Guild Wars 2

Rednik.3809:

Seriously, what’s wrong with you people.

Although I laugh about too high LI requirements because they are bs to me, you’ll literally one-shot every boss with groups of 250+ LI.
The problem is that there are still players trying to sneak into your squad with chat codes (and also macros). You want to avoid these because they are deadweight to your run and if you want to get your weekly full clear very fast such individuals will waste a lot of time and lower the mood of and trust in the squad. Something you really want to prevent.

EcoRI.9273:

Like for example in a random fractal group which we kept dying to the boss, people blamed my P/P teef build because its not meta and only scrubs use p/p right? I pointed out my DPS was literaly 2x the next highest, shuts them up instantly. /rant

I’ve started in such pugs groups too from time to time then I realized I don’t want to spend more than one hour for my fractal dailes so I left the party after few minutes.

Ryou.2398:

I will do as I please regardless of what you think I did not ask for advice I asked specifically about celestial gear, to say defensive skills have no use in pve is beyond silly, you can dodge in eso to but I never heard anyone say defensive stats equal relying on them as a crutch hahahaha.

I have the strong feeling you don’t get what they are trying to show you.

My opinion is we don’t need tiered raiding modes.

Astralporing.1957:

It was however really easy to get in the “casual run” groups. And the chance of succeeding was about the same for both kinds of groups. Neither is true for raids however.
Not really. The success chance between more fine-tuned and casual approach groups is much, much bigger. The exclusion may be still player-driven, but the players do have a much stronger basis for it than they had during dungeon times.

The situation between those two modes is not really comparable.

TexZero already replied for me in a common-sense manner, so I’ll keep the rest short:
I was part of the dungeon running system and I totally disagree with you. The chance of succeeding was very much lower in non-meta groups. I’ve seen many groups without reqs disbanding at the Spider Queen or Kholer in AC. For Arah, many groups didn’t even make it to the first boss in P1 (Ooze), CoE was almost only filled with meta and exp groups because the majority of players couldn’t handle the lasers and many more.
Of course, as an exp player you were able to carry some beginners but that’s the same thing for raids nowadays. With my guild – far from being a very good one – we can take 2-3 new players onto bosses with very very short explanations and get them the kill.

Blaeys.3102:

That leaves multiple modes – something they clearly proved is possible with the use of challenge motes in the last wing. It gives accessibility to more professions and playstyles without compromising the actual challenging levels of gameplay.

I disagree here and doubt that would change anything because even in the regular runs these days I never see any scrappers around or the possibility for revenants besides heal revs at Deimos (+ some clever commanders at Cairn).
Also, a look in the past tells us a different story. During dungeon peak time it was almost impossible to run as necro or ranger in groups with faster plays although they already have been easy. These exclusions were player driven and could be bypassed building own groups – same goes for raids now. Of course, they were a player reaction due to balance issues and as such can only be prevented by watering down the content to an extent where nobody would have fun running it more than once or make it a farm fiesta like halloween labyrinth.

FrostDraco.8306:

It’s not nitpicking. And it wasn’t a derail, it was a direct question tied to the subject at hand. If you would like an actual derail, that can be arranged.

It was a derail. Period.

FrostDraco.8306:

How about just admitting it was plain wrong to say so? Or is that too hard? Groups are not always guilds, in fact most groups are not. If you have ever been in a guild, or run one, you would realize they aren’t exactly as reliable as a real static that doesn’t care for the ‘guild’ association. They said “core nit group of people, who think about their builds and skills” verbatim, not a guild.

Nuff said. Get on my level dude.

Was it me who used the words “guilds”? Definitely not!

You questioned my words of raid not being meant to be pugged in the first place with “Pure conjecture” and it’s clear that you have been plain wrong here because a pug isn’t an organized group per definition. It’s not even wrong, you were brutally wrong.
Rethink about your level.

1. Raids weren’t intended to be played successfully with pugs but it’s possible to do so.

2. Pugs are likely to use best compositions after theorycrafting (benchmarks) so it’s obvious these groups are not catering to your wishes.
On the other hand most of the static groups run different classes and have a big amount of diversity during their runs. For example, in my static group we are using a guard on almost every encounter. We also play with necromancers here and there (VG for the fun, W2, W4).

