Guild Wars 2

I have the feeling it’s lag on your part… I would assume if they actually tweaked the AI they would have mentioned it in patch notes

Full blown Sylvari cultural. Because I like the contrast of sentient plant being (life) being a necromancer (death.)

……

Also, the irony of Drahvienn here becoming a living weed-whacker entertains me…. Just, less than I like the contrast of life/death

Tman.6349:

Sorry for the negativity. I just don’t get it. Pretty sad that it’s now, arguably, better to take scepter in a power build instead of axe. :/

And this is why I switched. Even not counting condis, the scepter hits harder, even per second. Which… Is kinda sad. Buuut…. The scepter at least keeps with the look of a focus and staff

Because of this, I finally decided to stop using axe. Even though I have no additional condition damage currently, the scepter still hits harder that the axe with its aa. So.. RIP Necro axe

TheDevice.2751:

Yeah I have no idea why people are even theorycrafting at this point. Makes no sense and even less sense to try to compare or ultimately claim the reaper is one way or another… None of the balancing has been done. No numbers we’ve seen are a sure thing. Its impossible to tell how strong or weak any of these specializations are. The preview was just to display what it looks like so far lol.

I don’t understand why anyone would go so far to speculate or even think they know for certain how any of this is going to function in real play.

All that’s needed to theorycraft is an understanding of what a trait or ability is supposed to do and from there you can guess, with reasonable accuracy, how well a given combination will work. Besides, if we have some good educated guesses about trait and skill interactions ahead of time, it will make it easier to come up with solid builds when the elite spec does go live. Personally, as you may be able to tell, I see nothing wrong with trying to theorize new builds at this point

Bhawb.7408:

Minions will have a very strong way to deal with conditions, so AoE condi will be pretty mediocre, and remember we now get to go full BM support to heal minions while also giving them protection. Minion builds are about to get very, very tanky with an overall increase in damage to go with it.

I cannot emphasize enough how excited I am for this. We’ll actually get noticed for once. And maybe, just maybe, be a bit worrisome to opponents

The way I see it, the more they brag about how they’ll trounce us, the better it’ll be for us when further balancing is done. Their bravado now will, perhaps, work in our favor later and we won’t get nerfed. Or, at the very least, not as badly as if they were shaking in their boots already

The biggest reason to take Reaper for a minion master is for the melee AoE. When you’re fighting up front with your minions (as happens in any vs. Player type match) that heavy hitting sword will be nice. On top of that, life siphon is a good reason, as there is a minor in Blood magic that allows minions to siphon health for you. Vampiric is the minor name, I believe. So, for a hard-as-hell-to-kill minion build, Death, Blood and Reaper would be excellent

Bhawb, you’re my hero. All of that sounds excellent

I know we as a group are typically seen as even subpar by other necros (mostly because of inconsistent AI with our uglies) but I, for one, love the mechanic and having attacks and damage going out even when you get knocked down or stunned.

My questions are these: What do you like about the current MM set-up? And, other than AI, what do you think could be done with minions that could make them a bit more viable?

My thoughts on the second question: Cleave 3 for Flesh Golem, Cleave 2 for bone minions (so it’s worth keeping them out a bit longer,) Pierce for Bone Fiend and a mechanic sort of similar to Life Blast for the Blood Fiend (small explosive hits that damage and/or siphon health from two or three enemies.)

This is my plan
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQEuAN4Btg~

Extremely tanky minion build with high attrition. Planning on keeping Soldier gear and Dolyak runes to boost power even more. With the upcoming changes to Blood, it might become more interesting. And if, like it seemed in the stream, minions are getting some sort of buff, it will be quite a bit more potent. Flat dps, but it’s AoE with the GS and is augmented by minion damage

Bhawb.7408:

posthumecaver.6473:

Yeah, you walk slowly after you kill somebody, next time you came again in the range of your steal or one of your other teleports, or shortbow it does have again no effect isn’t?

When I try to kite a thief, chill does absolutely nothing for me, one button 10 m teleport, one more button another teleport

You ever see a thief try to heartseeker while chilled? You ever seen one try to backstab while chilled? Just because the thief can run away doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect them.

