Guild Wars 2

Sublimatio.6981:

(rare to common) ac p2 – detha wont trigger the event to deploy traps

It’s not rare to common if you 1. don’t fail the event “Room of Pits” southeast before heading to the boss room, 2. wait to enter into the room before Detha has said her sentence and 3. don’t die on the skip/don’t skip from Foefire’s Heart waypoint to the Hall of Champions.
If you follow these 3 steps 100% correctly, Detha definitely won’t bug.

It also doesn’t fail if you magically run all 3 parts together. I heard that’s possible and I’m sure you know what I’m talking about.

You’re so wrong in many of your listed things, don’t even know where to start correcting.

runeblade.7514:

Raids != Fractals

World isn’t always as easy as you think. It’s still easier to carry deadweight through T4 fractals than through raids.

runeblade.7514:

I can’t learn the skills myself if no one takes me in the first place.

Practice in training runs. If you don’t find one, you can open one on your own!

Nah, they are not obsessed with dps it’s just common sense that the more dps you bring the easier it is to kill a boss. KC with a good amount of dps in the burn phase = 3 phases in total and not a single more. Gorse no updraft = no need to fly outside and walk around like chicken. VG with enough dps = little field rotation = lesser possibility of mistakes and so on. Similar things on the other bosses.
I’m also a fan of playing mechanics properly while most of my guild mates are dps orientated. In the end you need both and in pugs it’s a matter of fitting together or not.

Yeah, I call the “DPS meter create an even more toxic environment” a myth by those who fear to get kicked due to abysmal dps. Let’s be real, I pugged a lot since the usage of meters has been allowed and I’ve yet to see a group that kicks players with at least decent dps numbers. I suck at tempest (I’m often #4 in terms of dps from 4 slots) and still pugged successfully while nobody mentioned anything. A solid rotation with missing things here and there is not hard and won’t be any issue to the usual pug. And most of the groups also know that missing dps can be a mistake of warriors, chronos and druids as well + failing of mechanics by others.
The only kicks I have seen and those were justified when I encountered warriors doing 2k dps. That’s literally pressing autoattack and nothing else. Or tempests below 10k dps with horrible gear sets and no clue how to handle their class.

In my daily T4 today I met a power phalanx strength warrior that died (not downstate, complete death) more than 5 times. He was getting carried so hard I haven’t seen for months and when I gave him the advice that it is not the best thing to go ps warrior melee in fractals without excellent knowledge he just answered with and I quote: “This game is about play how you want.” No sign of regret or thankfulness that he got a free T4 fractal reward, not a single notice of being deadweight for the group which he was so heavily. That makes me sad and this is the attitude that makes players setting up requirements to ensure that those people do not get a free ride or prevent the own group from being successful.

Emperor Palpatine.5329:

Side note – I really hope they will implement mounts in the next exp to see all these let’s not change things people with a cracked face. Just for personal enjoyment of course and then come back to me and tell me…OMG it’s never gonna look like WOW because this is GW2. I’s not about WOW for whatever, it;s about making something that works. So what is wow uses similar systems with I proposed? Who cares? Is it working? Use it
And LFG should not change. I only proposed this for noobs that want to learn the mechanics of the game.

Question: What do you want to achieve with this statement? I just ask because most of us raiders really don’t care about mounts. Is your disputable comment for the average GW2 player? If so, wrong subforum.
I would welcome mounts – I always welcome content or things getting into the game as long as the implementation is on a decent level.
Btw. it’s the casual crowd that hates “change” at most. Implementing your system wouldn’t harm raiders per se but like some other posters and me already illustrated, your system doesn’t promise a better status quo afterwards.

Emperor Palpatine.5329:

So you are probab one of the elitists that think raiding is only for this group of people.

Well, I guess you have never read the official announcement of raids. They are special content and of course not for everyone per design. They are their “ultimative challenge” for groups and that has nothing to do with being an elitist.

Emperor Palpatine.5329:

Don;t tell me what I;ve done and I am doing because you don;t know me. You hav no idea how difficult it was to actually find a guild that could teach me how to raid, and the language barrier is real. People don’t know English and when a non English speakers explains the bastion and all u hear is big d…k stay away it’s kind of difficult. But of course when u identify with the elitists it’s easy to say OMG U are lazy. I call BS on that Sir!

When I got back to raids after a break from them I had only killed VG with not optimal formed groups and without a meta. I joined a total casual guild which was easy as hell and they were only able to kill VG and had good attempts on Gorse if the VG kill of the week was achieved fast. After some weeks I went on because their progress wasn’t the same as mine and I found another guild, used training runs in the LFG and worked towards success. So yes, the entry is hard because you don’t know nothing when you start but the more you get used to it the easier it gets – for everyone. Especially now with guides, training initiatives and builds from quantify.