3. Raids are not for newbies. There are dungeons and T1 fractals you can choose. With time you will work your way up to T4 and you should be able to raid.

So, I would recommend to look for a static group otherwise you have to gear up some of the actual meta classes if you want to be able to pug a lot.

Stop nitpicking and derailing the thread although the message of the devs was clear: It’s challenging group-oriented content so raids rather tend to be up for guilds than random people.
Nuff said.

mazut.4296:

Yep, Devs stated raids are guild oriented, not pug. But it turned out to be easy to do with randoms.

So, the OP is doing something wrong, or not? ^^

Ashen.2907:

FrostDraco.8306:

Vinceman.4572:

Raids weren’t meant to be pugged.

Pure conjecture.

Dev statements leading up to raid release seemed to support his comment.

Ty, I was late.

Î have 0 problems to find groups at the weekend. You don’t even need to have many LIs.

Also remember yourself: Raids weren’t meant to be pugged. It’s a cool thing that it’s possible but it wasn’t intended to do so.

zealex.9410:

Vinceman.4572:

Feanor.2358:

I can agree on this. A lot of T4 players just get carried. But I’m not sure they are persistent enough to aim for Ad Infinitum. In any case, I was speaking mostly about the serious FotM players. Of course, not all of them raid. But I’m certain they could, if they tried.

100% true!

What was this guy’s point? On what subject? To lazy to find the starting point of the discussion xD

Don’t understand your difficulties. Everything is easy to follow.

1. LFG sometimes also closes automatically if there is one joining and immediately leaving an advertised group of one lonely player.

2. Maybe your lfg description/written words were offending to other people?

Feanor.2358:

I can agree on this. A lot of T4 players just get carried. But I’m not sure they are persistent enough to aim for Ad Infinitum. In any case, I was speaking mostly about the serious FotM players. Of course, not all of them raid. But I’m certain they could, if they tried.

100% true!

I don’t tell you what to require, it’s all your choice. Just saying that such requirements are bs as hell and lead to several issues we can see coming up in this subforum from day to day.

Mel.3064:

Vinceman.4572:

Demanding 300+ is indeed ridiculous and that’s coming from me, a dedicated raider with full clear on every week.
I avoid such LFGs because the probability is higher that those groups need to be carried.

Works fine for me in most weeks, all 13 bosses in 3 hours or less.

You achieve the same with less. Just saying.

Demanding 300+ is indeed ridiculous and that’s coming from me, a dedicated raider with full clear on every week.
I avoid such LFGs because the probability is higher that those groups need to be carried.

Astralporing.1957:

It’s a game. The very idea that you should sacrifice your fun for the sake of a game is a complete corruption of what the game should be.
If a game is trying to make you do an activity that makes the game less fun, then someone seriously failed at the design stage.

And you can also argue with it: It’s a game, no need to get a special armor/weapon or anything else. If you just want to have fun in this game, play the stuff you like and pass legendary armor. It’s not that hard and it doesn’t hurt. To give up a claim is a virtue.

Pride.1734:

Might as well not post at all if thats all you are gonna say.

Just wow! He is offering advices so you can examine it very easily by yourself but instead you refuse to benefit from it and answer him unpolitely.
Seriously, don’t expect any further help.

Back in the days I needed 3 months for my first legendary and it was one single weapon. In my opinion this time gate is fair enough. Acquiring legendary weapons is a joke nowadays.

Btw. most raiders have their full clears on Monday, Tuesday & Wednesday so there’s enough time for them getting the other stuff.

Plus just a kindly reminder:
It was announced 1.5 years ago that you’ll need legendary insights to craft the armor. Dunno but ppl who raided every week are about to have 600 LI if I’m not mistaken. And they haven’t had the chance to get 13 every week in the past.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NikeEU.7690:

No problem with legendary armor in other game modes. Just as soon as I can get the pvp legendary backpack in raids I’ll be happy with the trade off.

You can have a legendary back item in fractal instead of PVP if that game mode is not your cup of tea. At least you have an option regarding game mode for that legendary slot.

