn’t know I was too dumb to read a description or try more than two skills at a time… "
2. " I am dancing in front of a cow… I feel stupid. " I explained about the bundles being too complex. " I can use a credit card but not a bundle when a message pops up, right. But it’s good: I can’t use more than two skills so… "
3. " No stats bonus while leveling? There’s no need for leveling then. " I explained the stats burst. " Ok, so you’re strong, then weak, then super weak, then strong, then weak, then super weak. Why don’t they just buff stats at lvl80? "
4. " There’s no story? " I explained level gated story parts. " I didn’t realize this game was made for kids between 3 and 4. "
5. " I’m bored, I’m only level 6 and I have nothing left to do… "

And that’s how a new player received NPE.

The only problem I see in some of their statement is that most of the time it’s just wind.

“We need more communication!” “Here we communicate!” “Ok so what about problem x?”
Behavior 1: “We can’t say/Nothing’s off the table”
Behavior 2: “I can’t hear youuuuu!”
Behavior 3: “We do communicate.”

I’ve seen some posts in the lore section actually answering things people were wondering, this is communication. I’ve seen some people saying “I’ll send your feedback” and then see a change, this is communication. We’ve had a communication surge after the whole community got on fire. And now? Well, I haven’t seen anything really promising anymore :-/

Like in my job, when my customers ask “so, how’s the translation going?” I give them a slight update on my work “chapter 7 is 60% done”, or “I had to rewrite chapter 5”, I’m not going all “I’m working on the translation, nothing is off the table/I can’t say yet not to spoil the book”. It doesn’t have to be all black or all white, we would like some grey announcement to know we are not left out for something unrequested.

CureForLiving.5360:

Only watched the anime but from what I picked up in the wikia it’s not really demon flesh, rather the flesh of the Asarakam (Dragon Kin) is used to produce a parasite which infects human to create a Yoma whose flesh is then placed into a human to produce a claymore. But yeah I get where you’re coming from.

Let’s say I summarized inaccurately not to be too heavy, but thanks! (and you should read the manga, while I loved the anime the manga is faaaar better ^^)

draxynnic.3719:

Strictly speaking, at this point, if a hypothetical dragon magic using class had their own story that started after Arah Explorable, then I COULD see it working as someone that’s been cleansed since Twitchy (possibly even starting at or near to 80 similar to WoW’s death knights, only available to players that have another character at appropriate level). However, I’m not convinced it will add enough mechanically for it to be worth it.

Incidentally, regarding the idea of wielding two-handed swords in one hand while punching with the other – I don’t think that’s really necessary. Such skills could always just have the character remove a hand from the sword, punch, and put their hand back on the sword. Or half-swording techniques could be employed to bash the enemy with the hilt. A better method of incorporating unarmed combat, though, would be the introduction of a ‘brass knuckles’-type weapon.

It was more from an aesthetical point of view. But to avoid the creation of a new fighting stance, of course these characters could simply remove a hand from the sword.

A higher up from Cantha could escape and ask for help in Tyria. A small “army” could go there (the key to the entre would be Belinda’s sword as a sign of Canthan heritage?) and we would need to convince some people to trust non human races, it could be that smooth.

Also, about mixed cultures… I wonder how the people who prevented Cantha from appearing in Divinity’s Reach now see the mix of Belinda’s Japanese sword and the heaviest Chinese-inspired outfit…

CureForLiving.5360:

Actually I think the change more had to do with creating a single cohesive narrative chapter that could be played right through where previously the story would be broken up by you having to firstly gain another level or two.

Well… End of Arc 2 as a human, we get a mail from Anise who says “Make all haste to (Jennah’s) throne room in Divinity’s Reach”, but the trick is I have to level up around 6 or 7 levels before attending. While I would only have to level 1 or 2 levels before NPE. I imagine my character writing “Nah, too weak, gimme some time in EotM and I’ll be right there”…

^This.

After the huge problems with communication, they communicated… But now it has been a while since we had news or anything.