Answering the english problem: Don’t join such groups or immediately leave them if you can’t communicate with them. But let’s be real this issue is almost never present only a small percentage of players isn’t able to understand the basic things with english language. And even if so, you can still watch videos without sound and see what’s going on on the screen + understand the basic mechanics.
So, I see you are bringing up things that rly aren’t ones. The bs is more on you tbh.
And yes, you can also study the mechanics ingame. I already said: In training runs you can practice and the game also tells you what to do on bosses, guides and videos are an additional help that can – not must – bring you faster to your goal which is killing the boss.

What info do you need from WP and Brazil? I have never needed any information of them when preparing to raid, there are way better sources like guides, reddit threads and other stuff. Dunno why you bring those two up, they aren’t the source you want to use when raiding.

Emperor Palpatine.5329:

I’m not going to explain myself to people that think others should not do a specific content. If you want that develop a game for 100k people, pay like 1000 euros’ a month for support and develp and leave gw2. This is a game for a lot of people and since they are paying customers they should have the same opport as the rest. Guild, friends and reddit?

Has anybody said you should or shouldn’t do specific content? I doubt so. I have the feeling you don’t understand the whole thing. Raids are specific content, yes. Like PvP and WvW, or fractals or dungeons. But that doesn’t mean that if you put 1000 euros per month in the game you should be able to be successful in every aspect of the game.

Another thing: Raids are sane atm., dunno what you are talking about. They have a high popularity and the LFG is always full from afternoon to midnight. Only fractal LFG and open world central tyria-squads can compete against in numbers!
And don’t bring in dungeons. Seriously, they are full of bugs, very old content, were abandoned by Anet with official statement and by the players when Anet capped the reward. Those rewards are back now – a thing that many many players haven’t realized till today – but it was obvious that they are boring as hell for the majority of players after having done them thousands of time.
If one day raids will have the same fate you can’t deny that there will be new content, this is how the life circle goes in games.

Emperor Palpatine.5329:

Are u an actual dev for Anet for just a random guy?
First of all can you please tell me what are these tools of geting into raids? Besides LFG I do not know any other “tool” used for raiding. LFG = cancer.
Blaming laziness of players because of low interest in raids = you just made by above point. Of course I will go and do AB or DS or whatever if I can;t actually raid because I can’t learn it. People want content that is accessible, not something designed for a small group of people. The fact that you will always find other players that are actual lazy is different. For that you can have a kick system based on 60% of the group agreeing. Not all people are lazy Sir. It’s on thing to say “people are lazy” and it’s another to look at this issue as “no training available for raiding”, bit of course it;s always easier to be lazy, blame other people for actual problems instead of looking at the issue with an objective eye. Side note: what is Anet doing anyway with raiding? They wanna keep it for like 100k players that have exp or what? I don;t get it…you would think end game content is something a company is interested in and pushing players to do it.

The system I have explained above. Make a LFR automatic system (like in PVP) that you access and it puts you in a waiting queue. This should only be done for training purposes. In the queue the game will search other players that match your skills based on different criteria (LI, time in game, number of hours, masteries, fractal level etc). A group of 10 players i created and they go and do the actual raid as a noob group. Simple and easy.

The tools are:
- LFG used to look for a training/raid guild for beginner
- forum – the “Looking for” section
- your own guild
- friends
- reddit because there are raid training initiatives

Don’t tell me that you have used all of them properly and conscientiously and you still couldn’t get into raiding.
That’s what I meant with “laziness”. People don’t spend time to do some research and altercate with raids. They just want to “hop in” and *that’s not how raids are working" because this content is more challenging than the rest of the pve game where you can literally press 11111 and win the trophy.

Btw. I wouldn’t call the LFG cancer, on the contrary it’s a superb helping tool.

And yes, raids aren’t content for the majority of players and that’s fine. Raids were developed to give players a more challenging environment in the game that was missing for years!

A basic automated system wouldn’t work so easily like you want to pretend here. No system in the world can really identify if you are exp on an encounter. Where do you set your limit? Done the encounter 5 times? 10 times? 50 times? That’s why people are using LI to get a higher probability of success, of course a 200 LI player can still be bad but most often he knows what he is doing.
Number of hours is also bad because some people are resistent to learning and wipe for hours and hours. Fractal level is also bs because you can push that with doing Molten Boss only to lvl 90.
In the end it’s way better to set your own requirements and let others fulfill these. Way better than to rely on a system with vague indicators and you have to kick 5 out of 10 players because they doesn’t fit at all.

Emperor Palpatine.5329:

What will go away will be the posts by other players (that want to learn the raid but can;t because of elitism and LI ping bla bla). Now they have the chance to learn the mechanic, git gud and once that is done join groups or start ur own whatever and do the kitten raid.