The PvP backpack is way more beautiful than the fractal backpack I already have.

That’s my opinion.

Ashen.2907:

Vinceman.4572:

Additionally it’s ok to criticize his opinion because he is plain wrong and is still not able to substantiate his thoughts.

Of course.

Attacking the person is something else entirely.

Saying he is wrong is attacking? Ok, we are on a whole new level.

Ashen.2907:

Vinceman.4572:

what is “based on what I see”.

Already answered in my previous post. It is a subjective perception. Essentially an opinion, labeled as such.

And such opinion is no argument to a constructive discussion he is always demanding.

Additionally it’s ok to criticize his opinion because he is plain wrong and is still not able to substantiate his thoughts.

Ashen.2907:

The instant he used the phrase, “based on what I see,” he has labeled his comments, quite clearly, as subjective perception, or interpretation rather than as objective fact. People posting an opinion, and clearly labeling it as such, are acting perfectly appropriately for a discussion forum.

Oh come on!

Then please enlighten us what is “based on what I see”. How can somebody determine decreasing numbers of raiders without having straight up valid numbers?

Tbh that is pure propaganda and doesn’t serve to a fundamental argument much less to a constructive discussion.
And Blaeys is the one who persist on such a discussion plus mentioning this in several posts from the past.

Scipio.3204:

…something that should be deleted but most likely won’t due to unknown reasons…

Then tell me why all the people with 450LI+ still raiding. It’s more than obvious that it’s not because they are aiming for their 4th set or would you disagree here? ^^

Blaeys.3102:

When you call me out by name and call me untrustworthy, that is a personal attack – something I am getting very tired of from a small group of posters. If you cannot debate the points, you turn the attack onto the person making them. It’s sad.

See, you put up a claim, I quote from you: “the number of current raiders…is considerably down based on what I see in game.”
Furthermore: “with a small spike coming next week because of leg armor – and then dropping off hard as raiders tire of the content”.

You have 0,0% proof at all and write such stuff in a forum where everybody else can read and get his information from. You are implicating a wrong picture of the raiding community and you handle without true facts!
Either this goes with a direct intention of you or it’s just acting carelessly. No matter what this cannot stay unanswered and uncorrected.

So, you got countered by me and instead presenting facts in the next post, you report the objection to the forum administration. What about bringing facts, not emotions or personal thoughts with no evidence?

“I see it in game” – What source is that with how much reliability? Please tell me.

Blaeys.3102:

It is stuff like this that keep alot of people from actually posting on the forums.

Seriously, I haven’t seen bad behaviour in months here when somebody started to argue with valid arguments and reasonable thoughts. But if someone is coming up with blatant rubbish, as I have seen some from time to time, it’s no surprise that he doesn’t receive a kind stroke.

Blaeys.3102:

..what I see in game…

Uhm…
What are you seeing in game? Somebody counting raiders in the aerodrome? ^^
The LFG section of raids is the one with the most entries besides fractals and open world Central Tyria squads. Additionally Baghawans numbers of active users is not as low as was expected for me – and those numbers are just for one single dps meter from the market!

Blaeys.3102:

with a small spike coming next week because of leg armor – and then dropping off hard as raiders tire of the content).

Highly questionable because the huge majority of raiders is playing them for fun not for the armor.

The thing is, Blaeys, you always pretend to be objective and sober but with statements, half-truths and wrong assumptions with no proof at all and out of nowhere – like we can read above – you are noncredible to me and I wouldn’t trust you any single second!

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Vincermann – it depends on how you raid. If you got good static squad then two nights might be all you need for weekly 13 li. And i don’t meant whole nights, just 2-3h.

Dude, look at his posting history and then you know what I mean. You don’t join a static group, go through all wings in 2-3h and collect 300 LI till today if you hate/don’t like raiding.

2 sets means 300 LI. If there’s no addiction but pain to get those and still going for it we can honestly speak about someone behaving very unhealthy. Seriously, from the standpoint of professionalism this approach is pathological.
Holy crap, this is a game.