And, might I add, if the chilled thief disengages, you still technically win. No, you didn’t get the kill. But, you lived to face him later on in a different setting. Maybe one that isn’t as easy to get out of. He will have a hard time killing you in terms of damage. You’ll have a hard time killing him in terms of mobility. However, if he’s cornered, he’s done. The only substantialy simple way for him to kill you is if your abilities are already on cooldown and your health is a little on the lower side

If minions get an overall buff and tweak, I think they’d be very viable. Even right now, people seem to sort of, not forget, exactly, but not pay much attention to minions. Considering that you can still use minion skills when you get knocked down and through a number of other things like that, it’s not wise to just drop an AoE and then focus the necro. And with all the life siphon and chill that we’ll have almost makes it necessary to ignore the minions while they hit you from the back, otherwise you give the big bad reaper a chance to maul you with little worry of immediate retaliation.

Either way, I think that, in general, minions (whether bomber or master) will fit quite well with Reaper

Really, Consume Conditions is the only one that is suitable to replace Blood Fiend with. And, even on top of that…. I love my uglies too much to let them go without trying to make them work first

I’m gonna say blood fiend because of the Vampiric trait and healing through DS via siphons is a good idea. Especially if they decide to let his typical passive heal do its thing. Plus another minion for toughness and condi removal

kitten that was amazing. I think I showed my relative newness to the class there a bit by not really realizing that… Ahem. Oops lol

Vizardlorde.8243:

Vydahr.4285:

Nope. Gotta be able to 1vZ. Necro god of death. ultra op. Kills streams. Next we take down all the servers. Rulers of Tyria.

Its been done before in EoTM bridges… Spot zerg near a bridge + remain undetected + spectral wall = profit

I.. well… Hm. That’s something that I wish I had known. You know. Before the satirical statement getting after those who want just huge OP abilities and stuff and don’t care about balance.

In all seriousness, though, I do like the build potential as a Reaper Master, especially if they really do buff/improve the AI of minions

Harnel.6810:

Yeah, I don’t think “how Tanky is it vs a zerg?” is something we really have to put consideration into, given at that point it’s pretty screwed regardless :P

Nope. Gotta be able to 1vZ. Necro god of death. ultra op. Kills streams. Next we take down all the servers. Rulers of Tyria.

Hell, roaming in WvW wouldn’t be bad either. Yeah, we have little mobility. But, with a full escort of minions and heavy attacks and sustain, I’m guessing single or pair roamers will steer clear in large part, so we don’t have to worry too much. Except when you’re escorting a dolyak and meet a zerg on the way…….. That hurts. But at that point, not many can escape anyway

ChronoReaper – Meta of the future

I have hopes that, maybe, just maybe, when HoT comes out, Reapers Masters will be at least kiiind of in the meta. Certainly won’t be fun to fight, anyway

Permachill and minions (whether just meat shields or actual substantial support). Plus condi shedding. Plus AoE. Does not sound like a pleasant experience. Sounds like a bad time for anyone that tries to tackle you, even if a bunch of enemies go after you at once, you’ll give them plenty of hell before you get downed because of all that life and toughness which will set them up to be taken out by teammates. I can’t wait

The sigils I’ll use are probably going to be different to yours, and I like my Dolyak runes for great toughness and a nice vitality boost and a bit more regen (minimal, but still.) The only other changes I’d make is Transfusion instead of Vamp Prec (which you mentioned as an alternative) and Soul Eater and Deathly Chill instead of Decimate Defenses and Blighter’s Boon. Mostly that’s because I’m going to attempt a perma chill sigil set (or near to it) and that added siphon should stack with the Vampiric minor in Blood will add some nice healing, though still not a ton

Cogbyrn.7283:

I was bummed at first, then I saw Reaper Shroud’s #3, and I was less bummed.

kitten , Cogbyrn. You’ve been on point lately. Thumbs way up for you

This is Drahvienn, my Minion Master (sans minions in the pictures because we all know what they look like.)

Sylvari, as you may be able to tell by the Tier 3 cultural armor and weapon skins. The dyes I used are Shadow Green for main, as well as Midnight Green for secondary and Emerald for the accent color. He’s been through a lot of changes over the last several months, but I finally got his look how I want it. And now I just can’t wait for that beastly great sword to make an appearance

I’m not certain about the shouts in general though, including that one. I like minion sustain better than the jagged horrors. Unless, of course, they beef up the horrors or replace them in that shout. But, that being said, with these two traits doing their thing at the same time, I see a lot of potential in a GS minion build. Even without an AI rework, I think it’ll be at least semi-feasible.