No, people will still complain. It’s not the group that is willing to take effort and try to get things done proactively. It’s the group that opens the LFG try to join random groups and get kicked because they think/want raids are/to be fly-by-content.
We already have enough tools for getting into raiding. People just don’t use them, most often due to laziness. All you have to do is to get out of your comfort zone, afterwards raids will be very easy due to becoming routine.

I still don’t see your “system” which has no specifications at all despite being a “system” being better than joining or creating training runs. You can also differentiate training groups and I have already seen them: “VG training – know mechanics” vs. “VG training – let’s try it out”. With the commander tag you are also able to exclude players that do not fulfill your requirements if made – even for training runs.

Zushada.6108:

All of this leads me to think "huh? what is up with raids and lfg in this game!?

The LFG is not the first thing you should aim for when starting to raid although the advice of Iris is good: Watch out for training runs. Like it was said, you will find many of them later in the week.
Don’t expect to get into a “kill” group over the first days/weeks, this is not how it usually works.

Fyi, raids were never intended to pug in the first place. There was no particular LFG section for raids at start and it was only added because it overfilled the common section which was annoying and groups were asking for an own.
It’s cool you can pug raids and that they are not as hard as it was expected with this announcement but it’s still recommended that the average group plays with 10 decent players and to be successful not many of them should mess up.
Another thing is that raids only get easier with player experience/skill (and ofc balance patches here & there). It’s not like in other games where players get top gear out of it and when the majority has this new gear it’s easier to take new players with them.

So, back to the “I can’t get into raids.”-thing. Every player I’ve met that wanted to get into raiding seriously was successful. They started with the “Looking for”-section here in the forum, were searching at reddit for groups, joined raid training initiatives (see the 2 points before) made up their own squads in the aerodrome, got guildies together or found a nice group in the lfg which explained everything and kept the player. (Last point is rare but it’s also the jackpot). If you don’t invest the time you’ll most likely have a harder experience to get into raiding.
On the other hand if you take the effort it’s more than realistic you’ll find a group that already can clear most (the easier ones like VG, Gorse, Trio, Escort, Cairn, MO, Samarog) or even all of the bosses and you can be integrated very easily according to your own statement that you have been a veteran raider in other games.

Astralporing.1957:

I agree. This has nothing to do with exclusivity of said rewards however.

There needed to be kind of new/eclusive rewards otherwise people would have run raids a few times and then go on with the best reward ratio which is definitely not raiding.

Astralporing.1957:

Dungeons were totally fine without that exclusive content. It definitely wasn’t for dungeon exclusive skins that people were running them. It’s not for fractal skins that people are running fractals now (even the legendary backpack likely has only minimal impact fractal popularity).

So, why exactly raids need to have the drive that so surpasses the same for dungeons and fractals? It’s not like they are (again, supposedly) any more important of a content, right?

I repeat myself but, dungeons – after the setting of the zerker/dps focussed meta – were fine as long as the gold reward and mats + badges weren’t that far behind than farming Silverwastes. Additionally you got/get the rewards per day, not per week like in raids. When Anet decreased the rewards nobody that ran dungeons on a daily routine went into them, from one day to another. Furthermore, you should ask people why they are doing T4 fractals on a daily basis. Most of them are going there for gold, the little chance of asc chests (droprate is exclusively high for fracs) and of course they can be fun.
Delete the amount of gold to maybe 3 and decrease the chance for an asc chest to oblivion or like in WvW/Tequatl I doubt that you will see that many players because fractals are so much fun.
Repeatable content has to be rewarding otherwise players will abandon it. Legendary armor is a good tool to connect replayability with fun + rewards.

People ran dungeons for years because the amount of gold was pretty good and there was nothing that was anywhere near to challenging content. The ratio of rewards compared to difficulty was way better than fractals.
You could see this when Anet changed the dungeon rewards. What happened was they were dead from one day to the other.
If you reduce the exclusivity of the existent legendary armor raids would lose a big amount of their attraction and that’s not what you want as developer. Especially not if the majority of people that wants the armor is taking the effort and there’s only a small group of crybabies that want everything in this game for free.

Actually, with the current meta it is so easy to farm LIs even as a very decent player. If you aren’t able to kill bosses like Sabetha, Matthias, Xera and Deimos, just buy them once (prices are very ok imho) because you don’t need them to kill more than this and then farm your LIs with the easy ones. It’s just a grind then like PvP backpiece, WvW backpiece and less than WvW armor.

Mikali.9651:

I was only looking for a guild to start raiding and it happened that I was invited and being told they will tell me all the mechanics. Then they did what they did. …
Nothing I did was wrong, except the fact it could have been mechanically better…but it’s a matter of muscle memory.