It was always clear that Legendary Armor was only tied to raids. Every other assumption is wrong and demonstrate the incompetence of gaining information from the available sources (homepage, reddit, massively, forums).

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

After reading this reply of yours I can say you pretty much made my point about you not being able to read.

Was nice reading your monologues tho…

Yo, have a nice evening as well. Hope you get over your frustration about legendary armor & raids.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

It is hard if it is one of the last motivation to play the game you have left… Of course, I’m already close to letting go anyway. I like that leisure. At least I use to. But the changes make it harder and harder to motivate me…

Well, I should start crying then for having to grind mats and stuff for all those legendaries. I hate it too and would rather appreciate if I could have the weapons almost instantly. But do you know what? This is a stupid idea for most of the people in the game, especially for those who already completed all weapons and went through that horrible grind. Same goes for me with SAB tribulation mode, PvP & WvW achievements and some other crappy PvE collections with grinding stuff.

So, here is my attitude: I respect it. I respect that I won’t have every legendary weapon in this game. On the one hand it’s a bit sad but on the other hand, I can live with it. Why? Because it’s a fricking game. I move on and I don’t care about it any longer. This is something I’m claiming for you and some others. You won’t behave in this way, it’s okay but I’m very pleased that at least Anet wouldn’t cater your way either due to belonging to a very very small minority.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Why such a poor and blatant straw man? I never blamed you about anything. I merely explained to you why your reply about the game not being one for me since I was a loner was quite out of place considering you are in fact the strong minority here that enjoy structured group content.

I haven’t brought in the straw man. You talked about PvP and such stuff not me. And I wasn’t also pointing out that all those people cannot have fun in their modes and stuff. PvP stays the same, just without one armor. WvW stays the same, just without one armor. PvE without raids stays the same, just without one armor. It’s just one fricking armor you won’t get if you don’t raid. If that is too hard to live with you have to leave the game, go on. That’s very much ok for me. Disproportionately high illogical but nevermind.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Is it me or you just can’t read properly? I repeat again, I have no problem with raids.

Yeah, now it’s clear. You want the armor. You probably won’t get it. That’s ok. Then you don’t get it.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Well, to be fair and to answer you in the same kind you do, you aren’t forced to read my posts (you already do not bother that much from what I can read) and can certainly abstain from replying you know…

Beside, the major reason this thread reappear without end is quite simple: too many keep invalidating legitimate frustrations.
So instead of seeing the topic slowly die, they feed it and renew the frustrations.
I can see why, and what is at stake that prevent the topic to go to rest, I’m sure you know too, but I’ll leave it at that for now.

As long as there only are some dispersed players + the same people reappearing in those threads I feel amused because the former group is most likely never coming back to their own threads due to finding a way into raiding while the others still hammering around with many bad arguments leading to 0 success for their goal because the company won’t listen to them.
#feelsgoodman

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I guess you can argue it to a point, but I would reply 2 things to you here:

1) I don’t see you propose anything better.

Do I/we have to? Is there a rule saying there have to be some most important factors?

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

2) Success in life, as well as in raid, is mainly going to be a matter of efforts. It is pretty rare to see people invest tons of time and energy into something they do not enjoy. The motivation for the carrot needs to be pretty strong to overcome this. If you do not invest time in something, no matter how talented you are, you won’t get any results.

And of course, it need to be possible for you to be were it matters when it matters. Of course you can tell your boss to put his job were the sun doesn’t shine because you are so willing to do raid every Monday night with a group you met, but most of us won’t cross that line for a leisure. And most group will also ask for a specific time commitment to accept you… bugger…
Sure, you can pug as a newby and organize practice groups yadayada. But, in all honesty, are you going to be willing to spend so much random time for something that isn’t your cup of tea to begin with (with the likely result of such groups on top of it)? And do you think pugging like that will help you gain positive experience that will improve your disposition toward that content? Me neither.

If you enjoy the content and can commit to a group schedule, skill and willingness will more than likely go up and the success you will ripe will reinforce everything. And so on and so forth.