If this is the case, Reaper and Blood will be a kitten good combination

Yes! True attrition! Ah, I do so love to see the light of hope go out of the eyes of opponents in the morning! (or night. or. you know. whenever.) I’ve always loved the out-live your opponent and wear down their desire to fight until you stomp them idea of necro. And now it’s really holding true (seemingly)

Cyninja.2954:

idontnoso.9850:

First off, I don’t want it to make it seem like I don’t appreciate the changes because I actually do. They fix a lot of issues that we have in PVE setting. That’s it. It doesn’t really do much in a PvP/WvW setting.

So based on the POI, I still believe necromancers are going to be overwhelmed in unbalanced fights (2v1, 3v1, 3v2, etc).

So now, in PvE, you can do a ton of damage, tank enemies, and even help allies by giving them life siphon. AWESOME! Cool….I guess. But that doesn’t help me out when I’m facing actual players.

Funny, I was thinking the exact opposite. The changes seem very interesting for spvp and wvw (especially roaming small scale or plain zvz aoe damage) and address very few of the necros problems in pve.

Necro already does a TON OF DAMAGE. Guess what they were and still are lacking? Group support and utility. Necro’s aren’t geting shunned by groups due to lacking damage(at least not groups of experianced players). They get shunned because they bring nothing to the table besides damage, which others bring as well along with utility and support.

Why should we support allies directly like that? That’s never been the necro (in GW2, anyway.) It seems to me, that, ideally, we’d be the ones charging in, maybe with a warrior or guard buddy, and having a back line of support/ranged dps. In that scenario, yeah, we’re being “carried” in terms of boons. But, we’re also drawing a ton of aggro and relieving pressure on squishier allies. I fail to see how that’s a significant problem.

It’s all about a different mindset. I know I don’t want necros to be the same as everyone else in terms of support. Some incidental support abilities wouldn’t be bad, but that is kind of a bad focus for a death themed class.

Supreme.3164:

I will remember this thread when the time comes, necro players will live to regret their disdainful words….what goes around..comes around. You say to have no problems with having powerful condis on auto-attack, you will come to regret this idea

Man, somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Besides, Necros kinda thrive on condis, to an extent. Especially a condi-shedding mm… Now with cleave. So the passive aggressive threat to all necros is kind of… Well. Impotent

Honestly, I’m thinking blood/death/reaper minion bunker. I play mm now, but I think a greatsword with aoe would add quite a lot to it. Plus, the siphon from all the minions going through deathshroud. I mean, hey, they want us to be unstoppable monsters, right? I think I’ll take them up on that offer

I’m gonna throw what I imagine is an unpopular opinion out there. Based on how well the blood and death magic synergize (minion heavy lines with pretty good DS traits) I think we might get something pertaining to those two.

Melee with a greatsword with minions in tow, popping in and out of DS to heal minions and use those skills, then popping out to gain protection for you and minions. Presumably also cleaving enemies with our fancy new greatsword. It seems to me like they’re going to make us into a legitimate one man army.

And I’ll be kitten ed if that wouldn’t give necros the class impact we’ve wanted for ages. Granted, AI could still use improvement, but even so, start slashing with a melee weapon out of range and those minions will most often charge in. So I think we could manage pretty well

Papish.5806:

I wouldn’t rule out anything we have. “Almost every elite specialization will gain access to a complete set of new skills: a single heal, four utility skills, and one elite skill.” quoted from their first couple blog posts on elite specializations. Which means we could be the profession that doesn’t get a new skill type.

Granted it could be a different profession, you just never know.

I’ve said this a few times myself. I think everyone here is just too focused on what the lowest tier skill set is because they think we’ll be most likely to get it. I still have the belief that we’ll get an upgrade to some current skill set. Some way to make it more impactful, though I wouldn’t know which skills would be effected

striker.3704:

Coffietire.2783:

What other traditional builds can be seen as drastically improved/unimproved that you can think of?

The power focused minion master build will be greatly improved by the up-coming changes as it allows party utility while also giving the necromancer access to more traits to buff himself up.

http://dulfy.net/2015/05/02/gw2-specialization-calculator-that_shaman/#profession=necromancer&traits=“Spite”,1,6,9-“Death Magic”,1,6,8-“Blood Magic”,2,6,8

-net gain spite line: axe training, spiteful spirit
Before you needed to use the master slot for training of the master, now that trait is merged into necromantic corruption, opening up the master slot for axe training. The new trait system gives you 3 GM traits instead of a max of 2, so taking spiteful spirit gives you access to more boon removal, AOE damage, and cripple.