So, you met a bunch of jerks, happens from time to time to anybody pugging (joining random groups) around. I bet they weren’t even a complete guild group otherwise they would have killed the boss with 9 men and rezzing you afterwards. Most likely this was a random squad and almost all of them overestimated their skill level.

Btw. in the 2nd phase (split) toughness doesn’t even matter, so if they were rly asking you about your toughness while you were at red/blue/green VG they had no clue. The phases where toughness matters are the ones when the big VG is there (phase 1, 3 and 5) because then he will follow the one with the highest toughness and only then it is a problem if your group has a chosen tank but VG will follow another player that has more toughness than the original tank.

The best thing is to forget about them and keep going. Everything else is a waste of time. If it bothers you extremely, shut down the pc and take a walk/run after being kicked.

Mikali.9651:

And even here I am seeing comments from people who are trying to put the blame on me by saying toughness isn’t 1000.

The poster you are referring to made a mistake, nothing else.

Mikali.9651:

That being said, should I really go level up completely new class, grind HoT to get Elite, to be able to kill bosses few seconds faster? And when a new patch comes and another class becomes top at DPS I should do the same thing again?
I didn’t think we are setting the new speed records in raids.

Is Warrior viable? Or Thief? Cuz I am not gonna play spellcasters ever, I only like melee.
Should I maybe also buy a new mouse and a keyboard for more precise movements to get 0,2% more DPS?

You don’t need to level up a new class but insisting on playing a guardian only can limit your choices to get into a group. Most pugs and not few raid guild groups are following the meta and want to have clean & sober kills with a good speed. A guard can be pretty useful but you don’t need him with the actual balance situation that’s why ppl prefer other classes.
Warrior is viable but atm almost exclusively in the condition ps version with sword + torch / long bow but yeah, you would also fight at melee range, same goes with thief.

GJ, but you won’t reach anyone of the target audience because casual players most likely never step into a game forum and the rest of the crowd already knows how to.

If this is not another sarcastic troll post I will answer seriously otherwise just ignore it:

Yes, you were mistaken and obviously kicked because not knowing the usual pug procedure.
In pugs you wait with running until every wips runner wrote an “r” for ready in the chat because not every wisp position is easy to run for every player. Of course in T4 everybody should know his/her class, maybe swap utility skills for this short encounter and to run properly but that’s best case. In the past I’ve already seen groups disbanding there due to failing the mechanics several times.
I mean, ok, they could have told you via chat after your first failure but hey, usually you expect everyone to know what to do if he goes straight into the direction of a wisp. You definitely didn’t from their point of view so they kicked you after the 4th attempt to be successful with somebody else.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

There’s “not explained, have fun finding out” and the there is “there is no clue you have to stand in these 5 places and not move or the enemies will spawn infinity”. One is fun, the other is literally a half hour and multiple rage quits before someone showed up who knew what was going on.

Seriously, there is hardly any dungeon mechanic that is not self-explanatory or can be found out in a couple of minutes.

I think the problem here is T3. In this tier you don’t have that many experienced players. Most of them are on the road to T4 and there Subject 6 can still be an issue but not that much than in T3 I guess.

Open your own LFG with your own requirements.

Don’t blame others because theirs are too hard because it’s annoying to wipe over and over again with a new player if you can oneshot bosses with experienced ones.

And the population of raids in general is fine. There are a lot of people that only log into the game for doing raids.

Essence Snow.3194:

That I agree with. We’d want it to partially be a stepping stone to get those players into regular raids to help keep that population healthy. That imo would be the ultimate goal…to get more players into raiding.

Trust me, people that really want to get into raid either have already found their way into them or don’t need a tuned down version. The (pug) meta has so much room for errors/mistakes from 1-4 players that you can easily carry or introduce new raiders to the existent content on the fly with short explanations – sometimes during the fight.
We killed 6 bosses 15 minutes ago with 1 player new to 5 of them and 2 more which were new to 3 of those bosses. Our group is far from being a speedrun or above average group + our main chronotank and 3 other starters weren’t with us in this run.

All you have to do to get into raiding is open your mouth and look out for opportunities.

Astralporing.1957:

Vinceman.4572:

Or the game would be like it is now, just without raids. I prefer the version with them.

Possibly. But then, i’s equally possible that the same would apply to the game with easy mode. And i would prefer the version with it.

I already said and I think most of the raiders agree: An easy mode without rewards besides whites, greens and rares is ok if the development would be done by the LS team assisted by one member of the raid team to prevent problems etc.

Astralporing.1957:

Or it could mean adding devs where there’s not enough of them at the moment (we both know that there’s a lot of that around). Or maybe it meant adding devs on some new projects. Who knows?

For example, the dev(s) that worked on legendary armor could have done a set or two of armor (not necessarily legendary) for the rest of the game instead. So, here, already raids has cost us at least one set of armor.