Nobody needs to play raids. It’s a game. Raids are challenging group content for the target audience. It’s not content for the audience that doesn’t want to have a challenge in the game.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I think I was not clear, so i’ll try and make it clearer…

Outside of the game lies a world that is made of obligations that indeed ask you to play along other humans in a structured fashion (my job ask me to help other humans btw and I like doing that). However, in a time and space of leisure, I might be less willing to compromise is the point I think you are missing (or just do not care grasping)…

Of course if for you the only variable in the equation is willingness to play, and that it is not subject to taste and time, it would make sense to view the wold the way you do… but as explained above, I do not agree with you and nor would my RL clients…

The thing is, people will do group content without too much fuss. It is structured and organized content that is the problem for them.

Then they just don’t play it and go on with their stuff. Is it so hard to relinquish legendary armor which isn’t giving better stats? I mean, if you don’t want to invest time and effort, just don’t do it. You can play any other content without having disadvantages. Hell, it’s even faster to exchange armor pieces than changing stats on the leggy armor plus putting in the right runes again.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Just take a look at PVP or wvw… or PVE… everything in this game actually. If what you say is true, 80+% of ANET customers should take a hike and leave the game to the few PVE and wvw raiders as well as PVP pro league players. kitten you PVP yolo players, and wvw roamers or zergers. kitten you typical PVE player… Can ANET confirm that GW2 is not for us plz? I mean, I don’t want to be a burden to your real players…

Thank you.

Dunno what you what to blame me for. I never said Anet should stop developing content for PvP/WvW/RP/other PvE stuff. And nothing stops ppl of playing these things because there is an existence of raids.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

You really aren’t great at grasping the point. But to be fair, I suspect it’s convenient for you to play it that way. I see that I’m wasting time with you tho…

Of course… after all, you clearly seem to dislike raids and have trouble reliably getting into raid groups…

Yeah, I really don’t see your problem with raids here since every game mode has its right to exist.

You want a leggy armor for WvW? I can understand it but then stop coming into the raid forum blaming the raiding community etc. Get your WvW buddies together and make threads in the WvW forums & reddit. Make some big noise there, it would help much more!

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

The two most important factor to raid success isn’t skill at all.

That’s your own subjective classification tbh. Imho there are not one or two most important factors.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

The very first factor is going to be: Do you enjoy coordinated group content or you prefer doing your own things when you play a MMO? If you do not like to interact with other human beings (shocking coming from introverted computer gamers right?), it starts really badly for you and it make investing time and energy a hell of a lot harder.

Sorry, this content was announced as Challenging Group Content. kitten , it’s not content for a single player. If someone wants to play a single player MMO then maybe GW2 and others aren’t the right games for him/her.
I also think that the number of introverted computer gamers is not that high that it legitimates to serve all content to them on a silver plate, especially not in GW2 – what a silly argument. It’s simple, if you want to have it, do something for it and get over your timidness. Outside of gaming there are thousands of situations where you have to communicate with other people. Almost everybody is able to do so there too – I factor out people with diseases but that’s a different thing. Just a little example: Somebody in a wheel chair also isn’t able to play soccer with others but there are possibilities to play other sports stuff like wheel chair basketball.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

The next factor is going to be how available you are to commit to a fixed schedule. Not everyone can do this to the same extend and it makes raiding soooo much more easier and less frustrating.

You don’t need a fixed schedule. If you cannot get in a stale group to get all 13 weekly kills it’s possible to pug them. I do that every week before I run with my guild on Tuesday & Thursday. Even beginners can pug Escort, VG, Gorse, Mursaat Overseer and Samarog. For all of them there are many low LI groups besides the 200+ + Deimos KP bs groups.

There’s also that one hint: If you lack some of the required LIs, whisper to the commander that you are able to carry your own weight with some LI less. Some of my friends are doing it every week. They have been rejected rarely.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

If you have answered no to both of the above, it’s going to be painful to get that armor. Like, really painful…

Yeah, and in the end it’s not as painful as you want to present here.

My guild is helping new raiders several days every week just for fun. We had amazing success and brought first kills to many players now. There’s almost nothing cooler if you see (& hear in TS) happy players after getting their first LI. We also recruit from time to time and people who have killed Escort, VG and rarely Gorse are beating 10/11 out of 13 bosses after 4 weeks of playing raids.