I don’t mind waiting 6 months for something that I know is coming, because having 6 months with no news is a bit depressing…

Defeated people are just knocked out unconscious, they’re not really “dead”. Therefore the idea of the ghost doesn’t seem to work…

To be honest, some parts of the whole job of creating a game can be done better and for less money than the actual people working for the game: if I was given 1g every time I saw a bad translation in French, I would have been able to buy the whole gemstore with just in-game money… Sometimes it’s clearly Google Translation, because some translations in French really suck…

New skills and weapons would already be better than nothing, but all we got is the same stew (and new expensive useless healing skills).

GW2 suffer from the same disease as other games nowadays: sparkles on a simple shoebox.

While the game is astonishing in many ways (graphics, animations, details, combat mechanics, to name some), most time was used to put a lot of sparkling things, and the story was a bit left out (aka rushed missions and dungeons).

GW1 was uglier but I was the one to shape Tyrian history! In GW2? I felt I was just a witness and skipped most dialogues without losing any detail… So yeah lore wise GW1 was far better than GW2…

Wanderer: anything but a mount related class! XD Actually the term was first used for mounted infantry, but later was also used for foot soldiers. However I chose the name as a reference to Final Fantasy and I’d gladly welcome any suggestion

Konig: you’re absolutely right indeed. I believe that nobody would actually care about other races not being plainly involved in the past storylines.

All I actually wish for is some renewal of gameplay and lore: why the last two years have been fun, my friends and I end up doing the same things over and over again… Thanks for all your comments!

I totally got the point now, thanks. Too bad, I wanted a Claymore-like warrior

However, Largos and Tengu cannot become playable characters in the PS: during Zhaitan era, Tengu were neutral and not involved at all in the fight against an ED (they only thought of helping after Mordremoth awakening), and for the Largos… It wouldn’t make sense since we would be talking to Sayeh al’Rajihd like we are not part of the Largos.

I do agree that GW2 is taking another path, but we have two choices: either we won’t have characters that could witness what already happened, or we won’t have any new race at all :-/

Deception and manipulation… These love stories are faaaake

nihavel.6592:

Yes, Beyond was more lore centered, but i’m not sure for “longer”.
I’ve complete both in few days in a whole run and few hours to complete every release, like LS1 & 2 after all.

Anyway WoW has 10 years and still alive and destiny devs said game will live for 10 years… Only ArenaNet Devs knows when we will have whole story in own hands. It’s a “problem” of every online game.

I do agree my point of view is biased: I played 3 times less in GW1 than in GW2 yet the story was more complete in GW1 than GW2…

However, PvE content in GW1 was longer to me: I remember missions that lasted for at least an hour. In PS/LS, each instance barely last more than 15 minutes… and does not bring much lore.

I do wish GW2 to thrive for many years, unfortunately for those who care about the game, it might be without them: we can’t spend most of our time killing critters… So far, most updates hit next to the core of what most IG people want, not bull’s eye… There have been fixes of things that were fine, of things that do needed some attention, but barely any fix regarding broken things. At that rate, most veterans (more importantly players since GW1) will leave the game, and newcomers will come and go. Actually that’s how gaming industry works nowadays: profit before loyalty.

Give it 3 days, depending on your problem. After 72h, you can submit a bump to your ticket.

nihavel.6592:

Anyway, if anyone played GW from start must remember there aren’t any title system from start and it had several change, and with EotN (aug 2007) until GW2 release (aug 2012) there was years of nothing (just beyond release).
5 years of nothing.

I prefer a well-time-distribute expansion (‘cause i’m sure every dragon have an own expansion) instead a all-in-2-years-than-nothing GW1.

“Just beyond release”… Actually Beyond was far longer than LS1, and far more lore-centered…
Every dragon their expansion? I want to know the whole story yet waiting 15 years to complete a game is a bit… Too much, is it not?

phys.7689:

and lets be really honest here, which skill is it that you feel is of great quality in this game? I mean i like some skills in this game, but they are not any better designed than skills in gw1.
In fact i would usually say its the combat mechanics that shine in this game, the majority of skills are usually pretty lackluster.