Or the game would be like it is now, just without raids. I prefer the version with them.

Essence Snow.3194:

Also, since when would it be limited to a single run? There are a lot of people that play this game and they don’t all think alike. While one person might only want it for the story another might like it for another reason. You make it sound like the option to run it again wouldn’t exist. Think about story modes in dungeons. They still get run/rerun by vets and new players.

I don’t think that you’ll find many raiders that are against a story mode with minimal rewards like no mag shards, no asc drops, no minis, no guaranteed exotics but white, green and yellow stuff. I’m also okay with that although in my opinion current raids aren’t that hard as some are trying to say.
The problem of such a story mode would indeed be the wasted dev time because people play it once and no, you can’t make a comparison with story dungeon modes because people are running them thanks to the loot per time, for example AC story, or to unlock explorable mode with their first char or alts. Same principle doesn’t work for raids. Besides that dungeon story modes are also rarely visited by players.
The only thing to get people to rerun raid story modes and to justify development time would be to increase the rewards but then you have to increase the current normal raid rewards as well, a thing Anet would never do although the actual rewards are not very superb, not to speak from running them more than once a week.

I would really like to have a profound solutions and valid ideas – not pipe dreams – on these problems before claiming that a story mode is so heavily needed although the lore can be obtained in a cleared raid instance.

Chris McSwag.4683:

“looking at you 0 cc trash dps no updraft ppl”

Wow, don’t you think that you are a little bit harsh here? I mean, those guys are still getting bosses down and sometimes there’s only a little piece of dps missing so you delay cc just this little bit.
But speaking of “trash” on ppl that clear raid bosses is exactly the kind of childish behaviour we don’t need in this game.

Even with LFG most of the random Arah pug groups without “exp” tag (or more) were disbanding after 15 minutes or later on. Either wiping constantly on the skip to the first boss and 2nd boss especially at path 1 or pre- and post-Alphard at path 2, or struggling hard at Lupi until a good player joined and soloed the boss for them. Man, I was calling Arah my living room, did all 4 paths on a daily basis and hell yeah, I was joining so many unexperienced group to get them their victory.
Of course, for AC paths or CoF p1/2 you were slightly slower than good groups and needed only a couple of minutes more but that wasn’t true for Arah where groups could still be in for 45 minutes to over an hour, even after the zerk change to power, precision and ferocity. I also met premade groups at Simin in path 4 that couldn’t kill her although everybody could after the latest adjustments. Remember that group because I had to leave since they were not able to deal enough damage plus they messed around with sparks. I tried my best in french but it was hopeless. Never forget. ^^

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

The fact that people can’t tell this is satire makes me not want to touch raiding with a ten-foot pole.

Relating to the responses, it was exactly one.

@OP:

You should use quotation marks (“…”) when citating a new or unexperienced player or tell a fictional case otherwise posts like this one are a little bit weird to comprehend.

But, excellent recap of a new player with no knowledge at all in the first part of your post. I had to smile beningly.
For the rest: The PSA is well known for ppl in this subforum. It should reach players that are new to raids and you almost won’t find anyone here.

Reminds me of the same thing months ago with you, Amineo, when you joined the “exp with xx LI” (in LFG) group for Slothasor, you had 0 clue about the encounter and were kicked by the very helpful and lenient commander because you didn’t react to questions, failed mechanics several times without accepting help etc.

Amineo.8951:

Not gonna continue arguing with you guys, as if it was the group fault for having 15 tears spawn at an alarming rate when these were cleared constantly every time we went through the realm and outside…

And even if wing 4 is the easiest wing, why most pugs have trouble with Deimos then?

If you clear tears constantly you would never ever had more than 2 tears up at the same time unless you have very bad rng and they are spawning in blacks plus kiter hands and that’s more unrealistic as to win the lottery. Every random pug that is experienced with the deimos fight does not struggle any seconds due to tears.

And wing 4 still stays the easiest even if you consider Deimos being a harder one.
Cairn: Don’t get ported – Easy win.
MO: Take a necro for epi and the let the group dps the golem
Samarog: Dunno what to say but he is also no threat – mini of Teq ^^
For Deimos you’ll need a competent tank, a competent hand kiter and maybe a black kiter. The safe strat for pugs is just stand in the middle and range him to death.
Here a very unspectacular regular kill for the LI, it’s the chronos pov but you’ll notice the other players actions a lot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOOvj1_9N7w&feature=youtu.be

Wow, could be helpful to read a guide if you struggle more than 2 times at a boss and don’t see any chance to kill it.
Btw. wing 4 is by far the easiest of all wings.

Nah, not really.

It was way louder during dungeon peak time in addition to the “zerk meta”.