You can summarize as followed: People that really want to raid and get bosses down find a way – and relatively easy.
The only ppl against raids are the ones who don’t try, just blame it for some reasons and still don’t put a little bit effort into it.

Rednik’s criticism only reflects the attitude of embittered players – nothing more. Every other player gave it a go and realized that getting in touch with raids is not a magic thing or a big hurdle.

ButterPeanut.9746:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I have nothing against skill requirement to get anything. However, why only through raid, a niche content? And why couldn’t they have been a lot more transparent about it when advertising it?

Raids niche is the fact that its challenging content…

They have been 100% clear that legendary armor will require raiding since its announcement before HoT launch. It has also been all over the forums, reddit, Dulfy, MMOgamer, etc for the past 18 months.

This!

What I find most disturbing and hilarious at once is that there was some sort of crowd (and it’s still here – the same people) wanting to have the legendary armor way before any function & design was announced.
Seems to me like “they bring something and no matter what it is, I have to have it” but after noticing you have to do something you don’t like, this crowd starts to complain.
Horrible, reminds me of the word “Schmarotzer” in german language, dunno the exact translation, “cadger” maybe.

For me the legendary PvP backpack is inaccesssible as hell for only one reason: I don’t like to play PvP modes any longer (after having played one of the top MOBA’s over a certain time).
But I still have the option to do so. I just have to decide: Do I need it so badly – then I’ll give it a try and go to PvP or not. The same is for other people with raids. I think that’s a fair choice for everybody!

apharma.3741:

Oldirtbeard.9834:

Vinceman.4572:

Jski.6180:

Shame its raids only well that we know of…. Is this game become raids wars?

You must be new to the game, it was well known before that raids are the entrance to legendary armor…more than a year now.

You must be newer to the game than me because legendaries have been around longer than raids and it was pretty common knowledge that you didn’t need LIs from raids to make these legendaries because Raids did not exist (back in the good old days).

You must have problems reading, may I suggest an eye check, it’s free for the older generation. He was talking specifically about legendary armour, which ANet announced was going to be tied to raids, I believe they even said it during the big Heart of Thorns streams they did to advertise it.

That’s without pointing out what I thought was blatantly obvious, legendaries are tied to content even in the “good old days”. It was tied to map completion with gen 1 legendary weapons, tied to Heart of Thorns and those currencies with gen 2 and finally raids with the armour.

Ty for helping him out. It turned out that he didn’t understand the content.

Jski.6180:

Shame its raids only well that we know of…. Is this game become raids wars?

You must be new to the game, it was well known before that raids are the entrance to legendary armor…more than a year now.

Baldrick.8967:

I’d have to say that based on those statistics, very few people raid regularly.

I would counter that with Baghawan’s dps meter numbers. “Very few” seems most unlikely to me

Baldrick.8967:

Raiders are much more likely to be game enthusiasts and registered with GW/E, so amongst the overall population we can assume the average number of LI to be much lower.

Wrong assumption – there’s a strong bias. Look at the registered people playing fractals regularly. On the basis of these numbers Anet should delete them instantly because very very very very few players registered on GW/E are playing them.

Jski.6180:

I am just fearful that a small population is controlling a very big part of the game.

Ye, I’m also sad that PvP and WvW as minor game aspect are controlling the way bigger part namely PvE in such extent. We can only hope that they separate PvE from PvP and WvW balancing with the expansion so we can play some distinct builds in PvE again.

Very very unlikely that we get at least one new dungeon in the new expansion. There are no indications or special mysterious announcements for it and we all know the way for instanced content is fractals (5 man) and raids (10 man).

venus.4509:

I have no issue getting exotic, the issue would be doing it with a group of people that would be ok with it. From reading a lot on these forms and what I have seen in the game most people wouldn’t be.

Can only speak for EU but here I haven’t seen any groups insisting on ascended gear since months, same with pinging the gear.
Encounters are known nowadays, most of the mechanics are not very hard and also most of the people already have their mains + toons fully ascended so it’s no problem to take several players in exotics. Sure Gorseval & Keep Construct put a little bit of dps pressure to groups but these are not generally the encounters to start with.