To me, at least 60% of skills are useless just because they are not effective. GW1 was maybe a balance nightmare, but it’s stabilized somehow now. What don’t they take some skills from GW1 and transpose them in GW2? I mean, the effect might be the same (for example Meteor Shower).

The fact the builds are very limited enhances the impression the game does not advance… And counting useless skills, what do we end up with?
GW1 skillbar: 8 fully customizable slots to choose from 1315 skills + an auto-attack.
GW2 skillbar: 5 skills forced by the weapon, 1 “less useless” healing skills, 1 “not so bad” elite, and 3 utilities to choose from 20 skills (most of which are useless to be effective). In all, we only end up choosing 3 utilities that are effective, not because they suit our tastes…

What I don’t get is how people can be confused with “kitten , I failed that mission, maybe if I gained one or two levels I would be able to pass it…”

Now they have to be told “Nah, you’re too weak and unskilled to be able to continue. Gain 10 levels and you’ll be able to continue”…

In GW1 we were a strong follower of very strong people. In GW2, we are the boss and killer of Zhaitan. I am a Mesmer and I can barely keep 3 clones/phantasms alive. Kasmeer and Anise can create 10 clones. I’m supposed to be the most powerful person around yet I feel underpowered. Also I’m supposed to be the boss and I keep following my gang around…

I don’t feel like the hero nor a pawn. I just happen to be there at the right time to witness the events.

Also as I stated on another topic, the fact that we barely have access to full customization of our characters does not make the game more interesting at all.

Awesome topic: it’s clear and well explained, kudos!

I do agree with you all and I must confess that the only thing that keeps me playing is WvW with my friends. Unfortunately, most of us are getting bored waiting for the LS to continue, as well as the problems created with the new patches (we can’t even play to only aspect we like anymore because of lag).

I really hope that ANet will kitten our mouth releasing something huge that has been hidden for months. We need a renewal of our experience: I’ve completed only one PS so far (most my characters only played till the end of the racial part). What story awaits us then? LS2! I do appreciate the story in itself and I understand it takes time to code it. But I would prefer to wait 6 months for something I know will be long and fantastic rather than having small content every two weeks.

Also, more than just the story, class development is lacking: we only got two (expensive!) useless healing skills… I need variety in my build, and I wanna be able to customize my character: so far I can only choose 3 skills, the rest of the skillbar is forced unto me just because I use them “because there’s nothing better”. Most skills are barely useful, therefore I won’t choose something that makes me weaker just for the sake of having a different build. (Sorry I went a bit off topic)

I would summarize my idea as such:
The LS is a good idea, clumsily executed, and it doesn’t bring anything thrilling beside gem store items. I’m sad the game is getting désignes for casual, uninvolved players that do not hesitate to pay for what is ripped from the game.

You’re absolutely right, but doesn’t the PS completely prevent any addition to the game?

It would only work for new races (they could have joined during Zhaitan’s era), but every class has been known for quite some time, so either “we” discover new fighting styles that could not have experienced Zhaitan’s era as we saw it, or they could simply add some and change the story because after all it’s just some lines of code and pixels…

Keeping in mind that if they were to add something that would respect the PS, it is easy to believe that we have now the complete cast of races and classes: we will never use Largos, or Tengu, and we will never discover new fighting styles as they do not fit in te timeline. Plus, we will have to wait until the 3rd dragon to maybe get something new: new races/classes don’t fit in the PS, and they would be obliged to wait until lvl80 (and use 90g/10 bucks) to join in the battle against Mordremoth…

After all in GW1 a ritualist or a dervish could experience Prophecies storyline. Sometimes it requires a tiny sacrifice to add something new.

Back on topic
My idea was that each attunement would increase the character’s power, just like Lich Form or Tornado. The mechanic of the class I presented might appear underpowered but if would need constant attention to the bar and strategic use of the attunements: if used too early the characters would be caught mid-fight with conditions on them, if used too often the characters could be downed.