What is the purpose of this thread?

The things you are telling here are not new.

- LIs + many KPs are most often an indicator of raid experience but they are no guarantee for a safe kill. On the other hand the probability that a boss attempt will succeed is better in a group with a higher LI requirement. People who disagree have to go back and learn the mechanisms behind “probability”.

- Ingame voice chats are not needed because you can easily clear bosses without it and besides that you have the possibility to use TS, Discord, Skype etc.

Haven’t seen anti-raids or need-story-mode threads on reddit over a month btw. and I’m checking HoT and Top section every day.

Raids are not on par with dungeons but they are not that far away as your impression is.
All of the players that are breezing through raids had to learn and it was the same with dungeons pre-Hot aera. If you run them a couple of times you will wipe less and less and less since you just run through without even having a downstate.
It’s just a matter of learning and practice and I hold the line with saying you can easily clear Escort with your friends as long as one of you can skip the cave and get some others up with a portal.

And to the other point, yes you have to learn them and that’s ok because there is a group of players in this game that want to have such harder content. Hey, we also have PvP and WvW which are a special type of game not everybody is pleased to play. Just ignore raids then if you are not able to due to whatever reason is holding you off. Just don’t play it and disclaim.

jheryn.8390:

That is just in no way true. Anet built raids to be the most difficult content in the game. It isn’t guessing or speculating about it, that is literally why they were built to give elite players a platform.

And as far as players “not wanting to learn”, that is rubbish. Maybe not 100%. There are several people I know that can pull off dungeons. They have been taught and have tried, ad nauseum, to participate in raids. They have been through dozens of tries in the raids and they simply cannot pull it off. They want it bad, but by their own admission, cannot do it. Calling people ‘lazy and ’unwilling’ is not really understanding players who are not as skilled as you.

In what way they can pull of dungeons? Pressing key numero uno and getting carried by the rest of the 5-man-group?
Because I call it rubbish that a player who can run Arah without any problems will struggle at Escort, or Mursaat Overseer, Samarog, VG, Trio and Cairn.
Yesterday night we carried 4 ppl through Cairn and MO and they had 0 clue of those bosses before. Earlier we killed VG 3 new players with a short explanation only.

Of course raids are hard at the beginning but after a few weeks 8 out of 13 bosses are solid kills.

Just 2 things, Hildemar:

1. You don’t need to spend every free minute to succeed in raids, that’s for sure.

2. Compare Escort to Arah paths. I’m not the only one stating that on the one hand Escort is shorter than any dungeon path there in terms of time and on the other it’s much easier. Same goes for Mursaat Overseer.

Yup, mechanics first, second step optimize dps to an extent where you have to deal with only a few of them.

MerlinGamer.7410:

The raid team could be working on non raid stuff so the fact that there is a raid team does slow down other content releases.

Nah, that’s a wrong assumption.

Hjorje.9453:

Just because it is easy to us, doesn’t mean it isn’t difficult for others.

And that’s the key point for me. It hasn’t to be easy for others.

We almost had the exact situation this evening. 4.5k dps power ps with statement “Power PS is the highest dps class in the game.” Sad thing he wasn’t joking at all! We didn’t kick but carried him to get the kill. Afterwards he got some helpful hints and advice for the future because with that nescience and the low dps it is no doubt he will be kicked out of pug groups for a good reason.

The guides are there, the builds are there, training runs exist, guilds/groups are looking for new members but if you join random groups with his mentality…I don’t know, man…

Chun.5827:

I’ll be glad too. With a optimized DPS party. A T4 few boss examples: Old Tom, burst him down (skip the fan).

Uhm, I asked about severe mechanics that show a decent skill level. Not using the tears for consoles is not a such a mechanic. You don’t even need to burst Old Tom down. You could also outheal all incoming damage with a healer and still beat him.

Chun.5827:

Archdiviner, burst him down, only gets 0-2 big attacks off. Hammer to seal. Burst him down. Repeat.

Also a very very bad example. His mechanics are easy to avoid and dodge. Skilled players just shorten the time of the fight. They don’t skip anything they just do more dps so he dies faster. But if you look at the usual pug run with all players going full ham (= dps), he will get more than 2 attacks off and still beaten easily because those attacks are no threat. Funny thing is to fight the Archdiviner is getting harder the more unskilled players you have in your group due to going down all the time by not dodging properly and running away from the stack letting him port-smack.

Chun.5827:

Brazen Gladiator, melee stack and burn. He tries to do the AOE attack. CC, and DPS. Mesmer distorts party through boss attacks, to maximize DPS.

Again a wrong example. Just because there are some mesmers that are actually using skills to prevent attacks doesn’t mean that they are unskilled – the opposite is true. The common mesmer isn’t even able to distort all his attacks. So if you meet such a mes you are having a skilled one, not an unskilled player, lol.
And again, his mechanics are not oneshots or anything else.