-net loss spite line: none

-net gain death magic line: beyond the veil, *necromantic corruption
Beyond the veil gives you more survivability (at argueably the best time as well) and a way to increase your minions ability to survive on demand. This trait will be immensely helpful when you or your minions are the target of spike damage.

*Necromantic corruption is listed as a gain because it’s a combination of 3 traits into one (fetid consumption, old necromantic corruption, training of the master) all of which were good in their own right, and amazing together. Since those three were combined into this new trait, I won’t list any of them as losses for this build. Because you get a lot of boon removal from axe+focus, changing it from “removing a boon” to “transfer a condition” is a lot more beneficial as condition removal is sparse in the build without the staff.

-net loss: death nova, armored shroud
Before it was possible to take both training of the master and death nova, now you must choose one or the other. As a power based necro who is focused on bolstering his minions, death nova simply isn’t as useful. Especially since it now competes directly with the trait that now increases minion damage. Armored shroud isn’t a big loss when compared to what you gain from beyond the veil.

-net gain blood magic line: transfusion, unholy martyr
Now that vampiric minions has been merged into the minor master vampiric trait, the master slot has been opened up. This allows you to take transfusion giving you more party support and a way to heal minions on demand if you’re alone. now that you can take an additional GM trait, you can pick up unholy martyr. This gives you a way of staying in death shroud longer and a minor bit of party support (the 10% life force gain is more potent than removing a condition from an ally).

-net lose blood magic line: none

Seeing your build made me rather happy, actually. I’ve already looked at the trait builder, and the only difference I have from yours is that I chose 4 and 8 in Spite instead of 6 and 9 (4 for more boon denial, particularly under the health threshold when they’re going to be used to attempt to live, and 8 to add even more punishment under that same 50% health threshold.

As I minion master, I got really excited when I saw these new traits. I mean, hell, some party support, however minor (or minion support with the healing if you’re soloing) as well as condis being able to just about slide off my shoulders and boons being even more difficult for enemies to keep hold of. There’s great synergy between traits for MMs now as opposed to moderate synergy. I love it

ronpierce.2760:

Can someone direct me to the “excitement”?

This.

I just recently started playing PvP and WvW with my necro and, although I’m obviously unversed in the intricacies of the two, I find that with my bunker/power mm hybrid, I don’t have to worry too much unless I push too far in PvP or encounter 3 or more in either. I just have the survivability to make people back off unless they can rush me down. Either I take them out, or weaken them enough that they leave. And I have the feeling I’ll just learn more tricks and get better. We’ll see. Still, Necro is my main, and main it shall remain. Especially with the trait changes that will very positively affect my build (Condition shedding anyone?)

Guys. Guys. Almost all elite specs will get new skills. Like I said in my comment above, I don’t think we’re getting new skills. I think we’re getting our base skills improved. Hopefully in some flexible way. Not to fix the base, but augment it. And that’s still better than shouts or the other possibilities

“New Skills
Almost every elite specialization will gain access to a complete set of new skills”

Guys. Almost every elite spec will get new skills, presumably from the base game professions. To me, that means that a) We’ll get kittened over and just have the same old kitten, or b) It will be a traitline that actually makes the core necro class stronger.

The B option is what I’m hoping for, obviously. And, think about it. Necro has huge potential as a class. If they tweak the existing traits a bit more, that will make it so not everyone will take the elite spec. However, assuming it a trait line that involves melee skills, it would be excellent for those of us who like jumping right on our enemies and pester the living hell out of them.

My preference: Greatsword with cleave. Minions. Conditions roll off my shoulders. I chop people to little bits.

I know it is probably unrealistic, but gods kitten it. We need some hope. And I think expanding on our existing powers is the way it should go for us. kitten shouts and the rest of it. We’re not thieves to steal other skills. Necros are a selfish class, but we’re pretty self-sufficient. We should use our native strengths, not new mockeries of other professions’ abilities

Edit: A thought I just had is, what if some trait in the new elite spec (more than likely a GM) actually boosted whatever other trait lines we take. “All other traits/trait lines have their effects increased by X%/by X number value)”

We picked the “creepy” class and it spooks ’em

Now, this may have been brought up or may already be in the updated traits, but i feel like we need condi/boon transfer/removal type traits. Because, I mean, we don’t have any. Boons are supposed to be our playthings. For crying out loud, one of the masques you can choose in character creation is a trickster demon masque.

I think if we’re all honest, we like the idea of Necros being a dark demi-god that toy’s with the things that other classes see as stable and presumed to always be available.