Anet won’t give out numbers.

According to the weekly usages of BDGM (provided by the developer on reddit) the amount of people using this particular meter is surprisingly high although we have to admit that there are definitely some PvP and WvW players using it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/661kll/bgdm_semiannouncement_about_current_statefuture/?st=j1xri197&sh=8e4869b2
On the other hand not every raider is running a dps meter. My personal subjective experience is roundabout 2-4 in pugs while in my guild it’s 5 out of 12 people. Additionally there are some other meters as well thus the number of raiders will be higher.

Blaeys.3102:

Unfortunately, this kind of inexcusable behavior is commonplace in high level raid pugs, and can even rear its head among good friends.

Not true at all. Go to Dragon’s Stand (I did that constantly over the last 3 weeks) and if one tower is not in line with the others, you’ll have that 2-3 rage kiddies among around 60 players playing quietly, trying to help and coordinate the success.
Same with Silverwastes, Fractals, Dungeons (even those days) and not to mention: PvP.

@OP:

You experienced a very rare situation in GW2. Such things happen in every video game. If you are really not abusive you don’t have to worry anything. Just block such individuals and go on. No need to pause the game because you met some bad apples. There are enough friendly peeps out there.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

“play your way” in raids…

Were raids ever announced to be like that?

In addition, we are talking about pugging here because in many static groups the diversity is high and not every guild group is running 2/2/2+ 4. And also here: Raids were never meant to be pugged.

seyhzade.3401:

After these dpsmeters become popular rage and toxic increased.

I have experienced the opposite.

Wrong subforum.

Here you go:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/lookingfor

Blaeys.3102:

In all reality, no matter what people try to justify here on the forums, the issues that existed 10 months ago still exist today – probably to an even greater degree with most LFG groups expecting people to understand everything prior to joining.

Non meta groups are rare – and often strongly discouraged by the raiding community. Meters have given pugmanders a new way to justify kicking people. LI requirements are still a thing , but have been supplanted by minature or title requirements by many groups.

So, again, if you had issues with the raiding scene 10 months ago, I seriously doubt you will find it engaging and less frustrating today.

Seriously Blaeys, this post has revealed that you’re not raiding after all although telling so in the past.
The usage of dps metres has led to a better situation in pugs than before and you rarely see players being kicked due to low dps.
There are enough training & low LI runs and I haven’t seen serious critical threads on reddit for a long time, on the contrary, excited and thankful threads of players that were able to get their first kills.
I also don’t see any non meta group being discouraged by the raiding community because meta players just don’t join these if they don’t feel comfortable. On the other hand I see many experienced ppl joining training runs – many of my guild too – and helping others out. The raiding community is so much better than you are trying to show here.

Cynz.9437:

Define served on silver plate? If player comes knowing mechanics, with proper geared character, plays well and all, how is he any different from a player with 250LI?

The key word is “IF” here. Many of them are not very good, some are even wannabes and convinced of themselves as hell.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Cynz.9437:

At the end both of them would produce same result – killed boss.

At the end this will rarely happen and you know it.

Cynz.9437:

The only difference is that player with low LI would spend hours and days trying to find a group that wouldn’t instantly kick him where 250 LI player could even afk and still get carried in the fight without getting kicked (had too many of those).
Honestly, what a logic.

If you really think you can carry your own weight then build your own squad, ffs!
You cannot blame me and others that I’ve no trust in ppl with low LI because over hundreds of attempts it has demonstrated they aren’t able to get things straight. The overall player with 0-50 and many with 50-100 LIs are not as good as you want us to believe.
If you are such special snowflake, good for you because you will be able to make social/raid contacts very fast and get access to static groups way easier than the average pug.

Cynz.9437:

I am just saying how it was for me and i came to only conclusion that with low LI your only chance is joining a raiding guild.

Nobody said it is easy to get kills when you start raiding. Keep in mind that every experienced & successful raider had hours of hours of wiping before he got successful. There is no need that ppl coming later to the party get all the good things served to them on a silver plate.