In Dark Souls 3, SlaveKnight Gael
Skilled Player, who knows boss mechanics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0o_hRk6Y9E

Unskilled player, who uses DPS to overpower the boss (guy likes using clickbait titles)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zHga3uuv1M

I personally have done a Blood Level 4 run (no leveling) in Bloodborne. And a Soul Level 1 run in Dark Souls 3. Bosses kill you in 1-2 hits. Look up Bloodborne Waste of Skin and Dark Souls 3 SL1 run on youtube. Spoilers it took me 30 hrs to beat bloodborne, all bosses with a regular playthrough. It took 500 hrs on my Waste of Skin run.

Lol, those “examples”.
Sorry, but you mix different things together. While I won’t deny that there are lethal mechanics that can be skipped by dps in the other games you mentioned because I don’t play them you are wrong with GW2.
Following your logic you should never beat a boss in GW2 because a boss like the Archdiviner hasn’t done 1 million hammer attacks before you kill him. So, where is the limit? 5 hammer attacks, 10, 20, 30?

And like insanemaniac wrote: Go do a naked kill, no ui, no dodge lupi because that would be the exact comparison to your “examples”.
—-

To sum everything up:
Nice comparing apples to oranges.

Ryou.2398:

So you admit your only here for ego? Ok we are done talking here I did not bring it up I agreed he said it before me lol.

Wth? Ego, why?
I just asked you kindly to tell me those skipped mechanics because it could be possible that I haven’t realized any during my runs although they are there or maybe because I skip them in every run and therefore I don’t notice them.
And while he hasn’t shown up in this thread since but you picked up his claim and emphasized it I had the impression you could enlighten us.

Ryou.2398:

Why are you asking me when I was not the original person to claim this hmmmm? Oh you mean like those skills where you never ever go down in a fight because you cheese through the mechanics with pure dps gear and dodging?

Well, you brought this up:

Your right pure do does cheese ways through mechanics.

And I just want to know which (boss) mechanics/skills you are referring to that are cheesed through dps and are that lethal that we can actually talk about someone being more skilled because he has to deal with those mechanics.
Only skipping those would be real cheesing, for example not using updraft at Gorseval does not belong to such a mechanic because it takes more skill to bring random ppl dps-wise in line than to jump out, glide, use an updraft and glide back in.
Seriously I really don’t know which mechanics are meant although I call raids and fractals my living room in GW2.
If you can’t bring up some real severe mechanics that are skipped with dps and therefore can be called cheesing I have to suppose that you are completely wrong and tell fake facts to have an argument here.

Ryou.2398:

You raise a very good? pont, to me it sounds like people just get an ego boost off creating the meta like they get to decide what certain metas are . Your right pure do does cheese ways through mechanics.

Can you bring some very profound examples of cheesing mechanics due to dps besides dungeon bosses? (Keep in mind that those are trash as hell!)
And while you’re on it please bring up the real challenging and difficult mechanic you have to deal with if you lack on dps that aren’t there if the dps is high.
I would really like to see those mechanics that are either very hard to execute or show a greater skill level when dealing with them.

Entenkommando.5208:

I never die

See, and others, like me never die as necro without using blood magic plus we are able to get downed mates up.

Entenkommando.5208:

This makes things a lot more enjoyable for the group, even if we don’t have the highest dps. My nec is still more than sufficient in terms of dps and I’m playing a build I feel comfortable with which again makes for a better playing atmosphere.

Don’t get me wrong. I have nothing personally against running blood magic. But when you have a druid in your group there is no logical reason to run bm. Maybe your druid could be bad but then you should change this spot with another dps and then run your bm. Many ppl in GW2 don’t understand when their group comp and single build is wasted as hell and they need so many more minutes to clear content although it’s not needed. It’s ok to play like this but please let others play their style and don’t join those groups because both sides will become bad-tempered.

Entenkommando.5208:

My problem is when people are excluded because someone thinks everything has to be meta builds for the fastest clear while this may even be a huge hindrance with a non familiar group.
I’d guess that you can say anything up to at least +-5k dps in these benchmarks is non impactful due to unrealistic testing, personal rotations and possibly added convenience. Sure these benchmarks may be useful for people who know every little detail in mechanics and never make mistakes, like you seem to be, but this doesn’t even apply to a small percentage of players and even less when joining random groups.

Ppl exclude themselves when joining a group and not meeting the requirements of it. Just go ahead form your own group but don’t expect others to rule with you only because you say “It is working too even though we have less dps/less meta.” You have to accept that there are ppl that do not want this. And yeah, not everything is black or white: While I’m ok with a third healer on Matthias with unexperienced pugs I’m not ok with it on other bosses.
And to the point of making mistakes: You can still do a lot of them when running in meta gear and on the other hand there are also mistakes where it won’t help if you either have zerker gear or nomad. Need to mention I’m speaking about some specific raid encounters and not faceroll fractals!