(Note: I’m currently overtired and should sleep soon. So for now, I don’t have “Trickster” trait ideas, but I’ll get back to you guys, unless you beat me to the punch)

Tongue in cheek thought, here: Maybe Anet has just been waiting for us Necros to really wake up as a community and saying, “Wait a godkitten minute. We’re masters of death. Who do you think you are to try and bury us prematurely?” (I mean, you know. Other than being the devs)

Nah, we don’t need OP changes just to get them. If it happens while fixing the issues, no problem. Let’s just riot to get, you know, maybe a little love and affection from mommy dearest.

Well in that case. Might as well get started just sitting in Queensdale

Necro protest sounds like a plan. Buuuut, let’s wait and see if they tweak the new trait lines before flopping down to sleep in Queensdale :p

@ Zwets I think that feeling is because we have so much potential whereas other classes are pretty much at their top ability (in general.)

I know for myself, I love how much we can do if we choose to. Granted, we’re not as good at any one particular thing than other classes, but we can do what we want. I’ve seen healing builds, power builds and condi builds are common, I roll a minion master myself. And there are hybrid builds that are fun as well.

On top of that, I think being the underdog class isn’t inherently a bad thing, because people expect you to be terrible. But if you’ve worked on your skills and perfected them in the build you favor (as much as that can be done as a necro) you can be surprisingly potent.

I have yet to try the PvP or WvWvW, so I’m referring more to dungeon content and shocking people a bit with how well you do when nearly everyone else is down.

And I know one of my favorite things to do with my minions is go after champs. I don’t take them down quickly, obviously (decent power on my build, but no crit chance because I like being able to face roll) but to me, the “playing with your food” mentality is enjoyable. You know you’ll wear down your enemy. So you can enjoy it. In tough fights with multiple others helping, I’ve drawn all the aggro on a powerful enemy while someone else runs around and heals the two or three others that are downed. That sort of playstyle is fun for me, even if being the chew toy isn’t as great for others

(Note: I think people may be looking at the necro’s purpose a little wrong. Yeah, we can solo things decently, if slower. But we’re excellent at making enemies chase us even without taunt as an option yet. Our “party support” is “get up close and don’t die so the rest of us can burn the kitten” (Though, I could very well be wrong. That thought just makes me feel better))

I’ve seen quite a lot of jaded and bitter attitudes in the necro forum, and understandably so. However, there must be a reason(s) why all of us are still here and why we still like (possibly love, if you’re a sucker like me) the profession. So my question for every bitter old necro and every new practitioner of the dark arts is: What are positives about the necro?

My thought is, there’s just so much negativity and salt about the profession being neglected that, frankly, I’m not sure anyone wants to search through and find suggestions too often, because it’s frustrating and a bit depressing. Maybe some positives, maybe highlighting the good things that drew us here and keeps us here through everything, including general lack of fondness from other professions, will catch someone’s interest.

Either way, I’d love to hear everyone’s thoughts on what they like about the profession, what build they play most, etc

Works for me. Now, to see if Anet actually, you know…. Does anything about it

I can definitely see why UM would be helpful in the SR line. The major reason why, as an MM, I like it in Blood is because that line gives added survivability while DS is down. I think BtP and Vampiric have excellent synergy for that.

In terms of builds other than MM, it would definitely be better placed in SR, considering that line is pretty important for those others. As it stands, there’s very little synergy between SR and DM, whereas BM and DM work off each other.

Of course, I am biased because I love my minion master, but I think what it comes down to is balancing things a bit better. Switch Unholy Martyr to SR, but leave something that provides synergy with MM traits. Something that makes it so you are more connected to what your minions do, as currently there’s not a lot of feedback from the uglies. Something like, “Whenever you receive healing, your minions also receive it” and tack on another little something to make it a grand master trait, unless that’s OP as is, though I don’t think it is.

Note: The way I play MM and the way I think it should be played is up close and personal and aggroing as many enemies as you can so that allies can focus on DPS and not need to worry about dodging or using defensive skills, thus the reason I’d like to see more interplay between master and minions

I’m going to start off by admitting that I play an MM. That being said, I think there’s good synergy between Unholy Martyr and Necromantic Corruption. I can see conditions bouncing between you and your minions a bit before they get put on enemies. I agree there needs to be a better support options, but man, I’d be sad to see UM go into a trait line that doesn’t help MM. I mean, realistically, that particular build needs more love even than the class in general, even though it has great potential