Regarding corruption, Sylvari are resistant to ED’s corruption, maybe some studies from the asura could have brought to light what makes the Sylvari incorruptible? They would then, with the help of the Pact, find the knowledge to make it stable and viable when implemented in other races, as well as a few volunteers to try out their new discoveries.

And thank you very much for your comments

/ Reserved for development if needed /

Greetings to all.

I wanted to add my two cents on the “we want a new class” & “we want a 3rd heavy class” debates. It’s quite difficult to add a new class while respecting the lore and without making use on classes that existed in GW1… or other games.

Therefore, I will base my suggestion on a manga I particularly love, Claymore (link provided for those who don’t know the story).

In short: it’s about genetically modified warriors, whose creators used demons’ flesh and blood to create half-human half-demon fighters. They can release a bit of this demonic power to increase their abilities, yet at a cost: they might turn into demons, Awakened Beings, themselves.

Therefore, I present you my third heavy class.

Dragoon (actually I can’t find something good enough, so it’s that for the moment)

Lore
Zhaitan was defeated, and another dragon awoke short after. After all this time, there were still five dragons free to destroy everything. Tyria knew what they were capable of. But what if the best way to destroy these dragons was to… use their power? The Pact managed to recover samples of each and every dragon: Zhaitan’s flesh, Jormag’s and Kralkatorrik’s corruptions, Mordremoth’s vines, Primodus’ lava, and Bubbles’ scale. With these samples, they could create new fighters using their enemies’ weapons: thus was born the Dragoon. Time to fight fire with fire…

Abilities
Dragoons are able to attune to dragons, granting them special capabilites and boosts in some stats. However, these attunements come at a cost. Dragoons have a Corruption bar, which fills slowly (for about 30 seconds) when they are attuned to a dragon. During 17 seconds, nothing happens, but for the following 13 seconds, Dragoons will become subject to corruption.

• Attuning to Zhaitan (F1) will grant stacks of poison and torment.
• Attuning to Jormag (F2) will grant stacks of chilled and vulnerability.
• Attuning to Kralkatorrik (F3) will grant stacks of confusion and crippled.
• Attuning to Mordremoth (F4) will grant stacks of bleeding and immobilized.
  Ending an attunement (pressing a second time the F-keys) will slowly decrease the Corruption bar (1.25 times faster than filling it). If the bar reaches 100% the character is downed. Attunements also modify the characters’ appearance: the Dragoon’s right arm will display signes of the ED’s corruption: a branded arm, a corpse-like arm, an arm made of ice, and an arm twisted in vines.

Weapons
Dragoons cannot swap weapons and can only use two weapons.

• Greatsword
  While it’s a two-heanded weapon, Dragoons will use it with only one hand. They can also use their other hand to hit the enemy. For example, skill 4 could have Dragoons rush to an enemy and punch them. If the blow hits, Dragoons will hit a second time. In Normal mode, Dragoons will be rather slow but strong.
• Swords main and off-hand
  Dragoons will be faster in attacks but not that strong. They hit fast and accurately. They hit in a small AoE (around 400).

• Both weapon skill sets can be replaced while attuning to a dragon.
  • Attuned to Zhaitan: Dragoons will deal short-ranged conditions.
  • Attuned to Jormag: Dragoons will be able to attack at medium range with ice attacks.
  • Attuned to Kralkatorrik: Dragoons will attack at a short-distance but will be more resistant.
  • Attuned to Mordremoth: Dragoons will be able to attack at long range with vine-oriented attacks.

(I have some ideas for some skills but now I’m just presenting the style).

But what about Primordus and Bubbles? Simple: they are two elites. Dragoons will transform for 20 seconds into a fire being on land and a water being underwater, each of them being granted 5 new skills.

What do you think of my suggestion?

I am already grateful that you’re telling us you are still working on it, sometimes we just need to be reassured to know we are not left out, thanks!

Then there’s another solution… Choose one culture and that’s it, no problem with mixing.

The problem with that racism is that it comes from higher ups, not players or younger audiences.