Entenkommando.5208:

Math hardly applies in real world scenarios though. These builds are being min maxed all the way through, tested under unrealistic conditions on the dps golem with any possible buff that you likely won’t have a 100% uptime, with rotations that can and even more will never be applied by players in a real world scenario.

Nobody denies that the dps golem isn’t picturing a real combat scenario. There is a reason why those dps numbers & rotations are called “benchmark”. But it’s undeniable that the same player will have better numbers with character 1 (meta style) than character 2 (snowflake style) provided that he is able to play the mechanics and don’t just stupidly/blindly hit on the target.

Entenkommando.5208:

You can min max all the way you want but it’s a fact that normal dps is more than sufficient for any content and it makes a lot more sense to let people play a build they are more comfortable with rather than forcing them into unrealistic min max builds thex feel uncomfortable with.

First of all, define “normal dps”. I doubt that a celestial <insert class> is helping a lot for raids and fractals. Nobody claimed that the OP has to change his build or is playing wrong. If it’s okay for him to play his wanted content like this and he finds likeminded people he should go on but never ever expect others to take him with them so that he can be comfortable in his playstyle while the other 2-9 players have to compensate his missing effectiveness.

Entenkommando.5208:

A dead dps means no dps. If you are content with playing these kinds of builds then that’s fine but don’t apply this elitist logic that anything worse will cause more stress on the group or even cause them to fail just because someone wants to play a bit more comfortable.

Nobody ever in this thread applied elitist logic. And the argument of “a dead dps means no dps” is not logical here because if you know how to the dps won’t die. And additionally the opposite is true for some raid encounters: No dps means dead dps.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

You are kidding me, right?

What does 400 LI prove that 250 doesn’t in regard to relevant raid experience?

He didn’t wrote anything about 400 LI being superior to 250, he just explained how it works to ping the 400 in detail and added some more info how to prevent chat code & macro users from sneaking into a squad.

Ryou.2398:

It does not mean they are always the best, they are effective usually but far from perfect.

I don’t know to which builds you are referring to but I would assume that most of the people caring about min-maxing – which is the way of getting perfect builds – following qT and other proven builds in context with speedrunning. These builds don’t have to be perfect for you but they are in the objective manner because those players try to squeeze the best out of it therefore those builds are perfection in terms of mathematics.

Ryou.2398:

There are many ways for group dynamics in any mmorpg, just because you play with groups that are dps centric does not mean it is more effective, there are more ways to play then pure dps.

DPS groups that can execute given things are the effectiveness in person. Other ways than to play pure dps are less effective, of course possible but still inferior.

Ryou.2398:

And no one suggested throwing a random bad build, there is nothing special snowflake about picking defensive stats either, it is a playstyle lol, anyways people need to stop abusing the special snowflake comment this is proof you are with the meta mentality as this is a common opinion of people like that and love to throw around the term and not understand how to even use it correctly.

The given fact that you don’t need defensive stats to beat every stuff in this game thwarts everything you try to bring up here.

Ryou.2398:

And no it is not a fact but call it one all you like, you will never change my opinion on something as subjective as this.

I never had the intention to change your opinion. You can stay wrong here but it doesn’t change the fact that you are wrong. Simple as it is. ^^

Ryou.2398:

Again this is more then likely a mentality thing then a fact.

And not everyone wants to be squishy and not it has nothing to do with a safety net it has something to do with playstyle another reason is you do not want to rely on your teammates if something goes go bad, when your down in a fight that is still a dps loss.

Well, I started my first lvl 80 career on a toughness necromancer in 2013. After a short time of being in the game I realized that exactly this playstyle is boring to me. So my mentality was shifting to a way more faster but also more punishing style. This brought diversity, adaptation, learning encounters and improving reflexes. Sure, that’s not a thing for everyone but it’s what the game is for me. Is it a mentality, of course, a bad one, I doubt so. It’s a subjective perspective.
I personally don’t like to see someone finishing the last 10% of a boss lonely in 5 minutes while the other 90% has been made by 5 players in the same or less time and only because the one special snowflake runs a suboptimal build the group had to struggle way longer than it should have!
Nobody will condemn your build but if you are looking for groups to play with choose those who are ok with your build and please avoid meta groups. There’s a reason they are playing like this and you don’t.

Ryou.2398:

No it is not fact it is YOUR opinion.

You are wrong on this one here. It is a fact.

Ryou.2398:

Celestial is not defensive stats it is a jack of all trades stats set.

Jack of all trades, master of none!